I think you undersold the punch line at the end: because of all the work the community had put into reverse engineering the game to try to prove Groobo's run cheated, they were able to produce a TAS of the game which was completely legitimate and faster than his by ONE SECOND.
For those who never followed up on this story, it was shown that Groobo also modified the damage output of the fireballs. This info came to light after this talk. He straight up cheated.
same as with the drops, obviously some of the run is min-maxing spliced run, but some of that was straightforward cheating required for such in-game frames, some not even achievable without altering the code (as you mention the dps of FB)
The Wired article asked him about it and he basically said “nuh uh” without anything else to back it up. It would have been an opportunity to say “oh yea lol I was young and dumb 15 years ago ya got me”. Instead he triples down on it. It really makes me wonder what type of person they are outside of it if they’re so invested in cheating a video game. Actually no I don’t have to wonder. We can look at Rod Todgers and Milly Bitchell for reference.
0:00 Introduction 2:31 Busting Todd Rogers 3:21 Explaining speedruns and TASes 5:17 Omnigamer's discovery 6:11 Explaining TASbot 6:50 The perfect dragster run 7:37 An impossible Super Mario Maker level? 9:00 Let's create a Diablo TAS! 10:30 Watching Groobo's run 15:26 Title Screen Inconsistencies 17:05 Invalid Dungeon Level Sequence 19:38 Inconsistent Inventory 20:29 Impossible Quest Combinations 22:27 Inaccessible Dungeon Level 23:55 Missing Gameplay 25:23 Improbable Item Duplication 26:14 Inconsistent Music Playback 27:08 Inconsistent Shop Inventory Rolling 28:08 Inconsistent Glitch Use 29:13 Conclusion 30:25 The twist! (Response) 33:05 What now? 35:07 A joint effort to beat this legitemately 36:24 Searching for the video 😶 37:33 Watching the Diablo TAS 43:16 End of the talk 43:53 Outro It's always crazy how speedruns evolve over time... Reminds me of an April Fools video I made, that beats Minecraft in 1 minute totally illegitemate... But now there are RTA runs that beat that April Fools run legitemately and I look like a fool... Evolving technology is fascinating!
Oh hey, saw a video about this last week. Nice to get your viewpoint on the story. Edit: For anyone who is curious, I'm referring to the abyssoft video linked in this video's description.
Something that has come out since this talk and proves he did cheat is that is it impossible to kill Diablo with the mana he had. Somehow his fireball spell is several levels above what is achievable with the exp he gained in the run. Awesome talk by the way.
I just wanted to commend you on keeping a fair and open mind and not going for the sensationalist angle and screaming fraud, despite the immense effort behind your examination. I believe your call here is fair with the info that you were able to gather and you should be proud of the work and the conclusion.
Big props to Funkmaster for wanting to a TAS for Diablo 1 if he hadn't want to do it then none of this would have come to light. Also It is thanks to this video that I know that it is impossible to do a Holy Grail in Diablo 1 (collecting all of the Unique Items that are in the game) with just one character due to the fact how the drop table works.
@Fender178 yes it is truly a shame and crazy to think that every unquie anyone has ever gotten in d1 was determined at character creation. I do wonder if it gets muddy and makes holy grail possible when you start doing multi-player however
@@itlahic566 Maybe if you run a multi-hour category with a ton of RNG that is ±several minutes depending on that. Otherwise, it's just so much more satisfying to watch and play RTA/single-segment.
IMO, he was 100% a cheater. Frankly, I think this run should've been thrown out as soon as the different versions of the game in the run were discovered.
the different versions used isn't outright means for throwing out a run, i've seen a live speedrun that patched the game mid run (i think it was elder scrolls 3: morrowind at an GDQ). however the inconsistency and the unexplainable item drop should be enough for getting the run thrown out.
@@cranberrysauce61 Moreover there is something he just forgot to talk about. I remember when this started showing up there was even an inconsistency with the number of fireballs used to kill diablo. The level showed or believed the character to be was not able to kill diablo as fast as it was show in the run. I'm kinda confused that this wasn't mentioned at all in this video.
