Why Are Gender Neutral Pronouns Controversial?
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- Опубликовано: 19 май 2024
- Gender pronouns are small but controversial words - especially when it comes to gender identity. Myles digs into the history of gender pronouns and asks: why do they matter?
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** What are pronouns in the English language?
They are these little words we use to replace the words for people’s names, places, or things. Which are NOUNS. Pronouns are the terms people choose to refer to themselves that reflect their gender identity. The most commonly used these days are he/him, she/her, or gender-neutral pronouns such as they/them.
** How do pronouns relate to gender identity?
When it comes to pronouns to identify a person, we get into identity and that’s where things get complex - and, often political. The big thing personal pronouns often signal is someone’s gender identity. According to scientists, gender isn’t a rigid he/she binary rooted in the sex a person was assigned at birth. Biology and culture BOTH influence our identity, which can be fluid. That means it’s not carved in stone and can change - and it can also be a spectrum. And gender’s not something anyone can ascribe to you- it’s each person’s internal sense of how they personally identify.
**What is transgender?
Some people don’t always identify with the sex they were assigned at birth, or the gender pronouns others use to describe them. Often these folks identify themselves as transgender. They may have been assigned female or male but may not identify with that label.
**What is the opposition to gender-neutral pronouns all about?
There is a LOT of resistance to using gender-neutral pronouns. In fact, according to Pew Research, almost half of all Americans say they feel “somewhat or very uncomfortable” using they/them pronouns. And the level of discomfort has a lot to do with age, and where you fall on the political spectrum. A common excuse you may see out there is that using “they/them” to describe individual people is “poor grammar.” This isn’t technically correct - people use they/them to describe singular people all the time. As in, “Who parked their car here? They did a terrible job.”
**What is the history of gender-neutral pronouns?
There is a long history of people inventing gender-neutral pronouns. One linguist found more than 250 proposed gender-neutral pronouns going back the last few centuries. Examples include “hiser” (1850), “thon” (1858). “ze” (1888) and “hir” (1930) and “ve” (1970). And in 1850, the British Parliament passed a law that the pronoun “He” must be used to describe people of ALL genders. Most of these older language norms have fallen into disuse - but it’s important to note that language is always evolving to reflect new social norms.
**Why is it important to respect which pronouns people want to use?
Two words: safety and respect. Pronouns signal to the world our gender identity, and part of respecting each other’s humanity is honoring how we all identify.
SOURCES
www.npr.org/2021/06/02/996319...
www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-o...
www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...
www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/201...
/ pronouns-have-always-b...
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00:00 - Intro
01:27 - What Are Pronouns?
01:47 - Gender Identity
02:36 - Two-Spirit Identity
03:06 - Resistance to using gender-neutral pronouns
04:07 - History of gender-neutral pronouns
06:16 - Politics of pronouns
#pronouns #pride #lgbtq
How do you feel about language evolving over time to reflect cultural and political changes in society? And, of course, please keep your comments respectful. We will remove any comments that are hateful, or discriminatory against an individual or group. Thank you!
In other words you will censor the truth
@YourGod Blows he's the one claiming censorship
@@richardbeckmann6720 „truth“
As a student of literature, I was always "miffed" that in the texts people used to (and unfortunately still do) use the word "man" to say humans. It's easy to just say humans, no? That's what I think. As for pronouns, I've taught myself (and it was a painful learning curve for me since I am of the older generation) "they" when I don't know. If the person tells me what they prefer, I use that pronoun. Language is fluid and changes and that's a fact. So we should roll with the changes I think instead of trying to hold on to a past that is unequal and biased. Thank you for this video because I always learn something new from the younger generation.
It’s definitely not something we learned about when we first were taught english. For example, I remember being taught that documents should always have two spaces between a period and the start of a new sentence - and now I feel foolish for even remembering that!
It’s frustrating how rigid the English language is sometimes because in my language (Thai) the pronouns are very fluid. The feminine pronoun could be use on masculine person and vice versa. There’s no definite rules how to use them and people get very creative. There’re many neutral pronouns to choose from as well and our pronouns are less about gender in general . The downside is that these could only use in speaking but not writing, and there’s a lot of class, seniority and politeness to consider. It’s another beast of problem in itself.
But don't you have to constantly indicate your own gender in Thai when speaking, with krub and ka? Is there a gender neutral variant for that? Or are Thai nonbinary people just doomed to always sound impolite?
(I actually barely know any Thai and could be super duper wrong)
@@ryn2844
In Finland we don't have gendered pronouns at all. Everyone is "hän" (he/she/whatever else).
In fact nothing's gendered in the Finnish language.
What multiple pronouns do you mean? I spoke only Thai in my childhood but don't live there anymore, and have been wondering how it would work if I went back now.
@@FINNSTIGAT0R So in other words, yes, you do have to specify everyone you're talking about in every situation. Way to ignore the question.
@@user-lv5rd6kb5o
Actually no. I very rarely have to specify the gender of anyone I'm speaking about. It may be odd to some, but the gender of a person is not always at all relevant, but if it is, then it might be separately said. Also I can throw in the person's first name as as a clue, since Finnish names are rarely gender neutral.
I use he/him and would feel uncomfortable if someone insisted on using she/her to refer to me. The likely hood of that happening is very low, I am a cisgender man and am very masculine appearing. It also wouldn't have the emotional weight of having spent years living with another gender identity forced on me. I may not have those experiences, but I can empathize with others enough to see how it would be hurtful for me to refuse to use the pronouns or name they identify with.
Thanks for your empathy.
If you don't personally know somebody how are you supposed to know what they identify as?
@@richardbeckmann6720 if you don't personally know someone then you can use gender neutral pronouns until you learn theirs, just like you would do if you don't know the identity of a person being discussed. If you see a phone someone left behind, and are unsure of the owner, you're probably more likely to ask, "who left their phone here," than you are to ask, "who left his phone here?"
This is also why it's important to normalize sharing of pronouns, as much as sharing of pronouns. We should stop assuming a person's pronouns just like we would never just assume a person's name. And just like names, if we get it wrong don't make a big deal about it, and definitely don't insist on using the wrong one. Just apologize, move on, and do better.
@@Platypi007 I use pronouns based on how I see the appearance of a person
@@richardbeckmann6720 do you also refer to people by whatever name pops into your head based on their appearance?
My pronouns are they/he!
I'm genderfluid, and honestly sometimes I present pretty feminine, which confuses alot of people.. but I dont mind it. I see myself as a genderless being who sometimes fades into a more masculine, or more feminine side of myself. The fact that I have people in my life who refer to me with my prefered pronouns, just makes me so happy.
We all deserve this simple show of respect.
u can be more masculine and more feminine depending on ur mood, sure. why does that have to affect what gender you are and what pronouns you use? can't you just like the things you like and dress however you want as a person?
@@paeridolia I see your confusion... and I can say you bring up a good point.. but honestly... FOR ME, I am genderfluid.. It's not that I feel more masculine or feminine.. it's that I'm constantly changing how I want people to perceive me. I generally want people to perceive me as genderless.. (that's what happens to be the most common gender.. or lack of... that I feel) but sometimes I really want people to see me as male or female.. I experience both sides of the gender binary in my brain. I have had friends of mine gage if it's a masc or fem day, not by my clothes.. but by my actions.. I wish I could say "OOP!! I'm not genderfluid!!" Sometimes and just stick with my AGAB, but honestly I want people to perceive the least when my gender swings that way. I'm comfortable sticking with this label because it describes my experiences the best FOR ME. For other people, they may assign one of the demi genders on me, or just go with the broad terms trans or nonbinary, but this is how I've defined myself.
@@AboveTheNoise No. This "simple show of respect" is not going to come while there are Biological Men in Women's Sports and Prisons. Trans can have their own.
I mean, where was this "simple show of respect" regarding the Christian Private Bakers? How I'm I suppose to show this "simple respect" when we keep saying do not use this "Latinx" term. Yet, we get ignored and disrespected.
You simply can't just request or demand respect while you screw up and call names to everyone else at every turn.
