We Need To Talk About "Jazz" Festivals
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- When is the last time you saw a jazz festival that had all jazz musicians? Does this even matter in 2023? I'm poking the bear and asking some serious questions that I really want answers for going forward. We very well may never get any answers to these questions, but I still think talking about them is important. Watch on to find out what I think.
What do you think about the state of jazz festivals today? Is there not enough jazz? Should "jazz" move on with the times? Let's talk about it...
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I work for an organisation that is heavily involved with one of the oldest jazz festivals in the United States and is the oldest music festival in the State of Iowa. The majority of jazz festivals in the last decade have folded because the average audience is 65+ pushing 80s and the attendance is dropping rapidly. Their keynote sponsors are telling them they have to hire different genres of musicians to attract young audiences or else they will pull funding as well. Very few have stuck to their guns and refused to make those changes and have chosen to find younger audiences through other means.
The reason why these places won't change their name despite abandoning jazz completely, is because changing names is suicide for your brand and legacy. You'll lose your donors/sponsors/longtime attendees while trying to chase the people who are only interested in that one rap artist you signed for the Festival. It's a serious problem with the legacy of jazz that many in the industry grapple with. What I have been finding in diving into the trends of the genre is a bit interesting. There are 50+ different types of jazz/jazz adjacent genres that have very small groups who are in general single minded in their views on what is "real jazz". If we put on a show that has a Swing band, we will get the 40 people who like swing to show up while the 40 people who like cool jazz will complain about us not doing a real jazz concert. Bring in a cool jazz artist, those 40 show up while the other group complains. This largely is among that 65+ age crowd of jazz fans and they don't realize they are strangling their favorite genre into the ground by not supporting jazz as a whole.
On the other hand, there is very little interest in "jazz" music from people aged 40-65. They grew up on rock and hip hop. Jazz is for old people in their minds. However, people under 40 are actually very much so interested in jazz music and not just singular obscure styles of jazz but anything that is jazz. The musicians of many jazz groups you will notice are regularly split between 55+ or under 40. High schoolers and college students are joining jazz bands at their schools in higher numbers. There is a bit of a revival in the genre and it heavily revolves around people who like dancing. A lot of the bands we work with tell us that most concerts they play are either filled with young dancers or the old silver hairs, no in-between. There is a fascination with music from the 20s-60s again and many musicians are paving the way to bring the art form back in new ways, it's just the crowd that's very vocal about there only being one real style of jazz may ruin the music for good before they leave.
This is the best comment here that I've read, and it resonates with a lot of what I've thought about before, but also gives me a lot more to think about in general. It's inspiring a follow-up for me. Thanks!
Perfect comment, thank you. What also doesn't help matters is jazz not being part of mainstream vernacular like it was years ago. The Grammys stopped televising jazz and classical presentations which is shameful and one of the many reasons I stopped watching the broadcast years ago.
Excellent explanation and analysis. Thank you.
Great analysis. It may have to do with that our (40-65) generation has still been shaped by the recording industry with their many gate keepers.
Younger people are more used to finding their favorite music on the net and streaming services and they've been doing this since their formative years. So more chance to find what they resonate with independently rather than just consuming what's in vogue in the moment.
Leave out the 40=65 ( I think that age top limit is bogus, Maybe 55) Concentrate on the others. The jazz "community" has got to create - or find - more stars. Also, the recent immigrant communities like jazz, and jazz is international. Latin jazz, just for an example, should always be a part.
I'm so grateful that the Detroit Jazz Festival has been staying consistent with only having jazz artists for the most part
As a Sri Lankan, I'm proud to hear Patrick talk about the Sri Lanka Funk Festival ❤ it's got the best hip-hop music in the country 💪🏿
Lol
Can you imagine the disappointment?
Being promised funk (and one would imagine, good, groovy, maybe even downright filthy funk) - and then being served hip hop instead?
