I'm sorry, but that wasn't a great review. If you're testing modern forks with capaple dampers it would maybe be a good idea to not set them up like old 1990 forks, just ramping up the pressures and opening up the compression... Doing that will obviously lead to the conclusion that the fork with less damping (aka the Lyrik) is the better fork. Just looking at it from a technical standpoint, the Fox offers way more usable damping range, which allows you to gow lower in pressure, which in return generates more grip and comfort while still having enough support thanks to the damping. This is not to say, that the Lyrik is a bad fork, it's just designed to rely more on the airspring than on the damping. So if you set both of them up in a way, that they almost solely rely on the damping, of course it's going to feel better...
While it's true you need to effectively use the damper in order to judge performance, the current generation Fox dampers definitely lose to the RS dampers. Pretty sure even Fox knows given how their latest developments were pretty much just an attempt to match RS current typical highlights
@@Fleijah I don't think I would agree with you on that one. (Sorry, this is gonna be long, but maybe it helps to clear up some misconceptions about MTB suspension.) So here goes: The new RS stuff tends to feel better out of the box, because it is way easier to setup right respectively way harder to setup wrong than almost anything else, but it also can't match the performance potential of the competition (not just Fox) given proper setup. From Charger 2.1 to Charger 3 and 3.1 Rockshox has mainly worked on making setup easier and not on upping the pure performance (they even state that in some of the developement content). That's why they removed the ability to change the preload on the HSC shimstack (that's what the HSC adjustment on the Charger 2.1 did and what the HSC adjuster still does in pretty much every competitor damper not only in MTB but also on Motorcycles) and added a second orifice which is controlled by the HSC dial. This means that the "actual" hsc is set from the factory (like on older Select models), and you get to choose the LSC and add some super high speed Compression through the new HSC adjuster. Super high speed, because orifice style dampers don't tend to work at high velocities and small openings, therefore the HSC orifice is kept pretty big even in the closed position. What does that mean in practice? It is pretty hard to f up the compression setup, because the "actual" HSC is set, which is the most important part of a compression circuit. So all great? For most average riders yes, but if you actually want or need more or less "actual" HSC, you're out of luck, unless you know how to change the shimstack inside the damper. Long story short: the RS damper is not "better" than the Fox damper, from a technical standpoint it is actually quite a bite worse, but it's harder to setup badly. And that's why this review is so bad. Because all it says is: "If you don't know how to setup a damper, the damper with less options for setup is better." That would be an interesting takeaway as well, and should be part of a well rounded review. But there should also be the part saying: "If you know how to properly setup a damper and are trying to get the best pure performance out of said damper, the Fox offers more usable range."
@@PatBK same reason most people dont get on with ohlins from my understanding, because they are really really hard to get right but when you do its somthing else (so i hear)
Thanks for the comment. These are trail focussed forks - the GRIP X damper is Fox's trail damper while the GRIP X2 is the gravity damper. The 36 Factory GRIP X is a perfect fit with the Lyrik Ultimate. Cheers!
Finally, an honest review with an actual opinion. THANK YOU! Also, thanks for helping me know im not losing my mind. I upgraded my damper to the grip x 2 because i had broke off my rebound afjuster on a rock. When watching reviews i thought i should have been using compression listening to the salesmen. But any amount of clicks above full open felt horrible at any psi. My weight is165-170lbs. And basically same on rebound. Again thanks for being honest. This is needed in the youtube world of produce sales lol. Now i know i should have just bought the lyric or zeb. Lol
Glad you appreciated the video dude! Al works super hard on these so we're happy you enjoyed it. Hopefully you'll get the fork working well - it's still a great fork!
@@mbuktvso if anyone is wondering if you want your fox 36 to not feel like crap, remove all the tokens and then adjust from there taken me a year to figure this out. Everyone says add no one says to remove. Trust get them out.
