Starting A Horse Under Saddle | Talk Through Vlog
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
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#horsetraining #saddlebreaking #equestrianvlog
"Starting horses under saddle should actually be fairly boring when done right" 👏🏻 amen!
"Relaxation" has been the bottom of the German training scale for ages. On the other hand, it does not contain "Show the horse who the boss is," as far as I know. It's surprising how many people forget this - and it's great to see the results you are getting without any drama.
i know Im kinda off topic but does anyone know of a good website to watch newly released series online?
@Lorenzo Shawn Flixportal :D
@Preston Kaiser Thank you, I signed up and it seems like they got a lot of movies there :D I appreciate it!
@Lorenzo Shawn glad I could help =)
I absolutely love the way you train your horses. They seem so comfortable. The way you just deal with situations before they’re allowed to happen is fascinating to watch; the way you predict what will happen, and do your best to avoid a stressful situation. This video is extremely helpful, considering I’m a fairly new equestrian (almost 4 years into it, but still learning a lot!), and also considering what you do is something I would love to do in the future, it’s so interesting to watch 💕
I also noticed she transitioned from turning her whole head to look at you for reassurance when nervous to just indicating thought about what she was looking at with her ears as she got more comfortable.
I totally agree with the hard tying method being awful. I’ve seen so many videos of horses falling down or flipping over from pulling back so hard and it makes me feel nauseous. I’m so glad that you are using different methods.
She's such a sweet girl, I'm glad you're the type of trainer to put in real time and effort with the horses. She's going to be a confident mare and a great partner.
Another horse helped. Shelby: you are the zen horse master. Your videos have become more and more clear for people to learn to develop the patience and observation of subtle horse communication to help them work better with their own horses. Watching you work makes my heart expand. Look at Percy being a helper now -- he has come a long way too -- he is so much calmer now. Kudos to you and Percy's other owner for another horse done-well-by. Thank you so much for sharing to help more horses every where. :)
She is so cute! I have a special place in my heart for black Morgans.
Fantastic! You clearly train in a way that helps horses become confident and calm, and utilize their own coping mechanisms. Very refreshing to see! 👏 👏
I like the fact that she is bit less. Too many people use the wrong bits for training and riding, really impressed with the training video 🐴
this’ll be a good reference for me! we ended up with a free appaloosa mare who was pretty much being dumped on anyone the people could find since she wasn’t fast enough to rope. she’s pretty much been sitting on pasture for a year or so, and while i’m confident i can restart her under saddle by myself, it’s always awesome to have references and you’re one of the most reliable ones
Her little snip is so cute 🥺💕
13:40 Absolutely! Having agency is huge. When you feel that someone is paying attention to your own feelings and desires, and will not push you when you're having a hard time is so important for learning and building trust. I find it so saddening and frustrating that the reaction of so many "trainers" is to punish and suppress behavior that is showing fear, anxiety, and discomfort. I would think that doing so just tells the horse that you don't care about their feelings or welfare, that they must comply/obey you no matter what, and that you will cause them discomfort and/or pain if they do not comply. What a life that is...to learn to do things to avoid pain or discomfort, to obey/comply out of fear and self preservation, all the while having your basic needs and wants ignored (social time with other horses, enough space to roam and graze etc...). If only people could realize and accept that we can actually get really high quality and consistent cooperation from horses using holistic and positive reinforcement based methods, where all new things are taught with patience, kindness, rewards, and breaks...where their basic needs are met and satisfied...and where "big" negative emotions like fear are met with patience, understanding, time, and kindness, and not punishment, aggression, and pain.
