re: Sam's qualms about the "outward representation" - I think you're totally right. I feel like it would be more appropriate to call it a "physical representation" than outward. With Joseph Smith taking so much from Masonry, part of my feels like the a large part of the point of garments was to be like 'tee hee we're all in a secret club and no one knows how cool we are!' Hijabs are warn outwardly. Kippah are worn outwardly. A bindi is worn outwardly. I agree with Sam.
Ok I’m not LDS so I’m shooting in the dark lol but the way my mind interpreted the part about “outward representation” regarding the garments is that it is like a physical representation versus just a spiritual representation so that’s the “outward” part. I don’t know the history behind so again maybe I’m just thinking of it differently
Any church who kicks people out or determines the worthiness of others, as well as constantly judging them, does not sound like a healthy or loving religion. If the promise is between you and God, why do others, including gossips, have the right to step in and judge?
The " church" doesn't kick people out. Each person can make choices to stay in the church by participating in Sunday meetings, serving in callings. If someone decides to leave they can. There should be no public judgement, (even though there is). A bishop can determine someone's worthiness in an interview. It is not public unless the person being interviewed makes it public. Church leaders do not public shame anyone. There is judgement towards members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter- day Saints...and their beliefs, so before you judge others about their beliefs, make sure you are not casting judgements.
Sam, based on voice alone, I thought you were Russia until I learned your back story. Southern Utahns have a unique accent, specifically from your area. Keep doing the good work!
Outward and visible sign of an inward and spiritual grace: definition of a Sacrament. I appreciate that Sam made the distinction that it is a private thing, not on display for others. That doesn’t make it less of a “grace” for the person who is a believer. I appreciate how respectful you are of the traditions and faith beliefs of others. (Episcopalian perspective here, with a strong dose of Lutheran). It’s all about grace all of the time!
Underwear recommendations 🙈😅: Don't be afraid of "granny panties." The cotton is super breathable, and the full coverage on the backside prevents VPL (visible panty line). Keywords to look for: full coverage, no ride up. And there are still options on the "rise," for clothing that is low-waisted.
@@jewelgazerVictoria Secret underwear sucks. I highly recommend Parade underwear or Understance underwear. Boyshorts or boybriefs are probably the most comfortable style imo but admittedly can sometimes feel bulky under clothes.
Yess! Parade and Understance have my fave ones. For the parade underwear lots of "influencers" have codes so try and find one to save some $$ if you do end up ordering. I know a lot of "influencer" stuff is overrated but parade undies are worth the hype!
"church approved photo of garments" i love all of your videos but sometimes i think you guys are too nice 😂i understand why you want to remain respectful tho so keep doing you! :)
When I’m out and about and I see a group of well dressed people, I can almost always tell when they are Jehovah’s Witnesses. I was raised JW and I can see them a mile away.
Theyre everywhere in my city, i always see them standing with a display of watchtower pamphlets. I dont mind them though, they tend to just chat amongst themselves and not even hand out the pamphlets lol. My cousin married into it sadly.
I was in college marching band for one season. And I thought I signed up for regular band. I didn't know I'd be marching. We were at Cedar Point. I got on the bus that was heading back early. I didn't want my ex to be left alone that long. And we were changing out of our uniform in the buses. I quickly grabbed my clarinet and got off the bus. I had my garments on.
Another great video! The fact is we no longer live in the 1800's! Seems more of a way to control members than of actually making people feel closer to God. Since leaving the "church" myself I can honestly say I never enjoyed wearing them nor do they help in the self esteem area! I was 32 when I first wore them and I said to myself " what have I done"! The problem is that no one prepares us for the temple and the wearing of the garments. Even after taking all the temple classes. No one really talks about what you are really getting yourself into. Not even your parents or close friends. Too much fear for me. That's the opposite of Christ's teachings.
When you talk about that show it sounds less like the Mormons are judging the actors but more like the people who are fully active in their religion and following their stated beliefs are upset that the actors are portraying their religion to the world incorectly or inaccuratly.
I wonder what happens if there's someone who has a sensory processing disorder or is on the spectrum. Would there be any sort of exception made for that?
Yes and no. There’s a variety of fabrics but other exceptions would depend on advice from your stake President or maybe the bishop. I’ve never heard of any exceptions made and would be curious to know what they were.
Yes, there are special accommodations with fabric and elastic etc. It's not simple to get an accommodation but it is available. I had two friends with an elastic allergy, and they got special garments, custom made.
As a mainstream Christian, I don't understand the idea from the LDS official document that the temple garments represent the veil in the temple and that this veil represents Jesus Christ. The temple veil/curtain showed how our sin caused separation from God the Father, not connection. As the Bible says in Mark 18:37-38: "With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last. The curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom." (NIVUK) Jesus' death tore the veil! His sacrifice on the cross serves to restore us to connection with God by redeeming us from sin. So, as Jesus restored that relationship, how could that veil possibly represent him? I'm not trying to preach a sermon here, but find the whole logic behind temple garments to be confusing and convoluted.
I think even Mormons are confused... saying the veil and garment represent Jesus Christ is a new thing within the last couple of years. I think they were getting pushback that there's not enough Jesus in the Church so they are trying to change that in their own strange way?
I have "bike-shorts" sort of like a mid thigh legging, that I wear when biking that are a) comfy and b) make it less awkward if the wind goes up your skirt. Same thing, just not religious but also "modest". Extremely comfy. Love my bike-shorts
Woxers are longer panties for ladies. There are a lot of things I don’t miss about being an active member but I do miss my garments so much. I always wear a tank top under my clothes and I haven’t worn my garments for nearly 20 yrs.
Being old , I remember when wedding dresses were made to never show shoulders and a higher neckline . It was a sign of being chaste . Modesty was in every religion back in the day .
Underpants with high cut leg holes and bikini waists have more of a tendency to go “wedge” when you are active. Also center seams in boy shorts can cause the same problem. No center seam, regular or slightly low rise waist and regular or boy short length leg holes should help. Only G-d has the right to judge. People who judge others misunderstand our whole purpose.
