Not exactly the same each time, as different industries died for different reasons; case in point being the aircraft industry, which declined due to government interference (at times even outright sabotage, as Handley Page in particular experienced), while Shipbuilding & the Cotton Mills was chiefly due to the trade unions stifling all serious efforts to modernise.
Either the moneyed class has its way - or . . . . (and you would never have caught them on two wheels, anyway). 💬 It is generally better for engineers to *_manage_* engineering companies than financiers. You would think it obvious, perhaps. But it is less obvious to a financier, obviously.
‘Complacency and mismanagement’. Two words which sum up post-war post imperial British manufacturing. Of course when industry fails the management, who pretend to hate government interference, suddenly blame ‘lack of government support’.
And everyone blames the unions. By the way, I'm not a union man, but it's the same story time and time again, everywhere. When management and government start blaming unions, you know that the management and governance has made grave mistakes.
@@davidbrayshaw3529 Too right. My great Uncle worked in the Amal (of carburettor fame) offices. I asked him how I might improve my bike's carburation and not only did he not have a clue how carbs operated, he was slightly insulted I should expect him, white collar person, to know how 'the oily bits' worked. *In Japan that attitude would have seen folk sacked* ........ Join the dots.
@@babboon5764 The Japanese production systems after the War (based on the Deming system which was ignored in the West) involved amongst other things encouraging people at every level of the organisation to suggest improvements to the product and to the manufacturing process. One of the results of this was their ability to produce a range of products from a fairly small manufacturing base. Japan is hierarchical, but they had the sense to treat their people as assets, rather than costs.
‘Complacency and mismanagement’. You took the words out of my mouth. Bert Hopwood had plenty of innovative, modular designs that could have excited the motorcycle-buying public but by then it was too late - the money had run out.
@micahthedrumcorpspseudoboo7250 Not really. Trains went down the same drain as Aircraft; politicians thinking they knew how to regulate, and then how to run things (spoiler: they didn't).
No company operates in a vacuum, the environment they are in as the biggest effect on if they are successful, look at British industry and business today weighed down with excessive taxation and regulation, while totally exposed to cheaper competition from abroad. The problem is we keep voting for incompetent and corrupt group of largely middle class politicians from a legal and journalistic background.
I had a 1969 Trident, it leaked oil from day 1 it never started reliably even when I fitted Boyer ignition, it broke rear chains. Then a friend bought a new CB750 which I test rode. I was instantly converted and bought one, 5 speed, electric start, disc brake and best of all no oil leaks which my girlfriend loved, meaning we arrived as clean as when we left!
Had a mate with a Trident. He said its best feature was that it had an automatic oil level warning system. It told you when it was time to put some oil in because it stopped dripping ...
Some years ago , about 20 , I was working for a motorcycle shop in Sydney ( Australia ) . On the showroom floor we had a Honda CB750 and a Triumph Bonneville. Both from the same year , 1969 , but the Triumph looked like it was from several decades prior .
management who were ashamed to be involved with motorbikes. Sums it up really. Indian Royal Enfield boss now requires all management to have a Royal Enfield motorbike to ride as their transport. Very different ethos indeed.
That's a very good thing as it help understand the problem and the scope of improvement of the product within the management !!! . That's why Royal Enfield sells fun and happiness !!!
Complacency, being cocky and thinking you are superior to your competitors when the fact is that you really aren´t, can be extremely dangerous. British car- and motorcycle industry had to learn that in the hard way in the 1960s and 1970s
Those large inline twin cylinder British bikes had issues with vibrations. I had a Kawasaki 750 twin when I gave a ride to a fellow motorcyclist with a disabled bike one day, he was amazed at the smoothness of the 750 twin I had, as his previous experience was with the Triumph twin, where he told me that twin design would vibrate.
the story of the Japanese resurgence after their utter defeat in 1945 is a story in its own right. It almost seems like the empire of japans ambitions did in the end lead to Japan being a world leader. They just had to suffer a while first and learn that conquest was not the way to go
The British motorcycle industry was not the biggest motorcycle industry in the world prior to the Japanese, it was the German motorcycle industry with NSU alone building over 200,000 bikes a year. They were the most advanced. Yet by the 70s only an handful of manufactures remained. Yet their technology was extensively used by the Japanese. All their 2cstrokes are of German design and the basis of the 4 stroke technology is German and Italian. A good book worth reading is German motorcycles by Mick Walker he gives a good account of the many German companies
My East German car built in 1988 has an engine that was developed from the pre war DKW two stroke engines. It gives 26hp from 595cc running on 50:1 petrol.
There was a great deal of loyalty amongst existing owners of British bikes but they did nothing to build new customers. I remember "The nicest people (ride a Honda)" campaign with its clean, quiet, easy to ride bikes with electric starts ensured that a new type of customer went entirely Japanese. The belated introduction of the Rocket 3/Trident to the dwindling number of hardcore British bikers seemed even at the time like the last gasp, and by comparison to the 750 Honda they seemed horribly dated.
I remember stripping my first Japanese bike after a lifetime of owning British bikes, and marvelling at the jewel-like appearance of the clutch and gears etc.so precise and well made.
Motorcycle buyers are some of the most brand-loyal customers that even existed, but when your product is so bad that even they begin to wonder about that, you're done for. The death of the British motorcycle industry is a complex subject and is filed with examples of glaring errors going unaddressed and of mistakes being compounded on top of previous mistakes until collapse was inevitable. There's a lot written on this and it's sad to those of us who loved those bikes and saw them fade into oblivion. Nearly every feature and improvement on the motorcycle was a British idea but almost none of them saw their main success in British hands.
My understanding there was a lot of head in the sand and arrogance, which was the same in the car world. I can remember seeing an interview with sir Roger Moore when they were looking for a car for the Saint they approached British manufacturers as they thought that would show loyalty and be very British for him. why would we be interested in doing that for you, Was the reply ! you can pay full market price for it -despite giving it free advertising , oh and go to the back of the line , as we can sell every car we make. Volvo on the other hand was very keen to be involved. Saw the benefit and gave a P 1800 at very good terms, the rest was history. The P 1800 and Volvo would go on to be very much more popular than I suspect it would have been was it not for the very public promotion and dashing image provided by Roger Moore in the Saint
@@bloqk16 yes I nearly brought one in the late 80s early 90s - it wasn’t price too bad I wish I had. It would be worth a fortune now LOL they were lovely cars and Roger Moore said he always enjoyed driving them and that the Volvo people were super nice to deal with
Interestingly that the "three main " fails to mention AMC (AJS, Matchless, James, Francis barnett and, later, Norton). Norton's financial difficulties were not down to the development of the "featherbed" but to it's outdated production facilities and lack of pre-war investment. A good read is a canadian academic Steve Korner's study "the strange death of the British motorcycle industry" which notes that even in the pre war period, UK manufacturers had retreated from the mass market small bike market so that the high value, high cost bikes that they focused on became vulnerable. Being realistic, it's likely that the British industry would have collapsed in the fifties or sixties had the war not intervened. The industry did invest in machinery - in the early 1950s, AMC spent 1.5 million on new tooling - but invested to build the same old - pushrod, vertically split crankcase, seperate engine & gearbox - models. it's probably too simplistic to see the collapse of the british industry as a post-war thing and I'd strongly recommend Korner's work in which he traces the roots of failure back into the 1930s.
I found Korner to be confused parts of his book are very good but he claims the British motorcycle industry lacked a small lightweight bike yet BSA had the bantam and Villiers supplied engines to many a British motorcycle company.
@@jasonhull1342 what he does is show that the British industry de-emphasised smaller machines and put less development time and money onto them. The Bantam is a case in point - they got that from DKW and it underwent little development over it's life, taking ages to gain a 4th gear and never getting automatic oiling or 12v electrics. Villiers were similar and it's telling that the British manufacturers relied on external suppliers - villiers - and didn't develope their own engines, except for the AMC piatti failure which was essentially an attempt to do villiers on the cheap. None of the British factories built ranges from the bottom and none of them tried to create mass market "consumer durables" for the commuter.
Imagining a post war environment in Britain's motorcycle industry, without the war, is difficult. There are just so many variables that the war brought with it in the terms of technology, global wealth distribution, treaties and trends, that it is almost impossible to predict a "what if" scenario. Clearly, a lack of investment in the motorcycle industry was a post war trend. But it is arguable that this trend didn't start post war, but rather pre war. And it is arguable that this lack of investment wasn't contained to motorcycles, but it was rather much a hangover from the depression and a hubris that comes following such a prolonged and sustained position at "the top" throughout the industrial revolution. Whether we like it or not, the USA hit the 20th century running, by comparison to Britain. They had mastered the assembly line and mass manufacturing. And they had mastered an economy in which markets grew (they forgot about that, 40 years ago!). Britain didn't respond. Same old, same old. Same old production techniques, same old management of the economy. My own grandfather was a reasonably wealthy wool merchant in Yorkshire. Prior to the war, his pride and joy was a Brough Superior. At the same time, the likes of his employees in the USA, were driving cars. And no, I don't have the Brough! Yes, I'm stating that to get a bit of a boast in about my families status, nearly a hundred years ago. And I'm using an anecdote that should appeal to motorcyclists. But I'm also using that anecdote to draw a picture of just how far behind the eight ball Britain was rapidly becoming, by that time. You are obviously very well versed in the post war history of Britain's bike industry. I hope that I've given you something to ponder in relation to that.
