Is Euro Nymphing Really Fly Fishing?
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- After Kelly received countless questions his road tour about euro nymphing and competition angling, he decided to sit down and share his thoughts.
How do you feel? Leave your thoughts in the comments below.
The first time I heard the term "fly fishing competition," I thought the guy was joking. He had a very dry sense of humour. For me, about 30% of fly fishing's appeal is being ALONE on the water somewhere. 😂
Same reason I love how popular the southern catskills have gotten. The northern catskills have been all but abandoned. You can fish the good steams without seeing another person all season. They're all in Roscoe and Hancock! It is insane to me how few fly fishermen you will see on the north side of the range. Literally none most years. I only feel bad for all the shops that shut down
What euro nymphing really does, much more than indicator fishing or dry fly, or whatever, is acquaint the angler with the structure and flows of the deep runs. Even if one is not going to euro forever, the learning you get about drifts, speed of deep current, bottom structure, hydrodynamics, and so forth is absolutely invaluable to every other style of fishing. And it catches a ton of fish in situations where nobody else catches anything.
@@paigeloomis You're not in direct contact with the bottom, nor in straight contact with the fish when it takes. Most fish are tight to the bottom, and often just out of fast water, and a chubby can't fish fast water effectively at all. You're missing a lot, and you don't know it yet. If you're happy with a dry-dropper, that's fine. But if you want more, you're going to have to go full euro.
@@paigeloomis The chernobyl ant will create weight on your lifted line. That will impede your contact, and increase things like wind interference and tip drag on the rod. And because the chernobyl is fixed at a particular point, you can't fully follow the bottom contours like you need to. What you need to do is to feel the bottom directly through your rod, and see it directly through your weightless sighter on your line -- if you want to learn more about the contours below. But if you're happy, then hey, be happy. I'm just saying that there's more to learn if you're willing to find it out. You'll also find that there's no thrill like the direct contact you get when a big fish takes. Here's something else: you likely don't realize just how many fish are below your rod tip, or a very short distance out. The tendency is to want to cast out, rather than to explore what's at your feet. And there are more fish than you imagine right beneath your rod tip.
@@paigeloomis Always. Nice talking to you.
The problem for me is that indeed it DOES catch a ton of fish. And the trout are getting hammered as a result. One of the better known rivers in my region is very popular with Euronymphers and the fish are often in sad shape.
@@paigeloomis Regarding rods, I favour an 11' #3, but a #2 is even more sensitive, if what you're doing is looking for smaller trout. Moss is not usually a problem in faster-flowing or shallow areas, where euro excels. Even in pockets in the weeds, just dropping the fly in and letting it get down low works amazingly. But if you need a drift, you can always put a small float on, whenever you get to a mossy meadow. The key thing is to keep the fly low, though...just above the moss. And this, you can do by taking a pass or two, and seeing when you get some moss, and seeing your depth on your sighter, and then just sticking to just above that. With euro, you're fishing below your rod-tip, not at distance or on a steep angle, as you are with casting. You can beat the moss, if you're precise.
Dad tells a story about drinking in a bar in Livingston one night in the eighties, BSing with a couple older locals. On the subject of a huge brown mounted on the wall the one local says he caught it on a royal wulff. "That's right" says the other guy, " you never fished anything else hardly. A size 6 wasn't it?" "Yep. Couldn't ever see those damn little 8s"
Would be interesting to get Kelly’s view on 200 guide boats going down the Madison in the summer. Is that fly fishing or just a cluster f**** ?
Far and away the best post here.
I wanted to know more about fly fishing competitions so I went to see a competition that was taking place here in Canada a few years ago. It’s certainly not my type of fishing but I have a different look at those who compete. They used several techniques, several types of flies and managed to catch fish where local fishermen did not. It was in reading the river, their knowledge, the quality of the presentations, the precision of the casts that they impressed me.
I took up euronymphing a couple years ago years and really enjoy it. I also love dry fly fishing. That said, I just don’t understand all the smack talk that euronymphing isn’t fly fishing, and yet a bounce rig under a bobber is.
Years ago the old guys complained that nymphing wasn't real fly fishing. It's just "get off my lawn" style cranky old guys yelling at clouds. Fish how you like to fish and ignore the peanut gallery.
All that other stuff was controversial as well. I started fly fishing mid 70s, and there was controversy on weighted nymphs, sinking lines, basically everything. Actually I also rock climbed, and bow hunted, and those activities went into the toilet as land and resource exploiters also.
So now the National Park service is considering a policy that will treat drilling bolts as what it is: vandalism. And pro that gets stuck is going to be treated as the same, or at least littering. Chalk should banned also. Greed always wins out, until it doesn't. Fishermen are just one category of river users. It would be easy to come up with ways to disrupt their fishing, like floatilas of boaters, or wild swimmers. rock skippers, whatever... We better smarten up. And none of these other abusers of the environment are actually torturing animals, we are on a thin edge. Basically fishing is a form of systemic littering, and you can get huge fines for that in other cases.
I compete, and I will say, in competitions I use all methods of fly fishing. Not just tight lining. All the guys on team USA also implore all the methods, it just so happens that often the best method for conditions is tight lining. I got beat in a comp last year by a guy fishing dry dropper. I don’t own a shop so I’d never comment on what it’s like to be a shop owner. My guess is Kelly has never competed, I may be wrong, but there’s a hell of a lot more going on than just tight lining. Half of the comps are on lakes. So you have to understand still waters and different line set ups to get to the fish. You have to be a pretty well rounded angler to be a good competitor. My 2 cents.
100%
Well stated. Exactly what I was going to bring up. Lance Egan was winning one fly comps on drys , casting comps and ESPN outdoor games before and during his team USA years. He and all the comp guys are very accomplished Stillwater guys too.
He’s not saying that they don’t use all four rather that they should be required to use four tactics minimum.
@@northeasternflyno he’s saying competition fishing is BS. He has a right to that opinion.
@@northeasternfly You use the tactic for the right conditions. This is no different than any other angling sport. Why would I "require" someone to use a tactic that is not right for the conditions?
Aup and greetings from across the pond 🇬🇧
Firstly I'm not a competition angler, I'm not good enough.
