No, sorry, but giving drunks booze only exaggerates the problem. We've already tested this theory and it doesn't work. It is an abject failure. It doesn't save them, it doesn't help them seek lasting change, it doesn't reduce harm overall. It is the opposite effect. This is just killing vulnerable people slowly.
This is a substantially better alternative to dying on the streets. Doesn’t even compare. I’m grateful this exists for people whom are unable to conform to standard treatments. This program should be implemented in EVERY city.
Before I watched this I would have said the idea of treating alcoholics with alcohol was insane!!! As a recovering alcoholic who is abstinent I see alcohol as being pure poison for me. But for those who can't maintain complete sobriety it's better to have some semblance of a life (with a bit of security and a sense of community) than none at all. And I can think of so many possible savings to tax payers- as they said- less police intervention, emergency medical services, and less burden on the penal system. But it may also allow for savings in the court, housing, education and child welfare systems, if you consider how the residents of this program could impact their communities if they receive no help at all. In this case an imperfect solution is better than doing nothing.
Totally agree! The Oaks is a progressive solution to the many issues that can plague the life of an alcoholic. Housing, Loneliness, Healthcare, Nutrition, etc...In the world of addiction, I almost look at this “wine therapy” in the same way that medication assisted therapy (MAT), such as Suboxone or Methadone, is prescribed for an opiate addict when all other therapy including abstinence has failed. These medications attach to the same receptor sites in the brain as the drug of choice did but doesn’t produce the same high (like the wine prescribed by the doctor didn’t make the patients drunk, only curbed their symptoms of withdrawal). In turn, the person, is well and has the opportunity to function and live a full and happy life. I hope people can get past the initial stigma and embrace this new way of treating alcoholism. It would be great if there were more options out there for those who have been through traditional treatment and failed.
if you see it purely from a medical perspective. its a chemical they are addicted to. they need to have it, and it dosed so they do nt take too much. this is a good idea.
It's true that you can't save them all. I like the analogy to palliative care. Even though someone in hospice doesn't have much of a life left and are dying, you don't dispose of them. You make whatever life they do have less painful and more dignified.
One thing that really stuck out to me: Irwin, so ashamed of his current situation and away from his children, lighting up and beaming when sharing that its his friends birthday and he does the Terry Fox run. What an interesting and heartfelt display of humanity.
Sadly, I have seen or know most of the people shown, in the centre or on the street. I live in the Byward Market and have gotten to know a lot of the street people, they are human and need care and dignity like the rest of us.
Kudos... I really can't praise this enough. This is a fantastic programme and It should be extended to drugs. I know people will say it's bad to give them alcohol, but it's far better than the alternative. They're drinking less, they're eating properly, and they have a roof over their head. Canada and Belgium are so forward thinking. We should have this in the UK!!
I agree. It might seem counter-intuitive to give alcohol to an alcaholic but for those with hardened addictions, at this late stage, I think it's really nice that they are in some sense being accepted by those around them, which perhaps they never have felt before.
I don't think we have the money to run it here in England. I am rather suspicious that it's simply an elaborate pub trick. I kind of just looks like a pub, but with the Dr. And, Social Services involved. Certainly looks good for business as a pub, but perhaps after some time that pub might close. Then what? A cafe? Folks need to socialize somewhere. It's a bit of a shame, it's always focused on the alcohol. Although, I imagine that bar work is that skilled. Doing it with drugs as well is taking pandering to folks weaknesses a bit too far. Certainly it's a very complex problem. A job for, a Barperson, a Dr and a Social Worker plus 1000 tax payers perhaps. Nice that you are talking about this my Countryman. People, who are involved with certain drugs and alcohol are always quite close to death. Because of the Therapeutic Index. I have researched alcohol and drug use, out of respect for companions. It's incredible, how close to death those folks are, with the Class A drugs and also Alcohol. With our class system for contrlled drugs. Would you agree that Alcoholic drinks, rank alongside Class A drugs of Opioid substances. I won't even say their names actually. Because that's like marketing. However, I would like to say. I don't really have a clue. I am not a Barperson or whatever really.
@@MrRobertFarr You don't have to say their names. I'm 30+ years into an opiate addiction that feels I'm never going to come out from & the only help here is to swap it for something far worse 🤷🏻♀️ I have COPD because of how long I've been smoking all the crap mixed up with it. To answer your question I think alcohol & benzodiazepines (valium etc) are worse than heroin for example. The withdrawal from those 2 things can kill you, whereas with heroin & anything else the withdrawal effects although bad are not as dangerous
One of the sweetest, kindest and smartest men I have ever known, my Grandfather, was a chronic alcoholic! Thank God my Grandmother stuck by his side and he never ended up on the streets, because if he had I would have barely known him before he passed away. For the native gentleman who also changed the bedding, please don't hide yourself from your boys! Even if all you can do right now is to write to them, do so and tell them about yourself, your dreams, and how much you love them, and that you stayed away because you love them, and for sure make sure they know how easy it is for natives to become addicted and how the next generation has a higher chance of addiction and to just stay away from anything addictive. For Jimmy you are I believe as sweet hearted as my grandfather! For both men mentioned and to all there including the staff, you are special, you are wanted, you are a blessing to many even if you don't believe so, and you are all inspirational!!!! ALL of my love and the love, blessings and grace of our LORD GOD ALMIGHTY, our SAVIOUR, unto you and yours, today, tomorrow and for always!!!
After watching this documentary, I am actually on board with this program…it’s a wonderful plan of action for those folks who absolutely cannot give it up. I’m proud to say that I got sober 9 years ago and I’m holding steady. Good luck to all the folks in this program…it’s nice to see them socializing, living life and drinking much less. 👍👏💖
isnt it great when your able to use your brain to figure out wether something is right or not unlike these extremists that dont know anything about alcoholism
My Dad drank hard liquor all his life. He switched to wine in his 60's. He still drinks wine every day but only a half bottle or so. He just turned 90 and is in good health. He walks an hour and a half every day. He'll never stop drinking but switching to wine not only cut down his drinking but probably saved his life.
@@hotwheels1838There's many functioning addicts and/or alcoholics. It's the really the difference of having self control and choosing to use or not having the control.
I work in an alcohol treatment facility. The fact that this place can keep severe alcoholics away from getting rip roaring drunk is nothing short of incredible. This documentary has forced me to rethink how we treat alcoholics. There is no one falling over. There is no one puking. There are no fights.
And there are 40 people not needing emergency services especially when it is cold in Canda. Good program. A would like a volunteer way of these people reducing their consumption after being there for a while. Also love to see it expand
@@aj5690 it's not profitable for society...it does reduce the impact on everyone else though No need to go commit crime to support an addiction.. especially with drugs, also it means less money in the pockets of organized crime
Use to be an alcoholic. I switched my core paradigms about drinking and that worked very well for me. I'm not against alcohol -I'm very much for health. In fact, let's say this: I was never addicted to alcohol, I was addicted to the illusions alcohol promised.
@@curtiswhitener1616 what’s crazy is I don’t even drink I was on h i been off of it for three years but I’m on subutex and been trying to quit I felt like these people I take a pill to feel normal I’m going to quit tomorrow I have been working my way down wish me luck
I love harm reduction! I want it in Texas. I'd like to participate in helping those struggling to overcome this deadly disease however I can. It is possible to survive and lead a full life. I'm living proof. Thank you for this story, keep showing harm reduction with love. Tough love doesn't work. It creates additional guilt enabling those who suffer to continue in their disease. They need empathy compassion & real help.
I have a friend who died in detox. There is such a moral perspective on drinking that it has to be all or nothing in the rehab world. There is a massive physical addiction that can be ignored in the face of this moral judgement. There needs to be more middle ground. Maybe this is it.
in terms of physical dependence, alcohol is almost unique in that withdrawals can be readily fatal, delirium tremens has a mortality rate of 5-10% each time. I've had it twice, and let me tell you..... your body remembers, and lets you know youre at risk of dying@@eustab.anas-mann9510
As a recovering alcoholic and addict I can relate to all of this harm reduction is better than been full blown drinking it's not a nice place to be when you havnt even got the motivation to wash yourself god bless everyone 🙏🙏
I thought very seriously about this when I started watching, but I too think this programme is awesome. Why? Because we live in a world of duality - we can't have good without bad, up without down etc. So just as total abstinence is at one end of the spectrum, at the other end we have some who will always need alcohol and I have not yet seen a more compassionate way of dealing with this extreme opposite end of the spectrum. And before I too am judged for being "wishy-washy" by the will-power group, I lived with an alcoholic who eventually got cirrhosis of the liver and who is now abstinent but has to live with a permanent stent in his 50% functioning liver in order to drain fluids from his body. He is back living with me BTW. With addictions there is always room for various help programmes because you cannot have a one fit solution for humanity. This centre has the courage and honesty to face the reality of duality. May there grow more of them.