I think Jazz has certain elements that contribute to its "sound", but it's the concept of musicians locking into a pocket, swinging with/against each others rhythms, trading solos, and playing homage to standards by reinterpreting them from their own perspective that makes it what people typically identify as Jazz.
Yes, probably true, conversely, whenever anyone plays a "standard" with whatever degree - or lack thereof - of jazz "infusion" (think lack thereof) it is deemed "jazz" and this is part of the bad association that others are suggesting as far as jazz being associated with predictable and dated starchy, staid musical fare. So, standards - (American Songbook) as such - are not jazz, (i.e., Michael Feinstein is not playing jazz) except when jazz has produced its own 'standards' (Misty, In a Mist, Stompin at the Savoy, Honeysuckly Rose, Satin Doll, Maiden Voyage, Spain, Night in Tunisia, Song for My Father, Lush Life, etc.)
GooseLandFamily: I think you are half way there in your definition. In the roots of jazz music there is a rhythmic feel, which is hard to describe in a few words. It has to do with which beats you accentuate. Further to this, jazz is a highly syncopated music, with polyrhythms, or at least it should be. If the Ragtime, gospel/blues and Calypso influences have all disappeared, it is hard to call it jazz. Why everyone thinks first of impro and forgets to mention the importance of basic jazz rhythms, which swing, I cannot understand.
There are many perfectly valid styles of jazz, but PC inclusionism is destroying the meaning of jazz and opportunities for dedicated jazz musicians. If nothing is excluded, then everything is jazz and the name means nothing. Already, too many opportunist fakers are calling themselves jazz musicians.
@@zdogg8 I think we agree. Infusion is an interesting word. When jazz is honestly diluted by intentionally fusing it with another genre, there should still be some jazz content. Sadly, this is not always the case, because spicing up the music with jazzy harmony is not really playing jazz at all, since jazz is nothing without its core rhythm. Accordingly, some fusions fail entirely in presenting jazz.
But perhaps you refer to other half-hearted attempts to play jazz. If the diletantes would only put in more time listening to assorted jazz, including the early styles, they would be more qualified to play it, and would not be fooling themselves.
I believe that many musicians interested in jazz lose heart at some point because they don't fit the hard academic trend in straight ahead jazz, so they accept some sort of fusion as a consolation. And maybe the academically simpler jazz styles seem uncool, or such collaborations are not even available where they live. I am not sneering at the "academically simpler" styles, which are complex in their own way.
that's a good definition of Jazz
@@lalas147 thank you my friend. I got a well rounded perspective by reading "How to Listen to Jazz" by Ted Gioia
I was at Newport jazz fest several years back and watched Chick Corea,Roy Haynes, Kenny Garret, and Christian Mcbride open up for top bill Brit pop singer Jamie Cullum. It was ridiculous, and 90 percent of the audience left after the monstrous set they just heard that honestly probably nobody on earth would be able to follow. I stayed to hear a couple of Cullem's songs and it was sad and empty no matter how hard the kid and his band tried. It made me realize the respect the promoters had for Chick and band and the statement they were making by using the pop name for top billing.
The disrespect! 😳
I’m confused. How was that respectful to any of the artists? First, you have a “jazz” festival that doesn’t give top billing to the jazz acts, then it books a pop act just to set them up for embarrassment. It’s disrespectful to all the artists involved.
@@wellesradio that's what they meant. They realised the respect the promoters had for the jazz musicians (i.e. very little). But yes could've been worded better
@@ytpanda398 yeah. Arguably they could have put Callum in the lower slot and the jazz fans would have found things to appreciate about his set awaiting the jazz group. Would have been a better experience for everyone.
The only other band to follow that Chick lineup is Chick again with Weckl, Eric, Patitucci, Frank lol.
honestly crazy these days people are so focused on including everyone that they forget about what their audience wants
more like trying to be everything to everyone... forgetting to be themselves.
