Big question is Islam is compatible with democracy and secularism. Answer is no. Why see globally 90 percent Islamic nations have no democracy and secularism. See in neighbourhood of India, Afghanistan Pakistan and Bangladesh. Totally failed. Some thing is seriously wrong with religious ideology.
To an outsider like me, Pakistan can seem like an overgrown 77-year-old child. Whether Pakistanis agree or not, the country appears to have made little progress in its journey toward becoming a true democracy. Several factors contribute to this, including greed, corruption, exploitation, and the relentless grip on power through any means necessary. There have been deliberate efforts to keep the public uninformed and blind to the realities on the ground. It’s only with the rise of social media that the populace has begun to question the ruling elite and the establishment. Unfortunately, the military has maintained near-total control over the country, often dictating political decisions. Politicians are forced to comply with the military’s directives or face removal. The military has entrenched itself not only in the political sphere but also in the economic and civilian sectors, making it incredibly difficult to rein in its power-a situation that now seems almost irreversible. Ideally, the military should be confined to its barracks and border defense, leaving the governance of the nation to democratically elected representatives. However, even elections are often manipulated by the establishment. Most of the ruling elite fear opposing the establishment, let alone criticizing its dominance. This is my assessment. Forums like these are valuable for discussions and raising awareness, but real change will only come when the youth of Pakistan step forward and take action.
This is a great discussion that is worthy of being watched by ALL, not just Pakistanis. Dr. Hoodbhoy's assertions are not only incorrect but needlessly provocative. In every presentation since the Indian elections, he keeps insisting that Modi has lost the elections. The reality is different from his wishes -- Modi is back as P.M. with reduced numbers. One expects precision from a world-renowned Scientist. True, as part of electioneering, he uttered the wishes of the extreme specimens in the R.S.S --- this is unfortunate. He and the Indian people have shown the maturity to correct their bearings. I am sure the Professor understands this. Just last week, the GOI legislated Medical insurance for seniors above 70 years for ALL Indians - regardless of religion or caste. Such things are never mentioned by the Professor. PITY! -- Jay Ravi, Toronto
i just wish long life for pervez hoodbhoy so he can see BJP rule continued he can see Yogi adityanath becoming P.M of INDIA he can see INDIA progressing economically well INDIA already have the diplomatic clout in international politics but he can see growing influence of INDIA and most importantly he can see also what will be happening to pakistan which is easily predictable by Now so i just wish long life for pervez hoodbhoy
A well-organized, and thought procovative debate, it was. The contemporary situation of democratic bodies, and their consistent failures were discussed, too. Questions raises here, when we have solutions of every problem. Then, why there is no policy implementation? We are facing huge economic crisis, political instability, and social insecurity. So far, we are failed in providing protection to our minorities ( though they are equal citizens of Pakistan) and other ethnic groups. Gender equality is further losing its space. We as Nation need to take chance for comprehensive reforms regarding socio- economic to political and cultural issues. With out reforms, it is not possible for Pakistan to move forward. Finally, thanks to The Black hole community for organizing this event.
😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃 Pakistan has been given money 23 times by the IMF to save it from becoming bankrupt. If Pakistan stops wasting money on nuclear weapons, its oversized military and its terror financing program then its economic situation will become better. Now Pakistan will beg for money from Bangladesh..
Having such a discussion, this subject is non existence in pakistan...,.only less than 100 educated crowd.....for God sake, discuss how to create small group of graduates to take classes from 7 to 9 pm on streets to madrassa students, uneducated children in their own location....this is how more educated can be targeted in smaller group between 10 to 20 students in street, living in slums, this is how india educated after 1970s....... democracy can't be discussed in pakistan....can journalists can write the truth in pakistan......next day will be jail or killed in pakistan or foreign countries......where is democracy???????????????
Sorry....but the conclusion an average person across the border arrives at after listening to all the acclaimed prrsonalities is......... "nothing is possible & nothing can or will ever be done to sort out the sick mindset of the majority of Pakistanis, and, the show will go on as it has for the last 77 years". Democracy will always remain a fantasy for your unfortunate hujoom. SAD but TRUE 😢
Mr. Ranjha saying " Na ummeed nahin hona chaahiye because the western democracies took 300 years to mature ? " is laughable. And as much as pakistan doesnt want to confront it, they should try to learn from any islamic countries around them - they are either a monarchy or a dictatorship ( neither is democratic). And likely the only long-term , so called "Islamic' country that has had some level of democracy ( Turkey), has spent it's entire independent history trying to be more modern and more non-islamic and more "European". So, someone should have the courage to draw the inference. No one is saying that Pakistan needs to break - quite frankly, no one is interested anymore as everyone has their own path forward and are working on their futures. Unless Pakistan, moves away from acute islamization , there is no hope for democracy.
