I think before you get your alberta fishing license there should be a 1/2 day course on fishing handling, identification of fish and what gear to be used to eliminate the mortality rate of these fish.
100%. An East Slopes Trout Ecology & Handling Course should be mandatory. The tools are there to screen those who refuse. You don't want to put the effort in to understanding our impact, you don't fish. Done. And that would lead to so much more ticket revenue potential of course :)
That's a great idea. When I was a kid, you couldn't get a hunting license unless you attended a course and then passed a test. Should be exactly the same for fishing.
Your most important lesson yet. Long leaders, mending with your feet, slow and quiet approaches, the importance of line control, smudge hunting, and always giving it a go; none of those valuable lessons will matter much if we don't make the efforts/sacrifices required to preserve the resource. As a well known Canadian folk singer once wrote, "Don't it always seem to go , That you don't know what you got 'til it's gone, They paved paradise and put up a parking lot". Thanks for reminding us of what we had, what we have, and what we stand to lose with complacency.
Hey Dave, seeing this video made me really happy. I’ve fished this river for about a decade now. My family and I as well hold this river in a special place in our hearts. Knowing other people have similar respects for this river is amazing. I remember catching the same fish here years in a row as well. It’s changing now and I see more and more anglers which is good if they treat the river and fish right. I hope everyone that fishes this river watches this video. Please handle the fish with care everyone keep this river thriving. I’d love passing this river onto my daughter once she gets old enough to learn but I know it’s not going to be the same if we all don’t work together on this river.
:) The eras have changed and that is a great thing. No longer is it a void in society where people that passionately care wander alone in an echo chamber. Society in Alberta has changed and a massively higher % of people across a broader spectrum of the Alberta society is engaged. It is so easy for people to connect and have their/our voices heard. And that's your daughter's future, which is great. Future videos of this river will focus on the fishing and the experience and hopefully those do the scenery and habitat more justice :)
By a longshot your BEST video. More than the actual words you spoke. The emotion, color and character in your voice said it all. You almost didn’t need to speak a word to understand your passion and heartbreak. Very very much respect from me,as well by most everyone that views this. Thank you!
Thank you for taking the time to watch, to connect, to see and understand all that. It's hard to care and take action then see what turns over time. But it all can be corrected. Hopefully new anglers take things up and connect the same way ♥️ that river will be there long after any one individual of us and needs be passed to he next in better shape than each of us were given. 🍻
I really appreciate your passion, I share them. I’ve been fly fishing for 15 years in Alberta, not nearly as long as you and I’ve seen a big change in the few rivers I fish. It’s hard to watch and this video really puts it into perspective. It’s so unfortunate that fisherman/women do not see it how a lot of dedicated anglers see it. I can tell this is heartbreaking to you and I feel the same. I would really like to see all river in Alberta catch and release and fly fishing only. Even closing certain rivers that see a lot of pressure from season to season. Again, thanks for being a voice and showing so much passion. Ps..I like trout more than most people.
100% and if we can't share our passion and allow it to hopefully have positive moving forward impact then we do ourselves, the resource and others a disservice. I'm sure at some point later this year there will be someone out there leading something along the lines of what we shared here and when we hear of it we'll be sure to share it - hopefully stay tuned! 😊🍻
This video needs more recognition. You need to share this video and make sure the FFT (Fly Fishing Film Tour) knows about this video and will make it a part of the next years film tour. The story of how this river has grown is a perfect demonstration of how others need to push harder and harder to conserve and protect other rivers that may be close to home for us! Really take this video to home and tell your friends about their struggle that Dave and Amelia have gone through and the effort they gone through to make this video public. Also the massive struggle they have gone through to protect these fish. Every one of us watching this video need to take the efforts that they have endured and struggled through, and push hard to instate proper fishing regulations and practices on our own local rivers and streams, especially the native fish we hold so near and dear to our hearts and spend countless days to peruse. These fish are an especially precious resource, and we cannot ever let the human race damper their chances of survival. We need to push as hard as we can to protect the fisheries and insure that these native fish have the best fighting chance to survive and grow to the point where our own grand and great grandchildren are allowed to the same thrill of perusing these fish that we have now. And to allow our own grandchildren the same thrill in the pursuit.
Aw man. Yes and yes and yes. When we see comments like this and others in our feeds... we all know we aren't alone. It renders us speechless because it's all so real and so valuable to each of us. Please share as you can and see fit. Thank you for such a genuine & heartfelt reply and consideration ♥️
First of all, love all the video's. I love your enthusiasm and passion for this river and how it gets to you emotionally. I support everything you said, I'm not even living in the same continent but feel the same way. We don't have these crystal clear water or rivers, so treasure them.
They are treasures, especially with those fish and geography 😊 glad to hear what we share connects with you and yes, quite a load of emotion and history behind this one. 🍻
All about respect. For the fish, river, environment, you home ( this planet ), future generations and ultimately yourself. Take a pride in your yourself, your sport, your quarry, and it will reward you in ways you can not imagine. Power to you guys. I salute you.
Beautiful video... we need more people like you who actually care about the importance of fish habitat and the care we should take when Cath and Release is present.. we have been fly fishing for years, started back home in Chile🇨🇱 Southern Patagonia and I'm proud to say we have strict rules in order to protect all species. Keep up the great work👏🇨🇦 Question: Is this the only type of access to this river.. I have heard really bad stories about people leaving their vehicles parked and coming back to broken into vehicles as thieves know you are far away fishing down on river.. Patrick Edmonton Alberta
Thank you - glad you enjoy and hope you get out to enjoy this one! :) We've not ever had issue with thieves, however, it happens... we suggest not taking too many extras nor extra valuables anywhere to the back country except what's with you. Best self-protect. Happy fall!
Thank You for all that you’ve done. You two and some others have inspired me to fly fish. Been watching your videos for sometime now and I’ve learned a lot from them. I am new to fly fishing been studying up on all content I can get a hold of. I am all about catch and release when it comes to these special fish, handling them with respect and knowing how long to keep them out of water is very important. Hoping to take a class soon with a local Calgary Fly shop so I can gain further knowledge about fly fishing and trout. I appreciate you taking the time to discuss this issue and put together a video. Looking fwd to your next film! 🇨🇦🤙🏾
That's all wonderful to hear. 😊 Handling and gear type is important... % improvements definitely compound, especially in low populations of slow growing and old aged fish! Hope you are having a great summer and are enjoying each fish! 😊🍻
Powerful video, and clearly one close to your heart. I'm sure it's been hard to share the Ram River, and even harder to see it's descent. I hope it finds a more positive state in future years and that you get to see (and enjoy) it.
Thank you. It was tough at first but it was the only way to get it back from complete collapse when the Alberta government allocated oil/gas exploration and forestry tenures. It was a good thing to promote and share it in order to get it back. Now? I think it can legit handle the angling pressure it gets IF people give a damn about the fish and understand the environment they live in. Trouble is that it is Alberta - take it for granted and if it doesn't exist go somewhere else and do something else. The worm is turning on this stuff and the replies and messages incoming dwarf what I saw when doing the original catch & release regulations petition. Far, FAR more awareness today. That's a wonderful thing! But as far as fishing it and returning to enjoying it? Time... I was able to enjoy 2 of our 3 days and then issues hit me square in the face. We'll be back again this fall to try once more. :)
Thanks again for another intelligent video. I thoroughly enjoy your work whether for pure fun or education. I try to fish the North Ram once a year and have for over 25 years it really is a special place. The speed of change is accelerating especially in terms of River access. There are many more resource roads this year including a major one that I assume was for a proposed coal mine. This is allowing more people to drive right to the river. Perhaps we cannot limit public access but I do agree that better fish handling by everyone could be a start. Would you consider doing a detailed video on how to quickly fight fish, solo net them and then unhook and release them? Thanks
Thanks for taking the time to reply Neil. I bet you've had some wonderful days on the N Ram - it's a wonderful water to pick apart in the subtle lies and pockets. :) A video will be forth coming on handling. Behind the scenes Orvis is formulating some parameters and we've begun to create short pieces here & there that touch on video/photography. Amelia just recorded a podcast with Tom Rosenbauer on Tuesday about fish photography & videography and handling/considerations. That will air soon and we'll share/post it when Tom/Orvis post it. As well, please see another video we just posted this week: ruclips.net/video/Erxd-sgt8vA/видео.html All the best!
Thank you so much for all your efforts. Ive fished my whole life and love all forms of angling but I 'm new (5 years ) to fly fishing and it quickly became my favourite style of angling!! The Ram River is one of the most beautiful rivers Ive had the pleasure of fishing. I would love to help out any way I can, please don't give up. I am willing to help out anyway I can. I would like to get involved.
Good for you getting into fly fishing. If you still spin-fish it is the way to get deep or to catch bigger fish but those dry fly days on the Ram and its cutts are certainly magical ones! Please be sure to connect with Central Alberta Trout Unlimited Canada (TUC) and maybe the Alberta Fish & Game central as well. It's going to take more people to give a damn and get involved to not just keep what we have but to keep the biologists from continuing their biologistitis and close everything rather than fight for our habitat and access issues. Cheers!
@@jensenflyfishing thank you for responding.. I will definitely connect with your suggestions, I would never spin cast for cuttys or bulls I think the fish respond too aggressive and the hooks used inflict too much damage. I wish Alberta would adopt some of the slot limits ( eg: Saskatchewan & Manitoba) on the few rivers and lakes that hold a healthy stock of fish, they seem to restrict keeping the smaller non brood stock and only let you keep a big fish that are generally the breeders ( Cow lake is a good recent example with only allowing a pike over 100cm and a short time later all the big mamma's are gone and now a zero limit is in effect) thats my 2cents!! looking forward to your next video!! Cheers!! PS thankx for keeping Barry Mitchels magazine going!!
@@willyg71 Well, you could spin cutts/bulls but I think I was more thinking browns and bows as I typed :) Alberta certainly has a cookie cutter, one size all, lowest common denominator mgt approach and given how low that LCD is, it's amazing we have the few good fish we do. When the gov guiding principles ensure everyone has equal access no matter how little they care about the resource or other users, we get what we have. Hopefully that changes in our time. Equal access, certainly, but not carte blanche right to abuse based on known parameters of populations. And hopefully Barry's magazine continues on in some form of its spirit well into the future!
Dave, I feel your passion. And your sadness. God only made so many spots like you show here. Thank you two for your hard work. We need more fisherman like you. Never quit fighting though, just regroup and renew. Very best wishes!!
Life has its seasons. Moving to southern Alberta to avoid being in the spotlight and heavily involved has been refreshing. Now, obviously, we still have a lot to say on various matters. More to come. And yes, how many places on earth look like this one with a stunner of a cutthroat trout population? Glorious place, this. :)
I'll be honest, I have never considered the age of fish and that's a really good way to put into perspective what you're protecting! This has certainly lit a fire under me. To speak up and educate those that hear my voice about how to handle fish properly!
We always see the size, don't we? But when you consider age it completely sends understanding on another tangent doesn't it? We all want to catch those fish but we never consider them to be granny & gramps of the population... and we all know how fragile they are and how few get to be so old. We need them in our populations. 🍻 thanks for considering that! ♥️
I was 8 yrs old in 1970 when my family first camped on the Ram River !. It was a logging road with stones bigger than my fist that would take out the tires , muffler and gas tank . Spinners were our bread and butter and only used , with 1 barbed hook , when trout was the only thing we had for dinner ! . Just the pure experience of being on this amazing river was worth the 3 hour drive with my other brother and 2 sisters . Dad skillfully negotiating the car through the numerous hairpin turns and 200 foot drop off hills , Mom eagle-eyed on the trees watching for cattle , deer , bighorn, elk , bear , moose and telling us to hang on ! Lol ..... Cutthroat were plentiful and it was always catch and release as we only kept what we needed for a dinner of pan fries , 12 inch pan , We might see 3 cars on a long weekend ! and the logging trucks stopped running Friday . They would help u out on Monday if u were stuck . The organizations and sheer number of people that use the river now is unthought of too me . The free camping is out of control and the provincial camping has gotten cheaply sourced , which means expensive to campers ! . My heart goes out to the Ram River and too those who have experienced the finest natural high foothills land that Alberta has claim too ! . I beg that the people of Canada, Do Not consider this land as restorable , restockable, revitalized , renaturalised or for sale ! . The Ram River is not even close to being pristine as it was in 1970 ! and that's with the moratorium on coal mining ! . Keep ur tip up and ur hook in the water eh !
Great video. I have been lucky to fish the South Ram a few times. It is incredible. I agree with every word of yours except your messaging around barbless hooks. I firmly believe that barbs are detrimental, especially when other factors come into play. A smaller wound is just preferable over a larger wound. I can’t wait to return.
the only rebuttal is how barbless ties in to the larger Alberta angling guiding principles and the head of Fisheries on record perpetually that barbless hooks are not on the docket for revisiting. Hence, fight the fights you can realizing that you can't fight how the system is set up (guiding principles) but can work within other aspects where regulations for one region don't impact the province as a whole. It's how the system here works, hence the discussion.
@@jensenflyfishing Thanks for the reply Dave. Amelia and you do a fantastic job of promoting our game. You produce the highest qualities fishing videos bar none, and have given me countless hours of entertainment and numerous helpful tips over the years. My favourite one is to wear quick-dry nylon hiking pants in the warmer weather, instead of waders or shorts!! Jeff
@@jensenflyfishing definitely mixed emotions of inspired and a little defeated. A coalition will be needed for many watersheds across the province like this one.
@@andytchir8601 it's a tough future but it can be as it was. No reason not with a group of like minded people. The WONDERFUL thing as seen here is how many people feel the same. Back in the day it was literally lone wolves trying to round up enough support and awareness to make change. Today? Heaps of like minded people and easy communication and inclusion platforms. That's a massive positive change!
Just fished it yesterday, it needs to be protected and vehicle access points limited. Watched people quadding in the river and was very disappointed. It is truly one of the prettiest rivers I have ever fished.
100% is that. All as you shared. The good news is you didn't have to observe the heydays of ATVs by the dozen running up the canyon at Lynx Cr. It deserves so much more love than we can give it within the confines of a set of government policy guidelines that headquarters policy rams down our bios & system's throats.
Alberta needs to ban treble hooks on these catch and release streams. There is no reason to use a lure with 2-3 treble hooks to catch native cutthroats or bull trout. Especially this year with the warm water temperatures. Just a few weeks ago I saw a spin fisherman catch a rainbow on the Bow and he hooked him so badly be couldn’t get the hook out. I ran over to help but it was too late the fish had been laid out on the rocks for 10 minutes in the sun. I walked away shaking my head before turning back to see them putting the fish in a ziploc bag. They got a visit from a conservation officer and hopefully learned a lesson.