I worked as a stable hand in a private barn for a little while, and was repeatedly told that I could not use food rewards with the horses when I asked politely. I was told and encouraged to be aggressive, harmful, and just MEAN to the horses, where any "bad behavior" was "corrected" with hard jerks on the halter or a strike to the chest with a lead rope. I felt uncomfortable with doing those things, and did my best to change and be less harmful after a bit of time. It was amazing to see the huge positive changes in the horses' behavior when I tried to use more positive reinforcement and food to manage and prevent big reactions. There was one morning when a horse was loose in the barn (someone did not latch the stall door properly!!), and this horse was known for being "aggressive" to people and horses, and for resource guarding. Instead of trying to intimidate and muscle her into her stall (she was aggravating the other horses - and I also didn't want her to get hurt by spooking and running around inside), I just grabbed her breakfast and showed it to her, then poured it into her bucket in her stall. She went in no problem and I was able to safely lock the stall after her. Some would tell me that I was stupid to do that, because I rewarded and therefore encouraged her to act that way again, but I wasn't trying to train her, I was trying to manage the situation and prevent anything worse from happening in the least intrusive and minimally aversive way possible. Her getting out of her stall like that was not a regular occurrence, it was a fluke and a potentially dangerous situation. Responding to her in her already anxious and defensive state with aggression and pressure would likely have ended badly, since she's known to respond "aggressively" to such actions. It also would have been plain old mean and unnecessary. I got what I wanted and managed the situation in a way that did not cause her more anxiety and harm...yet I know that many people would tell me what I did was wrong. Anyway, all this to say that I really love and appreciate your patient, understanding, kind, holistic, and science-informed methods, and I continue to learn a lot from your videos! Also disclaimer: I'm NOT a professional by any means, and I don't claim to be. I'm still very much a rookie student.
Love love love this comment
@@Natalie_C94 Awww thank you so much! You made my day!
Excellent teaching video! (Thank you for keeping it clean so our young riders can watch, and learn the correct ways to train.). It’s amazing how we expect our horses to have patience but the riders often have very little. That was the golden nugget in this teaching...patience and calm. I hope you’ll do more of these, the horses’ world could definitely benefit!
Awwe shes beautiful! I desire to be a horse trainer like you! Just a question, how do you start getting clients?
I built my references by riding for free and job shadowing other trainers before I started charging people
@@Milestone-Equestrian okay! thank you so much!
Non
Off topic, the snow is so beautiful!
Morgans are my breed!!! She is so cute!
Loved this insight and your explanations. A horse is a partner, not something to be dominated. Even as she progresses, and treats lessen in frequency, she will remember that you are asking, and she will search for the right behavior of her own accord to find a reward. I think this is so important in training. When you could have a horse willingly offer different things to see what’s right, vs so much force to squeeze something out of them. They want to be with you, it’s fun and mentally stimulating. I got my first “ undamaged “ unbroken horse, using methods very similar to yours, shes 100% different than my others. She thinks doing stuff with me is fun. And is constantly goofing around while I’m mucking to get my attention. she respects my space, and only “begs” for treats by showing me all of her ground skills when I’m not paying her attention lol.
I actually just got a horse yesterday so this gave some tips because I wasn’t sure about my ways to training
Gosh I LOVE morgans! She looks so much like my 2.5 y/o Canadian horse, and seems to have a similar personality so this is really cool for me to watch. I noticed that as the video progressed her "stop and assess" moments became much shorter as her confidence increased---really interesting to see how well that positive reinforcement resonated with her!
Beautiful wish I could afford a horse.🎉🎉🎉 Happy New Year.
Me too :(
Same
I love this so much, the calmness and harmony is just lovely, so nice to not see a baby horse stressed and over threshold
ATLAST someone's done a tutorial on this. Thank you ❤️
At the rescue I volunteer at all of the horses are older and chill so I just loop the lead rope over the corral fence since they're angels and won't walk away lol
OH MY GOODNESS, I AM SO HAPPY THIS VIDEO EXISTS. I have been crossing my fingers for years that you would do something like this and I was not disappointed. Thank you for sharing, this is just so so lovely to watch and so very informative and educational. Thank you for existing and everything you stand for.
Yes, I'm a massive fan.
That looked liked it went so smoothly. Good job. I appreciate and learn from your commentary.
i love your methods!! this was of starting them under saddle seems so stress free. i hate seeing people starting horses and the horses bucking everywhere when it doesnt have to be that way, so much unnecessary mental and physical stress for the poor horses. youre so talented!!
