When she said "You hit 18 and find that you can't 'do sex' the way your church wants you to do sex" - so anthropological I cracked a smile. I really respect hearing someone like Luhrmann speaking about her subject in such a non-judgmental, apolitical way. It demonstrates her mastery of methods and philosophical maturity. I listen to a lot of podcasts (which is mostly people promoting their stuff) and this is one of those rare times that I'm half way through and already know I want to get her book.
I'm a little bit of a Tocquevillist in this regard. I believe that culture and sociology play a great role in determining people's beliefs about god and its particular characteristics. For example, I live in Turkey, which has an authoritarian, hierarchical, patriarchal culture, where the law of the jungle ("might is right") is a fact of life, respect is hierarchical and based on a fear of the other person's power, anger is seen as a sign of manliness, and the culture of honor is prevalent. I have also lived in the US for 10 years, so I understand the depth of the cultural chasm between these two countries. In Middle Eastern countries like Turkey, it is very easy for people to believe in an angry, authoritarian and intimidating god with severe punishments to show its power and discontent because that's how life itself is in Turkey. People have seen and/or experienced such treatments (displays of power, intimidation, threats, if not actual physical violence) from each other (at least from their parents) and internalized them and accepted them as a fact of life at the backs of their minds, so they are now willing to believe that god must have such characteristics, too. Thus, when they hear about the quranic god, it resonates with them. Whereas in the US, where people are pretty much equal in face-to-face situations (e.g. a pizza shop owner can grab a sitting president by his waist and lift him up), respect is horizontal, personal autonomy and consent are considered sacred, anger is seen as indicative of underlying psychological issues, bullying, intimidating and threatening others are seen as indicative of personality disorders, not proofs of power, masculinity and virility, people have less of a reason to believe in such a god. A culture of freedom and equality (including gender equality) makes a patriarchal and authoritarian god look much less likely to be the case and more like a historical relic from barbaric eras. The society we live in impresses itself upon us, and we conflate our inference about life based on our particular society with god.
I don’t get it. I was 5 years old when I told my extremely religious Catholic parents that I didn’t believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and God. They nearly blew a gasket. That was over 50 years ago. At no point during the last 50 years, including 12 years of Catholic School, Sunday School, catechism and the constant badgering of my whole family, did anyone ever present any verifiable evidence that confirms the existence of God. All they had was faith that God existed. Unfortunately, faith in one’s belief is evidence of nothing.
Today, on the radio, a news report described how the Catholic church was investigating a woman who claims to be receiving instruction from a statue of Mary. They are investigating whether she is a fraud or indeed she is receiving messages from Mary. The deluded believers in a religion deciding whether somebody else is real or deluded. And they don't see the absurdity.
My favorite one is when in spring worshippers walk out on a sunny day usually Easter is but are overjoyed because Crepe Myrtles are weeping and they raise their hands and let the tears drip all over their faces… But it aphids shitting honeydew I luv it
Not long after attending Zen retreats where the abbess told us to consult the "still, small voice" in all we do, I started having intuitions about places I should go and which way to turn at intersections. Sometimes, they were startingly correct. Being a skeptic, I started recording how often these intuitions were right. I recorded +1 in a notebook when they were correct, -1 when they were wrong, and 0 when they were inconclusive. After hundreds of events, I calculated the average. A hypothesis test said that these events were not statistically different than random.
@@kristinm784 Ok . But I didn't say it doesnt make sense. I said it would depend on context whether it was simple plain and straightforward. I know its not in the bible since I have a program that allows you to look up anything and everything written in the bible, in every translation.
One of the most interesting interviews in this series. I could listen to this woman for another two or three hours, in contrast to others that have bored me to death in the first ten minutes.
They even use the phrase "just so happened..." in the course of assigning grand design to coincidence with no sense of irony. I'm just as guilty. I was religious most my life. I said and did lots of shit, too. lol
Dr. Luhrmann puts out a Dudeist vibe. I dig it! And I needed this deep-dive discussion. I abruptly lost my religion three years ago after three decades as clergy in various capacities. I had auditory and visual religious experiences. "Supernatural" was just another word for "natural" to me. I'm not mentally ill nor unintelligent. I've been tested on both fronts. What those experiences say about who or what's creating my perceptual experience is a question I needed some closure on. In my subsequent immersion in the sciences over these last three years, I've come to identify with (Patricia Churchland's) Neurophilosophy, eliminative physicalism, and hard determinism (and Oxford commas). I'm also an ordained Dudeist, stemming from an affinity with Stoicism and Philosophical Taoism. But none of that has helped me answer the question of whether I'm the one controlling my mind or if it's my mind controlling me... or _both._ And how does *that* work? So this exploration of inner experience and the workings of the brain and contributing influences has helped make me feel like it makes a more sense. Still sucks I lost a lifetime to a socially-induced delusion, but at least I can see that it _was_ delusion, and I'm painfully aware now of the scope of it's power, and I'm glad I got free of it. The trick, it would seem then, is to avoid getting caught in another one, right? Good luck to us all. I'm going to save this to watch again. So good!
There’s something very important too, must reach future generations: the self generates imaginary self concepts of beloved persons and express that as a process (temporary process).
I am an atheist in the sense that I don't know if there is a God but I err o n the side of there being no such thing. Because evidence. This episode did not change my mind d but it made me realize that religion and belief are much more nuanced than the Dawkins/Hitchens/Harris lines of rhetoric. Your patience and respect for this anthropologists view kept me listening. Thank you for helping me strengthen my tolerance of differences.
i’m not religious but i have God by my side we have free will i don’t use God to ease the tensions of the world i understand that He gave us total control it’s much bigger than a security blanket a promise of eternal life with God back to the One who knows me and created me i’m not confused about the evils of society it’s just the good or bad choices God gave a gift to us: we’re not puppets God is definitely not a drug for me i feel more in awe at Gods beautiful creations! appreciative … i’m really grateful that God opened my eyes some will not have their eyes opened sad and scary
God feels so real because He is my Creator!!! So from day 1 of my existence (almost 82 yrs old) He has made Himself real to me, protected me, put a hedge around me as He did for His Servant Job! And He promises that as soon as I die and leave my body, I will be physically united with Him Eternally. 2Cor. 5:6,8
@@billymanilli .. and He restored everything to Job in multiples afterwards. Throughout his trial, Job never lost his faith in his Creator God - "thou He slay me, yet will I trust Him!" I feel the same way as Job did.!!
THE same mythical baby killer that condones owning people as property and selling daughters into slavery also commanded genocide having babies beheaded and letting christian men save the young virgins for themselves for sex? The same mythical people killer that drowned everyone on the planet including innocent babies and children also unborn babies killing animals just because he was pissed? The same god that needed blood sacrifices from animals that he supposably created for thought crimes? The loving, merciful and just god that creates ambiguous gender babies, gender dysphoria babies but yet he hates gays, conjoined twins that are screwed up for life, cancer babies that suffer and die, harlequin ichthyosis babies, babies born without brains etc? Some immoral mythical god you worship. 😂😂
The creation of the tulpa causes me to wonder about the connection between supernatural beliefs and experiences, and mental illnesses like schizoaffective disorders and dissociative identities. Seems to me that the mechanism would be the same, people can learn to create seemingly autonomous separate identities through sustained effort rather than through genetic circumstances.
@@MsDamosmum haha! Same, I don’t think I would be very effective at creating those hallucinations for myself (without the use of strong psychedelics😂). Some people are highly suggestible though, and might have more luck deceiving themselves, I suppose.
A Chicago girl I once dated took me to this big beautiful amazing Baha’i temple in the Windy City. It was truly an impressive work of architecture. When we were leaving I had a realization, which I put into words for my lovely companion. “This is one of the reasons religion persists. ‘Look at how much we’ve spent for this. Look at the lengths we went to have this designed. Look at how beautiful we made it. God MUST be real! He HAS TO be, or else we’ve wasted a ton of resources…’” She, being much less skeptical than I (but still a beautiful intelligent woman), shrugged and said, “Eh, chicken or the egg.” My riposte: “Oh it’s DEFINITELY the chicken.” Anyway, wouldn’t one say that this is kind of like an intentional, weaponized variation on the sunk cost fallacy?
In some respects, yes. But faith is more powerful, it seems, than the effect that sunk costs have on us by themselves. And sunk costs have a very influential effect on us--particularly when ignored. Add faith to that, and we move beyond the mere realm of the sunk cost fallacy. Maybe this is what you meant by using the word "weaponized". Faith turns us into very irrational critters. Yet, I also recognize the benefits of organized religion--even as I reject all of it. I do recall years ago when I indulged in wishful thinking. Hell, I still do it even now. As an old guy, I more readly recognize sunk costs when I see them, and adjust accordingly. I also recognized many years ago the shortcomings of faith, and I adjusted accordingly those many years ago. Even so, your story resonates. Thanks for telling it. BTW, how did things work out between the two of you....if I may inquire? If it did not pan out, I suppose you recognized it as a sunk cost and moved on.
@@lonzo61 Haha! Thank you for thoughtful reply. She broke my heart, just a couple days later. But man, she was a hell of a woman. Sunk cost? I’ll have to think about that one.
@@lonzo61 And of course, you are correct. Perhaps my “insight” was a bit tongue in cheek. But I do think there’s something to it. The masterful, amazing architecture of the pyramids, the medieval cathedrals, the beautiful mosques and ashrams and other temples. It’s kind of a way of saying, “Of COURSE [our] god exists; why else would we go to such trouble?”
I really dislike this confusion over the word "belief" early in the video. I like Matt Dillahunty's definition which is "belief is the result of becoming convinced". You can believe true things or false things. You can believe for good reasons or for bad reasons. Scientists believe for good reasons that evolution is how life changes. People believe in homeopathy for bad or non-existent reasons. Belief is not faith. I also like Dillahunty's definition of faith: "Faith is the excuse people give for believing something when they don't have evidence.“ When people believe something because of good evidence, they no longer call it faith. They call it reality.
I’ve struggled my entire adult life with the notion of a creator or god. Many have. I find it funny in today’s political environment how whenever you see these conversations with the vibe of undermining or making fun of believers it always centers around Christianity. I never see these secular/atheists bringing Muslim and Hinduism (I know Hinduism is different) into the fold to look down on them. They approach similar religions outside Christianity much more respectfully….what’s the difference? Why do those fairy tales warrant so much more respect in conversational approach? ….the others are more a cancelable offense?
Atheists in India criticise Hinduism a lot more than other religions. Atheists in all countries criticise the majority religions in their countries more.
@@ravimorey that makes sense. I still think in the US there is a woke/cancel angle to it. I like religious conversation and I can’t count how many videos I’ve watched of Christianity getting trashed with impunity and the moment the conversation turns to another similar religion like Muslim or Hindu the whole vibe changes to much more respect and consideration and mindfulness of word choice, facial expressions, etc. They are afraid of being cancelled, de-platformed etc. Again, I know Hinduism is different because it’s not monolithic but you get what mean.
@@JB-Mon selection bias... You know English? Guess what, so do I. I, mostly, listen to; read, hear, feel and consume, the culture of the West, that I was raised intoo. Guess what the West, does? It Englishes. It Spanishes. It Christians. And it Jews, now, too. But, before, it did all that, It existed, Before me, Before you. Then, we came... from goo. ☺ And I, became me, You, became you, And, inundated, in these memetic rhymes, We do, be do, be, do. I love you.