It’s about money
The unfortunate truth is that their audience is dwindling to the point where big festivals can't be sustained without adopting more modern styles and bigger acts
When you try too hard to start including everybody, you end up excluding the people who cared about the thing in the first place.
the audience is dying - thats the problem the average jazz listener is pushing 70
_"And I know I might be committing career suicide, because maybe I might be playing at one of these festivals some day...."_ Funnily enough, that's exactly how I first came across you! You did a great gig with the Marquis Hill Blacktet at the 2019 Love Supreme Jazz Festival which, to add to your point, was headlined by Lauryn Hill. She was incredible, and I'm glad I got to see her, but they did have a lot of non-jazz acts at the top of the bill. The website does prominently clarify that it's actually a festival of "jazz, funk, soul & more", but they still call it the "Love Supreme Jazz Festival". On the other hand, given that I listen to jazz and classical music more than anything else, it's unlikely that I would have looked at the fine-print line-up and realised that it's an event that I wanted to attend if they didn't call it a "jazz festival", so I guess I'm exactly the kind of fish that they're trying to catch.
Lauren Hill and Chaka Khan, two "pop" singers who could absolutely kill it in jazz, at least a less constricted concept of "jazz." It's funny that some of the most "jazz" rooted artists, once they achieved high acceptance outside of the normal jazz audience, were sometimes dismissed by jazz "purists." I'm thinking of Erroll Garner and Louis Armstrong. Lately Ahmad Jamal. Erroll Garner, who could out Bud Powell Bud Powell if he chose (listen to his recording with C. Parker) and Armstrong, who virtually invented jazz.
I agree with you in saying it’s a great line-up of musicians. There is great music everywhere of all kinds, though, it’s heartbreaking to realize that these festivals are supposed to be a home for a specific tradition. A home it’s being forced out of. It’s sad we have to ask, “if this is not the place for jazz, where is?”
Thank you for bringing light to an important topic, Patrick. Your work is invaluable.
Having worked at a couple of 'jazz' festival for about 8 years, I feel it's definitely marketing, along with name recognition. Over about 8 festival days, there'd usually be 2 days heavily focused on what is typically considered jazz (Steve Coleman, Terrence Blanchard, Dave Holland, etc.), three days focused jazzy and jazz adjacent with the rest of the festival focused on pop.
Often, the difference in visitors is staggering, with pop days heavily outweighing the jazz focused days.
We found ourselves at Montreaux Jazz Festival last year. After looking at some of the small size-venues, we straight up went to the guides and asked them "Excuse me - where is the jazz?"
They pointed us towards a tent that had........... no jazz
It's not just the headliners that aren't jazz: the smaller free events aren't either
This has bugged me about the New Orleans Jazzfest for decades.
me: a jazz saxophonist and musician based in Louisiana.
also me: at age 21 I have not figured out how to get on stage at the New Orleans jazz festival
Honestly, I don’t think Jazzfest was ever really supposed to be just “jazz”. More about showcasing New Orleans musicians in general across many styles, like jazz, r&b, zydeco, hip hop. Sure they have huge headliners, but in many ways it’s still centered around and driven by local musicians
@@markianorobichaux4102 is it normal for random 21 year olds to play at big music festivals?
It's about money, they'll never get that crowd attendance on jazz alone.
@@noahv8671 Sup Noah 😂
I think they should lean more into the VGM jazz community which is breathing new life into jazz. The 8-Bit Big Band is Grammy-winning group that likely wasn’t invited to the Montreux Jazz Lab. (Maybe they were but were busy, still)
no thanks
Ever heard of the J-MUSIC Ensemble?
And jazz fusion, eg. Dirty Loops, Anatole Muster
I showed my Jazz loving, video game disliking 70 year old dad that Adam Neely video on VGM maybe creating new Jazz standards. And after it he grudgingly admitted the VGM Jazz covers were pretty good.
I think if non gamers give it a chance and just listen it really could help enrich it if people let some VGM into Jazz mainstream.