Amen. And huge streamers with barbs or trailer hooks. But first and foremost an East Slopes Fish Handling & Ecology Understanding course. No license unless you pass the course, full stop
I’ve been learning to fly fish for around three years now and I’ve gone to the ram every year for 2 years now and even in that 2 years there has been so much change there people driving through the rivers and just throwing garbage wherever they please and to be honest I don’t think the government will do anything about this but people who are well educated need to teach the next generation to be better but it seems like nobody cares for the outdoors now a days and if this stays the same way there’s not gonna be anything for the next generation and this video really hit home
100%. The biggest issue right now is the disconnection of Albertans to giving a damn, and there is a massive disconnect from Albertans to leadership in this realm. The gov and the outdoor lobby groups are missing what's needed: grass roots communication and inclusion in connecting reality of our environment. 100% to what you expressed. 🍻
The other problem with poor management- if you look at the extirpated regions at 23:42 it limits where people can fish. So anyone who goes fishing HAS to fish the same crowded pressured spots, further stressing the fish. The more opportunity and choice the more chance for growth and biodiversity. This is happening almost everywhere. Great videos. Documenting the amazing places you've fished are an enjoyment with my morning coffee. I might be watching them 20 years from now as documentaries of what the Earth used to be.
100% to that. I'm already watching my own videos and photo albums to see what it used to be. BUT/AND could still be with any kind of effort from the community to force the government's hand. It doesn't have to be lost. But there's zero chance unless we push for change that a 20 year old cutthroat will swim those waters again in how they're being treated. I would rather see floating, single hook, barbless lure only with a Trout Ecology & Handling course and see far reduced catch rates with a chance of larger & older trout than see what's being eroded and down-graded daily right now. We can't keep dumbing this planet down.
well done guys we have issues back here in nz in our high country waters which you are intimate with and the angling community is becoming increasingly concerned with sustainability catch and release is frowned on by many misinformed anglers and its good to see actual results rather than the river bs that often surrounds fishery management
The funny thing about "all those" big fish in those headwaters in NZ... the total biomass of trout per KM is eerily the same as here. How do you want your biomass? 3 to 6 x 6 to 10+lb trout or 30 x 1lb avg? I do know in talking to F&G a few times that the C&R concern is PETA's influence on playing with fish and they are very concerned about that public perception backlash. Surely more 1 fish under 50cm as is the case on additional waters would help. But I really think that NZ is a prime example of inherent need of a trout ecology & handling course. Understanding things like water temperatures (sorry, this is pathetically missing in NZ trout management & awareness and is critical in so many regions peak of summer low flows & heat), carrying capacity, age of fish, total populations, fish movement, etc. That, combined with severe habitat issues surrounding AG industry and a cap on int'l tourists and guides pounding the exact same water over and over (last mouse year a well known N Canty guide was up the Hurunui a dozen trips before the end of November). Lots of obvious things but we have to care for the trout over our own wants and egos. And be willing to fight through policy red tape and complacency of gov agencies that might otherwise be obsessed with things like salmon.
@@jensenflyfishing thanks for that responce i am in the process of standing for election to the north Canterbury fish and game council and share your sentiments so i hope you dont mind that i have shared your reply with my fly fishing club and the CEO of northcanterbury fg
@@kenlloyd5195 perfect! Imagine if we all had to understand Ecology and handling of our trout in order to get a license. In fact, wouldn't it tie in perfectly with the freedom camping and int'l tourists issues? Anyway, nothing I'm saying is absolute in my mind, just conversation concepts. All the best with elections and coming motions, esp in Canty. That's such a diverse and popular region with all sorts of issues and considerations. 😊🍻
I love your concern for the fish. It made me feel good about people, but sad for the fish. I hope the next generation picks up your mission and gets the RAM protected. Too many people just want to take and don't give a shit about the consequences. Great cause and great video!
Thank you! I know we'll be apprised and questioned for support when this idea gains traction... and it has to at some point, right? 🤔 hope so! I think we're turning in a new direction in advocacy - social influence and sharing of ideas in hopes they can be embraced and adopted. Here's hoping more people care enough to voice things forward 😊
Passionate, heartfelt and genuine. Thanks for fighting the good fight. Is there value in adopting a "pay to play" regime much like BC's classified waters system? I realize the enforcement piece is a challenge.
Can't be any other way! :) The future will have to include an educational component like a trout ecology and handling module to a license and very possibly a day fee or some additional management fee. It's sad but be it today or 20 years from now our free to roam and do as we wish is about at an end. Not absolutely but any change from what we have and do now is going to rock & shock the populace.
When I think of conservancy of a river and it's fish population, I come across a few elements which each have an "Impact" and "Solvable" score. # of People (High Impact / Barely Solvable) Catch & Release (High Impact / Solvable) Tackle/Bait Restrictions (Med Impact / Solvable) Seasonal Closures (Med Impact / Solvable) Fish Handling Training (Med Impact / Barely Solvable) Thoughts on those grades? and also, thoughts on how the Elk Creek drainage/Fernie handles their conservancy efforts?
Some great points and all of those are considerations enveloped in Fisheries management processes and decisions - especially when considering that land use/ recreation is under a different department and encompasses so many more variable and demands. The # of people issue on a river like the Ram is actually very solvable. Create a Public Land Use Zone that allows ATV/4X4 access at 2 locations in the canyon. Remove commercial use of the river (guides & helicopters). Force people to walk. If it gets too busy and it impacts experiential values then create designated camp locations and employ a Smith River style ballot system. There is a ton to be said for access control - but it is not yet politically expedient in Alberta though my $ says that time will come before I'm dead. The same could be said for most of Alberta's trout streams. So too the entire S Island of New Zealand, tbh. Catch & Release - think you nailed it. The tackle equation... with 15 to 20% mortality on hardware I think it's impact is potentially severe in low populations of slow growth trout. Hence anything west of #22 has long been begging for C&R. 100% solvable as you mention - think through a "floating lure only" regulation as it pertains to bulls and cold day cutts and your hooking mortality goes way down. I can see something like that in the mid-distant future. Seasonal Closures I'd say you got it, argue the fine points water to water I guess. Fish Handling - I think is one of the highest impacts and moderately solvable. Make it a prerequisite to a license to have to 80% pass an East Slopes Trout Ecology & Handling Course and you've just bridged a lot of fish to live longer. Please don't take my replies as absolute either - it's just bloody refreshing that we're talking about this stuff and - unlike when I lobbied to get the Ram C&R or start Streamwatch - it's not just me and one or two people trying to create awareness and round up support! That is the win in all this - just look at the replies here & in our social feeds, it's absolutely refreshing to see the societal interest and involvement levels. Re: the Elk... we're not too far from having no choice on some of our waters...
@@jensenflyfishing - appreciate the reply, I'm down in Colorado (but family from Alberta) where we see rivers facing similar issues and (in my mind) a similar minded governance/population who demands access and limited governance. Regarding the desire for a "East Slopes Trout Ecology & Handling Course" - the cynic in me thinks that would be more effective in limiting people (who won't take the time to show up for a class) rather than have a large impact on handling. Seems like a good way to limit anglers and improve fish handling....though I think governance of it (having to show a card/stamp on your license) may be challenging. I'd love if more rivers had mandatory "hike ins", all the best rivers in Colorado now require that but sadly there are two few of them. It's amazing how hiking in changes your mindset to immediately appreciate/love the surroundings compared to rolling out of a car/ATV and the casualness/naivety that accompanies that type of access.
Come on Alberta get your act together, we only get one chance at this. 25 inch cutthroats should be experienced by everybody that understands the beauty of them. Great video guys, that looks like a super special place and I hope the right path can be taken whilst at the crossroads again.
Hope so! Part of the trouble is going to be the old guard's "it's not my idea" and "it won't work" instead of seeing the issue and trying... so we'll see if action dies before anyone gains steam and traction. Egos & dismissiveness often kill momentum and good ideas. Hope for the best!
This is not what I grew up with as well Rick. The South Ram below the falls were in our day (in the 80's).... unreachable, or took some hard core fly fishermen to do the adventure. Same is happening on the North Ram. I haven't fish for a while but an early spring adventure this year to Cripple, Onion and Phillip creek tributaries showed just a few fingerlings. This river system has always been a fight. I did one of the first studies with a University Of Alberta biologist, every thing you have said was known at that time, and the fear of what would happen to this pristine fishery on the Eastern Slope if it was not catch and release with barbless hooks. We fought off oil and gas, mining and logging. Hopefully all will change for the future.. let's keep up the fight.
Ah, yeah. It's exceptionally unfortunate. Every time it comes up I struggle to know what to say. Obviously when I share I do so knowing so many feel the same and have done their part. My voice is mine, yours of you and hopefully we can convince those in charge to look at the politicians - we can chant cumulative impacts all we want but the truth is that there has been one constant cause and culprit: politicians that continue to sell our rivers and environment and over-allocate and our current ones perpetuating the cycles while refusing to rollback what is needed in order to keep what we have.
@@jensenflyfishing You do and speak for all of us that are now silent, may thanks to you and Amelia for the work, education and relentless passion. Breaks my heart to hear about spin rods on such an endangered rivershed.. but its big business for retailers and tourism alike. The North Ram River is the story of a fishery that never was. A preliminary Biological Survey of the river in 1952 turned up only Longnose Dace (Miller/Paetz). The biologist at the time recommended the introduction of Cutthroat Trout and Rocky Mountain Whitefish for this cold water fishery, Westslope Cutthroat Trout from Southeastern B.C. were first stocked in the river in 1955, might of been some Lohonton cutts in the mix as well.. This was followed up by repeat stockings in 1961 and 1970. After the river was first stocked, fishing was allowed on odd numbered years. However, angling pressure was intensive during open years, contributing to stock depletion. My fist experience was in 1978. And partly introduced it to the likes of Gary LaFontaine, Jack Dennis and Mike Lawson at the FFF Conclave in Calgary in the 80's, proud of our Alberta treasure. As it would be, to save the stock, recommend catch and release regulations were placed on the river and its tributaries in 1982, at a time when there were many guys in green looking for barb hooks on the beaten path to inforce such regulations. The Cutthroat Trout have been thriving under these regulations, with catch rates as high as 4 to 6 fish per hour in some years. The opportunity to catch a 50 cm Cutthroat Trout was real at the time on this river now bigger with a smaller population. There were times of pools of 50 to 100, 8" to 12" fish, just waiting for that elusive BWO hatch after a hot days thunderstorm, a sight to behold. They were harder to get to espically under the falls, beacuse of the rough terrain, protected to live and grow. They survived gravel pits, chemical mining, redd erosion and a multitude of logging trucks along the river banks. A 25 year fish is a true miracle. Regulations will have to be stricter and tributaries will have to be prestine for the species survival, not to mention handling when caught. Thanks for the inspirational awareness and doing what you do so well... Thank You.
We need more protection for all of east slopes water. It's a world class fishery that is very fragile, whether you are an angler, hiker, or outdoor enthusiast more of us need to step up and be heard.
There is that but then there is the question of the perspective of whose version of caring is the standard. Is it to seal it off and keep people from using it or opening it to everyone and watching it fall apart? To close it and seal it off or develop it into a park and campgrounds everywhere and change it forever... some tough decisions ahead, which are well behind the political decisions long ago made to allow forestry, o&g, grazing and more.
The entire subject of RUclips and other media fishing channels has been controversial to say the least. Many like myself view it positively, seeing it as beneficial for education, instruction, and conservation awareness. Many others see it negatively, just more reasons for "the masses" to come in and ruin special places and the river in general. Do you guys see the media fishing channel revolution as a good thing for conservation awareness?
Hmmm, social media channels, fly fishing forums, magazines, guide books, government pamphlets, travel guides and booking agents, fly shops, fly fishing expos, tv, fly fishing film festivals and more... takes us back to about 1920. When did it start, when does it stop? For us it has been so much more for sharing & educating but of course we can't ignore the people that want to try to hot spot our videos. The plain reality is that everywhere has good fish if you look for them, hunt them and know what you are doing. Chasing another angler's magic is so futile, wrought with frustration and just boorish. But it happens. I think where it comes to education on many levels this medium is fantastic. Without digital the Ram never goes Catch & Release, Streamwatch here in Alberta never happened. Digital has had so many profound positives. We just need to convince government to release the full potential and force people to do things like take a trout ecology & handling course before allocating angling licenses. Imagine that world.
@@jensenflyfishing , this is a topic that some media channel anglers would rather shy away from discussing, and I know some personally. So that being said, I truly appreciate the response. Saving a river, or even just preserving it is such a monumental task, and most of us take for granted the work that goes on behind the scenes. For the longest time, I saw such a huge disconnect between the gear world and the fly-fishing world in terms of conservation awareness. It's sad, we get the label of "elitist", but those that mock are often clueless they are actively destroying their own playgrounds. But going back to media again, I believe there is a growing trend of responsibility. Even in the gear world, I see more and more anglers that strive to be fish advocates first and content creators second. Well-informed enthusiasm and passion for nature can be quite contagious. Maybe there's some hope. Anyways, I think it goes without saying that you two have done a wonderful job at contributing to the world of fly-fishing, in all the arenas. I think it is safe to say, the community thanks you. Also, I fully support the publication of your next article!
@@realityobservationalist7290 thanks for all that. And remember I am 100% imperfect at that. There was one reply in this thread that I went off a little heavy on and feel badly about, and that's my imperfection and anxiety on this. But that also ties in to something very important to keep in mind on these channels - raising issues, taking stands, sharing passion... leads to what you see here and our FB/IG pages.... HEAPS and REAMS of replies and considerations and literally days of effort in replying to everyone, encouraging them, addressing objections from people that you thought would be on your side, etc. It's wrought with emotion and passion and channels that don't have the involvement, history, reputation, effort and involvement in process simply would get cratered in with critique and judgement. So I/we do think they need be cut some slack too, especially in this age of cancel culture. We took a huge risk in even sharing this. It's a huge amount of effort to address each comment and honor each person with a thoughtful reply, and we feel honor bound to do so because it is such a valuable topic to everyone. Heck, we could continue this conversation as a side stream a long ways too! All the best. Dave
Given how much pressure is in these streams and how little time between anglers hitting pools on weekends, they're being hit anyway. If you move to another pool and the next group or angler replaces you and you them, do the fish ever get reprieve in a game of leap frog? If even one of 10 anglers or groups is killing a high % of fish and the others none, that could still easily outpace that stream's capacity to grow trout. We need an East Slopes Trout Ecology & Handling course as prerequisite to a license:)
@@jensenflyfishing this is exactly why I always try to take proper care of my fish. Wet hands, keep the fish in the water facing up stream, and hooks with no barbs to reduce time handiling the fish
@@sanjaychalupiakoutdoors9061 it is wonderful you are conscientious about it and that's all we can hope for. We all continue to improve in what we do and how we conduct ourselves. We're no different. So if it is in you to see the need for good fish handling and want to continue to improve, that is wonderful. Thank you! :)
I love your passion about this river and it’s watershed. We’re fighting a similar, but different fight on the Deschutes in Oregon. Different in the details, but similar in that, to paraphrase Dave Hughes, in that it’s the anglers and and residents who love the river enough to fight for it.
100%. It's hard to watch right now but we literally moved from Central Alberta to southern Alberta to ensure we didn't remain enmeshed in fisheries politics, so we could get back to enjoying fly fishing fully again. We're never going to be mentally free because I can't step into a river without seeing its issues, but at least we are free to explore and share and less mentally oppressed these days :)
Maybe something similar to the Alberta Hunters Education program. Before you can harvest most animals in Alberta, you must take your Alberta Conservation and Hunter Education Program. Something along the same lines, but for anglers could be beneficial. But that would only go so far.
and incredibly easy to implement online via video courses on the subject. And take it further to get people to understand ecosystems, growth rates, why C&R, carrying capacity. Unless someone sees this and carries it forward tho it's all digital ink.