I am a pleasure angler who follows the match scene purely to improve my own knowledge to help me catch fish.
Some of the best naturalists I've had the pleasure of meeting are competion anglers who have an uncanny ability to read the water and the enviroment around them to help them catch fish.
Not really sure what you guys & girls get up to your side of the water but we can fish all different disciplines many times a day folliwing the fish up and down in the water column.
There's no point fishing a weighted nymph if the fish are taking drys and buzzers in the top 12 inches of water. It's the ability to read and anticipate the environment were fishing in that makes good anglers.
As the purist would say there matching the hatch. Its just the hatch usually starts at the bottom of the water column.
Tight lines all 😊
I couldn't agree more. Euro nymphing reminds me of nymphing before strike indicators, but the flies and leaders are different. I try to master each kind of fly fishing and have fun doing it.
Learning how to Euro Nymph sometimes is the difference between a good day and a bad day. It is really a good tool for catching trout it’s the way flyfishing has evolved.
Guys with modern graphite rods and flies tied in Sri Lankan sweatshops whine about "traditional fly fishing". It's all a joke.
Can't help but chime in. But first, a disclaimer: I have nothing against competitive fly fishers, and acknowledge that competitions cultivate some exceptionally well-rounded anglers. I recently took note of the words of John Atherton regarding the nature of fly fishing, as it was, in the early post-war period of the late 40's. One detail he mentions is that fly fishing was inherently not competitive. I think that speaks to the nature of the criticism regarding the modern world of competitive fly fishing; there's something about it that is contrary to the roots of the sport. There's something about the fixation with catching as many fish as possible in a given session that challenges tradition. I own several euro rods and enjoy keeping up with the pace of innovation in that arena, but recently, while waiting for a Hendrickson hatch to come off, looking for rising targets with my dry fly rod, I watched a euro nympher work a run above me and it was an interesting vignette of the controversy. He waded quickly through water that would soon hold rising fish to hammer a swift run, quickly taking 3 fish before moving on. In one way, it's the fishing equivalent of driving around with your middle finger raised. I get it, I've been that guy, and likely will be again at some point. But as I get older, and spend more time on the water, I realize more that I'm a steward of a tradition. I'm a steward not because I choose to be, but because everyone who picks up a fly rod and attempts to fool a trout inherits the stewardship. I don't fault the euro nympher who fished above me or begrudge his chosen method and timing, but I do hope that from time to time, he picks up a dry fly rod, or swings a wet fly, or nymphs with a tastefully named, bead-less classic.
I agree with the comments about the fly fishing competition. Although competitors may use multi techniques/disciplines, the focus on numbers is unidimensional and forces most to choose euro nymphing technique. Fyi...you were right...i'm now geeking out on trout spey but using one-handed technique and a 3wt sage esn. It's a blast! And thanks, Kelly, as always - your euro trash hippie friend from Phoenix !
Yeah but for some reason my euro set up is not working to well in my lake sessions even though I'm chasing numbers.
I took up Euronymphing a couple years ago and really enjoy it. But I also really enjoy indicator fishing and when a hatch goes off, I’m fishing dries.
Having taken up Euronymphing, I find it almost fly fishing. It's closer to doodle-socking, dapping, Tenkara. It has nothing like the wave-action and flow of throwing fly line. It's quite different.
I agree with the preference for versatility. But the same critique could be levelled at bobber fishing with fly line and 9' leaders. (nevermind Euro). Consider this: A stout (e.g., 20 pound Maxima) 25 foot mono-rig can let you contact nymph, fish dry-dropper, streamers, or even just throw dries. That's actually way MORE versatile than many fly-line based traditional styles. So we shouldn't necessarily think the old ways are the best.
Great post . I clinch knot my mono rig to my floating fly line, for when the occasion rises.
When started into flyfishing as a teen, it wasn't at all about being in any competition to catch more fish. I found it hard. I caught less. I didn't like the crowds jocking for position to catching stringers of stockies. Fishing the hard places that had fewer opportunities with methods that fit the natural circumstances of that moment on a stream opened up a life time persut for me. It may sound foreign to some when I say I had the best day fishing. I didn't catch anything but I experienced .......
Same, great comment. I'm going through a very similar experience. Only I just passed one year fly fishing. At 49. I got tired of the numbers game. I'll take one beauty wild brown and a creek or river to myself over a year of catching my limit on stocked fish. Tying my own only makes those great days even better. I have been fishing forever. But I have trouble even talking about fishing with some folks these days. Numbers add up to nothing. I have a mega rich brother-in-law , and all the numbers he has in the bank never changed the fact that he's an a-hole. Lolol. Part timers only show up in April around here. Just ride it out. 🤘🏻
150 percent agreed. I'll take the adventure, the exploring and the overall experience any day over numbers of fish.
Well thos are somewhat valid points, but don't lose in mind that some of us get numbers on wild fish 😜. My point of view is. Number are what they are. Some days you catch over 100 fish's ( yes all wild) and that is fun because it allows you to work things out like how to work the fish, land them properly without harming them to much. And yes we will talk about thos great fun day for a long time 😅. And for me a day like that basically meant that the fish were out eating and I cracked the code.
Some day well they don't eat and things are tough 4 or 5 fish's wouldn't be that bad. Was that a bad day ? I don't think so. Hoping for better for sure. But after all it's fishing. I spent the day out in my happy place anyway.
Well comp fishing is for me the same. With a small variation. Yes of course number counts, but numbers aren't only related to how you fish on river. They us aswell were you fish and obviously it's fishing so a luck factor. What comp fishing is giving me is a feedback on my capacity to adapt to the fish. If I catch 2 fish's in 2 hours and every one else is catching 15 to 20... well I'm either the least lucky angler in the world but more likely, I didn't find the best way to fish that session.. it's
giving you feedback on how you fish. Plus you meet people with the same passion and share knowledge and approach. It just great funn. And winning? Well it's great feeling but let's face it. You don't win thos comp because you are the best 😊, just because you are a good angler that day and got lucky with finding fish faster than others and had a good stretch of river that you exploited properly. Some day it will be on dry. Someday, it will be nymphing but whatever works for you 😅
@julienthiriet4638 I was pretty much talking about the powerbait brigade, wormers, or what I used to do with little x-raps and such. I got tired of it being easy, so I turned the page. I hope to at some point start having 20 fish days on flies. Dries, when I've gotten it right, have made magic a few times. But I'm definitely not there yet. 🤘🏻
Awesome video! Well you certainly got everyone stirred up.🤣 Well done! Best!
