Mercedes High Speed Cornering Nightmare Explained
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- Опубликовано: 10 мар 2024
- Mercedes just had a weekend to forget in the Jeddah GP. Lewis Hamilton was visibly annoyed with the car and the high speed cornering was no where. Lewis even goes on to say how the car was in a different category to its competitor McLaren. Toto Wolff gives an explanation and possible ways of fixing there fundamental problem.
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Lewis described it well when saying that the McLarens looked like a car in a different class or category when they were in sector 1. Visibly seeing it pull that massive gap was crazy.
Exactly the gap Lando made in two corners pretty much was worth half a second
It was evident. Oscar was right on Lewis's gearbox the whole time he was chasing him, and Lando was pulling away massively on the fast corners when Lewis was behind him.
Yes bro but Mercedes was faster without DRS from McLaren with DRS.
Fast corners are what McLaren is particularly good at though
The more wing you use, the more drag penalty a wing will create. The wing is not any kind of an answer unless you are removing rear wing because the floor is doing the work without creating that extra drag penalty.
I think there's a pretty simple way to put this. This simply isnt regs that Merc are good enough at. When they tackle one problem, another one appears. They're struggling to build a very good all around car from the looks of it
Agreed it isn’t there type of regulation by the looks of it
@@F1Unchained Does 2026 fit them then? Still ground effect
That hybrid engine covered a multitude of faults in their aero.
Remember how much they would chew through tires but Red Bull didn't? It didn't matter because they were still so fast, they could more than overcome the tire issue.
Toto even said at one point that they had so much extra in hand with the engine that they detuned it for a few years to avoid being BOP'd.
Each year they'd just unlock a little more power, knowing that's all they needed to stay ahead since they were MILES ahead (literally, when you lap the field into the top 10)
Now they don't have that advantage and these aero weaknesses are showing.
They probably only have the third best engine which also doesn't help
It's even more simple than this: Mercedes can't win any title because they do not have any backing from both Fia and F1 like they did when they entered f1 in early 2010s, they only won consecutive championships thanks to the Fia letting them know the 2014 regulations first-hand 2 years before the others could
The way Lando could just walk away from Lewis in the high speed corners was quite impressive.
The Red Bull was clocking 33 KMH advantage with DRS. That’s crazy
It was insane
I thought I was see doubles.
Very reminiscent of silverstone 23’ after the restart.
Reading the comments I’m glad someone brought up how Mercedes aero has been poor compared to their rivals in years past. This is very concerning I said this after the Bahrain GP they still can’t find the sweet spot of the car, now they’re saying again their sim data isn’t correlating to actual data. Do I think they will get these regs right, NO emphatically NO it’s been 2+ years now, now they are even further away. Now we have to wait until they unlock this “potential”.
Right will have to see
Still think the rake is an issue for them.. They aint been the same since they had to raise it..
Engineer here. A small note about aero configurations: usually what you do is decide the level of downforce you want in the car (selecting the rear wing) and then you adjust the front and rear wing flaps to get the desired aero balance. However, the rear wings are also the draggiest elements of any racecar. Therefore, if you have a drag target (look up re-drag and re-balance polars), then you will select a lower downforce rear wing even though it's sub-optimal. A side issue caused by a low drag rear wing is that to keep the desired balance, you will need to also lower the inclination of the front flaps (losing downforce on the front wing). Overall, if you have a strong drag target, you might end up with extremely compromised downforce, which is what i think happened here.
Lovely explanation
Wow thats a good insight 👏
And also i think they can’t get a stable
flow of air under the car.The are with anti-squad suspension in the back as we know but it seems the downforce is more than they think because the car is baucing . That means that the car hits the ground and the downforce is lost for a moment then its repeating. And that what hamilton said on the interview . when the car is bouncing the balance shifts forwards and backwards
Fire
Exactly. You remove downforce, you gain tyre deg and lose corner speed. In Jeddah, it seems that Merc prefered straight line speed than stability because tyre deg was so low, so they had a less draggy and less stable car. IMO that's why Hamilton kept Piastri behind for some many laps.