I'm so blown away by how many people in this comment section are super positive and in total support of this program. I expected so many stuck ups saying cruel things....but no! Well done and bloody good on you all ;)
My sister's husband died from drinking himself to death, he was a chronic alcoholic. Hard liquor everyday...all day. Slowly but surely. And we knew it. But nothing we said made any difference. He died at only 41. RIP Johnny
Shyann1 A good friend of mine was an alcoholic since high school and died just before his 32nd birthday. Probably went through rehab and detox a dozen times over about 10 years. I wonder if he'd still be here if he had a place like this.
@ EnviroSocial,.. I doubt it. Some people can stop. But their are those hard caseswhere nothing u say or do can help them. I don't understand that sort of powerful pull. Maybe those are the ones who give up on life and have no hope left. Maybe they are in tremendous emotional pain. I don't know what keeps those hardcore addicts, other than maybe it's like a certain switch is turned on and won't shut off ? A lot of things at play here. Im sorry to hear about ur friend. Blessings ~ xx
@ caryn martin,... ya, it's a sad thing watching others destroy themselves and we cant help them. They have to want to dig deep down inside to help themselves. But the very least I can say is they are not suffering anymore from living that way. Sorry to hear the loss of ur friend. God Bless ~ xx
What keeps people addicted is that chronic exposure to a drug causes changes in the brain. Addiction changes the way a person thinks and feels. Addiction changes a person's brain so they feel intensely driven to get their drug. Addicts do not necessarily have something else "wrong" with them. Plenty of addicts become addicts by experimenting with or using drugs recreationally and not realizing that they're addicted before it's too late. I could get into the neurobiology of addiction more if you want. It's pretty interesting, but just keep in mind that since it changes a person's brain, that's why it isn't really possible for addicts to "just quit." The psychic and emotional forces that they experience, driving them back to the drug, are coming from within the person but are the result of adaptations to chronic exposure to a drug. These adaptations take place at the cellular and subcellular level in the brain.
when i was desperate and drank mouthwash it felt like someone took there hand shoved it down my throat my body was like naw dog im good and made me throw up so violently i thought my eyes were going to pop out of my head
The most addictive drug in the world, I bet there's not many of us who could give up drinking for a month never mind a life time, hats off to all who are recovering,
My mother in law died of late stage cihrossis a few years ago & I wish she could have got into a program like this. We found her unconscious in her horrible apartment & she died a week later in palliative. She was in & out of rehab. This would have made her last months tolerable. Just to treat the physiological symptoms is sometimes the only option besides dying alone in a hoarded apartment, having first responders busting your door down frequently when you don't answer your door or phonecalls or dying in a clean facility amongst friends & caregivers. Treatment has a different face when it's an end-stage addiction. Make them comfortable in their last days. ❤
And for all the people whinging about "muh tax dollars" well, if you actually think about it (and it's mentioned throughout the doco) there's a huge amount of money being saved wrt the costs to the health department and law enforcement yhat would normally go towards dealing with these chronic alcoholics. These are the people for whom normal treatment doesn't work. So stop applying typical boundaries to a situation far outside normality.
What a fantastic programme which seems to actually be working!!!! God bless these poor people who are going through this and God bless the Dr's and staff who recognise the difficulties of addiction. I pray this will be a groundbreaking programme whose success will be replicated all over the world 🙏🏻
I'm not very knowledgeable about alcoholism but as just an average person watching this video, I like this idea. The place seems to have an attitude of caring and if traditional treatments haven't worked, the people can stabilise their addiction which is a way of having some kind of control over it, while maintaining some quality of life in other ways, e.g. eating meals and being in a supportive environment with some medical attention. From the sounds of it, most of these people don't stop drinking even after they leave, which I think is a shame but it seems better than living on the street.
I live in Minnesota, and have lived in a "a wet house". There are three in my state. It served its purpose, and now straightened out my life. It served its purpose for my demographic.
You don't know what you're talking about. The only reason people on methadone and suboxone don't get stoned is because they are tolerant. It is, however, still very easy for people on methadone to misuse their methadone and alter their consciousness. For example, when they get their weekly doses to take home, they could double or triple dose. Methadone and suboxone are most certainly mind-altering. Alcoholics can drink quite a bit before appearing altered at all, for exactly the same reason: tolerance. The people in this program are only given enough alcohol to feel normal. If they appear inebriated, then they are cut off. Methadone programs are similar. If you go to your methadone doctor and are falling asleep in front of him, then you'd probably have your dose lowered. Seriously, you don't know what you're talking about. Do you not know what tolerance is?
Jenna Fine not mind altering? Have you ever lived with someone on suboxone....i have...it was horrible...just as bad as the freaking other drugs. He only wanted to take because it made him feel high...then when the high subsided he was done with it.
Also to be on suboxone or methadone you have to participate in a drug program and see a drug Counslor. I heard nothing in this program about group or any kind of drug program.
8 spolnik I’m on 100 mgs a day. I remember getting messed up off 10 mgs of methadone 12 years ago when I had first taken it on the street at the start of my opioid abuse. That’s 1/10th of what I take now. I’d surely imagine it would kill anyone without a tolerance. Yet I don’t feel anything from it, I just notice it staves off withdrawals. I can take four of my doses and still function properly. That would be 40 times what used to mess me up when K started abusing opioids. Tolerance is a funny thing. I’ve taken six doses before and started to get sleepy in front of people, so four or five is the max I can handle and still function normally. But then I get violently ill once I run out for the week and have been kicked back to daily for it. Now I’ve worked my way back to weekly and have even started to go only once every two weeks. I don’t take more than one a day anymore. I’m focused on being stable and getting ahead in work. Eventually I intend to ween off.
how can you say that, after the methadone comparison, anyway these guys have been through that. abstinence is the goal, not a method that works with long term alcoholics.
Fukai Kokoro agreed. Some people are too sick to abstain. Maintenance is sometimes life saving. I got lucky and I am so grateful to be in total recovery. 😊
Abstinence with a program is highly successful but the trouble is most alcoholics dont want to work a program and they are reluctant to put in half of the effort into a program that they would put into getting a drink. People say that 12 step abstinence programs dont work for every alcoholic and the trouble is the alcoholic is supposed to work the program instead of the program working for them...
@@ansoncritchlow1770 as someone who’s in recovery your statement is bs. Some people are mentally so unwell they can’t “work the program” or are more introverted and groups don’t work for them.. nothing wrong with that. also IMO majority of AA or NA meetings I’ve been to have felt more like a cult and made me super uncomfortable. A lot of people where they very nice, and it became a toxic clique. They picked and choose who to be nice to. Also I’ve had my privacy violated. People who had seen me in meetings screaming across parking lots that they missed me last meeting. It was embarrassing.
@LadyKatie How do you know? Have you been through those specific programs? Have they failed you before? Have you ever been addicted to anything? Do you do drugs? Do you drink alcohol, which is a drug? I'm asking seriously because I want to know why you say the programs don't work!
Brett Mitchell As someone who has been on a methadone treatment program since last October, I can tell you that it DOES work! I have been able to rebuild my life (going back to college after dropping out, holding down a steady job, etc.) with the help of methadone and, for that, I am so grateful. Obviously my experience with methadone isn’t the same as everyone else who’s been in/currently on a treatment program, but it can work effectively. I’m living proof.
Methadone really doesn't mess you up though, unless you're a light user than you can get a buzz. Im all for alternative treatments. I think all drugs should be taxed and legalized.
It's a tough and rough situation I have the end of Stage 3 begging of 4 Only by God's mercy and grace I am still here I pray that God takes that desire away , may God bless you and give your Family strength 🙏🏼
15:25 man that whole talk was emotional, you can clearly see him reliving what he's gone through while he's speaking and would wish the same fate on absolutely no one.
Harm reduction is effective. I was a heroin addict for 20 years, after getting on methadone maintenance ive been clean for a year. I have a job, apartment, and a future.
I lived downtown for ten years at these place's and I know some of these people and been in jail with them. My own personal struggles were different (drugs) but ends in the same spots jails, institutions or death. There is only one proven solution to these issues for the person suffering and that's that the person must find some power greater then themselves, and that is much harder then it sounds. There might be one or two of them that move on from this place and change their life to not include alcohol, the rest will die there or on the street! Like the doctor said if chemo doesn't work they don't just kick the cancer patient out of the hospital they care for the person, this place cares for alcoholics. And the residents pay to be there and for there alcohol!!!! This place is a great place it helps people. People that are chronic alcoholics and drug addicts are considered criminals, why?, because due to their various problems they sometimes in desperation or not they break the laws and are sent to prison, those same people sober wouldn't even consider breaking the law, point is these people are not throw away's, they just need help!!
". . . but ends in the same spots jails, institutions or death." That AA/NA/CA mantra is bullshit. Most alcoholics and addicts do not end up in jail forever; institutionalized forever or dead from their addiction. Most do end up giving up their addictions. I think that using bullshit scare tactics is counter-productive.