That's nonsense. I look down on bad ideas of any kind. As for *"undermining or making fun of believers,"* usually it's the *idea* that I will focus on. Of course, since there are so many devoutly unreasonable believers, it's a bit difficult to avoid commenting on them. I know many are simply *indoctrinated* or not very bright or emotionally needy, and they mean well for the most part, but ignorance and bad ideas must be contested.
Try finding more diverse atheist voices. We actually go after everybody, including Buddhists, my personal favorite religion to critique. Some people equate Islam and Hinduism with non-white people, so they mistake criticism of the religion with racism, a very silly error, but lots of people seem to make it. That may explain the discrepancy you notice.
Michael Shermer mentioned the circulating idea that there were no Atheist in Medieval Europe -- Google this lecture, that's also on You Tube How to be an Atheist in Medieval Europe Alec Ryrie Gresham College
People choose to interpret things they feel as god without any evidence. I meditate and most days have that wonderful feeling to be derived from that practice. I don’t attribute my feelings to Zeus, Garnesh, God or The Cookie Monster because there is no evidence for those things being the primary cause.
Meditate more. You don't exist. You should experience how fake you are, how fake your ego is, how not only you don't exist, but you never did exist and that moment to moment your consciousness just passes through you. Your brain tries to hide this from you, but once you see it, you can't unsee it, and will work so hard to delude yourself back into seeing your self. You are not real. X is here, Y is here.... that X and this Y are not actually the same points in consciousness either. Skeptics who preach skepticism are just as delusional as rich people. You're either a nihilist or you believe in God. All in-between is delusion. You know deep down that this is true too, though you might try to rationalize it away. You know it too, because I couldn't just say "you know that this is true" about just anything.
Mental images are real when they arise inside my head and my attention inverts to experience them. When my attention returns to the external world they disappear. God is a mental image that I create inside my brain.
Of course, not everyone who believes in god has something wrong with their brains. It is entirely possible to raise a person with compassion as well as a belief in god. But note that, just like there's a distinction between domain-specific intelligence and general intelligence, it may also be the case that someone who is not psychotic in a general sense exhibits some psychotic features locally. The "psychosis" may not have overtaken their entire brain, but certain features (e.g. external causes, etiology, neurological patterns and dynamics) may resemble psychosis as we know it on a small scale.
And does this "small scale" psychosis explain why otherwise good and normal people are willing and able to do bad things? Is it an ideology or religion that can enable people to partake in pogroms or persecution? Perhaps one can say that religion has benign and even productive benefits to those who practice some faith. And this would also be the case for those who share the faith (fellow Catholics or Shia Muslims, as examples), since the in-group people are allies while the out-group people are seen as potential threats. If we look at, say, the Khmer Rouge's campaign or terror in 1970s Cambodia, or the seemingly regular fighting of Shis vs Sunni Muslims, we can see how this "psychosis" might apply. But I suppose it's much more complicated than what I am imagining.
Get a load of this shit. "People who are smarter than me who believe in God are obviously deluded/psychotic in some ways, clearly their domain specific intelligence is selective." This is literally the begging-the-question fallacy, a form of circular reasoning. Like, this is such an obvious begging the question fallacy, yet, here you are arrogantly espousing it. Skeptics make me want to blow my brains out of frustration in the same way that creationists do.... but its so much worse because skeptics are so much more convinced of their own bullshit. Honestly, I think skeptics belong in purgatory where they are arguing with flat earthers until they realize that they're actually the same people. I have a friend who is extremely religious and extremely conservative, and patterns of his arguments are exactly like skeptics. It's always this similar type of begging the question fallacy nonsense. Basically, you're all people who can't live in true agnosticism, you HAVE to fill the void with an answer for some reason, and then you have to bang people over the head with your version of the answer. Have you ever noticed how the so many committed atheists come from hyperreligious conservative households? Take a meta view for a moment, and observe the absurd, rigid thinking. John von Neumann and Ludwig Wittgenstein both believed in God, and Wittgenstein's faith was actually instrumental in shaping his world-changing philosophy. But oh, brilliant you to know better than Wittgenstein and is poor delusions..... (Wittgenstein wasn't just brilliant, but was one of the most logically cogent, conceptually brilliant people to ever live, and to accuse him of being more delusional than you is borderline megalomania). "Skeptics" who try to claim to be an authority on the existence of God are full of shit, generally speaking. Agnosticism is the only truly logical approach - anything beyond that is pure egotistical delusion, and choosing definitions of God that suit your own egotistical arguments. www.scientificamerican.com/article/anomalous-events-that-can-shake-one-s-skepticism-to-the-core/ Michael Shermer chooses skepticism willfully. He doesn't act with agnosticism. Events like these in this article happen literally every time someone dies or when someone is married in my life. Literally every single time, and it is always stunning. You can take a reductionist approach to literally anything and everything. I get hyperfrustrated with this because I actually used to be a pretty committed nihilist. Like, I HATE delusion. HATE it. That's where this anger comes from. I love atheists who choose nihilism, because they are at least free from the shackles of egotistical delusion like creating meaning out of nothing. God exists and meaning exists, or God does not and meaning does not exist. This whole creating a religion of skepticism and trying to convert people to atheism is just retarded. Lol. Its batshit crazy. Buck up - realize that nothing matters at all, and that your self in itself is an illusion. Recognize that this X and this Y are not in the same points in consciousness, and that those to points in consciousness are not related. Identity is an illusion - all you need for physics is distinguishability. But, the difference between these concepts is subtle, but makes the world of difference. You're made up of electrons, neutrons and protons, and when you entangle electrons, it makes no physical sense to even ask the question "this is electron 1 and this is electron 2," as it breaks thermodynamics to do so. All these educated people making a religion of skepticism............................ Its just so stupid and frustrating because its so, so, so, so, so fucking philosophically sophomoric, but people continue to act like they're part of some greater enlightened system without ever really asking the question "am I stupid too?" Because to see yourself as stupid would *actually* unmake you. :) Have fun in your delusional prison.
It's actually kind of sad how vacuous it all it is. People go around in such a variety of strange dreams... I am kind of curious, even envious, to know what it is like to be a "believer," but I doubt even systematically constructing an imaginary friend would work for me. (As much as I like Sam Harris, I agree with Shermer about "mindfulness," too. I tried it and don't get it--it's just sitting there with one's eyes closed.) Fascinating conversation.
Interesting comment. I was a 5 year old child of extremely religious Catholic parents when I told them that I didn’t believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and God. I have always felt amazement along with curiosity when I speak to anyone, including my whole family, that they actually believe in God. No person has ever been able to produce any verifiable evidence that confirms the existence of God. This was an interesting conversation for sue. Shermer always has interesting topics, my favourite are Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens, their debates are always entertaining. Be well.
@@maxxwellbeing9449 Exactly... It used to really bug me that my otherwise sane and intelligent family members were saying what seemed to me to be utter nonsense. And especially that they couldn't even seem to hear my reasoning (let alone that of brilliant scientists). I can understand, in difficult times of grief or crisis, why someone would WANT to believe, but like Dawkins has pointed out, we can't really choose what we believe. I can tell myself all day that Jesus or someone is by my side, but I have never been able to really believe that. Dawkins has also wondered if religious people truly believe, in their heart of hearts, what they say they do. The only "truly true" believers might be sitting around mental wards. Dawkins, Shermer, Hitchens, Harris, Krauss, Brian Cox, Pinker, Dennett, others...these folks always make me feel a little saner and smarter. Be well, too.
Yes, that’s what I think….”my otherwise sane and intelligent family”….. It’s hard to understand how they can believe in something so deeply without evidence. From the age of 5 on, my mother tells me that I would tilt my head to the side and have a look of “are ya kidding me” on my face when they’d talk about Gid. I would tell her, “…that’s because you went on with this absolute jibberish….” Then at 6, I started 12 years of Catholic School and was surrounded by, “ otherwise sane and intelligent people” they were everywhere, hundreds of kids and adults who all believed in God. It was like an episode of the Twilight Zone. I was literally the only one who did not believe in God. They said that I asked far too many questions. That’s because they could not answer them all convincingly enough for me to believe their answers. I got lots of smacks with the yard stick, ear pullings and being put in the corner because they’d get so frustrated by not having “convincing” enough answers to my questions. One nun thought I was put there by the devil to test her. Now “she” was a crazy person, which I would make sure to tell her on a daily basis. They tried for over a decade to brainwash me, but only ended up frustrating themselves and proving to me that there was no evidence that proved that God existed, otherwise they would have been able to produce it. It’s been 50 years since I told my parents that I didn’t believe in God, they’re still living and are still believers and still try to convert me at every family gathering. I’m the only one who does not believe in God in my whole family. I love the debate, but like you said, ..otherwise sane and intelligent family… when it comes to God, logic, common sense and rational thought goes right out the window. Just in the last few years I found Dr, Richard Carrier’s lectures here on RUclips, like, “Did Jesus Ever Exist?” Before I assumed that Jesus the man might have been a real person who just lied… but after watching Dr.Carrier’s lectures, finding the Sun God Mithra’s mythical life that is a carbon copy of the Jesus story, I don’t think that even the man ever existed. If you look up “The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross” it gets even worse, “Christ” was. Psychedelic mushroom. Christianity was stated by a stoned mushroom worshiping cult. I just found that about a year ago, religion and God is all nonsense. Well, I’ve jabbered on long enough. Thanks for your response. Be well.
I am envious too. I try hard to believe but nothing comes of it. I can’t meditate either. Tried Sam Harris’ app for a couple of years, nothing changed. I don’t understand what this lady is teaching, spirituality I guess? but it’s all just words to me. She sees it as real because it obviously happens for her and many other people. I’d just like to know why not everyone?
Maybe we should try an experiment? We pick one person in this particular comment section and the rest of us try to beseech god to intervene on their behalf, see if that one person reports a change occurring?
The promise of the church for a personal God connection. The God talk trickles down, with older members God talking newer members in part to amplify their own tenuous connection.
What does life have to do with, other realms? Consider, for a length of time, every planet, around every star; every square meter of, the entire, visible, universe; we know... to exist, and the number, of volumes, of thus all, and just how little, life, is in it. The biological definition of life, not the rest of the non-alive universe, that makes it work. For instance, not every photon that charges an electron, through electromagnetic processes, must be included, in the sum of life... Phew. I love you.
sooo you're saying you scared yourself into a comforting thought in which you have no way of proving it's real, just like you can't prove Santa Clause is real. BOO! Muahahaha
Interview Dr. Bruce Greyson, this lady's really trying to understand religion but what Dr. Greyson does with his research is to show that a great majority of spiritual experiences are evidentiary.
People speaking in tongues: They always do it using phonemes from their primary language. In English speaker doesn't use phonemes from Swahili or any other language unrelated to English.
Real or not, a god doesn't necessarily solve the problems which traditional theists want it to solve. A logically possible god could have created human life without any meaning, purpose, a absolute standard of conduct to live up to, an afterlife or a guarantee of ultimate justice. Theists just imagined this wish list and stuck it on their beliefs about god for basically selfish reasons, when a god is under no obligation to organize its creation for our convenience. BTW, souls *_cannot possibly_* be "immortal," because this belief conflicts with god's omnipotence. Doesn't god have the power to destroy souls?
Heh. Wittgenstein said something funny about this, actually, along the lines of how life after death doesn't actually really solve the problem. He actually believed in God, and his faith actually deeply impacted his philosophy. But, if you have a cartoon understanding of belief/faith, of course you're going to just think that someone like Wittgenstein was one of those "smart but deluded people." That's my favorite one. "All these smart people are dumber than me in this way because they believed in God." The arrogance is just.... mind blowing, like it makes me want to throw my brain in a blender so I don't have to suffer exposure to the stupidity of such mind-boggling willful blindness.