This problem goes back further i remember in 2020 Totto saying red bull were offering huge contracts to quite a few number of mercs design team, i dont think merc have replaced those people well. They fundamentally can not get to grips with these ground affect cars, seeing the mclaren pull away from the merc like that was really startling to see just what the hell is going on at brackley
I like it when you compare and contrasts the strengths and weaknesses of the cars on the grid and then explain how that forces the teams and drivers to adapt their strategy. a video like this explains how alonso beat both mercedes with a slower car, highlights how mclaren's car concept gives them a top speed deficit that makes them unable to fight ferrari and overtake, and how despite the mercedes strategy blunder for norris and hamilton- none of the Rb's, Alex's Williams, Zhou's Sauber, and Nico Hulk's Haas couldn't get any higher then 9th
Lovely comment my friend 😁❤️
My take in MB situation is the brain drain and the resulting knee-jerk responding rather than actually "keeping" people and building a team at the factory rather than "departments". The importance of having a team integrating to a common goal rather than departments "seemingly" integrating (but actually staying each in their pigeon holes) is the root of this issue - it is being inefficiently executed. Allison has identified this, just not seemig to action this concept. Elliot had departments and this is his style. MB is expanding its factory, and expansion requires far greater mechanisms to integrate so the knee-jerk reaction is to departmentalise. I am also not convinced that their design platform is an open one in the absence of having a Newey type all seeing eye. Get the R&D sorted and the holistic integration of the rest of the crew into a proper team and I think all these issues will be resolved.
A lot of good points my friend
Very well said
One must keep i mind that the World Championship winning Mercedes of the past were nothing more than a development of the 2009 Title Winning brawn GP car. Over the years that chassis got developed to its maximum. Mercedes Engineers knew that car inside out and were able to develop it since it responded well to most if not all of the changes and development thrown at it. Even towards the end of its development that car was not at the top and Hamilton was able to bring 2 World Titles as he struggled with that car and Hamilton's talent is probably the only attributable reason for his last World Driver's Title.
Perhaps Mercedes is suffering from the fact that all of their historical data does not translate well to the present car, talks of simulator data not correlating to the on track handling of the car, as they stated and now in year 3 the accumulated data has been analyzed made sense of. Unfortunately at best all that one can expect is minute improvements weekend per weekend as the season progresses.
There is sadly no hope for Mercedes in these regulations. This should've been the year they hit the ground running with a very good car that they would just keep adding performance. However, once again they have correlation issues, aero/mechanical problems to address while other teams have good platforms to improve upon like Aston, Mclaren and Ferrari. They better focus on a monster of an engine for 2026and hope the chassis regulations change in their favour.
Getting outperformed by teams that buy your parts and do a better job with them is beyond embarrassing.
Max Verstappen would rather go to Mclaren or Aston Martin if leaving Redbull than joining this lost team.
Unfortunatley, Mercedes complained and made the FIA make early development for 26 illegal. So they cant develop early, theyve lost several senior staff over the last few years, and are being led by Toto (who is a buisnessman) and Osama Bin Russel
I believe Max will fix this with his rotation
6:17 During the race when Piastri and Lewis were battling, I followed a lap on both of their onboards to see what each driver was doing, and what I saw brought me to the verge of tears. There were 3-4 corners in S1 where Lewis was having to lift and everyone else was going flat out. Seeing that genuinely almost made me cry cuz, wtf is he supposed to do now after Merc left him out to dry with a car that was the slowest for a third of the lap. I was watching that man drive his Heart out, and not be able to advance cuz his car was an absolute disaster. This is what it’s gonna be like for the rest of the year. Another year wasted, and Lewis doesn’t have many years left to waste. Honestly the only reason why I’m considering renewing my F1TV subscription is for the F2 races and F1Academy
Yeah it was painful seeing him go through certain corners
Big ups on the quality content brother, your really taking off and I can’t wait to see the top of the mountain with you.
Will be happy to have you along with me my friend ❤️😁
George Russell in Jedda FP2 “Car is so unstable high speed , so so unstable high speed”
Forgot about when he said that as well
George better start speaking up against these things, the clock keeps ticking against his quest to become a WC. I think he often forgets that his real competition is Max Verstappen not Lewis.