@@nixiedreamstar We hadn't concluded that part of the investigation at the time this was recorded, and DEF CON only posted the video recently which is the cause of the delay. Please see the section on damage calculation we wrote up in the analysis at Diablo.TAS.Bot
I'd ignore the different runs thing because the part of having a seed that is just straight up impossible within normal means makes it invalid. Even with the excuses the runner had, the impossible seeds cannot be allowed because it cannot be achieved in normal gameplay, which makes it cheating And the cheated final boss just adds another reason why
@@VCXZ883 it's hard to discount it just for the splash pages. It's rare but those things can occasionally get missed in up-patching and down patching. The proper image could have not been copied in or the splash page could have defaulted to the original for some odd reason. It's cause for suspicion but not nearly something on the level of say mind crafts seed loading image.
The thing that gets me is ... he got 2 impossible levels, which means he modified the game, and ontop of the 'reasoning' of just reusing ... menus from multiple versions??? like that's just weird as hell. Once you start to modify the game code to give otherwise inaccessible levels via seeds that can not be accessed without some injection goes so far beyond tas, or any form of segmented run that you've entered just cheating realms
Well, yes, but actually no. Arbitrary code execution is definitely a thing; you can see some extreme shenanigans in the "total control" Mario 3 superplay on RUclips, for example. ACE is used in several speed runs to beat the game in ridiculous times (Super Mario World is sub 1 minute, for example). That said, what he's doing in Diablo here is very much cheating.
@@alaeriia01 Arbitrary code execution within Diablo 1 didn't exist in 2009 when the run was made. Modding game files is not ACE, ACE happens within the confines of the playable game not tinkering with the installation files.
I think that 2 segments being impossible to recreate via TAS proves that he cheated, regardless of whatever explanations he tried to sweet talk you with.
Did you do this talk before you found out that the final boss fight was cheated by hacking the game to have a max level hero character? I'd think that would change your thoughts about whether he intended to cheat?
I wish I had more people in my life to whom I can explain just how impressive it is to reconstruct the starting position in a functionally infinite series by rebuilding the map.
It reminds me of the griefers who can figure out where someone's base is on a Minecraft server with one image showing enough of the original landscape, or the bedrock pattern. Crazy stuff.
@@Quandry1 I rewatched the talk only recently and I can definitely spot moments where I tripped myself up, it was such a dynamic situation with Groobo responding so close to the talk and everything I was going to present changing. Stand by for another talk coming up soon
@@dwangoAC I'll look forward to seeing that pop up, both because you'll be more prepared (because you won't be talking about stuff literally minutes after it was figured out), and because it'll cover the stuff that was mentioned being discovered after your presentation (like the final boss inconsistency)
We assume DwangoAC is speaking to a crowd of people. In fact, he wasn't. Just one audio guy that was playing random sounds. I mean, we don't see the audience. How can we ASSUME it is real? Need proof. Show me the receipts! Joking, lol.
@@naikrovek I would love to have less time for this, I was laid off and subsequently underemployed - if there's work you or anyone else reading this think I could be excelling at, please reach out (my contact information is available through RUclips or via Discord)
@@TuxieBSOD I'm certain it's on RUclips. It's from Mario 3, it's about 11 minutes long, and there absolutely are shenanigans going on. He gets 99 lives during the autoscroller sections by bouncing on cannonballs.
v=qXEEobKbfX0 but there are better/faster TASes of Mario 3 that have been produced since then. This particular video is still notable as a historical curiosity though.
Still to this day, I'm still amazed by your presentation skills. I discovered you through gdq and I've been following you ever since. You manage to find a perfect way to present information where it's both informative and interesting to novices as well as veterans within the TAS community. My question to you might be stupid but is your presentation writing process documented somewhere that we could take part in? Thank you Dwango, and as always, Full Fräs Bearnaise
Aww, thank you so much for the compliment! I'm always trying different presentation approaches and I use different techniques depending on the type of presentation I'm doing. I usually prefer to do the exact opposite of what most people do and I go with a dynamic presentation using live demos rather than reading off of static slides. For some things I memorize the entire thing and do a few takes until I'm happy with the outcome. Rarely I'll directly read from a script live, but I've never completely mastered that like John Oliver has. I'd love to chat more, please do swing by Discord.gg/TASBot and we can chat there :)
this was super interesting!! i love hearing about the technical side of things even though i unfortunately do not understand much, but it's very cool and interesting. for example, the whole bit about how seeds are generated in D1 and that it only goes up to 2038 :D so cool!!