Sorry I just can’t vibe with ‘the world is good’. The last few years have been sheer nonsense. Our world leaders are mostly aloof if not sociopaths. You only have to watch a nature program, yes it all ‘looks’ so beautiful but look closer and it is filled with horrors of every kind (as is every last inch of human history) I watch nature programs once in a while to remind myself that even though life ain’t good, at least nothing is about to have me for lunch! That’s as positive as I can get. Believe me I have tried and that’s the extent of what I can manage as a positive thought! 🤦🏼♀️
Thank you. So... I'll preface this with the fact that I am a former atheist who now believes in God. What shook me out of it is realizing just how quasi-religious these skeptic cult types are, how they irrationally reduce everything.... The one that really irritates the shit out of me is the "smart people who believe in God are just dumber/more delusional than me" rather than "hmmm, I'm pretty smart, but it seems a lot of people smarter than me have a wide variety of opinions, maybe I should be skeptical of my ability to come to a conclusion on this one." But that's because this type of skepticism is a religion, with cosmos worship and rationality-worship. It's not truly logical, rational or cogent. Rather, it is a sense of sensibility mixed in with ego that is doing this. Congratulations to you - you're probably better at actually piercing through delusion, and that's why you can't ignore the problem of evil. It feels so weird pointing out the problem of evil to a skeptic, and how that actually negates this skeptical optimistic delusion.
The belief that we have to do everything a god tells us to do, without question, or else we wind up in a state of alienation from him, makes no sense. What are you supposed to do if a god orders you to disobey him?
If you watch the Vodun sequence in classic film "Black Opheus", or the repetative Gospel stanzas booming away in "Holy Ghost People" in Pentecostal Appalachia or the San Bushmen Shaman dancing to group sonic clapping in the dark dancing firelight ....THEY ALL ...ALL......have the same 2000 yard stare of disembodiment.......ecstatic dance ....ecstatic trance.....trance experiance....."sonic driving into ecstatic trance"
The question is interesting whether one is a theist or not. But the nature of the interest is radically different between convinced atheists and those who are open to the possibility of God's reality. To the former, it's an important evolutionary and psychological question. To the latter, however, it also involves the deepest existential and metaphysical questions plaguing humanity.
@@khanhminhnguyen7274 that's a good question. An initial response is that it doesn't have to. It's not impossible, but there is neither necessary nor direct connection to a psychological and evolutionary study of religious experience and faith in God (of whatever faith).
As a long term Christian, I have heard, a few memorable times ( what I am convinced to be ) the voice of the Holy Spirit. These were rather stunning experiences with grave consequences. I do not think that these were 'inner coaches'. These, to me, at least. were supernatural interventions by God.
"She shoulda bought a Hyundai" LMAO... (Honestly, not too bad advice imho... Pretty good and affordable cars with excellent factory warranties! Haven't seen too many crazy problems with them in my past 25+ years of working on cars for a living)
When two are more are gathered in his name in order to be there, they're simply sharing emotions within Jung's collective psyche. We all do that. God not required.
What does Tanya Luhrman mean when she starts to repeat the description of people as "generative"? Is she trying to recall "generous", or is she trying to incorporate some reference to computer programs? (I'm sure she doesn't mean biological reproduction or medical regeneration, such as wounds in tissue that heal, or "close")
Why transplanting of vital organs such as the heart carry psychological traits with it? And not just a normal psychological characteristic?! is it possible that all I wrote about so-called psychology is correct!
I wonder how this can happen to intelligent, mature, and reasonable people.with all of their marbles still intact. You literally have to throw reality to the wind to believe in the impossibility of God.
Given naturalistic atheism every sensation of thought becomes a mere deterministic inevitable thought determined by the mere movement of the cosmos alone including every atheist thought including the one that atheism is rational.
Fuck the cosmos. It's just a bunch of atoms moving around. Add some numbers to an arbitrary order of magnitude scale. Oh, the observable universe is 10^whatever miles in diameter? Who the fuck cares. It's just an arbitrary number. That's just the delusion of religion alive in atheism. Nihilism is the only rational answer. Everything else is delusion. The self is an illusion - your brain is always trying to hide this illusion from you. Nothing matters. You don't matter. Your family doesn't matter. Your emotions don't matter and don't amount to jack shit. Thinking otherwise is pure delusion. Fuck this delusional cosmos worship, what the fuck man, you call yourself a rationalist? Most of those NASA pictures are colorized anyways - not that it matters because it's probably some nested matrix anyways, so its all probably fake to begin with. Fuck this skeptic religious bullshit. Revel in nihilism, seek power while you draw breath to do so, because that's the closest you'll ever come to anything resembling continuation.
I have to repeat this, because it’s very important: self concept (the most advanced coding system in existence itself) is what generates both consciousness type one and personal identity, the whole process is generated and controlled by self concept, the next is very important too: self concept reaches vital organs such as heart to express feelings,…etc during awake and has the infinitesimal details of the map of the body, that’s the secret of transferring psychological traits via vital organs transplants such as heart transplant and there’s a regression to the brainstem and surrounding area upward during sleep, (this 100% correct). All this must reach future generations clean (intact), many sick irrational thieves already have stolen and polluted human thoughts to write books (that is so dangerous). future generations will need all I have written clean (intact) to survive, they will reach a point while they make progress in science where they have no chance to survive without knowing what I have written. Future generations should not forget that nothing would come into existence without science whatsoever (everything is governed by science and only science), that is essential for them to comprehend. all I have written is correct, they will need all that to survive (they are your descendants), that is the only chance they have to survive.
The "self" is an illusion updated every 1/8 second. Consciousness is predicate on the information processing of atoms. A hydrogen atom processes information at 28 different electromagnetic frequencies. How does a mere hydrogen atom act so exquisitely complex? A God who created reality is the best scientific explanation.
Current understanding of space is completely wrong, Einstein did not even scratch the surface with regard to gravity and space (just an approach, not a solution to space and gravity) , future generations of scientists have no chance to understand gravity without deep understanding of space. the fundamentals of physics are much harder and need continuous scientific hard work that could take up to hundreds of years.
COGNITIVE NEUROSCIENCE explains this conclusively. Psychological processes of belief , euphoric feelings induced by Serotonin and various feel good endorphins that are released during so-called "Spiritual experiences " that are virtually exactly the same as drug addiction , sporting triumphs and musical concerts !
@@archaicsage4803 Well it's obvious YOU don't understand it . The world's most qualified Neuroscientists at Yale , Oxford and other institutions understand it quite well. Whatever the "spiritual" experiences are , the same basic areas of the parietal cortex are active . This has been demonstrated by numerous researchers using subjects in fMRI including Dr. Marc Podenza PhD Neuroscience and Psychiatry at Yale in 2018 , and let's not forget the late Dr. Michael Persinger in Canada with his demonstration of the "God Helmut" , a device which stimulated electrical impulses to those parietal segments and the right angular gyrus to give wearers of the device spooky supernatural and spiritual feelings and experiences. I may not be a PhD in Cognitive science but I am aware of the experimentation and study of it and I understand a hell of a lot more about it than you do with your woo woo ideas !
except it comes quietly not rock concert-like or druggy it’s a finger on your heart an umbilical cord connected to The Holy Spirit it’s not like those other things which i have also experienced God is different
@@kristinm784 No , it is the same . You may interpret it differently , however Neuroscientists from Yale School of Medicine in May 2018 along with previous experiments using fMRI from various neuroscience institutes have shown that religious spiritual experiences eminate from the EXACT same parts of the brain as pleasurable euphoric experiences. Both prayer and meditation correlate with a decreased activity in the parietal lobes, which are responsible for processing temporal and spatial orientation. Praying using words rather than relying on visualization techniques used in meditation - show increased activity in the language-processing brain areas of the subparietal lobes. These results are virtually identical regardless of the religious belief.
@@tropicaussie4572 doesn’t matter God created me God created everything my experience is nothing like drugs or rock concerts it’s physical throughout my chest and upwards ( warm, too) no rock concert ever did that:)
Religious people aren’t religious because they read a syllogism in a book, but rather because they’re emotionally invested in a belief. Explaining religious experiences as a psychological phenomenon, therefore, is likely to produce the most outrage in a theist, given you’re attacking the heart of their faith
Heh. Your delusion is thinking that you aren't emotionally invested yourself. Have fun with that one. Anyone who tries to use logic/science to argue for anything other than agnosticism is delusional. You delude yourself into thinking there's any reason to care about people. You delude yourself into thinking it matters somehow to convert people to atheism because it gives you a delusional sense of control in this meaningless world. Skeptics are people who invent meaning delusionally, and then delusionally think it matters somehow to actually convert people. Like, even utilitarianism is just... like pain and suffering, they are just psychological patterns.
Should religious people be assumed to be dumb when taking important health decisions about their own kids which also affect other kids . Should I be allowed to sue a parent of child who got my kid infected because parents of the other children made obviously dum… b decision to not vax their child ?
I dont know why I miss god. After listening to sam and Hitchens I stopped believing in god and my life or happiness got worse. Sometimes fairly tales are better than a life without magic.
If your happiness got worse, then this has nothing to do with not believing in ridiculous magical fairy tales. You are either doing other things wrong in your life, or you have been simply unlucky. Nobody needs lies to be happy.
There are many things in life that are make believe, that do not exist in nature . Standard time, nations, national borders, money , races instead of species, marriage. These are all legal or societal fictions. God is another make believe project either made real through feelings or as a societal construct or a mental object. Thus God is just as real as money. I bet you will demonstrate that you believe in these legal fictions in the next instance that you buy something.
Don't forget good feelings; forget bad reasons for having them, and find good reasons, for everything. I can't explain everything, either. I just know what works and I love, everything, including humans who have the most unreasonable minds, to me. Guess what those minds tend to believe? Nearly everything anyone has ever convinced them, no matter how little, all, those ideas make sense to me, at the same time. Aliens, ghosts, demons, vampires, lizard people, chupacabras, gods, karma... how do people believe all those things at once? My guess is they do not get exposed to the joys of life; the history, of humanity... especially the cynics, stoics and skeptics of the world, 2,300-to-2,500 years ago. But, I learned of those people, and most others, when my peers were being dragged into churches in their youth by their parents. Forgive Christians, they don't understand what they do; forgive the theists, vampirists and alienists, too. Love us all, love what you are, see the beauty in all we curious monkeys do. Just keep your mental faculties and be a friendly friend, and in return, everyone will be a joy to be with, no matter what they say or do... 'cept maybe a few. But you will find that in your mind, the secret to your happiness, is not to rhyme all the time, but to love, to hold, and let the oxytocin flow. If you want an oxytocin fix, try One Hour One Life. And, when you are a baby, tell your mom you love her. When you are a Mom, tell all your kids you love them, and perhaps; perchance, you will find, the good feelings the concept of an all loving can materialize, in the mind, of a being just like you; because you, are a bit of the universe too; and in that, you, are all the love, you have ever given, to you. All of you. You are the universe. You are you. Be all the love; love this all, and do, be do. Be. Do. - I love you.
skepticism: Suppose there is a group of monkeys in the jungle, and one of the monkeys finds a hologram projector, and takes it with him to the rest of the group and turns it on by chance, so that the hologram projector works and shows the movie! The monkeys try to touch the hologram and then touch the hologram display itself. What will the monkey's reaction be then?! Are the skeptics expected? Of course, and they will say that everything is an illusion and they doubt the existence of the hologram projector itself, and they may deliberately sabotage it to spread doubts among the rest of the apes. Skeptics usually follow the regime, which is a profession in the current media.