Abstinence may work for some people but you can't stick up your nose at them. This works for them, that's all that matters. What works for you works for you. What works for someone else works for them!
Seems like a crazy idea--especially with no apparent limit on their length of stay--but it clearly has its merits. People need a (reliable) roof over their heads each night, hot meals and socialization as a foundation to begin the hard work of rebuilding their lives. I think this program provides dignity and stability for people stuck in the addiction cycle. I just wish they had a process to taper down the wine-to-water ratio. Sidebar: I have fallen in love with Jimmie, what a sweet soul! I hope he's doing well.
I watch a lot of documentaries and news reports from Canada and Australia. I think the reporting is a very high standed. The mind sets in dealing well, with everything is right, when you have these social problems, research, in and finding good positive and on going salutions. Very admirable. Each person was LOVED when they entered the world. Now they vilify the person not the underlying problems. addiction is the modern evil. As is all those that deal in this slow death.
I used to physically need a drink around the clock like these people. It was frightening. Withdrawal was terrifying and sometimes I needed two drinks - rapidly - to make withdrawal go away.
Everybody who says how do they afford it. It comes out of their social welfare, and also saves costs of emergency services. Good for them it helps them
Whatever you don't don't don't get on Suboxone our another stuff to help you stop don't do it 🙏 I'm telling you it's just a nether thing unwil have to overcome
Alcohol is a slow train but ultimately its destination is the same. So many intermediate health problems that alcohol can cause. Mostly gastrointestinal pancreatic and hepatic failure. MAT is also how the methadone programs for heroin work. This program is very humane. Studies show the body does better if person is eating regularly. It also shows social support can help people. What a win win for everyone. What a concept restoring dignity.
A place like this would've been a dream come true for me when I was drinking. It's what I'd have needed because in everything I done or tried, I never felt like I belonged anywhere and in there, you might just stand a chance of becoming part of something resembling a community. That's all I was looking for in life, a feeling that I belonged somewhere, but I never felt that and the booze compensated for it. Most places I went, I was treated like crap, ignored, pushed into the background or walked over despite what I did to try and fit in. Very rarely, I'd meet someone who treated me like a human being and that's all I needed out of life. Wasn't asking much was it? But people can be pure rotten but by now I may have met them all...
@@cjpanneck Yes, I'm ok, certainly a lot better than I ever was when I was drinking. I'm sober nearly 12 years now, have been working for local council for the past 5 years and am generally happier. If you've had similar problems and experiences like in the video, I would hope that you too are well.
I hate to bring a tone of negativity to this... but I'm very slowly drinking myself to death (up to a bottle of spirits a day from a bottle of wine a day within the space of a year) because I honestly see a world that is going crazier by the day and collapsing around my ears - a world that no longer makes sense to me, and that it doesn't bother me about leaving. I have a very demanding but very rewarding job. I work with young adults with learning disabilities. To me, they are the most important people on earth. They're marginalised. They're innocent. They're damaged. But they're also some of the finest human beings I've ever met. They don't judge me, except positively through the care I give them and the way I make them laugh and sing. They don't gossip about me or back-stab. They bring joy to my life with their laughter and smiles. They're almost like my pet cat, showing absolute loyalty, devotion, and love. They're not greedy or selfish. They're not hung up on their phones, or addicted to social media. They're humanity at its purest. They're what humanity is all about. But the other pressures of life drive me to drink too much. I'm not long for this world, I know that. I get up every morning, go in, do my job as best I can, then come home and get drunk. I'll continue to do that... until something happens and I'm either unable to do that any more, or am simply not around to do that any more. It may sound sad... but it's my way of getting through the days. Trying to make a difference where I can, then sending myself into temporary oblivion. That way, i manage. That way, life is bearable. My message is... don't worry about the new car, the bigger house, the next holiday, that new pair of shoes that you don't really need. Just do good to others, whilst you still can.
You sound like you blame everything on everybody else but you, it also seems you can‘t accept how OTHER people live and have chosen to live they’re life. This might be the result of your rising alcoholism and an ongoing period of anxiety and depression. Quitting will confront you with the real reality and you will start to notice the good things about life. Stay strong
As someone who worked in a rehab clinic i gotta say, only 3 bottles of wine a day is quite low by an alcoholics standards so this place must be doing a good job of weaning people off.
I chose recovery through abstinence. But not for lack of trying for over 20 years prior to that. I'm lucky I didn't die and circumstances were such that I had people looking out for me when I was in my active addiction. I commend anyone who reaches out and helps everyone without judgment. Bless them all on their journey...whatever that looks like. 🙏🏼💖☮
I so LOVE Jimmy and his song!! No one understands what an intractable disease alcoholism is. It is a craving one cannot explain, even remotely. I love this Doc's treatment program: seriously, cause D.T.'S are enough to KILL anyone. Thank you "The Fifth Estate" for an very interesting upload. love, m
Maureen: It's not just the D.T.s but it's the sweating and horrific nightmares and hallucinations during withdrawal:I have been there twice..never again !
I myself being an alcoholic about to go to rehab again for the 11th time in just a few hours I wish we had treatment like this in the states the twelve steps isn't for everyone it's nice to see a new approach
A lot of people don't realise just how dangerous quitting booze cold turkey is. People often die from it, if not become permanently disabled from massive seizures. Programs like this save lives.
I wish I could hug them all, tell them they are worthy and lovable and necessary. I also wish I could show them how Cannabis can help them feel human again without needing anything else. To anyone going through addiction of any kind, know that you have a disease and successful treatment for it grows out of the ground.
Cannabis is also addictive. Like any drug, it can be more addictive for some than others. I do not think that cannabis is anywhere near an ideal medication for alcoholics. Yes, it might help some reduce their drinking and is certainly less harmful than alcohol, but there are FAR better pharmacological treatments for alcoholics. Severe alcoholics can benefit from disulfiram, which prevents the body from metabolizing alcohol to acetic acid. Instead, alcohol gets stuck at the acetaldehyde stage and makes anyone who drinks very sick. Naltrexone, a long-acting narcotic antagonist can be very effective for alcoholism. For short term detoxification, benzodiazepines can help alleviate withdrawal symptoms. Cannabis might help reduce harm for some, but it has its own addiction liability and there are far better drugs for treating alcoholism.
For some perhaps and for others, a plant works very well for them. Keep in mind that for some of us Cannabis manages the trauma or emotional pain that brings us to drink. Pills work for about half of us, and alternatives work for the rest of us. Because of our personal rights and freedoms in Canada, we can see what works for each of our biology now with the legal cannabis program the acmpr.
Yep and alcohol comes from nature too. Something being natural doesn't mean it's always good for you. And what works for you will not always work for others. Smoking pot is not what I would recommend here. Especially as so many have mental health issues and pot and that do NOT go well together.
Really? I work with Doctors who assess and prescribe cannabis for mental illness every day. I think you're uneducated on this topic. What you must remember is that what works for one of us, will not work for all. For some, INGESTING (so many ways other than smoking) Cannabis is successful treatment for many of us. Google is your friend. I work at www.canadiancannabisclinics.ca
Dianna I would love to know the name of a doctor who is prescribing pot for treating mental illness. What conditions do they do this to treat? I'm talking about conditions that have any tendency towards psychosis. Would you agree that it's not suitable in these cases? Ie: Bi Polar, Schizophrenia etc.
As a recovering alcoholic, with early alz, I dk if it's related but I've stopped drinking 100% this past summer. My health, energy, memory, is coming back. So has my wife, and daughter. Thanks to the rehab centers and doctors. No thanks to one of my brother in law who likes to point out my flaws, show everyone my text, reviews, that I put out online to show to everyone how pitiful, weak, I am.
The other thing people seem to miss is that often drug treatment programs or harm reduction programs can greatly reduce the cost to society. Like needle exchange programs might be paid for using tax dollars, but they save huge costs to the medical system by helping prevent the spread of infectious diseases. I know, it's sad though that so many people are more concerned with their wallets than the lives of others and the overall health of society. People don't scream bloody murder about the cost to taxpayers done by cigarette smoking and consuming alcohol, but when the government tries to do something to reduce those costs, THAT is when people get upset! It makes no sense. Not treating chronic alcoholism costs more money to everyone, but when the government does nothing, people don't complain. When the government tries to save money by implementing preventative measures or harm reduction measures, then people flip out. If people just thought it through a little then they should see that these measures could actually end up saving a lot of tax dollars.
That is such a stupid assumption. She values human life more than a few of her tax dollars. You're assuming that she doesn't pay taxes because you don't understand how someone could care about other people more than tax dollars. Harm reduction programs often save tax payers a lot more money than incarceration or "tough love."
Plus these people would cost the public more money wrt the costs to the health dept, law enforcement etc. As someone who has been on pharmacotherapy for many years I am living proof that harm reduction works.
