A Dream of Spring will be released when the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, when the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. Or after Half-Life 3 comes out. Whichever happens first.
That could all happen in Winds - Dany's "sun" rises in the West (Westeros) while it "sets" in the East as Mereen falls apart. The sea that goes dry is the Dothraki sea - turning to ghost grass - and the ocean waves look like mountains - or maybe clouds that look like mountains - seem to blow in the wind, or there is volcanic activity activity that rearranges mountains.
I really believe that he is working on both books. Winds will be done in 24 and Dreams not much later. He is just making sure that every single detail is perfect. I’m probably way off but I can still dream.
Even if GRRM lived to 120 I wouldn't expect him to finish. After finishing A Storm of Swords he was supposed to have 2 books left (A Dance With Dragons & The Winds of Winter). More than 20 years on from then and after publishing 2 more books (the most recent one over a decade ago)... he's still got 2 books left.
He has consistently lied about the release of the book for over a decade now. He also just started a new spinoff with HBO, based on the unfinished Dunk & Egg stories... can't make this shit up. Winds of Winter might happen, Spring would have to be written by another author, 0 change GRRM will do it.
Your comment brings me back to a decade ago when I first thought to myself, "does he really need two more books after Feast/Dance?" Because the story progresses so much through the "middle act" Storm, I couldn't believe how much changed in that book, and then it slows down through 4/5, then I can only see one more build before it's over. Else it'll get repetitive and time wasting. I genuinely thought back then before the TV show showed how that you can actually wrap up all the major plot lines in just one more bigger book. Slavers Bay should be quick, then after that all there is is for Dany to go west. The Battle of Winterfell should be early on too, then it's all about the Long Night. And everything in the middle of that fire and ice can flow well within 1,000 pages imo. Especially because so many character arcs are just overstaying. Young Griff, Dorne, the Vale, Riverlands, Arya and Bran, the Greyjoy uncles, etc. don't need two more books. And those that have had 30, 40 etc pov chapters don't need all that many more either. I don't think I can think any different now that that weak show is over and the waiting game is back.
@@longmist6508 i got a bridge to sell you... You just described exactly what con man do, they lie and hide behind excuses Its just today, people love their excuses, so "inser label here"ism is why i cant do anything! LEAVE ME WATCHING NETFLIX & MASTRUBATING! MY LIFE HAS MEANING! Yea right.
I do feel bad about thinking about these things and I do hope that George lives a long and prosperous life and is able to finish the work he sets out to do but we already have examples like Robert Jordan, Terry Pracchet, Kentaro Miura and Frank Herbert to name a few who passed on before they finish their work and some of whom were younger than George so unfortunately these are questions that you need to be asked.
@@realhillkell I agree that it's often distasteful, but this is about finishing the _books_ - plural. That the next one will take less time is still just wishful thinking at this point. We've heard that before with this series.
Hes 74 and drinks nothing but coke, having a discussion about the chances of him dying before finishing the series definitely isnt disrespectful, its just being realistic.
GRRM has become a cottage industry, with a roomful of assistants in his office, his phones ringing, meetings with various show producers and writers, just a constant string of interruptions and distractions.
We need to clone at least ten GRRMs. Five to work on the books (one for each of the main characters), the others to handle all the PR, showbusiness and conventions!
And honestly not even him might be sure. It might take more time than he intended, or he might rewrite a lot, or other projects could get in the way more than they are getting in the way now so nobody truly knows.
George has enough money to hire a team of writers to help him write A Dream of Spring. He could have a writer's brainstorming session and then assign 20 or so writers to produce one or two draft chapters each. George can then edit the draft, write the bits he wants to write, and get it done in one to two years.
If George does sadly pass away before the series is finished, it should be passed over to Patrick Rothfuss. I can’t think of anyone better to not finish the series.
2011: I'll be done in 2014. 2015: Gonna release the book next year. 2016: I'm not gonna write anything else before I finish Winds of Winter (... never finished Winter, but wrote Fire & Blood a year later instead). 2017 jan: GRRM predicts the book will be out that year, 2017. 2017 jul: New Westeros book, might be Fire & and Blood or Winds! (Which heavily implies, once again, that Winds of Winter is very close to being finished). 2019: lock me up if I'm not done with the book next summer 2022: 3/4 done, only wrote ~1000/1100 pages in all these years, still needs to write at least 400 more. Crazy with all those previous promises eh. 2023: You know what, I'm gonna produce yet another spinoff for HBO. (... this time based on my also unfished Dunk & Egg books set in Westeros, he'll just find some spare time between working on Spring and Fire & Blood 2 to write this one though, so no worries, HBO won't catch up again...) Delusional, lying... a mix of both?
George has a better chance of winning a gold medal in female gymnastics then finishing this series on his own. There's a variety of reasons ---- Too many POV characters and secondary characters to keep mental track of, S8's disaster likely demoralized him, he's rich and has means to do the things he always dreamed of doing and there is only so much time in one day. I still say he should become the editor and get his apprentices to finish the book. Just look at some of the creative alternative idea's that came up for S8 of the tv show --- there has to be some creative people out there that can help him finish this novel and still maintain a high quality level.
Too many povs is bullshit argument. There are series with significantly more main characters that managed to be published almost annually. Other than that I agree with you.
@@heretic124 Are the main characters POV in those novels? Not being a dick just curious. I could see having to juggle the thought process of 20 (?) main characters being a mentally exhausting experience. Not trying to make excuses for the man either. Something is clearly up beyond being a 'slow writer' and he proved that was inaccurate with the release of the first few novels.
I'll start worrying about Dream of Spring after Winds of Winter comes out. I don't want to pressure him; I'll just say that if and when Winds of Winter comes out, I'll buy it and I'll read it.
I very strongly suspect we'll get both books. Perhaps that's just because I only became a fan in the last few years, meaning I haven't had to endure all these soul-crushing years of waiting, that would wear down anyone's hope. All the same, it seems likely to me that the reason Winds has taken so long is a) as the story became so vast, it became hard to find a way to tie it all together and b) the failure of Game of Thrones' ending put a massive pressure on him to get the ending to ASOIAF right. Kind of as you suggested, Winds is very much the setup to the ending. I don't think he can have that book finished without a very, very clear idea of where A Dream of Spring will go. Combined with the pressure that came from GoT's ending, it's feels likely George has somewhat abandoned his "gardener" approach to writing for these books now and become the architect...keen to get it right, which isn't an approach he's too familiar with and has made for a hard time adjusting/finding ground between the two. Once Winds is done, everything will be in place for Dream, and I honestly do expect it'll go quicker. Still a lot of work, yes, ending notoriously take a lot of time HOWEVER I think Winds has proved George's main experience of grappling with the big, daunting bog, of how to pull his vast story together. I think, coming out of that metaphorical bog, publishing Winds to acclaim, seeing the end line in sight: all of it will motivate him with an excitement he hasn't quite had for a while with these books. The daunting side, the fear, the self-doubt of if he's even good enough to write these books (something I think he has alluded to before) will be less heavy with the end in sight and a plan set in place. Once Winds is done, I can see Dream taking 3 years max. But hey, it is still wishful
You should read more on him and the books with all due respect. 3 years? He's only ever had that gap between books when he had book finished at the same time, in the 90s, when he was younger and pretty just split a bigger book into two and wrote and edited Clash a bit more. Even the Feast/Dance megabook written at the same time, became two pieces released half a decade apart, and they are much less convoluted than whatever he wants to do with the last two. I think the best solution for the story would be one final book. Akin to Storm, a big one that advances the story well and wraps up everything. You really can't stretch the Vale, Riverlands, the Greyjoy uncles, Arya, Bran, Young Griff, Dorne, etc for too long without merging that with what Really matters: the Fire in Dany taking over westeros, and the Ice in the Long Night. The characters that have had 5/4 books worth of development don't need too much more to finish their arcs, and the newer ones can't carry two books, Areo Hotah POV only takes maximum 30 pages a book and I'm being generous. It's not that messy that he needs another duology.