I bet the pros fishing those tournaments could outfish Kelly in every single discipline and tie way better flies. They are better all around fly fisherman than he (or most of us) will ever be.
I couldn’t agree more. I personally fish all aspects of fly as well. There are days one one discipline is better than the other. I do like to tight line, also like to use jig streamers as well on my “Euro” rod. As for the competition aspect, the fact there is even fly fishing competition is foolish to me. But that’s my opinion.
They aren’t restricted to just euro nymphing in the competitions. They are expert in all aspects of fly fishing and have to be to be effective across all of the different water types and conditions. The perception that competition fly fishing is just based on euro nymphing is wrong. Innovation in our sport is awesome. Let’s not get hung up on the wrong things.
Kelly talking nonsense. Dude doesn’t know shit Comp fishing is all styles and lake fishing. You can’t euronymph lakes Kelly. Don’t know why he made a video presenting incorrect information to people.
Finally someone says the same I've been saying its not a fly fishing competition it euro competition.
I've read several competition reports from the World Fly Fishing Championship and the events included both river and lake sessions. On the river the competitor carries multiple rods with various set-ups including, nymphing, dry dropper and dry fly. For the lake the competitor could be on a boat or located along the shore, again carrying multiple rods with different line set-ups. I'm not familiar with local competitions, perhaps they are only river sessions. Kelly seems a bit uneducated on these World Fly Fishing Championship events and how they are conducted.
Yep he have no clue and just make competition angler looking shit 😂 good job.
Although in the competition anglers may choose to use whatever style within rules, the focus is on number of fish caught. I understood Kelly's point was to also add the dimension of technique to be used and have focused sessions for each technique. This nuance would tease out the most well-rounded angler.
@@skyleawood2649 One could also make the argument that the best well-rounded angler would be the one that selects the best technique for the conditions. While the count of the number of fish in the World Fly Fishing Championship more greatly influences the anglers score, length is also a factor adding additional points. I myself want to become a more well-rounded angler so I took Kelly's Streamer class last fall ... imagine the stories that he tells every night while you are having dinner with him.
@skyleawood2649 the thing is what defines a comp angler skill and quality isn't winning one comp but been always within the top end of every comp. If you look at top level comp anglers like French, Spanish and other constantly good nations the reason why they are always good. Is because they build up they adapting capabilities. Doesn't mater what technique, what species is targeted ( stay fresh water in the matter as never been involved in salt water I can't speak ) they will be at the top most likely. They are all good at nymphing for sure. But have a look at the last session Pierre pulled out on past year world cup ( video online) you will realise most of us comp or not have a lot to learn from thos guys that managed to master all techniques.
Doing good once you need to be good in one thing. Doing good all the time you need to know it all 😅
Ya know what we need more of in this country?……Division. More of “us vs. them” more of “I’m right and you’re wrong.” Makes perfect sense.
Go out and fish and quit worrying about what everyone else is doing
Never change Kelly!
Where can I find that blue book? Whats the title?
ALRIGHT!!!!
KG posting up in the paint & going hard to the hole.
I am definitely on board with the " no soul" view......SOOOOOOO KG🙏
As usual, some very well thought out and articulated views,
All from one of the leaders in his profession w MANY facets to his impressive leadership mojo.
Don't go changing Dude👏👏👏👏👏👏
I’m with you. And as far as pictures of my fish if don’t want to believe me on what I landed I don’t really care. It’s my satisfaction.
i totally agree im not a big picture guy . Ifish for my self . been fly fishing over 60 yrs like the old ways, don t like tournament fishing or hunting ....
I was totally ready to disagree with Kelly but honestly he makes a good argument. I would love to see an all around tournament style.
Hahaha love it! They have no soul! Also, you should host a competition for the 4 disciplines! I could think of no one better, and the location in SW Montana would be quintessentially perfect. Like hosting the ultimate fly fishing competition in the Mecca of fly fishing.
I'm really trying to figure out where all these comments are coming from. Did any of you listen to what Kelly is saying, or do you not like the the title of the video? All he says is that he doesn't like the flies, and it shouldn't be the one representation of competition fly fishing. I believe he has enough clout in the world of fly fishing to have these opinions, and I tend to agree with him. He's not judging anyone on how they're fishing, and neither am I. Fishing is fun, do what makes you happy. Just wanted to add that when you're euro nymphing, you're not casting or mending. These are two skills that are necessary to all other types of fly fishing. You can get butt hurt about that, but it's true.
What ever floats your boat . Me personally would rather dry fly or streamer fish.
I agree 100% . Me? I don’t fish to compete. Period!! Yes , I did buy a euro nymph rod . Because that is just another style in fly fishing . I have been playing pool since I was 12 . I never play for money . One happening in fly fishing that really bothers me is individuals who have no knowledge of tying knots.They are in such a rush to fish that they tie only one knot . People who connect fly line to leader via a loop knot…. Well I just shake my head. There a place and purpose for all knots…. Learn them .
I have no problems with euro nymphing. I started out traditional fly fishing (and was mediocre at best) before getting big into euro nymphing. I did euro for a good bit of time, but I now mostly do traditional fly fishing now. Having done both and having gotten really damn good at euro nymphing (I'm talkin 50+ fish days consistently), I have found that I just enjoy the whole process of traditional fly fishing more. Honestly, what I have learned from euro nymphing (in particular about depth and depth management with nymphs) has actually significantly improved my success with nymphing on traditional fly fishing setups. I still enjoy euro nymphing on occassion.