I’m a traditional leaning Catholic. Some Catholics voluntarily wear something called a scapular under their clothes. It’s kind of like a necklace with cord and two wool pieces (one in front and one in the back). It’s not really a big deal if it ends up peaking out from a shirt collar or something. I have adapted my wardrobe a little bit so I can wear it without that happening too much. As far as skirt length, I like to keep things around the knee.
I can just see Sam walking around Hilldale in shorts and a tshirt showing his whiteness for the community to see!! Just kidding cause I know you were in St George by that time.
@@raineystolp7611 they are not that expensive and I heard the church does not make a lot of money on the sale of garments. They do pay people to sew them, package them, etc.
I was raised RC. There are a lot of weird things done in the Roman Catholic church, transubstantiation and all of that. However, the LDS church surpasses the RC's in weirdness. If a priest ever told me what underwear to wear, I would be seriously weirded out. I am very lapsed these days, but it just seems odds.
Thank you that was very well done. Could you please share the references where Joseph Smith commanded garment? I’ve spent six months looking for any references at all and nothing showed up until 1847 with Brigham Young. This was after Joseph Smith’s death and at the same time, the Masonic lodge was established instead of building the Nauvoo temple; causing the condemnation of the church as related in D&C 84:57. The only reference I have ever seen came from a seamstress who is unknown, but claims that Joseph Smith gave her a drawing or a pattern and asked for red threads to be used on around the collar, and I think the wrists. None of which can be validated. I went through everything again chronologically from before the Kirtland temple, and again nothing comes up until 1847. I would love to see those references. Thank you for what you’re doing.
I'm a lifelong member of the lds church outside of utah, so I feel like some of the judgement stuff happens just because there's such a huge concentration of members there. I think someone's choices can be noticed but not quite as much judged here because we embrace differences a bit more, if that makes sense? I can think of a few people around me who choose not to wear their garments, don't wear them the same as i do, haven't been to the temple for various reasons... and while it's known, nobody in our ward does anything but embrace them regardless of those choices. Not saying we're better out here lol, just a difference in culture because of the numbers i think. I have seen the ads for the show and don't think I'll be watching. I'll enjoy your recaps and reactions of it. I look at it like the rest of the sensationalized reality tv shows that come out, they're just overdoing everything for the sake of entertainment and what they know will draw an audience. I don't think they treat subjects that are sacred for many with the same respect and decency that you guys do here, and that is sad, but it is what it is.
These are all man made. God and Jesus never put a stipulation like these on your relationship with God.. Your actions tell those around you of your relationship with God not you secret underpants!
Great video. At the end of your video, you spoke about how people judge others by their dress/appearance (I am paraphrasing). I grew up in a Wesleyan Holiness denomination church that at one time them emphasis was about your outwardly appearance (length of hair, no beard/mustache, no jewelry, length of your shirt sleeves or dress length) to where it is now. Yes, the emphasis is on dressing modestly, thankfully, we got away from all such legalism. Now, the emphasis is on what your personal relationship with Christ is.
I’m not Mormon and never have been. But I really appreciate your respect for those practicing the faith. Thank you for using pictures and information that is available to everyone, not just those who have been to the temple.
I can just see Sam walking around Hilldale in shorts and a tshirt showing his whiteness for the community to see!! Just kidding cause I know you were in St George by that time.
I did not watch that show, but I’ve seen the pictures of the women and was wondering how they are claiming to be Mormon when clearly the clothes they wear don’t seem to be covering those garments. It seems though that there are countless people that claim a certain religion, but do not embody the rules or guidelines
I'm only five minutes in and my thoughts are... I was raised in salt Lake county in Utah and I'm very familiar with lds culture and everything the religion entails. I've been submerged in it my whole life in so many ways. That being said, my household and extended family weren't any particular religion. My mom always let me just openly explore beliefs, religion, etc. Because of that... I'm particularly aware of tactics involving fear, guilt, and shame because they weren't present in my personal life. What always stands out to me about stricter groups is the fear guilt and shame. Those feelings have largely never served me or my loved ones. I can't help but wonder if, say he exists, God himself would disagree.
Also... Lol@ not supposed to be outright. People flex their JJs 😂 and you can always spot a member by checking their jammie lines. Not a judgement, but to say it's discreet and private isn't authentic. It's a definite status thing that's gently flaunted.
I believe you are not only explaining Mormonism to a wider audience, but also reflecting on it for yourselves. It seems that you have undergone a profound psychological experience and are gradually rationalising it.
Yes, that is what is so amazing about this channel! I love watching Sam and Melissa explore their relationship to the two churches they were raised in, and listening to them make sense of the whole experience.
my sport is swimming, so that would be an issue. there are now more covered suits that can work for serious swim-for-fitness and competition, but then there's the changing room..... and do mormons just not play in pools?
I've been binge watching it all week. I missed choir on Tuesday because I stayed up too late on Monday watching it. OMG, S1E2 they were not wearing garments.
@@michellesunshinestar what if their bishop asked them not to wear them? Just a thought. I don't mind a show about "tiktokmoms". But when the title says "Mormon wives", some would think they are all active members of the church, which would imply being sealed in the temple and faithfully serving in their church ward or stake. I have not seen the trailers of one of the women serving in a calling at church, making and taking a meal to someone, etc. Maybe those are coming. I don't know. This was a great video and done very respectfully. Thanks for always being respectful.❤
Hi! I’m a new follower!! I love your videos/podcasts! I’m always fascinated about customs and religions and I really appreciate you talking about your experiences and reviewing the shows from your perspectives!! Thank you for all you do!!
I follow God’s word. I am not religious but I am spiritual and believe with every fiber of my being. If you abide by the 10 commandments as humanly possible, then you will be blessed by God’s grace.
So insightful as always…❤❤. Melissa, thank you so much for how much personal commentary you present…your thought process always provides me such enlightenment of others in my life and community with strong LDS faith commitments…I am sorry to see how much of a struggle it must have been for you as you went through your faith journey and had to challenge constructs that had made such a strong foundation in your life and continue to be such a strong foundation in the lives of many of your family. That you are willing to share so much publicly in hopes of raising awareness and understanding…I just want you to know how much it is appreciated! Hugs to you and your beautiful family!