@@RenegadeShepard69 yeah 3 years is a bit wishful but you've also kinda reinforced my point. AFFC/ADWD were books developing outwards, introducing more plots, more characters, more POV, more mysteries to be solved. TWOW is likely to be a book resigning a lot of that back in order to set up for a satisfying conclusion. I don't envision ADOS being a massive book. I could be completely wrong but it has the potential to be the quickest of them all to write, especially if he set in place a much clearer outline of how it will go, rather than his classic, slow gardener method. So yeah, 3 years is optimistic but I certainly don't think it'd take 10ish
@@mylittlethoughttree yeah I can see your point. Makes sense. I also don't think it'll take 10 years, but I'm more concerned with the quality of what he'll produce. After such a long time the story may have taken a completely different meaning to him personally and he may have lost his original dream. It would make sense for 7 to be smaller than 6 but I wonder if that would take the impact of the ending away and make it feel more like a stretched out epilogue. That's why I hoped he would be more concise because I myself personally don't see the need for too much more to happen. I could see your point if the final two turn into a duology akin to 1/2 as they were both relatively shorter and with smaller worlds. For that he would need to bring everyone closer quicker, like with clear focuses on kings landing, north and whatever the hell Euron will do (that D&D didn't explore) before he goes either ice or fire plotlines.
I like to think he’s been writing both books and that’s why it’s taken this long to come out with Winds, he’s trying to get close to finishing both before one releases or release both at the same time. It may be wishful thinking and very unlikely but I feel like there has to be a reason past “it’s hard” for it to have taken a decade to release one book.
As much I hate the idea of death you do bring up strong points. The whole idea burn the notes would be stupid I would hope he do something like Tolkien did have his son finish it or something like that. But hey in the end it’s all up to him.
I think we may be surprised how quickly Dream might arrive. I'm a fantasy novelist and, though I've never written an epic series like ASOIAF, I can't help but look at it as one big novel with all the uphill and downhill of writing a fantasy novel. Say a novel is 100,000 words (That's 350-400 pages give or take), well the first 30k is an absolute breeze and a delight as you discover the world and its characters, 30-50k more of a slog as you're beholden to the rules you've made and 50-80k is knotty and convoluted as all hell. But the last 20k? It's like riding a bike downhill, relatively speaking. Everything is set up for you. You can just concentrate on making a great ending. A Dance With Dragons and Winds are that 50k to 80k mark, when the writer is tangled up in all the reeds. But that last 20k is Dream.
Agreed. As much as George likes to describe himself as a gardener writer - he must have a pretty good idea of how things turn out. Once he's gotten the connecting stories figured out it'll be much easier to finish the saga. Main reason Winds of Winter is giving him grief is because he's essentially let his 'garden' get overgrown and he's desperately pruning it all back. Meereen in particular is a massive convoluted plot involving four (or five) POV characters converging along with a half dozen other main characters and dozens of minor characters with a massive battle happening at the same time. Intrigue is still a big part of the story, with multiple overlapping plans, plots, conspiracies and mysteries. And we've still not seen the White Walkers again since Sam killed one many books ago. There's just so much going on that influences other plots - requiring planning, rewriting and reordering to happen every time a major event is put down on paper. I suspect George, if he even wants to continue writing after this, will stick to less epic storytelling for a while.
I know it’s not true, but it’s my hope that GRRM and his publisher concocted a plan years ago to use all this time to get Winds and Dream both written. It could be a HUGE marketing coup to have Dream release, let’s say…2-3 years after Winds.The Dunk & Egg show would be going by then, so George could focus on those (arguably) easier stories so that the D&E show doesn’t run out of material. I know that’s not how it’ll play out but let me have my pipe dream!
I am over GRRM- if he was going to finish what he started, it would be done by now. He does not care about it any longer- just wants to work at HBO as a showrunner. Finishing the story is the most difficult part of the series- I think he is lost to the original idea's of this series.
Yeah this whole series was the most megalomaniac way of asking for a job as a writer at HBO. All this random stuff that he is releasing should've been content for his magnum opus. I'm sure whatever ideas are being used for those shows could've been used for one last big book (he shouldn't need two more).
@@OpTiCNoobtube 18 million people watching the shows based around his work says you're wrong. The millions of views that are on video after video here on youtube about the world he created says you're wrong.
i would be happy with just getting winds in my lifetime. GOT exists in my head in a way im content with. I love the characters but the world building is so good and the community picking away at every single morsel of lore is so fun
If you listen to his most recent interviews like for HOTD he says he’s finished some characters story lines completely and some he’s still working on. That right there makes me think he’s writing both at the same time to avoid any continuity issues. 🤞
Regardless, one of the greatest and well written stories in history. If he manages to somehow finish it, George deserves all the praise. And if he doesn’t, which is the more likely, he is still legend
No WAY. We'll be lucky to get Winds of Winter, if anything. GRRM is more likely to write a 1200pg history of the New Giants NFL franchise than actually finish ASOIAF. The only thing to actually look fwd to is HOTD Season 2. After that, it's just the void.
@@kwisatzhaderach9087 haha, the only one of the mispronounced things I can remember of the top of my head is Ptire(Petyr)😁 still he did win an award for all the voices he created🙂
George will finish Winds eventually, but he wont finish Dream. I do think someone else will posthumously finish and release Dream utilizing George's notes, despite his previous comments. If George publishes anything else other than Winds for the rest of his career, I think it'll be Fire and Blood Vol. 2 and maybe a couple of Dunk and Egg stories. I think it's even likely we may get Dunk and Egg or more Fire and Blood before Winds even, what with the shows on HBO. I think Winds will still come out, though. He has way too much of it written to just let it go unreleased forever.
@@opalmay3210I consider that as a internet rumour where everyone has read or heard it from someone else but no one can find a first hand source. If you do find it I’m interested.
@@leepreston9637I don’t buy that. If GRRM was going to have Bran be king there’d be a major reason for that ending. So either Bran will be king (with better storytelling therefore more satisfactory) or GRRM will change it because other parts of the story have evolved that King Bran doesn’t fit any more. He’s not going to change it just because Dumb and Dumber completely screwed up the ending.
The fact is that he ultimately CAN'T stop people from finishing the story. It can only be delayed for a long time. In 2106, A Dance With Dragons would enter public domain, barring any change in US copyright law. However, most of the important characters will entered public domain territory long before that.
I think one of the main issues he's having is that the ending bombed on the show. I think that ending is exactly how he planned to end the books too. Now he can't use that ending. Can you imagine Bran ending up as king in the books? People would lose their minds. Now he has to rework the entire ending and I don't think he really wants to.
I think a lot of thinks that happened in the show are still going to happen and will work if written competently (dany going crazy for example). However the way the books are going I dont really see bran becoming king (more likely another tree person). The shows issue is not the ending but how it got there.
I can imagine bran being king in the books as well, only done more competently if done by george. Because of 1 thing. Dorne. The books did a great job painting Dorne and what did we get in the show? If George envisioned bran being the king, then he can make it work.
@@sibinsamthomas4719 tbh everything was handeled better in the books. I agree he could pull it off but I dont see it for his character personally. That being said brans story is still so far behind from what we have seen in the show, a lot can happen
@@MultiApfelmuss Honestly, I don't know why else Dumb and Dumber would actually pull that unless that's how George planned it. Its all speculation until George releases the books (if that ever happens)
I have already known for years now that we will never get the final book. Cuz the dude is over 70 years and overweight. Berserk’s author Kentaro Miura was only 54 years old when he died. George is at an age where he can die any day and he has no children like Tolkien and Frank Herbert to finish up his unpublished works. Kentaro Miura luckily had apprentices and his best friend Kouji Mori who knows how Berserk is gonna end in order to finish that manga series but George has no one that close to him in order to take up the task to finish his book series if he passes away.