@@ckr5694i cant remember when george fought lewis other then when LH44 lets go team cry babies makes him look worse and alway makes it his fault even in qatar
@@ckr5694 That's the problem with Russel, he cares too much about finishing ahead of Lewis, so, for now there wont be any major complaints about what really matters from him. He will be a lot more vocal on those problems when Lewis starts outpacing him in Quali too. Overall I think that's the main problem with Mercedes too as of now everyone kind of going at different wavelengths and its just too much minor differences that wont benefit the team and hindering them from performing like a team should. No wonder they keep having problems with correlation in their simulators to real world, the team itself is not corelating. When most other teams can tell how good they'll be at a track based on their simulations, Mercedes seems to be using results from previous races(which is not too accurate as their cars change year by year and it really needs to be based on the pace of their current cars) and just feels like a guessing game for them. Think back to how they got Brazil wrong last year. Mercedes needs an internal cleanup overall not just with their simulations. Because neither drivers, simulations/simulators, different staff departments(aero-manufacture-Power unit) seems to correlate. They only thing the seem to all can agree on is that the car is rubbish at the moment.
So proud to be this guys 9th subscriber og for life great video
That means a lot to me my friend ❤️ thank you for being around and giving me a chance :)
@@F1Unchained why everyone deserves a chance look where it could take us me almost professional tennis player and you gonna be boomin by 2025 callin it keep gridnin
I think it's air density-related. During the day when it's warmer and the air is less dense, they seem to be happy. At night, it goes to poo.
Might be a slight problem in a car with a lot of issues
Thank you for making the video that i asked for yesterday, you are the best f1 analyst on youtube rn . ❤
❤️❤️ thank you my friend
Thanks for the video about this! Congrats on the 25k! Also subscribed to support you, the effort and time you put in these videos is so much appreciated
Thank you so much Jaimie ❤️❤️. You are always around and I won’t forget that :)
other F1 channels aren't covering these topics. Really good work!
Always trying to give you guys what you want 😁❤️
Absolutely agree, others becoming f1 Kardashians
Love your channel , you actuality have intelligent conversation dealing with solving problems with different teams . Good job❤ 👍🏾 .
Always my friend ❤️
It's very depressing to see that the Mercedes team is still struggling 'on track', .... and ...... with no end in sight,' as they used to be the team to beat.
Ever since GR joined the Mercedes team, they have not been able to sort the car's problem out as GR is not capable of helping them. After 2 years, the Mercedes team is the only team who forces their drivers to live with porpoising.
To hear GR brag about the fact that, last season, he deliberately broke F1 rules, by over taking slower cars 'off track', as the F1 5 second penalty was a joke, shows just how much respect he has for F1 racing rules.
I genuinely think you could reach 50k subs by this year if you keep up this level of quality and such detailed insight. I wish you the very best. ❤
That’s my goal for the year so hopefully my friend ❤️
The scary thing for Mercedes is yes its new regs and PU for 2026, however the ground effect design remains exactly as is, if they cant get a race winning car by 2025 they will likely not win in the new regulations. Being the only team who raced low rake cars in the previous regs, ground effect regs would always be an issue.
It will definitely hinder them but it will still be a brand new concept of car for everyone
Mercedes loss in time in sector one was astonishing. Seemed like they could make up the difference by the end of the lap but just killed any progress they made.
Agreed
Great Balanced analysis. I'm stunned that Merc cannot get the W15 right after claiming how much they have learned from the W13 and 14. Maybe they will be better in 2026, but I think they're doomed under the current regulations.😬😬😬😬😬
In preseason testing they SPECIFICALLY said the track test finally correlated to the sim. And they have a car they can build on because they know how to relate.
They weirdly remind me of 2018 Red Bull. Where you can see the potential and they have great drivers but something holding them back just enough. But Red Bulls strength was their aero and weakness was the engine so opposite reasons.
Very good comparison
Im surprised with how the Ferrari car is performing, especially on tires. To set the fastest lap on 30+ laps old hards is impressive.
They will be fighting Red Bull soon
We have to consider one thing that ferrari was not fighting anyone in saudi so I guess tyres were in good shape... still we should appreciate ferrari for doing a great job on tyre wear
@@darshang1262 the second Ferrari from a debut drive was in front of Merc and McLaren 2nd cars. So I think it is a solid indicator
@@F1Unchained yeah but redbull is expected to bring upgrades that will give them more pace 😐 and guess they will be gone before ferrari catches them
Max had cold tyres cos he had to pass back markers. That made it more important to simply bring it home in stead of a last lap dash. And Ferrari/Charles NEEDS all points they can get this season.