That being said, I find it odd that Kelly would mention bass fishing in particular yet hold his opinion about fly fishing competitions with regards to requiring the use of multiple fly fishing tactics in fly fishing comps. It's akin to saying bass competitions should require anglers to use every type of technique in bass fishing (of which there are countless methods). Some bass anglers win competitions using literally one technique the entire time, and we are talking about multi-day tournaments. Kelly claims his qualm is with calling trout fishing comps "fly fishing comps;" however, I get the impression there is more to it than that. What he said early in the video about the nymph having "no soul" is likely more in alignment with how he really feels about euro nymphing. To an extent, I can understand the opposition to euro nymphing because of how far away it is from the roots of traditional fly fishing. However, the fact of the matter is that the quiver of fly fishing techniques/methods has grown, and that's just something that will have to be accepted, much like how it is with bass fishing.
I like the idea of fly fishing comps having 4 disciplines; similar to gymnastics or skiing, all four should be included. There would be individual discipline champions and an all-around champion.
I personally don’t enjoy the competitions, it isn’t why I fish, but I can see the allure.
The best part about fly fishing is it can be looked at as an equation that needs solving. Sometimes the correct answer is a euro rig, sometimes you need a floating line with a dry fly. I almost always fish a dry, a euro rig, and a streamer rig any given day on the water. It just depends on what the hole ive just walked up to needs.
I respect your opinion. I would like to point out that comparing fly fishing to conventional bass fishing is like comparing a canoe to a container ship. Bass fishing has a rod for every style, fly fishing is not as tackle specific. Additionally the opinion that competition fishermen are just chucking heavily weighted flies and dredging the bottom is beyond ignorant. Also the opinion that european nymphs don't have any soul.... lol! The only nymph you are using for comparison is a perdigon? Lets just ignore all the others that are identical to standard wet flies, nymphs, even micro streamers but tied on a jig style hook. Everyone has an opinion, doesn't make them right.
....And what you call streamers aren't really streamers; they're fl-uers----a cross between a fly and a lure
@@mikevalla2349 are you referring to articulated streamers like the circus peanut or sex dungeon?
Ah man but Kelly what if I just love the mop fly on a euro rig! Haha Im pretty well rounded though too. I agree- dont ever change!
It's crazy to me that a hobby meant to get people in the outdoors has unspoken (until now) rules like "this fly has no soul" or "you shouldn't compete" because it's not traditional. As a guy who spends a sickening amount of time in an office, I need this hobby and euronymphing allow me to catch fish and keeps me addicted to this great activity. Shi##ing on any type of fly fishing doesn't serve the sport well.
the fly fishing tournaments around my area allow “all four disciplines” of fly fishing during the tournament….theres just an obvious reason most of the competitors use euro 😉
Just to correct you on fly fishing competition before you bash it, you can use nymphs, streamers, wet flies, and dry flies. The reason why a lot uses euro nymph style is because it catches a lot of fish hence "competition" There are rules on the size of beads, hooks etc....
LOL, first encountered Euro about 20+ years ago. i was invited to Roaring River Missouri on opening day by a very excited brother in-law, we were shoulder to shoulder with hundreds of People from Arkansas and Missouri who were all rigged with fly rods with red and white bobbers, 3'-4' of leader with a glow bug / egg imitation fly, one guy was using lead jighead hooks with white dental floss wrapped around the hook, evidently the stockers were used to eating the end trail of gutted fish so it worked great. if your technique doesn't require you learning to cast a fly line at least 20 to 30', its not fly fishing.
I was one dimensional with nymphing when I started out. I’ve hardly ever thrown a streamer, but now I mostly resort to dry fly fishing. Personally I’d rather catch one trout on a dry than 12 any other way. Hell I almost exclusively fish for bass on top water and always have. I love the challenge and I curse it almost any day on the water. Yet here I am. 😂
Dude, I *love* people with strong opinions like this lol. Same with Randy B and his virulent distaste for front facing sonar in bass fishing.
For me tightlining is an ultimate means to an end when all else fails. If there is ZERO evidence of fish. If things are calm and spooky and I feel like they might get turned off easily, that’s when I’ll squeak in there with a tightline hares ear or something like that. I agree about the flies, too. I like to keep a couple of perdigons around for deep, quick water…but other than that, those nymphs just look horrible. Bare jig hooks with some thread and a large bead. One thing I’ll never do is get a dedicated setup for it. Those 11’ 2wts with pure mono in the reel…it just looks goofy to me. I have enough trouble walking through the woods with a 9-10’ rod for godsake lol
Exactly this! Why not use all the tools in your quiver!
We needed one of those 25mins videos on this…. LOL
I’ve been following your site for a while now and learned a lot of fly tying basics even though I’ve been tying for many years now probably close to 40. I never really thought my flies looked that good mostly because I never had all of the right material to tie the fly right. I’ve learned now through you, Savage fly , and Mad River not to feel bad about substituting material. I found myself on a local river talking to a young guy setting up to fish a local NewHampshire trout stream. He was fairly new to fly fishing, so I was pointing out to him what I thought was a cadis hatch, and mentioned that he should try a few of my flies which I gave him my favorite which is an orange hornberg. I also gave him some deer hair caddies flies and pheasant quill nymphs. Yay I finally know what I’m tying. So I’m 70 years old , fly fishing since I was a kid, self taught in fly fishing as well as tying, though I picked up quite a few pointers along the way, I did not realize why I did not like or even try the euro nymphs( did not even know that’s what they were called until this video. Can’t get into it, I like the classic flies I like tying them, I like fishing them. Watching your videos and going step by step my flies certainly look better and when I handed the kid a few flies and I looked in my box without a magnifier I thought they looked great. So I guess that I may be an old timer now however I learned a lot of my skills off some old timers from the seventies. The first and only knot that I was taught was the Turle knot. ( I’m not a speller). I liked that knot because I thought the fly sat better on the water with the line coming up through the center of the eye. No one ties that knot any more. I’m reassured watching your videos that we fish for the most part the same way, especially when you talk the four disciplines since those are the flies I use. Except when I bass fish I just use little poppers. That kids eyes really lit up when I gave them the flies, I’ll do that more often adding the lecture that he should start tying his own. I love your videos, I use to say when your to lazy to go fishing you can always watch others. But kidding aside man my flies are looking great thanks.