@@riversdelta9859 The keyword in your reply, and the problem with society today is, "I Want". That's nice that you want people to see you as, this or as that, but the fact is most people were born male or female. The only true gender fluid people would be true hermaphrodites. other than that it's just people wanting something that is not the truth. I want to be identified as the president. it would really make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside if everyone considered me to be the president and allowed me the privilege to occupy the White House since this is how I feel. if you think that sounds insane that is exactly how people that want to be identified as a woman who were born a man in insist they should be allowed to play in women's sports sound.
I am cis male. I use "he" pronouns in English, and "él" in Spanish. In my first language, Tagalog, thankfully the concept of grammatical gender is nonexistent as with many Austronesian Languages. So any person regardless of gender or sex gets to be referred to the gender neutral pronoun "siya" in singular and "sila" in plural.
When I first learned English and Spanish, I was right that they're some of the *weirdest* languages out there. Only around a quarter of all the languages of the world have grammatical gender in their language structures. English is only my second language, so funny enough, it was actually difficult for me switching specific pronouns for different people. Even my mother, who speaks 4 languages, still makes mistakes with specific pronouns in English. Sometimes she use "she" to refer to me. Ask a Spanish and German speaker how to describe an inanimate object, say a bridge, a chair, a gun, or a ship. One language says it is feminine, but the other will say it is masculine. Languages with grammatical gender are just damn *weird*
As a Filipino, I agree.
English has a habit of stealing words from other languages, and imo stealing siya and sila would be a great idea.
@@seanhayes2998 That won't be necessary considering English has several neutral pronouns already like the ones that were just mentioned in the video: ze, em, hir, thon, and so on. All still English.
@@BaraJFDA no not necessary, but sometimes advantageous to inject a bit of mystique. Look at the word Sensei. Absolutely no need to borrow it, as English already has a functioning equivalent, but it sounds cool. And by admission none of the newly minted words have gained much traction. OTH I don’t have anything invested either way. 😁
@@seanhayes2998 Words cannot be stolen, as nobody owns them, this was just a reminder in case you actually think languages can steal words. No way of knowing nowadays if people actually literally mean things like word stealing.
There is certainly cognitive dissonance between how some people use third person pronouns these days and how I am used to using them. Unlinking the concepts of gender identity, gender presentation, and sex was easy for me. Unlinking sex from pronoun use and exclusively linking gender identity to pronouns will be much more difficult. Although, I think I could adapt given enough time. The English language has shifted before and it can shift again.
"The English language has shifted before and it can shift again."
Has it shifted through LEGAL MANDATE before?
I used to be That Guy complaining about they/them pronouns introducing confusion in conversation, and I still find it confuses me about subjects and objects sometimes. But the clincher is, not dictating someone's gender to them is more important than perfect clarity about individual vs. group. Also, with non-binary folks, I've found I tend to use their actual names more, which I think is great.
nonbinary people would appreaciate you use their pronouns. What you think is great may not be all that great. (not angry just saying it). not using a trans persons pronouns is not kind.
@@toastice2465 gender affirmation is important but I think names can help. My friends are in a queer relationship and it can be useful to specify who is who in conversation using their names, otherwise things get impossible since they have the same gender identity
There's no such thing as a none binary human.
@@neuroptera well yes of course, but ONLY using names is just ignoring part of who they are.
@toastice you make a good point. I have a hard time with names in general, so when I say "great" I might mean good for me, which is pretty selfish. Anyway, I appreciate the feedback.
My sibling has recently came out as gender non-conforming, and I support them completely. But, I've been having a hard time getting used to using they/them, is there any suggestions for getting used to it? I can use them in text, but when I'm talking about them I mess up, and I'm worried they are going to be angry at me if I mess up, and I really want to get it right.
First of all, thank you for being such a supportive sibling and doing your best. The fact that you are learning and trying is the most important thing. Making mistakes sometimes is part of that process. You can let them know you’re learning and practicing and apologize when you don’t get it quite right. Most people won’t get angry if they know you’re making a genuine effort. Practice and exposure is usually what helps. Here are some more tips: www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/14/janelle-monae-non-binary-pronouns-they-them
@@AboveTheNoise It's also kind of tricky because they aren't ready to come out to everyone in my family yet, so if I'm talking about them with those family members I need to use him/he, but other members they/them. I think it will be easier once they are ready to come out fully.
@@Duraputer it must mean a lot to them to have you there for support as they make the transition.
That's so great you're giving them that respect!
Really, I think it's just a matter of time. You'll get used to it after so long. There are stages, like maybe for a while you will overcorrect to their original pronouns because a part of your brain is assuming you're getting it wrong again.
I have a trans best friend and I think I just got outta that stage. But then there's still the pitfall of memories. Now I fully know and accept his pronouns, but when I think back to when we were kids I go back to that mindset and tend to mentally refer to him as her. Just simply because that's who I knew him as.
And yeah, I'm sure once they've fully come out to everyone you'll quickly acclimate completely. :)
Here's a great idea that worked for someone's dad, whenever you're in private and or until they come out, just think of them as a SWARM OF BEES!!! I know it sounds like a joke but it actually worked for someone's dad, or hey you could think that they exist as multiple clones of themselves at the same time doing the same things, that could work too lol. Either way, I'm very glad that you're supportive of them, a lot of people need that kind of attitude nowadays~... 🤗
Older citizen here. The idea is new and sails into uncharted territory for one of my era. BUT I know language is a living thing. And I know learning is something one should do their whole life...so
time for me to learn and grow and besides most of life is not black and white, most of it is gray. So if using a pronoun can help someone feel accepted then that is not too much to ask :)
👏👏👏 This comment makes me so happy. That’s why we do this work…just to try to help someone like you learn something and see the world from a slightly different point of view. Thank you for watching!
WE NEED MORE PEOPLE LIKE YOU
@@watercressfabrique3333 , why thank you (blushing), but I am just an 62 year old guy who wants to learn and understand people better. After all were on this big blue marble together and when we get along life just flows better :)
@@AboveTheNoise , No Thank you you did a fine job bringing understanding to the topic. I have friends (peers of my age 50's-60's) who lose their minds over this topic and really don't get it. To be fair they have never looked into the topic nor tried to see another point of view. I wanted to learn and maybe bring some light upon the topic to others, thus I came here... and ended up subscribing :)
@@Reason1717 that’s awesome! So glad you became a part of our community here! Thanks for sharing knowledge!
I wish the word "thonz" had caught on! 🤓 Other gender-neutral pronouns are also discussed over on the equally awesome channel Otherwords: ruclips.net/video/TMkXZ7cv1ik/видео.html
This was great, thank you. My pronouns are she/her, my oldest is they/them. The grammatical aspect was the most difficult for us, because there are some situations where it doesn’t sound right. But we are supportive and doing our best to get it right.
That’s what it’s all about! Learning from our mistakes and leaning into compassion. It’s hard to understand why so many people struggle with those two things.
Trans guy. 46. Came out 1.5 years ago. At first a change in my pronouns was low importance to me. I did it but it honestly didn't mean much. That has changed dramatically due largely to the people in my life and in public (such as healthcare professionals) who refuse to use he/him.
The misgendering through pronouns became a symbol to me of the discrimination and lack of acceptance that I've experienced. What started as a low priority issue has become ever more heated and important to me.
How has someone ever been discriminated against due to pronouns?
@@richardbeckmann6720 it is not the pronouns themselves, it is what they represent which is at issue. But it seems clear from your comments that you’re not open to hearing any perspectives, even from people who are living with this discrimination on a daily basis.
@@AboveTheNoise how are they being discriminated against?
@@AboveTheNoise I've still been waiting for your reply on how they have been discriminated against I take it that you're stumped and you have no reply?
