Shadespire has been one of the best competitive experiences I have had over the past year. It is an unbelievable system, and I’m so excited for Year 2!!!
I guess the minis are pretty fragile, but you have to remember this is based on a tabletop war gaming system. Most hobbyists (including myself) consider those nighthaunt models to be phenomenal in terms of the sense of movement they convey. To them, aesthetics are far more important than the durability of the models. When you've spent hours painting them you store them carefully anyway, regardless of whether they have vulnerable parts or not. It's all part of the hobby, and I believe this game is meant to be a gateway to the main hobby. They want you to be impressed with how great the models look, maybe try painting them and end up getting hooked that way! If the models were chunky and ugly, it wouldn't work.
Sam, do you see any balance concerns or do you feel a season one team can hold its own without spells? Obviously it's a bit early to know for certain, just looking for your impression so far.
Spells are just new ploys, should be pretty balanced considering the randomization the dice provide. Of course we will only truly know once we've played lot's of games, which GW should have done during play testing.
Agreed! It wouldn't even be hard to do. Just like the Leader pack, have Magic pack to upgrade your Shadespire warbands with spells or release a series of upgrades, ploys or gambits that allow for magic use.
@@LeeroyPorkins yes they are all part of the Stormcast Eternals faction BUT each warband is separate, cannot be combined, and has a different playstyle.
They could do that for some factions, but for example: Khorne despises magic and refuses to use it. Also the only Stormcast models that know how to use magic are from the Sacrosanct Chamber, in other words the guys from this set.
They don't, none of the older shadespire warbands have magic users/wizards or anything of the sort. Not every warband needs to be able to use magic...especially anything khorne related. I'd still like to see some warbands just be bashy/ or shooty and not use magic.
Man I wish they made a co-op/solo expansion for this game. I'd end up buying everything knowing it doesn't matter if nobody plays in my local area or practice different decks in preparation for tournaments. 😊
@@CesarIsaacPerez There's Chess apps. You could easily play the app and move the physical components for them. As for card games, even the new Warhammer Champions CCG has an app with AI sp you can practice with your decks. I'm afraid this game isn't gateway enough for me to keep on the shelf for family and too expensive an investment for something I might not be able to find someone to play with.
@E Lowe Why? I'm not saying they should change the game at all, just make a digital version that we could play against. I'd pay to have that option for solo and highly competitive people could practice their decks for tournaments if they wanted to.
Since every kill gives a victory point, thats actually a disadvantage for the 7, since they can give up 7 VPs from death, and the 3 guys can only give up 3. Playing larger armies in this game is usually a bit harder, but balance is pretty decent.
@@sotall650 now I have the game. It is pretty balanced if we change the decks a bit. I gotta say it is fantastic game but the luck can change the experience:(
It does work together. In fact the Nightvault set will need cards from the Shadespire set if you want to have a ton of deck variety and maximize competitive play.
I really would love to own Underworlds. I borrowed it from my local library and loved it but I don't wanna put minis together. Why do companies do this?
I understand where you are coming from, but keep in mind that miniature building is part of the hobby that games-workshop promotes. Is initself, a game for the people that enjoy it and not a chore you have to do to be able to play the board game. Try it and see if you enjoy it, it's, in my opinion a very relaxing and enjoyable experience, specially the painting.
I am honestly astonished that in the age of loot box controversies such blatant Pay-to-Win as WH:Underworlds gets a free pass. The premise was great and I succumbed to the "new GW" marketing and gave it a try, but it seems to have the same downfalls as other GW games - a lot of randomness, heavy imbalance due to the pay-to-win model. Basically I evaluate the quality of such games by asking a question - can a better player have an advantage and win even with an inferior army (or in this case-deck) and less luck in dice ? Can his superior tactics trump those disadvantages? If yes - that's a good game for me (Warmachine works like that and that's why it's my wargame of choice, I've heard similar opinions about Guild Ball as well) I tried both casual and tournament play with WU:S and there was little player agency during your turns - moves were rather obvious and dictated by what cards you bought/have drawn and the randomly drawn secret objectives and opposing rolls+critical success mechanics made it even less predictable/player dependant. The cinematic, decisive moments were less like "Wow, that was a really creative, smart move we never saw coming" and more like "Wow, I drew a set of really strong cards at the right moment" It was ok in the 80's/90's but not in the today's board game market with examples of outstanding design left and right. Just compare it with the heavily tactical movement/combat/exhaustion system from Gloomhaven.
I agree with you in theory. But since you can get everything in the Shadespire and Underworld range for less than a small Warhammer army i don't really see the pay2win problem. And i actually hope that they bring out expansion packs for existing factions.