Non-wedge underwear recommendation for Melissa: Wama Women's Boyshorts. They're not actually as long as they look in the picture, but they _are_ long enough to cover the whole buttcheck.
I'm a never Mormon and only heard of the Osmonds and Mitt Romney being Mormons. Then when Ricky Schroder had a reality show a few years ago, the garments came up in an episode. That's the first I heard of it sacred garments (or special underwear). Now, with all the RUclips channels like yours, it helps fill in the blanks for me and other never Mormons. I love how you both help to give context to topics/situations without being judgmental. Thank you for your honesty and your perspective.
Melissa! Try seamless underwear that are 70 something % nylon and 20 something % spandex or elastane (I like boy cut or thongs- only in that material though otherwise he’s a wedge!). It’s been 5 years since I left the church/stopped wearing G’s. I liked that I didn’t have to worry about underwear lines when wearing them. I liked the tight fit spandex bottoms with the cap sleeve cotton tops- so if that’s similar to what you used to wear- maybe you’ll like similar underwear haha. I think it’s a VAID question that you asked though. It takes years trying to figure this stuff out!
No one cares if someone is wearing them or not. The person not wearing them and identifying as Mormon and you can tell they are not wearing them cause of the hemlines and whatnot are doing so for the attention. And are getting it. Even negative attention is good for some people. They are making a point of saying they are Mormon and this is fine for Mormons. But is it? I’m Catholic so don’t really care. But I can’t fault the church or actual members calling them out. Cause nonmembers will think there are no clothing restrictions. It’s dishonest.
The juxtaposition between you’re not supposed to talk about them nor should anyone see them && everyone notices them, ppl judge & measure someone’s faithfulness/worthiness off of them is very interesting. First video of yours I’ve seen, it was prob recommended cuz of all the ex-mo & high control group content I watch. Subscribed!!🩷💜💙
The problem with garments is this... Jesus taught to love your neighbor and forgive your enemies. He didn't say anything about what underwear to wear. The garment supplants the teachings of Jesus. It teaches members of the religion that in order to be a good person, you have to wear this specific underwear. So... members do it, because they want to be good people. All the while they are ignoring the true teachings of true Christianity, because they already think that they are righteous. These leaders of all these religions are anti-Christ in that they teach checkbox Christianity. The religious leaders were the exact idol that Jesus fought in Jerusalem. The religious leaders were the ones who crucified Him.
TMI: I joined the church later in life and left it 7 years later. When I was going for my 2nd Temple Recommend the Bishop asked if I was wearing my garments day and night. I told him I didn't wear them at night as I was going through night sweats and they kept me too hot. He was flummoxed, didn't reprimand me, and gave me my recommend.
I am an outsider but I can understand why people would judge so harshly. There are a lot of requirements to get to the temple and keep a recommend- If I were kept out because I were gay, or because my physical intimacy went too far, or I drank coffee, I would be upset that people who didn’t wear their garments received no consequences. I’m sure everyone has their own struggles with certain rules and that’s where animosity comes from.
I feel like the judging goes both ways. I have heard people referring to others as " Molly Mormon " because they wear garments. Either way is bad. No one should judge others. That's a pet peeve I have with religion.
Weirdly, after 50 plus years, I am no longer a believer but I find garments comfortable (a bra on my skin- no bueno) and it would break my true blue husband’s heart if I took them off. At first I had an issue with members thinking I’m a believer and active member, as well as like you, being disrespectful. Now I still wear them but I just think of them as underwear.
The instructions in the temple for how to wear the garments can be really confusing for people. I was instructed that they should be the closest thing to my skin. Everyone of my era would have received that instruction. That leads to a lot of issues about bra on top or under, how to handle menstruation, what about breastfeeding, etc. It was nuts.
After my hysterectomy at 42, I started having hot flashes and found that sleeves of any kind make it worse. Same thing with anything at or above my collar bone so I wear sleeveless shirts year round.
re: "It really depends who taught you/instructed you on how to wear the garments" - This is what killed me when I talked to the missionaries. When I watched your videos, or other videos from Mormon Stories, from Alyssa Grenfell, from Cults to Consciousness - one of the main things I took away from it is that mormon belief, contrary to what the church may want, is very much NOT monolithic. There's a huge diversity of belief even within the mainstream LDS church members about the precise way to practice certain traditions, or even the precise way to interpret the meaning of scripture. And when I said this to the missionaries, they were like "Yeaaaah, there may be some people who are mistaken and doing things wrong, but there is a right and wrong way to do things. You just have to listen to the church leaders." And I'm like "Yeah, but some people hear the church leaders words have different interpretations of those." And essentially they're like, "Well if its not X then they're wrong." Like I know the missionaries are like 18 year old boys and of course they think they know everything. They just went through who knows how long in the MTC being gassed up thinking they know the correct everything. But something about it seems so arrogant. There's a wide diversity in belief in this religion which is millions strong across the world -- but if they're not doing what I think they should be doing they're just flat out wrong. The Muslim population already got over this ages ago. There are Muslim scholars (this is a really high position it takes ages to reach). And they interpret the Qur'an. And you look at different scholars and you pick which one you think has the right interpretation and you follow that scholar. That's why you can have a Muslim woman who wears a hijab (head scarf) but no niqab (face veil). And she's happily friends with a niqabi (woman who does wear a face veil). You might think 'wow they have totally different views on religion, doesn't one think the other is doing it wrong?' But no. They'll just be like 'oh we follow different scholars' and that's it. No arguing. I wish LDS could embrace the diversity of belief within their faith.
Melissa, I always find it funny how we say “taking off our garments “ when we really are saying that we quit wearing them. That could be an entire episode right there!
For the last 20 years or so I have had a hard time finding underwear that fit right. They’re made so cheap now. Are used to pick up underwear for a dollar a pair. Try to find a wide crotch and elastic in the legs.
This is very interesting. Me only seeing the polygamy side of things this is something that I didn’t know about. Thank you for shedding light on this. For me someone that never has been a Mormon I like learning about different things I grew up in a nondenominational church and that was the dramatizing it’s self and I am no longer believe in a god or anything
i appreciate how much Melissa pointed out the judgement part or this. i am ex jw but this feels familiar to me because i was raised with JW clothing standards, i can recognize jw from "wordly people" by how they dress. Now that Jw men can wear beards i throws off my internal judgeing I have left over from Jw programing.