@@davidbrayshaw3529 You're right about the performance of the British economy in the early 20th century, although it's worth remebering that there were depressions in the UK back in the 1890s and a real concern pre-WW1 that we were "losing out" to the USA and Germany. I always point out that Britain was "the workshop of the world", not the factory. That tells you about the scale of British industry, workshop based, artisanal production. Whilst it's true we did move to production line assembly, the motorcycle industry was too small to do this in a meaningful way. They lacked the capital to invest in major production line facilities, very much focused on in-house manufacture (workshop of the world again) and shareholders were keen to ensure that dividends were paid, rather than be reinvested. The result of this was that British factories tended to move towards more high value products, not commuter bikes, hence the "segmented retreat" from the small bike market which started early on, pre war.
In all fairness, the 1890's depression was global, not just isolated to Britain. And it followed a string of "boom bust" cycles that were rather much a feature of advanced economies in the 18th and 19th century. A little off subject, but I am still staggered today that there has been such a push over the last 40 years from conservatives with a will to return the world's economies back to as they were at this time. It is interesting to learn that Britain was concerned about "losing out" to advancing economies, in the early twentieth century. I have a vision of complacency at that time, fuelled by substantial wealth in the ruling classes and a steady diet of produce from the colonies, one of in which I live, Australia. If the likes of the USA and Germany were the factories of the world and Britain was the workshop, we were the shearing shed, and little more, at that time. It is often reported that the demise of the British bike industry was due to a lack of investment post war, for the reasons that you mention. A former employer of mine actually did his B.A. thesis on that very subject. And while that is certainly the case, in my opinion, the chronology is somewhat skewed to fit a narrative that focuses a little to much on the advantages that Germany, Japan and the USA had, post war, rather than the lack of investment and development in Britain, pre war. For that, I find fault in that it fails to accurately portray in full the economic mismanagement of Britain throughout the entire 20th century Britain was the unrivalled leader in technology in the 18th and 19th century. In addition to this it was also home to a disproportionate number of highly skilled trades people. This did not change as Britain entered the 20th century. What did change was the value that was placed on such people, and, as a consequence, there was a failure to invest in endeavours that drew from this pool of talent. An unintended consequence of this was that this neglect failed to enrich and create a large untapped market. The likes of the USA, however, during the same period realised the potential wealth that could be drawn from this market and took full opportunity to capitalise on it. The USA realised that the if they could make more people with money, they could make more money from people. Of course, that thinking would change as we neared the end of the century but it had been the recipe for economic success in the years prior. I realise that I'm starting to sound like a closet communist or similar. I'm not. I'm far from it actually. And I'm not a unionist either! But populist history points the finger of economic demise in Britain at the working classes and their God forsaken unions and incessant pay demands. But the truth of the matter is that by this stage, a century or more of keeping this group on the poverty line was a dire mistake. They were potential demand that was never realised. And it was a lot of unrealised demand. It was this in combination with the will of CEO's to write dividend cheques rather than invest in plant that hurt Britain so badly. But the history has never been written that way. The "winners" win the right to write the history. It has always been thus. And history repeats. How's your housing boom going, by the way? Ours is going gangbusters! Wealth generation everywhere! Well, almost everywhere. As long as my tenants continue to give more in return for the same, everything will be just fine. If they can't afford to buy groceries or pay the utilities, that's their problem, not mine. And as long as my holdings in the major supermarkets and the utility companies keep paying dividends, I'll be doing very well, thankyou very much. Yep, history repeats. @@stewartellinson8846
There is a general irony that the management and unions at Triumph and BSA competed to see who were the most incompetent. When NVT acquired the manufacturing plants of BSA in Birmingham and Triumph in Meriden - the only smart thing the management did was a recommendation to consolidate manufacturing at Small Heath. This was taken badly by the unions who then went on strike in Coventry which led to a massive cash leak and a loss of sales. The unions were too blind to realise that closing one factory down could have saved the second. The management were too blind to realise they werent developing the right model of motor bike.
Before he passed away in 2002 my cousin had a 1953 Ariel Motorcycle with sidecar and i can remember being taken for a ride on that motorcycle. In the sidecar not the bike i mean.
By this point the only industry that fell apart after the war Ruairidh hasn't covered is the British Shipping Industry, which I somewhat expect to be covered at some point.
It will take a mini series to do that subject justice,the antics of the unions, inept management and incompetent government interference made for an industrial catastrophe! Very sad,I sometimes wonder whether the natives of this island have an inbuilt self destruct gene?
Great video, but maybe the role of India keeping BBritish brands - particularly Royal Enfield - which outsells everyone today - alive and even Bajaj's investment into Triumph would have been a nice addendum at the end
A depressingly accurate summary of what happened to the British motorcycle industry. Well done. I own a '67 T120. I've had that engine apart many times. One day, BINGO !, I realised that one of the mating surfaces between the crankcase halves hadn't been fully machined to give a perfectly true joint with the other. I guess the guy knocked off for tea and forgot to do the final pass when he came back. It is still a great ride though. The Japanese never managed to emulate the sheer charisma of a British twin or triple. But then they never had to, did they?
All the comments about how bad British motorcycle were might have some truth, my first motorcycle was a 200cc Tigre Cub, and yes it leaked, but i would buy a Vincent Black Shadow in preference of any other bike on the planet, and I am Italian.
There are exceptions though. Our neighbour used to start up his Ariel Leader every morning at 8am and come home at 5 on it regular as a clock work right from when I was 11 til when i left school. It was the 70s so it was already an old bike.
People on the board not wanting, and even being embarrassed by involvement in the motorcycle manufacturing business. A curious and not to mention outrageous situation. As mentioned in the video It's worth noting that the nations that were defeated came to be the powerhouses of vehicle construction postwar, while the victors founderd. Why? Well in my opinion we felt that we deserved to lead by defult, whereas the vanquished knew what it would take to rise again and what utter suffering and destruction truly meant.
I think this refers to BSA at the time a huge and diverse engineering group. In 1961 motorcycles only accounted for 30% of group activity. Many on the board and some of the big share holders wanted BSA out of motorcycle production, seeing it as dirty old fashioned form of transport often the people who rode them were seen as either inferior to car drivers or hooligans. Then there was also the label of child killer that was leveled at BSA and Triumph because of the amount of young man killed on their powerful machines. The reason BSA stayed in the motorcycle industry was profits were still good., right up until they missed the US selling season I 71
@@jasonhill4094 I see. Well it's an unfortunate state of affairs, not to mention poor business practice. A small proportion of sales it may of been but it seemed to be the death knell for BSA. Thanks for the informative advice though 👍
Liked the video some nice footage. A few facts you got wrong, BSA were far from idle in the development during the late 60s with creation of the development and design center at Umberslade Hall. They had been working on the development of Hopwood's modular bikes in addition to the Power set bikes ( facelift and a few new features of the existing line up). and the rotary engined bike as well as other group activity work. In fact it was delays in the Power set bikes that first brought about the crisis in 1971 when BSA missed the all import but very short US selling season. This plunged the entire group in a financial mess, requiring massive restructuring at Small heath. However by 73 BSA was back in profit but lacked the money for the new tooling for the forthcoming modular bikes, this is where things start to really take a turn for the worst. Barclay's bank who are now BSA's main creditor suggest that BSA apply for state aid. It is too long of a story to go into detail about the mess that the government make. However all of BSA's assets including its none motorcycle bussiness end up in the hands of Dennis Poore, the man at AMC, who as to be said and greatly reduced the brands at AMC but Norton was selling every bike it could build AJS had the stormer 2 strokes, they also had Coswoth working on a 4 cyl DOHC engine and best of all the engine that would have saved all 2 stroke bikes the stepped twingle engine the employed the cooling and fuel of a 4 stroke with the power and weight saving of a 2 stroke. Unfortunately Mr Poore's plans never had a chance due to his decision to close the Triumph factory at Meriden despite the fact that the factory could sell every bike it could build. The last full year of producion was under BSA in 73 were they built just under 30,000 bikes but demand was estimated to be just under twice that. Triumph would say they were hampered by a lack of parts been supplied by BSA and BSA said it was because of the continual state of industrial action at Meridan, the is but of both. After Poore visited the factory to anounce his intentions the workers at Meridain began a sit in at the factory that would last 2 years. This unfortunately would lead to the near total collapse of Triumph's US dealer network. When production finally resumed there was too few dealers left to support the factory and Triumph would have a slow death. A suggestion if I may? some excellent reading material, Giant of Smallheath, What ever happend to the British motorcycle industry by Bert Hopwood, this is by a man who worked as manager and chief designer at all the big British bike factories and is first hand eye witness account. All of Brad Jones's brilliant books about BSA in the final years well researched with with input from people like Steve Mattan who was responsible for much of the input into the Power set bikes at Umberslade Hall.
They had all the latest tech and CAD a first for a British motorcycle company, if the events of 71 had not have happened then Umberslade Hall would have gone on to great things. Brad Jones's book From the Inside, is an is a well researched book about Umberslade Hall, full of first hand experiences by people like Steve Matten, like all Brad's books on BSA during this period it is a brilliant well written and researched book.
@@jasonhull1342 What appears to be the best written and rearched book on BSA is Barry Ryerson'sThe Giants of Small Heath. He has this to say about Slumbergate Hall. "Umberslade Hall was expensive; the cost was officially put at around £1.5 million a years; and it produced astonishingly little that could be produced and sold. "
The best book about umberslade Hall is Brad One's book called from the inside, the book is dedicated to Umberslade Hall with interviews from people who either worked there or were associated with there, it also contains some never before seen photos. Giants of Smallheath is an excellent book but its subject is much broader than just Umberslade and the final few years at BSA
Yes the tale told by the people who worked there, many of whom knew little about motorbikes. People like Bert Hopwood an dDoug Hele, who did know about bikes, were rightly critical of the place and it's output.