فرحت اللہ بابر ہی بھترین رے باقی! اور سب سے درخواست ، پلیز “غیر مسلم” کہنا بند کریں کوئی ھندو ھے، کوئی مسیحی یا احمدی، ان کے نام لیں، وہ غیر مسلم نہیں ھندو، مسیحی، احمدی ہیں، پلیز، آپ بہی وہ کام نہ کریں جس کی شکایت کر رہے ہیں پلیز
پاکستان میں سیاسی پارٹیاں شخصی ہیں جمہوری نہیں۔ سیاسی لیڈر باری باری اقتدار کی خاطر بک جاتے ہیں۔ اقتدار حصول دولت کا ذریعہ ہے نظریاتی نہیں۔ٹریڈ یونین جنرل ضیاء کے زمانے سے مردہ ہے جس دن کالونی ٹیکسٹائل مل میں نہتے اور پر امن ہڑتالی مزدوروں پر بے دریغ فائرنگ ہوئی تھی۔ اس مردہ ماحول میں عدالتوں کے لئے جمہوریت کی حفاظت کرنا نا ممکن ہوتا ہے اسی کو نظریہ ضرورت کہتے ہیں عدالتیں کہتی ہیں سارا ملک اس نظام کو قبول کر چکا ہے تو ہمارے اس کے الٹ فیصلے ناقابل عمل ہوں گے۔
بھٹو صاحب پر کورپشن کا کوئی سنجیدہ الزام تک نہیں تھا۔ اس آئینے کے سامنے آصف علی زرداری کو کھڑا کر کے دیکھیں کیا شکل نظر آئے گی فرحت اللہ بابر جیسے دانشوروں کا سٹینڈرڈ دیکھیں بھٹو کو بھی اپنا لیڈر مانتے ہیں آصف زرداری کو بھی اور اس کی اولاد کو بھی۔
Mohtarma, you wanted to take name of Maryam Nawaz but you spoke the name of Maryam Aurangzeb. Astonished you being from PML N. Anyway, rest of the analysis was good❤
Zubair sb starts his analysis from the facts but culminated on twisting the facts ostensibly having a sting of rage that developed due to being disowned by PML N or he himself left the party on account of not being crowned as used to be in the past when the party came into power.
There are many religions in the World . Would the BLACK HOLE be able to discuss the role of each different Religion on the establishment and success of a DEMOCRACY ?
Big question is Islam is compatible with democracy and secularism. Answer is no. Why see globally 90 percent Islamic nations have no democracy and secularism. See in neighbourhood of India, Afghanistan Pakistan and Bangladesh. Totally failed. Some thing is seriously wrong with religious ideology.
Right. No Islamic state can be a democracy.
Well said sir.
Topic should be state of authoritarian regime in pakistan
Its not democracy in pakistan, its The DaMockery.
Greetings from New Delhi...Everything the lady has spoken makes eminent sense. Thats the way to go.
"No body can hold monopoly to truth and wisdom".. Beautiful sentence 👍👍
To an outsider like me, Pakistan can seem like an overgrown 77-year-old child. Whether Pakistanis agree or not, the country appears to have made little progress in its journey toward becoming a true democracy. Several factors contribute to this, including greed, corruption, exploitation, and the relentless grip on power through any means necessary. There have been deliberate efforts to keep the public uninformed and blind to the realities on the ground. It’s only with the rise of social media that the populace has begun to question the ruling elite and the establishment. Unfortunately, the military has maintained near-total control over the country, often dictating political decisions. Politicians are forced to comply with the military’s directives or face removal. The military has entrenched itself not only in the political sphere but also in the economic and civilian sectors, making it incredibly difficult to rein in its power-a situation that now seems almost irreversible. Ideally, the military should be confined to its barracks and border defense, leaving the governance of the nation to democratically elected representatives. However, even elections are often manipulated by the establishment. Most of the ruling elite fear opposing the establishment, let alone criticizing its dominance.
This is my assessment. Forums like these are valuable for discussions and raising awareness, but real change will only come when the youth of Pakistan step forward and take action.
A society that regularly repeats Poetry , is a people that gets a daily dose of tragedy . Then societal success remains another poem .