Todd Rogers: obviously a cheater Mario Maker guy: yes, a cheater, he deliberately deceived people and wasted their time. Just because he came forward willingly doesn't make him any less of a cheater Groobo: yes, he is a cheater, at the end of it all you could not reproduce his run even with his interpretation of the rules, just because he wasn't malicious doesn't make him not a cheater Just because he seemed like a decent guy and talked openly with you and wasn't trying to cheat doesn't mean he didn't use an unfair advantage outside the rules.
Wasn't there also a big discrepancy about the minimum number of fireballs theoretically required to kill Diablo not lining up with how many were cast in the original speedrun because the number used in the run wouldn't be able to finish off Diablo when his HP regeneration was taken into account?
@@greenhowie I was the one up there presenting on a game I've never successfully completed on my own - trust me, I definitely felt like I had a lack of intelligence at times, heh
This is the second video ive seen about this diablo 1 speed run and i had no idea that the item drops and levels were generated and choosen apon character creation. Im very curious however if that changes when you play in multiplayer, whether its local or online. Is it possible to have a world load from another character that you join allowing you to then get the level layouts and items that were ment for the other character?
I'd recommend looking into the DevilutionX decomp for more but I can say the seed information (the game seed the dungeon seeds are derived from) is stored in the save file and is the only information needed to reconstruct everything. Presumably the battle.net code has specific handling of that but I'd recommend checking with a subject matter expert on that question
Todd Rodgers? I believe you will find, sir, that on the official court documents filed by the person you are incorrectly referring to that his name, as written and submitted by himself, is _Todd Todgers_ (he's not just a troll, he's borderline a sovereign citizen, complete with the absolute incompetence at legal documents) Also Dwango, you look younger than in other videos somehow. Whatever you're doing, it's working for you.
I would say he uploaded the run maliciously. Segmented runs weren't intended to use different versions of the game, and obviously not use memory manipulation and constantly changing your save file. If you are modifying your game externally, it is clearly not speedrun. He fully knew he was cheating. Even besides that the inventory inconstancies blatantly show it is a bogus run, either he played the character and caused the inventory to change which he didn't show, or he just modified the save file with external tools. Not known at the time of the video, he also modified his damage to be able to beat Diablo faster. Every thing about this run is bogus.
I understand you're trying to keep it PR friendly, I'm convinced Groobo did this on purpose knowing he could just say "I got super lucky what can I say" and no one could systematically invalidate his run back then. Now that you guys proved by several ways his run is cheated (because it is, if the game can't possibly generate the maps and items he got, how can it be legit ?), he doesn't have a choice other than saying how he did it and how he thought it was ok based on the loose rules. No interpretation of any rules would say "do whatever the hell you want with game memory, slap 15 different saves on different versions of the game and cut load times as well, why not". Great job catching this.
I never understood why it took so long for this run to be considered cheated. It was obvious from day 1. Is it one of those case of "We always knew he cheated, but we couldn't prove it"?
funny thing, seeing that "speed run for the first time" I had no doubt that was all mesh-up, splice, segmented and probably cheated, however even if there are just few needs for the run to be so fast obviously these key things such as DMG during killing of the Diablo or dropping specific items are so cheating was necessary to achieve that. However, kudos to the guys really going so freaking deep to prove all steps required and inconsistency present in the video. :) The fact that the presenter shows all that and in fact modified game used for this is not cheating, then definition of cheating is so loose like modern leftists liberal brains :D
@@SFtheWolf It's not that he (the original Diablo 1 runner) was wrong but that some people follow the letter of the law while not following the spirit of it. Game capture wasn't as simple as it is today, the tools to deconstruct a run was not as advanced, pretty much anything that requires effort to track down was limited to people who had high level ability while also having time to make this a side project. Eventually it wasn't the crime but the cover up as they say. The community at the time generally agreed that segments spliced together was a legitimate way to do recording, but someone took the trust and damaged it for that particular community with their inconsistent run no one could overcome
never attribute to malice, that can be attributed to... usually its stupidity but, I feel a more appropriate word in this case would be "logical fallacy". As there was no obvious ill intent and it was simply a reading of the rules.
This talk happened before even more evidence came out. Groobo's run is cheated through malice, unless we are gong to say he innocently gave his character extra levels before the Diablo fight.
For someone supposedly having worked on Diablo TAS for so long he sure doesn’t really know much about the game at all technical level. I feel like it’s his team who did all the heavy lifting.