Man you always deliver the goods. TOP NOTCH VIDEOS AND CONTENT! Your channel is pure information and none of the other drama in F1. Always unbiased just facts. I think the W15 is at its limits now. Not much can be done without redesigning the car. Not sure if any upgrades they have in store will help.
Thank you my friend 😁❤️ I try to keep it as entertaining as possible. I think they can fix the issue but I have way less hope then before e
great video!
Always here to support you Mr. Unchained
Glad to have you around my friend ❤️
I think, the main trick is to choose best height of the floor channel. According to Bernoulli, narrower is the channel, lower is the static pressure, thus higher downforce. But due to drag, on high speeds narrow channel will "lock up", not letting enough air through, causing drag and at the same time bouncing will be much more prominent as any disturbance and bump will vary the downforce significantly. At this point RedBull cars have larger channels and lower downforce for slow corners, but much less bouncing and less drag during high speed. This is some basic stuff which is calculated according track configurations and aero data, so I can't imagine teams have not figured it out yet properly. Need to say this was the case during last season, as Monaco floor parade revealed the above mentioned.
The problem with the Mercedes is not the rear wing but the floor they tried a high downforce wing in practice and it didn’t cure the problem.A rear wing has a downforce to drag ratio of 3 while a floor has 11 this means you get a lot more drag for less downforce,the problem comes from how the centre of pressure is manipulated dynamically .
The problem of Mercedes is the cost cap. They were used to develop a car with unlimited funds. It seems their staff isn't capable to deliver a competitive car with limited budget and wind tunnel time
very true but also understand a team like mercedes really has no excuses to be made for them . cost cap or not, they simply were spoiled with success and now that the grid got tighter outside of red bull, they look sloppy and cant compete against the teams that carry their PU. this is also coming from a mercedes fan
As always good analysis from you. I was thinking other day. Ground effect cars have more oversteer and snappy rear. I feel like Mercedes are trying to make more understeer car for Hamilton and struggling to make rear stable. Which also affects high speed corners. Hamilton will mostly complain about snappy rear and oversteer if he sits in RB20. Ground effect regulations are for Max. Max is the main reason Redbull are so dominant in this regulations. Only Alonso can be that good in that RB20/19. Coming from a Hamilton fan myself.
I do think them trying to appeal to Hamilton could lose a slight bit of performance. The bigger issues was sticking with a bad concept for so long
It also shows why Alonso is so good with Aston. You build a car for oversteer then ground effect will benefit you. But when you try to make it more understeer you reduce those benefits from ground effect
That's the problem with Russel, he cares too much about finishing ahead of Lewis, so, for now there wont be any major complaints about what really matters from him. He will be a lot more vocal on those problems when Lewis starts outpacing him in Quali too. Overall I think that's the main problem with Mercedes too as of now everyone kind of going at different wavelengths and its just too much minor differences that wont benefit the team and hindering them from performing like a team should. No wonder they keep having problems with correlation in their simulators to real world, the team itself is not corelating. When most other teams can tell how good they'll be at a track based on their simulations, Mercedes seems to be using results from previous races(which is not too accurate as their cars change year by year and it really needs to be based on the pace of their current cars) and just feels like a guessing game for them. Think back to how they got Brazil wrong last year. Mercedes needs an internal cleanup overall not just with their simulations. Because neither drivers, simulations/simulators, different staff departments(aero-manufacture-Power unit) seems to correlate. They only thing the seem to all can agree on is that the car is rubbish at the moment.
They will sort it out in time but they are indeed not getting the grip of the groudn effect era.atleast now top speed is good its just fast corner speed and stability
As has been pointed out, they went down the wrong path for 2 years and to some degree have to learn what the other teams have figured out for 2 years.
Well, Allison said after the winter, that they didnt have the budget and time to make all the changes they wanted to, over the winter..
it would Come in upgrades over the season..