Many LDS members enjoy snitching on each other when it comes to garment wearing and especially the Word of Wisdom - getting “caught” in Starbucks is a big no no.
Now I understand a little more about what these Mormon women face. So many exmo women make it a point to wear tanks? spaghetti steps, and tube tops when they are on podcasts talking about Mormonism. I never noticed it until I saw this happening in the winter months. Who wears tube tops in the winter? It’s so odd but I guess it just shows how badly oppressed these women felt while in the church.
Omg the Disneyland comment. I was just there a couple days ago and totally noticed several ppl who were wearing garments. Like seriously can't turn it off. Knee Length shorts and a downeast tee is a dead giveaway and then seeing the garment lines...my nevermo bf was like how can u tell?...when I was like there's a mormon. Haha. And I was one of the rare ones that liked the garments. I thought they were comfortable, compressive an prevented chafing. Lol. But it would've been nice to have more leeway in chosing not to wear them with a certain outfit. Like I thought I'd get in a Car wreck based on not wearing them 🤯
Yes that indoctrination from the leaders that the garment protects you from harm so heaven forbid you get in an auto accident. It’s all about control, isn’t it?
@@valerieodonnell6764 You are so lucky!! My sister in law was constantly adjusting her garments because she was so uncomfortable and also worrying about if her sleeve was showing. It was really hard to see her struggling in this way.
@@Alice-zj6lp Thank. Recently visited a newly built temple with LDS friends (beautiful), and I wondered too. Are the temple dresses a different thing? Worn together?
@@teena4rl211 temple dresses are just the clothes that you wear when you go inside the temple. You go to the temple in nice clothes, but then they have a locker room where you can change into your white dress and then you can go and do whatever activity you feel like at the temple. Garments are worn underneath your clothes in place of other underwear.
@jenniferwallace8161 Thank you for clarifying. The brides' room was beautiful. I loved the mirrors on each side of the marriage altar. It was really an amazing experience.
Okay, here's a question: so, I have a question about laundering your garments. I'm asking because for a while, I was doing laundry for the whole family, and my mom would keep her garments out and wash them in a separate load, but if she were doing the laundry, she would wash them with the other whites. She said something about not wanting someone who wasn't endowed to wash them. Has anyone else ever heard of that?
Lifelong member here, I've never heard of that. Some people prefer to wash them separately, but that's just a personal preference. There's no rule about WHO washes them.
My mother did not want the garments to touch the ground and she always wash them separately. When I was caring for my folks in their last days I did all their laundry and I would do a little silly curse removal to try and remove the curse of all those symbols on the garments... my mom would die if she wasn't already if she knew that. She's dead and knows better now
@@ajensen366 the symbols on the garments have a couple of different meanings. One of them is that they are a similar shape to the Hebrew letters for Yahweh (Jehovah). No need to do a curse removal for them.
Much as I love you guys on this channel, I do not love the new ominous music. And I don't love the overdramatic intros. I say this with absolutely no hate- love your channel and appreciate the advocacy work that you guys do. But, I don't want videos on your channel to have an intro like a reality TV show.
re: Sam's qualms about the "outward representation" - I think you're totally right. I feel like it would be more appropriate to call it a "physical representation" than outward. With Joseph Smith taking so much from Masonry, part of my feels like the a large part of the point of garments was to be like 'tee hee we're all in a secret club and no one knows how cool we are!' Hijabs are warn outwardly. Kippah are worn outwardly. A bindi is worn outwardly. I agree with Sam.
Originally, garments were only worn in the temple, that changed after Brigham had Joseph killed 😈
Ok I’m not LDS so I’m shooting in the dark lol but the way my mind interpreted the part about “outward representation” regarding the garments is that it is like a physical representation versus just a spiritual representation so that’s the “outward” part. I don’t know the history behind so again maybe I’m just thinking of it differently
Any church who kicks people out or determines the worthiness of others, as well as constantly judging them, does not sound like a healthy or loving religion. If the promise is between you and God, why do others, including gossips, have the right to step in and judge?
Yes. Sounds like a "reason" for cattiness.
The " church" doesn't kick people out. Each person can make choices to stay in the church by participating in Sunday meetings, serving in callings. If someone decides to leave they can. There should be no public judgement, (even though there is). A bishop can determine someone's worthiness in an interview. It is not public unless the person being interviewed makes it public. Church leaders do not public shame anyone.
There is judgement towards members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter- day Saints...and their beliefs, so before you judge others about their beliefs, make sure you are not casting judgements.
@@betsybabf748 There are consequences to sin. The devil was kicked out of heaven. Read the scriptures!
@@MsCrazymomof3 Actually the church has removed membership.
@@tucuxi70 not without a church court.
Got a chuckle from Sam's Starbucks - Swig comment!
Sam has a great narration voice.
Sam, based on voice alone, I thought you were Russia until I learned your back story. Southern Utahns have a unique accent, specifically from your area. Keep doing the good work!
3:49 😊
Outward and visible sign of an inward and spiritual grace: definition of a Sacrament. I appreciate that Sam made the distinction that it is a private thing, not on display for others. That doesn’t make it less of a “grace” for the person who is a believer. I appreciate how respectful you are of the traditions and faith beliefs of others. (Episcopalian perspective here, with a strong dose of Lutheran). It’s all about grace all of the time!
Underwear recommendations 🙈😅: Don't be afraid of "granny panties." The cotton is super breathable, and the full coverage on the backside prevents VPL (visible panty line). Keywords to look for: full coverage, no ride up. And there are still options on the "rise," for clothing that is low-waisted.
But hey, Victoria’s Secret should be your go to Melissa! 😉
@@jewelgazerVictoria Secret underwear sucks.
I highly recommend Parade underwear or Understance underwear. Boyshorts or boybriefs are probably the most comfortable style imo but admittedly can sometimes feel bulky under clothes.
Boy shorts, Melissa. 100% cotton boy shorts. Very comfy women's underpants.