Someone has a chip on there shoulder 😂🎣
This is coming from a guy that fly fishes with a bobber.
This went for rant to perplexingly ignorant rant about halve way though. Maybe next time someone ask you about competition fly fishing you should just reply “Can’t comment because I know nothing about it”.
Spot on Kelly! Doodle socking with a fly rod just plain sucks a$$.
Re the fly fishing championship - I understand you can use any legal method you wish... it's just that the competition is based on the total length of fish caught. Therefore more fish caught = greater chance of winning. Enter Euro nymphing - an extremely successful method of fishing that uses a fly. The fact the fly has no "soul" is irrelevant. I don't do comp fishing, but I have used a fly of my own design, that is just a bit of rabbit fur for a tail, and thick copper wound around the shank. No soul whatsoever, and looks ugly as hell - but when its on, its on. I've had 6 fish in 30 minutes with that type of fly, and I was just standard upstream nymphing. Would love to see how it goes with the eruo style of nymphing. For me, to answer the question of is someone fly fishing, I simply look at what they are using in the water - is it a legal hook with some legal material tied to the hook? If yes then its fly fishing. And so the method used, so long as its legal, does not matter. I'm not a purist. (The worst purists I've met incidentally have all been dry fly fisherman.) But if you have colour in the water after rain/and or the fish are down deep the nymphs or streamers are the way to go. The main thing is that you are out there doing it. Tight lines.
One dimension?! Every comp fisher I know in addition to euro nymping uses drys, dry droppers, streamer fishing, jigging streamers, and fishes lakes from boats and banks in comps as well. These are some of the most well rounded anglers I know. They use different techniques based on the location, temp, time of year, water depth, hatches, etc, etc etc. Maybe go to a comp and watch what they do before forming an opinion. You might be surprised.
Lmao perfect timing spent last weekend euro nymphing for the first time (IDk if its real euro, I had a euro rod but i mostly fished drop shot with unweighted nymphs on tags) it was super effective for me, and I hate bobbers
60 years ago my dad put a level wind reel loaded with Dacron line on his old horrocks ibbotson bamboo fly rod and swung soft craws through runs on the river for smallmouth bass. He even used the same setup when fishing for crappie and bass in ponds. He never claimed it was fly fishing. To him it was just fishing and he used the bamboo fly rod for the extra length and reach.
People can fish anyway they like. If catching fish is all that matters, by all means use whatever technique does that. As for myself, I enjoy the esoteric aspect of fly fishing, i.e. the art of casting, the art of creating flies that represent forage, and the beauty of nature on the river. If I happen to catch fish (I do try) then my day is that much better. I see each outing as an opportunity to ply the skills I have developed and to learn something new about the waters I fish and the art of fly fishing in its basic sense. In my world fly fishing is relaxing, enjoyable, and educational. I have no use for competitive angling of any kind. Thank you for listening to my TED Talk.
Euro nymphers very rarely cast a tapered fly line, which in my mind (tapered fly line + fly casting via manipulating a fly line) = fly fishing.
Non tapered line won’t guide a cast and also is not legal in comps.
I don't think the one-dimensional aspect is really the issue. Out here in the PNW, we've got spey rod steelhead guys who are intensely focused specialists and, in some cases, not at all well-rounded. But nobody would ever say what they do isn't fly fishing and what they do is actually pretty cool, unlike euro which is geeky. Spey flies have super soul.
Geezus, perfect example of someone I wouldn't want to have a beer with
Time to power wash the coffee cup... good perspective on competition, thanks
I feel that the competition has no place in fly fishing, because of what you say Kelly, this is a discipline of mind and body. The way to ruin something is to make it a competition.
Why don’t you watch a US nationals before commenting. Those guys use every technique in the book and are advancing the curve of the sport. Euro nymphing is comp fishing 101 and maybe 10% of the game. FLY fishing competition it certainly is.
Dry fly and swinging to the sunset of my life
The most surprising thing about this video is that Kelly kept it under an hour 😮
You know I would have to agree with Kelly 100% on this. An idiot can cast a euro setup, I know because I'm the idiot! Lol I went from only catching a few trout to catching 25 in a couple hours when I started euro nymping. Now it's pretty much all I do. Why? Because I like catching fish. It would really change the competition if they did it like Kelly mentions. Your top anglers might not be the best anymore??
Love it!!! The best video ever!!! So true !!! I agree 110 percent!! Euro nymphing is not fly fishing
Don’t be mad because someone can out-fish you in several ways, any day of the week. You’re that douche who gets mad when you see people catch fish.
True
WTF? euro nymphing is beautiful on it's own way, it's the only way of fly fishing where you directly connected to your flies, and feel the strike immediately. No line slack, no delay. Isn't something special in it?
Now release the unedited 45 minute rant! Thanks for keep it real and telling the truth.
I agree that to have a flyfishing competition they should have to fish all 4 phases of fly fishing. Back in the 1970's I started fly fishing and started out using streamers and wet flys. Then after a couple years I got into dryfly fishing and became a snob. If it wasn't on top it wasn't fly fishing. This year I started this Euro Nymphing thing. I wanted to try it and it is fun. There is a whole new learning curve with it and I like it. I am not going to give up dryfly or streamer fishing or wet flys either, but Euro Nymphing is a fun and productive way to fish in the times when no or little surface activity is happening.
Who cares.
Well said and it is about time to address some of the nonsense that has invaded our beloved pastime.
I am 58 and lucky enough to have fished for 53 of those years and fly fished for most of them. Never took lessons, except for my own that I learned the hard way. But I fish a lot and read a lot. Tribalism has invaded every corner of the word we live in. And now there is this online battle over what “fly fishing” is. Hate to spoil the party, but we are not that important and nobody really cares.
As an angler, I am on the water because I love being outside. I am curious and enjoy the adventures that lead to a better understanding of the natural world. The electric strike, set, head-shake and heavy tug of a big fish are the gravy. But that is not why I fish. And I certainly don’t care what the guy next to me is doing. But I get a little pissed when he tells me what I should be doing.