The Triumph Trident and the BSA Rocket Three were not rushed through development, they took over three years. The four cylinder Honda 750 by comparison was introduced in just 9 months.
As an interesting twist today I think we are witnessing the collapse of the car manufacturing industry globally. And the reasons are complex. One of the failures is excessive technological complexity combining with massive pressure to reduce costs. And an excessive reliance on electronics which have a very short service life. Essentially consumers are being forced to buy machines that don't last and are uneconomic to repair. And the transition to EV isn't going to be successful either when excessive complexity and poor reliability impact on the product's ability to be fit for service.
The McCandless brothers would be worth a video of their own, motorcycles, 4x4s, cars and even autogyros! Some of their creations are in the Ulster Transport Museum, well worth a visit if ever you're near Belfast.
It didn't help that British tax policy led BSA to prefer giving out profits as dividends over reinvesting into product development and modern production machinery. Even when they did spend money on development all we got was the oil-in-frame design, which needed modification before the Triumph engine would even fit. Granted, that frame handled better than the old Triumph frames, but those lovely sculpted side covers were gone. They made similar styling mistakes with the triples.
I think this was summed up pretty well. It's sad to say that this complacency is to a point still a problem in some of todays industries. When the final realisation hits the management brains there is the usual we want this 'new thing' without saying what the 'new thing' is to be delivered in volume yesterday and sorry no one is available to work on it. Outsourcing can work if you have clear requirements that are not available and sufficient due diligence is done for the effort but from experience this starts far too late. Short term profit modifying existing products over and over again works OK for a limited time but limits what can be done at a cost effective way. Investment is needed for completely new products to run in tandem with existing ones.
At least some of the motorcycle brands managed something British car brands MG and Rover and also the iconic Mini couldn't, re-emerge as proper UK manufactured brands. And while on the expensive side the new models have the same appeal as the iconic old models of these brands had, also build quality is much better now, you don't need a bag of tools in case you break down.
I was chatting to some bikers in the USA and one told me: "We really liked British bikes. Okay, not so much the oil leaks and constant maintenance. BUT there was one thing... common to all British motorcycles. LUCAS, the Prince Of Darkness. And we could not put up with that. So, Lucas and its shitty products were the cause of the death of the British motorcycle industry.
Having now watched the whole video (always best practice) I think we should give him a bye. He did correctly refer to BSA as Birmingham Small Arms further into the piece. He most likely just mispoke. Still a good catch though, if premature.
Did a tour around the Triumph Meriden factory in 1980. It was sad to see, it looked like time had stood still in there since the early 50s. You felt like you were in an old black and white photo in real life. It was obvious that no investment or modernization had taken place in decades, I felt like saying, shall i just turn the lights off when i leave.
There are so many instances of the bike buying public being used as unpaid developement engineers. I know, I was there. Ariel 3. of course but what about BSA Dandy. Airiel Pixie, Norton Jubilee, Triumph Tina, Tigress etc. I suffered a Pixie, until I palmed it off on an unsuspecting car dealer in exchange for a Yamaha 80. What a revelation!
When I was young I wanted to ride a motorbike before I changed my mind about it and I don’t drive at the moment but I still think that cars are lot safer to use.
Many thanks for another excellent documentary. Lack of investment, lack of production approaches, to arrogant, to slow and bad management killed off another British Engineering capability. Brits do well at design and at the small cottage type industry, but cannot compete at the large industrial level. I believe, everyone gets caught up with the brand and fails to understand and apply the boring bits of scale production and being globally competitive in time. Really look forward to more. History of Vauxhall cars? what about British Aero Engines?
Management within the motor industry seems to reflect the same attitudes people are suffering under current Members of Parliament from Westminster. I wonder if they all went to the same universities?
It's all a series that's summed up by the Pink Floyd track Not Now John, off the 1984 album The Final Cut. Sadly as an English man I too have witnessed and partaken in this catastrophic malaise.
The Vincent. Handsome engine (HRD) let down by an archaic frame, visually anyway although I don't know how it handled because I've never ridden one. Although aesthetically girder forks don't fill me with desire.
I took a rapide for a while (the twins went in order of tune: rapide, black shadow, and black lightning) and apart from the novel riding position (up high and quite foward: I'm 6' 2" but that shouldn't have mattered) I'm afraid I can't comment on the handling as I was petrified of doing anything untoward on someone else's rather pricey icon. I did get the impression why they were a legend in their own lifetime: it felt next level. When you consider Russell Wright took his road going black lightning to the world record of 185mph on a rather skinny public road it really says a lot. I still dream of a brough ss100 though
Always a biker in Essex , now in Gaianes Spain have a nearly complete Suzuki gsx600f too heavy for me at 79 & the niw retired garage owner ( building still his ) is looking for a 250 to swap , even have a blunt ceremonial sword a Katana , not many brit bikes here , in the now not published Motos Classicas 300 free ads with some brit bikes 2 noddy bikes €1,400 , my late dad had the now rare Douglas Dragonfly !
"Despite XXX millions in government subsidy, they only produced..." *Despite* ? Compare and contrast with that long list of British companies producing quality bikes today that people actually want to buy - without government subsidy - and ponder the possibility that the government subsidies allowed the companies to ossify rather than address their issues incrementally _before_ the Japanese came and took their market.
Most of the British motorcycle brands are either own by Indian companies or have a partnership with them Norton is now owned by TVS motors , Royal Enfield is a now an Indian motorcycle brand , BSA is a subsidiary of Mahendra motors and Triumph has partnership with Bajaj - KTM !!!
Between ups urgent developing world competition and environmental issues motorcycles are a thing of the past. The future is Morris Dancing so we can attract and entertain tourists to our eccentric small island. Teach your children well! Sincerely, A. Patriot
War Reparations, New Factories with New Production Machinery in Germany, Italy, and Japan, so designs done in Britain were sent to those Countries to Shaft the People who had fought and won the War. 😡 The British government was the Major Share holder of the Fiat, Alfa, Ferrari, Vespa, Lambretta Group, when the big Strike hit Milan in the 1970’s, Callaghan sold the Controlling interest in it. Shortly after, Lambretta moved to Spain, and eventually ended up in India. I used to work for Thorn EMI and got their annual Share book. The Stuff they owned or shared ownership in, was staggering. Example - RCA Victor, partnered with them for Japanese Victor Corporation, or JVC . Cars, Motorcycles, electronics, TV’s you name it, all came in at rock bottom prices to kill off Domestic Competition. The most advanced TV in the World in the 1970’s ? The Ferguson TX, built in the first fully automated production facility in Southampton. Sold cheap to French idiots sadly. But but but EEC ! Screw Them, they have all really Screwed Us. 😡
A story applicable to ANY industry in ANY country whose politicians and investors have _spent too little_ on its future STEM skills. It joins the Third World.
When Britain lead the industrial revolution, our best people were at the forefront and started the motorcycle industry. By the 1950s-60s there were a multitude of other industries to attract the best talent from nuclear, aviation, materials / chemicals to electronics and computing. Many of these industries are linked to defence. Germany, Italy and Japan were militarily restrained after WW2, so their best people would work in non-military related industries such as designing better motorcycles and motorcycle production lines.
The biggest thing Britain don't know what to do is market a brilliant product .Even though the British motorbike was doomed .the great names are still in huge.demand ... !
What's the bike at the 3:00 mark? Foot clutch so American, Rh shifter and front brake so Indian, but what appears to be Rh throttle? Wla Harley's were lh tank shift Rh throttle and lh front brake, so it more matches an army Indian. Maybe the army reversed the throttle and advance?
From late 40s car excise duty was at a flat rate, first £10, then £12.50, £15 and so on. So if a bike was £50 cheaper... Below 150cc was 17/6. Sidecar was extra. The above is a matter of record, but if the film narrator is so wrong with easily checked fact it could be his explanation of our bike makers' failure is convenient drivel too. Bike sales dropped in 1930s relative to 20s because middle class boys recognised poor value. In 1950s Vespa and Lambretta were far less trouble than our 150s. We didn't make 250s till L plate restriction began 1960 and RE excepted ours were fairly miserable. Norton Jubilee or Honda? That was designed by the clown who blames 'Management'. Count joints in engines. Not many in a Ford, many in a Triumph and ill secured. Villiers knew, made utility engine with one casting for cylinder and crankcase. They sold 2 million plus engines because passable, marinised as Seagull, it is still used as useful, noone in their right mind wants our posh bike engines. Look at the Amal, air leaks idling with worn body and sliding throttle - compare Dellorto: it has no slack because the spring slants pushing throttle firmly against engine side of body. That was drawing office not management.
In those days, Uk bike manufacturers, considered any company producing better bikes than the British ones didn't exist. They had to leak , have no modern turn signals or any other innovation. British to them was the best. They were stuck in an era, an refused to move with the times. So the writing was on the wall. Even Triumph once they were revived, started producing modern bikes, using all the techniques other countries (especially Japan) had brought in...
Indeed the 70s and 80s were a tough time for the English industry. From bikes, to cars, and planes every single time they would fail for reasons I still don't understand.
This isn't just mismanagement of an industry. --It is a palpable hatred of their own motorbike industry, starting as it usually does, with leaders & the managers of these failing companies that actually feel disgusted with their own industry! So, yes, it was soon felt by the customers who bought fewer & fewer of these steadily less competitive products which were suffering from poor engineering all the way down the line from initial engineering to the final assembly, making excuse after excuse for why they could not compete! It must have been awful to work for such a company. I know, as I once worked for GM decades ago and they were filled with refusal to recognize their own inability to compete, and a palpable, easy to see and experience hatred and bizarre distrust of anyone who even liked cars or wanted to compete. But they were WOKE, making sure to advance people who often not qualified and fire those who were qualified if they weren't the right race or sex or woke attitude. It was incredible, shocking, & disgusting...