I LOVE her ears.
Also great job! It's so refreshing to see the kind of work you do with horses!
This was a very insightful video! Always find something to take away from your videos, thank you :) We use Morgans on our ranch and they are the most intelligent, hard-working little fellas...not to mention how cow-y they are when you get into the foundation and western-bred lines.
Shes quite the lovely horse.
I'm starting my three year old under saddle soon and I've been looking for some helpful tips. This was defiantly helpful! Thank you, Shelby!
Love your training Philosophy. This video is the first one I’ve seen on your channel and it caused me to subscribe, can’t wait to watch more.
I’m not sure how long I’ve been subscribed but I know I haven’t regretted subscribing!!!💞 you’ve picked a good channel!!👏🏼🤩
Shelby I LOVE how you allow her to respond in her own way!!!👏🏼 And how you listen to her!!!🤩
Thank you for sharing your breakdown about retraining for tying. She's beautiful. Have you seen Denny Emerson's FB posts about Morgans? He is a big supporter of the breed. Has evented some to the upper levels. He also does competitive long distance trail rides. Good tip about alfalfa and chewing.
I have! I already really likes Morgan’s before working with Aldora because of a lot of his posts, this is just the first time that I’ve actually had the opportunity to work with the purebred one. They are very nice horses and super versatile
@@Milestone-Equestrian Yes! I know of one who shows as a driving horse, and also foxhunts.
Happy New Year Selby. And to your friend too. And aldoru is beautiful girl. She kinder remains of simmon being ridin under saddle for the first time. Please say Happy New Year to your mom for me Selby. All my love to you and your mom for me
Thank you for the amazing video Shelby!
This was super entertaining, Shelby!! Also, will soon be ordering your pads once I find that new horse for sure 😫
Really interesting, thank you very much for this video. Always a pleasure to follow your work.
Someone forwarded this video to me today after having a day with my cob that we just had zero forward without a ground helper (only fifth time under saddle and our first time without a gh). If you don’t have someone to pony or on the ground, what tips might you give to help with forward? He’s great on the ground. Knows all signals yielding and voice etc from ground but didn’t translate to action today. Grateful for tips!
Another job well done! Aldora seems like a wonderful horse.
Your good ,love to watch you
you are such a great professional, great video as always, much love and happy new year ❤️
I love your "boring" training methods! The horses become so relaxed and happy.
Also, I have a naive question: Is it a myth that feeding treats frequently causes horses to be nippy? Could you talk more about this sometime?
The cause of horses to be nippy is no different than when you’re trick training a dog or something. If you teach them where they need to be to get their reward and how they need to act to receive it without frustrating or confusing them, there’s no reason for them to get nippy as they will not associate that as being something that makes getting rewarded more likely
Happy new year Shelby,
Happy new year to you too!
Excellent 💖
Hi Shelby, I have a 1 year old colt who I am taking through the steps of slowly desensitizing with every day routine tasks. Would you be able to do a video on getting a young horse used to a hose? I've tried everything very slowly including treats and he just doesn't tolerate it and is terrified. He injured his leg s few months back and wouldn't let me hose the swelling. Much appreciated! Enjoying your videos 🤗
An alternative to hard tying is to create a grooming stall. Most of the horses I’ve known who got panicky with cross tie pressure were much better with it. That way you can tie them up without them panicking as much
Horses who are prone to pulling back tend to do it regardless of where they’re tied so even within a stall, her issues would’ve had to be worked on the same way as generally whenever they pull and feel any sort of pressure, it creates a panic response that isn’t area dependent,
This is incredible! Do you have any videos of you teaching them the go forward cues and steering cues on the ground? To make it easier when you're on them? I have a rescue horse and he's my first one training from the ground up
I have some of me ground driving pogo from last year. Forward cues are just taught by connecting previously taught vocal cues to the leg aids .
@@Milestone-Equestrian wow thank you for responding! Your comment was helpful I will look for those videos. I'm sure it will be of great help for me and Skylark! If your interested I have youtube video of his progress so far!