Only 1 addict out of 100 will be successful with abstinence based AA programs. Why traditional AA is so praised and recommended is beyond me. 1 out of 100! We must acknowledge that what is being done now does not work. It seems so common sense to taper the drug or alcohol, while addressing the issues that causes them to use initially, first.
People love to quote percentages about the perceived efficacy of Alcoholics Anonymous, because of what they’ve heard. In most cases they have very little, to no real experience. It’s “beyond” you, because you haven’t bothered to spend enough time talking to people with long term sobriety. If you really want to know something about the power of AA, read the story of former Northwest Airlines captain Lyle Prouse. Best wishes to you.
@@markg.4246 I’m not saying that AA doesn’t work for anyone but it doesn’t work for everyone. If it worked for you that’s awesome but not everyone studies the same way, trains for sports the same way, relaxes the same way or diets the same way. Then why should everyone have to attain sobriety the same way? I think AA has become a religion onto itself and it’s followers are insistent that their path to salvation is the only way and everyone else is a blasphemous infidel and that’s just ignorant
Trauma Is what's killing addicts. Alcohol and drugs are what we addicts use to treat our trauma. Meetings meetings meetings, addicts and helping addicts is one of the best solutions and by that I mean you can be an addict but clean and sober for 25-30 years. We were born this way.
I worked at a recovery center for addicts and alcoholics I believed in using everything in the tool box at the addiction , I see no deference between alcohol and a drug , alcohol is a drug , and this is a war you could say its a world wide pandemic , I've know of at least 20 some people , personality that have lost their life due to there addiction , there are no easy answers in this war but if you have it in you , to show compassion to your brother or sister in need , God Bless you and there is nothing wrong in helping to ease some ones suffering , some day the societal ill's that make people want to escape from the pressures of it need to be addressed .
I would love to work there. Always wanted to move to Canada anyway. I think the program is phenomenal. I know everyone doesn't agree with the program. But there are alot that do. I am so glad these people are getting help. Thanks for helping these people. Please let me know how to put an application in. Thanks😊
Sometimes you got to take drastic measures but my problem with this, and I've been on methadone for a while before. My problem with this is that alcohol is actually poisonous and damaging to the body. I think like a benzodiazepine replacement therapy would be better because at least it's not going to ruin your liver. God bless all these lost souls.. I love how compassionate and open-minded the journalist was
Me too. I felt bad for Jimmy. You could tell that while he had surrendered to the alcohol, he was ashamed and dreamed of a better life. On the other hand, I had absolutely no sympathy for the young native dude with the stitches in his forehead. To him, it was just a 24 hour, free party. I wanted to shake him. Growing up, that guy knew that he was genetically vulnerable to alcohol. This does sound correct to say...but why didn't he pick a different habit? Grass or something... I have an aboriginal friend who has told me that from childhood, he knew that he could never, ever drink alcohol. Not even taste it. His whole immediate and extended family consisted of hardcore alcoholics. Today, at 36 year old, my friend Carl still hasn't tasted alcohol, tea, coffee or caffeine. Instead, he drinks caffeine free pop like Sprite and 7Up and smokes cigarettes. That is a heck of a lot better than drinking...Especially since he already knew the outcome. ..Up here in Canada, the government can't even send hand sanitizer to the aboriginal reserves during major flu outbreaks. Why? Unfortunately, most reserves have had major problems with their citizens drinking every last drop of the hand sanitizer. So sad....
A good idea, God be with you Jimmy(and others) one day at a time, the Big Book really does help, I know a few here who swear by its efficacy. There is no cure, only treatment, for the foreseeable future. A stabilizing program has been in force for many years in Whitehorse.
My mom’s an alcoholic. My dad’s too scared of her temper to seriously challenge her on her drinking, and she won’t be honest with me about how much she drinks, but I’m still trying to help her. I’ve been trying to get her into THC, “California sober” as it’s called, because we’re in a legalized state and I know she isn’t going to stay off booze without something to replace it. She doesn’t think she needs professional help, and I can’t force her to seek it. Sometimes harm reduction is the only thing that saves people. It can give them some stability, and show them change IS possible.
4 года назад+2
This must be carried by society. We need this in the States.
Long term, forced abstinence only causes the Alcohol Deprivation Effect which virtually relapse. Abstinence is not the only way. Research The Sinclair Method, a clinically proven way to cure Alcohol Use Disorder using targeted dosage of a cheap, non addictive opiate antagonist - Naltrexone.
This could be you, or your parent, your sibling or your neighbour. Alcohol can harm anyone. And it's more widespread than most people believe. This seems like a sensible solution.
I could be one of them. But I had people take care of me at my lowest when I really didn’t deserve it. You can’t get away from alcohol. It’s everywhere, on billboards, in commercials. Even the sound of a can opening is a trigger for me, no lie.
My heart ❤️ pours for these precious beautiful humans thank GOD FOR SHEPHERDS HOUSE and the doctor and the people who run The Oaks YALL ate just wonderful 🙏🥰❤️🩹
It's easy and lazy to think of alcohol as the problem, but the problem began way before alcohol was used to medicate and suppress, who knows, what horror and unimaginable harm these people endured when younger.
As a recovering alcoholic, I do not choose to drink period yet this can save so so so many people. This needs to be EVERYWHERE
Yes it does .how are you doing
No, sorry, but giving drunks booze only exaggerates the problem. We've already tested this theory and it doesn't work. It is an abject failure. It doesn't save them, it doesn't help them seek lasting change, it doesn't reduce harm overall. It is the opposite effect. This is just killing vulnerable people slowly.
If you go to detox, you choose to take the next drink.
I think this is a great idea, roofs over their heads, not rolling drunk. Come on people, don't judge this program.
You probably support MAID, Canada has become a joke
Agree. A lot of these people would be dead otherwise
I was also thinking of how many live are being saved but tuis method.
@@She91Magicsounds like you've been drinking
This is a substantially better alternative to dying on the streets. Doesn’t even compare. I’m grateful this exists for people whom are unable to conform to standard treatments. This program should be implemented in EVERY city.
No.
@@mp5249 Cheers🥂
@@mp5249Yes. Programs like this are saving lives.
False dichotomy. There is a third option where we help the needy without perpetuating their horrible life. This is really obvious.
This is a joke.
Before I watched this I would have said the idea of treating alcoholics with alcohol was insane!!! As a recovering alcoholic who is abstinent I see alcohol as being pure poison for me. But for those who can't maintain complete sobriety it's better to have some semblance of a life (with a bit of security and a sense of community) than none at all. And I can think of so many possible savings to tax payers- as they said- less police intervention, emergency medical services, and less burden on the penal system. But it may also allow for savings in the court, housing, education and child welfare systems, if you consider how the residents of this program could impact their communities if they receive no help at all. In this case an imperfect solution is better than doing nothing.
butterscotch leopold l agree sir. The lesser of two evils
I AGREE!
Well said
Totally agree! The Oaks is a progressive solution to the many issues that can plague the life of an alcoholic. Housing, Loneliness, Healthcare, Nutrition, etc...In the world of addiction, I almost look at this “wine therapy” in the same way that medication assisted therapy (MAT), such as Suboxone or Methadone, is prescribed for an opiate addict when all other therapy including abstinence has failed. These medications attach to the same receptor sites in the brain as the drug of choice did but doesn’t produce the same high (like the wine prescribed by the doctor didn’t make the patients drunk, only curbed their symptoms of withdrawal). In turn, the person, is well and has the opportunity to function and live a full and happy life. I hope people can get past the initial stigma and embrace this new way of treating alcoholism. It would be great if there were more options out there for those who have been through traditional treatment and failed.
if you see it purely from a medical perspective. its a chemical they are addicted to. they need to have it, and it dosed so they do nt take too much. this is a good idea.
As a psych RN with alcoholics in my family, I love this. Such special people helping those at their lowest.
I’m a psych nurse too. My mom is one too and she’s one of the most beautiful souls I’ve ever known.
It's true that you can't save them all. I like the analogy to palliative care. Even though someone in hospice doesn't have much of a life left and are dying, you don't dispose of them. You make whatever life they do have less painful and more dignified.
One thing that really stuck out to me: Irwin, so ashamed of his current situation and away from his children, lighting up and beaming when sharing that its his friends birthday and he does the Terry Fox run. What an interesting and heartfelt display of humanity.
Sadly, I have seen or know most of the people shown, in the centre or on the street. I live in the Byward Market and have gotten to know a lot of the street people, they are human and need care and dignity like the rest of us.
Kudos... I really can't praise this enough. This is a fantastic programme and It should be extended to drugs. I know people will say it's bad to give them alcohol, but it's far better than the alternative. They're drinking less, they're eating properly, and they have a roof over their head. Canada and Belgium are so forward thinking. We should have this in the UK!!
Agreed, this is such an interesting concept.
Yes and in the states. I live in New Mexico and a program like this would be a saving grace for many.