@@johnreynolds2512 Yeah. I get why he wants to make it seven though - its a thematic number for the series. But considering how it was originally going to be a trilogy...
Well each Stormlight Archive are 350,000-400,000 words long and in some editions are split in two parts, so that's not contradictory to have two big books splitted in two parts each.
One might be able to name authors who were writing into their 90's but given his obvious fitness state do you really think GRRM is going to be one of them?
wasnt there a comic con years ago, where he talked about the intro chapter of winds of winter, and then he told the audience, he is closer to finish dream of spring than winds of winter?
I think it really depends on three things: 1-Wether he is stuck on some aspect of the story again wich it could be possible but as the video sais it is less likely, than on winds, feast dance and winds were the middle part of the story were it expanded the most, and he had to scrap a huge concept of this middle part( 5 year gap) that affected the story as a hall and it's many moving parts, bu the second part of winds the story is coming together there are still thousands of pages and the possibility to be stuck but not on this level. 2- Wether hbo pushes him to write fb part 2 or more dunk and egg novels, it is possible and from a a tv show platform the blackfire rebellions miggt be the most promissing, but contary to when martin wrote the first volume there a lot of other spinoff possiblities, writting fire and blood part 2 earlier would be a question of preference preference for a spinoff option not of lack of options, alsobwe have to consider that of they want to build a huge cinematografic universe and not just do 1 or 3 spinoffs, they might want to keep some of the best stories for the future, delaying fire and blood part 2 is also a good way for martin to increase the odds of a Jahaerys and Alysane spinoff wich he wants but hbo is not convinced, martin could also split fb in three, he had already 200 pages last year, reaching the end of the first blackfyre rebellion and begining of dunk and and egg wouldn't be a big deal, then there are the dunk and egg stories, if he tries to do all of them for the tv show before dream it might be problem, but the actors will still need to grow older so really the only urgent story to write is the dornish adventure if they intend to do one story for each season as is the plan now, at worst he might do the dornish adventure, the village hero and she wolves. 3-his age, not a nice topic to talk about but a factor
With the current pace he is on and the writers strike preventing from distracting to much I think we might have winds by the end of 2024 or begining of 2025, them probrably we will have the dornsih adventure of dunk an egg, and then he will go back to dream while hbo adapts the reigns of Aegon to Jahaerys and the first dunk and egg stories, maybe he does one or two additional dunk and egg stories before ending dream
at this point, I hope he leaves enough notes to mark out the endgame of the plot so that some talented writer can pick it up and finish the series after he's gone.
I came to terms with the fact that he won’t release any more ASOIAF books about 5 or 6 years ago. Nothing that has happened since then has changed my mind. He wrote himself into a corner with far too many plot threads that he can’t possibly tie up. If he wanted to, he could of finished the book years ago. He hasn’t released ASOIAF book since July 12, 2011. That is inexcusable, it doesn’t take 12 years to write a book.
I don't think it has anything to do with how he wrote the story so far, or fan pressure or what not. The progress all halted the moment the tv show began, and that's the real reason why we never saw another book. Fan pressure might be annoying, but how many fans have direct access to the man? Nope, it's HBO wanting to pump out infinite content based on his work who have caused this unending stall.
Fun fact. People die. No clue why it’s considered so uncomfortable or taboo to discuss the possibility of someone dying before completing their life’s work.
Perhaps even accidentally. We know he's written chapters that he's later set aside for the next novel already (Feast For Crows going into Dance With Dragons).
Idk, he's been very involved in projects from the first show, to HotD, to elden ring. I feel like he's still trying to set up Dream in Winds without making it seemed rushed
I don't know about Dreams, but the writer's strike for one thing is sure gonna be great for Winds. GRRM won't be busy attending meetings with tv show writers.
I think hes sitting on the last 2 books, he basically got a test run thanks to show and he knows what he wants, when he thinks time is right they will be released
@pyropulse7932It's a collaborative effort of ASOIAF/1000 Worlds super fans-both writers and editors-who obsess over every ounce of the source material, its themes, and capturing George's literary voice. It would be more absurd to presume George is a mystical, magical unicorn whose writing style and abilities are beyond the comprehension of mere mortals. He's not. His themes have been consistent since the beginning. His major plot points are mostly recycled, if not already seen by millions of viewers years ago. His modern voice could easily be duplicated by some learning AI at this point. As to "no discernment"...really? Would discerning the drastic stylistic shift from Thrones to Dance somehow be a lack of discernment since it's same author? It's fine not to like the direction they've taken, it's absurd to think other people enjoying the project are deranged
@pyropulse7932 "Everyone who enjoys this fan project is an infidel who lacks discernment because I subscribe to authorial intent and George being a fairy princess writes the precisely satisfactory word of god whenever the fuck he gets around to it and themes are for 8th grade book reports and no one can have at this party *something something unnecessary semicolon something something whilst* ..."
I don't think we'll get it but I dont mind so much. Set up the Endgame. Give us resolutions to the battles, get Jon and Danerys together, reveal at the end his Targaryan blood and see her go crazy in private. Pls, I just want to bathe in Bolton blood before I die
This is a pretty special case, though. GRRM mentioned in some interview a few years ago that his publisher kept everything on standby and was ready to publish it within three months if he just delivered the book, so I'm guessing they'd be going for something similar now.
@@bgross685 Why would he lie about his publisher wanting to get it out quickly? I'm not saying it will be out soon - just that I doubt we'll see them taking pre-orders up to 1,5 year in advance.
@@perlundgren7797 Why does GRRM keep saying he is close to getting the manuscript to the publisher? Been saying it for just about 10 years. GRRM has periodically given updates and said he was just about done and he's lied about that. At this point, anything GRRM says doesn't have much credibility. Besides him saying that he's taken on a new HBO project or going on vacation; that I believe
@@bgross685 We all know how well his predictions have worked out. Is that somehow related to how far ahead the publisher will start taking pre-orders when/if it's finally released?
He should just let chatGPT write it at this point. I'm so glad I never got invested in the books. Being as invested as I was in the show (and ALL the fan theories between seasons!) was already a waste of years of my life. I'd be super-pissed if I had sunk even MORE time into the book series knowing we will never get a real ending to the story, which for show watchers would be for the SECOND time. If GRRM was serious about finishing ASOIAF he'd have quit going off on tangents doing minor projects (and even finishing *whole other books* - ahem Fire & Blood) to get the last two books out years ago. His health is obviously poor, for whatever he's been doing with his wealth he hasn't used it to take care of his body. At the very least, he needed to get over his pride and ask for help, but he seems like the kind of man that is convinced nobody could possibly understand his thinking and insists if he doesn't write it, no one should. Sooo I'm done with the ASOIAF story. You can say it's GRRM's prerogative not to finish his series, but it's also my prerogative not to give his work any more of my time or money. At this rate, AI actually WILL finish the series for him before he ever gets around to it... if he even lives long enough.
I really believe he needs to embrace a writing group. George has the final say and the overall outline, but he needs help. His baby has grown into a colossal monster and it's too big for 1 man.
"George has had this ending in mind for decades" - i don't think he had any idea how it will end when he wrote the first books. He said many times he writes like a "gardener" not like an "architect", most times he has no idea what exactly will grow from the seed. he knows it's a vegetable but what exactly that is he doesn't know and doesn't want to know... this would explain the struggle to end it because the story is so vast that it's very hard to tie up all the threads into a great ending
Writing like a gardener vs architect isn't what you're talking about. Anyone that's writing has the story in their mind, beginning, middle, AND end. It's the middle that takes foreeevvvver to slog through writing, but the "he's hand the ending in his mind" I believe 100%.
It's truly sad that the Greatest novel ever written, will not have an ending. The Long Night will continue forever. Winter will never come. And Spring will always be a Dream.