@@richardbeckmann6720 actually, I’m finding it time consuming to respond to each and every assertion you have made in response to this one video and I’m trying to get to other comments across our whole channel. It’s kind of a big job, in addition to producing the show. But that said, I’m not sure how to respond because - where to begin? The queer community has faced discrimination and hate throughout human history, and they’ve also developed incredible resiliency and strong support. Like any marginalized identity, they’ve had to deal with laws and behavior that deny their core human rights. not sure why you need to be convinced of that, or what evidence you’re looking for - but I would say open your eyes, ears, and most importantly…your compassion.
It took me a bit to get used to it, but now I am extremely on board. It makes a ton of sense. Gender may be complicated, but I learned to see the value in how it can help us express something about ourselves that would be nice to see recognized by others. The explanation for gender that resonated the most for me is to think of it like a flavor: no traits are exclusive to any gender, but if you choose to show a trait as a way to express your gender indentity, then what you are doing is effectively putting a customized flavor on it. For example, let‘s say you identify with the trait of „being protective of loved ones“. Now, you can either leave that trait relatively neutral, give it an exotic taste, or, the easiest to visualize for many: give it a masculine or feminine flavor. If you give it a feminine flavor, you are expressing something that maybe feels a bit like a tradionally „motherly“ energy. If that is not what you are going for, if that doesn‘t feel right, you can give it a masculine flavor to express more of a traditional „fatherly“ energy. Moms and dads are both protective of their kids generally, but the vibe is often different. You could even say that generally people will get your vibe right if they use a certain gender (and that‘s then the pronoun you will ask people to use), but that for your for example the trait of „being protective of loved ones“ is not an expression of that gender for you. So, for example, you may identify as a woman, because that general vibe describes how you want to be seen often enough, but then be protective in a way that feels more neutral. It‘s not always perfect and some of the nuance gets lost when you try to break down your identity into a single little word, but if we had a few more genders, you could read something about someone and immediately know what vibe that person is going for and then respect that and make them feel seen. It is more useful, and more wholesome, for people to convey a little bit about themselves in pronouns than for them to convey what genitalia they have. And most people already do that anyway, even if inconsistently. For example, if someone has a PhD, they are often referred to as „doctor“, losing the information about their genitalia in favor of some other information about their social status. It‘s a bit arbitrary in that case though, I am just saying that people already agree with this general principle, so it is easy to expand it to gender. PS: This is just one way to understand gender, feel free to disagree. But it is one that seems to make sense to me.
This is so insightful. Thank you for sharing!
There are only two genders
@@richardbeckmann6720 you are spending a lot of time, clearly, trying to insert your ideas into these comments. That is fine, of course, as long as you are not expressing disrespect or hate towards any individual or group based on their identity. You seem to be passionate about your beliefs on this issue, but I just think you should consider your intentions here: are you trying to engage in meaningful discussion and debate, or are you just trying to shout down other opinions and assert your own?
@@AboveTheNoise nothing i posted is opinionated everything is scientifically and biologically factual. Everybody's entitled to their own believes but nobody is entitled to their own facts.
oh my god that is such a good way to explain it!! i love this comment so much
i’m really happy about you guys covering topics like this :) it hits really close to home as a trans and queer person. great job!
Thank you for watching!
I just avoid people who get offended if I accidentally use the wrong pronouns.
I get "misgendered" every single day. I'm a tall butch girl. People call me man,sir, dude, young man, he,him etc. I don't even address it because its not a big deal. I know myself enough and accept and love myself enough to a) not let others peoples mistakes upset me and b) not need validation from others. I can't fcks with people who aren't on that same level and get upset over pronouns.
as someone who uses all pronouns this video is SO nice. Here's a fun fact: the word "you" used to be only plural, just like "they!" thee/thine etc was used when referring to a singular person (i think), but over time thee/thine was phased out in favor of you/your. So if you ever see someone with the argument "well they/them is plural so it's grammatically incorrect!" point out the fact that we say "he/she IS doing fine" and "they/you ARE doing fine"
i believe it’s extremely important to popularize the usage of non-gendered pronouns, that can be used for ANYone. they/them is great, but sometimes it’s confusing between singular and plural. ey/em is my vote. if we could all just start using ey/em by DEFAULT until learnt otherwise, everything would be a lot easier, and people would get a lot less hurt.
I used to be totally down for they/them to refer to people when they asked, but the more I use it, the less I like it (though I still do without hesitation when it's preferred, out of common decency). The problem is, the original usage of they/them in the singular carries implicit information that the person being referenced is not known personally by the speaker; either they are merely an abstract of a person, or are simply not known well enough to know their gender. This is a very useful part of they/them, and this new usage often makes me feel like I need to clarify what exact definition of they/them is being used.
Let me demonstrate with a conversation I had with a friend the other day:
"One of my coworkers asked for help moving, would you be down to come help?"
"Probably, when were they planning on moving?"
"He's moving on Thursday."
This implicitly and efficiently communicates the subject's gender, and I have realized I often interpret meaning without realizing. If my friend had said "They're moving on Thursday" instead, I would have assumed that my friend *also* doesn't know the person directly. By giving they/them a new meaning, we are making our language less efficient at conveying information.
Anyway, I may not be too hot on they/them but I would be 1000% in favor of a totally separate pronoun (or even a whole slew of them with different connotations).
Admittedly, it can require an extra moment of reflection to figure out context in the kind of situation you describe. But, most of the people we interviewed for this video said that they (in this case, the plural!) are perfectly happy to answer questions about intended meaning and that extra effort - while perhaps not always efficient - does show a lot of care and respect.
For the longest time I thought I was a cis girl actually, but about a year ago I started wanting to experiment with she/they pronouns. I didn’t really tell many people other than my friends, but the people who knew always kept using she/her pronouns for me. It started making me want to start using they/them a lot more, and made me start to realize I don’t 100% feel like a girl. So I started using all pronouns, although people still mainly use she/her for me, which I don’t really like still. I’m still in between whether I’m gendefluid or agender though. Recently I’ve been identifying as genderfluid since I do have a specific gender some day, but most days my gender is agender since I don’t feel like a gender (if that makes sense).
But yeah, don’t be afraid to try new pronouns basically! I tried out new pronouns and now I feel a lot better and like myself!
Parents get so triggered when people confuse their kids genders, and this is taught to us, I'm a woman and I just prefer dressing in a hoodie and sweatpants, I wear no makeup and have shoulder length hair, I've been called sir and young man by multiple people, don't care.
The problem of being misgendered is because we treat women and men differently and as such we don't wanna be misgendered, if we treated anyone, women, men, non binary, anyone the same regardless of gender or pronouns nobody would need to feel misgendered because gender wouldn't hold any weight and we could even have 1 umbrella pronoun for everyone
I've been misgenerded for having long hair in the past however I didn't get triggerd over it and I understood the observation.
When I am forced to feel identified as male I feel less free. Being "masculine" locks my brain up in a prison of trauma. Identifying as nonbinary frees me up and lets me exhibit more comfortable behaviors like giggling and smiling
My pronouns are I/me/my since I'm an individual. I can't appropriate third person pronouns because they don't belong to me...they depend on the perception of other people.
That's really cool, do you use them in the same way you'd use they/them, he/him, she/her, or xe/xem?
such a well put together explanation for people at an entry level!! Definitely sending this to my grandma!!!
Lol. Our youth advisory board told us they wanted us to make a video on this topic for their relatives!
4:03 free speech means expressing your mind. This includes stating what you like and don’t like. I’m disappointed the guy who made the video didn’t realize this
It's taken some getting used to when someone I know comes out as trans or non-binary to use different pronouns for them (using "them" is okay here as I'm referring in a plural sense), and I won't lie, even as a pretty progressive guy, it has caused me a bit of discomfort at first. However, as I've gotten used to it, it doesn't bother me, and that feeling is pretty much temporary.
🤦🏻♂️
@@brianweatherman1207 Why that response?
I would prefer if there was a different singular gender neutral pronoun from they. At the end of the day, I will respect everyone's chosen pronouns.
I just discovered your channel and I'm loving it! Not only is it fantastic for learning but it's non-patronizing and provides many different angles for pretty complex topics, leaving the conclusion up to the viewier. I hope to see your channel grow heavily in the future!