It has come to the point where eastern slopes streams fishing regulations have to be even more restrictive., "Single barbless dry fly only" has to come to be be. I'm an avid fly fisherman and have been thought by those who took me under their wing that there is no other way acceptable way to fish for cutthroat other than dry flies. Nymphing, gear/spin fishing etc creates unnecessary pressure and excessive damage on a delicate fishery. I was at first resistant to agreeing with my friends on dry fly only regulations as I saw it as elitist but now, especially after watching your video, I'm in total agreement with them.
when I first saw a fellow out of Rocky Mountain House posting photos of fish he was catching below Ram Falls with big streamers I really wanted to say something. Before that era literally zero fish had hooking scars. Recall I caught those fish 10 to 45+ times each literally with barbed hooks. If you know how to handle fish and fish with care to the fish and not just to catch something the barbed/less debate is moot. But boy what % of anglers fish that way? Since the time I first saw images of him fishing streamers and in the evolution since every fish over 10" is beaten to hell. They literally stand zero chance right now to get to 3 years without mouth deformation. Ditto the east slopes in general. So while I will sit here and tell you the barbed/less debate is moot if you know how to handle fish, we have zero option but to dumb it right down. And it really will eventually come down to single, floating, barbless lure only at some point. That sun is rising rapidly. I don't think we have to limit #s yet but by God we have a long way to go in educating people about the basics of biology, ecology, carrying capacity, slow growth, old aged... and the social media anglers' eyes glaze over....
Knock on the doors of the Bow River Trout Foundation and spread the word about the need for an East Slopes Trout Ecology & Handling Course as prerequisite to getting a license to fish the east slopes. :)
This is a delicate issue. Here in Europe good waters with trout are all privatised. You have to pay to fish (often limited numbers per day) or even off limits for everyone except the owner and his buddies. Do you want that to happen here too? Do you want to keep the rivers open for anyone with good intentions or keep it only for fly anglers? This last option sounds too 'elitist-ical'. Education is the key. I've never been to the Ram river but I've heard about it from a friend who fished it long ago. The view is spectacular. I hope Alberta makes a wise choice.
No matter the gear, the objective here is that it is public water but public water in which we have an onus to protect and minimize our actions. Spin fishing is shown to have a 15 to 25% mortality rate depending on your study. If you have a low population of fish and high mortality, does that make sustainability possible in wild trout management? No. The reality is that a Trout Ecology and Handling Course needs be a prerequisite to being granted a license. That, truly, would be a massive step forward. We'll see what happens and where this goes.
I'm with you guys on this. I think a single barbless hook makes a big difference on releasing a fish to keep it alive and healthy. We have that regulation of some of our wild trout steams here in California. Fortunately, most fishermen I see on these rivers do their best to follow the regulations. When my son and I have gotten the opportunity, we have been able to fish on a privately owned section of one of these creeks. On the privately section it's dry fly, single hook, catch and release only all year. Guess what? On the private section which runs for about 2 miles, the fish that we have caught have been bigger and healthier that those we have caught on the public section.
Access control and regulations work! Here in Alberta we have a free for all access, access everywhere and ATV use to every part in between. We can make changes. Thanks!
What to do with a foul hooked fish on a catch and release river i get lot of foul hooking while nymphing especially small ones i read an article they don’t survive even if practiced proper catch and release technique especially hook in belly and gill area even muscle hooked ones can easily catch infections and die later
perhaps consider single nymph rigs, or using shorter droppers. Perhaps even consider an attempt with a dry fly. Double or triple nymph rigs or long dropper rigs have higher chance of foul hooking a fish.
As stated below really look at your set up and what is fouling fish. Droppers do it a lot but tandem rigs are brutal unless you really space them. But definitely let it go - even dead it will feed the ecosystem. Truth is that in cold water trout can heal - lots of odd scarring on trout that heals and the same fish miraculously pulls through and lives many years. Bottom line is that we don't know and all we can do is examine our actions, adjust and then do our best upon release. Cheers
I think we should look into making fly fishing only rivers in Alberta that see this pressure. Especially with the de wilding and with that crown land camping page that has just made the crown land more of a zoo that it was before and got more people who don’t care or don’t know the regulations out on these rivers.
Piggy that with an East Slopes Trout Ecology & Handling course as prerequisite to a license and you've got it! :) Even if if didn't go pure ff... single hook... whatever the first radical step is then let's get on it.
I am a fly fisherman and I find this comment ridiculous. Interesting how some fly fishers believe that the worth of a person is based on what type of fishing rod that they use. I have come across many fly fishers in my travels of the Grande Cache, Hinton, and west central Alberta areas that also have no understanding of regulations, proper fish handling, etc.
@@kylehandziuk5794 hence why something along the lines of a trout Ecology and handling course should be mandatory as prerequisite to a license to fish the ES. Past that start practicing biology on a watershed to watershed basis that includes community biology input- without anglers eyes and passion it's simply a push of process. And of course that will tie in industry and political processes. But let's start by ensuring the majority of fish return home safely 🍻😊
BC has many flyfishing only rivers and/or sections of rivers and also have water class system for very popular systems to try and limit over fishing, we need to do the same here! But without enforcement it's useless.
Hence why we tried to get Streamwatch to stick. But, alas, the enforcement department killed it. And even if we don't get ff only, then a prerequisite to a license being an East Slopes Trout Ecology & Handling Course should be mandatory. We have to change something
Great video! Fish knowledge and handling it's a thing that everybody must learn, but lots of people don't have the opportunity to learn (people around who can teach, associations that can sensitize young and new fishers). I don't have an answer for that and I don't know how the fishing licenses work in Alberta. In Switzerland we have certificate of capacity for fishing (it's called SaNa). This system is not perfect, but forces people to study and have a minimal knowledge of the fishes and the biology of the streams lakes... At the same time new fishers can speak with associations, experimented fishers and with the wildlife fisheries. Every fisher has to spent 2 days (with a final exam) with certified instructors: the first day is theoretical and the second one is practical (fishing, handling, observation of the biology, insects...). Our streams in Switzerland are not in great shape because of the dams, climate change, pollution in the 70'-80', and the density of population that you don't have in Alberta, but the education of the fishers is good and rarely see people handling bad a fish. thank you for sharing your thoughts and reflexions, cheers from Switzerland
This is 100% the baseline of what we are desperate for here. A Trout Ecology & Handling course. The tools are there to do it - online video modules etc. It's not difficult but our gov refuses to do something so simple as a Trout ID test to issue licenses (and our bull trout were desperate for just that since 1985). It may well come down to something like that in our lifetimes. It's needed right now, but you know glaciers move faster than gov policy. Actually, that's not fair to glaciers these days, they're moving quite quickly thanks to the Alberta oil patch ;)
Maybe it's time for a CW style licensing program in AB... I grew up fishing many of the same rivers you list in this vid - and previous vids - and the pressure, mismanagement and clear lack of enforcement is the worst it's ever been. Also makes me sad for future generations as there is a very real possibility that some of these rivers will be changed forever if we don't open our eyes to what's really going on and change our ways. Is there any organizations or groups you would recommend people follow, join etc that are actually attempting to make change? Interested to hear your thoughts.
100% to all that you shared. All options need be on the table re access, handling, gear type, mandatory education like a trout ecology and handling course prerequisite to an east slopes license, maybe CW on some waters, no commercial use of our most fragile (that means no guiding and no helicopters) amongst other options. It's time to push through our Fisheries Dept doors and force communications and inclusions- those are the cornerstones of biology but they are not being practised in Alberta. Definitely worth getting in with the Bow River Trout Foundation or maybe Trout Unlimited as both have an established seat in the Fisheries Management table process. Thank you for taking the time to reply & consider. It is important ♥️🍻
The unfortunate thing is that people just want to fish with "no strings attached" or the just want to be able to do everything from their computers. Signing documents and showing an online presence is one thing, however, as you said, no one wants to take on a leadership role to protect these fisheries.
100%. People have always wanted zero responsibility, care nor thought to the fish nor future fishing. It has been that way since man bore a rod. As you saw in the video the whole thing has a ton of weight/emotion to it for me and - with all you read with what I've done - I can't do it any more. I'm tapped. But I can try to raise it and hope someone sees it as well and carries it. Fisheries is a great thing to get involved with for A REASON or SEASON but never a lifetime.
We have the same issues in BC. Unfortunately there’s just simply not enough enforcement if any at all. People simply do not pay fishing enough respect, they do not read the regs grab a rod out of the basement and kill every one they catch. People simply do not need to use treble hooks period. People simply do not need to keep fish out of river and creeks like this or in my opinion from any river or stream.
Well Dave, I'll speak up and say I am willing to get involved. I'm sure there are others like me who need some marching orders. I know you've run out of steam to spearhead it, but it sure would be helpful to get a head start and not have to relearn everything you have over your decades of service. I have practical skills and connections in software and web development that I am willing to put to use. Is there some way that we can collaborate together to help nudge observers into action?
I'd look at the Bow River Trout Foundation - get in touch with David Blair at Fish Tales He won't 100% agree with how I've shared this video but most of the substance. I'm definitely here to have my brain picked as an asset re process and ideas but can't commit to procedural stuff. This really needs an existing group to push- and it is going to require a group that has grass roots, isn't afraid to voice a need to close some atv access and use, and is willing to get hands on. TU is also good but they need an arm that allows them to dig in again. Anyway, hope that helps?
I know it might make some people mad, and obviously there are some thumbs down, but that should be fly only, catch and release. Even here in NJ I wish some were fly, catch and release only. There are enough other spots for people to spin fish, even here in NJ in waters that get warm and it's stockers only anyway. Besides, I feel there is more of a connection with nature, the fish etc when using fly. But 100% fish handling is key. It really is sad. Keep up the good fight!
Even floating lure only. If the mgt objective is to reduce hooking mortality and catch rates that would do it. But like everywhere... political will...
Do you know what it takes to get a CO to issue that ticket in this province? If you don't have it all on video and connect the dots at every stage and have proper methodology of collecting evidence as a citizen, there is zero chance that a CO will take that charge on hearsay evidence given the incredibly low probability of conviction. It's great in theory but almost a zero chance of anything other than a CO being put into conflict or the person reporting the incident feeling they're the ones being prosecuted for how much time, effort and questioning coming their way. The above is why so few call it in and why a fraction of those lead to conviction. If the system changes, great, otherwise it's very understandable. 🍻
@@jensenflyfishing Yes just thinking back on those memorable days in my youth and into my thirties brings a tear in my eyes because I just love fishing the passion never goes away I'm pretty much stuck to stocked pond fishing now but hey the tug is the drug
@@jensenflyfishing I remember when I was a young lad no drivers license yet but the brother inlaw took me fishing to the south ram we would stop off at the shunda and by a few flies off a old retired guy Ed if my memory serves me right but anyways ya I couldn't afford a flyrod then so I used my spinning rod a small twig as my float because I thought that looked more natural on the water yes the good old memories
@@michaelmoore2872 the good news is that this winter we'll share a few happy, just joy of fishing videos and hopefully those connect you. 😊 We know that everyone that tunes in here does so for so many different reasons. Sometimes just being a conduit to memories or putting folks on the water is the best reason to share. 😊♥️
It seems like it's just a symptom of the general disrespect for nature. Too many people look at it as something they can do whatever they want with. It is clearly crushing for you to see this happen to somewhere you love.
Rule #1 of the humanity herd: we want what we want, when we want it, how we want it... so give it to me NOW! Fishing is just fishing and really, they are just fish... society's view of things really. What chance does any population have once gov allows access and refuses to change regulations and gear types to meet the pressure?
It's a terrible country where the population has to constantly lobby, cajole, and force the government to do its job. What the heck do they do all day? Why aren't they out patroling the areas and then coming back to the office with an action list? Even if they just watched this video (and others) it might help. This is why we need LESS government, but with actual accountability and responsibility. Fire them all and start over again from scratch.
If the Ucp government mines and logs the crap out of it and destroys the down stream the farmers and towns will bitch but they will still vote for the UCP...because that's what they do. There is no downside for the UCP
Spinner fishing is very similar too fly fishing just got too go single hook in a zero catch limit areas and that’s a lot more fish missing hooks and eating more bugs. Flyfishing shouldn’t be demand too fish on a river bed. Not every area is flyfishable by flys
We'll see what the powers that be come up with. Fish handling is the huge issue, but we can't dismiss the impacts of huge lures and how hard these fish hit them - and that includes big streamers and spin gear. It may come to a floating lure only situation before too long to preclude us from reaching every fish in the river and protect our dwindling numbers.
For rivers like this and any other rivers with low populations of slow growing trout I 100% agree with catch and release. Even on rivers with good wild rainbow populations I release most of my fish. But I will say that in the US it's growing trend to frown upon and even criminalize keeping trout all together and that too is wrong. In healthy rivers with lots of non native browns and rainbows and brookies, there's nothing wrong with keeping a couple here and there trout are delicious and everyone should have the opportunity to eat a wild trout so long as the river can support it. Just don't keep a full limit. Planters are chickens with fins designed specifically for catching an easy limit.
Kind of why this is fairly specific to Alberta's East Slopes & the Ram R as a springboard. We have wild, nat repro only in our flowing waters so the stockies debate is moot. But elsewhere, where there are stockies, that's a whole other discussion that ties into which rivers, how much harvest, to take away pressure from what other waters, how & where to use that as a management tool, etc. :)
@@jensenflyfishing I know, in you're situation I completely understand,wild native stocks definitely need protection. I just wanted to point out that people nowadays often wanna be fish nazis about keeping fish at all even abundant and non native trout. The biggest issue facing trout here is low flows, (fisherman vs. farmer arguments) caused by severe droughts and overuse of the rivers, and in special unique trout streams(paiute cutthroat and golden trout in california are being breed out and competed against by rainbows,browns and brookies for example.) Not knocking your passion and concern for the river I have mine too. Just wanted to call out the fish nazis who over exaggerate and not fully educated on species distribution. Very sad what's going on in Montana right now with all their wild stocks dying off due to low warm flows
@@bssaassin1900 I bet we could both passionately talk for hours and once we set the platforms and variables and influences for our waters we'd not only agree but likely add perspectives and variables and commiserate. Add New Zealand and Patagonia to your list too... the S Island NZ is an agricultural disaster in many regions. I'd say "all the best" but, well, you know... :)
@@jensenflyfishing I hear ya. I'm from northern California fishing for rainbows and browns in the mountains, salmon, american shad and stripers in the valley. And it was a blast but sadly the drought and increased pressure for water is destroying our salmon stalks. I fear that all we're going to be left with is bullshit species like bass,bluegills and catfish. I moved to texas a year ago and I f*cking hate it here. Even the bass fishing here sucks!
@@bssaassin1900 the world is changing so bloody fast. It's a fascinating study of the human brain to keep up with that rate of change, coping and managing our adaptation to government control and mgt and our environment. They say the earth can produce food for 15 to 20B people... but what kind of planet is that going to be?
since the start of covid anyone with $28 in their pocket bought a fishing license and a spinning rod and a dozen treble hooked barbed panther martins fish killers. Then they hook a fish and have it out of the water taking 2-3 minutes worth of selfies. Then they through it back in the water thinking what heroes they are. They leave their garbage everywhere, and just are so out of their element in the back country they should never have left the city.