Ya know I’ve held out hope for years and years and years since around 2015 when I finished the books. And ya know after the disaster of s8 and after over 12 years later from the last book. I kinda just give up, it’s clear George doesn’t have the same passion for the story anymore. It’s truly sad we’ll never get a true ending to one of the most amazing stories ever told.
I've always been of the opinion that if George can finish The Winds of Winter, then he'll have the hardest part of the finale out of the way and A Dream of Spring will be easier. It still might take years, but definitely not a decade and possibly under 5 years.
I'd love him to finish his books and live another 20 years!! But being realistic, it would also be nice if someone could write the remaining of the last book of the series, and quite sad if the series remains incomplete after all those decades. Maybe Brandon Sanderson? hahah at least he has experience finishing other people's work and is prolific writer, seems like a good option. I'm longing for Martin to change his mind about it.
I am optimistic. I feel like it will be way easier to write compared to winds of winter. I do hope george takes care of his health though. Dude is getting really old.
It is possible that George is working on both books simultaneously, dividing up the material between them as and when he has it. And the reason he doesn’t want to release Winds before both books are finished is that something may later crop up in Dream that would require him to go back and change something in Winds, which he couldn’t do if the book was already published. He has already given himself that problem at least once by killing off a character who he later realised he needed and couldn’t go back and remove his death from the series because it had happened in a book that was already published. It makes sense not to risk repeating that mistake. That’s how I’d do it, anyway.
i mean it is possible and i would not blame him for not publicly saying he's doing this. As to weather he is, i used to think that's what he was doing but seeing how it's been so long since dance, i can't see a world where is publisher would be okay with the current situation. I think what is more likely and why i think if we get winds we get dream is winds seems to be the trickier book to write, bringing all the plot threads together, where dream should be wrapping it up with a ending he's known about for a long time, so now days i tend to sit in the camp that if we get winds, dream will be an easier book to write and maybe a quicker book to write.
He just said he's still at 1,100 manuscript pages for winds, which is exactly where he was a year ago at this time. There's no timetable for Winds at all, at this point, let alone Dream. I believe Dream is not begun and will be even harder to write for him, since Winds will have taken him in all likelihood over 15 years to write.
I am very sceptical the book will come out and if it will I would be double suprised him actually finishing the whole thing. Maybe.. just maybe he have come into realization of why not writing it when nobody seems to be interested in his screenplays, he might be an immaculate writer when given the time, but in hollywood you have to be Fast. Some crazy good scripts even for a series season have been written in couple months, like for The White Lotus. It isn't neccesarily the standard to be that quick but you cannot take forever. Also he clearly just cannot make anything good fast. Ok so interest in him have faded all around in many sense. Maybe he likes the attention and have actually continued the books for also not having nothing to do. I don't bet too much on it tho that he would be further than couple chapters if that. Started some pages and drafts. People who say he have no obligation to write the books if he wants now to just live the rest of his days as a rich man. Yes sure, true. He still is an ahole when he have posted/said so..soo many times estimations/dates of the release. That's an insult to the fans if you cannot stop doing that at what, after some fifht time. It's aholish for the fans and his publishers. Remember when the two books was promised for HBO to be ready before they catch up and that was S04 when they did, used half and half of his material and own in S05, if that. He quite literally didn't write anything during that time.
Who would have guessed that the Starks were the greatest liars of the series. At the end of the day, Winter never came.
How has this comment gone unnoticed? Good one, Lucas, you made me spew my coffee. 😂
At the end of the most recent book there was a white raven from the Citadel so I think technically Winter has started
@@antalonampreel861God of Darkness: Now I will kill my arrogant brother, the God of Light and Fire
Hahahhha . I haven’t seen this one yet 😂
Lol 😂so true
Haven't y'all noticed? The reason it's called a dream of spring is cause we'll all be left dreaming about it every spring
Lmao.....you killed us all
@@mingthan7028 LOLMAO (｡•̀ᴗ-)✧
I first heard this joke about10 years ago. Now it's just sadly true
@Rodrik of Harlaw I can even see a rodrik of harlaw spin off series being released earlier than the dream.
@@RenegadeShepard69We'll see the conclusion of yeti storyline before we see the conclusion of the main series
A Dream of Spring will be released when the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, when the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves.
Or after Half-Life 3 comes out. Whichever happens first.
Bioware will make a game better than Dragon Age: Origins before we get ADoS 🤷🏾♂️😔
My money is on the sun
That could all happen in Winds - Dany's "sun" rises in the West (Westeros) while it "sets" in the East as Mereen falls apart. The sea that goes dry is the Dothraki sea - turning to ghost grass - and the ocean waves look like mountains - or maybe clouds that look like mountains - seem to blow in the wind, or there is volcanic activity activity that rearranges mountains.
Dad will be home from buying cigarettes any day now!
It’ll come out when TES6 comes out
I really believe that he is working on both books. Winds will be done in 24 and Dreams not much later. He is just making sure that every single detail is perfect. I’m probably way off but I can still dream.
Let’s Up Pray 🙏🏿 ❤😅
Heh, I just posted something g similar. I’ll join you in your delusional hope 😎
holy copium, lol
I think the same. My hunch is that Winds and Dream will be a back-to-back release, with Dream dropping on a year or two after Winds.
I believe that once he’s gets over this hump that is Winds, he will write dream fairly quickly.
Even if GRRM lived to 120 I wouldn't expect him to finish. After finishing A Storm of Swords he was supposed to have 2 books left (A Dance With Dragons & The Winds of Winter). More than 20 years on from then and after publishing 2 more books (the most recent one over a decade ago)... he's still got 2 books left.
Even if GRRM was immortal I doubt I'd live long enough for him to finish.
He has consistently lied about the release of the book for over a decade now. He also just started a new spinoff with HBO, based on the unfinished Dunk & Egg stories... can't make this shit up. Winds of Winter might happen, Spring would have to be written by another author, 0 change GRRM will do it.
Your comment brings me back to a decade ago when I first thought to myself, "does he really need two more books after Feast/Dance?" Because the story progresses so much through the "middle act" Storm, I couldn't believe how much changed in that book, and then it slows down through 4/5, then I can only see one more build before it's over. Else it'll get repetitive and time wasting. I genuinely thought back then before the TV show showed how that you can actually wrap up all the major plot lines in just one more bigger book. Slavers Bay should be quick, then after that all there is is for Dany to go west. The Battle of Winterfell should be early on too, then it's all about the Long Night. And everything in the middle of that fire and ice can flow well within 1,000 pages imo. Especially because so many character arcs are just overstaying. Young Griff, Dorne, the Vale, Riverlands, Arya and Bran, the Greyjoy uncles, etc. don't need two more books. And those that have had 30, 40 etc pov chapters don't need all that many more either.
I don't think I can think any different now that that weak show is over and the waiting game is back.
@@captain4318 I don't think he intentionally lies. From what I have heard he is a procrastinator with no discipline
@@longmist6508 i got a bridge to sell you...
You just described exactly what con man do, they lie and hide behind excuses
Its just today, people love their excuses, so "inser label here"ism is why i cant do anything! LEAVE ME WATCHING NETFLIX & MASTRUBATING! MY LIFE HAS MEANING!
Yea right.
I do feel bad about thinking about these things and I do hope that George lives a long and prosperous life and is able to finish the work he sets out to do but we already have examples like Robert Jordan, Terry Pracchet, Kentaro Miura and Frank Herbert to name a few who passed on before they finish their work and some of whom were younger than George so unfortunately these are questions that you need to be asked.
You forgot J.R.R. Tolkien. He never finished The Silmarillion.
It's a worthy question.
@@realhillkell I agree that it's often distasteful, but this is about finishing the _books_ - plural. That the next one will take less time is still just wishful thinking at this point. We've heard that before with this series.
@@perlundgren7797 but he was releasing books consistently before TWOW so he could go back to that 🤷🏾♂️
GRR Martin is 74 years old
Average lifespan for US males: 77,28 years
Hes 74 and drinks nothing but coke, having a discussion about the chances of him dying before finishing the series definitely isnt disrespectful, its just being realistic.