I know this is an older video, but if you're still checking comments here I think you'd be able to do a fantastic video describing if "forced diversity" in media is a real thing or not. Cheers!
That’s great feedback to hear, thank you! And thanks for the suggestion for a topic! Please share any links to media you’ve seen about it, and we’ll check it out!
See, I'm all for living your life your way "you do you" because I believe we all have an unequivocal right to being who we are. The whole premise of shoving gender pronouns down everyone's throat or else!! is where I have an issue. Threatening job loss, physical harm because the wrong pronoun was used is absolutely ridiculous.
I don't care what you identify as because I want you to be happy and free to be yourself. You only have one life, so please, be happy! But stop catastrophizing when someone utters the wrong pronoun and your feelings get hurt.
I was called "she" one day at a meeting - I laughed and said haha yes im here (im a dude) made my contribution to the meeting and we went about our lives producing positive results. I wasn't so self centered that I felt the need to point out that mistake and take away from the main point.
We have hunger, inflation, and absolutely huge human rights issues to tackle. Stop attacking people when they don't refer to you as "ze++".
Be happy in your own skin, build a backbone and some resilience to speed bumps in life and I'll do the same.
Cheers.
This is why Finnish and Estonian languages are cool, unless you like the pronoun labelling. if in doubt I use 'comrade', like Wolfie Smith.
I recently realized that I was Agender. (It's an expression/label, not a gender identity) I feel pretty much genderless and love it when someone uses They/Them for me. I'm okay with she/her and he/him too, but I made it clear that calling me by She/her isn't an invitation to straight up identify me as a girl or use feminine terms when addressing me. They are just pronouns, they don't represent my gender. For example, you'd say "She's a person." instead of "She's a girl." I'm okay with any pronouns, but I only use gender neutral terms. I'm just a human being living life. Nothing delusional about. It was the best thing to ever happen to be because now, I'm much happier. 🧡
The pronoun situation gives me anxiety. I understand why people identify with them, but I have enough trouble remembering names, so trying to remember pronouns too is just added anxiety. I fear messing them up and upsetting the person. So I tend to stay away from those who don’t use the default pronouns for both our sakes….
That's very understandable😅 but I think the best you can do is to let them correct you, you know? That's not a bad thing to not remember.
@@edwardallenpoe7764 I’ve been chewed out for messing up…I think it comes down to the person as to whether they’re forgiving or not. If someone I’m close to changed their pronouns I think they’d be more forgiving than someone I’m trying to form a relationship with.
@@aubreehallmark4219 that is true, some people are more serious about correct pronouns, I may have been biased because I wouldn't get super angry at you if you messed up mine😅 but yeah, I think a friend you know would be more forgiving than a new person.
We should bring "thon" back. It was absolutely glorious.
"Twas a good word
I use he/him. For me, it's a matter of acknowledging who I am gender-wise (I am a man), and it hurts me when people use other pronouns because it's clear they don't view me as I view myself.
Some folks entire identity is based on their pronouns which is sad. I won't go out of my way to use the wrong pronoun. If that changes everyday for you, how do you expect people to take you serious. If you're confused, don't be upset others are confused as well.
im a trans guy who uses he/him and they/them pronouns. when it comes to gender expression i always saw it as a neutral thing. having they/them pronouns being used for me never bothered me even before i realized i was trans. being gender-nonconforming also makes me feel very happy when expressing my gender, i still like some of the things i liked when i was younger even if they were feminine. im actually very happy that i still feel confidence with expressing myself femininely as a guy.
Did anyone else get an ad for the Daily Wire's transphobic documentary, "What is a Woman?" at the top of this?
I did, it mortified me as a trans man seeing that.
Oh no! Thanks for alerting us. We might be able to block that.
I'm very interested in seeing it
@@AboveTheNoise why because you want to censor free speech
@@AboveTheNoise That's what I do now. I didn't used to, when things where about Marriage Equality.
But now I block everything LGBTQ related. People like Blaire White and Brandon Straka being examples of exceptions.
In some countries there is only one pronoun for all people, like in Hungary. We have 'ő', that covers all people. Some people even use it for animals and I heard it used for objects too, although for objects we have another pronoun, 'az'.
as someone whose native language does not have any gendered pronouns at all ("se", equivalent of "it" when talking about someone in casual, friendly, or informal manner, and "hän", sort of equivalent of singular they when talking about someone in professional, respectful... or sarcastic manner, and "te", more literal equivalent of singular they, that is used instead of "sinä" (you) in almost over the top of respectful manner when talking directly to someone), i have always found it funny how some people act as if gendered pronouns are corner stone for functional language, and using the gender neutral singular they is here to ruin everything.
also getting used to gendered pronouns in general took me a while. though i find them pretty useful, because they allow me to easily communicate my gender for others. it can be a little disruptive and clunky to try inform someone about my gender, rather than simply correcting the pronoun they were using about me, or telling what pronouns i use. in fact it's so useful, that i see people using english pronouns in their otherwise entirely finnish profiles on internet 😂in addition it's much easier to catch early on that someone has mistaken about my gender, because i have several times ended up in awkward situation where i realize after years of interactions that someone thought all this time that i am a woman.
Thank you for sharing your experience and perspective. It's always interesting to learn how these issues play out in different cultural contexts.
My pronouns are They/He/Xe, and honestly my pronouns are what feel right to me. Xe is fun to say, it's cool to hear too, and They and He are super accurate. I'm not a boy or girl, but He is just really nice to hear. This video was very nice!!!!
What was the nonbinary pizza place called? Little Xe/Xir's.
And this is a prime example of what pronoun jokes should be. Xe/xir pronouns and their variants are super cool! I used to use xe/xem and I would've pulled that joke 24/7 if I knew it back then lmao
I use any pronouns except “it”. People who’ve called me an it have always made me feel inhumane and lesser than them.
In Filipino we have "siya" (singular) "sila" (plural) which has no gender. It survived even after the Spanish colonization which put gender into even inanimate objects.
I wish we put that in our video! Thanks for dropping knowledge
The wonders of the Latin languages.
"... the tendency to view gender/sex as a meaningful, binary category is culturally determined and mallerable."
American Psychological Association, 2018
As for a fact, 1 in 100 births are out of the standard, not fitting either male or female.
This oversimplified statistic is NOT binary. It does NOT mean 1 in 100 is clearly way out of the standard. It is more like a million shaded of gray in which some are way off, and others are just a spec off and only noticable in lab conditions.
This is the anchor on the debate over sex. Because that has medical consequences.
The other debate is on gender. Which can in fact be synonymous with the word "identity". The two words gender and sex are 2 very different debates and point to very different directions and consequences.
However the quote above suggests that we can simply change our understanding of the word. Which is true.
The issue is, that the negotiations are enforced with all raging power any human can muster up. People demand, not ask, but demand to be treated special. The problem is, that when people raise high demands, they'd better have something to back it up with. That means, when everybody is special, then nobody is special. Which will inevitably lead to a hollow and meaningless word.
I.e. you demand (!) that I treat you special by calling you by your preferred pronoun. And a million others have their very own pronoun. I must then fall back into what ever I think is an appropriate response.
Because, and this is important, it is never the sender of a message who decided how the message is to be understood!
Therefore the pronoun is meaninless to me, because it is not special.
You may say thta the pronouns are not to make people special, but to include.
How can a list of 100 pronouns be inclusive? 100 pronouns divide larger groups of people into smaller groups of people at best. Thus there is no inclusion but division.
The fluidity of the groups makes it a tenfold more complex and pushes the debate into the realm of "feeling". Because today, as the far right always points out, you may "feel" yet another and different pronoun. And again you demand (!) of me to address your feeling on the handle you have decided to carry today.
You may say that it makes me see the variety of genders. As stated a few lines before, you do not decide how I interprete your messages. That's just common psychology.
The quote of the American Psychological Association above therefore can not mean to divide people into smaller groups by pronouns.
All it says it, that words and only words are socially constructed. They do not make an implication on the concept behind the word.