How do you introduce forward leg aids from the ground? I understand how you would introduce lateral aids.
I teach vocal cues. And then you just use the vocal cue along side the leg aid under saddle and it becomes links to the forward Cue
Adora is cute but Percy have become full of awesome. So handsome :)
There’s an old cowboy method so to say, you tie them through their belly behind the elbow so they do not hurt their neck
Sounds like an excellent way to hurt their legs and sternum instead
that method should really only be used as a last resort if more ethical techniques have failed to yield any sort of improvement. the rope has to be fastened correctly so that it only applies pressure when the horse pulls back and it needs to be able to release immediately after they stop pulling meaning the horse needs to have a good understanding of how to give to light pressure which isn't always the case if they have anxiety about hard tying. usually it's not at all necessary as you can solve most tying problems by making it feel like a good positive experience for the horse.
I was wondering, do you get a saddle fitted before you back or do you get the horse riding first so the saddler can assess the horse's movements?
The horse needs to be started first before fitting a saddle otherwise it’s not super fair to the horse to undergo the process of fitting a saddle since they need to be ridden to be properly assessed for that. With that said, Anything related to saddle fitting or purchasing a new saddle is the responsibility of the client and not something I handle with horses in training. With horses in training I will use the tack that I have and half pads or shims to make it fit more comfortably, but I will not pay to get custom saddles worth it and saddles for clients because it isn’t practical.
Aldora is my horse and I did try to get a saddle fit on her before she went to training but as Shelby said there’s not a lot that can be done before the horse is under saddle. So we used Shelby’s saddle to get her started and Shelby recommended some fitters who will be doing a fitting on her before I bring her home. It was really nice that Shelby had a saddle she could use in this situation!
@@CarbonSwan You are getting good advice on the saddle. Your horse is beautiful. Last year I lost my Saddlebred/Morgan mare to chronic founder and complications from Cushings. She was my heart horse, I started her myself and had her 18 years. I miss her every day. Give your girl more love than she knows what to do with. ❤️
May I ask your advice on how to teach a horse (he’s not a young/unbroken horse or a rescue pony) to stand still when tied up. He’s constantly fidgeting when tied and grooming/tacking up (he’s had full health check).I usually just move him back to where he’s moved from as a way of correction, but feel like this isn’t a positive reinforcement method. I'm learning so much from you, and just want to do right by him x
He’s likely nervous so I would target the why behind the nerves and start working on calm behaviour. If you provide him with a hay net, this also tends to help with relaxation and once he no longer associates tying with anxiety, he won’t need to have one.
Aww i really really like her! She seems like such a great horse! What bridle or halter is that? I really like it!
It’s the Micklem halter!
How do you srart making your saddel pads and where do they get made? I love your pads too do you sell to Australia?
I know this is an older video, but how can you teach a horse to pony? Like, the one that leads, not the one being lead. I'd love to teach my mare to pony other horses, but she's not a big fan of other horses.
Do you ever feed treats/alfalfa pellets from the saddle while they have a bit in?
Happy New Years!!!if you don’t mind me asking What do you recommend for a horse who has big outbursts off property or when stressed? I’ve been working with my grade mare(4yo she’s young but extremely smart and sweet) on the ground because I feel it’s safer for both of us she gets a lot of treats but she tends to get overly anxious when she sees other horses she doesn’t recognize.
She’s gotten better being off property but if she sees another horse she flips out and yanks back and tries to go back home not sure why she’s so fearful of other horses but she seems to be I’ve tried introducing to my friends Gelding who is super sweet and they hit it off pretty well but it’s hard to find other horses who won’t nip or bite her. She’s very low on the totem pole honestly I’ve never seen a horse like this when they see another horse usually they get excited but she gets scared and wants to run away from the horse. Do you think introducing her to other horses in a positive light will help? Sorry just trying to get an idea. So far I haven’t really hit anything major I’ve thought about trying to get her occupied doing something else like pivoting and backing up and stuff but she still tends to get anxious and I try my best not to stress her out she gets a lot of treats and praise another thing she’ll do is hide behind me when she’s anxious she’ll also rub on me a lot sort of as a calming thing I guess idk why she tends to calm down the closer she is to me but at the same time she’s all up in my bubble I’ve been letting her get away with it for now but that will probably hopefully change in the future once she’s more confident.