My favorite are the Harper Wilde ones specifically.
Yess! Parade and Understance have my fave ones.
For the parade underwear lots of "influencers" have codes so try and find one to save some $$ if you do end up ordering. I know a lot of "influencer" stuff is overrated but parade undies are worth the hype!
I am no longer a practicing member of the church, but I still appreciate the respect you both show on these sensitive subjects. Thank you
😊
You two are so respectful and thoughtful in how you speak about anything controversial in your videos. I am so impressed and commend you for it.
Thanks for the history and background on Mormon undergarments
Another wonderful video.
Thank you!
Posted a long comment and then watched entire video. You’ve caused me to ponder and review my opinions. Thank you!
"church approved photo of garments" i love all of your videos but sometimes i think you guys are too nice 😂i understand why you want to remain respectful tho so keep doing you! :)
maybe because they're still mormon of their own variety.
@@jenericstewart they arent mormon but have family who still are.
When I’m out and about and I see a group of well dressed people, I can almost always tell when they are Jehovah’s Witnesses. I was raised JW and I can see them a mile away.
Theyre everywhere in my city, i always see them standing with a display of watchtower pamphlets. I dont mind them though, they tend to just chat amongst themselves and not even hand out the pamphlets lol. My cousin married into it sadly.
Ms. Melissa, I'm 5'1. And my legs are really short. I still have the problem with shorts being too short. So, I always wear long pants.
I was in college marching band for one season. And I thought I signed up for regular band. I didn't know I'd be marching. We were at Cedar Point. I got on the bus that was heading back early. I didn't want my ex to be left alone that long. And we were changing out of our uniform in the buses. I quickly grabbed my clarinet and got off the bus. I had my garments on.
Ok Melissa I LOVE this underwear and have been too embarrassed to share but since you asked WIRARPA high waisted cotton
Briefs
Another great video! The fact is we no longer live in the 1800's! Seems more of a way to control members than of actually making people feel closer to God. Since leaving the "church" myself I can honestly say I never enjoyed wearing them nor do they help in the self esteem area! I was 32 when I first wore them and I said to myself " what have I done"! The problem is that no one prepares us for the temple and the wearing of the garments. Even after taking all the temple classes. No one really talks about what you are really getting yourself into. Not even your parents or close friends. Too much fear for me. That's the opposite of Christ's teachings.
When you talk about that show it sounds less like the Mormons are judging the actors but more like the people who are fully active in their religion and following their stated beliefs are upset that the actors are portraying their religion to the world incorectly or inaccuratly.
They are not actors. It’s reality tv
I wonder what happens if there's someone who has a sensory processing disorder or is on the spectrum. Would there be any sort of exception made for that?
Yes. There are a variety of fabrics and occasionally you can order a special fabric.
Yes and no. There’s a variety of fabrics but other exceptions would depend on advice from your stake President or maybe the bishop. I’ve never heard of any exceptions made and would be curious to know what they were.
Yes, there are special accommodations with fabric and elastic etc. It's not simple to get an accommodation but it is available. I had two friends with an elastic allergy, and they got special garments, custom made.
As a mainstream Christian, I don't understand the idea from the LDS official document that the temple garments represent the veil in the temple and that this veil represents Jesus Christ. The temple veil/curtain showed how our sin caused separation from God the Father, not connection. As the Bible says in Mark 18:37-38: "With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last. The curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom." (NIVUK) Jesus' death tore the veil! His sacrifice on the cross serves to restore us to connection with God by redeeming us from sin. So, as Jesus restored that relationship, how could that veil possibly represent him? I'm not trying to preach a sermon here, but find the whole logic behind temple garments to be confusing and convoluted.
It's okay if you don't believe it. No one is forcing you. To each their own.
I think even Mormons are confused... saying the veil and garment represent Jesus Christ is a new thing within the last couple of years. I think they were getting pushback that there's not enough Jesus in the Church so they are trying to change that in their own strange way?
"boy short" style underwear are my fav! 😅
My grandma's knickers were as big as the LDS bottom half. That was only 20 years ago!
I have "bike-shorts" sort of like a mid thigh legging, that I wear when biking that are a) comfy and b) make it less awkward if the wind goes up your skirt.
Same thing, just not religious but also "modest".
Extremely comfy.
Love my bike-shorts
I’m so glad I’m out now! Garments in Arizona in the summer was INSANE and sticky! I don’t miss them at all.
Long underwear was the norm 200 years ago for men, women, and children. Women didn't have bras but corsets over long underwear.
Woxers are longer panties for ladies. There are a lot of things I don’t miss about being an active member but I do miss my garments so much. I always wear a tank top under my clothes and I haven’t worn my garments for nearly 20 yrs.
Being old , I remember when wedding dresses were made to never show shoulders and a higher neckline . It was a sign of being chaste . Modesty was in every religion back in the day .
Underwear recommend, women's boxer briefs! Lover them under lose garments makes you feel completely covered.
Underpants with high cut leg holes and bikini waists have more of a tendency to go “wedge” when you are active. Also center seams in boy shorts can cause the same problem. No center seam, regular or slightly low rise waist and regular or boy short length leg holes should help. Only G-d has the right to judge. People who judge others misunderstand our whole purpose.
I’m a traditional leaning Catholic. Some Catholics voluntarily wear something called a scapular under their clothes. It’s kind of like a necklace with cord and two wool pieces (one in front and one in the back). It’s not really a big deal if it ends up peaking out from a shirt collar or something. I have adapted my wardrobe a little bit so I can wear it without that happening too much. As far as skirt length, I like to keep things around the knee.
I can just see Sam walking around Hilldale in shorts and a tshirt showing his whiteness for the community to see!! Just kidding cause I know you were in St George by that time.
Ever think about how much revenue the LDS Church generates from their sale of garments?
They are actually heavily subsidized by the church.
@@raineystolp7611 they are not that expensive and I heard the church does not make a lot of money on the sale of garments. They do pay people to sew them, package them, etc.
There is no profit made from them. They are sold at the cost of fabric and paying workers to sew and package them.
I was raised RC. There are a lot of weird things done in the Roman Catholic church, transubstantiation and all of that. However, the LDS church surpasses the RC's in weirdness. If a priest ever told me what underwear to wear, I would be seriously weirded out.