After all, you can fist-punch on your keyboard and create a new word to categorize todays feeling. But that only means to have created ripples of air, just to put a handle on the concept.
That is what the quote from the American Psychological Association meant. They tackeld the ripples in the air that puts a handle on the concept.
This is why people are reluctant to use your daily shifting pronouns.
Because people really form the bottom of their hearts do not care how you feel today and thus name your handle on your current feeling.
The use of they/them to describe an individual is not exactly a "daily shifting" call for pronoun usage - this has been a sustained and consistent concept for many years. Yes, there have been many different pronouns proposed over the last few centuries - and some, like "thon" in the video, didn't stand the test of time. Others, like using "He" to represent all genders, were challenged as being patriarchal. But I don't believe people who want to use they/them or any pronoun they feel describes their authentic self are doing this to oppress others or get "special treatment." They are asking for simple recognition of who they are. Language changes all the time, and the human mind is capable of learning vast amounts of new information on a daily basis. Why does it feel like such a huge burden to use the pronoun that someone asks you to use to describe them? They are not asking you to change your identity. Just to respect theirs.
Do you personally know anyone who changes their pronoun every day? Do you know anyone who uses pronouns different from he, she and they?
Has anyone demanded from you, with all raging power that humans can muster, that you call them by one pronoun rather than another? And I'm talking about actual experience, in person, not just some RUclips outrage clip.
Or are you just punching air and making up problems that don't exist?
I know a LOT of nonbinary people (as in, personally, in life), and none of them use any pronoun other than he, she or they. None of them switch their pronouns on a whim. Most of them have social anxiety and wouldn't in a million years make a big stink over someone messing up a pronoun, definitely not to that person's face.
So basically, I'm calling your bluff. I think everything you wrote is based off of anti-sjw cringe compilations, manufactured outrage, and twitter interactions. I think you need to go outside and meet some actual trans people because holy heck is it obvious that you don't know any.
@@AboveTheNoise a word used to describe somebody is an adjective not a pronoun language may change however biology Remains the Same and Universal.
@@richardbeckmann6720 That's an interesting statement. Pronouns in the English language are 'gendered' in that they can be masculine or feminine, which imparts an implicit descriptor when used. So, first point is, while technically true, patently false.
Second point. Oh boy. First off, capitalizing the words you did for emphasis is grammatically incorrect and odd. Secondly, biology changes every generation through trait selection and mutation, so that's also a patently untrue statement. Thirdly, claiming 'biology' to be universal is strange and seems to pull out of context from what these words actually mean. Biology is not universal, in that every culture on Earth has a different nuanced understanding of biology and interprets biological facts different. Biology as a field advances every day and our understanding of biological functions shifts with new discoveries and tests. What was true about our biology 100 years ago may be out of date and no longer accepted fact today, or even be completely proven wrong. Biology is not Mathematics, it is not the same everywhere and that presumption is a fallacious.
Now, all that said, I think it is important to, as the video made a point of stating, separate 'sex' from 'gender'. Sex is a biological trait of life, is not necessarily binary (and really shouldn't be treated as a binary), and has nothing to do with how a person perceives themselves. Biology determines a lot about a person, from bone density and blood volume to height and base muscle mass, nearly all base physical characteristics about a person are decided by their DNA at conception. Gender is a social perceptive that correlates to identity within the individual. Gender is a psychological concept, dealing with the mind and how a person views themselves, and while biology may play a part in brain chemistry, there are a myriad of other factors that also play a part in how a brain works.
I've met people who identify outside of the binary of 'man and woman' and personally, I see no issue with using any word they want to call themselves. It's common decency and basic human respect to call a person by what they want to be called. He, she, they, ze. None of these pronouns are 'problematic' and there's no good reason to not use them when it's requested.
I suppose your comment may have been innocent, but it smelled of bigotry to me by how it was emphasized and worded.
@@adazriel5878 any examples of biology changing through the years ? Identifying as something doesn't make you this something that you are identify as doesn't make it factual.
My reply would be, "Just...call people what they want to be called. Why care so much about what to call someone? Is it REALLY that important to you? It says more about you than it does them."
At the end of the day, it's about respecting people.
5:55 The visual does not match the assertion. The visual shows a declaration that, eg, He will be used, the assertion is one of motive, which is not stated in this case.
I use multiple neopronoun sets:
Un/Uns, It/Its, Ou/Ous, Thon/Thons, and Thou/Thee/Thy/Thine/Thyself
For me, these pronoun all have an old ring to them. My gender is distantly related to oldness, more in the victorian sense of oldness.
I find these pronouns are important being that they/them doesn't represent who I am well, she/her is also completely off the mark. Previously I was comfortable with he/him, but my other pronouns were neglected which led me to feeling uncomfortable even with he/him. My gender doesn't operate strictly within female/male, or femininity/masculinity.
I'm Xenogender as well as Agender.
My pronouns not being able to be defined within the binary gives me a great sense of euphoria.
I feel most represented by my un/uns pronoun set.
🤦🏻♂️
I use all pronouns and am attracted to the opposite sex regardless of pronouns.
Above the noise used to be two sided, but I'm disappointed that they are only one sided now. I support gender rights, but I still want to hear about people who are against them.
We are about human rights - not "gender rights." It is an essential human right to express your own gender identity and to ask for people to respect your humanity and right to exist. We value multiple perspectives and make room for different opinions on our show, as long as the perspective is not to deny another human being their right to exist or express their identity. For example, if we were covering Black people's civil rights as a movement we would not create space for racist or white supremacist voices on our platform. We acknowledge those perspectives exist, but we don't have to give them air time if they are denying a whole group of people their basic rights.
@@AboveTheNoise a gender is a biological assistance you're only expressing your personality not your biology
Personally I like people to use they/them the most but I'm not upset when people use he/she either. My appearance is quite neutral so it makes sense people (especially strangers) latch onto the one they think I best represent and that's fine. Although, the deep voice and beard does make she an odd choice.
Plus, I don't want to spend half my life explaining.
Personally, I think it'd be nice to phase out gendered pronouns entirely, but that's not something I'm going to actually push for or think would be appropriate to try to accomplish within my lifetime; I think respecting folk's pronouns needs to be prioritized, or a push to outright ditch gendered pronouns would just end up feeling really invalidating to a lot of people (not to mention rile transphobes up even worse).
Can probably be figured that I'm most comfortable with neutral pronouns, myself. That currently is almost exclusively they/them, but I keep hoping one of the explicitly singular neutral sets will grow common enough that I wouldn't have to be constantly explaining it to everyone. Singular "they" does still make grammar feel a little weird at times, such as when it forces a decision between the more familiar and natural-sounding "they are" or the contextually more technically correct "they is" -- and while I certainly don't consider that a big enough issue to fight against it or invalidate anyone or such, it does continue to sit as a little pet peeve for me. My brain is also still annoyingly trying to attach pronouns to someone's sex if I'm aware of it or feel confident enough about an assumption, so that's something I still need to work on more and will hopefully improve as I get to interact more with others, especially in-person. Getting the right set as early as possible helps. Currently, though, for some inexplicable reason, I still find it easier to avoid third-person pronouns even if that takes restructuring a sentence than to use neutral ones in at least some cases.
(Going a bit off topic now.)
Now, third-person pronoun variations that I think would be far more helpful than gendered or other (personal) identity-specific ones would be those that can help clarify contextual identity within the structure of a statement. A simple example would be something like if a specific individual or group is being referred to or if it's a hypothetical or generalized individual or group, such as you might get from a phrase like "they say...." What I think would be even MORE useful would be some way differentiating between multiple individuals in a given statement (other than by name, because names are only useful when speaking of specific individuals whose names are known, and even then it can make statements awkward, highly repetitive, and aesthetically unpleasant). For example, if I say something like, "Guy A told Guy B that he would take Guy C's stuff to his house," it's not actually clear if A is saying he'll do the task or telling B that B will be doing that task, or if the stuff is being taken to A's house, B's house, or C's house. I've had to restructure sentences and even paragraphs SO MANY TIMES to try to avoid that kind of ambiguity while also trying not to be overly repetitive. It can be especially messy if all you've got to identify anyone by is something descriptive, like...