I use rockshox forks in all my 4 bikes and I'm fully convinced of their eficiency. Sid ultimate race day 1, 120mm, on my hardtail, Sid ultimate race day 2, 120mm, on my Wilier Urta Max Slr, Lyrick ultimate 160mm 3.0 Charger on my Stumpjumper Evo and an older Lyrick 180mm 2.1 Charger on my Propain Tyee Cf(didn't want a 38 fork). The Sid's are amazing but boy...both the Lyrick's are out of this world. So smooth, so progressive, so easy and capable. And for what I've been told the Lyrick 3.1 is just the best 160mm fork out there. The buttercups do a colossal job and everyone I know is perfectly smitten with that fork. But they also tell me the Fox Grip X2 is almost as good. The thing is, and I'm portuguese and buy everything in a few trusted websites, I can get a Lyrick 3.1 160mm for 720€...but a Gripx2 160mm only for close to 1200€. And that is a massive diference!! I can buy a hole Sram Gx transmission with that money and I'm still left with some spare tens of €s...Simple, honest opinion here but...Fox is simply too expensive! All the best from Coimbra, Portugal
And you know what?...The only regret I have nowadays with rockshox forks is the lack of colours available. Until recently we could still have a Lyrick Ultimate in red. Now, only olive green, wich I have and is very nice, and the very bland black with white lettering...At least with a Fox 36 you can always get a spectacular orange! Still...not worth almost 500€ more in my book. Thank you for writing back. Much appreciated. All the best from Coimbra, Portugal!
@@luismartins9521 Maybe one day there'll be a red Lyrik again! Coimbra is awesome, and it's great to have people from all over Europe watching the channel. Cheers!
Cheers my friends, it is my pleasure! Still...It would have been interesting to see the Lyrick 3.1 "battle" an orange Fox factory Grip x2. I think that would have been more honest and would have shut a lot of the "noise" it was written bellow these very lines. That, I have to agree with mr "kingflynxi9420"...And how ridiculous, internet names...My name is Luís Martins, period!
I’ve had previous Lyrics and really liked how supple they were and the kind of fit and forget. They just didn’t match Fox when things get rowdy as the Fox felt much more composed. Both are great like you say but I guess they will come to personal preference
The Lyrik Select+ uses the same Charger 3 or 3.1 (depending on model year) as the Ultimate version, so it will have more mid-stroke support than the Charger RC damper used in the Lyrik Select.
You're either in one camp or the other on a great many bike related products, Fox v Rockshox, Sram V Shimano, Maxxis v Schwalbe, it's all subjective as the variables involved in such a basic test are too many to conclude definitively
Got my Lyrik select last week. Absolutely love it! I thought the exact same thing. I’m not a a pro so I really didn’t need the ultimate. The select was perfect and I got it for under 500! What a steal lol
I’ve bought a zeb and pike select plus. Both unused in the box for about £400 a piece. Best value for money forks I’ve ever had. The new rockshox stuff is awesome. My experience with fox has been creaking CSUs and horrible topout noises.
comparing the grip X is not fair, although a simple grip 2 is way better than the 3.1 lyric ultimate, i've never found anything with a 3 or 3.1 damper feeling somehow decent, the 2.1 was so much better
This comparison would be a lot more useful if you had the grip x2 damper in the 36. The entire test is about descending characteristics so it would only make sense to test the damper that is aimed at descending.
The RockShox Lyrik is the brand's trail-focussed fork, while the 36 Factory GRIP X is Fox's trail-focussed fork. The GRIP X2 is Fox's gravity damper, so the GRIP X 36 and Lyrik are the perfect competitors.
@ is any mountain biking not “trail”? As I said this test was entirely based on descending and the Grip X2 is clearly designed to excel at that… It’s just odd that you would choose the simpler and lighter weight damper from one brand to test against another brands fully featured damper.
I have 3.1 lyrik ultimate, it is the worst fork I have ever owned or ridden. Harsh on small bumps, no mid-support, dives like crazy on big hits. Just horrible. Not to mention it needed service from the factory, twice and it still is horrid.
I'm sorry, but that wasn't a great review. If you're testing modern forks with capaple dampers it would maybe be a good idea to not set them up like old 1990 forks, just ramping up the pressures and opening up the compression... Doing that will obviously lead to the conclusion that the fork with less damping (aka the Lyrik) is the better fork. Just looking at it from a technical standpoint, the Fox offers way more usable damping range, which allows you to gow lower in pressure, which in return generates more grip and comfort while still having enough support thanks to the damping. This is not to say, that the Lyrik is a bad fork, it's just designed to rely more on the airspring than on the damping. So if you set both of them up in a way, that they almost solely rely on the damping, of course it's going to feel better...
I got the 3.1 and it's amazing really is.