I am very lapsed these days, but it just seems odds.
Thank you that was very well done. Could you please share the references where Joseph Smith commanded garment? I’ve spent six months looking for any references at all and nothing showed up until 1847 with Brigham Young. This was after Joseph Smith’s death and at the same time, the Masonic lodge was established instead of building the Nauvoo temple; causing the condemnation of the church as related in D&C 84:57. The only reference I have ever seen came from a seamstress who is unknown, but claims that Joseph Smith gave her a drawing or a pattern and asked for red threads to be used on around the collar, and I think the wrists. None of which can be validated. I went through everything again chronologically from before the Kirtland temple, and again nothing comes up until 1847. I would love to see those references. Thank you for what you’re doing.
I’m just so impressed with the thoughtfulness of you two, and the respect you show. Your channel is so satisfying.
I'm a lifelong member of the lds church outside of utah, so I feel like some of the judgement stuff happens just because there's such a huge concentration of members there. I think someone's choices can be noticed but not quite as much judged here because we embrace differences a bit more, if that makes sense? I can think of a few people around me who choose not to wear their garments, don't wear them the same as i do, haven't been to the temple for various reasons... and while it's known, nobody in our ward does anything but embrace them regardless of those choices. Not saying we're better out here lol, just a difference in culture because of the numbers i think. I have seen the ads for the show and don't think I'll be watching. I'll enjoy your recaps and reactions of it. I look at it like the rest of the sensationalized reality tv shows that come out, they're just overdoing everything for the sake of entertainment and what they know will draw an audience. I don't think they treat subjects that are sacred for many with the same respect and decency that you guys do here, and that is sad, but it is what it is.
These are all man made. God and Jesus never put a stipulation like these on your relationship with God.. Your actions tell those around you of your relationship with God not you secret underpants!
Never was LDS, but I got maternity underwear (with the wide band at the top) when I was pregnant and never switched back. I love it so much.
Great video. At the end of your video, you spoke about how people judge others by their dress/appearance (I am paraphrasing). I grew up in a Wesleyan Holiness denomination church that at one time them emphasis was about your outwardly appearance (length of hair, no beard/mustache, no jewelry, length of your shirt sleeves or dress length) to where it is now. Yes, the emphasis is on dressing modestly, thankfully, we got away from all such legalism. Now, the emphasis is on what your personal relationship with Christ is.
I’m not Mormon and never have been. But I really appreciate your respect for those practicing the faith. Thank you for using pictures and information that is available to everyone, not just those who have been to the temple.
My family did the three s rule for garments. Sex, swimming, sports.
I can just see Sam walking around Hilldale in shorts and a tshirt showing his whiteness for the community to see!! Just kidding cause I know you were in St George by that time.
I did not watch that show, but I’ve seen the pictures of the women and was wondering how they are claiming to be Mormon when clearly the clothes they wear don’t seem to be covering those garments. It seems though that there are countless people that claim a certain religion, but do not embody the rules or guidelines
What about the early sister wives seasons where they are wearing long sleeved garments but short sleeves over it? So you can see the garment sleeves
I'm only five minutes in and my thoughts are... I was raised in salt Lake county in Utah and I'm very familiar with lds culture and everything the religion entails. I've been submerged in it my whole life in so many ways. That being said, my household and extended family weren't any particular religion. My mom always let me just openly explore beliefs, religion, etc. Because of that... I'm particularly aware of tactics involving fear, guilt, and shame because they weren't present in my personal life. What always stands out to me about stricter groups is the fear guilt and shame. Those feelings have largely never served me or my loved ones. I can't help but wonder if, say he exists, God himself would disagree.
Also... Lol@ not supposed to be outright. People flex their JJs 😂 and you can always spot a member by checking their jammie lines. Not a judgement, but to say it's discreet and private isn't authentic. It's a definite status thing that's gently flaunted.
I have sensory issues with clothing materials, such as wool or anything scratchy. How do members of the LDS address such problems?
A variety of fabrics are offered. So far I have never seen wool garments.😅
I believe you are not only explaining Mormonism to a wider audience, but also reflecting on it for yourselves. It seems that you have undergone a profound psychological experience and are gradually rationalising it.
Yes, that is what is so amazing about this channel! I love watching Sam and Melissa explore their relationship to the two churches they were raised in, and listening to them make sense of the whole experience.
my sport is swimming, so that would be an issue. there are now more covered suits that can work for serious swim-for-fitness and competition, but then there's the changing room..... and do mormons just not play in pools?
You don’t have to wear them for the 3 S’s: sex, sports or showers. Swimming would fall into sports. 🙂
You explained it well
Melissa - hiphuggers from Aerie! They are so comfy!
I love the briefs. Such comfortable fabric
I've been binge watching it all week. I missed choir on Tuesday because I stayed up too late on Monday watching it. OMG, S1E2 they were not wearing garments.
@@michellesunshinestar what if their bishop asked them not to wear them? Just a thought.
I don't mind a show about "tiktokmoms". But when the title says "Mormon wives", some would think they are all active members of the church, which would imply being sealed in the temple and faithfully serving in their church ward or stake. I have not seen the trailers of one of the women serving in a calling at church, making and taking a meal to someone, etc. Maybe those are coming. I don't know.
This was a great video and done very respectfully. Thanks for always being respectful.❤
@@MsCrazymomof3 I agree with you 100%
Found you from Peter’s channel. Great job. Thanks for sharing your experience with us.
Try Hanes hipsters, 100% cotton. Been wearing them for 30 years, very comfortable. No wedges. Comes in colors & patterns or solid colors.
Hi! I’m a new follower!! I love your videos/podcasts! I’m always fascinated about customs and religions and I really appreciate you talking about your experiences and reviewing the shows from your perspectives!! Thank you for all you do!!
I follow God’s word. I am not religious but I am spiritual and believe with every fiber of my being. If you abide by the 10 commandments as humanly possible, then you will be blessed by God’s grace.