Yes but when other cars have started off from a much higher place and won't sit still there less likely to catch them they will need to be McLaren 2023 level of upgrades to catch them if it's even possible they said they have a good base but I'm not so sure being that slow in the high speeds still seems like a fundamental problem with the car that can't be fully fixed mid season
It’s probably one part of there problems but it’s a bad excuse when you’re a top team and dominated for over 7+ years. It’s also been a problem for three years straight
Yet George said they still don’t understand what the issue truly is
@@F1UnchainedThis shows that Mercedes were never a true top team. Only when they could spend significantly more than anyone else they were dominant.
@@barcafan94and you are conveniently ignoring the type of regulations we are in
The worst part for them is that they do not really know what is causing the issue and how to fix it. So no, I do not see Mercedes fighting for the championship. For now they are fighting with Aston Martin and McClaren, and Ferrari and Red Bull are too fast. Toto needs to build a better car.
Great Video ❤
❤️❤️😁
One-Hit-Wonder Mercedes (yea yea, 8 consecutive, but it was 7 years with stable rules + OP engine (as you can see nowadays, impossible to catch up)) is back to earth
So low downforce track you add a big rear wing to push the back end down , does that then lift the front and give bouncing and instability?
Personal opinion: the best cars are the ones that have the least amount of extreme solutions because that correlates woth a stable car to work on and to implement new evolutions on.
Agreed I was thinking the same
Unfortunately the Mercedes design was still born from day one. Their only consolation at this point is that they have been able to successfully correlate the data and pinpoint the issues and are working at resolving them one by one. Having the option best course of action would be to scrap the chassis altogether an build a new one, unfortunately time constraints and budget caps make this prohibitive.
The success of the RBR is not only the aero package but the stance of the chassis which is attributable to the chassis / suspension design. The stance and anti squat characteristics of the RBR allow for the aero package to work more efficiently than the other cars on the track.
Mercedes allowing for different mounting points on the front suspension is an indication of getting the stance of the car to work efficiently so that the car responds to the different aero packages and changes in a positive way hence gaining the grip they are lacking. Then giving the drivers the felling and responsiveness they are lacking. Hamilton in particular.
Unfortunately the Mercedes will never be a World Title contender
important correlation with the aston.
Jeddah 2024 reminds me of Sao Paulo 2023, where mercs were good in sector 2(technical sector) but supremely slow in sector 1&3(straight line sector), and it feels like from then they have done a total 180 where they are good in straight line souch so that McLaren were not even catching them in straight line even with drs as the tires went old, but the mercs being so slow that Norris was able to pull away 4 tenths in sector only. Something has gone wrong with the mercs where they have lost all the cornering speed but have got good straight line speed.
It’s as if their fluid dynamics software was updated 3’years ago and there’s an error in there that hasn’t been caught at the engineering level because it’s a software error
F1Unchained the No1 F1 channel on youtube
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the fact they are still bouncing and messing around with changeable suspensions tempts me to think Merc don't understand their main issues. Not that they don't know in principle but the intricacies of mechanical and aero. Fingers crossed they do start to figure it out.
When they find the fundamental problem, and I believe they will, then they will probably be saying “oh gosh wish we had known this 2 years ago”. Maybe the W13 and W14 were actually much better than we believed and were just having the same fundamental problem. The reason I believe they will find the root cause is by elimination and they will probably also get new recruits with experience from other teams. They have two seasons to fix it. It’s going to be interesting to see when the penny drops. Greetings from Denmark
they shouldve probably continued evolving the w14.. fix the driver seat position (if that really was the problem, ham said it was, george said it wasnt).. fix the upright tank to horizontal ( iheard they did that for packaging in the zero pod era but it raises the gravity point).. so yea, the w14 non zero pod edition was still coping with zero pod design features in terms of chassis and packaging of components. Above my paygrade obv but from the outside looking in evolving the non zero pod w14 and throwing out the zero pod elements that were still hampering it couldve been a fine choice. instead they went (imo) really vanilla with this years car.. like starting over...that can almost never be a good thing when RB is 3 years ahead.
Yes but you must be quick everywhere at anytime
I can’t tell what I enjoy more, your videos or the comments. Everyone brings their A-game to this channel.
Thank you my friend and I love the people surrounding this channel so much. The best community
When you really think about it there are way too many factors that are holding them back: brain drain, never grasped the regs at first, then took to long to realize it. Excuse making. software issues? that sounds sus. They can hope for 2026, but these will STILL be ground effect cars. lets not forget that. really happy to support the channel!