If human life was discovered on another planet would religious people abandon religion? Humanity's efforts should go to accomplish the endeavor for our own survival. What else could end religion? Atheism can not end religion because it is a logical fallacy that assumes God is the religious idea of the creator of the creation to conclude wrongly that no creator exists because a particular idea of God doesn’t exist, a deceitful reasoning or lie that is taught from parents to children. Atheists say that atheism is the lack of belief in God because there is no evidence that the creator of the creation exists. Atheists don't deny that the creation exists, at least some because others say "you assume the creation" that means "you assume i exist". Creation is what has a beginning of existence or is not eternal. The creation was created by nothing or something. Atheists admit nothing can be created from nothing because nothing is absence of existence, at least some because others say "with quantum physics something can be created from nothing". Therefore to not believe God exists is to believe everything was created from nothing, to believe the universe popped up into existence from non existence. Could God, the intelligent creator of the creation, be a metaphysical entity instead of a person like you with a terrible temper living in the sky surrounded by angels and satan that do religious miracles interfering with reality for prayers and reveals his nonsensical truth to his favorite prophet? Could God be all eternal and infinite reality? Could you at least give it a thought? Why God has to be sky daddy? I am a psychologist trying to change blind faith in the impossible for reason.
no Gods work, his art and creation is everywhere free will God won’t “ appear” as a bearded man with walking stick…it would be beyond frightening We know God in all different ways
Well, google is a modern day example of one. Actually, google can actually do something, while gods cannot. Of course, belief on gods is a different matter! What the faithful believe can be very consequential.
Skeptic - I have analyzed and found all religions are framed on two templates. Hero of a Thousand Faces. I can interpret them conceptually. Starts right off In Genesis with monomyth after monomyth. Check it out.
Congratulations on the new year of concerts in consciousness in the mixes of the mindfulness of creations and how to draw upon the psychological effects of a true reaction to the vibrational world we live with is a very important part of our lives we have so many ways to make things happen and I didn't understand how to make a weather condition change the way it works is commitments to your own personal relationships with the States of reality in reactions from a higher level of source the none thinking languages an angels songs is a story lines of different types of music that can be played on any particular place of the world. Love honor and peace of mind to share with the States of vibrational currents and to understand the way the world has a vibrational transition from the experience of experiencing a touch with God's hands all alone but the sensory of someone with no their too your eye's and hearing a voice from someone who you can't see
7:06 - asking God to feed your dog wouldn’t even be a thought. God isn’t a servant or child. That comparison to faith/ belief shows she is closed off, and doesn’t really understand-> this, not truly observing, hearing, trying to understand.
Richard Dawkins is a great intellectual although the bible wasn't created to be read like a science book (Christian literalists may believe that) I am certain God is real. Rather than using the 5 senses I believe you should simply use your gut instincts to confirm God is real & He exists. The vivid sense that is felt in your gut is your inner compass conscience. Descartes concluded 'I think therefore I am!' indicating you will only truly know by 'thought & feeling' of the holy peace & the presence Christ will give us. It appears that most people seek God by looking for a physical manifestation. It seems no more far fetched to believe we all magically appeared from 'The big bang' Nothing can't create everything & the fact we all find ourselves together on a planet perfectly situated in a solar system to support life should get your imagination digging deeper for ultimate truth! The reason & idea many people give to argue for the notion that there is no God is often 'Why God doesn't just jump in to every situation to prevent evil acts being carried out?' Although I've no doubt God does intervene in certain situations, It seems obvious that if God intervened to all of them & did not allow us to practice the freedom He allows us, we would be like automatons with no free will! It seems atheism has become a faith of it's own, it has many followers with Dawkins at the helm.
If 'god' was a created term, the earliest human must be atheist. But, where's the atheist civilisation throughout human history? Every ancient civilisation has the word 'god'. Unless you consider the human-like apes to be human, then they were the atheist. Why is that...? Its more n more seems like atheistism is the man made belief...
People make God in their own desired image. The happy clappy pentecostal god. The suffering messiah, the justice dealing yahweh, joels olsteen prosperity god, ram dass god is everything visible and invisible unless you take the sacred mushroom, mescaline, peyote, ayahuasca or eboga thall reveal the god to you or the Alan Watts God or terence mckenna god. Ive had enough of it all.
yes, that would be called a hallucination. if several people around you don't also hear the voices, then where exactly are they coming from? of course they would have to come directly from the minds own false fabrications. if we are going to take auditory hallucinations seriously, then let us also take diagnosed schizophrenics hallucinations equally as seriously as they are functionally the same accounts, or perhaps those auditory hallucinations are that persons first signs of some kind or neurological degeneration (idk what i'm talking about, just guessing)
@@ImHeadshotSniper Your quite correct . In ancient times , and even the middle ages in Europe ,regardless of which culture or religion was in place , people with mental health disorders were either believed to be "Prophets" or particularly in Judeo-christian cultures , cases of demonic possession. Unfortunately , there are still religious nutjobs around today in the 21st century that still believe in demonic possession and do not understand or accept the scientific reality of neurological and psychological health problems.
While I find this interesting, I'm curious who funds an anthropological study like this? I know many (maybe most) anthropologists are also intelligence spies, but I didn't think they had interest in churches.
LIFE: current understanding of life is wrong, life in essence is related cycle two not to cycle one which is this universe. this universe is cycle one and cycle two is what built cycle one (this universe). everything is governed by science and only science including cycle two, but cycle two isn’t easy at all (it’s existence itself). What was mentioned above is correct to a very high accuracy (future generations can rely on that), it’s not possible to break that. Science is the only truth mankind has because it is the tool to figure out the ultimate truth and because the essence of truth is science itself (everything is governed by science and nothing would come into existence without science whatsoever). some irrationals including the sick irrational thieves, think that the existence of self concept (the most advanced coding system in existence itself) means so-called dualism! they want to steal and pollute human thoughts then interpret them! the current understanding of of space is wrong, very likely space is one unit and current understanding of dimensions is incorrect. this universe was built within cycle two (existence), that is why what the irrationals say has no meaning. future generations will be able to reach cycle two as soon as they decipher the secret of gravity, not because gravity is cycle two! but because it’s the tool to reach cycle two, and future generations will need to decipher the secret of consciousness type one because cycle two has different approach to time and because they will need consciousness type one to take control of spaceships that uses gravity technology. some irrational thieves thought that deciphering both gravity and consciousness type one, means that gravity and consciousness are the same! I wrote only for the sake of future generations and science, I never wrote for the sick irrational thieves to steal and pollute!
It would be more compelling if that guest wouldn't be having such a distaste in her voice toward religion that she can't hide. It is funny, because people who lived in cages religion were there. You don't seem to understand that God and religion are different. You believe that there is no god, some people find it ridiculous.
And some of us would be as joyless as these two atheists in this discussion , sorry just that they are so dripping with arrogance and such fools at the same time ..not to mention lumping in climate change trump and vaccine deniers well some of us Christians who don't require tongues or signs and miracles but believe Christ died for all our sins and promises eternal life..well we aren't dumb or foolish
Tongues and visions and miracles.. conservative Bible Believers have none of that as it was specifically the charismatics and pentacostals you studied for 15 years..well did Bible Studies ever study God's word? Probably not much.
I love skeptics, lol. Sophists they were called before Plato made them change their name, lol. And heres the source that started all religions ruclips.net/video/t7EAlTcZFwY/видео.html What did atheism ever build?
When she said "You hit 18 and find that you can't 'do sex' the way your church wants you to do sex" - so anthropological I cracked a smile. I really respect hearing someone like Luhrmann speaking about her subject in such a non-judgmental, apolitical way. It demonstrates her mastery of methods and philosophical maturity. I listen to a lot of podcasts (which is mostly people promoting their stuff) and this is one of those rare times that I'm half way through and already know I want to get her book.
Or else you're a guy who turns 18, and then you start to realize that you can't attract a girlfriend. Atheist incels are actually pretty common.
I'm a little bit of a Tocquevillist in this regard. I believe that culture and sociology play a great role in determining people's beliefs about god and its particular characteristics. For example, I live in Turkey, which has an authoritarian, hierarchical, patriarchal culture, where the law of the jungle ("might is right") is a fact of life, respect is hierarchical and based on a fear of the other person's power, anger is seen as a sign of manliness, and the culture of honor is prevalent. I have also lived in the US for 10 years, so I understand the depth of the cultural chasm between these two countries. In Middle Eastern countries like Turkey, it is very easy for people to believe in an angry, authoritarian and intimidating god with severe punishments to show its power and discontent because that's how life itself is in Turkey. People have seen and/or experienced such treatments (displays of power, intimidation, threats, if not actual physical violence) from each other (at least from their parents) and internalized them and accepted them as a fact of life at the backs of their minds, so they are now willing to believe that god must have such characteristics, too. Thus, when they hear about the quranic god, it resonates with them. Whereas in the US, where people are pretty much equal in face-to-face situations (e.g. a pizza shop owner can grab a sitting president by his waist and lift him up), respect is horizontal, personal autonomy and consent are considered sacred, anger is seen as indicative of underlying psychological issues, bullying, intimidating and threatening others are seen as indicative of personality disorders, not proofs of power, masculinity and virility, people have less of a reason to believe in such a god. A culture of freedom and equality (including gender equality) makes a patriarchal and authoritarian god look much less likely to be the case and more like a historical relic from barbaric eras.
The society we live in impresses itself upon us, and we conflate our inference about life based on our particular society with god.
Great analysis! In any case, both versions of gods are human inventions, and neither should be taken seriously.
Excellent comment. Very insightful and objective.
@@skyeblu817
Red sky at sunset.
Well done, great observation. Have you fully adapted to the American way or does it depend who you are with? 😊
@@VaughanMcCue Sunset red sky's at night is sailers delight. red skys in the morning sailers take warning. Weather look out report phrased.
I don’t get it. I was 5 years old when I told my extremely religious Catholic parents that I didn’t believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and God. They nearly blew a gasket. That was over 50 years ago. At no point during the last 50 years, including 12 years of Catholic School, Sunday School, catechism and the constant badgering of my whole family, did anyone ever present any verifiable evidence that confirms the existence of God. All they had was faith that God existed. Unfortunately, faith in one’s belief is evidence of nothing.
I have read and listened to Michael Shermer's opinions over the years and really look up to him. He is a valuable source of knowledge.
Michael K.
His The Believing Brain is a great book.
If someone could tell me what was the point of that conversation I'd be most grateful.
Awesome guest, thank you Michael.
Thank you, Tonya,
I love both of you.
I heard voices the other day and it freaked me out. It turned out that my laptop had woken itself up from sleep and I was listening to this book talk!
Well, in a manner of speaking, our laptops, along with google, are modern day gods of a sort.
Read a book years ago called Charismatic Chaos mainly whistleblowing on movement. There were lessons one could attend to learn tongues or echolalia.
I love that what she said about ''nobody asks God to feed their pets'' i'm gonna use that.
Today, on the radio, a news report described how the Catholic church was investigating a woman who claims to be receiving instruction from a statue of Mary. They are investigating whether she is a fraud or indeed she is receiving messages from Mary. The deluded believers in a religion deciding whether somebody else is real or deluded. And they don't see the absurdity.
My favorite one is when in spring worshippers walk out on a sunny day usually Easter is but are overjoyed because Crepe Myrtles are weeping and they raise their hands and let the tears drip all over their faces…
But it aphids shitting honeydew
I luv it
@@Atheistbatman Love the name!