Oh, I openly admit to having never completed a game of Diablo and relied heavily on the subject matter experts I credited throughout - I still haven't managed to beat Diablo myself, heh. I did write the analysis document using input from a large number of subject matter experts and contributors but I'll be the first to admit I'm not the most experienced with this special game. I just somehow ended up stumbling into all of this, somehow not for the first time
I'm surprised* you didn't fly Karl Jobst out to help you present this *I am not surprised at all, since Karl has his own commitments but I would have smiled real big for sure.
I think you undersold the punch line at the end: because of all the work the community had put into reverse engineering the game to try to prove Groobo's run cheated, they were able to produce a TAS of the game which was completely legitimate and faster than his by ONE SECOND.
@@Sauraen We've since submitted a much faster TAS of course, but your point stands
For those who never followed up on this story, it was shown that Groobo also modified the damage output of the fireballs. This info came to light after this talk. He straight up cheated.
same as with the drops, obviously some of the run is min-maxing spliced run, but some of that was straightforward cheating required for such in-game frames, some not even achievable without altering the code (as you mention the dps of FB)
The Wired article asked him about it and he basically said “nuh uh” without anything else to back it up.
It would have been an opportunity to say “oh yea lol I was young and dumb 15 years ago ya got me”. Instead he triples down on it.
It really makes me wonder what type of person they are outside of it if they’re so invested in cheating a video game.
Actually no I don’t have to wonder. We can look at Rod Todgers and Milly Bitchell for reference.
Milly Bitchell 💀
Fr tho like the jig is up, "nuh uh" ain't gonna cut it
@@rory_o Milly Bitchell is my new favourite insult
According to court documents, his name is actually apparently Todd Togers
0:00 Introduction
2:31 Busting Todd Rogers
3:21 Explaining speedruns and TASes
5:17 Omnigamer's discovery
6:11 Explaining TASbot
6:50 The perfect dragster run
7:37 An impossible Super Mario Maker level?
9:00 Let's create a Diablo TAS!
10:30 Watching Groobo's run
15:26 Title Screen Inconsistencies
17:05 Invalid Dungeon Level Sequence
19:38 Inconsistent Inventory
20:29 Impossible Quest Combinations
22:27 Inaccessible Dungeon Level
23:55 Missing Gameplay
25:23 Improbable Item Duplication
26:14 Inconsistent Music Playback
27:08 Inconsistent Shop Inventory Rolling
28:08 Inconsistent Glitch Use
29:13 Conclusion
30:25 The twist! (Response)
33:05 What now?
35:07 A joint effort to beat this legitemately
36:24 Searching for the video 😶
37:33 Watching the Diablo TAS
43:16 End of the talk
43:53 Outro
It's always crazy how speedruns evolve over time... Reminds me of an April Fools video I made, that beats Minecraft in 1 minute totally illegitemate... But now there are RTA runs that beat that April Fools run legitemately and I look like a fool... Evolving technology is fascinating!
The fact that you got to speak at Defcon is just fantastic. That is a convention I've always dreamed of going! "Please, no hurt, no kill!!"
@@ImpmanPDX It's always a great time, this was my fourth mainstage talk at DEF CON
They're so woke now that Defcon has lost its edge. They're probably still wearing masks.
this is beyond laughable to run at defcon
le hackerinos these days are absolute cringe
LOOK MA I HACKED LE GAME
Oh hey, saw a video about this last week. Nice to get your viewpoint on the story.
Edit: For anyone who is curious, I'm referring to the abyssoft video linked in this video's description.
That's funny because that exact video is the top recommended under this video. The algorithm is pretty good sometimes.
Something that has come out since this talk and proves he did cheat is that is it impossible to kill Diablo with the mana he had. Somehow his fireball spell is several levels above what is achievable with the exp he gained in the run.
Awesome talk by the way.
@@kizmetmars I've been wondering if the fireball was higher or if Diablo had lower fire resistance.
I just wanted to commend you on keeping a fair and open mind and not going for the sensationalist angle and screaming fraud, despite the immense effort behind your examination. I believe your call here is fair with the info that you were able to gather and you should be proud of the work and the conclusion.
Big props to Funkmaster for wanting to a TAS for Diablo 1 if he hadn't want to do it then none of this would have come to light. Also It is thanks to this video that I know that it is impossible to do a Holy Grail in Diablo 1 (collecting all of the Unique Items that are in the game) with just one character due to the fact how the drop table works.