"The woman in the blue shirt directed the woman with a ponytail to bring the file about a woman who was new in the area to the office belonging to the woman with a ponytail so that the woman with the ponytail could read over it and tell the woman in the blue shirt what thoughts the woman with the ponytail had about the new woman."
That is a mess.
"The woman in the blue shirt directed the woman with a ponytail to bring the file about a woman who was new in the area to her office so she could read over it and tell her what she thought about her."
A lot shorter and easier to read, but extremely ambiguous.
"The woman in the blue shirt (1) directed the woman with a ponytail (2) to bring the file about a woman who was new in the area (3) to her (2) office so she (2) could read over it and tell her (1) what she (2) thought about her (3)."
Something that could accomplish a balance like that.
Did you know that singular 'you' is pretty recent? It used to be only plural, with 'thou' being the singular. This is why we still say 'you are' and not 'you is'.
So yeah 'they are' is the grammatically correct version, and that is unlikely to change.
@@ryn2844 Yeah, "you" was plural or formal/respectful.
Also noteworthy that first, second, and third person pronouns all differ a little in correct grammatical usage. Following your own example, "thou" was typically used with "art" and so would also have likely become "thou are" rather than "thou is."
And, well... fact still remains that I've seen people debating "they are" vs "they is" plenty times, and it's still a choice between something that can cause numerical confusion and something that just doesn't sound right currently. And I'm not saying it's anything terrible, just something that pokes at my brain and makes me, personally, hope that an exclusively singular, neutral third-person pronoun set will better work its way into our vocabulary.
I use he/him and they/them pronouns, it's up to the person talking about me whether they want to use just he, just they, or both interchangeably. for me, these pronouns represent that I'm a demiboy; that I partly identify as a man, but I also don't necessarily identify within the gender binary. the gender binary to me is like an ombre between pink and blue. the middle represents feeling connected to both male and female gender identities. I don't identify as the 1/4 away from blue (male/boy), which might be a lavender blue, rather, my gender is more like a cyan or teal, its more of the yellow that is the absence of female and male, because most of the time, I don't feel female. sometimes on rare occasions, I do feel more like that lavender blue, but that's why gender is a spectrum. to represent the part of my identity that is outside of the usual gender binary or the spectrum just in between pink and blue, I also use xe/xem/xyr/xyrself pronouns online, or in writing. this may be that I'm just not comfortable with trying to explain these pronouns to most people around me.
i use any pronouns cuz im at a point in life where i stopped caring ^_^
Pronouns are very easy to use.
Example.
'Did you speak to Jamie and Kamala yesterday?'
'I spoke to them, but she wasn't there.'
So long people know who I'm talking about I don't really care about the pronouns lol. I just call everyone dude until I am asked otherwise
I use any/all as my pronouns because it's more important to me that others feel comfortable.
It should be of free choice, I choose to refer to someone according to their biology, this is in my opinion, my right and my choice.
6:43 This is classic Straw Man. If you want to know why someone objects to particular pronouns then ask _them_ . And when you've asked them, ask someone else, who may have different objections.
The best rule of thumb: if someone actively asks others to use certain pronouns when referring to them - just use them! It doesn't really matter if anyone else objects, right? Let's say you want people to stop saying your name incorrectly. Let's say you provide information about the correct pronunciation. If they insist on saying it some other way, instead of honoring your request - isn't that just disrespectful at the end of the day? Who cares if some other person says, "I don't think that's the correct pronunciation of that name!" It's not their name.
@@AboveTheNoise
Friend A has serious issues with gender identity. They ask me to use certain pronouns. After a period of adjustment I do. Everyone's happy.
Acquaintance B otoh is simply an attention-seeking drama queen; they are exploiting the serious issues which Friend A has by, in turn, demanding I use certain pronouns, and if I don't they have a massive tantrum. I think I'll provoke the tantrum.
Perhaps there are circumstances in which using requested pronouns is the right thing to do. And there are circumstances in which it is legitimate to refuse.
@@guest_informant Stop being friends with them. Don't refer to them at all. If you do have to interact with them, use the correct pronouns bc who gives a fuck. Idk it seems like having people decide when other people aren't genuine enough with their pronouns is a bad idea.
@@notreal9214
Gender is non-binary. Pronouns are binary?
@@guest_informant Gender is a word we made up. It doesn't have any meaning outside of that. idk what you're trying to make a point about here
What stress? I speak the way I've spoken for over 6 decades. No stress here.
Some people are stressed and find it challenging for different reasons / both those who are using them (in terms of getting people to respect them) and people who are being asked to use them (who either resist or struggle to use them for a variety of reasons). Glad to hear that you are not stressed!
@@AboveTheNoise I just ignore people making nutty requests of me.
I agree language changes, but the rules apply consistently. All your examples provided here are consistent addressing a common group. What you are suggesting is every person selects any combination of pronouns for others to address them. What happens to your logic them.
1:47 is the exact problem. "The big thing personal pronouns often signal is someones gender identity" - Wrong, absolutely 100% Wrong.
Personal pronouns refer to a Persons *Sex*, they have always referred to a persons Sex - they have never been defined as having anything to do with a persons "gender identity", that is until gender ideologues started changing the definitions of words.
A perfect example: According to people with this warped view of gender identity - A heterosexual male would be considered straight if he had sex with a man, as long as that man identified as a woman. Further, a heterosexual male who would not have sex with a male who identifies as a woman, is of course "transphobic".
99% of the trans issue originates from the distortion of words and the deliberate changing of definitions to force people to look at gender and sex through the lens of gender dysphoria.
I suspect that the main reason for most people who resist change in pronoun usage is simply that it isn’t the language they know, are used to, and “sounds right” to them. In this it is no different than other linguistic trends or fads (which is which we know after the fact). Politics and ideology gets people revved up more though, and loud voices take up more social space. There used to be a row about introducing “Ms.” into language. “Ms” sorta won, but mostly the trend has been to drop titles altogether in more and more situations.
But isn't that what linguistic evolution is all about? What might be a passing "fad" or a "trend" to you, might reflect a profound call for recognition of someone's humanity and struggle. There is always a negotiation involved as language changes, but we feel it should involve respect, reflection and above all...an open mind.
Absolutely. Language is, after all, a conversation.
@@thomasr.jackson2940 I identify People based on biology which is something that can't be altered.
@@richardbeckmann6720 That sounds like biological determinism (if what you meant is "can't be altered" vs. what you wrote, "can be altered.") www.britannica.com/topic/biological-determinism/Multifaceted-diseases
@@AboveTheNoise I ment can't. So you're going let a cooperate dictionary be a deciding factor and have a dictionary speak on your own behalf?
I don’t use pronouns. I just start sentences with verbs.
i do hope your joking cuz if youre not i have bad news for you-
Im know as she/her , born as a female and as my true identity by god grace, I'm will be 24 in November 23 , I look like a 12 years old child . I tried to use pronouns for them / they on one person but it was uncomfortable using one person after know them for a long time as true identity and changing thier name , recently I loss few of my friends from not using the right pronouns even though I love them as they are and I respect them and i tried my best to use pronouns , but I wasn't ready for the changes , I cried every night because I been with these friends since 9th grade , and they hurt me ,harass me and said horrible thing to me and didn't respect my choices and with my belief in god , all I wanted is to have friends that respect me , and my belief , and still love me even we don't have an agreement , I been feeling lonely and Im so scared of making new friend that I feel like they going hurt me too, after being so nice to them,
But bless the lord that have friends that care about me, on my side, and love me for being kind
If people want you to use `their` (sic) pronouns, avoid them.
Yeah, and crazy people are nothing new as well. But they're still crazy.
My pronouns are your/majesty. And my adjectives are tall/smart/handsome.