I personally always introduce off property excursions to horses with another familiar horse so that they can follow another horse and then she would likely have an easier time encountering new horses.
@@Milestone-Equestrian ok thank you so much I’ll definitely try that
okay so I need some input.? I have a 4yo gelding, who I've had since he was born, and I've only just started backing him in the last few months (maybe since august?) with the help of my trainer. I am only 16, and to preface this, I will tell you that I used to be terrified of him. he was so flighty, he got loose often, and I was afraid to handle him on most days. he's certainly matured, and we have been doing a lot of lunge work in the past year, working on reading body language and responding to voice commands. because I have never backed a horse before, I was quite nervous when I first got on him. he's kind of interesting, because he is very trusting of people and always looks to people for reassurance (especially me) however he still isn't super brave and just spooks at ridiculous things. so, in the times that I've been on his back, I have stayed on a lunge line. he has decent breaks, I am just afraid that he is going to get away from me. we do steering drills, like figure 8s and weaving cones and we have done long lining too. we've also trotted, but stayed on a lunge line. I just don't want to be setting him up for failure when we both have the confidence to come off of the line. any tips or things I should work on in myself to make sure that I am confident? or are there other things I can do with him to help him prepare for real riding that doesn't me in danger?
to add- I feel like I have been taking it maybe too slow with him? we seem to be many steps behind other young horses and I'm not sure if there should be a set timeline to get certain things done. I don't want to rush him but I don't want to drag this out so long that I won't have a reliable horse by the time he's 5 or 6.
@@nellierhodes04 imo often "slower" ends up being faster. If you take the time to instill confidence you won't overface them and then have to retrain stress behaviors developed from going too quickly. Shelby talks about this a lot in her recent riding journey video too.
I would definitely recommend working closely with a trainer and getting professional rides as necessary. That way you can have a second set of eyes to assess his level of anxiety and determine whether he is likely to react dangerously and when he is ready to of progress to doing more, this will keep the both of you safer.
@@Milestone-Equestrian thank you very much for responding Shelby! I enjoy watching you work with your horses and I really love your training methods, I really appreciate your advice
Hey could you please do a whole video about it like every little thing ?
I included all of the footage I have in this one / do an overview of the steps :)
@@Milestone-Equestrian okay thank you I really love your videos I get a lot of information off them and it helps me with my horses as well I have two ottb and I love them so much they’re honestly the best type of horses!!
Can you please tell me who makes that halter? I love it!
Micklem
It’s a great halter. What’s the brand? 💜
Micklem
How do you begin to teach voice commands on the ground? Would love to know! X
Do you have any tips for getting a horse that bucks and bolts out of fear under saddle to calm down and relax? For example a horse that will see a ground pole while being led and be fine but when under saddle acts like it’s a monster? There is no pain from the saddle or any pain anywhere else (trust me I have the bulls to prove it lol).
I would do more groundwork, even if they seem fine on the ground, they are likely still nervous and only willing to walk over it because they get to follow you over. Once you do some groundwork and get them a bit more comfortable over poles I have a leave rewarding walking over the pool on the ground, you could get them to follow other horses over ground pools under saddle and then heavenly reward that. Anxiety and horses is something they can mask pretty well until it becomes too much and then that’s when you got big explosions when they are afraid of something.
That is an interesting halter she has on.
It is the Micklem halter
Nice little Morgan horse I like Morgan's and you're a nice little lady sweetheart I guess 😁🐝
How do you know when your ready to start your own horse? What's the best way to gain that Futher experience?
I personally wouldn't recommend anyone start horses on their own until they've worked with and shadowed a trainer to start a horse or unless they're paying a trainer to work alongside them because it's way too hard to troubleshoot any issues that come up without lengthy experience starting numerous horses.