For the last 30 years, I have fly fished almost exclusively. I enjoy the feel of the long rod and the movement of the line. I often fish with friends who use other tackle, even (God forbid) live bait. Ever watch a skilled bait fisherman (or fisher person?) work a live minnow on a drop-shot rig? A skilled bass master work a plastic worm over structure? All good.
I love to fish dries when there are bugs on the water. The act of feeling the line shoot and then carefully reaching for the arial mend, and then wait, wait, mend, wait, set! It is Zen like, even therapeutic. Or casting downstream with a pair of soft hackle wets…remain mindful of the sink, mend, swing, mend, swing, mend, swing… wait, wait, then then the gentle “Leisenring” lift ( a stream that I have fished since I was a kid has a run named after him) and than BAM!! Nothing like the hit on a swinging wet. And then there’s the streamer game. Some of the biggest browns of my life came to the net in complete darkness or under the soft red glow of a headlamp after a fight that can only be described as utter mayhem.
And then the nymphing game. As a Pennsylvanian, the nymphing style of anglers such as Joe Humphreys was baked into the cake of what I learned as a young angler. He wisely preached, “The difference between a good angler and a great angler is one split shot”. I started using mono leaders and heavily weighted flies years before all of this “euro” hullabaloo started. The technique worked, though it was not stylish at the time. It took skill. Great skill, as does modern tight line fishing. Which, by the way, is fly fishing. And, Kelly, some of those perdigons, Walt’s worms, blowtorches, frenchies, etc., etc., have soul. The proportions are critical and the ties must be clean and neat (most times). As anglers, we are all in the minority. Let’s all get along and learn from each other. Let the rest of the world tear themselves apart.
Glad I got that off my chest.
Tight lines, friends.
MrE
Personally I hate competition angling as it takes the fun/sport outta fushing. I've seen folk running about rivers like mad men trying to get to the best spots
YUP!!! Spot on, Kelly!
Great piece and could not agree more. From motorcycles to boats, like fly fishing, I've heard it all. Are you a hog rider or a rice burner, are you a blow hard or oil burner? I've had them all, enjoy some more than others but appreciate each for their merits. Good to hear you call bullshit on that in fishing, and just get out on the water! Thanks for all your great content and loving my Streamer X down here in the mountains of Utah.
There is a woman named katka svagrova who is a world champion in the competition style that Kelly mentions. She fishes all over the world using many different styles. Seems pretty cool too! She might agree that all styles are useful and fun.
I think the most annoying thing is them loading a fly reel with mono and then high sticking and thinking they reinvented the wheel. A lot of people start off euro nymphing because lets be honest, it doesn't take a lot of skill, and they have no idea how to actually cast a fly rod. The tally counters are probably the most cringy thing about it, hahaha.
Love your channel…flushing this opinion on euro nymphing though. 😂
Fishing is fishing. Get out and fish.
Agreed. No reason to be judging people for how they get enjoyment fishing. I did comps for an awhile and met great people and learned new streamer, dry, and loch style tips so I’m not sure what he’s talking about that it’s euro only. To each their own.
If you don’t care how people do it then don’t upload the video.
Fishing is fishing but tying my own flies is what makes me happy. Fly fishing is my favorite.
Fishing is fishing. Nice words of wizdumb Confucius. Youre all walk the walk guy no talk about fishing just get out there and go fish who cares about talking? Then what the F!! Are you doing on RUclips in the comment section? Youre obviously from California huh? You’re like I don’t see why there’s never any reason to go outside and fish. In some places it’s below freezing and in some places there’s this thing called “run off” when huge amounts of snow pack melts and huge amounts of water runs off making fishing not worth the time.
What about dynamite? What about telephones? 🐠
A big fan of Kelly and his straight talking views, of which in the main I agree with and one of the few I can listen too at length. This one I’m afraid is a bit wide of the mark for me and if serious shows a lack of knowledge of competitive fly fishing . “Euro” is one method that is wildly used in competition and when practiced at a high level is in some aspects more difficult than a lot of methods that utilise more fly line . Outside of maybe the top 10% of anglers in the US at least, “Euro” in the states seems to some degree to have become slinging overweight flys and even shot / indicators on all mono rigs- a long way from its roots and all prohibited under the rules in an actual FIPS event. The fact is that at world and Euro level , to succeed you need a high level of ability in all aspects of fly fishing , including being able to adapt to non game fish like Chub / Dace or common European whitefish . It’s as far from a Euro nymph world championship as you can get. The part of this post that probably pushed my buttons the most is the divisive nature of it - one group of people who stick hooks in fish for fun one way throwing bricks at a group who do it differently, a very dangerous path these days and very prevalent in the comments. If at some point the “Anti’s” come for our right to fish they won’t distinguish between a Comp angler who thinks he’s the best in the world because he can flick tungsten , a spider swinger who thinks he’s morally superior because he sticks his fish on cane or a meat chucker who occasionally makes them wear it when they didn’t eat it, they will come for us all as “sport fishers”, and in some countries that is sadly much closer than we think . On a different note I’ve called into the Slide inn about 10 times in the past hoping to meet the man himself, think he’s been fishing every single time…. Probably Euroing the S##T out the Maddison 😂
Here here!
All he said was not to get stuck fishing only one style, and you took that very personally.
@@Taylor-zq1ki Not at all , my only objection is to the misinformed comments about world level competition . Maybe for genuine reasons , maybe to be inflammatory or maybe just badly edited and a bit misleading, either way uncharacteristically inaccurate for mr G. I don’t expect everyone to “like” competition angling but in an ideal world I personally think all anglers should stick together rather than taking shots based on an opinion or a preference. Doesn’t really change my level of respect for his significant contributions to the sport but equally I’m entitled to my own much more experienced opinion when it comes down to whats required at world level and its 100% not just “Euro”. Still hoping to meet Kelly in person one day.