I agree. It might seem counter-intuitive to give alcohol to an alcaholic but for those with hardened addictions, at this late stage, I think it's really nice that they are in some sense being accepted by those around them, which perhaps they never have felt before.
I don't think we have the money to run it here in England. I am rather suspicious that it's simply an elaborate pub trick. I kind of just looks like a pub, but with the Dr. And, Social Services involved. Certainly looks good for business as a pub, but perhaps after some time that pub might close. Then what? A cafe? Folks need to socialize somewhere. It's a bit of a shame, it's always focused on the alcohol. Although, I imagine that bar work is that skilled.
Doing it with drugs as well is taking pandering to folks weaknesses a bit too far.
Certainly it's a very complex problem. A job for, a Barperson, a Dr and a Social Worker plus 1000 tax payers perhaps.
Nice that you are talking about this my Countryman.
People, who are involved with certain drugs and alcohol are always quite close to death.
Because of the Therapeutic Index.
I have researched alcohol and drug use, out of respect for companions.
It's incredible, how close to death those folks are, with the Class A drugs and also Alcohol.
With our class system for contrlled drugs. Would you agree that Alcoholic drinks, rank alongside Class A drugs of Opioid substances. I won't even say their names actually.
Because that's like marketing. However, I would like to say. I don't really have a clue. I am not a Barperson or whatever really.
@@MrRobertFarr You don't have to say their names. I'm 30+ years into an opiate addiction that feels I'm never going to come out from & the only help here is to swap it for something far worse 🤷🏻♀️ I have COPD because of how long I've been smoking all the crap mixed up with it. To answer your question I think alcohol & benzodiazepines (valium etc) are worse than heroin for example. The withdrawal from those 2 things can kill you, whereas with heroin & anything else the withdrawal effects although bad are not as dangerous
That Doctor has a big heart. Great man.
One of the sweetest, kindest and smartest men I have ever known, my Grandfather, was a chronic alcoholic! Thank God my Grandmother stuck by his side and he never ended up on the streets, because if he had I would have barely known him before he passed away.
For the native gentleman who also changed the bedding, please don't hide yourself from your boys! Even if all you can do right now is to write to them, do so and tell them about yourself, your dreams, and how much you love them, and that you stayed away because you love them, and for sure make sure they know how easy it is for natives to become addicted and how the next generation has a higher chance of addiction and to just stay away from anything addictive.
For Jimmy you are I believe as sweet hearted as my grandfather!
For both men mentioned and to all there including the staff, you are special, you are wanted, you are a blessing to many even if you don't believe so, and you are all inspirational!!!!
ALL of my love and the love, blessings and grace of our LORD GOD ALMIGHTY, our SAVIOUR, unto you and yours, today, tomorrow and for always!!!
After watching this documentary, I am actually on board with this program…it’s a wonderful plan of action for those folks who absolutely cannot give it up. I’m proud to say that I got sober 9 years ago and I’m holding steady. Good luck to all the folks in this program…it’s nice to see them socializing, living life and drinking much less. 👍👏💖
isnt it great when your able to use your brain to figure out wether something is right or not unlike these extremists that dont know anything about alcoholism
My Dad drank hard liquor all his life. He switched to wine in his 60's. He still drinks wine every day but only a half bottle or so.
He just turned 90 and is in good health. He walks an hour and a half every day. He'll never stop drinking but switching to wine not only cut down his drinking but probably saved his life.
Wow, so you can be an alcoholic and live a decent life!
1 in a million
That's called a "functioning alcoholic" he probably had a family to take care of.
@@hotwheels1838There's many functioning addicts and/or alcoholics. It's the really the difference of having self control and choosing to use or not having the control.
What is your dad's diet? I'm curious because living to 90 especially while drinking is not common
I like Luchea who does the pouring. You can tell she’s seen a lot in this world, but she’s still kind. God bless her.
Amen.
Felt so sorry for Jimi you can see and hear his pain ❤
She's a good soul, you can tell she has a servant's heart but also knows what she's about and won't stand for any nonsense.
I work in an alcohol treatment facility. The fact that this place can keep severe alcoholics away from getting rip roaring drunk is nothing short of incredible. This documentary has forced me to rethink how we treat alcoholics. There is no one falling over. There is no one puking. There are no fights.
And there are 40 people not needing emergency services especially when it is cold in Canda. Good program. A would like a volunteer way of these people reducing their consumption after being there for a while. Also love to see it expand
Glad to see the comment section is not completely full of cancer. Faith in humanity temporarily restored.
That's because of RUclips filters. Believe me, your faith is misplaced.
@User0000000000000004 youtube doesn't filter much when it comes to comments, you've clearly never been on RUclips long😂😂😂
Harm reduction saves lives AND money.
War wastes lives, and money.
I agree
I wish more people understood that investing in the vulnerable is actually profitable for society.
I am a social worker and YES! I agree and would love to have a program like this in my state.
@@aj5690 it's not profitable for society...it does reduce the impact on everyone else though
No need to go commit crime to support an addiction.. especially with drugs, also it means less money in the pockets of organized crime
Use to be an alcoholic. I switched my core paradigms about drinking and that worked very well for me. I'm not against alcohol -I'm very much for health. In fact, let's say this: I was never addicted to alcohol, I was addicted to the illusions alcohol promised.
used to be???? you either are or aint!! alcoholism is a lifelong disease
What does switched my core paradigms mean and how do you do it
@@curtiswhitener1616 what’s crazy is I don’t even drink I was on h i been off of it for three years but I’m on subutex and been trying to quit I felt like these people I take a pill to feel normal I’m going to quit tomorrow I have been working my way down wish me luck
wise man
Same
I love harm reduction! I want it in Texas. I'd like to participate in helping those struggling to overcome this deadly disease however I can. It is possible to survive and lead a full life. I'm living proof. Thank you for this story, keep showing harm reduction with love. Tough love doesn't work. It creates additional guilt enabling those who suffer to continue in their disease. They need empathy compassion & real help.
I have a friend who died in detox. There is such a moral perspective on drinking that it has to be all or nothing in the rehab world. There is a massive physical addiction that can be ignored in the face of this moral judgement. There needs to be more middle ground. Maybe this is it.
Let alone doing drugs.
in terms of physical dependence, alcohol is almost unique in that withdrawals can be readily fatal, delirium tremens has a mortality rate of 5-10% each time. I've had it twice, and let me tell you..... your body remembers, and lets you know youre at risk of dying@@eustab.anas-mann9510
I'm an alcoholic it's very difficult to come off cause it's legal
As a recovering alcoholic and addict I can relate to all of this harm reduction is better than been full blown drinking it's not a nice place to be when you havnt even got the motivation to wash yourself god bless everyone 🙏🙏
I hate that the clinic was attacked by people who simply couldn't think outside the box. This is awesome.
Humans are horrible about addiction.
I thought very seriously about this when I started watching, but I too think this programme is awesome. Why? Because we live in a world of duality - we can't have good without bad, up without down etc. So just as total abstinence is at one end of the spectrum, at the other end we have some who will always need alcohol and I have not yet seen a more compassionate way of dealing with this extreme opposite end of the spectrum. And before I too am judged for being "wishy-washy" by the will-power group, I lived with an alcoholic who eventually got cirrhosis of the liver and who is now abstinent but has to live with a permanent stent in his 50% functioning liver in order to drain fluids from his body. He is back living with me BTW. With addictions there is always room for various help programmes because you cannot have a one fit solution for humanity. This centre has the courage and honesty to face the reality of duality. May there grow more of them.
People hate anything that reminds them of their weaknesses
I'm so blown away by how many people in this comment section are super positive and in total support of this program. I expected so many stuck ups saying cruel things....but no! Well done and bloody good on you all ;)
My heart breaks for these guys. They all seem so nice, and the social worker guy is great. I love Jimmy
Jimmy is my grandpa
I think this is a great idea. I'm a recovering alcoholic..16 months sober.
Well done Irene 👍
@@sandrapower3250 thankyou coming up to 2 years now
That's awesome!
Nice one Hun 36 here been on the stuff since 2008
My sister's husband died from drinking himself to death, he was a chronic alcoholic. Hard liquor everyday...all day. Slowly but surely. And we knew it. But nothing we said made any difference. He died at only 41. RIP Johnny
Shyann1 same thing happened to a friend of mine in his early fifties, watched him switch from beer to vodka and died within a year!
Shyann1 A good friend of mine was an alcoholic since high school and died just before his 32nd birthday. Probably went through rehab and detox a dozen times over about 10 years. I wonder if he'd still be here if he had a place like this.