GRRM has become a cottage industry, with a roomful of assistants in his office, his phones ringing, meetings with various show producers and writers, just a constant string of interruptions and distractions.
We need to clone at least ten GRRMs. Five to work on the books (one for each of the main characters), the others to handle all the PR, showbusiness and conventions!
@@jamesgravil9162 We need at least 10 Georges for food descriptions in Winds
If Winds makes it out, we’re guaranteed at least some minimal cliffnotes of whatever transpires in Dream of Spring at some point after his death.
At this point, only George knows.
We know nothing
And honestly not even him might be sure. It might take more time than he intended, or he might rewrite a lot, or other projects could get in the way more than they are getting in the way now so nobody truly knows.
We’ll have to read the rest of the series through a quija board
@@kellyrollins8308Oh lordy GRRM’s sex scenes would be even more clunky being delivered one letter at a time from the Great Beyond 👻
It is known
George has enough money to hire a team of writers to help him write A Dream of Spring. He could have a writer's brainstorming session and then assign 20 or so writers to produce one or two draft chapters each. George can then edit the draft, write the bits he wants to write, and get it done in one to two years.
I think grrm is just to stubborn to have anyone help write his book
correct@@batz3235
If George does sadly pass away before the series is finished, it should be passed over to Patrick Rothfuss. I can’t think of anyone better to not finish the series.
2011: I'll be done in 2014.
2015: Gonna release the book next year.
2016: I'm not gonna write anything else before I finish Winds of Winter (... never finished Winter, but wrote Fire & Blood a year later instead).
2017 jan: GRRM predicts the book will be out that year, 2017.
2017 jul: New Westeros book, might be Fire & and Blood or Winds! (Which heavily implies, once again, that Winds of Winter is very close to being finished).
2019: lock me up if I'm not done with the book next summer
2022: 3/4 done, only wrote ~1000/1100 pages in all these years, still needs to write at least 400 more. Crazy with all those previous promises eh.
2023: You know what, I'm gonna produce yet another spinoff for HBO. (... this time based on my also unfished Dunk & Egg books set in Westeros, he'll just find some spare time between working on Spring and Fire & Blood 2 to write this one though, so no worries, HBO won't catch up again...)
Delusional, lying... a mix of both?
Liar
@@IceManBgd Probably yeah
at the beginning delusional and later a liar
delusional as far as deadlines go and sick/tired of writing in 1 "universe" for 30 years
its because he doesnt use outlines.
George has a better chance of winning a gold medal in female gymnastics then finishing this series on his own. There's a variety of reasons ---- Too many POV characters and secondary characters to keep mental track of, S8's disaster likely demoralized him, he's rich and has means to do the things he always dreamed of doing and there is only so much time in one day. I still say he should become the editor and get his apprentices to finish the book. Just look at some of the creative alternative idea's that came up for S8 of the tv show --- there has to be some creative people out there that can help him finish this novel and still maintain a high quality level.
Too many povs is bullshit argument. There are series with significantly more main characters that managed to be published almost annually.
Other than that I agree with you.
@@heretic124 Are the main characters POV in those novels? Not being a dick just curious. I could see having to juggle the thought process of 20 (?) main characters being a mentally exhausting experience. Not trying to make excuses for the man either. Something is clearly up beyond being a 'slow writer' and he proved that was inaccurate with the release of the first few novels.
I keep the faith that it will come out. That faith may be dashed but I will hold onto that hope as we trudge through the long night
I'll start worrying about Dream of Spring after Winds of Winter comes out. I don't want to pressure him; I'll just say that if and when Winds of Winter comes out, I'll buy it and I'll read it.
First to take the black!!!!
Whether we get the books or not
The realm owes lord Martin a debt that can never be Repaid..
I very strongly suspect we'll get both books. Perhaps that's just because I only became a fan in the last few years, meaning I haven't had to endure all these soul-crushing years of waiting, that would wear down anyone's hope. All the same, it seems likely to me that the reason Winds has taken so long is a) as the story became so vast, it became hard to find a way to tie it all together and b) the failure of Game of Thrones' ending put a massive pressure on him to get the ending to ASOIAF right.
Kind of as you suggested, Winds is very much the setup to the ending. I don't think he can have that book finished without a very, very clear idea of where A Dream of Spring will go. Combined with the pressure that came from GoT's ending, it's feels likely George has somewhat abandoned his "gardener" approach to writing for these books now and become the architect...keen to get it right, which isn't an approach he's too familiar with and has made for a hard time adjusting/finding ground between the two.
Once Winds is done, everything will be in place for Dream, and I honestly do expect it'll go quicker. Still a lot of work, yes, ending notoriously take a lot of time HOWEVER I think Winds has proved George's main experience of grappling with the big, daunting bog, of how to pull his vast story together. I think, coming out of that metaphorical bog, publishing Winds to acclaim, seeing the end line in sight: all of it will motivate him with an excitement he hasn't quite had for a while with these books. The daunting side, the fear, the self-doubt of if he's even good enough to write these books (something I think he has alluded to before) will be less heavy with the end in sight and a plan set in place. Once Winds is done, I can see Dream taking 3 years max.
But hey, it is still wishful
You should read more on him and the books with all due respect. 3 years? He's only ever had that gap between books when he had book finished at the same time, in the 90s, when he was younger and pretty just split a bigger book into two and wrote and edited Clash a bit more.
Even the Feast/Dance megabook written at the same time, became two pieces released half a decade apart, and they are much less convoluted than whatever he wants to do with the last two.
I think the best solution for the story would be one final book. Akin to Storm, a big one that advances the story well and wraps up everything. You really can't stretch the Vale, Riverlands, the Greyjoy uncles, Arya, Bran, Young Griff, Dorne, etc for too long without merging that with what Really matters: the Fire in Dany taking over westeros, and the Ice in the Long Night. The characters that have had 5/4 books worth of development don't need too much more to finish their arcs, and the newer ones can't carry two books, Areo Hotah POV only takes maximum 30 pages a book and I'm being generous. It's not that messy that he needs another duology.
@@RenegadeShepard69 yeah 3 years is a bit wishful but you've also kinda reinforced my point. AFFC/ADWD were books developing outwards, introducing more plots, more characters, more POV, more mysteries to be solved. TWOW is likely to be a book resigning a lot of that back in order to set up for a satisfying conclusion. I don't envision ADOS being a massive book. I could be completely wrong but it has the potential to be the quickest of them all to write, especially if he set in place a much clearer outline of how it will go, rather than his classic, slow gardener method. So yeah, 3 years is optimistic but I certainly don't think it'd take 10ish
@@mylittlethoughttree yeah I can see your point. Makes sense. I also don't think it'll take 10 years, but I'm more concerned with the quality of what he'll produce. After such a long time the story may have taken a completely different meaning to him personally and he may have lost his original dream. It would make sense for 7 to be smaller than 6 but I wonder if that would take the impact of the ending away and make it feel more like a stretched out epilogue. That's why I hoped he would be more concise because I myself personally don't see the need for too much more to happen. I could see your point if the final two turn into a duology akin to 1/2 as they were both relatively shorter and with smaller worlds. For that he would need to bring everyone closer quicker, like with clear focuses on kings landing, north and whatever the hell Euron will do (that D&D didn't explore) before he goes either ice or fire plotlines.
I like to think he’s been writing both books and that’s why it’s taken this long to come out with Winds, he’s trying to get close to finishing both before one releases or release both at the same time.
It may be wishful thinking and very unlikely but I feel like there has to be a reason past “it’s hard” for it to have taken a decade to release one book.
As much I hate the idea of death you do bring up strong points. The whole idea burn the notes would be stupid I would hope he do something like Tolkien did have his son finish it or something like that. But hey in the end it’s all up to him.