☺
Not long after attending Zen retreats where the abbess told us to consult the "still, small voice" in all we do, I started having intuitions about places I should go and which way to turn at intersections. Sometimes, they were startingly correct. Being a skeptic, I started recording how often these intuitions were right. I recorded +1 in a notebook when they were correct, -1 when they were wrong, and 0 when they were inconclusive. After hundreds of events, I calculated the average. A hypothesis test said that these events were not statistically different than random.
"Whenever two or more are gathered in my name, I am there" ... that about does it for me 🤗
So youre easily persuaded and easily satisfied it appears.
@@Suzume-Shimmer
here’s another great one;
“ you will know Me by My works”
The Holy Bible
simple
plain
straightforward
@@kristinm784
It could be simple plain and straightforward I guess it would depend on context. However its not from the bible.
@@Suzume-Shimmer
it makes 100% sense to me
His Works
everywhere and in abundance:)
how do you know it’s not from The Bible?
@@kristinm784
Ok .
But I didn't say it doesnt make sense. I said it would depend on context whether it was simple plain and straightforward.
I know its not in the bible since
I have a program that allows you to look up anything and everything written in the bible, in every translation.
One of the most interesting interviews in this series. I could listen to this woman for another two or three hours, in contrast to others that have bored me to death in the first ten minutes.
Can confirm that I went to a church like this and one of their rules was not to prophecy "mates, dates, or babies".
It is OK to be delusional/religious, as long as you harm nobody.
Its ok to be an atheist 'as long as you harm nobody'...little bit patronising?
@@PieJesu244 These people think that they are free from delusion.
That's how you know that they're extremely deluded.
@@PieJesu244 I agree. It is OK to be an atheist as long as nobody is harmed.
@@Seekthetruth3000 So the harming no one goes without saying.
@@PieJesu244 For you and me. On the other hand, some people need to be reminded regularly not to harm anyone.
i think it's worth pointing that if there were no coincidences, that would be really weird!
They even use the phrase "just so happened..." in the course of assigning grand design to coincidence with no sense of irony. I'm just as guilty. I was religious most my life. I said and did lots of shit, too. lol
And what a coincidence that would be...
When I meet somebody and hear them say “things happen for a reason” I prepare for the worst.
Amazing. I got answers for questions that were stuck in me since I left the church over 20 years ago.
Were they good questions?
@@chikkipop Why?
@@abitoftheuniverse2 Why? Because it frequently turns out that such questions *ARE NOT.*
@@chikkipop Are not, what?
@@abitoftheuniverse2 Follow the thread.
Dr. Luhrmann puts out a Dudeist vibe. I dig it! And I needed this deep-dive discussion. I abruptly lost my religion three years ago after three decades as clergy in various capacities. I had auditory and visual religious experiences. "Supernatural" was just another word for "natural" to me. I'm not mentally ill nor unintelligent. I've been tested on both fronts. What those experiences say about who or what's creating my perceptual experience is a question I needed some closure on. In my subsequent immersion in the sciences over these last three years, I've come to identify with (Patricia Churchland's) Neurophilosophy, eliminative physicalism, and hard determinism (and Oxford commas). I'm also an ordained Dudeist, stemming from an affinity with Stoicism and Philosophical Taoism. But none of that has helped me answer the question of whether I'm the one controlling my mind or if it's my mind controlling me... or _both._ And how does *that* work? So this exploration of inner experience and the workings of the brain and contributing influences has helped make me feel like it makes a more sense. Still sucks I lost a lifetime to a socially-induced delusion, but at least I can see that it _was_ delusion, and I'm painfully aware now of the scope of it's power, and I'm glad I got free of it. The trick, it would seem then, is to avoid getting caught in another one, right? Good luck to us all. I'm going to save this to watch again. So good!
There’s something very important too, must reach future generations: the self generates imaginary self concepts of beloved persons and express that as a process (temporary process).
The disenchanted have no place ... you either avoid disenchantment as a teen or become re-enchanted as an adult. Then you have a place.
We HU-MONKEYS have always been a group of superstitious HU-MONKEYS!
My conversion was first purely based upon Science.. I have found that many in history also came to belief & faith based upon logic/ reason, & Science
Did she record her audiobook? Great voice!
I am an atheist in the sense that I don't know if there is a God but I err o n the side of there being no such thing. Because evidence. This episode did not change my mind d but it made me realize that religion and belief are much more nuanced than the Dawkins/Hitchens/Harris lines of rhetoric. Your patience and respect for this anthropologists view kept me listening. Thank you for helping me strengthen my tolerance of differences.
Religion is human egoism and narcissistic escapism from the weird stressors and pain, suffering , loneliness and death . Sort of a mental drug .
i’m not religious
but i have God by my side
we have free will
i don’t use God to ease the tensions of the world
i understand that He gave us total control
it’s much bigger than a security blanket
a promise of eternal life with God
back to the One who knows me and created me
i’m not confused about the evils of society
it’s just the good or bad choices
God gave a gift to us: we’re not puppets
God is definitely not a drug for me
i feel more in awe at Gods beautiful creations! appreciative …
i’m really grateful that God opened my eyes
some will not have their eyes opened
sad and scary
He feels real to people who have lost their minds
God feels so real because He is my Creator!!! So from day 1 of my existence (almost 82 yrs old) He has made Himself real to me, protected me, put a hedge around me as He did for His Servant Job! And He promises that as soon as I die and leave my body, I will be physically united with Him Eternally. 2Cor. 5:6,8
...except for that time he let satan completely wreck his life and kill his 10 kids, for doing nothing but doing exactly what he was supposed to be.
that's just diabolical...
@@billymanilli .. and He restored everything to Job in multiples afterwards. Throughout his trial, Job never lost his faith in his Creator God - "thou He slay me, yet will I trust Him!"
I feel the same way as Job did.!!
THE same mythical baby killer that condones owning people as property and selling daughters into slavery also commanded genocide having babies beheaded and letting christian men save the young virgins for themselves for sex?
The same mythical people killer that drowned everyone on the planet including innocent babies and children also unborn babies killing animals just because he was pissed?
The same god that needed blood sacrifices from animals that he supposably created for thought crimes? The loving, merciful and just god that creates ambiguous gender babies, gender dysphoria babies but yet he hates gays, conjoined twins that are screwed up for life, cancer babies that suffer and die, harlequin ichthyosis babies, babies born without brains etc? Some immoral mythical god you worship. 😂😂
The creation of the tulpa causes me to wonder about the connection between supernatural beliefs and experiences, and mental illnesses like schizoaffective disorders and dissociative identities. Seems to me that the mechanism would be the same, people can learn to create seemingly autonomous separate identities through sustained effort rather than through genetic circumstances.
I could carry out the practice until the day I die, nothing would happen!
@@MsDamosmum haha! Same, I don’t think I would be very effective at creating those hallucinations for myself (without the use of strong psychedelics😂). Some people are highly suggestible though, and might have more luck deceiving themselves, I suppose.
A Chicago girl I once dated took me to this big beautiful amazing Baha’i temple in the Windy City. It was truly an impressive work of architecture. When we were leaving I had a realization, which I put into words for my lovely companion. “This is one of the reasons religion persists. ‘Look at how much we’ve spent for this. Look at the lengths we went to have this designed. Look at how beautiful we made it. God MUST be real! He HAS TO be, or else we’ve wasted a ton of resources…’”
She, being much less skeptical than I (but still a beautiful intelligent woman), shrugged and said, “Eh, chicken or the egg.”
My riposte: “Oh it’s DEFINITELY the chicken.”
Anyway, wouldn’t one say that this is kind of like an intentional, weaponized variation on the sunk cost fallacy?
In some respects, yes. But faith is more powerful, it seems, than the effect that sunk costs have on us by themselves. And sunk costs have a very influential effect on us--particularly when ignored. Add faith to that, and we move beyond the mere realm of the sunk cost fallacy. Maybe this is what you meant by using the word "weaponized". Faith turns us into very irrational critters. Yet, I also recognize the benefits of organized religion--even as I reject all of it. I do recall years ago when I indulged in wishful thinking. Hell, I still do it even now.
As an old guy, I more readly recognize sunk costs when I see them, and adjust accordingly. I also recognized many years ago the shortcomings of faith, and I adjusted accordingly those many years ago.
Even so, your story resonates. Thanks for telling it. BTW, how did things work out between the two of you....if I may inquire? If it did not pan out, I suppose you recognized it as a sunk cost and moved on.
@@lonzo61 Haha! Thank you for thoughtful reply. She broke my heart, just a couple days later. But man, she was a hell of a woman. Sunk cost? I’ll have to think about that one.
@@lonzo61 Also, “weaponized” was a dumb word for me to have used there
@@lonzo61 And of course, you are correct. Perhaps my “insight” was a bit tongue in cheek. But I do think there’s something to it. The masterful, amazing architecture of the pyramids, the medieval cathedrals, the beautiful mosques and ashrams and other temples. It’s kind of a way of saying, “Of COURSE [our] god exists; why else would we go to such trouble?”
@@Lopfff It is a word that is seemingly overused used by writers and media pundits the past ten or so years.
Really interesting discussion- thank you
Interesting; voices and psychosis, thank you.
I really dislike this confusion over the word "belief" early in the video. I like Matt Dillahunty's definition which is "belief is the result of becoming convinced". You can believe true things or false things. You can believe for good reasons or for bad reasons. Scientists believe for good reasons that evolution is how life changes. People believe in homeopathy for bad or non-existent reasons.
Belief is not faith. I also like Dillahunty's definition of faith: "Faith is the excuse people give for believing something when they don't have evidence.“ When people believe something because of good evidence, they no longer call it faith. They call it reality.
I’ve struggled my entire adult life with the notion of a creator or god. Many have. I find it funny in today’s political environment how whenever you see these conversations with the vibe of undermining or making fun of believers it always centers around Christianity. I never see these secular/atheists bringing Muslim and Hinduism (I know Hinduism is different) into the fold to look down on them. They approach similar religions outside Christianity much more respectfully….what’s the difference? Why do those fairy tales warrant so much more respect in conversational approach? ….the others are more a cancelable offense?
Atheists in India criticise Hinduism a lot more than other religions. Atheists in all countries criticise the majority religions in their countries more.
@@ravimorey that makes sense. I still think in the US there is a woke/cancel angle to it. I like religious conversation and I can’t count how many videos I’ve watched of Christianity getting trashed with impunity and the moment the conversation turns to another similar religion like Muslim or Hindu the whole vibe changes to much more respect and consideration and mindfulness of word choice, facial expressions, etc. They are afraid of being cancelled, de-platformed etc. Again, I know Hinduism is different because it’s not monolithic but you get what mean.
@@JB-Mon selection bias...
You know English?
Guess what, so do I.
I, mostly, listen to; read, hear, feel and consume, the culture of the West, that I was raised intoo.
Guess what the West, does?
It Englishes.
It Spanishes.
It Christians.
And it Jews, now, too.
But, before, it did all that,
It existed,
Before me,
Before you.
Then, we came...
from goo. ☺
And I, became me,
You, became you,
And, inundated, in
these memetic rhymes,
We do, be do, be, do.
I love you.
That's nonsense. I look down on bad ideas of any kind.
As for *"undermining or making fun of believers,"* usually it's the *idea* that I will focus on. Of course, since there are so many devoutly unreasonable believers, it's a bit difficult to avoid commenting on them. I know many are simply *indoctrinated* or not very bright or emotionally needy, and they mean well for the most part, but ignorance and bad ideas must be contested.