I never attended a Jazz festival and I was deeply confused looking at the lineup for New Orleans Jazz Heritage this year. Glad it's not just me
NOLA fest is quite an interesting fish - I love they have separate tents for the genres: jazz tent, blues tent, gospel tent, preservation hall - however, they have to draw the locals also, who can hear this music all year long (usually for much less $$$!) and that's why their two big stages are almost all rock/pop big names to close each day out. I've gone every year since 2015 or so except covid closures, and there is *PLENTY* of jazz - I spend most of my time in those little stages. I'll venture out to the big ones *if* it's someone I respect, or haven't seen (and they usually do have local folks on them in the earlier day too). But man, seeing Ellis Marsalis and his whole family close out the day, just the year before he died... no way am I going out to headliner stages no matter who was out there! Kidd Jordan and family in that same jazz tent (maybe the same year, maybe one before... but he's gone now too). That pop included so much really bothered me the first year or so, but I realized it's fine - folks who come for those big names do usually get exposed in some of the tents. And I'm not even going to mention the food! Had to miss it this year - if you went last weekend, Dylan, I envy you!
Patrick, I have long asked the same question you are. It seems “JAZZ” is a catchphrase for people who are most likely to buy tickets. Personally, I like Miles’ term “Social Music” better because it captures the collaborative, spur-of-the-moment excitement that is the hallmark of great “jazz” performances. If the festivals want to do something exciting, why not put a rapper, a rocker, a pop performer and some “jazzers” on stage at the same time for a jam session. Could it work? Could it lead to something new?
This is definitely more in line with the spirit of jazz and something I would like to see.
There's a great jazz festival in the UK called We Out Here and they have all sorts of acts but don't actively call themself a jazz festival, even though most of the lineup is actually jazz/funk/fusion
Yup. I live in the states and have been scoping out jazz festivals to attend this year, I just ended up deciding to pull the plug and go to We Out Here this year. Has more jazz than the New Orleans Jazz festival 5 hours away from me.
@@SkyHigh.GlobalGrooves gypsy jazz festivals in usa are all gypsy jazz; the people who play gypsy jazz don’t f around ; you won’t catch Ed sheeran there lol.
check one of those out.
Just look at oli soileki shred once and it’ll change your life
I agree.
I think music festivals should strive to label themselves as accurately as possible. That way the audience knows what they are paying for.
If the festival advertises a specific genre in their title, then THAT particular style should be overwhelmingly featured the most, if not, totally.
If the festival has a mix of genres, then call it a MULTY GENRE MUSIC FESTIVAL.
I’m a huge fan of 70’s progressive rock bands that blended classical music elements into rock. But I can’t imagine going to a classical music festival and hear a prog rock band being featured.
Seriously. Literally no one is talking about that and for some reason I feel like never will. Imagine actually seeing metal at a classical concert because "a lot of metal comes from classical music and uses classical harmony and runs" LOL. Aight bet I'm throwing Metallica and Meshuggah on the bill at the Met Opera for their classical music festival because it will "bring in more ticket sales". Like, people can't see how ridiculous this is. I know it has nothing to do with the music - THAT'S WHY I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT! I'm seeing the same comments over and over again... Lol. My point is that I WISH these festivals actually cared about the music they are presenting, because if they do, I want to see their argument for why it's totally fine to do that from a programming standpoint; and it better have NOTHING to do with money.
Man you are right on so many levels. Jazz is improvisation in many languages: Bop, Trad, swing, fusion, even jazz rock. It is like Gumbo. A mixture of many things. a lot of people love it but you gotta be amazing to make it.
It is hard today to have a jazz festival because so many of the greats are gone and so many wanna bees are self recording shlock.
Kind of off topic but Mow_Wow ha good gumbo guide 😊
Montreal just announced the jazz fest lineup and I'm happy to report it's quite jazzy
Heavy heavy lineup. Did not expect that after watching this video
And most of its concerts are free
@@TristanDelroeux WAIT THEY ORGANIZE FREE CONCERTS IN CANADA?