@ EnviroSocial,.. I doubt it. Some people can stop. But their are those hard caseswhere nothing u say or do can help them. I don't understand that sort of powerful pull. Maybe those are the ones who give up on life and have no hope left. Maybe they are in tremendous emotional pain. I don't know what keeps those hardcore addicts, other than maybe it's like a certain switch is turned on and won't shut off ? A lot of things at play here. Im sorry to hear about ur friend. Blessings ~ xx
@ caryn martin,... ya, it's a sad thing watching others destroy themselves and we cant help them. They have to want to dig deep down inside to help themselves. But the very least I can say is they are not suffering anymore from living that way. Sorry to hear the loss of ur friend. God Bless ~ xx
What keeps people addicted is that chronic exposure to a drug causes changes in the brain. Addiction changes the way a person thinks and feels. Addiction changes a person's brain so they feel intensely driven to get their drug. Addicts do not necessarily have something else "wrong" with them. Plenty of addicts become addicts by experimenting with or using drugs recreationally and not realizing that they're addicted before it's too late.
I could get into the neurobiology of addiction more if you want. It's pretty interesting, but just keep in mind that since it changes a person's brain, that's why it isn't really possible for addicts to "just quit." The psychic and emotional forces that they experience, driving them back to the drug, are coming from within the person but are the result of adaptations to chronic exposure to a drug. These adaptations take place at the cellular and subcellular level in the brain.
I have 7 years sober. Thank GOD
Quitters never prosper
Jimmy is the sweetest thing ever, i hope he is well now...poor guy.
Jimmy is my grandpa he is an amazing man, owned his own business and taught me so much
@@Strength1111 I love his spirit! What a blessing to have him as a grandpa ❤
This is way better and healthier than them drinking rubbing alcohol and mouth wash.
when i was desperate and drank mouthwash it felt like someone took there hand shoved it down my throat my body was like naw dog im good and made me throw up so violently i thought my eyes were going to pop out of my head
And not disturbing the peace
@@Coockiez-007 I've drank rubbing alcohol before and kids, don't try this at home. Trust me, it will fvck you up.
The most addictive drug in the world, I bet there's not many of us who could give up drinking for a month never mind a life time, hats off to all who are recovering,
yep..only disease thats bottled and sold = money for the government..try heroin and cocaine..now thats addictive 1000 times more than booze
My mother in law died of late stage cihrossis a few years ago & I wish she could have got into a program like this. We found her unconscious in her horrible apartment & she died a week later in palliative. She was in & out of rehab. This would have made her last months tolerable. Just to treat the physiological symptoms is sometimes the only option besides dying alone in a hoarded apartment, having first responders busting your door down frequently when you don't answer your door or phonecalls or dying in a clean facility amongst friends & caregivers. Treatment has a different face when it's an end-stage addiction. Make them comfortable in their last days. ❤
And for all the people whinging about "muh tax dollars" well, if you actually think about it (and it's mentioned throughout the doco) there's a huge amount of money being saved wrt the costs to the health department and law enforcement yhat would normally go towards dealing with these chronic alcoholics.
These are the people for whom normal treatment doesn't work. So stop applying typical boundaries to a situation far outside normality.
It's probably cheaper and safer to keep them drunk here than in a prison system or out driving on the street killing people.
The "Tax Dollar" brigade are only interested in what affects them, and would happily watch people die in the gutter.
It's miles cheaper, think of the cost saved in ambulance trips alone
so this idea is genius, house them get paid, make your own wine and charge them for it. GENIUS
I drink for 6 years every day
Now i felt so happy not to drink
Anymore..i totally understand is not easy
To stop drinking is to sad 😥
What a fantastic programme which seems to actually be working!!!! God bless these poor people who are going through this and God bless the Dr's and staff who recognise the difficulties of addiction. I pray this will be a groundbreaking programme whose success will be replicated all over the world 🙏🏻
"We've just got one more world to go." The optimism in that statement is remarkable. What a sweet, caring man.
I'm not very knowledgeable about alcoholism but as just an average person watching this video, I like this idea. The place seems to have an attitude of caring and if traditional treatments haven't worked, the people can stabilise their addiction which is a way of having some kind of control over it, while maintaining some quality of life in other ways, e.g. eating meals and being in a supportive environment with some medical attention. From the sounds of it, most of these people don't stop drinking even after they leave, which I think is a shame but it seems better than living on the street.
This is heartbreaking, but this simple program seems to work wonders. God bless these afflicted souls.
I live in Minnesota, and have lived in a "a wet house". There are three in my state. It served its purpose, and now straightened out my life. It served its purpose for my demographic.
no different than the suboxone and methadone programs, which are proven to have the best results
caryn martin not true. Those programs aren't mind altering the way alcohol is
You don't know what you're talking about.
The only reason people on methadone and suboxone don't get stoned is because they are tolerant. It is, however, still very easy for people on methadone to misuse their methadone and alter their consciousness. For example, when they get their weekly doses to take home, they could double or triple dose. Methadone and suboxone are most certainly mind-altering.
Alcoholics can drink quite a bit before appearing altered at all, for exactly the same reason: tolerance.
The people in this program are only given enough alcohol to feel normal. If they appear inebriated, then they are cut off.
Methadone programs are similar. If you go to your methadone doctor and are falling asleep in front of him, then you'd probably have your dose lowered.
Seriously, you don't know what you're talking about. Do you not know what tolerance is?
Jenna Fine not mind altering? Have you ever lived with someone on suboxone....i have...it was horrible...just as bad as the freaking other drugs. He only wanted to take because it made him feel high...then when the high subsided he was done with it.
Also to be on suboxone or methadone you have to participate in a drug program and see a drug Counslor. I heard nothing in this program about group or any kind of drug program.
8 spolnik I’m on 100 mgs a day. I remember getting messed up off 10 mgs of methadone 12 years ago when I had first taken it on the street at the start of my opioid abuse. That’s 1/10th of what I take now. I’d surely imagine it would kill anyone without a tolerance. Yet I don’t feel anything from it, I just notice it staves off withdrawals. I can take four of my doses and still function properly. That would be 40 times what used to mess me up when K started abusing opioids. Tolerance is a funny thing. I’ve taken six doses before and started to get sleepy in front of people, so four or five is the max I can handle and still function normally. But then I get violently ill once I run out for the week and have been kicked back to daily for it. Now I’ve worked my way back to weekly and have even started to go only once every two weeks. I don’t take more than one a day anymore. I’m focused on being stable and getting ahead in work. Eventually I intend to ween off.
This reminds me of methadone clinics. Risk reduction and generally works better than pure abstinence.
how can you say that, after the methadone comparison, anyway these guys have been through that. abstinence is the goal, not a method that works with long term alcoholics.
Fukai Kokoro agreed. Some people are too sick to abstain. Maintenance is sometimes life saving. I got lucky and I am so grateful to be in total recovery. 😊
Abstinence with a program is highly successful but the trouble is most alcoholics dont want to work a program and they are reluctant to put in half of the effort into a program that they would put into getting a drink. People say that 12 step abstinence programs dont work for every alcoholic and the trouble is the alcoholic is supposed to work the program instead of the program working for them...
@@ansoncritchlow1770 as someone who’s in recovery your statement is bs. Some people are mentally so unwell they can’t “work the program” or are more introverted and groups don’t work for them.. nothing wrong with that.
also IMO majority of AA or NA meetings I’ve been to have felt more like a cult and made me super uncomfortable. A lot of people where they very nice, and it became a toxic clique. They picked and choose who to be nice to.
Also I’ve had my privacy violated. People who had seen me in meetings screaming across parking lots that they missed me last meeting. It was embarrassing.
@@ansoncritchlow1770 you obviously have little understanding and even less compassion.
Reminds me of Methadone clinics. If this saves their lives, why not?
@LadyKatie How do you know? Have you been through those specific programs? Have they failed you before? Have you ever been addicted to anything? Do you do drugs? Do you drink alcohol, which is a drug? I'm asking seriously because I want to know why you say the programs don't work!
Brett Mitchell As someone who has been on a methadone treatment program since last October, I can tell you that it DOES work! I have been able to rebuild my life (going back to college after dropping out, holding down a steady job, etc.) with the help of methadone and, for that, I am so grateful. Obviously my experience with methadone isn’t the same as everyone else who’s been in/currently on a treatment program, but it can work effectively. I’m living proof.
@@steferly Way to go!!
@@steferly 👏👏👏
Methadone really doesn't mess you up though, unless you're a light user than you can get a buzz. Im all for alternative treatments. I think all drugs should be taxed and legalized.
It's a tough and rough situation I have the end of Stage 3 begging of 4
Only by God's mercy and grace I am still here I pray that God takes that desire away , may God bless you and give your Family strength 🙏🏼
Bless you sweetheart.
@@NurseSnow2U Thank you God bless you 🙏
15:25 man that whole talk was emotional, you can clearly see him reliving what he's gone through while he's speaking and would wish the same fate on absolutely no one.
I appreciate that the cop shared how his perspective had changed.
Harm reduction is effective. I was a heroin addict for 20 years, after getting on methadone maintenance ive been clean for a year. I have a job, apartment, and a future.