And what is the answer when the Gov AB's first guiding principle is equal access and use by all Albertans? Ugh. A trout ecology and handling course is about the only thing stopping short of closures...
Your vid made me sad and angry at the same time. I'm sad because I love to flyfish; I dont own any spin gear anymore. In the early 2000's I spent time on the Burnt Timber, the North & South Ram and even the Panther and wouldnt see very many anglers on them. Today, even the Burnt Timber is packed with people chucking metal with no care or understanding of how to handle fish or even what they are catching. And Im angry because our government caters to the lowest common denominator in this province and would never have the balls to declare a beautiful river like the Ram a fly only river even though thats what it would take to protect this river from the inevitable collapse due to fishing pressure.
The light switch truly got turned on to the outdoors the past 2 years and it doesn't look like it's going to be turned off any time soon, save for a massive license fee hike to preclude #s. And that won't go to any new systems of improving or education, it'll just be to replace budgets with our gov. You are spot on with the 'catering to the lowest common denominator' - it's simply what they feel has to happen in order to allow access to all Albertans rather than show leadership as to what needs to happen to ensure viability of what we had. And I am starting to use the right tense in words... our policy managers are simply not smart enough on the community involvement and inclusion side of their profession to find a way to make this work. They're collectively clearly intelligent human beings in what they do within the isolated parameters of fish growths and habitat impacts, etc, but fall so pathetically short on dealing with the public, speaking common language, putting into motion needed common, simple things... in order that angling impacts allow our fish to grow to what could be. It has long been this way and so long as we don't demand an overhaul to the system we have now, this is what we'll continue to get.
Great video. I think there are many cultural complexities to this issue. There are differing views on the purpose of going fishing. I think some of these views automatically render those who hold them concerned about the fish and ecology. Other views on the purpose of fishing simply do not lead to this aforementioned mentality. How do you get people to care about the tragedy of the commons? Can you? Or are the answers mostly on the institutional side and cultural fixes are very at the margin?
There are really 3 cultures at play. People that didn't grow up fishing and understanding these waters. People that grew up elsewhere and just see fishing as fishing and any old Rapalla will do - and land/handle the fish like a warm water fish. And people that grew up immersed in trout / cold water species culture and get what it takes to grow such fish and keep them in the system. If we had a trout ecology/handling course requirement pre-license issuance you at least get a chance to filter people. And if you're worried about losing license fees there will be plenty of opportunity to make that up in CO tickets for fishing without a license.
Sadly it's all along Alberta's east slopes... and rampant on NZ's waters... and and and... we need to do something to extoll the true value & sensitivity of our trout populations and their habitat.
Oh we fished. But the message as shared here was far too important so we made a video of the needed message. We''ll share the fishing sometime this winter
If you did that combined with an East Slopes Trout Ecology & Handling Course as prerequisite to a license to fish the ES then we'd buy ourselves a few psi off the pressure on these fish certainly
To be honest, the Alberta Native Trout Recovery Program in ~2017 would have been vastly more effective protecting our native species... The best way to allow a river to recover is to have 0 fishing pressure, but even C&R fishermen that care about the rivers won't take the pledge to allow a river to recover. There was leadership to create this recovery program, but high profile fishermen put down this program. Oh well. P.S. I'm aware that the Ram wouldn't be covered under that legislation, but if the ability to take off angling pressure for a few years implicated stream health, I'm sure some other rivers would be recruited into the program and allow to "heal".
100% false. Sorry. The NCNT program completely gave up. The 5 year closure as proposed for the Ram, Berland, Kakwa, and one or two others was our biologists admitting they have zero clout and influence and opted to not communicate and include anglers - it was out Fishries Dept admitting they have zero clue about the most important part of biology: community & communication. The department still refuses to go on any kind of inclusion & communication campaign. The issue has always been that our biologists refuse to have backbone publicly to talk to people about the ramifications of the political decisions being made and he impacts of industry - and you can't say that without saying that politicians have long failed our env and biologists by creating a Fisheries mgt system that snuffs out our bios. BUT, as we saw with the coal mines this past year the bios and Fisheries policy team were deadly silent. Ask yourself how much trust you have in a dept that is willing to close rivers to angling but not scream at the prospect of coal mines? And... you might have noticed how that Pembina 5yr closue is going to turn into a permanent one. They have zero answers and refuse to communicate, to include. Our bios, politicians and industry in this province need to get back to the table, roll back access, continue the great beginnings of stream crossing repairs, set up better buffers, improve fishing regulations that make virtually everything 'trouty' C&R as well as ensuring anglers are educated in trout Ecology and handling while eliminating treble hooks, while further eliminating the use of ATVs as tools to access distant waters. That's why the NCNT program was an abject failure - these kinds of actions to a plan were simply thrown out, hopeless.
As a PS to this ask yourself how much you trust the FSI maps when the new wave of biology includes incredibly little field work and pigeon holes timing of field work? Their work on the Ram R bulls was last done at peak heat & drought instead of pushing it to wait for migrating conditions, with field work done by people that simply should not have been doing certain functions. When your sampling methods wreak of lack of control and consistent variables you leave yourself wide open to criticism. Further, when I chased Emergency Stream Closures for a decade we had a ton of great ideas to include anglers and community, to set different parameters and to help the public understand the process and be vigilant & involved. Instead the head policy bio stifled it all and simply stated "I've decided I'm going to do this" and didn't bother to engage at all. It was brutal. The closed doors of our Fisheries Mgt system need kicking open.
@@jensenflyfishing Okay, I previously replied but deleted it as I was quite frustrated at the situation. I'm aware that I will never change your mind, but I'm sorry...1st, as someone trained in forestry, I am disappointed to hear you stating that what I said is 100% wrong. I would assert that this level of hubris is concerning coming from a forestry scientist. Furthermore, the 5-7 year closure had much merit behind it, as the Joe Modelling System which determines FSI is a WORKING hypothesis for management - there is so much nuance behind the system that evades many people. It is a system that relies on anecdotal experience (like you present), academic findings, and indigenous historical knowledge. Wouldn't it be interesting to see how a fishery would evolve after an experiment like the NCNT? Wouldn't the control (elimination) of angling pressure present a stronger case against industry damage? Yes, politics has a huge influence on how allocations of fisheries money can be spent, however do you truly believe that many organizations (TUC, AEP, AER, and DFO) would all seem to support the development of this novel means of management to approach such a sensitive provincial fishery? Of course there are individual exceptions, and I'm sure there is some "snuffing" that occurs.... but do you really truly believe it is all industry motivated? I genuinely believe the fisheries bios are always pushing for what's best to the level they can. But angler voice is something that has to always be taken into consideration, hence why many things aren't passed. Asked yourself this, if the NCNT recovery program was instated, wouldn't there be at least some benefit to having zero angler pressure as I stated in the previous paragraph? Of course it would, how couldn't it?! Every time I pose this to an angler, they always "bait and switch" the argument and point fingers at industry, as you did as well. I don't deny that industry has huge impacts and our provincial government does push for development over sustainability, but the doesn't nullify the argument that C&R pressure has negative implications as well! Anyone that disagrees with that needs to re-evaluate their opinion. I suggest reading the paper: Can smartphones kill Trout? Mortality of memorable-sized Bull Trout (Salvelinus confluentus) after photo-releases by Joubert et al. 2020. awaredoesn't To address your post script, I'm aware that some of the sampling of the Ram River bulls may be considered inappropriate but there are so many confounding variables to getting great population estimates. What would your main sampling means be for evaluating confluentus populations? Wouldn't you think that they try their best to get the best data possible? As someone formerly in forestry I would assume that you came across the great problems in population estimates, and that's with in situ organisms! noteworthy thingGindianDupes" progress on not gilling mature brown trout. First of all, yes proper universal handling practices should be applied to C&R, but also the veneration of non-native species seems concerning. Anyway, I respectfully stand by my words and appreciate the art you provide. I also have no affiliation with any of the organizations I stated. I am simply stating what I know as a practicing aquatics biologist. Cheers.
@@zachvydra9309 Hi and thank you for continuing the conversation. However, it's a little contrite and insulting to suggest I've baited and switched. So now that you've divested your pov, let's get into it. First, it's important that you and anyone else reading understands that the North Central Native Trout Initiative model and plan to close many trout waters for 5 years was sent for independent review. The NCNT initiative was publicized by the Alberta Government but the review result was shared only with Fisheries RoundTable process. The review process determined that the "science" behind the model was "junk science" and our Fisheries Mgt promised to do better. Nowhere did the GOA come out in public and state that they had severely messed up - hence why the public remains under the assumption that it was a good plan. Secondly, the NCNT had been called out by the group of retired biologists and ADMs for not only being junk science but also because it literally threw in the towel and offered no hope, no progress, no moving forward opportunity in community nor communication. Third, because your deleted post questioned my qualifications and history of involvement... speaking of the group of retired bios, they and another group approached me to represent their groups in the Fisheries Mgt process formerly known as the Round Table. Not because I'm smarter, goodness no, but because they didn't want to be continually drawn into process that they spent their careers in. That and they know there needs to be good communication & inclusion in this province and there are few that have our reach, influence, longevity & reputation in these regards. From there we have to ask: did you happen to notice the complete lack of communication and inclusion from the GOA biologists and HQ policy since the ncnt? Almost none publicly. Any actions to affect meaningful change aside a few very small test projects? There are a couple of pet projects in extremely minor locations. Did you hear any voicing from hq policy staff or bios against the coal mines even though they were so pressing to preclude angling from these waters? Did you notice the temporary 5 yr closure in the Pembina is now being indefinitely continued, likely for 10 to 20yrs as would have been the case for the ncnt closure proposals? Did you notice that our bios gave up even trying to work with industry and anglers to seek ways to work to find solutions like an East Slopes trout Ecology and handling course as prerequisite to getting a license? Did you notice our bios gave up trying to co-ordinate communications of needed habitat band aids and fishy issues? So many things could be done but they threw in the towel and abandoned ship instead. Hindsight says that if they'd done the above we'd have more involved and invested eyes and voices to support rapid changes as needed to manage for covid impacts. Instead they the bed and their credibility. The closed doors of Fisheries mgt and policy as they so remain aren't going to get us anywhere. They absolutely side stepped the most important part of the science of biology: community, communication & inclusion. I don't know who you are nor experience and qualifications but science cannot look past the populace and just "do science". The only reason science exists in fisheries is because of human impact and use of fisheries. And that leads to the most important discussion of all: You cannot simply close waters to fishing. Jessica's model essentially led to the conclusion that we either have angling or industry, not both. If you want to bring back native trout species to what they were you simply have to remove all human activity. Ergo, Forestry that builds rods and dumps sedimentation into rivers (and the early days of the FMA in the Ram were absolutely atrocious as documented by Friends of the West Country), opening the forest canopy leading to super-heating of formerly cold water environs (which led to mid to late 90s Fisheries staff needing to plan in advance for a changing and warming headwaters and managing new species - a complete difference from this model). Oil & gas does the same and usually leads the way into former wilderness. Cattle trampling of 3, 4, 5, and 6th+ order tributaries. And that's just today's green zone. We have to look at the FSI maps and realize how far east our bull trout and grayling went historically. In order to bring them back to historic levels you have to eliminate dams on the Belly, St Mary, Waterton, Oldman, Bow, Red Deer, Kananaskis, Spray, NSR and others. And land conversions to ag need be rolled back. You simply cannot solely eliminate angling, esp while coal mines are now on the table and forestry and o&g explorations continue. To your points of C&R... between politicians hyper-allocating resources that open access to those same politicians creating a system whereby biologists cannot say anything opposing government policy to biologists buying into that and not rocking the boat in order to retain job security and pensions, to industry through the late 2000s claiming they didn't have to lead on access issues and their ongoing piss poor performance on stream crossings to that point... you end up in a place where bios, politicians and industry all shirked taking ownership of the most basic, obvious responsibility - that if people are allowed to drive and atv everywhere and if everywhere is opened up that people will use it. And once a herd gains access and spreads, a herd is impossible to stop. The sheer lack of pro-active planning and execution in the politician/industry/biologist triangle has failed miserably. There would be ZERO need for C&R on the S Ram, for example, had there been proactive planning and taking of ownership. That's one example (used given the video's focus). Am I side-stepping anglers' use of the Ram fishery? No. hence why in every single comment in this thread I'm calling for an East Slope Trout Ecology & Handling Course. That's why this video is begging for gear restrictions. That's why in this video and our FB/IG & YTube feeds the conversation has awakened.
Quite the sad scenario. Sorry to hear about this, the river you care so much about and fought so hard for. Would be delighted to see a group spring into action and fight for her. It would be a noble and enlightening cause.
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I think before you get your alberta fishing license there should be a 1/2 day course on fishing handling, identification of fish and what gear to be used to eliminate the mortality rate of these fish.
100%. An East Slopes Trout Ecology & Handling Course should be mandatory. The tools are there to screen those who refuse. You don't want to put the effort in to understanding our impact, you don't fish. Done. And that would lead to so much more ticket revenue potential of course :)
That's a great idea. When I was a kid, you couldn't get a hunting license unless you attended a course and then passed a test. Should be exactly the same for fishing.
Your most important lesson yet. Long leaders, mending with your feet, slow and quiet approaches, the importance of line control, smudge hunting, and always giving it a go; none of those valuable lessons will matter much if we don't make the efforts/sacrifices required to preserve the resource. As a well known Canadian folk singer once wrote, "Don't it always seem to go
, That you don't know what you got 'til it's gone, They paved paradise and put up a parking lot". Thanks for reminding us of what we had, what we have, and what we stand to lose with complacency.
All true! Especially complacency and second guessing as you see in the fellow's comments immediately above yours 🍻
Hey Dave, seeing this video made me really happy. I’ve fished this river for about a decade now. My family and I as well hold this river in a special place in our hearts. Knowing other people have similar respects for this river is amazing. I remember catching the same fish here years in a row as well. It’s changing now and I see more and more anglers which is good if they treat the river and fish right. I hope everyone that fishes this river watches this video. Please handle the fish with care everyone keep this river thriving. I’d love passing this river onto my daughter once she gets old enough to learn but I know it’s not going to be the same if we all don’t work together on this river.
:) The eras have changed and that is a great thing. No longer is it a void in society where people that passionately care wander alone in an echo chamber. Society in Alberta has changed and a massively higher % of people across a broader spectrum of the Alberta society is engaged. It is so easy for people to connect and have their/our voices heard. And that's your daughter's future, which is great. Future videos of this river will focus on the fishing and the experience and hopefully those do the scenery and habitat more justice :)
By a longshot your BEST video. More than the actual words you spoke. The emotion, color and character in your voice said it all. You almost didn’t need to speak a word to understand your passion and heartbreak. Very very much respect from me,as well by most everyone that views this. Thank you!
Thank you for taking the time to watch, to connect, to see and understand all that. It's hard to care and take action then see what turns over time. But it all can be corrected. Hopefully new anglers take things up and connect the same way ♥️ that river will be there long after any one individual of us and needs be passed to he next in better shape than each of us were given. 🍻
I agree! This is my favorite of all the Jensen Fly Fishing videos over the years. Felt like I was there with them and journeying through the years.