For 20% muslims we happily gave 30% land of India in 1947
Democracy in Pakistan? A joke! 🇮🇳
Democracy and Pakistan are poles apart
Beautiful very nice thanks for sharing this video
First step is to amend Constitution to vest sovereignty with the people of Pakistan.
Very happy to the auditorium is full and overflowing.
Democracy has outlived its life.
when did it live in pakistan?
This is a great discussion that is worthy of being watched by ALL, not just Pakistanis. Dr. Hoodbhoy's assertions are not only incorrect but needlessly provocative. In every presentation since the Indian elections, he keeps insisting that Modi has lost the elections. The reality is different from his wishes -- Modi is back as P.M. with reduced numbers. One expects precision from a world-renowned Scientist. True, as part of electioneering, he uttered the wishes of the extreme specimens in the R.S.S --- this is unfortunate. He and the Indian people have shown the maturity to correct their bearings. I am sure the Professor understands this. Just last week, the GOI legislated Medical insurance for seniors above 70 years for ALL Indians - regardless of religion or caste. Such things are never mentioned by the Professor. PITY! -- Jay Ravi, Toronto
i just wish long life for pervez hoodbhoy so he can see BJP rule continued he can see Yogi adityanath becoming P.M of INDIA he can see INDIA progressing economically well INDIA already have the diplomatic clout in international politics but he can see growing influence of INDIA and most importantly he can see also what will be happening to pakistan which is easily predictable by Now so i just wish long life for pervez hoodbhoy
Joke of discussion
Islamic ideology people speaking about democracy i😅😅😅
A well-organized, and thought procovative debate, it was. The contemporary situation of democratic bodies, and their consistent failures were discussed, too. Questions raises here, when we have solutions of every problem. Then, why there is no policy implementation?
We are facing huge economic crisis, political instability, and social insecurity. So far, we are failed in providing protection to our minorities ( though they are equal citizens of Pakistan) and other ethnic groups. Gender equality is further losing its space. We as Nation need to take chance for comprehensive reforms regarding socio- economic to political and cultural issues. With out reforms, it is not possible for Pakistan to move forward.
Finally, thanks to The Black hole community for organizing this event.
😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃
Pakistan has been given money 23 times by the IMF to save it from becoming bankrupt.
If Pakistan stops wasting money on nuclear weapons, its oversized military and its terror financing program then its economic situation will become better.
Now Pakistan will beg for money from Bangladesh..
Pakistan was always stuck between Mullahs and Military. And that saga still continues
The topic itself is laughable.Democracy has been non-existent in Pakistan since 1947.
Good subject.Appreciated from India.
Powerful and opportunist will never allow students unions.
My question is how far Islam and democracy go together ?
Weldone Farhat Ullah Babr sahab..... U are a Gem
Democracy 😅 pakistan 😅
73 constitution declared Ahmedias as non Muslim, by your great liberal hero Bhutto, such stupidity
Jinnah Smiling from hell
Glad to see such a full house, first time.
Generally there's a full house if Syed Muzammil is invited.
How one can attend your session and how one can obtain relevant information.
You can check the description of this channel to get the location of this place, I think it is in islamabad✨✔️
Agar yha Democracy hai to mai bhi Elon Musk hu.
Very nice discussion. Well done TBH
India is poor because of 24 crore illigally Pakistani citizens in India
Pakistan me kitne minority baje hai😂😂😂😂
Bottom line..There is no way forward
Wrong Topic 😂😂😂 State of Theocracy in Pakistan.❤❤❤
Pakistan m sabse jyada sabse pahle sabse baddhia democracy h
M true kah rha hu 😅😅
Results???
Army chief is real boss of pakistan.
Having such a discussion, this subject is non existence in pakistan...,.only less than 100 educated crowd.....for God sake, discuss how to create small group of graduates to take classes from 7 to 9 pm on streets to madrassa students, uneducated children in their own location....this is how more educated can be targeted in smaller group between 10 to 20 students in street, living in slums, this is how india educated after 1970s....... democracy can't be discussed in pakistan....can journalists can write the truth in pakistan......next day will be jail or killed in pakistan or foreign countries......where is democracy???????????????
What a joke state of democracy in pakistan 😂
Sorry....but the conclusion an average person across the border arrives at after listening to all the acclaimed prrsonalities is......... "nothing is possible & nothing can or will ever be done to sort out the sick mindset of the majority of Pakistanis, and, the show will go on as it has for the last 77 years". Democracy will always remain a fantasy for your unfortunate hujoom. SAD but TRUE 😢
Great discussion!