@Fender178 yes it is truly a shame and crazy to think that every unquie anyone has ever gotten in d1 was determined at character creation. I do wonder if it gets muddy and makes holy grail possible when you start doing multi-player however
Back in the day it was ok to segment A run (because of low upload speeds etc). Not stitch together a Frankenstein out of many different ones.
Segmented runs are superior and always have been, just not when they get passed off as a live run.
@@itlahic566 Maybe if you run a multi-hour category with a ton of RNG that is ±several minutes depending on that. Otherwise, it's just so much more satisfying to watch and play RTA/single-segment.
IMO, he was 100% a cheater. Frankly, I think this run should've been thrown out as soon as the different versions of the game in the run were discovered.
the different versions used isn't outright means for throwing out a run, i've seen a live speedrun that patched the game mid run (i think it was elder scrolls 3: morrowind at an GDQ).
however the inconsistency and the unexplainable item drop should be enough for getting the run thrown out.
@@cranberrysauce61 Moreover there is something he just forgot to talk about. I remember when this started showing up there was even an inconsistency with the number of fireballs used to kill diablo. The level showed or believed the character to be was not able to kill diablo as fast as it was show in the run. I'm kinda confused that this wasn't mentioned at all in this video.
@@nixiedreamstar We hadn't concluded that part of the investigation at the time this was recorded, and DEF CON only posted the video recently which is the cause of the delay. Please see the section on damage calculation we wrote up in the analysis at Diablo.TAS.Bot
I'd ignore the different runs thing because the part of having a seed that is just straight up impossible within normal means makes it invalid.
Even with the excuses the runner had, the impossible seeds cannot be allowed because it cannot be achieved in normal gameplay, which makes it cheating
And the cheated final boss just adds another reason why
@@VCXZ883 it's hard to discount it just for the splash pages. It's rare but those things can occasionally get missed in up-patching and down patching. The proper image could have not been copied in or the splash page could have defaulted to the original for some odd reason. It's cause for suspicion but not nearly something on the level of say mind crafts seed loading image.
The romulan in the cover image "ITS A FAKE" I totally approve.
@@icelockon Sisko got away with it… with a bit of murder!
The thing that gets me is ... he got 2 impossible levels, which means he modified the game, and ontop of the 'reasoning' of just reusing ... menus from multiple versions??? like that's just weird as hell.
Once you start to modify the game code to give otherwise inaccessible levels via seeds that can not be accessed without some injection goes so far beyond tas, or any form of segmented run that you've entered just cheating realms
Well, yes, but actually no. Arbitrary code execution is definitely a thing; you can see some extreme shenanigans in the "total control" Mario 3 superplay on RUclips, for example. ACE is used in several speed runs to beat the game in ridiculous times (Super Mario World is sub 1 minute, for example). That said, what he's doing in Diablo here is very much cheating.
@@alaeriia01 Arbitrary code execution within Diablo 1 didn't exist in 2009 when the run was made. Modding game files is not ACE, ACE happens within the confines of the playable game not tinkering with the installation files.
@-Keith- Correct. I'm saying that suspicious behavior can sometimes be explained as ACE rather than cheating; this was not one of those times.
I watched so much TAS on GDQ that I recognized him by the voice
Awesome presentation. Love the TASbot representation at defcon!
I think that 2 segments being impossible to recreate via TAS proves that he cheated, regardless of whatever explanations he tried to sweet talk you with.
Did you do this talk before you found out that the final boss fight was cheated by hacking the game to have a max level hero character? I'd think that would change your thoughts about whether he intended to cheat?
yeah, defcon was a while back and the videos are still trickling out
I wish I had more people in my life to whom I can explain just how impressive it is to reconstruct the starting position in a functionally infinite series by rebuilding the map.
It reminds me of the griefers who can figure out where someone's base is on a Minecraft server with one image showing enough of the original landscape, or the bedrock pattern. Crazy stuff.
To see you flustered when presenting is so rare. But this was very interesting to hear you specifically talk about it.
@@Quandry1 I rewatched the talk only recently and I can definitely spot moments where I tripped myself up, it was such a dynamic situation with Groobo responding so close to the talk and everything I was going to present changing. Stand by for another talk coming up soon
@@dwangoAC I'll look forward to seeing that pop up, both because you'll be more prepared (because you won't be talking about stuff literally minutes after it was figured out), and because it'll cover the stuff that was mentioned being discovered after your presentation (like the final boss inconsistency)
We assume DwangoAC is speaking to a crowd of people. In fact, he wasn't. Just one audio guy that was playing random sounds. I mean, we don't see the audience. How can we ASSUME it is real? Need proof. Show me the receipts! Joking, lol.