I really appreciate your passion, I share them. I’ve been fly fishing for 15 years in Alberta, not nearly as long as you and I’ve seen a big change in the few rivers I fish. It’s hard to watch and this video really puts it into perspective. It’s so unfortunate that fisherman/women do not see it how a lot of dedicated anglers see it. I can tell this is heartbreaking to you and I feel the same.
I would really like to see all river in Alberta catch and release and fly fishing only. Even closing certain rivers that see a lot of pressure from season to season.
Again, thanks for being a voice and showing so much passion.
Ps..I like trout more than most people.
100% and if we can't share our passion and allow it to hopefully have positive moving forward impact then we do ourselves, the resource and others a disservice. I'm sure at some point later this year there will be someone out there leading something along the lines of what we shared here and when we hear of it we'll be sure to share it - hopefully stay tuned! 😊🍻
Thanks for your dedication to positive change.
Always try! :) It applies to conservation as well :)
This video needs more recognition. You need to share this video and make sure the FFT (Fly Fishing Film Tour) knows about this video and will make it a part of the next years film tour. The story of how this river has grown is a perfect demonstration of how others need to push harder and harder to conserve and protect other rivers that may be close to home for us! Really take this video to home and tell your friends about their struggle that Dave and Amelia have gone through and the effort they gone through to make this video public. Also the massive struggle they have gone through to protect these fish. Every one of us watching this video need to take the efforts that they have endured and struggled through, and push hard to instate proper fishing regulations and practices on our own local rivers and streams, especially the native fish we hold so near and dear to our hearts and spend countless days to peruse. These fish are an especially precious resource, and we cannot ever let the human race damper their chances of survival. We need to push as hard as we can to protect the fisheries and insure that these native fish have the best fighting chance to survive and grow to the point where our own grand and great grandchildren are allowed to the same thrill of perusing these fish that we have now. And to allow our own grandchildren the same thrill in the pursuit.
Aw man. Yes and yes and yes. When we see comments like this and others in our feeds... we all know we aren't alone. It renders us speechless because it's all so real and so valuable to each of us. Please share as you can and see fit. Thank you for such a genuine & heartfelt reply and consideration ♥️
I really appreciate this video. And I couldn't agree with it more. Thank you for this
Well, our future is going to look a lot different.
First of all, love all the video's. I love your enthusiasm and passion for this river and how it gets to you emotionally. I support everything you said, I'm not even living in the same continent but feel the same way. We don't have these crystal clear water or rivers, so treasure them.
They are treasures, especially with those fish and geography 😊 glad to hear what we share connects with you and yes, quite a load of emotion and history behind this one. 🍻
All about respect. For the fish, river, environment, you home ( this planet ), future generations and ultimately yourself. Take a pride in your yourself, your sport, your quarry, and it will reward you in ways you can not imagine. Power to you guys. I salute you.
You hit the nail on the head with your words here. Thanks for your thoughts:)
Beautiful video... we need more people like you who actually care about the importance of fish habitat and the care we should take when Cath and Release is present.. we have been fly fishing for years, started back home in Chile🇨🇱 Southern Patagonia and I'm proud to say we have strict rules in order to protect all species.
Keep up the great work👏🇨🇦
Question: Is this the only type of access to this river.. I have heard really bad stories about people leaving their vehicles parked and coming back to broken into vehicles as thieves know you are far away fishing down on river..
Patrick
Edmonton Alberta
Thank you - glad you enjoy and hope you get out to enjoy this one! :) We've not ever had issue with thieves, however, it happens... we suggest not taking too many extras nor extra valuables anywhere to the back country except what's with you. Best self-protect. Happy fall!
Thank You for all that you’ve done. You two and some others have inspired me to fly fish. Been watching your videos for sometime now and I’ve learned a lot from them. I am new to fly fishing been studying up on all content I can get a hold of. I am all about catch and release when it comes to these special fish, handling them with respect and knowing how long to keep them out of water is very important. Hoping to take a class soon with a local Calgary Fly shop so I can gain further knowledge about fly fishing and trout. I appreciate you taking the time to discuss this issue and put together a video. Looking fwd to your next film! 🇨🇦🤙🏾
That's all wonderful to hear. 😊 Handling and gear type is important... % improvements definitely compound, especially in low populations of slow growing and old aged fish! Hope you are having a great summer and are enjoying each fish! 😊🍻
Powerful video, and clearly one close to your heart. I'm sure it's been hard to share the Ram River, and even harder to see it's descent. I hope it finds a more positive state in future years and that you get to see (and enjoy) it.
Thank you. It was tough at first but it was the only way to get it back from complete collapse when the Alberta government allocated oil/gas exploration and forestry tenures. It was a good thing to promote and share it in order to get it back. Now? I think it can legit handle the angling pressure it gets IF people give a damn about the fish and understand the environment they live in. Trouble is that it is Alberta - take it for granted and if it doesn't exist go somewhere else and do something else. The worm is turning on this stuff and the replies and messages incoming dwarf what I saw when doing the original catch & release regulations petition. Far, FAR more awareness today. That's a wonderful thing! But as far as fishing it and returning to enjoying it? Time... I was able to enjoy 2 of our 3 days and then issues hit me square in the face. We'll be back again this fall to try once more. :)
Thanks again for another intelligent video. I thoroughly enjoy your work whether for pure fun or education. I try to fish the North Ram once a year and have for over 25 years it really is a special place. The speed of change is accelerating especially in terms of River access. There are many more resource roads this year including a major one that I assume was for a proposed coal mine. This is allowing more people to drive right to the river. Perhaps we cannot limit public access but I do agree that better fish handling by everyone could be a start. Would you consider doing a detailed video on how to quickly fight fish, solo net them and then unhook and release them?
Thanks
Thanks for taking the time to reply Neil. I bet you've had some wonderful days on the N Ram - it's a wonderful water to pick apart in the subtle lies and pockets. :) A video will be forth coming on handling. Behind the scenes Orvis is formulating some parameters and we've begun to create short pieces here & there that touch on video/photography. Amelia just recorded a podcast with Tom Rosenbauer on Tuesday about fish photography & videography and handling/considerations. That will air soon and we'll share/post it when Tom/Orvis post it. As well, please see another video we just posted this week: ruclips.net/video/Erxd-sgt8vA/видео.html All the best!
Thank you so much for all your efforts. Ive fished my whole life and love all forms of angling but I 'm new (5 years ) to fly fishing and it quickly became my favourite style of angling!! The Ram River is one of the most beautiful rivers Ive had the pleasure of fishing. I would love to help out any way I can, please don't give up. I am willing to help out anyway I can. I would like to get involved.
Good for you getting into fly fishing. If you still spin-fish it is the way to get deep or to catch bigger fish but those dry fly days on the Ram and its cutts are certainly magical ones! Please be sure to connect with Central Alberta Trout Unlimited Canada (TUC) and maybe the Alberta Fish & Game central as well. It's going to take more people to give a damn and get involved to not just keep what we have but to keep the biologists from continuing their biologistitis and close everything rather than fight for our habitat and access issues. Cheers!
@@jensenflyfishing thank you for responding.. I will definitely connect with your suggestions, I would never spin cast for cuttys or bulls I think the fish respond too aggressive and the hooks used inflict too much damage. I wish Alberta would adopt some of the slot limits ( eg: Saskatchewan & Manitoba) on the few rivers and lakes that hold a healthy stock of fish, they seem to restrict keeping the smaller non brood stock and only let you keep a big fish that are generally the breeders ( Cow lake is a good recent example with only allowing a pike over 100cm and a short time later all the big mamma's are gone and now a zero limit is in effect) thats my 2cents!!
looking forward to your next video!!
Cheers!!
PS thankx for keeping Barry Mitchels magazine going!!
@@willyg71 Well, you could spin cutts/bulls but I think I was more thinking browns and bows as I typed :) Alberta certainly has a cookie cutter, one size all, lowest common denominator mgt approach and given how low that LCD is, it's amazing we have the few good fish we do. When the gov guiding principles ensure everyone has equal access no matter how little they care about the resource or other users, we get what we have. Hopefully that changes in our time. Equal access, certainly, but not carte blanche right to abuse based on known parameters of populations. And hopefully Barry's magazine continues on in some form of its spirit well into the future!
Dave, I feel your passion. And your sadness. God only made so many spots like you show here. Thank you two for your hard work. We need more fisherman like you. Never quit fighting though, just regroup and renew. Very best wishes!!
Life has its seasons. Moving to southern Alberta to avoid being in the spotlight and heavily involved has been refreshing. Now, obviously, we still have a lot to say on various matters. More to come. And yes, how many places on earth look like this one with a stunner of a cutthroat trout population? Glorious place, this. :)
I'll be honest, I have never considered the age of fish and that's a really good way to put into perspective what you're protecting! This has certainly lit a fire under me. To speak up and educate those that hear my voice about how to handle fish properly!
We always see the size, don't we? But when you consider age it completely sends understanding on another tangent doesn't it? We all want to catch those fish but we never consider them to be granny & gramps of the population... and we all know how fragile they are and how few get to be so old. We need them in our populations. 🍻 thanks for considering that! ♥️
Dave, thanks for this! Absolutely "YES" to catch and release in this Alberta east slope rivers!
100% :)
@@jensenflyfishing I've fished the Bow, Livingstone, Elbow and Highwood Rivers three years ago. So many fond memories! All catch and release!
I was 8 yrs old in 1970 when my family first camped on the Ram River !. It was a logging road with stones bigger than my fist that would take out the tires , muffler and gas tank . Spinners were our bread and butter and only used , with 1 barbed hook , when trout was the only thing we had for dinner ! . Just the pure experience of being on this amazing river was worth the 3 hour drive with my other brother and 2 sisters . Dad skillfully negotiating the car through the numerous hairpin turns and 200 foot drop off hills , Mom eagle-eyed on the trees watching for cattle , deer , bighorn, elk , bear , moose and telling us to hang on ! Lol ..... Cutthroat were plentiful and it was always catch and release as we only kept what we needed for a dinner of pan fries , 12 inch pan , We might see 3 cars on a long weekend ! and the logging trucks stopped running Friday . They would help u out on Monday if u were stuck . The organizations and sheer number of people that use the river now is unthought of too me . The free camping is out of control and the provincial camping has gotten cheaply sourced , which means expensive to campers ! . My heart goes out to the Ram River and too those who have experienced the finest natural high foothills land that Alberta has claim too ! . I beg that the people of Canada, Do Not consider this land as restorable , restockable, revitalized , renaturalised or for sale ! . The Ram River is not even close to being pristine as it was in 1970 ! and that's with the moratorium on coal mining ! . Keep ur tip up and ur hook in the water eh !
100% perfect. Thank you for piping up! :)
Great video. I have been lucky to fish the South Ram a few times. It is incredible. I agree with every word of yours except your messaging around barbless hooks. I firmly believe that barbs are detrimental, especially when other factors come into play. A smaller wound is just preferable over a larger wound. I can’t wait to return.
the only rebuttal is how barbless ties in to the larger Alberta angling guiding principles and the head of Fisheries on record perpetually that barbless hooks are not on the docket for revisiting. Hence, fight the fights you can realizing that you can't fight how the system is set up (guiding principles) but can work within other aspects where regulations for one region don't impact the province as a whole. It's how the system here works, hence the discussion.
@@jensenflyfishing Thanks for the reply Dave. Amelia and you do a fantastic job of promoting our game. You produce the highest qualities fishing videos bar none, and have given me countless hours of entertainment and numerous helpful tips over the years. My favourite one is to wear quick-dry nylon hiking pants in the warmer weather, instead of waders or shorts!!
Jeff
@@jeffgoldberg6022 the Kiwi way :) All great to hear, thank you.
Thank you for everything. Well done.
Hope it connects with others as well
Awesome video Dave and Amelia. This was fantastic
Thanks - glad you liked it. Hopefully it inspires someone...
@@jensenflyfishing definitely mixed emotions of inspired and a little defeated. A coalition will be needed for many watersheds across the province like this one.
@@andytchir8601 it's a tough future but it can be as it was. No reason not with a group of like minded people. The WONDERFUL thing as seen here is how many people feel the same. Back in the day it was literally lone wolves trying to round up enough support and awareness to make change. Today? Heaps of like minded people and easy communication and inclusion platforms. That's a massive positive change!
@@jensenflyfishing I agree with that. Small changes are all that is needed too.
Just fished it yesterday, it needs to be protected and vehicle access points limited. Watched people quadding in the river and was very disappointed. It is truly one of the prettiest rivers I have ever fished.
100% is that. All as you shared. The good news is you didn't have to observe the heydays of ATVs by the dozen running up the canyon at Lynx Cr. It deserves so much more love than we can give it within the confines of a set of government policy guidelines that headquarters policy rams down our bios & system's throats.
Alberta needs to ban treble hooks on these catch and release streams. There is no reason to use a lure with 2-3 treble hooks to catch native cutthroats or bull trout. Especially this year with the warm water temperatures. Just a few weeks ago I saw a spin fisherman catch a rainbow on the Bow and he hooked him so badly be couldn’t get the hook out. I ran over to help but it was too late the fish had been laid out on the rocks for 10 minutes in the sun. I walked away shaking my head before turning back to see them putting the fish in a ziploc bag. They got a visit from a conservation officer and hopefully learned a lesson.
Amen. And huge streamers with barbs or trailer hooks. But first and foremost an East Slopes Fish Handling & Ecology Understanding course. No license unless you pass the course, full stop
I’ve been learning to fly fish for around three years now and I’ve gone to the ram every year for 2 years now and even in that 2 years there has been so much change there people driving through the rivers and just throwing garbage wherever they please and to be honest I don’t think the government will do anything about this but people who are well educated need to teach the next generation to be better but it seems like nobody cares for the outdoors now a days and if this stays the same way there’s not gonna be anything for the next generation and this video really hit home
100%. The biggest issue right now is the disconnection of Albertans to giving a damn, and there is a massive disconnect from Albertans to leadership in this realm. The gov and the outdoor lobby groups are missing what's needed: grass roots communication and inclusion in connecting reality of our environment. 100% to what you expressed. 🍻
The other problem with poor management- if you look at the extirpated regions at 23:42 it limits where people can fish. So anyone who goes fishing HAS to fish the same crowded pressured spots, further stressing the fish. The more opportunity and choice the more chance for growth and biodiversity. This is happening almost everywhere. Great videos. Documenting the amazing places you've fished are an enjoyment with my morning coffee. I might be watching them 20 years from now as documentaries of what the Earth used to be.
100% to that. I'm already watching my own videos and photo albums to see what it used to be. BUT/AND could still be with any kind of effort from the community to force the government's hand. It doesn't have to be lost. But there's zero chance unless we push for change that a 20 year old cutthroat will swim those waters again in how they're being treated. I would rather see floating, single hook, barbless lure only with a Trout Ecology & Handling course and see far reduced catch rates with a chance of larger & older trout than see what's being eroded and down-graded daily right now. We can't keep dumbing this planet down.
well done guys we have issues back here in nz in our high country waters which you are intimate with and the angling community is becoming increasingly concerned with sustainability catch and release is frowned on by many misinformed anglers and its good to see actual results rather than the river bs that often surrounds fishery management
The funny thing about "all those" big fish in those headwaters in NZ... the total biomass of trout per KM is eerily the same as here. How do you want your biomass? 3 to 6 x 6 to 10+lb trout or 30 x 1lb avg? I do know in talking to F&G a few times that the C&R concern is PETA's influence on playing with fish and they are very concerned about that public perception backlash. Surely more 1 fish under 50cm as is the case on additional waters would help. But I really think that NZ is a prime example of inherent need of a trout ecology & handling course. Understanding things like water temperatures (sorry, this is pathetically missing in NZ trout management & awareness and is critical in so many regions peak of summer low flows & heat), carrying capacity, age of fish, total populations, fish movement, etc. That, combined with severe habitat issues surrounding AG industry and a cap on int'l tourists and guides pounding the exact same water over and over (last mouse year a well known N Canty guide was up the Hurunui a dozen trips before the end of November). Lots of obvious things but we have to care for the trout over our own wants and egos. And be willing to fight through policy red tape and complacency of gov agencies that might otherwise be obsessed with things like salmon.