Pronouns dont make me feel accepted. They just make me feel incredibly lonely because no one understands my gender situation since we are all choosing our own internal worlds, so it feels like im disconnected from everyone. I had to stop using them for my own mental sanity, and just tell people to call me as they see me as until I figure this out. This video was somewhat helpful but also made me more confused..
i use any feminine-gender neutral pronouns (shx/hxr, they/them,
So the question is simple. He/she used to be use for singular form and they for plural. So why me being "he" should feel myself less then somebody unidentifiable which will be "they"? Cause I can't be called as "they" unless I'm a part of some company. Doesn't it look like a discrimination? Cause for me it definitely does.
So I still don't see the importance of third-person pronouns. Like I get incorrectly using he or she if it's not how someone identifies, but it's not something you would use in a conversation with that person. You would use second-person pronouns like you and your. And unless you know or have met that person, you would have no way to know what pronouns they would want to use. So I guess what I'm trying to say is why is they them not an acceptable pronoun set in all or most situations? Not trying to hate, just trying to understand...
I don't care what you refer to, and I will adapt to whatever you tell me, but one thing I don't agree with is people complaining about being misgendered when at first there is nothing in their attitude/speech/image that would tip that they are not confirming to the social boy/girl category. I don't think people should get offended for that. Basically, life your life as you please, but don't come and complain if I first assume you're a boy/girl in a society that still is very binary. Once you've told me I will respect your wish to be called by your pronouns, no problem about that. Also, wether people like it or not the English language has evolved before and will again, there's no need to try and stop that
Mine are 'I don't care/don't ask me'
(Don't get me wrong I will respect your decision)
Why do you keep saying "sex they were assigned at birth"? Sex isn't assigned, it's observed.
It actually is lol
@@Viibeezz yes, observed.
I am called she/her and that's fine but honeslty I have been called he or they and I don't mind. I ain't mad at any pronouns used for me so I don't know what that would be considered.
Obviously they/them/their are used as singular pronouns when the gender is not known or relevant, but that's not how people are trying to use it.
When referring to a specific person, gendered pronouns are the default. It's totally appropriate to assume a person's gender based on appearance, social cues, or context; even if those assumptions are sometimes wrong. I'd be more offended if someone assumed my gender was unknown, than if they mistook me as a woman.
I think that people who want to change their gender put too much value on gender norms. Men can have feminine interests and personalities, and likewise women can have masculine ones, but that doesn't change who they are. Gender roles in society are largely a social construct, but sex is biological. We shouldn't let the former define the latter.
gendered pronouns shouldnt BE the default. you should ask if youre not sure. assuming is not being a trans ally.
@@toastice2465 It's not reasonable to expect people to ask everyone they meet whether they're a man or a woman, because the vast majority of the time it's obvious.
In the rare case where someone makes a misjudgment it's a simple matter to correct.
I've been mistaken for a woman a few times in my life, but I don't get offended. Honest mistakes happen sometimes.
But if every time I met someone they felt the need to ask me if I was a man or woman, something would be wrong. Just how masculine do I have to be for you to not question it?
Questioning everyone's gender all the time will offend far more people than assuming everyone's gender and occasionally making an honest mistake. That's why assuming gender is the default. It's common courtesy.
It matters more if you don't respect that person and use their preferred pronouns if they tell you them. If you see someone wearing a dress and say she, but they say they want to be called he, then just do it.
Are you saying non-binary individuals don’t exist?
@@michace No, but the reality is that people like that are rare anomalies. That's not to say there's necessarily anything wrong with a person in that circumstance, but it's rare. It's unreasonable to expect all of the rest of us to change how we interact with and refer one another on the slim chance that we unknowingly meet someone who is an exception to the standard.
If we go around questioning everybody's gender then we'll offend far more people than if we just continue making our best assumptions and accepting a few honest mistakes.
This is awesome, thank you!!
Glad you like it!
I just want to be seen as a human ☺️ not what's down there.
Thanks for this, from a they/them :) My identity literally gets erased by not allowing they/them, so yea pronouns are important.
i thought that i was the only one to use the color spectrum to describe gender :O
Thank you for this video , it made alot sense
humans are a noun, not a pronoun. you are a noun, not a pronoun and cant be a pronoun, just a noun. we call people him or her because that's their gender and don't know the name or don't want to say the name to be faster at talking or texting. example: I am with Elizabeth". Big name so others don't want to say it or don't know the name so we say "I am with her". male it easy but all of this is, ONE: attention seeking/want to be different to seek it. TWO: delusion. THREE: brainwashed. FOUR: creating a new problem that can't be solved. stop trying to be someone you aren't. it's making your life miserable and stopping making people's lives worse. I'm helping I'm not the problem
Have you ever been friends with someone who is trans or nonbinary or anywhere between the spectrum of male and female identity? It can be mind opening to truly listen to them when they describe their feelings and experiences. You may not stick so rigidly to your own belief system and ways of categorizing people. Isn’t the most important thing to respect others when they tell you how they want to be treated? They’re not forcing you to change how you think about yourself, they are asking you for a simple consideration.
@@AboveTheNoise yep
If you encounter me, please use The Highly Reverend ... TY
Why you people want to force other people about your things?
In Bangla (aka Bengali) language, all the pronoun, verb etc. are gender-neutral by default. Problem solved!
Nahh.... I disagree. I'm not going to obey and fall for this social constructs ideology. Nobody can demanding me to call them suchness. But what I do want to see from them are to show their worth and dignity with actions their put in daily life. THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS.
Edit: and why you guys put so much your concerned on what other people going to call you rather then focus on what can you do to uplift and upgrade yourself becoming a successful individual (by your terms) that you're strive for. Nonetheless, the reality is nobody's do care about your pronouns except for the one who like to gossips.
Honestly, call yourself whatever you want, there's a 99.9999999999% chance I'm gonna forget everything about you the second I'm not looking at you anymore.
Awsome Video hope that we one day can live together without all this hate and stimgma because of things you can not really controll or dont harm anyone
Saying somebody was assigned a gender is like saying somebody was assigned the skin color or a race.
Not if you understand the meaning of the word gender and how it differs from the word “sex.”
@@AboveTheNoise then when you're using the terms he her She him you're addressing the person by sex not gender
Actually, you’re referring to the gender identity of the person. Not their chromosomes or genitalia.
@@AboveTheNoise mental thoughts don't change physical biology
why do you id w/ pronouns? to me it seems like what you are really id'ing with is a gender, and you want the pronouns ppl use to match that gender.
Imo you have a right to id with whatever gender you want to present as, and have other ppl refer to you as such. However that doesn't include the right to dictate which pronouns ppl use to reference a particular gender, any more than you have the right to dictate which word someone would use to refer to anything else (door, ennui, whatever)
a gender is a shared social definition, otherwise it becomes meaningless. (and at that point we may as well refer to each other w/ regard only to biological sex even tho sex and gender expression are/should be different)
personally I would use the pronoun "ze" for nb people but am open to pretty much anything except "they". "They" does introduce more ambiguity with plural.
I think for singular unknown ppl we should also use a better word than "they" anyways. (maybe "ze" or something as well)
A gender-neutral pronoun would be nice... My biggest issue being that I'm not sure how to properly honor people without also memorizing the desired pronoun for approximately 7 billion people ... and if I'm going to have to do THAT, well it might take me a bit.
(Btw, I really am okay being referred to as "pronoun / pronoum" in context.)
A single gender-neutral pronoun would be the most obvious choice.
You manage to memorize people's names though. At least, for the people you care about. Isn't that just as hard? And if you forget a name, you just ask again, same goes for pronouns.
You'd have to remember far fewer pronouns than names. Generally it's just he/she/they, and the people who use neopronouns are often okay with one of those options too. And I'm quite sure you don't know 7 billion people personally.
When people say things like 'it's too hard because there's so many', I really wonder if they've run into this problem in their lives. Do you actually know a ton of people who use neopronouns? Or is this just a problem that you imagine could happen maybe someday if the world went insane?
I personally know a LOT of nonbinary people, and none of those people use anything but he/she/they. If I came across one who does use something else, I'm sure I could manage to remember what their pronouns are.