While it's true you need to effectively use the damper in order to judge performance, the current generation Fox dampers definitely lose to the RS dampers. Pretty sure even Fox knows given how their latest developments were pretty much just an attempt to match RS current typical highlights
@@Fleijah I don't think I would agree with you on that one. (Sorry, this is gonna be long, but maybe it helps to clear up some misconceptions about MTB suspension.) So here goes: The new RS stuff tends to feel better out of the box, because it is way easier to setup right respectively way harder to setup wrong than almost anything else, but it also can't match the performance potential of the competition (not just Fox) given proper setup. From Charger 2.1 to Charger 3 and 3.1 Rockshox has mainly worked on making setup easier and not on upping the pure performance (they even state that in some of the developement content). That's why they removed the ability to change the preload on the HSC shimstack (that's what the HSC adjustment on the Charger 2.1 did and what the HSC adjuster still does in pretty much every competitor damper not only in MTB but also on Motorcycles) and added a second orifice which is controlled by the HSC dial. This means that the "actual" hsc is set from the factory (like on older Select models), and you get to choose the LSC and add some super high speed Compression through the new HSC adjuster. Super high speed, because orifice style dampers don't tend to work at high velocities and small openings, therefore the HSC orifice is kept pretty big even in the closed position. What does that mean in practice? It is pretty hard to f up the compression setup, because the "actual" HSC is set, which is the most important part of a compression circuit. So all great? For most average riders yes, but if you actually want or need more or less "actual" HSC, you're out of luck, unless you know how to change the shimstack inside the damper. Long story short: the RS damper is not "better" than the Fox damper, from a technical standpoint it is actually quite a bite worse, but it's harder to setup badly. And that's why this review is so bad. Because all it says is: "If you don't know how to setup a damper, the damper with less options for setup is better." That would be an interesting takeaway as well, and should be part of a well rounded review. But there should also be the part saying: "If you know how to properly setup a damper and are trying to get the best pure performance out of said damper, the Fox offers more usable range."
@@PatBKbravo, an excellent summation.
@@PatBK same reason most people dont get on with ohlins from my understanding, because they are really really hard to get right but when you do its somthing else (so i hear)
I think the grip x2 damper might be a more fair comparison to the charger 3.1
Thanks for the comment. These are trail focussed forks - the GRIP X damper is Fox's trail damper while the GRIP X2 is the gravity damper. The 36 Factory GRIP X is a perfect fit with the Lyrik Ultimate. Cheers!
Finally, an honest review with an actual opinion. THANK YOU! Also, thanks for helping me know im not losing my mind. I upgraded my damper to the grip x 2 because i had broke off my rebound afjuster on a rock. When watching reviews i thought i should have been using compression listening to the salesmen. But any amount of clicks above full open felt horrible at any psi. My weight is165-170lbs. And basically same on rebound. Again thanks for being honest. This is needed in the youtube world of produce sales lol. Now i know i should have just bought the lyric or zeb. Lol
Glad you appreciated the video dude! Al works super hard on these so we're happy you enjoyed it. Hopefully you'll get the fork working well - it's still a great fork!
@@mbuktvso if anyone is wondering if you want your fox 36 to not feel like crap, remove all the tokens and then adjust from there taken me a year to figure this out. Everyone says add no one says to remove. Trust get them out.
I’ve just up graded my Lyric to the 3.1 damper.. I can’t wait to try it!
Hopefully it feels as awesome for you as it does for Alex!
How do you feel?
How about chassis stiffness 36 vs lyrik?
I use rockshox forks in all my 4 bikes and I'm fully convinced of their eficiency. Sid ultimate race day 1, 120mm, on my hardtail, Sid ultimate race day 2, 120mm, on my Wilier Urta Max Slr, Lyrick ultimate 160mm 3.0 Charger on my Stumpjumper Evo and an older Lyrick 180mm 2.1 Charger on my Propain Tyee Cf(didn't want a 38 fork). The Sid's are amazing but boy...both the Lyrick's are out of this world. So smooth, so progressive, so easy and capable. And for what I've been told the Lyrick 3.1 is just the best 160mm fork out there. The buttercups do a colossal job and everyone I know is perfectly smitten with that fork. But they also tell me the Fox Grip X2 is almost as good. The thing is, and I'm portuguese and buy everything in a few trusted websites, I can get a Lyrick 3.1 160mm for 720€...but a Gripx2 160mm only for close to 1200€. And that is a massive diference!! I can buy a hole Sram Gx transmission with that money and I'm still left with some spare tens of €s...Simple, honest opinion here but...Fox is simply too expensive!