In a casual setting, where players use a single core set together, I advise trying out the following solution. Every band gets a number of their own faction cards in their deck ( for example 6 or 7) and the rest is completed from a collective deck of non-faction specific cards via a drafting system. So for example an Orc and a Stormcast player both start with 7 faction-specific objectives and from all the other common objectives thrown together they each draw 13 cards, choose one, and pass the rest to the other player, continuing this until they end up with a 20 card objective deck each. It's a pity those cards don't have a points cost, like models in a wargaming army. Even if those values were imbalanced like in other GW games, it would lessen the Pay to Win feel (now the only cost better cards have is in money). I'd also advise to try out playing with visible objectives. With those players can actually consciously and tactically play to stop the enemy from achieveing his/her objectives instead of blindly flailing around to learn that they accidentally stopped an objective from being achieved or helped achieve one totally by chance.
@@IdlestHands i think that he is referring to the business model in which the game company needs to make new content more powerful inorder to make it make it sell as much as possible. And sure. That is a problem with high cost games. But i would never see this as a problem with low cost games. It's just something you have to deal with in order to keep the game financed and alive.
Cards in this game are not created equally- some are useless, some very strong - and they don't have a balancing factor, like points value. Expansions have new, universal cards which can increase the power of your deck, no matter which faction you play. So a person who commits to more expenses (buying multiple bands for more powerful cards to add to their deck) will have an unfair (paid) advantage over a person who has bought fewer expansions and doesn't have access to certain powerful cards.
Shadespire has been one of the best competitive experiences I have had over the past year. It is an unbelievable system, and I’m so excited for Year 2!!!
I guess the minis are pretty fragile, but you have to remember this is based on a tabletop war gaming system. Most hobbyists (including myself) consider those nighthaunt models to be phenomenal in terms of the sense of movement they convey. To them, aesthetics are far more important than the durability of the models. When you've spent hours painting them you store them carefully anyway, regardless of whether they have vulnerable parts or not. It's all part of the hobby, and I believe this game is meant to be a gateway to the main hobby. They want you to be impressed with how great the models look, maybe try painting them and end up getting hooked that way! If the models were chunky and ugly, it wouldn't work.
i own both SHadespire and Nightvault and all the factions. We play picking up 2 factions and 2 boards each player! its epic :)
7:20 differences btw shadespire and nightvault.
Thanks for the review Sam, really looking forward to this one.
I went and checked this out at my local Warhammer Store today. Preordered on the spot. Can't wait for it to arrive. It looks awesome.
Sam, do you see any balance concerns or do you feel a season one team can hold its own without spells? Obviously it's a bit early to know for certain, just looking for your impression so far.
Spells are just new ploys, should be pretty balanced considering the randomization the dice provide. Of course we will only truly know once we've played lot's of games, which GW should have done during play testing.
They need to release cards to update Shadespire factions to include magic and gambits, etc.
Agreed! It wouldn't even be hard to do. Just like the Leader pack, have Magic pack to upgrade your Shadespire warbands with spells or release a series of upgrades, ploys or gambits that allow for magic use.
But are the two Blue Factions (Don't really know WH Lore) from the same group?
@@LeeroyPorkins yes they are all part of the Stormcast Eternals faction BUT each warband is separate, cannot be combined, and has a different playstyle.
They could do that for some factions, but for example: Khorne despises magic and refuses to use it. Also the only Stormcast models that know how to use magic are from the Sacrosanct Chamber, in other words the guys from this set.
They don't, none of the older shadespire warbands have magic users/wizards or anything of the sort. Not every warband needs to be able to use magic...especially anything khorne related. I'd still like to see some warbands just be bashy/ or shooty and not use magic.
Sounds like this might have a strong showing on the Top 100 this year. I've been absolutely absorbed by Underworlds since being introduced to it.
My brother got this game and I wish to buy him an expansion for it, as a Christmas present, any recommendations on what I can get him?:)
Man I wish they made a co-op/solo expansion for this game. I'd end up buying everything knowing it doesn't matter if nobody plays in my local area or practice different decks in preparation for tournaments. 😊
I don't think that's possible... this game is more like chess or magic the gathering. Not really story or event driven, it's just a fight.
@@CesarIsaacPerez There's Chess apps. You could easily play the app and move the physical components for them.
As for card games, even the new Warhammer Champions CCG has an app with AI sp you can practice with your decks.
I'm afraid this game isn't gateway enough for me to keep on the shelf for family and too expensive an investment for something I might not be able to find someone to play with.
@E Lowe Why?
I'm not saying they should change the game at all, just make a digital version that we could play against.
I'd pay to have that option for solo and highly competitive people could practice their decks for tournaments if they wanted to.
For new comer should i go straight to Nightvault or start with Shadespire
Nightvault.
Will Shadespire still be produced? I read on BGG that they were going to stop printing the first core set
No, it'll be discontinued. But the factions from the core set will be released separately and you can already buy the boards on their own.
@@CesarIsaacPerez Thanks, now I know what's next on my list.