BSA wasn't the British Small Arms company, B stood for Birmingham. btw, if anyone wants a really in depth analysis of the collapse, someone did their PhD on it and it's available online. What do you mean Britain's winding, dark and uneven road surfaces AT THE TIME? They're not very good now! AMC was not acquired by BSA in 1966, they were bought by Manganese-Bronze Holdings, and operated as Norton-Villiers.
I bet our presenter does have a clue about the actual conditions of the UK's roads in WW2. Wi fi g, yes, dark, well that's a given thanks to the black-out. Uneven? Who knows, but as the roads were vital to the war effort I bet they were well kept.
The money for investing in motorcycle production came from where it always does - The City of London. Why they chose Asia, Germany and Italy over England post World War II leaves them open to conspiracy theories.
The simple truth is no conspiracy, it's down to economics. In Japan and the rest of the Far East demand for motorcycles is huge they buy motorcycles by the millions rather that 10s or 100s of thousands here in the West. This means that when Japanese company approach a bank with the intention of acquiring a loan, not was the loan more likely to be granted but it would also be at a much lower interest rate. Where in Britain if a motorcycle company tried to get finance the chances of success would be at best low and successful the interest rate would be high and length of the pay back short. Only BSA could borrow money and then usually because of their wide engineering interests.
@@jasonhill4094 Logically speaking I was actually talking about 1946, 1947 onwards. There was no large market for motorcycles in Asia at the time. However the Venture capitalists started gradually withholding funds from ALL English industry. After 20 years most of it was dust.
@@Lyingleyen You could have a point despite having one of the biggest banking industries in the world, our banks hate lending money to industry and manufacturing in particular. A lot of British money was hidden in places like Hong-Kong during the high taxation years, Money that would be used to transform China.
British motorcycles had european quality,but were considered temperamental by people who rode motorcycles,they usually had small mechanical flaws that if not fixed asap,would lead to other mechanical issues,whereas asian bikes usually required minimal attention for reliable operation.
Why someone be in charge of company have no interest in what the company makes? You should at least have people under you that are interested, then they can make the right decisions and keep the business profitable.
Ha ha ha ....who won the war fellas? All British OHC motors were assembled in the race shop, Honda turned an OHC motor into the world's biggest selling motorcycle and still in production today CT90 et al
Que all the 'If only...could have...would have...unfortunately..." excuses. The UK bike industry committed suicide. Old designs, old factories, old ideas and lots of tired people. The same in almost every industry.
On a whole: Good riddance. Hate bikes. Hate being wet. Hate being cold. Hate leather. Car. The End. I almost forgot the girly hair-don't required to ride a bike.
People will put two and two together and conclude that the blame for this lay with Labour (under Wilson) - as they were in power for most of the 1960's. But the rot started in the early 1950's..... when, surprise surprise, the Tories were in power, under Winston Churchill. The lesson from this film, is that generally, the Tories do not invest in British industry, but seek to shrink it by 'asset stripping' it. They did this most notably during the 1980's. But people forget that they began doing this in the 1950's first under Churchill, and then later on under Macmillan. It's Labour who invest in British industries - they proved this in the second half of the 1940's, the 60's, and the 00's. Meanwhile the Tories seeked to sell bits of it off at ludicrously low prices to foreign owned companies. The Tories have always been like this and always will be in the future. So although the Motorcycle industry died under Labour, most of the destruction of it was carried under the Tory governments of Churchill, Eden, Macmillan, and latterly, Heath. By the time Thatcher became PM, the British motorcycle industry was all but finished. So the Tories turned their attention to the Mining industry instead. The rest as they say, is history.
More pits closed under Labour than the CONservatives, Labour did not crown themselves in glory either re British Shipbuilding or consolidation of steelmaking, especially in the Sheffield area. That said I loathe the Legacy Political class in its entirety, their membership of the Fabian Society on both sides of the House will tell you all you need to know regarding their real agenda and where their loyalties really lay. However I do not disagree with the content of your post. This country has been deliberately deindustrialized and deliberately de skilled and all from within.
As far as the japanese are concerned Honda single handedly almost destroyed the british motorcycle industry....then came Yamaha,Suzuki and Kawaski which between them obliterated the british companies.
In order to have done that they would have to have reduced demand for British bikes, the irony is damand increased during this period. As for the Japanese they redeemed the image of motorcycling, turning it from a dirty old fashioned form of transport often ridden by hooligans to a clean sensible and recreational past time ridden by a much larger demographic
@@jasonhill4094 what was the slgons Honda had ...."you meet the nicest people on a Honda"......and "a 100,000 peolpe can't be wrong"....and obviously the british bike industry didnt go away completley but as far as reliability,social image and acceptence by the average person,then yes the japanese did destroy the british bike industry so my piont stands.
@@jaws666 like I said in order for the Japanese to have been responsible for the British motorcycle industries demise, then they would have had to have taken sales away from them, but demand for British bikes was outstripping supply during the late 60s early 70s. The last year of production for the Norton Commando demand had never been higher but NVT was in financial trouble due to the loss of 2 years Triumph production at Meriden,.
@@jasonhill4094in the uk the demand for british bikes may still have been healthy but worldwide they fell in comparison to the sales the japanese achived and as far as the NVT situation is concerned im well aware of that...and speaking of NVT their "Tracker" trail bike was mostly a straight up copy of the Yamaha DT trail bike.
4.44 'The Mods were a motorcycle gang'. And with that simple faux pas all credibility and expectation this is someone on top of their subject goes out the window. Shame, as some of the old film footage is great........... But after that I took the narrative with absolute scepticism. [Disambiguation: Mods rode Scooters NOT motorcyles in the normal sense of of the term]
To me, it was one single little thing: Horsepower per ccm/litre. Japan and Italy made England look like pieces of total utter shite. So, basically the exact same thing as to me killed the English car industry. Mini, 1 Litre, 34 hp, Daihatsu, 900 cc, 98 (!) hp. To this day I have a rule, either 100 hp per litre or at the very very least 1 hp per cubic inch displacement. You don't reach that, you are a loser.
@@OldSonyMan husqvarana of Sweden (now owend by cagiva of Italy) also started out as a weapons and gun maker LONG before they started making motorcycles....and when they were bought out by Cagiva (or at least the motorcycle division of the company) most of the design team left and formed a new motorcycle company......Husaberg
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Britain's ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory never ceases to amaze me. Literally every time it's the same story.
Try being Australian. The British look downright victorious. 🙄
Not exactly the same each time, as different industries died for different reasons; case in point being the aircraft industry, which declined due to government interference (at times even outright sabotage, as Handley Page in particular experienced), while Shipbuilding & the Cotton Mills was chiefly due to the trade unions stifling all serious efforts to modernise.
As one bloke puts it: "Once we were first, now we're the worst."
Either the moneyed class has its way - or . . . . (and you would never have caught them on two wheels, anyway). 💬
It is generally better for engineers to *_manage_* engineering companies than financiers. You would think it obvious, perhaps. But it is less obvious to a financier, obviously.
@richardxiong5016 Less so now though 🙂 .
For the worst we only need to point to China 😂
‘Complacency and mismanagement’.
Two words which sum up post-war post imperial British manufacturing.
Of course when industry fails the management, who pretend to hate government interference, suddenly blame ‘lack of government support’.
They thought they where going to rule the world, so they didn't look to improve too much. German, French, Italians, Japanese... well, they did.
And everyone blames the unions. By the way, I'm not a union man, but it's the same story time and time again, everywhere. When management and government start blaming unions, you know that the management and governance has made grave mistakes.
@@davidbrayshaw3529 Too right. My great Uncle worked in the Amal (of carburettor fame) offices.
I asked him how I might improve my bike's carburation and not only did he not have a clue how carbs operated, he was slightly insulted I should expect him, white collar person, to know how 'the oily bits' worked. *In Japan that attitude would have seen folk sacked* ........ Join the dots.
@@babboon5764 The Japanese production systems after the War (based on the Deming system which was ignored in the West) involved amongst other things encouraging people at every level of the organisation to suggest improvements to the product and to the manufacturing process. One of the results of this was their ability to produce a range of products from a fairly small manufacturing base. Japan is hierarchical, but they had the sense to treat their people as assets, rather than costs.
‘Complacency and mismanagement’. You took the words out of my mouth. Bert Hopwood had plenty of innovative, modular designs that could have excited the motorcycle-buying public but by then it was too late - the money had run out.
All British manufacturing, Motorcycles, Automobiles and Aircraft went down the same plughole. Sad.
Indeed, we are seeing the same trend in the US as well…😞
Kind of. Cars & Aerospace were lost to Political interference, whereas the Motorbike industry was largely its own victim.
you forgot trains
@micahthedrumcorpspseudoboo7250 Not really. Trains went down the same drain as Aircraft; politicians thinking they knew how to regulate, and then how to run things (spoiler: they didn't).
No company operates in a vacuum, the environment they are in as the biggest effect on if they are successful, look at British industry and business today weighed down with excessive taxation and regulation, while totally exposed to cheaper competition from abroad. The problem is we keep voting for incompetent and corrupt group of largely middle class politicians from a legal and journalistic background.
I had a 1969 Trident, it leaked oil from day 1 it never started reliably even when I fitted Boyer ignition, it broke rear chains. Then a friend bought a new CB750 which I test rode. I was instantly converted and bought one, 5 speed, electric start, disc brake and best of all no oil leaks which my girlfriend loved, meaning we arrived as clean as when we left!