Try finding more diverse atheist voices. We actually go after everybody, including Buddhists, my personal favorite religion to critique. Some people equate Islam and Hinduism with non-white people, so they mistake criticism of the religion with racism, a very silly error, but lots of people seem to make it. That may explain the discrepancy you notice.
Michael Shermer mentioned the circulating idea that there were no Atheist in Medieval Europe -- Google this lecture, that's also on You Tube
How to be an Atheist in Medieval Europe
Alec Ryrie
Gresham College
Ecclesiastes in the Bible essentially is a book about nihilism.
Excellent topic and discussion.
People choose to interpret things they feel as god without any evidence. I meditate and most days have that wonderful feeling to be derived from that practice.
I don’t attribute my feelings to Zeus, Garnesh, God or The Cookie Monster because there is no evidence for those things being the primary cause.
Meditate more.
You don't exist. You should experience how fake you are, how fake your ego is, how not only you don't exist, but you never did exist and that moment to moment your consciousness just passes through you.
Your brain tries to hide this from you, but once you see it, you can't unsee it, and will work so hard to delude yourself back into seeing your self.
You are not real. X is here, Y is here.... that X and this Y are not actually the same points in consciousness either.
Skeptics who preach skepticism are just as delusional as rich people.
You're either a nihilist or you believe in God. All in-between is delusion.
You know deep down that this is true too, though you might try to rationalize it away. You know it too, because I couldn't just say "you know that this is true" about just anything.
Mental images are real when they arise inside my head and my attention inverts to experience them. When my attention returns to the external world they disappear.
God is a mental image that I create inside my brain.
Of course, not everyone who believes in god has something wrong with their brains. It is entirely possible to raise a person with compassion as well as a belief in god. But note that, just like there's a distinction between domain-specific intelligence and general intelligence, it may also be the case that someone who is not psychotic in a general sense exhibits some psychotic features locally. The "psychosis" may not have overtaken their entire brain, but certain features (e.g. external causes, etiology, neurological patterns and dynamics) may resemble psychosis as we know it on a small scale.
And does this "small scale" psychosis explain why otherwise good and normal people are willing and able to do bad things? Is it an ideology or religion that can enable people to partake in pogroms or persecution? Perhaps one can say that religion has benign and even productive benefits to those who practice some faith. And this would also be the case for those who share the faith (fellow Catholics or Shia Muslims, as examples), since the in-group people are allies while the out-group people are seen as potential threats.
If we look at, say, the Khmer Rouge's campaign or terror in 1970s Cambodia, or the seemingly regular fighting of Shis vs Sunni Muslims, we can see how this "psychosis" might apply. But I suppose it's much more complicated than what I am imagining.
Get a load of this shit.
"People who are smarter than me who believe in God are obviously deluded/psychotic in some ways, clearly their domain specific intelligence is selective."
This is literally the begging-the-question fallacy, a form of circular reasoning. Like, this is such an obvious begging the question fallacy, yet, here you are arrogantly espousing it. Skeptics make me want to blow my brains out of frustration in the same way that creationists do.... but its so much worse because skeptics are so much more convinced of their own bullshit.
Honestly, I think skeptics belong in purgatory where they are arguing with flat earthers until they realize that they're actually the same people. I have a friend who is extremely religious and extremely conservative, and patterns of his arguments are exactly like skeptics. It's always this similar type of begging the question fallacy nonsense. Basically, you're all people who can't live in true agnosticism, you HAVE to fill the void with an answer for some reason, and then you have to bang people over the head with your version of the answer.
Have you ever noticed how the so many committed atheists come from hyperreligious conservative households? Take a meta view for a moment, and observe the absurd, rigid thinking.
John von Neumann and Ludwig Wittgenstein both believed in God, and Wittgenstein's faith was actually instrumental in shaping his world-changing philosophy. But oh, brilliant you to know better than Wittgenstein and is poor delusions..... (Wittgenstein wasn't just brilliant, but was one of the most logically cogent, conceptually brilliant people to ever live, and to accuse him of being more delusional than you is borderline megalomania).
"Skeptics" who try to claim to be an authority on the existence of God are full of shit, generally speaking. Agnosticism is the only truly logical approach - anything beyond that is pure egotistical delusion, and choosing definitions of God that suit your own egotistical arguments.
www.scientificamerican.com/article/anomalous-events-that-can-shake-one-s-skepticism-to-the-core/
Michael Shermer chooses skepticism willfully. He doesn't act with agnosticism. Events like these in this article happen literally every time someone dies or when someone is married in my life. Literally every single time, and it is always stunning. You can take a reductionist approach to literally anything and everything.
I get hyperfrustrated with this because I actually used to be a pretty committed nihilist. Like, I HATE delusion. HATE it. That's where this anger comes from.
I love atheists who choose nihilism, because they are at least free from the shackles of egotistical delusion like creating meaning out of nothing. God exists and meaning exists, or God does not and meaning does not exist.
This whole creating a religion of skepticism and trying to convert people to atheism is just retarded. Lol. Its batshit crazy.
Buck up - realize that nothing matters at all, and that your self in itself is an illusion. Recognize that this X and this Y are not in the same points in consciousness, and that those to points in consciousness are not related.
Identity is an illusion - all you need for physics is distinguishability. But, the difference between these concepts is subtle, but makes the world of difference. You're made up of electrons, neutrons and protons, and when you entangle electrons, it makes no physical sense to even ask the question "this is electron 1 and this is electron 2," as it breaks thermodynamics to do so.
All these educated people making a religion of skepticism............................ Its just so stupid and frustrating because its so, so, so, so, so fucking philosophically sophomoric, but people continue to act like they're part of some greater enlightened system without ever really asking the question "am I stupid too?"
Because to see yourself as stupid would *actually* unmake you.
:)
Have fun in your delusional prison.
It's actually kind of sad how vacuous it all it is. People go around in such a variety of strange dreams... I am kind of curious, even envious, to know what it is like to be a "believer," but I doubt even systematically constructing an imaginary friend would work for me. (As much as I like Sam Harris, I agree with Shermer about "mindfulness," too. I tried it and don't get it--it's just sitting there with one's eyes closed.) Fascinating conversation.
Interesting comment. I was a 5 year old child of extremely religious Catholic parents when I told them that I didn’t believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and God. I have always felt amazement along with curiosity when I speak to anyone, including my whole family, that they actually believe in God. No person has ever been able to produce any verifiable evidence that confirms the existence of God.
This was an interesting conversation for sue. Shermer always has interesting topics, my favourite are Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens, their debates are always entertaining. Be well.
@@maxxwellbeing9449 Exactly... It used to really bug me that my otherwise sane and intelligent family members were saying what seemed to me to be utter nonsense. And especially that they couldn't even seem to hear my reasoning (let alone that of brilliant scientists). I can understand, in difficult times of grief or crisis, why someone would WANT to believe, but like Dawkins has pointed out, we can't really choose what we believe. I can tell myself all day that Jesus or someone is by my side, but I have never been able to really believe that. Dawkins has also wondered if religious people truly believe, in their heart of hearts, what they say they do. The only "truly true" believers might be sitting around mental wards. Dawkins, Shermer, Hitchens, Harris, Krauss, Brian Cox, Pinker, Dennett, others...these folks always make me feel a little saner and smarter. Be well, too.
Yes, that’s what I think….”my otherwise sane and intelligent family”….. It’s hard to understand how they can believe in something so deeply without evidence.
From the age of 5 on, my mother tells me that I would tilt my head to the side and have a look of “are ya kidding me” on my face when they’d talk about Gid. I would tell her, “…that’s because you went on with this absolute jibberish….”
Then at 6, I started 12 years of Catholic School and was surrounded by, “ otherwise sane and intelligent people” they were everywhere, hundreds of kids and adults who all believed in God. It was like an episode of the Twilight Zone. I was literally the only one who did not believe in God.
They said that I asked far too many questions. That’s because they could not answer them all convincingly enough for me to believe their answers.
I got lots of smacks with the yard stick, ear pullings and being put in the corner because they’d get so frustrated by not having “convincing” enough answers to my questions. One nun thought I was put there by the devil to test her. Now “she” was a crazy person, which I would make sure to tell her on a daily basis.
They tried for over a decade to brainwash me, but only ended up frustrating themselves and proving to me that there was no evidence that proved that God existed, otherwise they would have been able to produce it.
It’s been 50 years since I told my parents that I didn’t believe in God, they’re still living and are still believers and still try to convert me at every family gathering. I’m the only one who does not believe in God in my whole family. I love the debate, but like you said, ..otherwise sane and intelligent family… when it comes to God, logic, common sense and rational thought goes right out the window.
Just in the last few years I found Dr, Richard Carrier’s lectures here on RUclips, like, “Did Jesus Ever Exist?”
Before I assumed that Jesus the man might have been a real person who just lied… but after watching Dr.Carrier’s lectures, finding the Sun God Mithra’s mythical life that is a carbon copy of the Jesus story, I don’t think that even the man ever existed.
If you look up “The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross” it gets even worse, “Christ” was. Psychedelic mushroom. Christianity was stated by a stoned mushroom worshiping cult. I just found that about a year ago, religion and God is all nonsense.
Well, I’ve jabbered on long enough. Thanks for your response. Be well.
I am envious too. I try hard to believe but nothing comes of it. I can’t meditate either. Tried Sam Harris’ app for a couple of years, nothing changed. I don’t understand what this lady is teaching, spirituality I guess? but it’s all just words to me. She sees it as real because it obviously happens for her and many other people. I’d just like to know why not everyone?
Maybe we should try an experiment? We pick one person in this particular comment section and the rest of us try to beseech god to intervene on their behalf, see if that one person reports a change occurring?
This makes me think about Julian Jayne's, the Origins of Conscious in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind.
The promise of the church for a personal God connection. The God talk trickles down, with older members God talking newer members in part to amplify their own tenuous connection.
I went through an existential crisis a few months back and it made me reconsider the meaning of life and the existence of another realm beyond ours
What realm?
And out of sheer desperation did you decide you need one to believe in?
What does life have to do with, other realms?
Consider, for a length of time, every planet, around every star; every square meter of, the entire, visible, universe; we know... to exist, and the number, of volumes, of thus all, and just how little, life, is in it.
The biological definition of life, not the rest of the non-alive universe, that makes it work. For instance, not every photon that charges an electron, through electromagnetic processes, must be included, in the sum of life...
Phew.
I love you.
sooo you're saying you scared yourself into a comforting thought in which you have no way of proving it's real, just like you can't prove Santa Clause is real. BOO! Muahahaha
@@ImHeadshotSniper I was thinking more or less the same thing.....
Great talk! Thanks for sharing this!
Interview Dr. Bruce Greyson, this lady's really trying to understand religion but what Dr. Greyson does with his research is to show that a great majority of spiritual experiences are evidentiary.
People speaking in tongues:
They always do it using phonemes from their primary language. In English speaker doesn't use phonemes from Swahili or any other language unrelated to English.
Really like her, very interesting stuff
Real or not, a god doesn't necessarily solve the problems which traditional theists want it to solve. A logically possible god could have created human life without any meaning, purpose, a absolute standard of conduct to live up to, an afterlife or a guarantee of ultimate justice. Theists just imagined this wish list and stuck it on their beliefs about god for basically selfish reasons, when a god is under no obligation to organize its creation for our convenience.
BTW, souls *_cannot possibly_* be "immortal," because this belief conflicts with god's omnipotence. Doesn't god have the power to destroy souls?