I lived downtown for ten years at these place's and I know some of these people and been in jail with them. My own personal struggles were different (drugs) but ends in the same spots jails, institutions or death. There is only one proven solution to these issues for the person suffering and that's that the person must find some power greater then themselves, and that is much harder then it sounds. There might be one or two of them that move on from this place and change their life to not include alcohol, the rest will die there or on the street! Like the doctor said if chemo doesn't work they don't just kick the cancer patient out of the hospital they care for the person, this place cares for alcoholics. And the residents pay to be there and for there alcohol!!!!
This place is a great place it helps people. People that are chronic alcoholics and drug addicts are considered criminals, why?, because due to their various problems they sometimes in desperation or not they break the laws and are sent to prison, those same people sober wouldn't even consider breaking the law, point is these people are not throw away's, they just need help!!
". . . but ends in the same spots jails, institutions or death."
That AA/NA/CA mantra is bullshit. Most alcoholics and addicts do not end up in jail forever; institutionalized forever or dead from their addiction. Most do end up giving up their addictions.
I think that using bullshit scare tactics is counter-productive.
"most end up giving up their addictions".....really, how did you come to that conclusion?
Vince Hughson In the end, alcohol is a drug isn't it? I liken this program to methadone treatment, controlled use of opioids for long term addicts.
we are the fortunate ones. those of us who we able to give up the addiction and find a new way to live.
Abstinence may work for some people but you can't stick up your nose at them. This works for them, that's all that matters. What works for you works for you. What works for someone else works for them!
Seems like a crazy idea--especially with no apparent limit on their length of stay--but it clearly has its merits. People need a (reliable) roof over their heads each night, hot meals and socialization as a foundation to begin the hard work of rebuilding their lives. I think this program provides dignity and stability for people stuck in the addiction cycle. I just wish they had a process to taper down the wine-to-water ratio. Sidebar: I have fallen in love with Jimmie, what a sweet soul! I hope he's doing well.
I liked the song.
I watch a lot of documentaries and news reports from Canada and Australia. I think the reporting is a very high standed. The mind sets in dealing well, with everything is right, when you have these social problems, research, in and finding good positive and on going salutions. Very admirable. Each person was LOVED when they entered the world. Now they vilify the person not the underlying problems. addiction is the modern evil. As is all those that deal in this slow death.
I used to physically need a drink around the clock like these people. It was frightening. Withdrawal was terrifying and sometimes I needed two drinks - rapidly - to make withdrawal go away.
Hope you're better now.
Everybody who says how do they afford it. It comes out of their social welfare, and also saves costs of emergency services. Good for them it helps them
I'm recovering and was afraid to watch this thinking it would trigger an idea in my head but this is for the people who will not recover.
Youre full of fear, shame and judgement.
Whatever you don't don't don't get on Suboxone our another stuff to help you stop don't do it 🙏 I'm telling you it's just a nether thing unwil have to overcome
Alcohol is a slow train but ultimately its destination is the same. So many intermediate health problems that alcohol can cause. Mostly gastrointestinal pancreatic and hepatic failure. MAT is also how the methadone programs for heroin work. This program is very humane. Studies show the body does better if person is eating regularly. It also shows social support can help people. What a win win for everyone. What a concept restoring dignity.
A place like this would've been a dream come true for me when I was drinking. It's what I'd have needed because in everything I done or tried, I never felt like I belonged anywhere and in there, you might just stand a chance of becoming part of something resembling a community. That's all I was looking for in life, a feeling that I belonged somewhere, but I never felt that and the booze compensated for it. Most places I went, I was treated like crap, ignored, pushed into the background or walked over despite what I did to try and fit in. Very rarely, I'd meet someone who treated me like a human being and that's all I needed out of life. Wasn't asking much was it? But people can be pure rotten but by now I may have met them all...
I hear you. And feel the same. Hope you are well. 🤗
@@cjpanneck Yes, I'm ok, certainly a lot better than I ever was when I was drinking. I'm sober nearly 12 years now, have been working for local council for the past 5 years and am generally happier. If you've had similar problems and experiences like in the video, I would hope that you too are well.
Out of all the methods this actually makes sense. If you were weened onto it you can be weened off it. Only an alcoholic would understand
Very well said. 👌🏻
I hate to bring a tone of negativity to this... but I'm very slowly drinking myself to death (up to a bottle of spirits a day from a bottle of wine a day within the space of a year) because I honestly see a world that is going crazier by the day and collapsing around my ears - a world that no longer makes sense to me, and that it doesn't bother me about leaving. I have a very demanding but very rewarding job. I work with young adults with learning disabilities. To me, they are the most important people on earth. They're marginalised. They're innocent. They're damaged. But they're also some of the finest human beings I've ever met. They don't judge me, except positively through the care I give them and the way I make them laugh and sing. They don't gossip about me or back-stab. They bring joy to my life with their laughter and smiles. They're almost like my pet cat, showing absolute loyalty, devotion, and love. They're not greedy or selfish. They're not hung up on their phones, or addicted to social media. They're humanity at its purest. They're what humanity is all about. But the other pressures of life drive me to drink too much. I'm not long for this world, I know that. I get up every morning, go in, do my job as best I can, then come home and get drunk. I'll continue to do that... until something happens and I'm either unable to do that any more, or am simply not around to do that any more. It may sound sad... but it's my way of getting through the days. Trying to make a difference where I can, then sending myself into temporary oblivion. That way, i manage. That way, life is bearable. My message is... don't worry about the new car, the bigger house, the next holiday, that new pair of shoes that you don't really need. Just do good to others, whilst you still can.
You sound like you blame everything on everybody else but you, it also seems you can‘t accept how OTHER people live and have chosen to live they’re life.
This might be the result of your rising alcoholism and an ongoing period of anxiety and depression. Quitting will confront you with the real reality and you will start to notice the good things about life.
Stay strong
You still alive?
As someone who worked in a rehab clinic i gotta say, only 3 bottles of wine a day is quite low by an alcoholics standards so this place must be doing a good job of weaning people off.
Fascinating. Love and compassion is always the right answer.
I chose recovery through abstinence.
But not for lack of trying for over 20 years prior to that.
I'm lucky I didn't die and circumstances were such that I had people looking out for me when I was in my active addiction.
I commend anyone who reaches out and helps everyone without judgment.
Bless them all on their journey...whatever that looks like. 🙏🏼💖☮
I so LOVE Jimmy and his song!! No one understands what an intractable disease alcoholism is. It is a craving one cannot explain, even remotely. I love this Doc's treatment program: seriously, cause D.T.'S are enough to KILL anyone. Thank you "The Fifth Estate" for an very interesting upload. love, m
Maureen: It's not just the D.T.s but it's the sweating and horrific nightmares and hallucinations during withdrawal:I have been there twice..never again !
Jimmy is my grandpa
I myself being an alcoholic about to go to rehab again for the 11th time in just a few hours I wish we had treatment like this in the states the twelve steps isn't for everyone it's nice to see a new approach
How much and what kind of alcohol were you/are you drinking on a daily basis,that you considered yourself an alcoholic?
How did it go, man?
A lot of people don't realise just how dangerous quitting booze cold turkey is. People often die from it, if not become permanently disabled from massive seizures. Programs like this save lives.
This is brilliant! I am in full support of this program, and programs like it!!!
This story really touched me. Compassion wins, every time!
I wish I could hug them all, tell them they are worthy and lovable and necessary. I also wish I could show them how Cannabis can help them feel human again without needing anything else. To anyone going through addiction of any kind, know that you have a disease and successful treatment for it grows out of the ground.
Cannabis is also addictive. Like any drug, it can be more addictive for some than others. I do not think that cannabis is anywhere near an ideal medication for alcoholics. Yes, it might help some reduce their drinking and is certainly less harmful than alcohol, but there are FAR better pharmacological treatments for alcoholics.
Severe alcoholics can benefit from disulfiram, which prevents the body from metabolizing alcohol to acetic acid. Instead, alcohol gets stuck at the acetaldehyde stage and makes anyone who drinks very sick.
Naltrexone, a long-acting narcotic antagonist can be very effective for alcoholism.
For short term detoxification, benzodiazepines can help alleviate withdrawal symptoms.
Cannabis might help reduce harm for some, but it has its own addiction liability and there are far better drugs for treating alcoholism.
For some perhaps and for others, a plant works very well for them. Keep in mind that for some of us Cannabis manages the trauma or emotional pain that brings us to drink. Pills work for about half of us, and alternatives work for the rest of us. Because of our personal rights and freedoms in Canada, we can see what works for each of our biology now with the legal cannabis program the acmpr.
Yep and alcohol comes from nature too. Something being natural doesn't mean it's always good for you. And what works for you will not always work for others. Smoking pot is not what I would recommend here. Especially as so many have mental health issues and pot and that do NOT go well together.