Had a mate with a Trident. He said its best feature was that it had an automatic oil level warning system. It told you when it was time to put some oil in because it stopped dripping ...
Some years ago , about 20 , I was working for a motorcycle shop in Sydney ( Australia ) . On the showroom floor we had a Honda CB750 and a Triumph Bonneville. Both from the same year , 1969 , but the Triumph looked like it was from several decades prior .
Aren't these minor niggles what real bikers call "character"? 😇
Minor niggles for some bewitching for others a . . . .@@peter7624
"We were the first, now we're the worst." This is basically the truth for a lot of what Brittan got involved in.
*Brittan ? Surely **_Great Britain_** !*
Britain also!
management who were ashamed to be involved with motorbikes. Sums it up really. Indian Royal Enfield boss now requires all management to have a Royal Enfield motorbike to ride as their transport. Very different ethos indeed.
That's a very good thing as it help understand the problem and the scope of improvement of the product within the management !!! . That's why Royal Enfield sells fun and happiness !!!
Yes, rather different from Lord Docker and his wife. They just wanted the money and the prestige.
Complacency, being cocky and thinking you are superior to your competitors when the fact is that you really aren´t, can be extremely dangerous. British car- and motorcycle industry had to learn that in the hard way in the 1960s and 1970s
Those large inline twin cylinder British bikes had issues with vibrations.
I had a Kawasaki 750 twin when I gave a ride to a fellow motorcyclist with a disabled bike one day, he was amazed at the smoothness of the 750 twin I had, as his previous experience was with the Triumph twin, where he told me that twin design would vibrate.
the story of the Japanese resurgence after their utter defeat in 1945 is a story in its own right. It almost seems like the empire of japans ambitions did in the end lead to Japan being a world leader. They just had to suffer a while first and learn that conquest was not the way to go
A teacher of mine in 1971 had an Arial 3. From her reaction every time she used it, she absolutely hated the thing.
It was a joke on 3 wheels which shamed the once great Ariel company.
The British motorcycle industry was not the biggest motorcycle industry in the world prior to the Japanese, it was the German motorcycle industry with NSU alone building over 200,000 bikes a year. They were the most advanced. Yet by the 70s only an handful of manufactures remained. Yet their technology was extensively used by the Japanese. All their 2cstrokes are of German design and the basis of the 4 stroke technology is German and Italian. A good book worth reading is German motorcycles by Mick Walker he gives a good account of the many German companies
My East German car built in 1988 has an engine that was developed from the pre war DKW two stroke engines. It gives 26hp from 595cc running on 50:1 petrol.
Yes, and ironically the design of the most produced British bike, the BSA Bantam was pinched from a German manufacturer, DKW.
@@hereandthere4763 that's interesting to know!
There was a great deal of loyalty amongst existing owners of British bikes but they did nothing to build new customers. I remember "The nicest people (ride a Honda)" campaign with its clean, quiet, easy to ride bikes with electric starts ensured that a new type of customer went entirely Japanese. The belated introduction of the Rocket 3/Trident to the dwindling number of hardcore British bikers seemed even at the time like the last gasp, and by comparison to the 750 Honda they seemed horribly dated.
As ever, a sequence of events which leaves you genuinely convinced that nobody actually wanted to succeed, and nothing was taken seriously.
I remember stripping my first Japanese bike after a lifetime of owning British bikes, and marvelling at the jewel-like appearance of the clutch and gears etc.so precise and well made.
I used to have a 1971 BSA 650 Lightning. Always had to carry my pockets full of tools and spare spark plugs 😒
Motorcycle buyers are some of the most brand-loyal customers that even existed, but when your product is so bad that even they begin to wonder about that, you're done for. The death of the British motorcycle industry is a complex subject and is filed with examples of glaring errors going unaddressed and of mistakes being compounded on top of previous mistakes until collapse was inevitable. There's a lot written on this and it's sad to those of us who loved those bikes and saw them fade into oblivion. Nearly every feature and improvement on the motorcycle was a British idea but almost none of them saw their main success in British hands.
My understanding there was a lot of head in the sand and arrogance, which was the same in the car world. I can remember seeing an interview with sir Roger Moore when they were looking for a car for the Saint they approached British manufacturers as they thought that would show loyalty and be very British for him. why would we be interested in doing that for you, Was the reply ! you can pay full market price for it -despite giving it free advertising , oh and go to the back of the line , as we can sell every car we make. Volvo on the other hand was very keen to be involved. Saw the benefit and gave a P 1800 at very good terms, the rest was history. The P 1800 and Volvo would go on to be very much more popular than I suspect it would have been was it not for the very public promotion and dashing image provided by Roger Moore in the Saint
@@malcolmwhite6588 In the US, back in the 1970s my neighbor had a P 1800, it was a nice car.
@@bloqk16 yes I nearly brought one in the late 80s early 90s - it wasn’t price too bad I wish I had. It would be worth a fortune now LOL they were lovely cars and Roger Moore said he always enjoyed driving them and that the Volvo people were super nice to deal with
Interestingly that the "three main " fails to mention AMC (AJS, Matchless, James, Francis barnett and, later, Norton). Norton's financial difficulties were not down to the development of the "featherbed" but to it's outdated production facilities and lack of pre-war investment.
A good read is a canadian academic Steve Korner's study "the strange death of the British motorcycle industry" which notes that even in the pre war period, UK manufacturers had retreated from the mass market small bike market so that the high value, high cost bikes that they focused on became vulnerable.
Being realistic, it's likely that the British industry would have collapsed in the fifties or sixties had the war not intervened. The industry did invest in machinery - in the early 1950s, AMC spent 1.5 million on new tooling - but invested to build the same old - pushrod, vertically split crankcase, seperate engine & gearbox - models. it's probably too simplistic to see the collapse of the british industry as a post-war thing and I'd strongly recommend Korner's work in which he traces the roots of failure back into the 1930s.
I found Korner to be confused parts of his book are very good but he claims the British motorcycle industry lacked a small lightweight bike yet BSA had the bantam and Villiers supplied engines to many a British motorcycle company.
@@jasonhull1342 what he does is show that the British industry de-emphasised smaller machines and put less development time and money onto them. The Bantam is a case in point - they got that from DKW and it underwent little development over it's life, taking ages to gain a 4th gear and never getting automatic oiling or 12v electrics. Villiers were similar and it's telling that the British manufacturers relied on external suppliers - villiers - and didn't develope their own engines, except for the AMC piatti failure which was essentially an attempt to do villiers on the cheap. None of the British factories built ranges from the bottom and none of them tried to create mass market "consumer durables" for the commuter.
Imagining a post war environment in Britain's motorcycle industry, without the war, is difficult. There are just so many variables that the war brought with it in the terms of technology, global wealth distribution, treaties and trends, that it is almost impossible to predict a "what if" scenario.
Clearly, a lack of investment in the motorcycle industry was a post war trend. But it is arguable that this trend didn't start post war, but rather pre war. And it is arguable that this lack of investment wasn't contained to motorcycles, but it was rather much a hangover from the depression and a hubris that comes following such a prolonged and sustained position at "the top" throughout the industrial revolution.
Whether we like it or not, the USA hit the 20th century running, by comparison to Britain. They had mastered the assembly line and mass manufacturing. And they had mastered an economy in which markets grew (they forgot about that, 40 years ago!). Britain didn't respond. Same old, same old. Same old production techniques, same old management of the economy.
My own grandfather was a reasonably wealthy wool merchant in Yorkshire. Prior to the war, his pride and joy was a Brough Superior. At the same time, the likes of his employees in the USA, were driving cars. And no, I don't have the Brough!
Yes, I'm stating that to get a bit of a boast in about my families status, nearly a hundred years ago. And I'm using an anecdote that should appeal to motorcyclists. But I'm also using that anecdote to draw a picture of just how far behind the eight ball Britain was rapidly becoming, by that time.
You are obviously very well versed in the post war history of Britain's bike industry. I hope that I've given you something to ponder in relation to that.
@@davidbrayshaw3529 You're right about the performance of the British economy in the early 20th century, although it's worth remebering that there were depressions in the UK back in the 1890s and a real concern pre-WW1 that we were "losing out" to the USA and Germany. I always point out that Britain was "the workshop of the world", not the factory. That tells you about the scale of British industry, workshop based, artisanal production. Whilst it's true we did move to production line assembly, the motorcycle industry was too small to do this in a meaningful way. They lacked the capital to invest in major production line facilities, very much focused on in-house manufacture (workshop of the world again) and shareholders were keen to ensure that dividends were paid, rather than be reinvested.
The result of this was that British factories tended to move towards more high value products, not commuter bikes, hence the "segmented retreat" from the small bike market which started early on, pre war.
In all fairness, the 1890's depression was global, not just isolated to Britain. And it followed a string of "boom bust" cycles that were rather much a feature of advanced economies in the 18th and 19th century. A little off subject, but I am still staggered today that there has been such a push over the last 40 years from conservatives with a will to return the world's economies back to as they were at this time.
It is interesting to learn that Britain was concerned about "losing out" to advancing economies, in the early twentieth century. I have a vision of complacency at that time, fuelled by substantial wealth in the ruling classes and a steady diet of produce from the colonies, one of in which I live, Australia. If the likes of the USA and Germany were the factories of the world and Britain was the workshop, we were the shearing shed, and little more, at that time.