I'm not a theist, but that's terrible logic. Immortality has never meant "completely metaphysically indestructible."
@@sigiligus We use the same term as one of god's characteristics.
Heh.
Wittgenstein said something funny about this, actually, along the lines of how life after death doesn't actually really solve the problem.
He actually believed in God, and his faith actually deeply impacted his philosophy.
But, if you have a cartoon understanding of belief/faith, of course you're going to just think that someone like Wittgenstein was one of those "smart but deluded people."
That's my favorite one. "All these smart people are dumber than me in this way because they believed in God."
The arrogance is just.... mind blowing, like it makes me want to throw my brain in a blender so I don't have to suffer exposure to the stupidity of such mind-boggling willful blindness.
Sorry I just can’t vibe with ‘the world is good’. The last few years have been sheer nonsense. Our world leaders are mostly aloof if not sociopaths. You only have to watch a nature program, yes it all ‘looks’ so beautiful but look closer and it is filled with horrors of every kind (as is every last inch of human history) I watch nature programs once in a while to remind myself that even though life ain’t good, at least nothing is about to have me for lunch! That’s as positive as I can get. Believe me I have tried and that’s the extent of what I can manage as a positive thought! 🤦🏼♀️
Thank you.
So... I'll preface this with the fact that I am a former atheist who now believes in God.
What shook me out of it is realizing just how quasi-religious these skeptic cult types are, how they irrationally reduce everything....
The one that really irritates the shit out of me is the "smart people who believe in God are just dumber/more delusional than me" rather than "hmmm, I'm pretty smart, but it seems a lot of people smarter than me have a wide variety of opinions, maybe I should be skeptical of my ability to come to a conclusion on this one."
But that's because this type of skepticism is a religion, with cosmos worship and rationality-worship. It's not truly logical, rational or cogent. Rather, it is a sense of sensibility mixed in with ego that is doing this.
Congratulations to you - you're probably better at actually piercing through delusion, and that's why you can't ignore the problem of evil. It feels so weird pointing out the problem of evil to a skeptic, and how that actually negates this skeptical optimistic delusion.
@@hellomate639 For every atheist who becomes a believer there is a believe who becomes an atheist. It’s all just lived experience I guess
The belief that we have to do everything a god tells us to do, without question, or else we wind up in a state of alienation from him, makes no sense. What are you supposed to do if a god orders you to disobey him?
If you watch the Vodun sequence in classic film "Black Opheus", or the repetative Gospel stanzas booming away in "Holy Ghost People" in Pentecostal Appalachia or the San Bushmen Shaman dancing to group sonic clapping in the dark dancing firelight ....THEY ALL ...ALL......have the same 2000 yard stare of disembodiment.......ecstatic dance ....ecstatic trance.....trance experiance....."sonic driving into ecstatic trance"
The question is interesting whether one is a theist or not. But the nature of the interest is radically different between convinced atheists and those who are open to the possibility of God's reality. To the former, it's an important evolutionary and psychological question. To the latter, however, it also involves the deepest existential and metaphysical questions plaguing humanity.
Which deity do you refer to in your second sentence ?
@@khanhminhnguyen7274 classical theism (Judeo-Christian)
@@zgobermn6895 How does evolutionary and psychological question about god lead people to Yahweh instead of Krishna ?
Some atheists are open to evidence of a gods existence. I don't know what gods reality is.
@@khanhminhnguyen7274 that's a good question. An initial response is that it doesn't have to. It's not impossible, but there is neither necessary nor direct connection to a psychological and evolutionary study of religious experience and faith in God (of whatever faith).
As a long term Christian, I have heard, a few memorable times ( what I am convinced to be ) the voice of the Holy Spirit. These were rather stunning experiences with grave consequences. I do not think that these were 'inner coaches'. These, to me, at least. were supernatural interventions by God.
See also, The Illusion of God's Presence by John Wathey
God is very to those who are his adopted children
however many believe in God but will never see His kingdom
It's 2023- "It FEEELS true, to me.." literally MAKES that belief into "truth". Just ask Matt Dillahunty what defines "men" vs "women"....
Brain structure.
I put your brain in the body of another sex, which sex are you then? How would you prove your answer. Now read the relevant neuroscience .
@bacon curious, what is your definition of a woman?
Look up Daisy Taylor, or Buck Angel. That’s a good woman, and a man.
"She shoulda bought a Hyundai" LMAO...
(Honestly, not too bad advice imho... Pretty good and affordable cars with excellent factory warranties! Haven't seen too many crazy problems with them in my past 25+ years of working on cars for a living)
When two are more are gathered in his name in order to be there, they're simply sharing emotions within Jung's collective psyche. We all do that. God not required.
I have joked for years that in order to believe that stuff, someone would have to be a paranoid schizophrenic.
But I have to admit that you seem an honest person, probably man of principles somehow.
What does Tanya Luhrman mean when she starts to repeat the description of people as "generative"? Is she trying to recall "generous", or is she trying to incorporate some reference to computer programs? (I'm sure she doesn't mean biological reproduction or medical regeneration, such as wounds in tissue that heal, or "close")
Why transplanting of vital organs such as the heart carry psychological traits with it? And not just a normal psychological characteristic?!
is it possible that all I wrote about so-called psychology is correct!
There is only one thing. It is delusion of human exceptionalism that discombobbles.
I wonder how this can happen to intelligent, mature, and reasonable people.with all of their marbles still intact. You literally have to throw reality to the wind to believe in the impossibility of God.
What is personal identity?! is it possible that all I wrote is correct!
Given naturalistic atheism every sensation of thought becomes a mere deterministic inevitable thought determined by the mere movement of the cosmos alone including every atheist thought including the one that atheism is rational.
Atheism is nothing but rationality.
@@maxxwellbeing9449
You can call that REASON but I will call it by its real name REACTION.
@@grandconjunct So being an atheists is a reaction to nonsense and impossibility? Sounds about right.
Fuck the cosmos. It's just a bunch of atoms moving around. Add some numbers to an arbitrary order of magnitude scale. Oh, the observable universe is 10^whatever miles in diameter? Who the fuck cares. It's just an arbitrary number.
That's just the delusion of religion alive in atheism.
Nihilism is the only rational answer. Everything else is delusion. The self is an illusion - your brain is always trying to hide this illusion from you.
Nothing matters. You don't matter. Your family doesn't matter. Your emotions don't matter and don't amount to jack shit. Thinking otherwise is pure delusion.
Fuck this delusional cosmos worship, what the fuck man, you call yourself a rationalist? Most of those NASA pictures are colorized anyways - not that it matters because it's probably some nested matrix anyways, so its all probably fake to begin with.
Fuck this skeptic religious bullshit. Revel in nihilism, seek power while you draw breath to do so, because that's the closest you'll ever come to anything resembling continuation.
I have to repeat this, because it’s very important: self concept (the most advanced coding system in existence itself) is what generates both consciousness type one and personal identity, the whole process is generated and controlled by self concept, the next is very important too: self concept reaches vital organs such as heart to express feelings,…etc during awake and has the infinitesimal details of the map of the body, that’s the secret of transferring psychological traits via vital organs transplants such as heart transplant and there’s a regression to the brainstem and surrounding area upward during sleep, (this 100% correct).
All this must reach future generations clean (intact), many sick irrational thieves already have stolen and polluted human thoughts to write books (that is so dangerous).
future generations will need all I have written clean (intact) to survive, they will reach a point while they make progress in science where they have no chance to survive without knowing what I have written.
Future generations should not forget that nothing would come into existence without science whatsoever (everything is governed by science and only science), that is essential for them to comprehend.
all I have written is correct, they will need all that to survive (they are your descendants), that is the only chance they have to survive.
Scientific understanding is but one way (left brain) to view and experience reality.
The Taoist view better matches "what is."
And, I am not a Taoist.
The "self" is an illusion updated every 1/8 second.
Consciousness is predicate on the information processing of atoms.
A hydrogen atom processes information at 28 different electromagnetic frequencies.
How does a mere hydrogen atom act so exquisitely complex?
A God who created reality is the best scientific explanation.
I've written some stuff too. It will probably end up in the trash when I die.
The effects of delusion are felt by all.
I finished eating my ice cream @ 36:00 then @ 37:00. OMG! LOL! That was fun! But nope still an atheist.
Current understanding of space is completely wrong, Einstein did not even scratch the surface with regard to gravity and space (just an approach, not a solution to space and gravity) , future generations of scientists have no chance to understand gravity without deep understanding of space.
the fundamentals of physics are much harder and need continuous scientific hard work that could take up to hundreds of years.
My opinion is they never read the book. Past and present tense.
Reading entire book only leaves two options
You become an Atheist
Or a conman
Funny to think that Michael SHERMER (teenage) is a former CHRISTIAN who spent 7 years evangelizing door-to-door. Lol
COGNITIVE NEUROSCIENCE explains this conclusively. Psychological processes of belief , euphoric feelings induced by Serotonin and various feel good endorphins that are released during so-called "Spiritual experiences " that are virtually exactly the same as drug addiction , sporting triumphs and musical concerts !
That is a description of a process you still do not understand, not an explanation.
@@archaicsage4803 Well it's obvious YOU don't understand it . The world's most qualified Neuroscientists at Yale , Oxford and other institutions understand it quite well.
Whatever the "spiritual" experiences are , the same basic areas of the parietal cortex are active . This has been demonstrated by numerous researchers using subjects in fMRI including Dr. Marc Podenza PhD Neuroscience and Psychiatry at Yale in 2018 , and let's not forget the late Dr. Michael Persinger in Canada with his demonstration of the "God Helmut" , a device which stimulated electrical impulses to those parietal segments and the right angular gyrus to give wearers of the device spooky supernatural and spiritual feelings and experiences.
I may not be a PhD in Cognitive science but I am aware of the experimentation and study of it and I understand a hell of a lot more about it than you do with your woo woo ideas !
except it comes quietly
not rock concert-like or druggy
it’s a finger on your heart
an umbilical cord connected to The Holy Spirit
it’s not like those other things which i have also experienced
God is different
@@kristinm784 No , it is the same . You may interpret it differently , however Neuroscientists from Yale School of Medicine in May 2018 along with previous experiments using fMRI from various neuroscience institutes have shown that religious spiritual experiences eminate from the EXACT same parts of the brain as pleasurable euphoric experiences.
Both prayer and meditation correlate with a decreased activity in the parietal lobes, which are responsible for processing temporal and spatial orientation.
Praying using words rather than relying on visualization techniques used in meditation - show increased activity in the language-processing brain areas of the subparietal lobes.
These results are virtually identical regardless of the religious belief.
@@tropicaussie4572
doesn’t matter
God created me
God created everything
my experience is nothing like drugs or rock concerts
it’s physical throughout my chest and upwards ( warm, too)
no rock concert ever did that:)
Self is an illusion? Illusion of _what?_
Religious people aren’t religious because they read a syllogism in a book, but rather because they’re emotionally invested in a belief. Explaining religious experiences as a psychological phenomenon, therefore, is likely to produce the most outrage in a theist, given you’re attacking the heart of their faith
Heh.
Your delusion is thinking that you aren't emotionally invested yourself.
Have fun with that one.
Anyone who tries to use logic/science to argue for anything other than agnosticism is delusional.
You delude yourself into thinking there's any reason to care about people. You delude yourself into thinking it matters somehow to convert people to atheism because it gives you a delusional sense of control in this meaningless world.
Skeptics are people who invent meaning delusionally, and then delusionally think it matters somehow to actually convert people.
Like, even utilitarianism is just... like pain and suffering, they are just psychological patterns.