So insightful as always…❤❤. Melissa, thank you so much for how much personal commentary you present…your thought process always provides me such enlightenment of others in my life and community with strong LDS faith commitments…I am sorry to see how much of a struggle it must have been for you as you went through your faith journey and had to challenge constructs that had made such a strong foundation in your life and continue to be such a strong foundation in the lives of many of your family. That you are willing to share so much publicly in hopes of raising awareness and understanding…I just want you to know how much it is appreciated! Hugs to you and your beautiful family!
Non-wedge underwear recommendation for Melissa: Wama Women's Boyshorts. They're not actually as long as they look in the picture, but they _are_ long enough to cover the whole buttcheck.
There is a brand called "me undies" and supposedly, they are exra comfortable underwear and seamless
A number of BYU athletics uniforms and swim suits clearly are not made for garments. And surely there are athletes who have been through the Temple.
I'm a never Mormon and only heard of the Osmonds and Mitt Romney being Mormons. Then when Ricky Schroder had a reality show a few years ago, the garments came up in an episode. That's the first I heard of it sacred garments (or special underwear). Now, with all the RUclips channels like yours, it helps fill in the blanks for me and other never Mormons. I love how you both help to give context to topics/situations without being judgmental. Thank you for your honesty and your perspective.
They gave permission for soft drinks definitively.
Melissa! Try seamless underwear that are 70 something % nylon and 20 something % spandex or elastane (I like boy cut or thongs- only in that material though otherwise he’s a wedge!). It’s been 5 years since I left the church/stopped wearing G’s. I liked that I didn’t have to worry about underwear lines when wearing them. I liked the tight fit spandex bottoms with the cap sleeve cotton tops- so if that’s similar to what you used to wear- maybe you’ll like similar underwear haha. I think it’s a VAID question that you asked though. It takes years trying to figure this stuff out!
No one cares if someone is wearing them or not. The person not wearing them and identifying as Mormon and you can tell they are not wearing them cause of the hemlines and whatnot are doing so for the attention. And are getting it. Even negative attention is good for some people. They are making a point of saying they are Mormon and this is fine for Mormons. But is it? I’m Catholic so don’t really care. But I can’t fault the church or actual members calling them out. Cause nonmembers will think there are no clothing restrictions. It’s dishonest.
@Melissa Aerie Cotton No Shows! Not having the seams on the edges of underwear is amazing. They release different patterns seasonally too.
Religion free. I took a nap today and will watch this video later....from the Ozarks child free
The juxtaposition between you’re not supposed to talk about them nor should anyone see them && everyone notices them, ppl judge & measure someone’s faithfulness/worthiness off of them is very interesting. First video of yours I’ve seen, it was prob recommended cuz of all the ex-mo & high control group content I watch. Subscribed!!🩷💜💙
The problem with garments is this... Jesus taught to love your neighbor and forgive your enemies. He didn't say anything about what underwear to wear. The garment supplants the teachings of Jesus. It teaches members of the religion that in order to be a good person, you have to wear this specific underwear. So... members do it, because they want to be good people. All the while they are ignoring the true teachings of true Christianity, because they already think that they are righteous. These leaders of all these religions are anti-Christ in that they teach checkbox Christianity. The religious leaders were the exact idol that Jesus fought in Jerusalem. The religious leaders were the ones who crucified Him.
I dont think God worries about undergarments, he has better things to do
TMI: I joined the church later in life and left it 7 years later. When I was going for my 2nd Temple Recommend the Bishop asked if I was wearing my garments day and night. I told him I didn't wear them at night as I was going through night sweats and they kept me too hot. He was flummoxed, didn't reprimand me, and gave me my recommend.
I am an outsider but I can understand why people would judge so harshly. There are a lot of requirements to get to the temple and keep a recommend- If I were kept out because I were gay, or because my physical intimacy went too far, or I drank coffee, I would be upset that people who didn’t wear their garments received no consequences. I’m sure everyone has their own struggles with certain rules and that’s where animosity comes from.
I feel like the judging goes both ways. I have heard people referring to others as " Molly Mormon " because they wear garments. Either way is bad. No one should judge others. That's a pet peeve I have with religion.
🦋🦋🦋
Weirdly, after 50 plus years, I am no longer a believer but I find garments comfortable (a bra on my skin- no bueno) and it would break my true blue husband’s heart if I took them off. At first I had an issue with members thinking I’m a believer and active member, as well as like you, being disrespectful. Now I still wear them but I just think of them as underwear.
Try the Woxer brand underwear. There are lots of size variety depending on how long you like to wear them.
Thank you for such an open and honest video. So very interesting, and Melissa you rock that tank top!
Sam, what you said about running around all day in exercise clothes and modest clothing reminds me of a few Mormon family vloggers.
The instructions in the temple for how to wear the garments can be really confusing for people. I was instructed that they should be the closest thing to my skin. Everyone of my era would have received that instruction. That leads to a lot of issues about bra on top or under, how to handle menstruation, what about breastfeeding, etc. It was nuts.
❤
After my hysterectomy at 42, I started having hot flashes and found that sleeves of any kind make it worse. Same thing with anything at or above my collar bone so I wear sleeveless shirts year round.
re: "It really depends who taught you/instructed you on how to wear the garments" - This is what killed me when I talked to the missionaries. When I watched your videos, or other videos from Mormon Stories, from Alyssa Grenfell, from Cults to Consciousness - one of the main things I took away from it is that mormon belief, contrary to what the church may want, is very much NOT monolithic.
There's a huge diversity of belief even within the mainstream LDS church members about the precise way to practice certain traditions, or even the precise way to interpret the meaning of scripture. And when I said this to the missionaries, they were like "Yeaaaah, there may be some people who are mistaken and doing things wrong, but there is a right and wrong way to do things. You just have to listen to the church leaders." And I'm like "Yeah, but some people hear the church leaders words have different interpretations of those." And essentially they're like, "Well if its not X then they're wrong."
Like I know the missionaries are like 18 year old boys and of course they think they know everything. They just went through who knows how long in the MTC being gassed up thinking they know the correct everything. But something about it seems so arrogant. There's a wide diversity in belief in this religion which is millions strong across the world -- but if they're not doing what I think they should be doing they're just flat out wrong.