I think we may be surprised how quickly Dream might arrive. I'm a fantasy novelist and, though I've never written an epic series like ASOIAF, I can't help but look at it as one big novel with all the uphill and downhill of writing a fantasy novel. Say a novel is 100,000 words (That's 350-400 pages give or take), well the first 30k is an absolute breeze and a delight as you discover the world and its characters, 30-50k more of a slog as you're beholden to the rules you've made and 50-80k is knotty and convoluted as all hell. But the last 20k? It's like riding a bike downhill, relatively speaking. Everything is set up for you. You can just concentrate on making a great ending.
A Dance With Dragons and Winds are that 50k to 80k mark, when the writer is tangled up in all the reeds. But that last 20k is Dream.
I hope so
Agreed. As much as George likes to describe himself as a gardener writer - he must have a pretty good idea of how things turn out. Once he's gotten the connecting stories figured out it'll be much easier to finish the saga.
Main reason Winds of Winter is giving him grief is because he's essentially let his 'garden' get overgrown and he's desperately pruning it all back. Meereen in particular is a massive convoluted plot involving four (or five) POV characters converging along with a half dozen other main characters and dozens of minor characters with a massive battle happening at the same time. Intrigue is still a big part of the story, with multiple overlapping plans, plots, conspiracies and mysteries. And we've still not seen the White Walkers again since Sam killed one many books ago. There's just so much going on that influences other plots - requiring planning, rewriting and reordering to happen every time a major event is put down on paper.
I suspect George, if he even wants to continue writing after this, will stick to less epic storytelling for a while.
From your typing fingers to the Gods Both Old and New!!!!
Thats so cool. Which are your books names?
I know it’s not true, but it’s my hope that GRRM and his publisher concocted a plan years ago to use all this time to get Winds and Dream both written.
It could be a HUGE marketing coup to have Dream release, let’s say…2-3 years after Winds.The Dunk & Egg show would be going by then, so George could focus on those (arguably) easier stories so that the D&E show doesn’t run out of material.
I know that’s not how it’ll play out but let me have my pipe dream!
I’m with you!🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I am with you in snorting that copium. I want the large gap to be planned
@@rovert881 Oh yes, I’m a big fan of Cope-a-Cola these days.
I am over GRRM- if he was going to finish what he started, it would be done by now. He does not care about it any longer- just wants to work at HBO as a showrunner. Finishing the story is the most difficult part of the series- I think he is lost to the original idea's of this series.
Exactly. He said fuck it and is making random shit no one wants 💀
This is exactly why I refuse to support any and all GoT spinoffs
@@caseyhart4999 Support? heck, don't watch then. But when Winds comes out, well, see ya at the bookstore!
Yeah this whole series was the most megalomaniac way of asking for a job as a writer at HBO.
All this random stuff that he is releasing should've been content for his magnum opus. I'm sure whatever ideas are being used for those shows could've been used for one last big book (he shouldn't need two more).
@@OpTiCNoobtube 18 million people watching the shows based around his work says you're wrong. The millions of views that are on video after video here on youtube about the world he created says you're wrong.
The title is so depressing, yet here I am
Without having yet watched the video: short answer, yes; long answer, yes but we don't know who will be the author
i would be happy with just getting winds in my lifetime. GOT exists in my head in a way im content with. I love the characters but the world building is so good and the community picking away at every single morsel of lore is so fun
If you listen to his most recent interviews like for HOTD he says he’s finished some characters story lines completely and some he’s still working on. That right there makes me think he’s writing both at the same time to avoid any continuity issues. 🤞
Y’all talking about Dream of Spring, I’m still here waiting patiently for Winds of Winter.
It's literally impossible for Dream to ever be finished by GRRM.
I don't think literally, or impossible, mean what you think they mean.
Regardless, one of the greatest and well written stories in history. If he manages to somehow finish it, George deserves all the praise. And if he doesn’t, which is the more likely, he is still legend
He’s a walking corpse
Almost anyone can write that level of quality if they take as long as he does.
@@leepreston9637 nope you could never
@@realhillkell keep worshipping at the altar of the god who does not provide.
@@leepreston9637 my man what on earth are you saying¿?¿‽
No WAY. We'll be lucky to get Winds of Winter, if anything.
GRRM is more likely to write a 1200pg history of the New Giants NFL franchise than actually finish ASOIAF.
The only thing to actually look fwd to is HOTD Season 2. After that, it's just the void.
They could get someone to write a Skelton book with GRRM tell them exactly the story. Then he goes in and polishes it
GRR Martin is 74 years old
Avverage lifespan for US males: 77,28 years
There, you have your answer, lol
TIL everyone dies at the average cutoff. That's what average means.
I'm a audiobook guy and when the book finally comes out, I'm still gonna miss Roy Dotrice 😢
Too many mispronunciations
@@waltonsmith7210 😄
Nearly every name is mispronounced, I wasn't a massive fan personally.
@@kwisatzhaderach9087 haha, the only one of the mispronounced things I can remember of the top of my head is Ptire(Petyr)😁 still he did win an award for all the voices he created🙂
@@gak9319 Just don't have a Yank doing the new ones and I'm happy.
Dude this is such a refreshing take. People are so callous and cynical when it comes to this topic
1:12 I totally get that, I always feel kind of gross when this is brought. On a positive note, it’s shows how passionate his book friends are
Taking time off to think or write about another project really does help some writers!
George will finish Winds eventually, but he wont finish Dream. I do think someone else will posthumously finish and release Dream utilizing George's notes, despite his previous comments. If George publishes anything else other than Winds for the rest of his career, I think it'll be Fire and Blood Vol. 2 and maybe a couple of Dunk and Egg stories. I think it's even likely we may get Dunk and Egg or more Fire and Blood before Winds even, what with the shows on HBO. I think Winds will still come out, though. He has way too much of it written to just let it go unreleased forever.
He said that his notes are to be burned if he dies before he finishes the series
@@opalmay3210 Something no one will ever do cause that's just stupid.
@@opalmay3210 it says in the video that that is a rumour. Have you heard him say that publicly?
@@fx-thejuice5774 I thought I had heard him say it in an interview but I don't care to go digging for it. Hopefully it's a rumor
@@opalmay3210I consider that as a internet rumour where everyone has read or heard it from someone else but no one can find a first hand source. If you do find it I’m interested.
I swear if Bran The Broken is King for the ending of A Dream of Spring…
He probably won't be. That was the original idea but he's changing it because of how unpopular he saw it was. That's why it's taking so long.
I don't mind it, it's how they get there that matters.
@@leepreston9637I don’t buy that. If GRRM was going to have Bran be king there’d be a major reason for that ending. So either Bran will be king (with better storytelling therefore more satisfactory) or GRRM will change it because other parts of the story have evolved that King Bran doesn’t fit any more.
He’s not going to change it just because Dumb and Dumber completely screwed up the ending.
The fact is that he ultimately CAN'T stop people from finishing the story. It can only be delayed for a long time. In 2106, A Dance With Dragons would enter public domain, barring any change in US copyright law. However, most of the important characters will entered public domain territory long before that.
There will be a lot of "official" fanfics, just like Star Wars and other... Probably powered by Genarative AI.
No one will care to finish it in 100 years. It will be forgotten long before then.
@@tamelo I and most other fans would NEVER accept an AI as the author of ASOIAF.
I think one of the main issues he's having is that the ending bombed on the show. I think that ending is exactly how he planned to end the books too. Now he can't use that ending. Can you imagine Bran ending up as king in the books? People would lose their minds. Now he has to rework the entire ending and I don't think he really wants to.
I think a lot of thinks that happened in the show are still going to happen and will work if written competently (dany going crazy for example). However the way the books are going I dont really see bran becoming king (more likely another tree person).
The shows issue is not the ending but how it got there.
no. d&d communicated with grrm to make sure they wouldn't step on his toes
I can imagine bran being king in the books as well, only done more competently if done by george. Because of 1 thing. Dorne. The books did a great job painting Dorne and what did we get in the show? If George envisioned bran being the king, then he can make it work.