Gentlemen, Mr. Croston knows what he is talking about for a fact! I understand why he may have taken this a bit personally, however, he has some very valid points, and has every right to his opinion. A well rounded angler and especially an angler that just loves to fish will fish with a shoestring and a fresh cut limb in a mud puddle after a fresh rain just to keep it honest! I myself fish any and all methods I can to just enjoy my time on the water, sure I have my preferences, but that doesn’t mean the fish will always eat what I’m throwing, and being somewhat intelligent, I switch it up. I agree 100% with Mr. Croston that those that would take away the rights to fish absolutely will not differentiate between one specific type of angler over another. Mr. Croston, if you read this, I would like to thank you for your contribution to our sport as well, absolutely in love with my Hardy ultralight rods and my Hardy reels, by far some of the best I’ve ever had the pleasure of using.
Euro is widely used in competition in part due to the current rules of fly fishing competitions. With that said, there are times when getting deep, regardless of how you do it, is the best way to catch fish. I agree with Kelly that I would love to see a competition which included some of the other styles that get left off the table.
Mr. Gallup. I enjoyed your comments in this vid and agree with most. But, there's always a but right..lol! As a tyer of euro flys, I do put soul into it. There are many "standard" patterns, and I honed my skills there. As you grow as a tyer, you learn where you can add or take away. You start to envision the bug, as it drifts. My stonefly imitations have become works of art to me. And the locals who want them, can't find them anywhere else. They do have soul brother. I guess it comes from just being a guy in a little place who ties. I enjoy all the disciplines of fly fishing. I also tye trolling and bass flys. Soul is all of them. Thanks for all the cool vids. I live in the Catskills of NY. Get to do it all here and love it. If you ever get out this way maybe we can hit the river together. I have a page on FB called Rock Bottom Fishing. Check it out if you get a chance. Tight lines!
There are still plenty of elitist fly fisherman who think nymphs are essentially cheating. There are fly fishermen out there who think if you're not tying your own, you're cheating or somehow not really embracing the sport. This dismissal of Euro nymphing is just another chapter of the same boring book, where people who catch WAY more fish are somehow less sporting than "purists" whose rules are only meant to keep others away. While you guys are out there fishing, I'll be more than content to be catching.
None of that is the same. Euronymphing does not require a fly rod. If it doesn't require a fly rod it isnt fly fishing
@@ThatSB I'm curious how people ever fly fished before the advent of "fly rods". I guess floating line is cheating, too? Thanks for playing, friend.
@@ThatSB Euro nymphing is actually most successful using a specialized fly rod. But I can probably dry fly fish with a spinning rod. The line is more important - if you use only 6lb leader on the reel then getting a dry fly out could be an issue, but you would still be able to flick out any weighted nymph. So are we saying that because you can flick out nymphs with a spinning rod then nymph fishing isn't fly fishing? So only dries and streamers are 'true' fly fishing?
Spot on, love the varied comments too. Make it a multi-level thing including Euro, Stillwater, and Tenkara, watch people lose their s**t. Why does everything need to be competitive?? What floats my boat is the variety of places, fish, and the art form that fly fishing encompasses. My former father in law was British, fished cane, used silk line, tied his own flies. The effort that produced his eventual catches and the peace it gave him doing it inspired me to try the sport. I now do as much of it as I can get away with, and I realllllly enjoy floating as well (both rivers and lakes). My winters are spent joyfully tying, trying new methods and materials, reading and watching fishing videos. Might we also include multiple species fishing in a world champion competition? Say for instance saltwater, pike, bass, carp? I agree with Kelly about it being whatever suits your mood, just go do it, get out there, fish and enjoy! Good grief, get a grip folks!
Click bait
What a pointless video
Hey Kelly, I've been trout fishing for nearly 70 years. I'm down with what you said. The best fly fisherman is a ten year old kid with garden hackle because no one is having more fun. When I was 12 I was looking at a collection of wet flies and I was sure the names gave them magic. They're still magic,
I might have the same opinion if I sold $9 streamers that contained the souls of five Whiting chickens and only fished tailwater😂
Thank you Kelly. Great take on this way of fishing. Never been a great fan of competition in fly fishing. Have a great summer.
The truth is you can put a euro nymph on a spinning rod with 4lb braid, a fluorocarbon leader cast it out a mile and catch 100 fish, so it’s not fly fishing in my books at all if that euro nymph is on a fly rod. It’s the same as people who say double hauling isn’t fly fishing because you can’t catch fish in the air, well I love casting the fly line to the backing all day long if permitted and when it counts and you need the perfect cast on a rising fish I have it covered whereas these other so called fly fisherman mess up that cast because they basically can’t cast in the first place, I don’t need to catch 100 fish in a day (I can but fly fishing is so much more and most people miss out on that point)
End of story.
The people who euro nymph constantly have no idea what to do when trout are feeding/rising and you’re catching fishing after fish and they always yell out “what are you throwing to them?” I tell them “a organic orange nymph, you better put one on” Hahaha
I agree just because you can cast something out on a fly rod doesn’t make it fly fishing.
I am not good at casting so euro nymphing makes it easy for me to catch fish. Is that so wrong? Yes I get your points that a euro nymph can be cast on a spin rod so maybe it’s not fly fishing in a traditional sense, but it’s still fun!!
@@goldenland6106 you answered you’re own question, euro nymphing is NOT fly fishing.
@@SuperReefdog I couldn’t agree more. These guys (euro jiggers) have no idea what to when fish are feed on emerges for example let alone putting In perfect casts one after another.
And they are always the first to ask “how are you catching them”? “Or what fly are you using and do you have a spare one?” But these same clowns will then proceed to ask you “how many fish have you caught today?” Then they go ahead and say “well I out fished you then”.
Thanks, I don’t feel so old or opinionated after listening to you.