It is often reported that the demise of the British bike industry was due to a lack of investment post war, for the reasons that you mention. A former employer of mine actually did his B.A. thesis on that very subject. And while that is certainly the case, in my opinion, the chronology is somewhat skewed
to fit a narrative that focuses a little to much on the advantages that Germany, Japan and the USA had, post war, rather than the lack of investment
and development in Britain, pre war. For that, I find fault in that it fails to accurately portray in full the economic mismanagement of Britain throughout the entire 20th century
Britain was the unrivalled leader in technology in the 18th and 19th century. In addition to this it was also home to a disproportionate number of highly skilled trades people. This did not change as Britain entered the 20th century. What did change was the value that was placed on such people, and, as a consequence, there was a failure to invest in endeavours that drew from this pool of talent. An unintended consequence of this was that
this neglect failed to enrich and create a large untapped market. The likes of the USA, however, during the same period realised the potential wealth that could be drawn from this market and took full opportunity to capitalise on it. The USA realised that the if they could make more people with money, they could make more money from people. Of course, that thinking would change as we neared the end of the century but it had been the recipe for economic success in the years prior.
I realise that I'm starting to sound like a closet communist or similar. I'm not. I'm far from it actually. And I'm not a unionist either! But populist history points the finger of economic demise in Britain at the working classes and their God forsaken unions and incessant pay demands. But the truth of the matter is that by this stage, a century or more of keeping this group on the poverty line was a dire mistake. They were potential demand that was never realised. And it was a lot of unrealised demand. It was this in combination with the will of CEO's to write dividend cheques rather than invest in plant that hurt Britain so badly. But the history has never been written that way. The "winners" win the right to write the history. It has always been thus. And history repeats.
How's your housing boom going, by the way? Ours is going gangbusters! Wealth generation everywhere! Well, almost everywhere. As long as my tenants continue to give more in return for the same, everything will be just fine. If they can't afford to buy groceries or pay the utilities, that's their problem, not mine. And as long as my holdings in the major supermarkets and the utility companies keep paying dividends, I'll be doing very well, thankyou very much. Yep, history repeats.
@@stewartellinson8846
There is a general irony that the management and unions at Triumph and BSA competed to see who were the most incompetent. When NVT acquired the manufacturing plants of BSA in Birmingham and Triumph in Meriden - the only smart thing the management did was a recommendation to consolidate manufacturing at Small Heath. This was taken badly by the unions who then went on strike in Coventry which led to a massive cash leak and a loss of sales.
The unions were too blind to realise that closing one factory down could have saved the second. The management were too blind to realise they werent developing the right model of motor bike.
Before he passed away in 2002 my cousin had a 1953 Ariel Motorcycle with sidecar and i can remember being taken for a ride on that motorcycle. In the sidecar not the bike i mean.
Amazing to see how the Brits lost out in planes cars and bikes. Thank you Ruaridh, great narration as usual.
By this point the only industry that fell apart after the war Ruairidh hasn't covered is the British Shipping Industry, which I somewhat expect to be covered at some point.
How, in only a few years, Britain went from having the largest merchant fleet to one of the smallest.
It will take a mini series to do that subject justice,the antics of the unions, inept management and incompetent government interference made for an industrial catastrophe!
Very sad,I sometimes wonder whether the natives of this island have an inbuilt self destruct gene?
I think it has to do with the tribe that Oliver Cromwell let in after being banished for several centuries.
@@android584 the same tribe that... rebuilt Germany and Japan into the top 5 largest economies on the planet?
Great video, but maybe the role of India keeping BBritish brands - particularly Royal Enfield - which outsells everyone today - alive and even Bajaj's investment into Triumph would have been a nice addendum at the end
Wow! Trains, Planes, automobiles AND motorcycles Rory! 😂Many thanks as ever ☘️🙏
A depressingly accurate summary of what happened to the British motorcycle industry. Well done.
I own a '67 T120. I've had that engine apart many times. One day, BINGO !, I realised that one of the mating surfaces between the crankcase halves hadn't been fully machined to give a perfectly true joint with the other. I guess the guy knocked off for tea and forgot to do the final pass when he came back.
It is still a great ride though. The Japanese never managed to emulate the sheer charisma of a British twin or triple. But then they never had to, did they?
All the comments about how bad British motorcycle were might have some truth, my first motorcycle was a 200cc Tigre Cub, and yes it leaked, but i would buy a Vincent Black Shadow in preference of any other bike on the planet, and I am Italian.
The world preferred Japanese motorcycle charisma to British motorcycle charisma. Miracle of convenience Honda Cub.
There are exceptions though. Our neighbour used to start up his Ariel Leader every morning at 8am and come home at 5 on it regular as a clock work right from when I was 11 til when i left school. It was the 70s so it was already an old bike.
Yes, the motorcycle industry triumphed in destroying their own industry.
It wasn’t just triumph. It was all the brands.
@@malcolmwhite6588 yup
Rory's other channel - Tactical Situation -is highly recommended.
People on the board not wanting, and even being embarrassed by involvement in the motorcycle manufacturing business. A curious and not to mention outrageous situation. As mentioned in the video It's worth noting that the nations that were defeated came to be the powerhouses of vehicle construction postwar, while the victors founderd. Why? Well in my opinion we felt that we deserved to lead by defult, whereas the vanquished knew what it would take to rise again and what utter suffering and destruction truly meant.
I think this refers to BSA at the time a huge and diverse engineering group. In 1961 motorcycles only accounted for 30% of group activity. Many on the board and some of the big share holders wanted BSA out of motorcycle production, seeing it as dirty old fashioned form of transport often the people who rode them were seen as either inferior to car drivers or hooligans. Then there was also the label of child killer that was leveled at BSA and Triumph because of the amount of young man killed on their powerful machines. The reason BSA stayed in the motorcycle industry was profits were still good., right up until they missed the US selling season I 71
@@jasonhill4094 I see. Well it's an unfortunate state of affairs, not to mention poor business practice. A small proportion of sales it may of been but it seemed to be the death knell for BSA. Thanks for the informative advice though 👍
My welding instructor mentioned that the steel industry also was able to start with new equipment and so made better steel and steel alloys. Ronn
@@ronnronn55 a new broom sweeps clean.
Liked the video some nice footage. A few facts you got wrong, BSA were far from idle in the development during the late 60s with creation of the development and design center at Umberslade Hall. They had been working on the development of Hopwood's modular bikes in addition to the Power set bikes ( facelift and a few new features of the existing line up). and the rotary engined bike as well as other group activity work. In fact it was delays in the Power set bikes that first brought about the crisis in 1971 when BSA missed the all import but very short US selling season. This plunged the entire group in a financial mess, requiring massive restructuring at Small heath. However by 73 BSA was back in profit but lacked the money for the new tooling for the forthcoming modular bikes, this is where things start to really take a turn for the worst. Barclay's bank who are now BSA's main creditor suggest that BSA apply for state aid. It is too long of a story to go into detail about the mess that the government make. However all of BSA's assets including its none motorcycle bussiness end up in the hands of Dennis Poore, the man at AMC, who as to be said and greatly reduced the brands at AMC but Norton was selling every bike it could build AJS had the stormer 2 strokes, they also had Coswoth working on a 4 cyl DOHC engine and best of all the engine that would have saved all 2 stroke bikes the stepped twingle engine the employed the cooling and fuel of a 4 stroke with the power and weight saving of a 2 stroke. Unfortunately Mr Poore's plans never had a chance due to his decision to close the Triumph factory at Meriden despite the fact that the factory could sell every bike it could build. The last full year of producion was under BSA in 73 were they built just under 30,000 bikes but demand was estimated to be just under twice that. Triumph would say they were hampered by a lack of parts been supplied by BSA and BSA said it was because of the continual state of industrial action at Meridan, the is but of both. After Poore visited the factory to anounce his intentions the workers at Meridain began a sit in at the factory that would last 2 years. This unfortunately would lead to the near total collapse of Triumph's US dealer network. When production finally resumed there was too few dealers left to support the factory and Triumph would have a slow death. A suggestion if I may? some excellent reading material, Giant of Smallheath, What ever happend to the British motorcycle industry by Bert Hopwood, this is by a man who worked as manager and chief designer at all the big British bike factories and is first hand eye witness account. All of Brad Jones's brilliant books about BSA in the final years well researched with with input from people like Steve Mattan who was responsible for much of the input into the Power set bikes at Umberslade Hall.
They had all the latest tech and CAD a first for a British motorcycle company, if the events of 71 had not have happened then Umberslade Hall would have gone on to great things.
Brad Jones's book From the Inside, is an is a well researched book about Umberslade Hall, full of first hand experiences by people like Steve Matten, like all Brad's books on BSA during this period it is a brilliant well written and researched book.
@@jasonhull1342 What appears to be the best written and rearched book on BSA is Barry Ryerson'sThe Giants of Small Heath. He has this to say about Slumbergate Hall. "Umberslade Hall was expensive; the cost was officially put at around £1.5 million a years; and it produced astonishingly little that could be produced and sold. "
The best book about umberslade Hall is Brad One's book called from the inside, the book is dedicated to Umberslade Hall with interviews from people who either worked there or were associated with there, it also contains some never before seen photos. Giants of Smallheath is an excellent book but its subject is much broader than just Umberslade and the final few years at BSA
That should say Brad Jones
Yes the tale told by the people who worked there, many of whom knew little about motorbikes. People like Bert Hopwood an dDoug Hele, who did know about bikes, were rightly critical of the place and it's output.
The Triumph Trident and the BSA Rocket Three were not rushed through development, they took over three years. The four cylinder Honda 750 by comparison was introduced in just 9 months.
Interesting to note that “The Wild One” was banned in U.K. until 1968!!!!
As an interesting twist today I think we are witnessing the collapse of the car manufacturing industry globally. And the reasons are complex. One of the failures is excessive technological complexity combining with massive pressure to reduce costs. And an excessive reliance on electronics which have a very short service life. Essentially consumers are being forced to buy machines that don't last and are uneconomic to repair. And the transition to EV isn't going to be successful either when excessive complexity and poor reliability impact on the product's ability to be fit for service.