True you make a good point with there being so many factors. I truly think there just lost now. Thank you brotha for doing that it means a lot ❤️
Even when hamitlon had changed to the higher downforce rear wing, he was struggling with the rear end. So it was high-speed cornering regardless of the downforce levels. Yes it might less bouncy with a medium to high doenfirce rear wing but its still a problem with the car regardless of wing level.
I pretty much think without an unlimited budget Mercedes can’t perform to our expectations. In 2017 and 2018 midway through the season Mercedes changed the whole chassis suspension mid season just shows that the true talent was spending money
Very possible
Ferrari and Redbull had a big budget too and they couldn't beat Mercedes ... so it wasn't just about spending money !
@@pilituraa6548 yes it was, Mercedes spent tens of millions more than Ferrari and rb per season before the cost cap.
who stopped Ferrari from spending more than Mercedes ? @@ihavewaited90daystochangem51
@@ihavewaited90daystochangem51There were some seasons Ferrari and RB spent more.
Oh hey, new f1unchained video:)
😁❤️
The W15 was slower than last years W14 and slower than the Williams with the W14 rear suspension. This just tells me Mercedes haven’t yet understood the W15 yet and how to properly set it up. We saw how rapid this car can be and once they nail their understanding they will be flying trust me. Rumours say they have found the issue and are confident they will have it fixed for Melbourne 💪
They will be better in Melbourne and I hope they trike improve
😂 they say that each week. But the car simply never consistent…not 1 session to the next
@@Redlingstein talking shite about the team doesn't do anyone any good. I'd rather be positive about the situation rather than talk shite in my opinion
I'm sick of it - 3 years it's boring now
This year is clearly done, Mercedes switching to a new design means that for the first 5-10 races they have to fix problems instead of improving. Will they get as fast or faster than Ferrari and McLaren sometime this season? Probably yes, but they have to hope the others don't get that far away in the meantime. As for RedBull, they need F0...
They will never be faster than Ferrari but will challenge mclaren for the 3rd/4th spot in the wcc
I think Mercedes will do better on other tracks this year, they could also do with more Engine power to catch with RB. In 2025, more active aero will help cars adapt to differing aero requirements sector by sector on tracks. On track practise sessions with different setups will produce better data results than with simulations, so they ought to do more on track testing where possible to optimize setup.
I think they lost their best engineers to RBR and other teams. Remember when RBR grabbed the engineers from Merc., then Merce's problems started.
Great analysis, I think this will be Mercedes problem through the season, they will be probably competitive on high downforce races like Hungary Imola Spain Singapore Monaco, but tracks like Jeddah Monza Spa .. complete trash
It’s quite clear that they have fallen back of 2 year la development. Yes this is a new learning kerb for Mercedes. but I for one am very sure they still won’t be able to resolve their issues because the new regulations don’t suite their R&D.
We just have to accept that they will finish in the middle pecking order, and hopefully it will be a new fresh start for Hamilton.
Toto said he think theres a isue with the data from the sim.. that the simulator is set up wrong.. (Something, that I think many of us have thought about the last couple of years) I Hope they can get it right..
I’ve seen him say multiple different things on that sim. As I said they fired people due to it then said they fixed it and now its an issue again. I really hope they fix there issue
Haha they said that in 2022 too… but the truth is they don’t understand these ground effect cars, thus not understanding WHAT to change in race weekends on set up.
@@F1Unchained yep, it would make the season a bit more fun if they could find some performance 👍 Bit lets see..
I think honestly at this point it doesn't matter anymore. Even if they figured it out throughout the season they'd be still way behind RB and likely behind Ferrari as well. Too late too little. Also if James Ellison can't figure it out over the entire last year, I have little confidence they'll be able to figure it out any time soon.
I just read about their sensors in their simulators. Could that have been the reason for the previous seasons?
Yes absolutely
the car is struggling in high speed corners because they use a lot more wing than the other teams... that's a drivers problem in part, because their drivers can't cope with less rear wing.
Give that car to Verstappen someone who can cope with less downforce in the rear end of the car and you will see, Max can be 1 second faster than Lewis or George on that Mercedes.