All the best from Coimbra, Portugal
We're glad you're loving your RockShox forks and have found them at great prices!
And you know what?...The only regret I have nowadays with rockshox forks is the lack of colours available. Until recently we could still have a Lyrick Ultimate in red. Now, only olive green, wich I have and is very nice, and the very bland black with white lettering...At least with a Fox 36 you can always get a spectacular orange! Still...not worth almost 500€ more in my book. Thank you for writing back. Much appreciated. All the best from Coimbra, Portugal!
@@luismartins9521 Maybe one day there'll be a red Lyrik again! Coimbra is awesome, and it's great to have people from all over Europe watching the channel. Cheers!
Cheers my friends, it is my pleasure! Still...It would have been interesting to see the Lyrick 3.1 "battle" an orange Fox factory Grip x2. I think that would have been more honest and would have shut a lot of the "noise" it was written bellow these very lines. That, I have to agree with mr "kingflynxi9420"...And how ridiculous, internet names...My name is Luís Martins, period!
How about chassis stiffness of the lyrik aganist 36?
I’ve had previous Lyrics and really liked how supple they were and the kind of fit and forget. They just didn’t match Fox when things get rowdy as the Fox felt much more composed. Both are great like you say but I guess they will come to personal preference
Current gen RS allegedly completely turned that around. I'm curious
The new RS Charger 3.1 forks are awesome!
Has the lyrik select + more mid stroke support than the lyrik select?
The Lyrik Select+ uses the same Charger 3 or 3.1 (depending on model year) as the Ultimate version, so it will have more mid-stroke support than the Charger RC damper used in the Lyrik Select.
I have fox 36 grip 2 , and rear fox float evol on a stumpie rides real nice
The Fox is still a great fork!
You're either in one camp or the other on a great many bike related products, Fox v Rockshox, Sram V Shimano, Maxxis v Schwalbe, it's all subjective as the variables involved in such a basic test are too many to conclude definitively
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using the outdated damper on the 36 are you?
The GRIP X is one of Fox's latest dampers.
I had zebs which kept going back under warranty. While they where away the third time I bought some 3.1 lyriks and never looked back they feel mega
Glad you're loving the 3.1!
Got my Lyrik select last week. Absolutely love it! I thought the exact same thing. I’m not a a pro so I really didn’t need the ultimate. The select was perfect and I got it for under 500! What a steal lol
The Select is an amazing fork!
Zeb vs 38 @ 180mm please 🙏
We'll try to see if something is possible!
I’ve bought a zeb and pike select plus. Both unused in the box for about £400 a piece. Best value for money forks I’ve ever had. The new rockshox stuff is awesome. My experience with fox has been creaking CSUs and horrible topout noises.
That's a bargain top work!
comparing the grip X is not fair, although a simple grip 2 is way better than the 3.1 lyric ultimate, i've never found anything with a 3 or 3.1 damper feeling somehow decent, the 2.1 was so much better
The GRIP X is Fox's trail damper and the Lyrik is RockShox's trail fork - they're a perfect comparison! Cheers!
@@mbuktv The pike is a trail fork, the lyrik is more of an enduro fork
This comparison would be a lot more useful if you had the grip x2 damper in the 36. The entire test is about descending characteristics so it would only make sense to test the damper that is aimed at descending.
The RockShox Lyrik is the brand's trail-focussed fork, while the 36 Factory GRIP X is Fox's trail-focussed fork. The GRIP X2 is Fox's gravity damper, so the GRIP X 36 and Lyrik are the perfect competitors.
@ is any mountain biking not “trail”?
As I said this test was entirely based on descending and the Grip X2 is clearly designed to excel at that… It’s just odd that you would choose the simpler and lighter weight damper from one brand to test against another brands fully featured damper.
@@brookscurran Thanks for the extra feedback. Which RockShox damper or fork do you think is a better comparison to the Fox 36 Factory GRIP X?
Answer: “best”.
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I have 3.1 lyrik ultimate, it is the worst fork I have ever owned or ridden. Harsh on small bumps, no mid-support, dives like crazy on big hits. Just horrible. Not to mention it needed service from the factory, twice and it still is horrid.
Sorry to hear that, but these haven't been Alex's or the rest of our test team's experiences.
@@plainuser48596 you’ve definitely got a bad fork then , my lyriks feel amazing
Check the bushings and oil
Lyrik here as well from Zeb from 36. Lyrik 3.1 hand down.
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