Very informative
The McCandless brothers would be worth a video of their own, motorcycles, 4x4s, cars and even autogyros! Some of their creations are in the Ulster Transport Museum, well worth a visit if ever you're near Belfast.
Nice presentation! How do you pronounce your name?
Thank you Rory!
Wow. Perfect summary and format. Impressed as always.
It didn't help that British tax policy led BSA to prefer giving out profits as dividends over reinvesting into product development and modern production machinery.
Even when they did spend money on development all we got was the oil-in-frame design, which needed modification before the Triumph engine would even fit. Granted, that frame handled better than the old Triumph frames, but those lovely sculpted side covers were gone.
They made similar styling mistakes with the triples.
I think this was summed up pretty well. It's sad to say that this complacency is to a point still a problem in some of todays industries. When the final realisation hits the management brains there is the usual we want this 'new thing' without saying what the 'new thing' is to be delivered in volume yesterday and sorry no one is available to work on it. Outsourcing can work if you have clear requirements that are not available and sufficient due diligence is done for the effort but from experience this starts far too late. Short term profit modifying existing products over and over again works OK for a limited time but limits what can be done at a cost effective way. Investment is needed for completely new products to run in tandem with existing ones.
Oh, I’m not sure of tandems are the answer
Another quality little documentary, thank you.
At least some of the motorcycle brands managed something British car brands MG and Rover and also the iconic Mini couldn't, re-emerge as proper UK manufactured brands.
And while on the expensive side the new models have the same appeal as the iconic old models of these brands had, also build quality is much better now, you don't need a bag of tools in case you break down.
Quite a few Triumphs are made overseas - Thailand and Brazil.
I use to live in the town where Panther called there home in West Yorkshire
I had a BSA Lightning,it was fun (When it ran).
Thank you for the cold facts, difficult for some to swallow.
I was chatting to some bikers in the USA and one told me:
"We really liked British bikes. Okay, not so much the oil leaks and constant maintenance. BUT there was one thing... common to all British motorcycles. LUCAS, the Prince Of Darkness. And we could not put up with that. So, Lucas and its shitty products were the cause of the death of the British motorcycle industry.
BSA stands for Birmingham Small Arms, not British Small Arms! :)
I was looking for this comment. You should have received an acknowledgement and a ❤ from the creator, so here's one from me instead. ❤
Having now watched the whole video (always best practice) I think we should give him a bye. He did correctly refer to BSA as Birmingham Small Arms further into the piece. He most likely just mispoke. Still a good catch though, if premature.
Did a tour around the Triumph Meriden factory in 1980. It was sad to see, it looked like time had stood still in there since the early 50s. You felt like you were in an old black and white photo in real life.
It was obvious that no investment or modernization had taken place in decades, I felt like saying, shall i just turn the lights off when i leave.
It seems as though the 70's were just a terrible time for Great Britain.
There are so many instances of the bike buying public being used as unpaid developement engineers. I know, I was there. Ariel 3. of course but what about BSA Dandy. Airiel Pixie, Norton Jubilee, Triumph Tina, Tigress etc. I suffered a Pixie, until I palmed it off on an unsuspecting car dealer in exchange for a Yamaha 80. What a revelation!
You Forgot to mention the Clark Scamp.....it made the ones on your list seem O.K.
When I was young I wanted to ride a motorbike before I changed my mind about it and I don’t drive at the moment but I still think that cars are lot safer to use.
Car are safer, but not as much fun.
Very well done although I knew about most of the topics you brought up I still learned a little more about this subject thank you for this Information
Many thanks for another excellent documentary. Lack of investment, lack of production approaches, to arrogant, to slow and bad management killed off another British Engineering capability. Brits do well at design and at the small cottage type industry, but cannot compete at the large industrial level. I believe, everyone gets caught up with the brand and fails to understand and apply the boring bits of scale production and being globally competitive in time. Really look forward to more. History of Vauxhall cars? what about British Aero Engines?
Management within the motor industry seems to reflect the same attitudes people are suffering under current Members of Parliament from Westminster.
I wonder if they all went to the same universities?
It's all a series that's summed up by the Pink Floyd track Not Now John, off the 1984 album The Final Cut. Sadly as an English man I too have witnessed and partaken in this catastrophic malaise.
On my way to listen to not know john...thanks.
I'm back. What a song and video! Floyd is great...had to listen "in ear." Now I will find lyrics. Thanks
Fun fact...the Bsa /Nvt "tracker" which was available as a 50 cc and 125 cc was a straight up copy of the Yamaha DT trail bike
When I was young, I used to watch the scramble racing on tv…
With Murray Walker commentating? I think it was his first gig.
@@adow77 it probably was but I was too young to have noticed.
The Vincent.
Handsome engine (HRD) let down by an archaic frame, visually anyway although I don't know how it handled because I've never ridden one.
Although aesthetically girder forks don't fill me with desire.
I took a rapide for a while (the twins went in order of tune: rapide, black shadow, and black lightning) and apart from the novel riding position (up high and quite foward: I'm 6' 2" but that shouldn't have mattered) I'm afraid I can't comment on the handling as I was petrified of doing anything untoward on someone else's rather pricey icon. I did get the impression why they were a legend in their own lifetime: it felt next level.
When you consider Russell Wright took his road going black lightning to the world record of 185mph on a rather skinny public road it really says a lot.
I still dream of a brough ss100 though
Riding a motorcycle in 1950 s Britain on weekends was fun, riding to work everyday in all weather wasn’t. People wanted cars .
You have to look into the Vincent "frame". You will be surprised.
Always a biker in Essex , now in Gaianes Spain have a nearly complete Suzuki gsx600f too heavy for me at 79 & the niw retired garage owner ( building still his ) is looking for a 250 to swap , even have a blunt ceremonial sword a Katana , not many brit bikes here , in the now not published Motos Classicas 300 free ads with some brit bikes 2 noddy bikes €1,400 , my late dad had the now rare Douglas Dragonfly !
Yes Great Show,,,Thanks
"Despite XXX millions in government subsidy, they only produced..."
*Despite* ? Compare and contrast with that long list of British companies producing quality bikes today that people actually want to buy - without government subsidy - and ponder the possibility that the government subsidies allowed the companies to ossify rather than address their issues incrementally _before_ the Japanese came and took their market.
Most of the British motorcycle brands are either own by Indian companies or have a partnership with them Norton is now owned by TVS motors , Royal Enfield is a now an Indian motorcycle brand , BSA is a subsidiary of Mahendra motors and Triumph has partnership with Bajaj - KTM !!!
@ 2:08 - I'm sorry, but couldn't help myself - I burst out laughing here as for a split second I saw a Harry & Paul spoof in my mind's eye 😂
Unfortunately, we stagnated and didn't invest.
Between ups urgent developing world competition and environmental issues motorcycles are a thing of the past. The future is Morris Dancing so we can attract and entertain tourists to our eccentric small island. Teach your children well! Sincerely, A. Patriot
Having left Britain in '65 I'd forgotten "Royal Enfield" even existed, a name I haven't heard in nearly sixty years.
War Reparations, New Factories with New Production Machinery in Germany, Italy, and Japan, so designs done in Britain were sent to those Countries to Shaft the People who had fought and won the War. 😡 The British government was the Major Share holder of the Fiat, Alfa, Ferrari, Vespa, Lambretta Group, when the big Strike hit Milan in the 1970’s, Callaghan sold the Controlling interest in it. Shortly after, Lambretta moved to Spain, and eventually ended up in India. I used to work for Thorn EMI and got their annual Share book. The Stuff they owned or shared ownership in, was staggering. Example - RCA Victor, partnered with them for Japanese Victor Corporation, or JVC . Cars, Motorcycles, electronics, TV’s you name it, all came in at rock bottom prices to kill off Domestic Competition. The most advanced TV in the World in the 1970’s ? The Ferguson TX, built in the first fully automated production facility in Southampton. Sold cheap to French idiots sadly. But but but EEC ! Screw Them, they have all really Screwed Us. 😡
A story applicable to ANY industry in ANY country whose politicians and investors have _spent too little_ on its future STEM skills. It joins the Third World.
Sometimes the best people simply choose to work in other growing and upcoming industries.
Best? You need a door to step through and a window in time. Luckiest? 😎@@R.-.
When Britain lead the industrial revolution, our best people were at the forefront and started the motorcycle industry. By the 1950s-60s there were a multitude of other industries to attract the best talent from nuclear, aviation, materials / chemicals to electronics and computing. Many of these industries are linked to defence. Germany, Italy and Japan were militarily restrained after WW2, so their best people would work in non-military related industries such as designing better motorcycles and motorcycle production lines.
The biggest thing Britain don't know what to do is market a brilliant product .Even though the British motorbike was doomed .the great names are still in huge.demand ... !
What's the bike at the 3:00 mark? Foot clutch so American, Rh shifter and front brake so Indian, but what appears to be Rh throttle? Wla Harley's were lh tank shift Rh throttle and lh front brake, so it more matches an army Indian.
Maybe the army reversed the throttle and advance?
Rule Britannia, Britannia Rules the Waves!
After WW 2, the country went to the dogs
From late 40s car excise duty was at a flat rate, first £10, then £12.50, £15 and so on. So if a bike was £50 cheaper... Below 150cc was 17/6. Sidecar was extra.
The above is a matter of record, but if the film narrator is so wrong with easily checked fact it could be his explanation of our bike makers' failure is convenient drivel too.