@@jensenflyfishing thanks for that responce i am in the process of standing for election to the north Canterbury fish and game council and share your sentiments so i hope you dont mind that i have shared your reply with my fly fishing club and the CEO of northcanterbury fg
@@kenlloyd5195 perfect! Imagine if we all had to understand Ecology and handling of our trout in order to get a license. In fact, wouldn't it tie in perfectly with the freedom camping and int'l tourists issues? Anyway, nothing I'm saying is absolute in my mind, just conversation concepts. All the best with elections and coming motions, esp in Canty. That's such a diverse and popular region with all sorts of issues and considerations. 😊🍻
I love your concern for the fish. It made me feel good about people, but sad for the fish. I hope the next generation picks up your mission and gets the RAM protected. Too many people just want to take and don't give a shit about the consequences. Great cause and great video!
Thank you! I know we'll be apprised and questioned for support when this idea gains traction... and it has to at some point, right? 🤔 hope so! I think we're turning in a new direction in advocacy - social influence and sharing of ideas in hopes they can be embraced and adopted. Here's hoping more people care enough to voice things forward 😊
Passionate, heartfelt and genuine. Thanks for fighting the good fight. Is there value in adopting a "pay to play" regime much like BC's classified waters system? I realize the enforcement piece is a challenge.
Can't be any other way! :) The future will have to include an educational component like a trout ecology and handling module to a license and very possibly a day fee or some additional management fee. It's sad but be it today or 20 years from now our free to roam and do as we wish is about at an end. Not absolutely but any change from what we have and do now is going to rock & shock the populace.
When I think of conservancy of a river and it's fish population, I come across a few elements which each have an "Impact" and "Solvable" score.
# of People (High Impact / Barely Solvable)
Catch & Release (High Impact / Solvable)
Tackle/Bait Restrictions (Med Impact / Solvable)
Seasonal Closures (Med Impact / Solvable)
Fish Handling Training (Med Impact / Barely Solvable)
Thoughts on those grades?
and also, thoughts on how the Elk Creek drainage/Fernie handles their conservancy efforts?
Some great points and all of those are considerations enveloped in Fisheries management processes and decisions - especially when considering that land use/ recreation is under a different department and encompasses so many more variable and demands. The # of people issue on a river like the Ram is actually very solvable. Create a Public Land Use Zone that allows ATV/4X4 access at 2 locations in the canyon. Remove commercial use of the river (guides & helicopters). Force people to walk. If it gets too busy and it impacts experiential values then create designated camp locations and employ a Smith River style ballot system. There is a ton to be said for access control - but it is not yet politically expedient in Alberta though my $ says that time will come before I'm dead. The same could be said for most of Alberta's trout streams. So too the entire S Island of New Zealand, tbh. Catch & Release - think you nailed it. The tackle equation... with 15 to 20% mortality on hardware I think it's impact is potentially severe in low populations of slow growth trout. Hence anything west of #22 has long been begging for C&R. 100% solvable as you mention - think through a "floating lure only" regulation as it pertains to bulls and cold day cutts and your hooking mortality goes way down. I can see something like that in the mid-distant future. Seasonal Closures I'd say you got it, argue the fine points water to water I guess. Fish Handling - I think is one of the highest impacts and moderately solvable. Make it a prerequisite to a license to have to 80% pass an East Slopes Trout Ecology & Handling Course and you've just bridged a lot of fish to live longer. Please don't take my replies as absolute either - it's just bloody refreshing that we're talking about this stuff and - unlike when I lobbied to get the Ram C&R or start Streamwatch - it's not just me and one or two people trying to create awareness and round up support! That is the win in all this - just look at the replies here & in our social feeds, it's absolutely refreshing to see the societal interest and involvement levels. Re: the Elk... we're not too far from having no choice on some of our waters...
@@jensenflyfishing - appreciate the reply, I'm down in Colorado (but family from Alberta) where we see rivers facing similar issues and (in my mind) a similar minded governance/population who demands access and limited governance.
Regarding the desire for a "East Slopes Trout Ecology & Handling Course" - the cynic in me thinks that would be more effective in limiting people (who won't take the time to show up for a class) rather than have a large impact on handling. Seems like a good way to limit anglers and improve fish handling....though I think governance of it (having to show a card/stamp on your license) may be challenging.
I'd love if more rivers had mandatory "hike ins", all the best rivers in Colorado now require that but sadly there are two few of them. It's amazing how hiking in changes your mindset to immediately appreciate/love the surroundings compared to rolling out of a car/ATV and the casualness/naivety that accompanies that type of access.
Do you hike in from ram fall lookout? Interested in taking my boys (8 & 9yo) to this spot
There's certainly some points to access it all and getting around is really water condition dependent :)
Come on Alberta get your act together, we only get one chance at this. 25 inch cutthroats should be experienced by everybody that understands the beauty of them. Great video guys, that looks like a super special place and I hope the right path can be taken whilst at the crossroads again.
Hope so! Part of the trouble is going to be the old guard's "it's not my idea" and "it won't work" instead of seeing the issue and trying... so we'll see if action dies before anyone gains steam and traction. Egos & dismissiveness often kill momentum and good ideas. Hope for the best!
This is not what I grew up with as well Rick. The South Ram below the falls were in our day (in the 80's).... unreachable, or took some hard core fly fishermen to do the adventure. Same is happening on the North Ram. I haven't fish for a while but an early spring adventure this year to Cripple, Onion and Phillip creek tributaries showed just a few fingerlings. This river system has always been a fight. I did one of the first studies with a University Of Alberta biologist, every thing you have said was known at that time, and the fear of what would happen to this pristine fishery on the Eastern Slope if it was not catch and release with barbless hooks. We fought off oil and gas, mining and logging. Hopefully all will change for the future.. let's keep up the fight.
Ah, yeah. It's exceptionally unfortunate. Every time it comes up I struggle to know what to say. Obviously when I share I do so knowing so many feel the same and have done their part. My voice is mine, yours of you and hopefully we can convince those in charge to look at the politicians - we can chant cumulative impacts all we want but the truth is that there has been one constant cause and culprit: politicians that continue to sell our rivers and environment and over-allocate and our current ones perpetuating the cycles while refusing to rollback what is needed in order to keep what we have.
@@jensenflyfishing You do and speak for all of us that are now silent, may thanks to you and Amelia for the work, education and relentless passion. Breaks my heart to hear about spin rods on such an endangered rivershed.. but its big business for retailers and tourism alike. The North Ram River is the story of a fishery that never was. A preliminary Biological Survey of the river in 1952 turned up only Longnose Dace (Miller/Paetz). The biologist at the time recommended the introduction of Cutthroat Trout and Rocky Mountain Whitefish for this cold water fishery, Westslope Cutthroat Trout from Southeastern B.C. were first stocked in the river in 1955, might of been some Lohonton cutts in the mix as well.. This was followed up by repeat stockings in 1961 and 1970.
After the river was first stocked, fishing was allowed on odd numbered years. However, angling pressure was intensive during open years, contributing to stock depletion. My fist experience was in 1978. And partly introduced it to the likes of Gary LaFontaine, Jack Dennis and Mike Lawson at the FFF Conclave in Calgary in the 80's, proud of our Alberta treasure. As it would be, to save the stock, recommend catch and release regulations were placed on the river and its tributaries in 1982, at a time when there were many guys in green looking for barb hooks on the beaten path to inforce such regulations. The Cutthroat Trout have been thriving under these regulations, with catch rates as high as 4 to 6 fish per hour in some years. The opportunity to catch a 50 cm Cutthroat Trout was real at the time on this river now bigger with a smaller population. There were times of pools of 50 to 100, 8" to 12" fish, just waiting for that elusive BWO hatch after a hot days thunderstorm, a sight to behold. They were harder to get to espically under the falls, beacuse of the rough terrain, protected to live and grow. They survived gravel pits, chemical mining, redd erosion and a multitude of logging trucks along the river banks. A 25 year fish is a true miracle. Regulations will have to be stricter and tributaries will have to be prestine for the species survival, not to mention handling when caught. Thanks for the inspirational awareness and doing what you do so well... Thank You.
I climbed down there last summer lol. What a hike out if your in the wrong spot. I shoulda walked down a lot farther lol
worth the effort but YES, pick your spots. It's actually not too tough if you follow the long ridges or look for loose scree. But a lot of walking :)
Thanks for this¡¡ I firmly believe in catch and release, and I am sure the emotion you transmit will convince some fishermen to the cause.
Hope so!
We need more protection for all of east slopes water. It's a world class fishery that is very fragile, whether you are an angler, hiker, or outdoor enthusiast more of us need to step up and be heard.
100%. An East Slopes Trout Ecology & Handling course needs be a prerequisite to a license. Don't want to do it, don't get a license. Sorry. :)
@@jensenflyfishing That would be fantastic, too many people have no appreciation of the value of this resource!!
It seems these days everyone claims to love the outdoors, but yet shows very little love for the outdoors.
There is that but then there is the question of the perspective of whose version of caring is the standard. Is it to seal it off and keep people from using it or opening it to everyone and watching it fall apart? To close it and seal it off or develop it into a park and campgrounds everywhere and change it forever... some tough decisions ahead, which are well behind the political decisions long ago made to allow forestry, o&g, grazing and more.
The entire subject of RUclips and other media fishing channels has been controversial to say the least. Many like myself view it positively, seeing it as beneficial for education, instruction, and conservation awareness. Many others see it negatively, just more reasons for "the masses" to come in and ruin special places and the river in general.
Do you guys see the media fishing channel revolution as a good thing for conservation awareness?
So true. People care more about how it looks on media vs caring for nature. Not everyone but a good amount 😥
Hmmm, social media channels, fly fishing forums, magazines, guide books, government pamphlets, travel guides and booking agents, fly shops, fly fishing expos, tv, fly fishing film festivals and more... takes us back to about 1920. When did it start, when does it stop? For us it has been so much more for sharing & educating but of course we can't ignore the people that want to try to hot spot our videos. The plain reality is that everywhere has good fish if you look for them, hunt them and know what you are doing. Chasing another angler's magic is so futile, wrought with frustration and just boorish. But it happens. I think where it comes to education on many levels this medium is fantastic. Without digital the Ram never goes Catch & Release, Streamwatch here in Alberta never happened. Digital has had so many profound positives. We just need to convince government to release the full potential and force people to do things like take a trout ecology & handling course before allocating angling licenses. Imagine that world.
I have long thought of writing a feature fly fishing article.
It would be titled "EGO"
The article would be 3 words long. Everyone's Got One.
@@jensenflyfishing , this is a topic that some media channel anglers would rather shy away from discussing, and I know some personally. So that being said, I truly appreciate the response. Saving a river, or even just preserving it is such a monumental task, and most of us take for granted the work that goes on behind the scenes.
For the longest time, I saw such a huge disconnect between the gear world and the fly-fishing world in terms of conservation awareness. It's sad, we get the label of "elitist", but those that mock are often clueless they are actively destroying their own playgrounds. But going back to media again, I believe there is a growing trend of responsibility. Even in the gear world, I see more and more anglers that strive to be fish advocates first and content creators second. Well-informed enthusiasm and passion for nature can be quite contagious. Maybe there's some hope.
Anyways, I think it goes without saying that you two have done a wonderful job at contributing to the world of fly-fishing, in all the arenas. I think it is safe to say, the community thanks you.
Also, I fully support the publication of your next article!
@@realityobservationalist7290 thanks for all that. And remember I am 100% imperfect at that. There was one reply in this thread that I went off a little heavy on and feel badly about, and that's my imperfection and anxiety on this. But that also ties in to something very important to keep in mind on these channels - raising issues, taking stands, sharing passion... leads to what you see here and our FB/IG pages.... HEAPS and REAMS of replies and considerations and literally days of effort in replying to everyone, encouraging them, addressing objections from people that you thought would be on your side, etc. It's wrought with emotion and passion and channels that don't have the involvement, history, reputation, effort and involvement in process simply would get cratered in with critique and judgement. So I/we do think they need be cut some slack too, especially in this age of cancel culture. We took a huge risk in even sharing this. It's a huge amount of effort to address each comment and honor each person with a thoughtful reply, and we feel honor bound to do so because it is such a valuable topic to everyone. Heck, we could continue this conversation as a side stream a long ways too! All the best. Dave
Is it bad to hit the same pool to many times during a day? Will it put too much stress on the fish?
Given how much pressure is in these streams and how little time between anglers hitting pools on weekends, they're being hit anyway. If you move to another pool and the next group or angler replaces you and you them, do the fish ever get reprieve in a game of leap frog? If even one of 10 anglers or groups is killing a high % of fish and the others none, that could still easily outpace that stream's capacity to grow trout. We need an East Slopes Trout Ecology & Handling course as prerequisite to a license:)
@@jensenflyfishing this is exactly why I always try to take proper care of my fish. Wet hands, keep the fish in the water facing up stream, and hooks with no barbs to reduce time handiling the fish
@@sanjaychalupiakoutdoors9061 it is wonderful you are conscientious about it and that's all we can hope for. We all continue to improve in what we do and how we conduct ourselves. We're no different. So if it is in you to see the need for good fish handling and want to continue to improve, that is wonderful. Thank you! :)
Love it ! Agree 100%
it may take a while but here's hoping!
I love your passion about this river and it’s watershed. We’re fighting a similar, but different fight on the Deschutes in Oregon. Different in the details, but similar in that, to paraphrase Dave Hughes, in that it’s the anglers and and residents who love the river enough to fight for it.
100%. It's hard to watch right now but we literally moved from Central Alberta to southern Alberta to ensure we didn't remain enmeshed in fisheries politics, so we could get back to enjoying fly fishing fully again. We're never going to be mentally free because I can't step into a river without seeing its issues, but at least we are free to explore and share and less mentally oppressed these days :)
Maybe something similar to the Alberta Hunters Education program. Before you can harvest most animals in Alberta, you must take your Alberta Conservation and Hunter Education Program. Something along the same lines, but for anglers could be beneficial. But that would only go so far.
and incredibly easy to implement online via video courses on the subject. And take it further to get people to understand ecosystems, growth rates, why C&R, carrying capacity. Unless someone sees this and carries it forward tho it's all digital ink.