The Muslim population already got over this ages ago. There are Muslim scholars (this is a really high position it takes ages to reach). And they interpret the Qur'an. And you look at different scholars and you pick which one you think has the right interpretation and you follow that scholar.
That's why you can have a Muslim woman who wears a hijab (head scarf) but no niqab (face veil). And she's happily friends with a niqabi (woman who does wear a face veil). You might think 'wow they have totally different views on religion, doesn't one think the other is doing it wrong?' But no. They'll just be like 'oh we follow different scholars' and that's it. No arguing. I wish LDS could embrace the diversity of belief within their faith.
Melissa, I always find it funny how we say “taking off our garments “ when we really are saying that we quit wearing them. That could be an entire episode right there!
For the last 20 years or so I have had a hard time finding underwear that fit right. They’re made so cheap now. Are used to pick up underwear for a dollar a pair. Try to find a wide crotch and elastic in the legs.
If you get married in the temple and your spouse dies or you get divorced are you still required to wear your garments?
I am not Mormon but no, I don't think it is up to anyone to judge another for wearing certain garments or not.
Check out step one. They have ones for females now.
This is very interesting. Me only seeing the polygamy side of things this is something that I didn’t know about. Thank you for shedding light on this. For me someone that never has been a Mormon I like learning about different things I grew up in a nondenominational church and that was the dramatizing it’s self and I am no longer believe in a god or anything
Really not a big deal you are sleeveless as you are not a member anymore.
No one has the moral authority to judge another person.
Are you mormon now?
No judgment. We have a missionary family in Utah. Enjoy watching vlogs
A Christian missionary
You look beautiful in your tank top!
i appreciate how much Melissa pointed out the judgement part or this. i am ex jw but this feels familiar to me because i was raised with JW clothing standards, i can recognize jw from "wordly people" by how they dress. Now that Jw men can wear beards i throws off my internal judgeing I have left over from Jw programing.
jw woman can now wear pants to church that is new they changed it this years. that is so "wordly" lol
Thank you for these educational videos, I really appreciate it. I’m learning a lot. ❤
You are so welcome!
I believe they're hipocrits
Outward is outside your body. Not outside your regular clothing.
@@annewandering outward expression of an inward commitment. Not wearing so people can see but the person wearing them can feel them as a reminder.
Many LDS members enjoy snitching on each other when it comes to garment wearing and especially the Word of Wisdom - getting “caught” in Starbucks is a big no no.
Maybe a silly question, but how many garments do you get? Are they given to you, or do you purchase them?
Are you kidding the church is not paying for some thing you can buy yourselves. You buy them and you buy plenty. It's all a racket
They are subsidized by the church about 50%. But I still find them pricey compared to what I can buy at Walmart.
Quit wearing mine about three years ago and I still haven’t changed much about what I am wearing. Guess I should get brave!
Now I understand a little more about what these Mormon women face. So many exmo women make it a point to wear tanks? spaghetti steps, and tube tops when they are on podcasts talking about Mormonism. I never noticed it until I saw this happening in the winter months. Who wears tube tops in the winter? It’s so odd but I guess it just shows how badly oppressed these women felt while in the church.
@@jewelgazer bingo
Excellent new intro.
Thank you! 😊
Omg the Disneyland comment. I was just there a couple days ago and totally noticed several ppl who were wearing garments. Like seriously can't turn it off. Knee Length shorts and a downeast tee is a dead giveaway and then seeing the garment lines...my nevermo bf was like how can u tell?...when I was like there's a mormon. Haha. And I was one of the rare ones that liked the garments. I thought they were comfortable, compressive an prevented chafing. Lol. But it would've been nice to have more leeway in chosing not to wear them with a certain outfit. Like I thought I'd get in a Car wreck based on not wearing them 🤯
Yes that indoctrination from the leaders that the garment protects you from harm so heaven forbid you get in an auto accident. It’s all about control, isn’t it?
I feel like I’m in the minority because I liked wearing garments. Anti-chaffing was the best part.
@@valerieodonnell6764 You are so lucky!! My sister in law was constantly adjusting her garments because she was so uncomfortable and also worrying about if her sleeve was showing. It was really hard to see her struggling in this way.
If you are supposed to wear them day and night how do you wash them? Obviously they need washing.
You have a million pairs jammed in your closet. 😊
@@Alice-zj6lp Thank. Recently visited a newly built temple with LDS friends (beautiful), and I wondered too. Are the temple dresses a different thing? Worn together?
It’s just like the regular underwear you wear. You change it after showering or whenever you feel like it.
@@teena4rl211 temple dresses are just the clothes that you wear when you go inside the temple. You go to the temple in nice clothes, but then they have a locker room where you can change into your white dress and then you can go and do whatever activity you feel like at the temple. Garments are worn underneath your clothes in place of other underwear.
@jenniferwallace8161 Thank you for clarifying. The brides' room was beautiful. I loved the mirrors on each side of the marriage altar. It was really an amazing experience.
Okay, here's a question: so, I have a question about laundering your garments. I'm asking because for a while, I was doing laundry for the whole family, and my mom would keep her garments out and wash them in a separate load, but if she were doing the laundry, she would wash them with the other whites. She said something about not wanting someone who wasn't endowed to wash them. Has anyone else ever heard of that?
Lifelong member here, I've never heard of that. Some people prefer to wash them separately, but that's just a personal preference. There's no rule about WHO washes them.
My mother did not want the garments to touch the ground and she always wash them separately. When I was caring for my folks in their last days I did all their laundry and I would do a little silly curse removal to try and remove the curse of all those symbols on the garments... my mom would die if she wasn't already if she knew that. She's dead and knows better now
K9th@@ajensen366
If it was me. I just wouldn’t want somebody else touching my underwear. But maybe for her it was a different reason.
@@ajensen366 the symbols on the garments have a couple of different meanings. One of them is that they are a similar shape to the Hebrew letters for Yahweh (Jehovah). No need to do a curse removal for them.
Much as I love you guys on this channel, I do not love the new ominous music. And I don't love the overdramatic intros.
I say this with absolutely no hate- love your channel and appreciate the advocacy work that you guys do. But, I don't want videos on your channel to have an intro like a reality TV show.