@@sibinsamthomas4719 tbh everything was handeled better in the books. I agree he could pull it off but I dont see it for his character personally. That being said brans story is still so far behind from what we have seen in the show, a lot can happen
@@MultiApfelmuss Honestly, I don't know why else Dumb and Dumber would actually pull that unless that's how George planned it. Its all speculation until George releases the books (if that ever happens)
I'm waiting for him to finish it all before I even start book 1!
I have already known for years now that we will never get the final book. Cuz the dude is over 70 years and overweight. Berserk’s author Kentaro Miura was only 54 years old when he died. George is at an age where he can die any day and he has no children like Tolkien and Frank Herbert to finish up his unpublished works. Kentaro Miura luckily had apprentices and his best friend Kouji Mori who knows how Berserk is gonna end in order to finish that manga series but George has no one that close to him in order to take up the task to finish his book series if he passes away.
I'm currently just following Preston Jacob's fanfiction project haha
I'm skeptical that he can finish the story in two books. I think TWOW and/or ADOS will have to be split into two parts.
His own wife has been saying 8 books for the last decade.
@@johnreynolds2512 Yeah. I get why he wants to make it seven though - its a thematic number for the series. But considering how it was originally going to be a trilogy...
wasnt winds supposed to be last, and then he split it into two when he realized it wouldnt be enough?
Well each Stormlight Archive are 350,000-400,000 words long and in some editions are split in two parts, so that's not contradictory to have two big books splitted in two parts each.
I still have hope, but it has been dying waiting for Winds of Winter
Edit: I, as well, will believe it when I have a copy of the book in my hands.
One might be able to name authors who were writing into their 90's but given his obvious fitness state do you really think GRRM is going to be one of them?
It's his mental fitness that counts, not his physical fitness. Although one certainly does impact the latter.
@@jamesgravil9162 you can't write when you're in your ninety's when you die of a heart attack in your seventies.
@@jamesgravil9162 the doughnuts won't let him live to be ninety.
@@jamesgravil9162mental and physical health are one in the same.
@@leepreston9637 idk, for how unhealthy the guy looks he already outlived what most fans thought he would by a decade.
Hell nah. Especially if HoTD ratings increase from yr to yr. We're more likely to get a Fire & Blood part II b4 we get Winds of Winter.
wasnt there a comic con years ago, where he talked about the intro chapter of winds of winter, and then he told the audience, he is closer to finish dream of spring than winds of winter?
I think it really depends on three things:
1-Wether he is stuck on some aspect of the story again wich it could be possible but as the video sais it is less likely, than on winds, feast dance and winds were the middle part of the story were it expanded the most, and he had to scrap a huge concept of this middle part( 5 year gap) that affected the story as a hall and it's many moving parts, bu the second part of winds the story is coming together there are still thousands of pages and the possibility to be stuck but not on this level.
2- Wether hbo pushes him to write fb part 2 or more dunk and egg novels, it is possible and from a a tv show platform the blackfire rebellions miggt be the most promissing, but contary to when martin wrote the first volume there a lot of other spinoff possiblities, writting fire and blood part 2 earlier would be a question of preference preference for a spinoff option not of lack of options, alsobwe have to consider that of they want to build a huge cinematografic universe and not just do 1 or 3 spinoffs, they might want to keep some of the best stories for the future, delaying fire and blood part 2 is also a good way for martin to increase the odds of a Jahaerys and Alysane spinoff wich he wants but hbo is not convinced, martin could also split fb in three, he had already 200 pages last year, reaching the end of the first blackfyre rebellion and begining of dunk and and egg wouldn't be a big deal, then there are the dunk and egg stories, if he tries to do all of them for the tv show before dream it might be problem, but the actors will still need to grow older so really the only urgent story to write is the dornish adventure if they intend to do one story for each season as is the plan now, at worst he might do the dornish adventure, the village hero and she wolves.
3-his age, not a nice topic to talk about but a factor
With the current pace he is on and the writers strike preventing from distracting to much I think we might have winds by the end of 2024 or begining of 2025, them probrably we will have the dornsih adventure of dunk an egg, and then he will go back to dream while hbo adapts the reigns of Aegon to Jahaerys and the first dunk and egg stories, maybe he does one or two additional dunk and egg stories before ending dream
at this point, I hope he leaves enough notes to mark out the endgame of the plot so that some talented writer can pick it up and finish the series after he's gone.
I came to terms with the fact that he won’t release any more ASOIAF books about 5 or 6 years ago. Nothing that has happened since then has changed my mind. He wrote himself into a corner with far too many plot threads that he can’t possibly tie up. If he wanted to, he could of finished the book years ago. He hasn’t released ASOIAF book since July 12, 2011. That is inexcusable, it doesn’t take 12 years to write a book.
I don't think it has anything to do with how he wrote the story so far, or fan pressure or what not. The progress all halted the moment the tv show began, and that's the real reason why we never saw another book. Fan pressure might be annoying, but how many fans have direct access to the man? Nope, it's HBO wanting to pump out infinite content based on his work who have caused this unending stall.
Short answer…no.
I feel that both books are already finished,he'll release them back to back sometime in the next 2 years
Simple answer before I start the vid: no.
It's seems like winds will soon be on the horizon... you sweet summer child.
He will totally finish and publish the last two books just like Lucasfilm will fire Kathleen Kennedy.
Fun fact. People die. No clue why it’s considered so uncomfortable or taboo to discuss the possibility of someone dying before completing their life’s work.
Not likely
we can dream that we will get it
Optimistic thinking
I believe that the reason he didn't release winds yet, is because he is working on a dream of spring as well.
Perhaps even accidentally. We know he's written chapters that he's later set aside for the next novel already (Feast For Crows going into Dance With Dragons).
Idk, he's been very involved in projects from the first show, to HotD, to elden ring. I feel like he's still trying to set up Dream in Winds without making it seemed rushed
I don't know about Dreams, but the writer's strike for one thing is sure gonna be great for Winds. GRRM won't be busy attending meetings with tv show writers.
He has been attending the strikes though lmao.
I'm hoping that they give Folio Society a copy before Winds of Wnter is published to get the next copy hopefully in 2025.
We're into 2024, let's see how it go's.
I think hes sitting on the last 2 books, he basically got a test run thanks to show and he knows what he wants, when he thinks time is right they will be released
Preston Jacobs fan fiction chapters are great. Feels like written by the man himself.
@pyropulse7932It's a collaborative effort of ASOIAF/1000 Worlds super fans-both writers and editors-who obsess over every ounce of the source material, its themes, and capturing George's literary voice.
It would be more absurd to presume George is a mystical, magical unicorn whose writing style and abilities are beyond the comprehension of mere mortals.
He's not. His themes have been consistent since the beginning. His major plot points are mostly recycled, if not already seen by millions of viewers years ago. His modern voice could easily be duplicated by some learning AI at this point.
As to "no discernment"...really? Would discerning the drastic stylistic shift from Thrones to Dance somehow be a lack of discernment since it's same author?
It's fine not to like the direction they've taken, it's absurd to think other people enjoying the project are deranged
@pyropulse7932 "Everyone who enjoys this fan project is an infidel who lacks discernment because I subscribe to authorial intent and George being a fairy princess writes the precisely satisfactory word of god whenever the fuck he gets around to it and themes are for 8th grade book reports and no one can have at this party *something something unnecessary semicolon something something whilst* ..."
I'm with you, WOW!
I have no confidence that George will finish The Winds of Winter, let alone A Dream of Spring.
Winter may be coming but I'm afraid the same cannot be said about Winds of Winter (let alone A Dream of Spring)
We won't unless he changes his mind about not letting anyone write the books after him and him wanting the manuscripts burns.
He seems like a insufferable C*nt to do that
No😥
I don't care what anyone says, I am never giving up hope for reading ADOS, ever.