It has come to the point where eastern slopes streams fishing regulations have to be even more restrictive., "Single barbless dry fly only" has to come to be be. I'm an avid fly fisherman and have been thought by those who took me under their wing that there is no other way acceptable way to fish for cutthroat other than dry flies. Nymphing, gear/spin fishing etc creates unnecessary pressure and excessive damage on a delicate fishery. I was at first resistant to agreeing with my friends on dry fly only regulations as I saw it as elitist but now, especially after watching your video, I'm in total agreement with them.
when I first saw a fellow out of Rocky Mountain House posting photos of fish he was catching below Ram Falls with big streamers I really wanted to say something. Before that era literally zero fish had hooking scars. Recall I caught those fish 10 to 45+ times each literally with barbed hooks. If you know how to handle fish and fish with care to the fish and not just to catch something the barbed/less debate is moot. But boy what % of anglers fish that way? Since the time I first saw images of him fishing streamers and in the evolution since every fish over 10" is beaten to hell. They literally stand zero chance right now to get to 3 years without mouth deformation. Ditto the east slopes in general. So while I will sit here and tell you the barbed/less debate is moot if you know how to handle fish, we have zero option but to dumb it right down. And it really will eventually come down to single, floating, barbless lure only at some point. That sun is rising rapidly. I don't think we have to limit #s yet but by God we have a long way to go in educating people about the basics of biology, ecology, carrying capacity, slow growth, old aged... and the social media anglers' eyes glaze over....
I’d like to get involved but I don’t know where to start. Any suggestions?
Knock on the doors of the Bow River Trout Foundation and spread the word about the need for an East Slopes Trout Ecology & Handling Course as prerequisite to getting a license to fish the east slopes. :)
This is a delicate issue.
Here in Europe good waters with trout are all privatised. You have to pay to fish (often limited numbers per day) or even off limits for everyone except the owner and his buddies. Do you want that to happen here too?
Do you want to keep the rivers open for anyone with good intentions or keep it only for fly anglers? This last option sounds too 'elitist-ical'. Education is the key.
I've never been to the Ram river but I've heard about it from a friend who fished it long ago. The view is spectacular. I hope Alberta makes a wise choice.
Keep it only for for fly fishers or keep it only for those advocating for the protection of the fishery?
No matter the gear, the objective here is that it is public water but public water in which we have an onus to protect and minimize our actions. Spin fishing is shown to have a 15 to 25% mortality rate depending on your study. If you have a low population of fish and high mortality, does that make sustainability possible in wild trout management? No. The reality is that a Trout Ecology and Handling Course needs be a prerequisite to being granted a license. That, truly, would be a massive step forward. We'll see what happens and where this goes.
a trout ecology and handling course prior to a license being granted solves step #1. Gear restrictions are needed.
I'm with you guys on this. I think a single barbless hook makes a big difference on releasing a fish to keep it alive and healthy. We have that regulation of some of our wild trout steams here in California. Fortunately, most fishermen I see on these rivers do their best to follow the regulations. When my son and I have gotten the opportunity, we have been able to fish on a privately owned section of one of these creeks. On the privately section it's dry fly, single hook, catch and release only all year. Guess what? On the private section which runs for about 2 miles, the fish that we have caught have been bigger and healthier that those we have caught on the public section.
Access control and regulations work! Here in Alberta we have a free for all access, access everywhere and ATV use to every part in between. We can make changes. Thanks!
In British Columbia single barbless hooks are the law for all rivers , And ocean for Salmon ,
@@squamishfish it is. 😊
Great effort on the catch and release and fight
Thank you. It was a lot of 'try'. Worth it if only to be able to share this video and pass it along to the (hopefully) next... :)
This one speaks. ❤️
Really good to hear.😊
What to do with a foul hooked fish on a catch and release river i get lot of foul hooking while nymphing especially small ones i read an article they don’t survive even if practiced proper catch and release technique especially hook in belly and gill area even muscle hooked ones can easily catch infections and die later
perhaps consider single nymph rigs, or using shorter droppers. Perhaps even consider an attempt with a dry fly. Double or triple nymph rigs or long dropper rigs have higher chance of foul hooking a fish.
As stated below really look at your set up and what is fouling fish. Droppers do it a lot but tandem rigs are brutal unless you really space them. But definitely let it go - even dead it will feed the ecosystem. Truth is that in cold water trout can heal - lots of odd scarring on trout that heals and the same fish miraculously pulls through and lives many years. Bottom line is that we don't know and all we can do is examine our actions, adjust and then do our best upon release. Cheers
I think we should look into making fly fishing only rivers in Alberta that see this pressure. Especially with the de wilding and with that crown land camping page that has just made the crown land more of a zoo that it was before and got more people who don’t care or don’t know the regulations out on these rivers.
Piggy that with an East Slopes Trout Ecology & Handling course as prerequisite to a license and you've got it! :) Even if if didn't go pure ff... single hook... whatever the first radical step is then let's get on it.
I am a fly fisherman and I find this comment ridiculous. Interesting how some fly fishers believe that the worth of a person is based on what type of fishing rod that they use. I have come across many fly fishers in my travels of the Grande Cache, Hinton, and west central Alberta areas that also have no understanding of regulations, proper fish handling, etc.
I will say though, I support single hook, mandatory training/classes, separate license for east slopes trout streams.
@@kylehandziuk5794 hence why something along the lines of a trout Ecology and handling course should be mandatory as prerequisite to a license to fish the ES. Past that start practicing biology on a watershed to watershed basis that includes community biology input- without anglers eyes and passion it's simply a push of process. And of course that will tie in industry and political processes. But let's start by ensuring the majority of fish return home safely 🍻😊
BC has many flyfishing only rivers and/or sections of rivers and also have water class system for very popular systems to try and limit over fishing, we need to do the same here! But without enforcement it's useless.
Hence why we tried to get Streamwatch to stick. But, alas, the enforcement department killed it. And even if we don't get ff only, then a prerequisite to a license being an East Slopes Trout Ecology & Handling Course should be mandatory. We have to change something
Great video! Fish knowledge and handling it's a thing that everybody must learn, but lots of people don't have the opportunity to learn (people around who can teach, associations that can sensitize young and new fishers). I don't have an answer for that and I don't know how the fishing licenses work in Alberta. In Switzerland we have certificate of capacity for fishing (it's called SaNa). This system is not perfect, but forces people to study and have a minimal knowledge of the fishes and the biology of the streams lakes... At the same time new fishers can speak with associations, experimented fishers and with the wildlife fisheries. Every fisher has to spent 2 days (with a final exam) with certified instructors: the first day is theoretical and the second one is practical (fishing, handling, observation of the biology, insects...).
Our streams in Switzerland are not in great shape because of the dams, climate change, pollution in the 70'-80', and the density of population that you don't have in Alberta, but the education of the fishers is good and rarely see people handling bad a fish.
thank you for sharing your thoughts and reflexions, cheers from Switzerland
This is 100% the baseline of what we are desperate for here. A Trout Ecology & Handling course. The tools are there to do it - online video modules etc. It's not difficult but our gov refuses to do something so simple as a Trout ID test to issue licenses (and our bull trout were desperate for just that since 1985). It may well come down to something like that in our lifetimes. It's needed right now, but you know glaciers move faster than gov policy. Actually, that's not fair to glaciers these days, they're moving quite quickly thanks to the Alberta oil patch ;)
Maybe it's time for a CW style licensing program in AB...
I grew up fishing many of the same rivers you list in this vid - and previous vids - and the pressure, mismanagement and clear lack of enforcement is the worst it's ever been. Also makes me sad for future generations as there is a very real possibility that some of these rivers will be changed forever if we don't open our eyes to what's really going on and change our ways.
Is there any organizations or groups you would recommend people follow, join etc that are actually attempting to make change? Interested to hear your thoughts.
100% to all that you shared. All options need be on the table re access, handling, gear type, mandatory education like a trout ecology and handling course prerequisite to an east slopes license, maybe CW on some waters, no commercial use of our most fragile (that means no guiding and no helicopters) amongst other options. It's time to push through our Fisheries Dept doors and force communications and inclusions- those are the cornerstones of biology but they are not being practised in Alberta. Definitely worth getting in with the Bow River Trout Foundation or maybe Trout Unlimited as both have an established seat in the Fisheries Management table process. Thank you for taking the time to reply & consider. It is important ♥️🍻
The unfortunate thing is that people just want to fish with "no strings attached" or the just want to be able to do everything from their computers. Signing documents and showing an online presence is one thing, however, as you said, no one wants to take on a leadership role to protect these fisheries.
100%. People have always wanted zero responsibility, care nor thought to the fish nor future fishing. It has been that way since man bore a rod. As you saw in the video the whole thing has a ton of weight/emotion to it for me and - with all you read with what I've done - I can't do it any more. I'm tapped. But I can try to raise it and hope someone sees it as well and carries it. Fisheries is a great thing to get involved with for A REASON or SEASON but never a lifetime.
We have the same issues in BC. Unfortunately there’s just simply not enough enforcement if any at all. People simply do not pay fishing enough respect, they do not read the regs grab a rod out of the basement and kill every one they catch. People simply do not need to use treble hooks period. People simply do not need to keep fish out of river and creeks like this or in my opinion from any river or stream.
100% Sorry I don't have a snappy reply... you expressed it spot on.
Well Dave, I'll speak up and say I am willing to get involved. I'm sure there are others like me who need some marching orders. I know you've run out of steam to spearhead it, but it sure would be helpful to get a head start and not have to relearn everything you have over your decades of service.
I have practical skills and connections in software and web development that I am willing to put to use.
Is there some way that we can collaborate together to help nudge observers into action?
I'd look at the Bow River Trout Foundation - get in touch with David Blair at Fish Tales He won't 100% agree with how I've shared this video but most of the substance. I'm definitely here to have my brain picked as an asset re process and ideas but can't commit to procedural stuff. This really needs an existing group to push- and it is going to require a group that has grass roots, isn't afraid to voice a need to close some atv access and use, and is willing to get hands on. TU is also good but they need an arm that allows them to dig in again. Anyway, hope that helps?
Yep thanks Dave, I can make some contacts through that information. I'll reach out to you if necessary.
I know it might make some people mad, and obviously there are some thumbs down, but that should be fly only, catch and release. Even here in NJ I wish some were fly, catch and release only. There are enough other spots for people to spin fish, even here in NJ in waters that get warm and it's stockers only anyway. Besides, I feel there is more of a connection with nature, the fish etc when using fly. But 100% fish handling is key. It really is sad.
Keep up the good fight!
Even floating lure only. If the mgt objective is to reduce hooking mortality and catch rates that would do it. But like everywhere... political will...
It’s worth noting that it is a ticketable offence in this province to mishandle fish. Wish more people would report those who mishandle.
Do you know what it takes to get a CO to issue that ticket in this province? If you don't have it all on video and connect the dots at every stage and have proper methodology of collecting evidence as a citizen, there is zero chance that a CO will take that charge on hearsay evidence given the incredibly low probability of conviction. It's great in theory but almost a zero chance of anything other than a CO being put into conflict or the person reporting the incident feeling they're the ones being prosecuted for how much time, effort and questioning coming their way. The above is why so few call it in and why a fraction of those lead to conviction. If the system changes, great, otherwise it's very understandable. 🍻
I was there a lot of years ago just for instance I am sixty two
The mind's eye quickly takes us back to such places, doesn't it? :)
@@jensenflyfishing Yes just thinking back on those memorable days in my youth and into my thirties brings a tear in my eyes because I just love fishing the passion never goes away I'm pretty much stuck to stocked pond fishing now but hey the tug is the drug
@@jensenflyfishing I remember when I was a young lad no drivers license yet but the brother inlaw took me fishing to the south ram we would stop off at the shunda and by a few flies off a old retired guy Ed if my memory serves me right but anyways ya I couldn't afford a flyrod then so I used my spinning rod a small twig as my float because I thought that looked more natural on the water yes the good old memories
@@michaelmoore2872 the good news is that this winter we'll share a few happy, just joy of fishing videos and hopefully those connect you. 😊 We know that everyone that tunes in here does so for so many different reasons. Sometimes just being a conduit to memories or putting folks on the water is the best reason to share. 😊♥️
@@jensenflyfishing Will be looking forward to more of your exceptionable good videos keep up the great work
20” + cutthroat sounds like a great thing to me!
they were... and could still be with a solid push... :)
Hadir sodara q 👏👏 mantap ❤️🤝👍👍
:)
I wish I could walk that river agane
It's a stunner, isn't it? Wonderful to live in the mind's eye as well. :)
It seems like it's just a symptom of the general disrespect for nature. Too many people look at it as something they can do whatever they want with. It is clearly crushing for you to see this happen to somewhere you love.
Rule #1 of the humanity herd: we want what we want, when we want it, how we want it... so give it to me NOW! Fishing is just fishing and really, they are just fish... society's view of things really. What chance does any population have once gov allows access and refuses to change regulations and gear types to meet the pressure?
It's a terrible country where the population has to constantly lobby, cajole, and force the government to do its job. What the heck do they do all day? Why aren't they out patroling the areas and then coming back to the office with an action list? Even if they just watched this video (and others) it might help. This is why we need LESS government, but with actual accountability and responsibility. Fire them all and start over again from scratch.
If we had the political will to do so... but we Albertans continue to vote the same government and passively support the systems in place. :(
If the Ucp government mines and logs the crap out of it and destroys the down stream the farmers and towns will bitch but they will still vote for the UCP...because that's what they do. There is no downside for the UCP
All incredibly accurate. And yet, here we are. And will likely forever be (in our lifetimes).
Spinner fishing is very similar too fly fishing just got too go single hook in a zero catch limit areas and that’s a lot more fish missing hooks and eating more bugs. Flyfishing shouldn’t be demand too fish on a river bed. Not every area is flyfishable by flys
We'll see what the powers that be come up with. Fish handling is the huge issue, but we can't dismiss the impacts of huge lures and how hard these fish hit them - and that includes big streamers and spin gear. It may come to a floating lure only situation before too long to preclude us from reaching every fish in the river and protect our dwindling numbers.
We’ll done!
thanks - hope it connects with someone along the way.
For rivers like this and any other rivers with low populations of slow growing trout I 100% agree with catch and release. Even on rivers with good wild rainbow populations I release most of my fish. But I will say that in the US it's growing trend to frown upon and even criminalize keeping trout all together and that too is wrong. In healthy rivers with lots of non native browns and rainbows and brookies, there's nothing wrong with keeping a couple here and there trout are delicious and everyone should have the opportunity to eat a wild trout so long as the river can support it. Just don't keep a full limit. Planters are chickens with fins designed specifically for catching an easy limit.
Kind of why this is fairly specific to Alberta's East Slopes & the Ram R as a springboard. We have wild, nat repro only in our flowing waters so the stockies debate is moot. But elsewhere, where there are stockies, that's a whole other discussion that ties into which rivers, how much harvest, to take away pressure from what other waters, how & where to use that as a management tool, etc. :)
@@jensenflyfishing I know, in you're situation I completely understand,wild native stocks definitely need protection. I just wanted to point out that people nowadays often wanna be fish nazis about keeping fish at all even abundant and non native trout. The biggest issue facing trout here is low flows, (fisherman vs. farmer arguments) caused by severe droughts and overuse of the rivers, and in special unique trout streams(paiute cutthroat and golden trout in california are being breed out and competed against by rainbows,browns and brookies for example.) Not knocking your passion and concern for the river I have mine too. Just wanted to call out the fish nazis who over exaggerate and not fully educated on species distribution. Very sad what's going on in Montana right now with all their wild stocks dying off due to low warm flows
@@bssaassin1900 I bet we could both passionately talk for hours and once we set the platforms and variables and influences for our waters we'd not only agree but likely add perspectives and variables and commiserate. Add New Zealand and Patagonia to your list too... the S Island NZ is an agricultural disaster in many regions. I'd say "all the best" but, well, you know... :)
@@jensenflyfishing I hear ya. I'm from northern California fishing for rainbows and browns in the mountains, salmon, american shad and stripers in the valley. And it was a blast but sadly the drought and increased pressure for water is destroying our salmon stalks. I fear that all we're going to be left with is bullshit species like bass,bluegills and catfish. I moved to texas a year ago and I f*cking hate it here. Even the bass fishing here sucks!