Traditionally, if a plastic weapon was droopy, you would put it in boiling water and then straighten it when it was soft.
For some reason I don't hear Sam in this video but David Cross. Very strange. lol.
I’m not a warhammer tabletop gamer but I might pick this up. I got some Skyrim homies who might get on board.
So is this separate from shadespire?
Sam here...it is a separate core set, yes, but it is compatible with Shadespire warbands, and vice versa.
@@thedicetower thank you sir
Sequel. 100% compatible expansion.
i'm assuming this is compatible with Shadespire?
666kingdrummer 1
100% Compatible.
@@Merrigooner Thabk you for answering this question.
I was going to get into Shadespire but not if it's not going to be supported anymore.
It's just an expansion, but the new core set it replacing the old core set.
You sure they are balanced? 3 versus 7 is just makes me afraid. I never played a single warhammer game so I dont know about balancing system.
Since every kill gives a victory point, thats actually a disadvantage for the 7, since they can give up 7 VPs from death, and the 3 guys can only give up 3. Playing larger armies in this game is usually a bit harder, but balance is pretty decent.
@@sotall650 now I have the game. It is pretty balanced if we change the decks a bit. I gotta say it is fantastic game but the luck can change the experience:(
Sick new intro music
New? This has been Sam's intro for quite some time.
If this doesn't work with Shadespire I'm not going to get.
It does work together. In fact the Nightvault set will need cards from the Shadespire set if you want to have a ton of deck variety and maximize competitive play.
I really would love to own Underworlds. I borrowed it from my local library and loved it but I don't wanna put minis together. Why do companies do this?
I understand where you are coming from, but keep in mind that miniature building is part of the hobby that games-workshop promotes. Is initself, a game for the people that enjoy it and not a chore you have to do to be able to play the board game. Try it and see if you enjoy it, it's, in my opinion a very relaxing and enjoyable experience, specially the painting.
I am honestly astonished that in the age of loot box controversies such blatant Pay-to-Win as WH:Underworlds gets a free pass.
The premise was great and I succumbed to the "new GW" marketing and gave it a try, but it seems to have the same downfalls as other GW games - a lot of randomness, heavy imbalance due to the pay-to-win model. Basically I evaluate the quality of such games by asking a question - can a better player have an advantage and win even with an inferior army (or in this case-deck) and less luck in dice ? Can his superior tactics trump those disadvantages? If yes - that's a good game for me (Warmachine works like that and that's why it's my wargame of choice, I've heard similar opinions about Guild Ball as well)
I tried both casual and tournament play with WU:S and there was little player agency during your turns - moves were rather obvious and dictated by what cards you bought/have drawn and the randomly drawn secret objectives and opposing rolls+critical success mechanics made it even less predictable/player dependant. The cinematic, decisive moments were less like "Wow, that was a really creative, smart move we never saw coming" and more like "Wow, I drew a set of really strong cards at the right moment"
It was ok in the 80's/90's but not in the today's board game market with examples of outstanding design left and right. Just compare it with the heavily tactical movement/combat/exhaustion system from Gloomhaven.
I agree with you in theory. But since you can get everything in the Shadespire and Underworld range for less than a small Warhammer army i don't really see the pay2win problem. And i actually hope that they bring out expansion packs for existing factions.
In a casual setting, where players use a single core set together, I advise trying out the following solution. Every band gets a number of their own faction cards in their deck ( for example 6 or 7) and the rest is completed from a collective deck of non-faction specific cards via a drafting system.
So for example an Orc and a Stormcast player both start with 7 faction-specific objectives and from all the other common objectives thrown together they each draw 13 cards, choose one, and pass the rest to the other player, continuing this until they end up with a 20 card objective deck each.
It's a pity those cards don't have a points cost, like models in a wargaming army. Even if those values were imbalanced like in other GW games, it would lessen the Pay to Win feel (now the only cost better cards have is in money).
I'd also advise to try out playing with visible objectives. With those players can actually consciously and tactically play to stop the enemy from achieveing his/her objectives instead of blindly flailing around to learn that they accidentally stopped an objective from being achieved or helped achieve one totally by chance.
Could you explain how the game is "Pay to win"?
@@IdlestHands i think that he is referring to the business model in which the game company needs to make new content more powerful inorder to make it make it sell as much as possible. And sure. That is a problem with high cost games. But i would never see this as a problem with low cost games. It's just something you have to deal with in order to keep the game financed and alive.
Cards in this game are not created equally- some are useless, some very strong - and they don't have a balancing factor, like points value. Expansions have new, universal cards which can increase the power of your deck, no matter which faction you play.
So a person who commits to more expenses (buying multiple bands for more powerful cards to add to their deck) will have an unfair (paid) advantage over a person who has bought fewer expansions and doesn't have access to certain powerful cards.