Hi Kelly, thanks for sharing and thank you for your streamer techniques which I find very interesting. However, I wanted to point out that there are a number of assumptions that you make here which are just factually incorrect, and usually seem to be made by people who have never actually fished in a competition. Firstly, comp fishing is not all euro-nymphing, far from it. Yes euro-nymphing is definitely a core technique but it is just one arrow in the quiver, a good comp angler needs to be effective at ALL techniques. I fish comps in Australia, and if I could describe for you fishing in the most recent national championships, we had 5 x 3hr sessions, 2 of them on rivers, 2 of them lakes from a boat (loch style), and 1 small lake from the bank. Over those sessions I caught 9 fish in the lakes and 20 in the rivers. The 9 lake fish were all on either streamers or wet flies. The river fish were 11 euro nymphing, 7 on nymph under dry, 1 swinging a streamer and 1 on dry fly. It is not unusual depending on the river for an angler to catch at least half of their fish on dries. I recently did a workshop with 2 former members of the Spanish team, former world champions. Yes they are incredibly skilled euro nymphers, but I assure you that their dry fly fishing is also truly amazing, as is their technique across all the conventional fly line tactics. I don't know about your comp scene over there, but I can assure you that on the world stage successful comp anglers are very well rounded and skillful across all techniques, and will use whichever is the appropriate technique for the water they are given. Comp fishing is not for everyone that's for sure, but from my perspective it's a fantastic way to develop your angling skills, it's a humbling experience, and it's great fun. I've met some great friends and had a blast doing it, I don't understand why people feel the need to put it down when they have never actually tried it. Or perhaps they have, but got their arse handed to them and then never came back, that happens sometimes too......Cheers from Oz! :)
Your last sentence about people trying it and getting beat then going sour on it is bang on. Do one comp, get your ass kicked then it’s all “it’s just not what fly fishings about”. Wouldn’t say that if they won it.
Most of us got our ass kicked when we started (and still sometimes do) but it’s a great way to keep learning.
@@OnTheFlyNZ Haha, true! 😂
Well said Peachy
Hey peachy you doth protest too much.
I was just about to write a comment in the same vein as yours mate but you saved me the trouble, I’ve recently started comp fishing down here in Vic and Kelly saying comp fishing is just euro is the most out of touch shit I’ve heard in a long time! Half the comps are lakes so have fun tight lining those 😂
I think that euro flies do t carry the same artistic and impressionistic qualities. Let’s face it, fly tying is an art form. I got a euro set up last year and went out with a friend that is renowned in the western fly fishing world like you, Kelly. He showed me how to euro nymph and I immediately caught nice fish. But it isn’t where I began my journey with fly tying and fishing so I’m back to drop shot nymphing with flies that have soul! Thanks for all your awesome content!
I had a small booklet, maybe 30-40 pages I bought back in the late 60’s or early 70’s. It was about flys and tying em! In that book was a description of a weighted jig fly method which he fished with a long ultra light spinning rod not a fly rod. One of his favourite flys was the Gimp which he tied on a lead weighted # 12 or 14 jig hook typical of the period! So it did not start as Euro Nymphing but as ultra light open faced spin fishing! He claimed it was very effective and showed pictures of multiple large trout he caught as evidence! It is a matter of opinion if it is more effective with a fly rod! I think an ultra light open faced spinning rod may have advantages? Your choice!
I’m sure lance egan, Devin Olson, or George Daniel could all give Kelly a run for his money in whatever discipline
Doubtful. I would put my money on Kelly 100% of the time. If you don’t think so you don’t really know who he is.
Truth be told Brandon Soucie from Taylor Creek Fly Shop in Basalt Colorado can out fish Devon, Lance or anyone else all day
I don't agree with what you said because in the 2023 word Flyfishing Championship in Slovakia the eventioul world champion was also using dry flies , I've see it on videos ,in the worll Championships top anglers can fish any method that is most Suitable to the beat they are on.
Winter sticking around pretty long in MT looks like! 😂
Winter never started in Montana this year. Rivers will be closed, go to Colorado.
@@willhenslee9712 Sorry we are closed to tourists this yr, also.
I dont use a rod or reel any more. Just line in my hand with whatever fly. I call it caveman style lol.
careful, the purists will say that's no bueno
This can only be called caveman fishing if you use wild horse tail hair or the strands of tail hairs collected form a pure blood brahma bull on the first 5 minutes of a total eclipse. And they must harvested with a stone knife. But if your not a purist then just some mono you picked up at wallie world with the flies of your choice then just enjoy 😁
i put on my stork beak and squat stream side, ready to plunge my face into the water
When Kelly's book, "Modern Streamers for Trophy Trout," was published a lot of old farts didn't like his flies or his techniques. They said, "That's not fly fishing!"
Now Kelly is an old fart.
If I'm out fishing on my home river (the Truckee in California and just across the Nevada border), what I use depends on my intention for that day... I can, and sometimes do, fish dry flies on the surface, but all I'm going to get are babies 1-2 years old... If I want to catch anything big, like a fat brownie or mature cutthroat, I have to get down deep to the slower moving current along the bottoms of deep slots and pockets. When the Truckee is running at 4-600 CFM, or like last year when it was nearly 900 for practically the whole bloody summer, the only way you're getting down there is with a "soul-less nymph", as you put it. If anybody thinks it's cheating to high-stick nymph fish, then come try wading out into the cauldron and I guarantee you'll change your mind in a heartbeat... Not to mention that novice anglers (regardless of their technique) likely kill many many of those little 1-2 year old fish that they think they're releasing unharmed. I'm not out to call anybody a cheater (even the fat cats who can afford a guided drift boat)... I just want to see the rivers respected, protected and effectively managed so that my kids' kids will still be able to go hook a monster and feel the thrill that brings.
Euro nymphers are totally annoying. Seems like they are so obsessed with their sighters. They have thumb and index finger rings, wear tight pants that are 4” short so that you can see that they don’t have socks on, and are on their phones while fishing. Stereotype I don’t think so. Love Kelly one of the industries straight talkers
The amount of people that missed the point of this video is astonishing. Mostly euro commenters and people who are sore in the backside. All four disciplines was the point. Nobody cares about your feelings.
Its funny because some euro guys like George Daniel say something similar about fly fishing. George said that euro nymphing can get in the way of beginers develpment because it's so effective. They won't want to do anything else.
Competition breeds innovation. You can thank competitive angling for recent innovations in fly tying, stronger tippets, better leader systems, redesigned rods to handle light tippet, etc.... You don't have to like competitive angling, but you may want to realize that you are probably benefiting more from competitive angling than you know if you've purchased anything in the last 5 yrs from a fly shop. These things may not have started in competitive angling (it's not lost on us that JH was doing something similar before most of us were even born), but learning about competitive angling helped my fishing tremendously without ever having to enter a competition in my life.