Really? I work with Doctors who assess and prescribe cannabis for mental illness every day. I think you're uneducated on this topic. What you must remember is that what works for one of us, will not work for all. For some, INGESTING (so many ways other than smoking) Cannabis is successful treatment for many of us. Google is your friend. I work at www.canadiancannabisclinics.ca
Dianna I would love to know the name of a doctor who is prescribing pot for treating mental illness. What conditions do they do this to treat? I'm talking about conditions that have any tendency towards psychosis. Would you agree that it's not suitable in these cases? Ie: Bi Polar, Schizophrenia etc.
As a recovering alcoholic, with early alz, I dk if it's related but I've stopped drinking 100% this past summer. My health, energy, memory, is coming back. So has my wife, and daughter. Thanks to the rehab centers and doctors. No thanks to one of my brother in law who likes to point out my flaws, show everyone my text, reviews, that I put out online to show to everyone how pitiful, weak, I am.
You’re a beautiful, worthy soul. Don’t let one miserable person discourage you. Much love to you my friend, I’m so proud of you.
I drank for years and finally got sober. Then, I started working at the Oaks pouring drinks, which kept me sober.
stop your crying oh taxpayers paying!! it's people lives!! it's not always about the money . .
The other thing people seem to miss is that often drug treatment programs or harm reduction programs can greatly reduce the cost to society.
Like needle exchange programs might be paid for using tax dollars, but they save huge costs to the medical system by helping prevent the spread of infectious diseases.
I know, it's sad though that so many people are more concerned with their wallets than the lives of others and the overall health of society. People don't scream bloody murder about the cost to taxpayers done by cigarette smoking and consuming alcohol, but when the government tries to do something to reduce those costs, THAT is when people get upset! It makes no sense.
Not treating chronic alcoholism costs more money to everyone, but when the government does nothing, people don't complain. When the government tries to save money by implementing preventative measures or harm reduction measures, then people flip out. If people just thought it through a little then they should see that these measures could actually end up saving a lot of tax dollars.
mary Paradis you obviously don't pay taxes
That is such a stupid assumption. She values human life more than a few of her tax dollars. You're assuming that she doesn't pay taxes because you don't understand how someone could care about other people more than tax dollars.
Harm reduction programs often save tax payers a lot more money than incarceration or "tough love."
Ape man Commeth l am an addict dingbat
Plus these people would cost the public more money wrt the costs to the health dept, law enforcement etc.
As someone who has been on pharmacotherapy for many years I am living proof that harm reduction works.
Only 1 addict out of 100 will be successful with abstinence based AA programs. Why traditional AA is so praised and recommended is beyond me. 1 out of 100! We must acknowledge that what is being done now does not work. It seems so common sense to taper the drug or alcohol, while addressing the issues that causes them to use initially, first.
People love to quote percentages about the perceived efficacy of Alcoholics Anonymous, because of what they’ve heard. In most cases they have very little, to no real experience. It’s “beyond” you, because you haven’t bothered to spend enough time talking to people with long term sobriety. If you really want to know something about the power of AA, read the story of former Northwest Airlines captain Lyle Prouse. Best wishes to you.
@@markg.4246 I’m not saying that AA doesn’t work for anyone but it doesn’t work for everyone. If it worked for you that’s awesome but not everyone studies the same way, trains for sports the same way, relaxes the same way or diets the same way. Then why should everyone have to attain sobriety the same way? I think AA has become a religion onto itself and it’s followers are insistent that their path to salvation is the only way and everyone else is a blasphemous infidel and that’s just ignorant
Trauma Is what's killing addicts. Alcohol and drugs are what we addicts use to treat our trauma. Meetings meetings meetings, addicts and helping addicts is one of the best solutions and by that I mean you can be an addict but clean and sober for 25-30 years. We were born this way.
That guys song was everything! 💕 I wish all these people well!!
18:06 That is the very truth. God bless you, Sir, for saying it so clearly.
I worked at a recovery center for addicts and alcoholics I believed in using everything in the tool box at the addiction , I see no deference between alcohol and a drug , alcohol is a drug , and this is a war you could say its a world wide pandemic , I've know of at least 20 some people , personality that have lost their life due to there addiction , there are no easy answers in this war but if you have it in you , to show compassion to your brother or sister in need , God Bless you and there is nothing wrong in helping to ease some ones suffering , some day the societal ill's that make people want to escape from the pressures of it need to be addressed .
Alcoholics are mainly very good loyal people because they have suffered alot. This is an incredible program and hope it helps them all.
I would love to work there. Always wanted to move to Canada anyway. I think the program is phenomenal. I know everyone doesn't agree with the program. But there are alot that do. I am so glad these people are getting help. Thanks for helping these people. Please let me know how to put an application in. Thanks😊
“Total abstinence is easier than perfect moderation!”
Sometimes you got to take drastic measures but my problem with this, and I've been on methadone for a while before. My problem with this is that alcohol is actually poisonous and damaging to the body. I think like a benzodiazepine replacement therapy would be better because at least it's not going to ruin your liver. God bless all these lost souls..
I love how compassionate and open-minded the journalist was
I love that Jimmy fellow.
Me too. I felt bad for Jimmy. You could tell that while he had surrendered to the alcohol, he was ashamed and dreamed of a better life. On the other hand, I had absolutely no sympathy for the young native dude with the stitches in his forehead. To him, it was just a 24 hour, free party. I wanted to shake him. Growing up, that guy knew that he was genetically vulnerable to alcohol. This does sound correct to say...but why didn't he pick a different habit? Grass or something... I have an aboriginal friend who has told me that from childhood, he knew that he could never, ever drink alcohol. Not even taste it. His whole immediate and extended family consisted of hardcore alcoholics. Today, at 36 year old, my friend Carl still hasn't tasted alcohol, tea, coffee or caffeine. Instead, he drinks caffeine free pop like Sprite and 7Up and smokes cigarettes. That is a heck of a lot better than drinking...Especially since he already knew the outcome.
..Up here in Canada, the government can't even send hand sanitizer to the aboriginal reserves during major flu outbreaks. Why? Unfortunately, most reserves have had major problems with their citizens drinking every last drop of the hand sanitizer. So sad....
He is my grandpa
Meeting people where they are, I love love!
Jimmy seems a good chap. This could happen to many. He's still got a good soul.
A good idea, God be with you Jimmy(and others) one day at a time, the Big Book really does help, I know a few here who swear by its efficacy. There is no cure, only treatment, for the foreseeable future. A stabilizing program has been in force for many years in Whitehorse.
That doctor is a hero!!!!!!!
My mom’s an alcoholic. My dad’s too scared of her temper to seriously challenge her on her drinking, and she won’t be honest with me about how much she drinks, but I’m still trying to help her. I’ve been trying to get her into THC, “California sober” as it’s called, because we’re in a legalized state and I know she isn’t going to stay off booze without something to replace it. She doesn’t think she needs professional help, and I can’t force her to seek it. Sometimes harm reduction is the only thing that saves people. It can give them some stability, and show them change IS possible.
This must be carried by society. We need this in the States.
Alcohol is a B*tch. I get it. It’s nice to see the doctor is compassionate.
Jimmy is adorable. Hope he is making good progress
It helps loneliness… Which is a killer in itself
Thank god for these people trying something new. Clearly it’s working for them
I’m terribly impressed. Such humanity all around.
Abstinence worked 4 me. Im 10 years sober nearly , interested to see how this works out but I wish them luck with their sobriety
Long term, forced abstinence only causes the Alcohol Deprivation Effect which virtually relapse. Abstinence is not the only way.
Research The Sinclair Method, a clinically proven way to cure Alcohol Use Disorder using targeted dosage of a cheap, non addictive opiate antagonist - Naltrexone.
I did 3 months in summer 2018 dropped weight too
This could be you, or your parent, your sibling or your neighbour. Alcohol can harm anyone. And it's more widespread than most people believe. This seems like a sensible solution.
Jimmy is my grandpa
I could be one of them. But I had people take care of me at my lowest when I really didn’t deserve it. You can’t get away from alcohol. It’s everywhere, on billboards, in commercials. Even the sound of a can opening is a trigger for me, no lie.
It is a sad and demoralizing solution and it shows what a dangerous and addictive drug alcohol is.
It could also be a starting point to begin a tapering plan...
This is why I love the CBC so much.
The presenter has a very nice attitude.
My heart ❤️ pours for these precious beautiful humans thank GOD FOR SHEPHERDS HOUSE and the doctor and the people who run The Oaks YALL ate just wonderful 🙏🥰❤️🩹
alcohol makes me feel drousy and sleepy
It's easy and lazy to think of alcohol as the problem, but the problem began way before alcohol was used to medicate and suppress, who knows, what horror and unimaginable harm these people endured when younger.
This is such a beautifully empathetic comment. Bless you.
@3:05 funny how the doctor gets out of the car wearing a stethoscope. Caught me off guard