@@bssaassin1900 the world is changing so bloody fast. It's a fascinating study of the human brain to keep up with that rate of change, coping and managing our adaptation to government control and mgt and our environment. They say the earth can produce food for 15 to 20B people... but what kind of planet is that going to be?
Fly fishermen with 10 mins hero shot photo session probably contribute majority of damage.
100% Hence the concept that a Trout Ecology/ Fish Handling course as prerequisite to license issue should be front & center of this. All the best
since the start of covid anyone with $28 in their pocket bought a fishing license and a spinning rod and a dozen treble hooked
barbed panther martins fish killers. Then they hook a fish and have it out of the water taking 2-3 minutes worth of selfies. Then they through it back in the water thinking what heroes they are. They leave their garbage everywhere, and just are so out of their element in the back country they should never have left the city.
And what is the answer when the Gov AB's first guiding principle is equal access and use by all Albertans? Ugh. A trout ecology and handling course is about the only thing stopping short of closures...
Your vid made me sad and angry at the same time. I'm sad because I love to flyfish; I dont own any spin gear anymore. In the early 2000's I spent time on the Burnt Timber, the North & South Ram and even the Panther and wouldnt see very many anglers on them. Today, even the Burnt Timber is packed with people chucking metal with no care or understanding of how to handle fish or even what they are catching. And Im angry because our government caters to the lowest common denominator in this province and would never have the balls to declare a beautiful river like the Ram a fly only river even though thats what it would take to protect this river from the inevitable collapse due to fishing pressure.
The light switch truly got turned on to the outdoors the past 2 years and it doesn't look like it's going to be turned off any time soon, save for a massive license fee hike to preclude #s. And that won't go to any new systems of improving or education, it'll just be to replace budgets with our gov. You are spot on with the 'catering to the lowest common denominator' - it's simply what they feel has to happen in order to allow access to all Albertans rather than show leadership as to what needs to happen to ensure viability of what we had. And I am starting to use the right tense in words... our policy managers are simply not smart enough on the community involvement and inclusion side of their profession to find a way to make this work. They're collectively clearly intelligent human beings in what they do within the isolated parameters of fish growths and habitat impacts, etc, but fall so pathetically short on dealing with the public, speaking common language, putting into motion needed common, simple things... in order that angling impacts allow our fish to grow to what could be. It has long been this way and so long as we don't demand an overhaul to the system we have now, this is what we'll continue to get.
Great video. I think there are many cultural complexities to this issue. There are differing views on the purpose of going fishing. I think some of these views automatically render those who hold them concerned about the fish and ecology. Other views on the purpose of fishing simply do not lead to this aforementioned mentality. How do you get people to care about the tragedy of the commons? Can you? Or are the answers mostly on the institutional side and cultural fixes are very at the margin?
There are really 3 cultures at play. People that didn't grow up fishing and understanding these waters. People that grew up elsewhere and just see fishing as fishing and any old Rapalla will do - and land/handle the fish like a warm water fish. And people that grew up immersed in trout / cold water species culture and get what it takes to grow such fish and keep them in the system. If we had a trout ecology/handling course requirement pre-license issuance you at least get a chance to filter people. And if you're worried about losing license fees there will be plenty of opportunity to make that up in CO tickets for fishing without a license.
@@jensenflyfishing That seems like a really good idea.
@@jensenflyfishing Somewhat related question -- Is there a best kind of net for fish safety?
@@RGatGala rubberized mesh or a rubber mesh are usually best. 🍻
Sad to see, sorry to see the destruction of a place important to you.
Sadly it's all along Alberta's east slopes... and rampant on NZ's waters... and and and... we need to do something to extoll the true value & sensitivity of our trout populations and their habitat.
At least single hook only would be nice to see
Bare minimum. We need an East Slopes Trout Ecology & Handling Coursr as prerequisite to getting a license to fish the ES.
Terrible seeing dead fish.
always. But it's real. And so avoidable in most cases.
Was waiting for fishing
Us too. If more people gave a damn then maybe this message wouldn't need to be center stage again.
@@jensenflyfishing it's all good and you right I'm just saying I was expecting fishing;)
@@jensenflyfishing so you didn't fish that day?
Oh we fished. But the message as shared here was far too important so we made a video of the needed message. We''ll share the fishing sometime this winter
@@jensenflyfishing I am running my channel too )) like fishing and this river in my list 🥰 Hope you was enjoying your fishing there 😀
Maybe a special permit or lottery system to control access and volume of anglers?
Single barbless, dry fly only solves the pressure problem!
If you did that combined with an East Slopes Trout Ecology & Handling Course as prerequisite to a license to fish the ES then we'd buy ourselves a few psi off the pressure on these fish certainly
To be honest, the Alberta Native Trout Recovery Program in ~2017 would have been vastly more effective protecting our native species... The best way to allow a river to recover is to have 0 fishing pressure, but even C&R fishermen that care about the rivers won't take the pledge to allow a river to recover. There was leadership to create this recovery program, but high profile fishermen put down this program. Oh well.
P.S. I'm aware that the Ram wouldn't be covered under that legislation, but if the ability to take off angling pressure for a few years implicated stream health, I'm sure some other rivers would be recruited into the program and allow to "heal".
100% false. Sorry. The NCNT program completely gave up. The 5 year closure as proposed for the Ram, Berland, Kakwa, and one or two others was our biologists admitting they have zero clout and influence and opted to not communicate and include anglers - it was out Fishries Dept admitting they have zero clue about the most important part of biology: community & communication. The department still refuses to go on any kind of inclusion & communication campaign. The issue has always been that our biologists refuse to have backbone publicly to talk to people about the ramifications of the political decisions being made and he impacts of industry - and you can't say that without saying that politicians have long failed our env and biologists by creating a Fisheries mgt system that snuffs out our bios. BUT, as we saw with the coal mines this past year the bios and Fisheries policy team were deadly silent. Ask yourself how much trust you have in a dept that is willing to close rivers to angling but not scream at the prospect of coal mines? And... you might have noticed how that Pembina 5yr closue is going to turn into a permanent one. They have zero answers and refuse to communicate, to include. Our bios, politicians and industry in this province need to get back to the table, roll back access, continue the great beginnings of stream crossing repairs, set up better buffers, improve fishing regulations that make virtually everything 'trouty' C&R as well as ensuring anglers are educated in trout Ecology and handling while eliminating treble hooks, while further eliminating the use of ATVs as tools to access distant waters. That's why the NCNT program was an abject failure - these kinds of actions to a plan were simply thrown out, hopeless.
As a PS to this ask yourself how much you trust the FSI maps when the new wave of biology includes incredibly little field work and pigeon holes timing of field work? Their work on the Ram R bulls was last done at peak heat & drought instead of pushing it to wait for migrating conditions, with field work done by people that simply should not have been doing certain functions. When your sampling methods wreak of lack of control and consistent variables you leave yourself wide open to criticism. Further, when I chased Emergency Stream Closures for a decade we had a ton of great ideas to include anglers and community, to set different parameters and to help the public understand the process and be vigilant & involved. Instead the head policy bio stifled it all and simply stated "I've decided I'm going to do this" and didn't bother to engage at all. It was brutal. The closed doors of our Fisheries Mgt system need kicking open.
@@jensenflyfishing Okay, I previously replied but deleted it as I was quite frustrated at the situation. I'm aware that I will never change your mind, but I'm sorry...1st, as someone trained in forestry, I am disappointed to hear you stating that what I said is 100% wrong. I would assert that this level of hubris is concerning coming from a forestry scientist.
Furthermore, the 5-7 year closure had much merit behind it, as the Joe Modelling System which determines FSI is a WORKING hypothesis for management - there is so much nuance behind the system that evades many people. It is a system that relies on anecdotal experience (like you present), academic findings, and indigenous historical knowledge. Wouldn't it be interesting to see how a fishery would evolve after an experiment like the NCNT? Wouldn't the control (elimination) of angling pressure present a stronger case against industry damage?
Yes, politics has a huge influence on how allocations of fisheries money can be spent, however do you truly believe that many organizations (TUC, AEP, AER, and DFO) would all seem to support the development of this novel means of management to approach such a sensitive provincial fishery? Of course there are individual exceptions, and I'm sure there is some "snuffing" that occurs.... but do you really truly believe it is all industry motivated? I genuinely believe the fisheries bios are always pushing for what's best to the level they can. But angler voice is something that has to always be taken into consideration, hence why many things aren't passed. Asked yourself this, if the NCNT recovery program was instated, wouldn't there be at least some benefit to having zero angler pressure as I stated in the previous paragraph? Of course it would, how couldn't it?! Every time I pose this to an angler, they always "bait and switch" the argument and point fingers at industry, as you did as well. I don't deny that industry has huge impacts and our provincial government does push for development over sustainability, but the doesn't nullify the argument that C&R pressure has negative implications as well! Anyone that disagrees with that needs to re-evaluate their opinion. I suggest reading the paper: Can smartphones kill Trout? Mortality of memorable-sized Bull Trout (Salvelinus confluentus) after photo-releases by Joubert et al. 2020. awaredoesn't
To address your post script, I'm aware that some of the sampling of the Ram River bulls may be considered inappropriate but there are so many confounding variables to getting great population estimates. What would your main sampling means be for evaluating confluentus populations? Wouldn't you think that they try their best to get the best data possible? As someone formerly in forestry I would assume that you came across the great problems in population estimates, and that's with in situ organisms!
noteworthy thingGindianDupes" progress on not gilling mature brown trout. First of all, yes proper universal handling practices should be applied to C&R, but also the veneration of non-native species seems concerning.
Anyway, I respectfully stand by my words and appreciate the art you provide. I also have no affiliation with any of the organizations I stated. I am simply stating what I know as a practicing aquatics biologist. Cheers.
@@zachvydra9309 Hi and thank you for continuing the conversation. However, it's a little contrite and insulting to suggest I've baited and switched. So now that you've divested your pov, let's get into it.
First, it's important that you and anyone else reading understands that the North Central Native Trout Initiative model and plan to close many trout waters for 5 years was sent for independent review. The NCNT initiative was publicized by the Alberta Government but the review result was shared only with Fisheries RoundTable process. The review process determined that the "science" behind the model was "junk science" and our Fisheries Mgt promised to do better. Nowhere did the GOA come out in public and state that they had severely messed up - hence why the public remains under the assumption that it was a good plan.
Secondly, the NCNT had been called out by the group of retired biologists and ADMs for not only being junk science but also because it literally threw in the towel and offered no hope, no progress, no moving forward opportunity in community nor communication.
Third, because your deleted post questioned my qualifications and history of involvement... speaking of the group of retired bios, they and another group approached me to represent their groups in the Fisheries Mgt process formerly known as the Round Table. Not because I'm smarter, goodness no, but because they didn't want to be continually drawn into process that they spent their careers in. That and they know there needs to be good communication & inclusion in this province and there are few that have our reach, influence, longevity & reputation in these regards.
From there we have to ask: did you happen to notice the complete lack of communication and inclusion from the GOA biologists and HQ policy since the ncnt? Almost none publicly. Any actions to affect meaningful change aside a few very small test projects? There are a couple of pet projects in extremely minor locations. Did you hear any voicing from hq policy staff or bios against the coal mines even though they were so pressing to preclude angling from these waters? Did you notice the temporary 5 yr closure in the Pembina is now being indefinitely continued, likely for 10 to 20yrs as would have been the case for the ncnt closure proposals? Did you notice that our bios gave up even trying to work with industry and anglers to seek ways to work to find solutions like an East Slopes trout Ecology and handling course as prerequisite to getting a license? Did you notice our bios gave up trying to co-ordinate communications of needed habitat band aids and fishy issues? So many things could be done but they threw in the towel and abandoned ship instead.
Hindsight says that if they'd done the above we'd have more involved and invested eyes and voices to support rapid changes as needed to manage for covid impacts. Instead they the bed and their credibility. The closed doors of Fisheries mgt and policy as they so remain aren't going to get us anywhere.
They absolutely side stepped the most important part of the science of biology: community, communication & inclusion. I don't know who you are nor experience and qualifications but science cannot look past the populace and just "do science". The only reason science exists in fisheries is because of human impact and use of fisheries. And that leads to the most important discussion of all:
You cannot simply close waters to fishing. Jessica's model essentially led to the conclusion that we either have angling or industry, not both. If you want to bring back native trout species to what they were you simply have to remove all human activity. Ergo, Forestry that builds rods and dumps sedimentation into rivers (and the early days of the FMA in the Ram were absolutely atrocious as documented by Friends of the West Country), opening the forest canopy leading to super-heating of formerly cold water environs (which led to mid to late 90s Fisheries staff needing to plan in advance for a changing and warming headwaters and managing new species - a complete difference from this model). Oil & gas does the same and usually leads the way into former wilderness. Cattle trampling of 3, 4, 5, and 6th+ order tributaries. And that's just today's green zone. We have to look at the FSI maps and realize how far east our bull trout and grayling went historically. In order to bring them back to historic levels you have to eliminate dams on the Belly, St Mary, Waterton, Oldman, Bow, Red Deer, Kananaskis, Spray, NSR and others. And land conversions to ag need be rolled back. You simply cannot solely eliminate angling, esp while coal mines are now on the table and forestry and o&g explorations continue.
To your points of C&R... between politicians hyper-allocating resources that open access to those same politicians creating a system whereby biologists cannot say anything opposing government policy to biologists buying into that and not rocking the boat in order to retain job security and pensions, to industry through the late 2000s claiming they didn't have to lead on access issues and their ongoing piss poor performance on stream crossings to that point... you end up in a place where bios, politicians and industry all shirked taking ownership of the most basic, obvious responsibility - that if people are allowed to drive and atv everywhere and if everywhere is opened up that people will use it. And once a herd gains access and spreads, a herd is impossible to stop. The sheer lack of pro-active planning and execution in the politician/industry/biologist triangle has failed miserably. There would be ZERO need for C&R on the S Ram, for example, had there been proactive planning and taking of ownership. That's one example (used given the video's focus).
Am I side-stepping anglers' use of the Ram fishery? No. hence why in every single comment in this thread I'm calling for an East Slope Trout Ecology & Handling Course. That's why this video is begging for gear restrictions. That's why in this video and our FB/IG & YTube feeds the conversation has awakened.
sad...
Things change alright.
Quite the sad scenario. Sorry to hear about this, the river you care so much about and fought so hard for. Would be delighted to see a group spring into action and fight for her. It would be a noble and enlightening cause.
We hope so! It and so many along Alberta's Eastern Slopes of the Rockies need it!