This is somewhat true. While they do use more wing it’s because the car dosent generate the downforce the simulations say they do. Max does driver a car on a ridiculous knifes edge but the rear end of the RB20 is insane.
i think i heard Russell mentioned about bouncing, but not sure in which session though
how does lewis know what the limit is if he never lost the rear this season
as always great analysis my friend, Mercedes seem absolutely lost with aero development. much love
Thank you my friend ❤️
I think Merc will improve a bit as the season rolls on, but so will others. Might be a wash. Sometimes I wonder if they're focusing their resources on the next regs and taking this season and the next with a "take what we can get" mentality. And maybe Lewis was like, "yeah, naw. I need a competitive car now, bye".
Lewis is more vocal because he’s driven championship winning cars so he knows what to expect, George has driven 3 bad Mercedes cars which are better than what he’s used to driving so it’s still a step up for him.
A fourth place in the constructors championship this season is think. It’s got to be the floor that’s the problem
I just think it’s the base of there cars every year
I think Mercedes should’ve stuck with the zero pods. They might not have been fast originally with them but it was still a race winning car. Even red bull are showing they were onto something. Problem is, through pressure of not performing they felt they had to follow red bulls concept and started changing the their car. Despite being a year behind the other teams that started with similar concepts. Now they’ve fallen even further back, behind ferrari, and even mclaren. They’ve tried to run before they can walk, they expected to copy red bull and be championship contenders again, when they should’ve stuck with what they had and built from it, slowly making their car competitive and learning more about their concept. Now they’re always gonna be chasing red bulls concept and never surpassing them
Not sure where the problem between sim and actual car lies, is it a software issue or they arent reading/understanding the data properly. In any case I wouldnt write them off just yet, we've seen how teams in the past can make huge jumps inseason like McLaren last year for instance.
The McLaren part is true as well
McLaren didn’t jump mid season last season…. They had NO development in winter and that winter development simply took its time to June..it was actually a delayed winter development they brought to Austria …. Ppl call it mid season, but it wasn’t. It was the delayed winter development
It seems like MB has a serious issue with their simulation software. The other teams were able to compensate for the new, ground effect cars, but MB was not. They were spot of in the previous era, but you can see that the engineers are genuinely stumped as to why their car's performance doesn't match expectations. I think they really need to focus on getting the simulations correct, then design the car. In the past, they could just spend their way out of this hole, but the cost cap makes any errors very difficult to overcome.
In The End Better Engine Wins....Aero Helps But Engine Is The Key!!
You can clearly see that the mercedes sits on the back in a way that communicates they need a softer suspension or that stiffness is not even. Ferrari clearly is very even in suspension set up and "bottoms flat" while mercs "sit down".
True. It’s probably because there numbers aren’t correlating in the sim, so they keep testing different right heights and suspension set ups
@@F1Unchained I heard that so many times in last 2 years in Ferrari XD. To me it all boils down to the sidepods undercut paired with the compression of air: if you notice, the most performing cars have the underbelly of the sidepods just after the exit of the strakes of the underfloor. So we get that air shield on the side of the car that protects both rear wheels(in part) and a clean flow in the downwash area. Merc does not have that compression and their floor is not protected. Hence all unpredictability. You can clearly see that on the videos of RB in the rain. Water stream off the floor sides and the air that pushes out like a shield from the sidepods. I would even argue that that air from the floor is possibly, thanks to that shield, like a giant vortex that ends up on top of the back of the car down washing in the last third of the car. But I'm speculating wildly here and I'm not aero expert.
@@Ilethsamael what a great observation. Just had a look myself and you're spot on. Not only that they have a more open section through out the whole undercut probably causing more likehood of spillage coupled with the floor strakes not positioned to protect the airflow like you pointed out. Rather than the reduced area like the others that possibly increases the level of downforce at the cars centre point, I can see why Hamilton was saying how their direction still is different from the others up front.
@@jayb8941 the biggest point imo is that RB traded pure performance at the beginning of this era for extreme aero reliability. Ferrari and Mercedes looked for peak performance but the downsides were so massive they could not deal with interference from environment. Ferrari was dealing with that through a flexible floor but it got banned quickly.
@@Ilethsamael scary to think about the performance upgrades they have in store for the European season, that has been reported to be visually drastically different. Adrian and his team have completed a master piece of a project in these regs, and that's coming from a Merc fan.