Should religious people be assumed to be dumb when taking important health decisions about their own kids which also affect other kids . Should I be allowed to sue a parent of child who got my kid infected because parents of the other children made obviously dum… b decision to not vax their child ?
I dont know why I miss god. After listening to sam and Hitchens I stopped believing in god and my life or happiness got worse. Sometimes fairly tales are better than a life without magic.
Perhaps they're not necessarily 'fairy tales' the way Harris and Hitchens sophomoric "criticisms" portray them to be?
If your happiness got worse, then this has nothing to do with not believing in ridiculous magical fairy tales.
You are either doing other things wrong in your life, or you have been simply unlucky.
Nobody needs lies to be happy.
There are many things in life that are make believe, that do not exist in nature . Standard time, nations, national borders, money , races instead of species, marriage. These are all legal or societal fictions. God is another make believe project either made real through feelings or as a societal construct or a mental object. Thus God is just as real as money. I bet you will demonstrate that you believe in these legal fictions in the next instance that you buy something.
Don't forget good feelings; forget bad reasons for having them, and find good reasons, for everything.
I can't explain everything, either. I just know what works and I love, everything, including humans who have the most unreasonable minds, to me.
Guess what those minds tend to believe? Nearly everything anyone has ever convinced them, no matter how little, all, those ideas make sense to me, at the same time.
Aliens, ghosts, demons, vampires, lizard people, chupacabras, gods, karma... how do people believe all those things at once?
My guess is they do not get exposed to the joys of life; the history, of humanity... especially the cynics, stoics and skeptics of the world, 2,300-to-2,500 years ago.
But, I learned of those people, and most others, when my peers were being dragged into churches in their youth by their parents.
Forgive Christians, they don't understand what they do; forgive the theists, vampirists and alienists, too.
Love us all, love what you are, see the beauty in all we curious monkeys do.
Just keep your mental faculties and be a friendly friend, and in return, everyone will be a joy to be with, no matter what they say or do...
'cept maybe a few.
But you will find that in your mind, the secret to your happiness, is not to rhyme all the time, but to love, to hold, and let the oxytocin flow.
If you want an oxytocin fix, try One Hour One Life. And, when you are a baby, tell your mom you love her.
When you are a Mom, tell all your kids you love them, and perhaps; perchance, you will find, the good feelings the concept of an all loving can materialize, in the mind, of a being just like you; because you, are a bit of the universe too; and in that, you, are all the love, you have ever given, to you.
All of you.
You are the universe.
You are you.
Be all the love;
love this all,
and do, be do.
Be. Do.
-
I love you.
@A.Plosky your right, it's better to be responsible than a victim.
skepticism: Suppose there is a group of monkeys in the jungle, and one of the monkeys finds a hologram projector, and takes it with him to the rest of the group and turns it on by chance, so that the hologram projector works and shows the movie! The monkeys try to touch the hologram and then touch the hologram display itself. What will the monkey's reaction be then?! Are the skeptics expected? Of course, and they will say that everything is an illusion and they doubt the existence of the hologram projector itself, and they may deliberately sabotage it to spread doubts among the rest of the apes. Skeptics usually follow the regime, which is a profession in the current media.
What on earth is that nonsensical rambling? Go fix your addled brain.
If human life was discovered on another planet would religious people abandon religion? Humanity's efforts should go to accomplish the endeavor for our own survival. What else could end religion? Atheism can not end religion because it is a logical fallacy that assumes God is the religious idea of the creator of the creation to conclude wrongly that no creator exists because a particular idea of God doesn’t exist, a deceitful reasoning or lie that is taught from parents to children. Atheists say that atheism is the lack of belief in God because there is no evidence that the creator of the creation exists. Atheists don't deny that the creation exists, at least some because others say "you assume the creation" that means "you assume i exist". Creation is what has a beginning of existence or is not eternal. The creation was created by nothing or something. Atheists admit nothing can be created from nothing because nothing is absence of existence, at least some because others say "with quantum physics something can be created from nothing". Therefore to not believe God exists is to believe everything was created from nothing, to believe the universe popped up into existence from non existence.
Could God, the intelligent creator of the creation, be a metaphysical entity instead of a person like you with a terrible temper living in the sky surrounded by angels and satan that do religious miracles interfering with reality for prayers and reveals his nonsensical truth to his favorite prophet? Could God be all eternal and infinite reality? Could you at least give it a thought? Why God has to be sky daddy? I am a psychologist trying to change blind faith in the impossible for reason.
Answer: Culture.
God allegedly talks to people more than appears to them. Shouldn't that strike them as odd?
no
Gods work, his art and creation is everywhere
free will
God won’t “ appear” as a bearded man with walking stick…it would be beyond frightening
We know God in all different ways
What is a god?
A being that can change the laws of physics
Well, google is a modern day example of one. Actually, google can actually do something, while gods cannot. Of course, belief on gods is a different matter! What the faithful believe can be very consequential.
43:50 chopra is not religious and steal from here and there, then what he is marketing for?!
"God" is speaking are we listening is the ?
Skeptic - I have analyzed and found all religions are framed on two templates. Hero of a Thousand Faces. I can interpret them conceptually. Starts right off In Genesis with monomyth after monomyth. Check it out.
There is no god.
Science H. Logic
Evidence pls?
@@zgobermn6895 Sorry,unclear whether you believe in the big g or not
@@zgobermn6895 An absence of evidence, is evidence of absence, when evidence should be expected!
Why did humans make god?
Congratulations on the new year of concerts in consciousness in the mixes of the mindfulness of creations and how to draw upon the psychological effects of a true reaction to the vibrational world we live with is a very important part of our lives we have so many ways to make things happen and I didn't understand how to make a weather condition change the way it works is commitments to your own personal relationships with the States of reality in reactions from a higher level of source the none thinking languages an angels songs is a story lines of different types of music that can be played on any particular place of the world. Love honor and peace of mind to share with the States of vibrational currents and to understand the way the world has a vibrational transition from the experience of experiencing a touch with God's hands all alone but the sensory of someone with no their too your eye's and hearing a voice from someone who you can't see
7:06 - asking God to feed your dog wouldn’t even be a thought. God isn’t a servant or child.
That comparison to faith/ belief shows she is closed off, and doesn’t really understand-> this, not truly observing, hearing, trying to understand.
Richard Dawkins is a great intellectual although the bible wasn't
created to be read like a science book (Christian literalists
may believe that)
I am certain God is real.
Rather than using the 5 senses I believe you should simply use your gut
instincts to confirm God is real & He exists. The vivid sense that is felt in
your gut is your inner compass conscience.
Descartes concluded 'I think therefore I am!' indicating you will only
truly know by 'thought & feeling' of the holy peace & the presence Christ
will give us.
It appears that most people seek God by looking for a physical manifestation.
It seems no more far fetched to believe we all
magically appeared from 'The big bang'
Nothing can't create everything & the fact we all find ourselves together
on a planet perfectly situated in a solar system to support life should
get your imagination digging deeper for ultimate truth!
The reason & idea many people give to argue for the notion
that there is no God is often 'Why God doesn't just jump in to
every situation to prevent evil acts being carried out?'
Although I've no doubt God does intervene in certain situations,
It seems obvious that if God intervened to all of them & did
not allow us to practice the freedom He allows us, we would
be like automatons with no free will!
It seems atheism has become a faith of it's own, it has many
followers with Dawkins at the helm.
If 'god' was a created term, the earliest human must be atheist. But, where's the atheist civilisation throughout human history? Every ancient civilisation has the word 'god'. Unless you consider the human-like apes to be human, then they were the atheist. Why is that...? Its more n more seems like atheistism is the man made belief...
People make God in their own desired image. The happy clappy pentecostal god. The suffering messiah, the justice dealing yahweh, joels olsteen prosperity god, ram dass god is everything visible and invisible unless you take the sacred mushroom, mescaline, peyote, ayahuasca or eboga thall reveal the god to you or the Alan Watts God or terence mckenna god. Ive had enough of it all.
Hearing voices is neuropsychological, Michael.
yes, that would be called a hallucination. if several people around you don't also hear the voices, then where exactly are they coming from? of course they would have to come directly from the minds own false fabrications.
if we are going to take auditory hallucinations seriously, then let us also take diagnosed schizophrenics hallucinations equally as seriously as they are functionally the same accounts, or perhaps those auditory hallucinations are that persons first signs of some kind or neurological degeneration (idk what i'm talking about, just guessing)
@@ImHeadshotSniper Your quite correct . In ancient times , and even the middle ages in Europe ,regardless of which culture or religion was in place , people with mental health disorders were either believed to be "Prophets" or particularly in Judeo-christian cultures , cases of demonic possession.
Unfortunately , there are still religious nutjobs around today in the 21st century that still believe in demonic possession and do not understand or accept the scientific reality of neurological and psychological health problems.
@@ImHeadshotSniper I'm a hallucination.
Becauz people themselves are psychoids of Goddesses and Demons ..............
17:00 illusions mixed with sophistry and stupidity! as if ignorance is fighting itself !
Silly conversation!
While I find this interesting, I'm curious who funds an anthropological study like this? I know many (maybe most) anthropologists are also intelligence spies, but I didn't think they had interest in churches.
LIFE: current understanding of life is wrong, life in essence is related cycle two not to cycle one which is this universe.
this universe is cycle one and cycle two is what built cycle one (this universe).
everything is governed by science and only science including cycle two, but cycle two isn’t easy at all (it’s existence itself). What was mentioned above is correct to a very high accuracy (future generations can rely on that), it’s not possible to break that.
Science is the only truth mankind has because it is the tool to figure out the ultimate truth and because the essence of truth is science itself (everything is governed by science and nothing would come into existence without science whatsoever).
some irrationals including the sick irrational thieves, think that the existence of self concept (the most advanced coding system in existence itself) means so-called dualism! they want to steal and pollute human thoughts then interpret them!
the current understanding of of space is wrong, very likely space is one unit and current understanding of dimensions is incorrect.
this universe was built within cycle two (existence), that is why what the irrationals say has no meaning.
future generations will be able to reach cycle two as soon as they decipher the secret of gravity, not because gravity is cycle two! but because it’s the tool to reach cycle two, and future generations will need to decipher the secret of consciousness type one because cycle two has different approach to time and because they will need consciousness type one to take control of spaceships that uses gravity technology.
some irrational thieves thought that deciphering both gravity and consciousness type one, means that gravity and consciousness are the same!
I wrote only for the sake of future generations and science, I never wrote for the sick irrational thieves to steal and pollute!
It would be more compelling if that guest wouldn't be having such a distaste in her voice toward religion that she can't hide. It is funny, because people who lived in cages religion were there. You don't seem to understand that God and religion are different. You believe that there is no god, some people find it ridiculous.
And some of us would be as joyless as these two atheists in this discussion , sorry just that they are so dripping with arrogance and such fools at the same time ..not to mention lumping in climate change trump and vaccine deniers well some of us Christians who don't require tongues or signs and miracles but believe Christ died for all our sins and promises eternal life..well we aren't dumb or foolish
More like : How No God becomes the (new) deal? Wonder how do "smart-modern" people judge as delusion...? as materialism the "new" norm.
Tongues and visions and miracles.. conservative Bible Believers have none of that as it was specifically the charismatics and pentacostals you studied for 15 years..well did Bible Studies ever study God's word? Probably not much.
I love skeptics, lol. Sophists they were called before Plato made them change their name, lol. And heres the source that started all religions
ruclips.net/video/t7EAlTcZFwY/видео.html
What did atheism ever build?
Because God is. 😊