*This DwangoAC Show was recorded in front of a live studio audience. Of semi-sentient sofas.*
*Viewer Discretion is advised.*
I'm impressed that we've advanced society far enough that we can have people with both the time to do this, and the financial resources.
@@naikrovek I would love to have less time for this, I was laid off and subsequently underemployed - if there's work you or anyone else reading this think I could be excelling at, please reach out (my contact information is available through RUclips or via Discord)
this will change very soon...
Saw this talk on another channel good to see it on yours!
That super mario speedrun that randomly got 99 lives and things.. is that up somewhere? Very curious!
@@TuxieBSOD I'm certain it's on RUclips. It's from Mario 3, it's about 11 minutes long, and there absolutely are shenanigans going on. He gets 99 lives during the autoscroller sections by bouncing on cannonballs.
v=qXEEobKbfX0 but there are better/faster TASes of Mario 3 that have been produced since then. This particular video is still notable as a historical curiosity though.
Still to this day, I'm still amazed by your presentation skills. I discovered you through gdq and I've been following you ever since. You manage to find a perfect way to present information where it's both informative and interesting to novices as well as veterans within the TAS community.
My question to you might be stupid but is your presentation writing process documented somewhere that we could take part in?
Thank you Dwango, and as always, Full Fräs Bearnaise
Aww, thank you so much for the compliment! I'm always trying different presentation approaches and I use different techniques depending on the type of presentation I'm doing. I usually prefer to do the exact opposite of what most people do and I go with a dynamic presentation using live demos rather than reading off of static slides. For some things I memorize the entire thing and do a few takes until I'm happy with the outcome. Rarely I'll directly read from a script live, but I've never completely mastered that like John Oliver has. I'd love to chat more, please do swing by Discord.gg/TASBot and we can chat there :)
this was super interesting!! i love hearing about the technical side of things even though i unfortunately do not understand much, but it's very cool and interesting. for example, the whole bit about how seeds are generated in D1 and that it only goes up to 2038 :D so cool!!
what happened to tasbot?? did he get a makeover for legal purposes? witness protection?
love the new look either way though 😂
@@PrincessColumbidae More or less, yes :)
I've been waiting for this video. This is absolutely delightful.
Todd Rogers: obviously a cheater
Mario Maker guy: yes, a cheater, he deliberately deceived people and wasted their time. Just because he came forward willingly doesn't make him any less of a cheater
Groobo: yes, he is a cheater, at the end of it all you could not reproduce his run even with his interpretation of the rules, just because he wasn't malicious doesn't make him not a cheater
Just because he seemed like a decent guy and talked openly with you and wasn't trying to cheat doesn't mean he didn't use an unfair advantage outside the rules.
Wasn't there also a big discrepancy about the minimum number of fireballs theoretically required to kill Diablo not lining up with how many were cast in the original speedrun because the number used in the run wouldn't be able to finish off Diablo when his HP regeneration was taken into account?
That was something that was still being investigated at the time I gave the presentation. Stay tuned for an updated talk that includes that element :)
I am painfully aware of my lack of intelligence watching this. But it's still entertaining, which says a lot.
@@greenhowie I was the one up there presenting on a game I've never successfully completed on my own - trust me, I definitely felt like I had a lack of intelligence at times, heh
This is the second video ive seen about this diablo 1 speed run and i had no idea that the item drops and levels were generated and choosen apon character creation. Im very curious however if that changes when you play in multiplayer, whether its local or online. Is it possible to have a world load from another character that you join allowing you to then get the level layouts and items that were ment for the other character?
I'd recommend looking into the DevilutionX decomp for more but I can say the seed information (the game seed the dungeon seeds are derived from) is stored in the save file and is the only information needed to reconstruct everything. Presumably the battle.net code has specific handling of that but I'd recommend checking with a subject matter expert on that question
Todd Rodgers? I believe you will find, sir, that on the official court documents filed by the person you are incorrectly referring to that his name, as written and submitted by himself, is _Todd Todgers_
(he's not just a troll, he's borderline a sovereign citizen, complete with the absolute incompetence at legal documents)
Also Dwango, you look younger than in other videos somehow. Whatever you're doing, it's working for you.