I don't think we'll get it but I dont mind so much. Set up the Endgame. Give us resolutions to the battles, get Jon and Danerys together, reveal at the end his Targaryan blood and see her go crazy in private.
Pls, I just want to bathe in Bolton blood before I die
If Winds of Winter were to be released in 2024, the publisher would be taking pre-release orders imo. At this point, I no longer have hope
This is a pretty special case, though. GRRM mentioned in some interview a few years ago that his publisher kept everything on standby and was ready to publish it within three months if he just delivered the book, so I'm guessing they'd be going for something similar now.
@@perlundgren7797 GRRM has been saying that for years. At this point his "words are wind"
@@bgross685 Why would he lie about his publisher wanting to get it out quickly? I'm not saying it will be out soon - just that I doubt we'll see them taking pre-orders up to 1,5 year in advance.
@@perlundgren7797 Why does GRRM keep saying he is close to getting the manuscript to the publisher? Been saying it for just about 10 years. GRRM has periodically given updates and said he was just about done and he's lied about that. At this point, anything GRRM says doesn't have much credibility. Besides him saying that he's taken on a new HBO project or going on vacation; that I believe
@@bgross685 We all know how well his predictions have worked out. Is that somehow related to how far ahead the publisher will start taking pre-orders when/if it's finally released?
He should just let chatGPT write it at this point. I'm so glad I never got invested in the books. Being as invested as I was in the show (and ALL the fan theories between seasons!) was already a waste of years of my life. I'd be super-pissed if I had sunk even MORE time into the book series knowing we will never get a real ending to the story, which for show watchers would be for the SECOND time. If GRRM was serious about finishing ASOIAF he'd have quit going off on tangents doing minor projects (and even finishing *whole other books* - ahem Fire & Blood) to get the last two books out years ago. His health is obviously poor, for whatever he's been doing with his wealth he hasn't used it to take care of his body. At the very least, he needed to get over his pride and ask for help, but he seems like the kind of man that is convinced nobody could possibly understand his thinking and insists if he doesn't write it, no one should. Sooo I'm done with the ASOIAF story. You can say it's GRRM's prerogative not to finish his series, but it's also my prerogative not to give his work any more of my time or money. At this rate, AI actually WILL finish the series for him before he ever gets around to it... if he even lives long enough.
I really believe he needs to embrace a writing group. George has the final say and the overall outline, but he needs help. His baby has grown into a colossal monster and it's too big for 1 man.
unlikely he can not seem to finish the last one ffs
"George has had this ending in mind for decades" - i don't think he had any idea how it will end when he wrote the first books. He said many times he writes like a "gardener" not like an "architect", most times he has no idea what exactly will grow from the seed. he knows it's a vegetable but what exactly that is he doesn't know and doesn't want to know... this would explain the struggle to end it because the story is so vast that it's very hard to tie up all the threads into a great ending
Writing like a gardener vs architect isn't what you're talking about. Anyone that's writing has the story in their mind, beginning, middle, AND end. It's the middle that takes foreeevvvver to slog through writing, but the "he's hand the ending in his mind" I believe 100%.
@@lomaudit9674 Nope. I write and I FREQUENTLY have no ending in mind.
It's truly sad that the Greatest novel ever written, will not have an ending.
The Long Night will continue forever.
Winter will never come.
And Spring will always be a Dream.
Ya know I’ve held out hope for years and years and years since around 2015 when I finished the books. And ya know after the disaster of s8 and after over 12 years later from the last book. I kinda just give up, it’s clear George doesn’t have the same passion for the story anymore. It’s truly sad we’ll never get a true ending to one of the most amazing stories ever told.
Holding season 8 of the TV show against him and the books is just petty and silly.
I've always been of the opinion that if George can finish The Winds of Winter, then he'll have the hardest part of the finale out of the way and A Dream of Spring will be easier. It still might take years, but definitely not a decade and possibly under 5 years.
I sadly don't believe he will finish A Dream Of Spring unless he lets someone help him co author it.
which wont happen he said himself if HE does not finish it thats it
Remember, HBO gave us the only ending to this story we will ever get.
Winds of Winter isn't even come so you keep dreaming of spring bud.
Let me get this str8. Winds of winter is game of thrones the series but not finished? And a dream of spring is a sequel after everything ?
He doesn't want to finish the series because not only would his life work be done, he'd be done as well.
He's so stubborn that he won't finish fhe books but doesn't want anyone else to finish it for him too. I just dont understand this man
it'll come out after a The Doors of Stone does, or maybe after The Thorn of Emberlain comes out!
At his age and the speed he writes it’ll never get done. Even Winds of Winter is iffy.
I'd love him to finish his books and live another 20 years!! But being realistic, it would also be nice if someone could write the remaining of the last book of the series, and quite sad if the series remains incomplete after all those decades. Maybe Brandon Sanderson? hahah at least he has experience finishing other people's work and is prolific writer, seems like a good option. I'm longing for Martin to change his mind about it.
Pretty sure Sanderson’s gone on record as saying A Song of Ice and Fire isn’t really his thing.
Calling it now, Winds never comes out.
You got it wrong. Winds definitely is coming out. Dream, never coming out
@@animatedink2529 Dude it’s been 12 years, if someone can’t finish a book in that time idk what to say
@@Ammoniumbicarbonat (in Jaime Lannister’s voice) “…there’s still time…”
When winds didn’t have a firm release date after the 2020 lockdowns, I basically gave up hope on the books releasing.
Unless he is writing both book simultaneously, its safe to say it will never be released.
I am optimistic. I feel like it will be way easier to write compared to winds of winter. I do hope george takes care of his health though. Dude is getting really old.
It is possible that George is working on both books simultaneously, dividing up the material between them as and when he has it. And the reason he doesn’t want to release Winds before both books are finished is that something may later crop up in Dream that would require him to go back and change something in Winds, which he couldn’t do if the book was already published. He has already given himself that problem at least once by killing off a character who he later realised he needed and couldn’t go back and remove his death from the series because it had happened in a book that was already published. It makes sense not to risk repeating that mistake.
That’s how I’d do it, anyway.
i mean it is possible and i would not blame him for not publicly saying he's doing this. As to weather he is, i used to think that's what he was doing but seeing how it's been so long since dance, i can't see a world where is publisher would be okay with the current situation. I think what is more likely and why i think if we get winds we get dream is winds seems to be the trickier book to write, bringing all the plot threads together, where dream should be wrapping it up with a ending he's known about for a long time, so now days i tend to sit in the camp that if we get winds, dream will be an easier book to write and maybe a quicker book to write.
He just said he's still at 1,100 manuscript pages for winds, which is exactly where he was a year ago at this time. There's no timetable for Winds at all, at this point, let alone Dream. I believe Dream is not begun and will be even harder to write for him, since Winds will have taken him in all likelihood over 15 years to write.
I am very sceptical the book will come out and if it will I would be double suprised him actually finishing the whole thing. Maybe.. just maybe he have come into realization of why not writing it when nobody seems to be interested in his screenplays, he might be an immaculate writer when given the time, but in hollywood you have to be Fast. Some crazy good scripts even for a series season have been written in couple months, like for The White Lotus. It isn't neccesarily the standard to be that quick but you cannot take forever. Also he clearly just cannot make anything good fast.
Ok so interest in him have faded all around in many sense. Maybe he likes the attention and have actually continued the books for also not having nothing to do. I don't bet too much on it tho that he would be further than couple chapters if that. Started some pages and drafts.
People who say he have no obligation to write the books if he wants now to just live the rest of his days as a rich man. Yes sure, true. He still is an ahole when he have posted/said so..soo many times estimations/dates of the release. That's an insult to the fans if you cannot stop doing that at what, after some fifht time. It's aholish for the fans and his publishers. Remember when the two books was promised for HBO to be ready before they catch up and that was S04 when they did, used half and half of his material and own in S05, if that. He quite literally didn't write anything during that time.
No. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
I bet it's 2,500 pages of Hodor.