Bike sales dropped in 1930s relative to 20s because middle class boys recognised poor value. In 1950s Vespa and Lambretta were far less trouble than our 150s. We didn't make 250s till L plate restriction began 1960 and RE excepted ours were fairly miserable. Norton Jubilee or Honda? That was designed by the clown who blames 'Management'.
Count joints in engines. Not many in a Ford, many in a Triumph and ill secured. Villiers knew, made utility engine with one casting for cylinder and crankcase. They sold 2 million plus engines because passable, marinised as Seagull, it is still used as useful, noone in their right mind wants our posh bike engines.
Look at the Amal, air leaks idling with worn body and sliding throttle - compare Dellorto: it has no slack because the spring slants pushing throttle firmly against engine side of body. That was drawing office not management.
In those days, Uk bike manufacturers, considered any company producing better bikes than the British ones didn't exist.
They had to leak , have no modern turn signals or any other innovation.
British to them was the best.
They were stuck in an era, an refused to move with the times.
So the writing was on the wall.
Even Triumph once they were revived, started producing modern bikes, using all the techniques other countries (especially Japan) had brought in...
Indeed the 70s and 80s were a tough time for the English industry. From bikes, to cars, and planes every single time they would fail for reasons I still don't understand.
This isn't just mismanagement of an industry. --It is a palpable hatred of their own motorbike industry, starting as it usually does, with leaders & the managers of these failing companies that actually feel disgusted with their own industry! So, yes, it was soon felt by the customers who bought fewer & fewer of these steadily less competitive products which were suffering from poor engineering all the way down the line from initial engineering to the final assembly, making excuse after excuse for why they could not compete! It must have been awful to work for such a company.
I know, as I once worked for GM decades ago and they were filled with refusal to recognize their own inability to compete, and a palpable, easy to see and experience hatred and bizarre distrust of anyone who even liked cars or wanted to compete. But they were WOKE, making sure to advance people who often not qualified and fire those who were qualified if they weren't the right race or sex or woke attitude. It was incredible, shocking, & disgusting...
BSA wasn't the British Small Arms company, B stood for Birmingham.
btw, if anyone wants a really in depth analysis of the collapse, someone did their PhD on it and it's available online.
What do you mean Britain's winding, dark and uneven road surfaces AT THE TIME? They're not very good now!
AMC was not acquired by BSA in 1966, they were bought by Manganese-Bronze Holdings, and operated as Norton-Villiers.
He says "Birmingham"
@@andrewemery4272at 1:36 he does say British not Birmingham. Just another example of a lack of proof reading his scripts.
I bet our presenter does have a clue about the actual conditions of the UK's roads in WW2. Wi fi g, yes, dark, well that's a given thanks to the black-out. Uneven? Who knows, but as the roads were vital to the war effort I bet they were well kept.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 that's when I stopped the video and wrote the 1st part of the comment.
05:44 Birmingham
The money for investing in motorcycle production came from where it always does - The City of London. Why they chose Asia, Germany and Italy over England post World War II leaves them open to conspiracy theories.
The simple truth is no conspiracy, it's down to economics. In Japan and the rest of the Far East demand for motorcycles is huge they buy motorcycles by the millions rather that 10s or 100s of thousands here in the West. This means that when Japanese company approach a bank with the intention of acquiring a loan, not was the loan more likely to be granted but it would also be at a much lower interest rate. Where in Britain if a motorcycle company tried to get finance the chances of success would be at best low and successful the interest rate would be high and length of the pay back short. Only BSA could borrow money and then usually because of their wide engineering interests.
@@jasonhill4094 Logically speaking I was actually talking about 1946, 1947 onwards. There was no large market for motorcycles in Asia at the time. However the Venture capitalists started gradually withholding funds from ALL English industry. After 20 years most of it was dust.
@@Lyingleyen You could have a point despite having one of the biggest banking industries in the world, our banks hate lending money to industry and manufacturing in particular. A lot of British money was hidden in places like Hong-Kong during the high taxation years, Money that would be used to transform China.
Very interesting. Thanks 🙂
British motorcycles had european quality,but were considered temperamental by people who rode motorcycles,they usually had small mechanical flaws that if not fixed asap,would lead to other mechanical issues,whereas asian bikes usually required minimal attention for reliable operation.
Even in 2023 I would buy a Japanese bike. Why for cost, a 750cc Honda is 8k a similar bike from triumph is up to 2k more depending on the model.
Eeh. Price isn't everything.
That, and Kawasaki would always be my preference over a Honda.
“Similar”
Why someone be in charge of company have no interest in what the company makes? You should at least have people under you that are interested, then they can make the right decisions and keep the business profitable.
Ha ha ha ....who won the war fellas? All British OHC motors were assembled in the race shop, Honda turned an OHC motor into the world's biggest selling motorcycle and still in production today CT90 et al
I thought that This Souded Familiar the same Way the British Car Makers Went😢 20:23
I appreciate the history, but I can’t help point to politicians as the ultimate source of failure.
Que all the 'If only...could have...would have...unfortunately..." excuses. The UK bike industry committed suicide. Old designs, old factories, old ideas and lots of tired people. The same in almost every industry.
Sadly its not just the English Motorcycle Industry that has gone down the gutter its also now your entire country. Good luck
On a whole: Good riddance. Hate bikes. Hate being wet. Hate being cold. Hate leather. Car. The End. I almost forgot the girly hair-don't required to ride a bike.
People will put two and two together and conclude that the blame for this lay with Labour (under Wilson) - as they were in power for most of the 1960's.
But the rot started in the early 1950's..... when, surprise surprise, the Tories were in power, under Winston Churchill.
The lesson from this film, is that generally, the Tories do not invest in British industry, but seek to shrink it by 'asset stripping' it. They did this most notably during the 1980's. But people forget that they began doing this in the 1950's first under Churchill, and then later on under Macmillan.
It's Labour who invest in British industries - they proved this in the second half of the 1940's, the 60's, and the 00's. Meanwhile the Tories seeked to sell bits of it off at ludicrously low prices to foreign owned companies.
The Tories have always been like this and always will be in the future.
So although the Motorcycle industry died under Labour, most of the destruction of it was carried under the Tory governments of Churchill, Eden, Macmillan, and latterly, Heath.
By the time Thatcher became PM, the British motorcycle industry was all but finished. So the Tories turned their attention to the Mining industry instead. The rest as they say, is history.
More pits closed under Labour than the CONservatives, Labour did not crown themselves in glory either re British Shipbuilding or consolidation of steelmaking, especially in the Sheffield area.
That said I loathe the Legacy Political class in its entirety, their membership of the Fabian Society on both sides of the House will tell you all you need to know regarding their real agenda and where their loyalties really lay.
However I do not disagree with the content of your post.
This country has been deliberately deindustrialized and deliberately de skilled and all from within.
Howard Raymond Davies would be rolling in his grave!
As far as the japanese are concerned Honda single handedly almost destroyed the british motorcycle industry....then came Yamaha,Suzuki and Kawaski which between them obliterated the british companies.
In order to have done that they would have to have reduced demand for British bikes, the irony is damand increased during this period. As for the Japanese they redeemed the image of motorcycling, turning it from a dirty old fashioned form of transport often ridden by hooligans to a clean sensible and recreational past time ridden by a much larger demographic
@@jasonhill4094 what was the slgons Honda had ...."you meet the nicest people on a Honda"......and "a 100,000 peolpe can't be wrong"....and obviously the british bike industry didnt go away completley but as far as reliability,social image and acceptence by the average person,then yes the japanese did destroy the british bike industry so my piont stands.
@@jaws666 like I said in order for the Japanese to have been responsible for the British motorcycle industries demise, then they would have had to have taken sales away from them, but demand for British bikes was outstripping supply during the late 60s early 70s. The last year of production for the Norton Commando demand had never been higher but NVT was in financial trouble due to the loss of 2 years Triumph production at Meriden,.
@@jasonhill4094in the uk the demand for british bikes may still have been healthy but worldwide they fell in comparison to the sales the japanese achived and as far as the NVT situation is concerned im well aware of that...and speaking of NVT their "Tracker" trail bike was mostly a straight up copy of the Yamaha DT trail bike.
Like so many secdors
4.44 'The Mods were a motorcycle gang'.
And with that simple faux pas all credibility and expectation this is someone on top of their subject goes out the window.
Shame, as some of the old film footage is great........... But after that I took the narrative with absolute scepticism.
[Disambiguation: Mods rode Scooters NOT motorcyles in the normal sense of of the term]
non-motorcycling riding management managed them selves out of a job and killed a industry. 😅😂
"110mph vincent black shadow...."
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This is what happens when you get people making content for money with zero clue .
The thing is the middle ear ie from the death of the real triumph company through till about 2005 are just ugly crap motorbikes
To me, it was one single little thing: Horsepower per ccm/litre. Japan and Italy made England look like pieces of total utter shite. So, basically the exact same thing as to me killed the English car industry. Mini, 1 Litre, 34 hp, Daihatsu, 900 cc, 98 (!) hp. To this day I have a rule, either 100 hp per litre or at the very very least 1 hp per cubic inch displacement. You don't reach that, you are a loser.
The UJM killed the British Motorcycle
Bsa should have stuck to what they were best known for making....guns....hence the name Birmingham Small Arms
I think that BSA still exists, making guns in Birmingham.
(Based upon me delivering machined parts to a very 'secure' building in Brum !)
@@OldSonyMan they are stlll involved in the gun industry...just shouldnt have gotten involved in motorcycle production
@@OldSonyMan husqvarana of Sweden (now owend by cagiva of Italy) also started out as a weapons and gun maker LONG before they started making motorcycles....and when they were bought out by Cagiva (or at least the motorcycle division of the company) most of the design team left and formed a new motorcycle company......Husaberg
third
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