Islam aur democracy ek sath nahi reh sakte.
Mr. Ranjha saying " Na ummeed nahin hona chaahiye because the western democracies took 300 years to mature ? " is laughable. And as much as pakistan doesnt want to confront it, they should try to learn from any islamic countries around them - they are either a monarchy or a dictatorship ( neither is democratic). And likely the only long-term , so called "Islamic' country that has had some level of democracy ( Turkey), has spent it's entire independent history trying to be more modern and more non-islamic and more "European".
So, someone should have the courage to draw the inference. No one is saying that Pakistan needs to break - quite frankly, no one is interested anymore as everyone has their own path forward and are working on their futures. Unless Pakistan, moves away from acute islamization , there is no hope for democracy.
فرحت اللہ بابر ہی بھترین رے
باقی!
اور سب سے درخواست ، پلیز “غیر مسلم” کہنا بند کریں
کوئی ھندو ھے، کوئی مسیحی یا احمدی، ان کے نام لیں، وہ غیر مسلم نہیں ھندو، مسیحی، احمدی ہیں، پلیز، آپ بہی وہ کام نہ کریں جس کی شکایت کر رہے ہیں
پلیز
Farhat Ullah Babar waao
46:00
Joke joke Pakistan .
Plz address it
1:34:33
3:45
1:12:26 behtreen answer diya hai farhat sahib
If one glass is half full, so we can, say it both ways half empty, or half full similarly if Pakistan for muslims, than India not for muslims
Your leader is responsible for this state of affairs,Amna sahiba . Have you ever considered it.
پاکستان میں سیاسی پارٹیاں شخصی ہیں جمہوری نہیں۔ سیاسی لیڈر باری باری اقتدار کی خاطر بک جاتے ہیں۔ اقتدار حصول دولت کا ذریعہ ہے نظریاتی نہیں۔ٹریڈ یونین جنرل ضیاء کے زمانے سے مردہ ہے جس دن کالونی ٹیکسٹائل مل میں نہتے اور پر امن ہڑتالی مزدوروں پر بے دریغ فائرنگ ہوئی تھی۔
اس مردہ ماحول میں عدالتوں کے لئے جمہوریت کی حفاظت کرنا نا ممکن ہوتا ہے اسی کو نظریہ ضرورت کہتے ہیں عدالتیں کہتی ہیں سارا ملک اس نظام کو قبول کر چکا ہے تو ہمارے اس کے الٹ فیصلے ناقابل عمل ہوں گے۔
بھٹو صاحب پر کورپشن کا کوئی سنجیدہ الزام تک نہیں تھا۔ اس آئینے کے سامنے آصف علی زرداری کو کھڑا کر کے دیکھیں کیا شکل نظر آئے گی فرحت اللہ بابر جیسے دانشوروں کا سٹینڈرڈ دیکھیں بھٹو کو بھی اپنا لیڈر مانتے ہیں آصف زرداری کو بھی اور اس کی اولاد کو بھی۔
33:40
Good
Miss Aamna kindly consult history before saying anything. What Europe had achieved after Two hundred years, we got awareness with in two years.
Farhat ullah babar is mature politician.
Nice comedy ... democracy in pakistan 😂😂😂
Mohtarma, you wanted to take name of Maryam Nawaz but you spoke the name of Maryam Aurangzeb. Astonished you being from PML N. Anyway, rest of the analysis was good❤
Zubair sb starts his analysis from the facts but culminated on twisting the facts ostensibly having a sting of rage that developed due to being disowned by PML N or he himself left the party on account of not being crowned as used to be in the past when the party came into power.
There are many religions in the World . Would the BLACK HOLE be able to discuss the role of each different Religion on the establishment and success of a DEMOCRACY ?
Religion and democracy are moving along circle at 180 degrees
Discussion is just Jilebiya with different size Jilebiya 😢😢😂😂
I don’t believe in peaceful ehtajaj …. Ye ek game hai k ap chup kar k aye ehtajaj karen govt ko zara faraq nhe parega or ap chalay jaye
Complete bakwas all these people are doing is patronising Pakistan’s failed government, military hegemony and coward politicians
Gaseous
Hilarious, always talking about democracy but achieving nothing
Bhikharistan 😂😂😂😂
54-6=9= ghapa ghap ghapa ghap 😂😂😂😂
5:50
58:30