I really just watch the races and dont keep up with much outside of the race broadcasts. While watching Jeddah I was like "Oh shit Lewis is about to catch Norris..... holy shit Norris just walked away from him in the blink of an eye!" which made me realize that yeah, Merc is having some cornering issues for sure.
I just wanted to say “Thank you”. Thank you for talking about the important things “We” F1 fans want to hear about: RACING! And everything it has to do about it. Not the DRAMA everybody’s covering now. Just yesterday I unsubscribed from about 5 channels just because they were only talking about the DRAMA and not about the RACING part of F1. So, Thank you again 🙏🏼
Always my friend ❤️
The concerning thing for Hamilton is that rear instability is something he used to adapt extremely well to and in fact a lot of the times where he left his teammates for dead were when he fared with this far better. The fact that a lot of things like this aren’t coming as naturally to him now are a sign of decline. Still a great driver but every dog us his day
This crossed my mind too though I hope it ain't so yet.
Especially embarrassing considering this new suspension and rear end is also on the Aston, and they have improved their high speed cornering from last year, what are Mercedes doing? Can't even blame the wind tunnel as Aston use that as well? I don't get it lol
Listen to Pierre Wache, RBR TD podcast on The Race. He said that their simulation correlation was between 99-100. They keep on pushing to improve their simulation tools to make it run faster since they have the least running time. They never stop working. Mercedes must’ve been doing something wrong with their testing.
9:20 My thoughts are, Mercedes have broken my heart. This race was the last chance I was giving F1, and it honestly failed, but I’m still gonna renew my F1TV subscription cuz I’ve gotten invested in F2 and F1Academy.
Babe wake up, there's a new unchained
😁❤️❤️
Homie got that shirt right out of the box, looks crisp asf
😁
Until they really fix the floor the problems will continue. The car bounces because it creates too much down force at high speeds, causing the car to lose it's momentum. I doubt that they can fix the high speed problems without a major redesign. With the cost cap I don't think they can fix it. They got the physics wrong.
Love the detail explanation. I’m Glad Lewis is leaving.
It just shows how far Mercedes has fallen
@@F1Unchained yes indeed
Mercedes really f’d up man. They need to get it together asap
MB’s new rear wing did not translate from CFD to the car. Not that complicated
This issue with the rear looks like another one that cant ne fixed in season.......😢
Very interesting to see Russell able to extract more out of the Merc than Lewis.
I think honestly the team reached their limit. They can't evolve to the next level. Is time to hire the right person from aero to simulation.
It’s possible
Is a little bit frustrating seeing mercedes not getting right.
I find it very hard to believe they’ll understand ground effect era, it’s been 2+ years and they still don’t understand it, red bull understood it from the get go, surely you can’t expect a team to catch and match them that are over 2 years behind in understanding these cars!
So, they sacked Elliot, and brought back Allison, and still have the same issues, correlation. In at least the last few years of the Merc era, it was always said that Merc were aerodynamically weak compared to RBR, and the difference was the engine. Seems to me that they have a fundamental aero development flaw which has existed since well before the reg change.
With Mercedes having such a dominant engine for so long, aero became secondary, as with pit stop times and race strategy. These weaknesses are now showing. Ground effect is here to stay.
McLaren, Williams and Racing point had Mercedes engine too. If it was engine alone, then these teams could have winning multiple races. And F1 changed regulations 3 times during Mercedes domination. F1 is always engine and Aero efficiency. James Allison is expert of upper body Aero but not in ground effects cars.
I think Mercedes is in sore need of a new Technical Director.
James Allison is a huge talent and would be a real shame if he dosent build an amazing car
I think they fk up the setup rear wing...
Just look at qualify losing 0.5 only in sector 1 ffs...
I really think that had Red Bull not get the setup wrong in Brazil '22, Mercedes will go the entire regulation cycle with zero win.
My suggestion come to life 👍🏽
😁❤️
Theyre busy solving the symptoms of the problem and it sounds like JA is working to solve the underlying problem which is disintegration of departments. Just by tackling what problems the car does case by case isn't enough and won't be enough. I don't think Merc will be back to fighting for championships without the factory's departments being integrated into their each other's designs. But what do I know