Why just expand it/im/its to neuter??
I was always uncomfortable with people using unusual or "incorrect" pronouns because it just didn't mesh with my preconceptions of social behaviours. In the end I decided that since it didn't actively hurt me, I would elect generally to ignore it. By which I mean that I would attempt to avoid referring to someone by any pronouns whatsoever, either by using their proper name or simply not referring to them.
That's when I encountered an issue. People who have expressed a vulnerable quality of themselves don't generally then like for it to be ignored, and I was told that doing so made them feel uncomfortable. But I don't think it should be anyone's responsibility to cater their own behaviour to someone else's comfort. Because if I make someone else uncomfortable by not using the pronouns they want me to use, they make me uncomfortable by insisting that I use them. Why should their comfort matter more than mine?
If no one's hurting me and I'm not hurting anyone else, what's wrong with just ignoring the behaviours we find strange or uncomfortable from each other? Your level of comfort in who you are and how you behave is a personal thing; you should neither expect nor demand that society validate your identity and behaviours. You shouldn't be attacked for them either, or told to change them, so long as they're not hurting anyone else.
These are great points! No one should depend on others to validate their own identity. Also, it’s not impossible to refrain from using a person’s preferred pronouns while simultaneously treating them with kindness. I have a feeling ATN and many here will disagree 😬
@@cestlavegan5793 I think this is all about respecting other people and learning. This isn't a score-keeping exercise or punitive. If you find it easier to avoid using pronouns altogether, and still respect someone's humanity and identity, that's a great starting point. But if you actively use the pronouns someone has asked you to use when referring to them in the 3rd person, isn't that just about showing kindness and support for a fellow human? Is it worth it to find a workaround because of your own discomfort with doing what they wish you would do to validate their existence?
@@AboveTheNoise Just to be clear I support using people’s preferred gender pronouns, and have no interest in making someone uncomfortable by refusing to do so. But I do think the original commenter brings up a good point about the possible discomfort felt by both parties. When one genuinely feels uncomfortable using another’s preferred pronouns, whose comfort matters more? I think it’s tricky. I’m not sure what the solution is, but maybe in these (I suspect rare) situations only the gender neutral pronouns should be permitted.
@@cestlavegan5793 I think the word 'discomfort' is misleading here. The person who is uncomfortable using a pronoun feels at most clunky and awkward, but 'discomfort' is not accurate when describing how the trans person feels in this situation.
So, you're a human. I'm going to assume there are things about yourself that you are ashamed of, that aren't generally socially acceptable, that both you and the people you love would rather were different about you. I don't know what it is, maybe you dropped out of school, or you got bullied, or you got judged for having an abort!on, or you got dumped by someone you loved, or whatever.
Hold on to that feeling of inadequacy and judgement and shame, that prickly feeling that creeps through your arms and up your back and neck, the feeling that puts a writhing knot in your stomach that you want to vom!t out, but can't, the feeling that makes you tense up to the point that your limbs become jittery and uncooperative and your words become slightly jumbled. Hold on to those alarm bells that start ringing in the back of your mind when someone brings that thing up, indicating you've gotten defensive, your fight or flight response was tr!ggered.
Now imagine most people in your life, as well as strangers on the street, rubbing that thing in your face constantly. The feeling doesn't subside, it just adds up over time, every new wave reminding you of the last million. Everyone around you is so adamant that that one thing you hate most about yourself defines you forever, that you might start to believe that's all you are. People will never see past that thing to see you for who you are, and heck maybe they're right not to. Maybe you ARE delus!onal to think you're worth anything beyond that, I mean, if that's what everyone believes, they're probably right.
That's part of what it feels like. I haven't gotten into the feelings of d!sgust, disconnect and betrayal that come with dysphoria, but I think this is enough for now.
Nobody has ever been su!cidal over having to call someone a pronoun that they don't like. 40% of trans people (who survived to be able to fill in surveys) have attempted su!cide. A trans person who is not accepted for who they are is 13 times more likely to attempt than a trans person who is, and that's controlled for things like access to medical transition.
Do you still think that calling both these things 'discomfort' and putting them on equal footing is a fair assessment?
Side note. There are trans people who prefer the pronoun 'it' for themselves, and other trans people have trauma attached to being called that word, so can't bring themselves to use it. Generally, people who prefer 'it' also accept other gender neutral pronouns for that reason.
In this situation, it makes sense to take someone's discomfort with using a certain pronoun for someone else seriously. But no cis person has personal trauma attached to the pronoun 'they' or 'ze'. That's just not a thing.
Like honestly, cis people claiming that them having to say the word 'they' is as uncomfortable as having to endure dysphoria is like people claiming they're going to suffocate and d!e from having to wear a facemask. Get a gr!p. And they say we're the sens!tive ones.
@@ryn2844 I largely agree with your position. This all seems a bit silly to me given just how much mainstream support that position has nowadays. The only hypothetical I can imagine where I’d disagree is one in which the person frequently changes their preferred pronouns. But perhaps that’s irrelevant, given how seemingly rare that particular scenario is.
I've learned something today... THON.
They/Them is used when you don’t know what gender the person is, when found out people default to He/Him or She/Her, if your trans just use the one that fits the gender you turned into, There IS only two, anyway good vid tho, You made a better case then most, also how am I supposed to respond to someone getting mad at me for saying the wrong pronoun? like I didn’t know and no I won’t ask before meeting you, it just sounds like I am ignorant if I ask.
If gender is fluid then how can people get it right, solution, just call people by their name.
Gender is not a math equation. It’s a deeply personal Identity that every individual human has the right to decide for themselves. Kind of like the way we all choose to show up in the world.
We’ll done!!
I use he/him for people who look male, and she/her for people who look female. It's that simple.
So you don't care a smidge what someone would like you to use when referring to them?
@@AboveTheNoise That's what the name is for.
@@TheCrossfire951 every time the guy gets leveled in a comment he doesn't have a comeback.
@@TheCrossfire951 trans man here. We use pronouns when using someones name over and over again becomes well not that good. Names and pronouns are how we identify someone, and those names are pronouns are the ones the person chooses themselves.
@@fabianshedenhelm2986 Why can't we choose our ethnicity then?
Elon was mocking virtue signaling... 🤝
Yeah, by throwing all calls for respecting pronouns under the bus? Isn't that using his considerable influence to cast doubt and ridicule on a whole group of humans who are asking for respect and understanding? Seems kinda glib at best, and entitled at worst.
@@AboveTheNoise why can't I respect someone's pronouns who doesn't accept the sex they were biologically born?
Why do you care if someone accepts or not the identity they were assigned at birth? How does it impact you if they choose to express their gender identity their own way? Why not just go with what they want for their own sense of self?
@@AboveTheNoise like you posted they could express their own gender but not a different gender that they biologically different from.
@@AboveTheNoise of course you can express but don't force other to call you with your makeup terms
It cause unnecessary confusion and problems
What's next preferred adjectives to describe how people Express themselves? Such as if a bald person is wearing a wig and I refer to them as bald am I incorrect. If someone has brown hair and they bleach it would I be Miss adjectiving them if I refer to them as a brunette. If it's 7foot 3 person word to refer to a six foot two person a shorty would that make the 7-foot three-person and correct?
If you think gender pronouns are unpopular here, just take a look at statistics from non-white majority countries.
Haha..... I know right!!
the amount of hate comments are making me,,, really sad.
im genderfluid and i use they/she/he pronouns.
This "hate" that you are seeing, can you describe it?
@@SSGLGamesVlogs saying "this isnt valid!1!1" "im not gonna call you [insertvalid pronouns here]" saying that we're "forcing" it onto them etc. why do you ask?
I'm a person who will not comply with this Pronoun thing.
how come?
Wait until you go to any other country beside USA, Canada, Australia, and England. They will laugh at you until you leave their country realizing the rest of the world doesn't pander to this nonsense.
i have my own pronoun's ,other people have thiers just respect each other if you dont wanted to use them,dont simple