Wow what a cool video!! Great work!
I would say he uploaded the run maliciously. Segmented runs weren't intended to use different versions of the game, and obviously not use memory manipulation and constantly changing your save file. If you are modifying your game externally, it is clearly not speedrun. He fully knew he was cheating. Even besides that the inventory inconstancies blatantly show it is a bogus run, either he played the character and caused the inventory to change which he didn't show, or he just modified the save file with external tools. Not known at the time of the video, he also modified his damage to be able to beat Diablo faster. Every thing about this run is bogus.
I understand you're trying to keep it PR friendly, I'm convinced Groobo did this on purpose knowing he could just say "I got super lucky what can I say" and no one could systematically invalidate his run back then.
Now that you guys proved by several ways his run is cheated (because it is, if the game can't possibly generate the maps and items he got, how can it be legit ?), he doesn't have a choice other than saying how he did it and how he thought it was ok based on the loose rules. No interpretation of any rules would say "do whatever the hell you want with game memory, slap 15 different saves on different versions of the game and cut load times as well, why not".
Great job catching this.
I never understood why it took so long for this run to be considered cheated. It was obvious from day 1.
Is it one of those case of "We always knew he cheated, but we couldn't prove it"?
@@DarkSim64 More like it probably took too much effort to prove (and in retrospect, it really was a lot of effort)
funny thing, seeing that "speed run for the first time" I had no doubt that was all mesh-up, splice, segmented and probably cheated, however even if there are just few needs for the run to be so fast obviously these key things such as DMG during killing of the Diablo or dropping specific items are so cheating was necessary to achieve that. However, kudos to the guys really going so freaking deep to prove all steps required and inconsistency present in the video. :)
The fact that the presenter shows all that and in fact modified game used for this is not cheating, then definition of cheating is so loose like modern leftists liberal brains :D
I guess if we believe this guy then cheating was just allowed back then and we shouldn't trust any SDA speedruns from that period
@@SFtheWolf It's not that he (the original Diablo 1 runner) was wrong but that some people follow the letter of the law while not following the spirit of it.
Game capture wasn't as simple as it is today, the tools to deconstruct a run was not as advanced, pretty much anything that requires effort to track down was limited to people who had high level ability while also having time to make this a side project.
Eventually it wasn't the crime but the cover up as they say. The community at the time generally agreed that segments spliced together was a legitimate way to do recording, but someone took the trust and damaged it for that particular community with their inconsistent run no one could overcome
@@Solinaruare you his lawyer
@@SFtheWolf no, just repeating the point of the video
@@Solinaruthank you for the summary but I already watched the video. it spent 40 minutes describing in scientific detail how he definitely cheated.
never attribute to malice, that can be attributed to... usually its stupidity but, I feel a more appropriate word in this case would be "logical fallacy".
As there was no obvious ill intent and it was simply a reading of the rules.
This talk happened before even more evidence came out. Groobo's run is cheated through malice, unless we are gong to say he innocently gave his character extra levels before the Diablo fight.
For someone supposedly having worked on Diablo TAS for so long he sure doesn’t really know much about the game at all technical level. I feel like it’s his team who did all the heavy lifting.
Oh, I openly admit to having never completed a game of Diablo and relied heavily on the subject matter experts I credited throughout - I still haven't managed to beat Diablo myself, heh. I did write the analysis document using input from a large number of subject matter experts and contributors but I'll be the first to admit I'm not the most experienced with this special game. I just somehow ended up stumbling into all of this, somehow not for the first time
11:05 "This was a game made by Diablo... " 🤣
@@NPC-30 I definitely didn't catch myself on everything, heh
That's cool and all but are you bringing back the DOOMLAN to MAGFest?! :)
@@itsdylac If the folks who run that room set it up again you can bet I'll be there
"draw the health in the orb"
He wasn't cheating. He was playing his greatest hits on CD. Only $9.95
Great breakdown!
Great talk!
of course he was a cheater.. even by way back standards! and the verificators back then did a poor job
Yes. Yes he was a cheater.
Uh oh he referenced rhe thing he going to get sued
@@Agent29416 I've been worried about getting sued for TASBot antics for a while now, heh
For the record I was referencing Todd Rogers
I'm surprised* you didn't fly Karl Jobst out to help you present this
*I am not surprised at all, since Karl has his own commitments but I would have smiled real big for sure.
FuGroobo 😂