I’m Aldora’s owner and I was thinking about starting her myself too. She was going well lunging and I had even been on her back a few times at liberty. But I realized riding is a lot different than training and I can’t give her as good of a start as a professional can. I researched trainers for almost a year before I chose Shelby, I think how a horse is started is probably the most important part of their training. I wanted to make sure it was done in a way I agree with and that follows my ethics and values. I am so happy with the work Shelby has done and glad I decided to send Aldora out instead of doing it myself. Seeing my horse excited to work, calm and brave under saddle, it was really worth it.
What did you say the name of the treat was?
I really like the positive reinforcement method as well! So I'm really interested in these treats but didnt understand what you said?
They’re just alfalfa hay pellets
@@Milestone-Equestrian Oh okay, thank you still!
what was the time span for each part? like how long after you started laying over her did you trot etc.?
She had a couple weeks of bellying over and walking on her own without the pony before trotting.
I've never trained a horse from scratch and we are just starting to teach rein and leg cues. She is okay with rein cues but doesn't seem to quite understand the squeezing of your leg to go. How do I teach her to understand it without using a lot of pressure? She is quite sensitive to pressure and doesn't like to be asked of too much. If she does she'll bomb off.
I would teach the vocal cues for forward on the ground first and then connect them under saddle once she has a good understanding of them otherwise she will probably get confused / frustrated by increasing pressure
@@Milestone-Equestrian Thank you! I have already taught her gated vocal cues on the ground, and they seem to help under saddle. But most of the time she does start pinning her ears and giving me warnings that she will rear/buck if I don't stop asking her. But this is just when I am on her by myself and no one is assisting me from the ground. I'm going to try the pony-ing system to help teach leg cues and rein cues, but I normally don't have someone out at the barn to help me.
do you think you would ever try doing podcasts?
I do already have a podcast, it is called making milestones and it is available on most podcast apps
@@Milestone-Equestrian oh ok thank you!
Where’s the black ponies bitless bridle from please x
It’s just the Micklem halter, not a bitless bridle but can be used like one.
What do you think about the blocker tie rings?
I still wouldn’t really trust them more than twine or one of the rings that has a distinct opening because sometimes the amount of pressure they take to open is still too much IMO
Kelly and the Horses I love ours. After hard tying our young horse and him freaking out bad, we bought the blocker ties.
@@Milestone-Equestrian Thanks! I really enjoy what you do with your horses. I think the same about many points you address. We have four very sensitive PRE mares who you can't force to do anything, but will carry you through fire once they understand and consent.
@@sidilicious11 I do use them too, but had gotten thinner lead ropes to use them as cross ties. I think she's right though that you need to minimize the pressure on their head if they spook or pull back. :) All our horses "hard tie" now even though they could leave easily if they wanted.
Do u use the alfalfa & molasses treats?
No, molasses is high sugar. These are just hay pellets.
What halter/bitless bridle are you using?
It’s the Micklem halter
It’s a Micklem halter with reins attached
Do you have any horses that you aren’t able to use treats with? I have a horse that I’m working with that seems to get more anxious and twitchy if I have treats with me. I’ve had better success with just using scratches or release of pressure as rewards. However, I’d love to be able to use treats to reward behaviors more accurately. Thoughts?
Not really, the only real issue would be extremely fat horses or ones with allergies that prevent them from being able to get larger quantities of food during training but even with easy keepers this hasn’t been a big issue for me as hay pellets are technically a forage so it’s just feeding them extra hay
Shelby Dennis how do you keep them from being mouthy or overly focused on the food? I’m gonna try getting the alfalfa pellets to at least keep him chewing longer.
@@fluteteachermarcie6283 The key is to make a very clear connection between the behaviours you’re asking for and the reward. Also teaching them that they only get fed when they are in a neutral position, like facing forward or away from you, not coming in towards you for food.
What saddle do you have
It’s an Amerigo
@@Milestone-Equestrian thank you
Are there situations where you won’t use the stirrup to mount when you’re first “bellying” a horse?
When I first belly them up, I don’t use the stirrups. As stated in the video, not all days were recorded so the first days aren’t featured in this.