@@justanothernguyen2334 yup all of the outdoor shows are free
Was going to mention that too! Head to Montreal..it’s amazing..all kinds of jazz and many of the acts are free. My local ‘jazzfest’ has sadly dwindled to a few drowned out jazz acts far from the MainStage 🇨🇦
Thank you for addressing this topic!
We need to put the jazz back into jazz festivals.
Make Jazz Great Again!
Capitalism is preventing jazz from being in jazz festivals
then you need artists with actual skill 😅
I have watched the audience for "real" jazz ( be-bop to post-Coltrane, by my personal definition, your time period may vary) dwindle as the power of the amplified rock band was an irresistible siren call. My audiences have gone from twenty-something dancers waiting in line an hour before closing for our fusion band to over 60s in just a couple decades. The power of power.
I believe Wynton Marsalis pointed out how music festivals use the prestige of Jazz to sell a general music festival. In the 90's there was a resurgence in the popularity of Jazz and I remember numerous Jazz clubs and Jazz festivals that were majority if not completely Jazz orientated. Over the years Jazz clubs began to close and Jazz festivals began diversifying while still keeping the Jazz label. Nowadays you go to a "Jazz" festival and your lucky if 25% is actually Jazz. The Montreal Jazz festival is one of the largest in North America, huge tourist draw, but it's no longer about Jazz but merely everything and the kitchen sink + some Jazz on the side. It's what they've had to do to keep drawing in the numbers. True that recent generations are no longer hip to Jazz and so the existing fan base are usually 50+. This also introduced a new phenomenon of Jazz shows starting early. It use to be a late evening thing and now it's all over before 10pm. Jazz needs a new generation of listeners and I think part of the reason that hasn't happened is that much of current day Jazz has become boring and too liberal in it's defining qualities. That and the fact Jazz is about the music and not merely trending, superficial social media hype.
Jazz is a genre of music just like Classical, Rock, Ska, EDM, etc. Jazz does have sub styles like Swing, BeBop, Hard Bop, etc. I find these days people liberally slap the Jazz label onto just about anything. But Jazz does have definable characteristics, that's how you know what you are getting when you go to a Jazz performance, just like you would if you went to a Heavy Metal concert or any other genre of music. God knows I've seen Jazz festivals and at best it's Jazz inspired music of a completely different genre.
Yup, If anything can be jazz, then nothing is jazz. It's the homogenization of music into a shapeless mush. Moreover, there is a lack of really good music today. I mean, there is, but at the same time you have tons of really bad jazz. That's why I often go back to old recordings where the musicians clearly felt the tensions and gravity between the notes. Their phrasing sounded like poetry, and every note had meaning. Today, it is often a mix of random chords (to make it modern) with a handful of chromatics (to make it elitist), although there is no point in looking for depth in this music. By the way, that's why I noticed Patrick Bartley's channel - not only does he speak wisely, but he also plays the saxophone in such a way that I feel the meaning of the music - like with the old masters, each of his notes has meaning. Give more of this in jazz and more people will come who will find this music exciting and identify with it.
Love that you highlighted Pat Metheny. I know people who wonder if his music belongs in the Jazz category (I think it should be), but seeing his name between the other names you showed of Montreux, I think there should be no question.
The Breda Jazz festival was where I started seeing this. Literally having the main jazz stage getting drowned out by the rock stage for the local rock students.
I went to a Pat Metheny concert and sat in the front 2 rows for my 19th birthday, it was the best guitar playing I have ever seen or heard.
I love Pat metheny I have several of his vinyl albums
Been thinking and saying this for years. Glad to see someone with a platform bring this up.
I used to get very pressed about this topic, but as I get older, I guess I don’t care so much. That said, to engage with the topic of your video, I suppose what these festival programmers are really trying to suggest is that the acts are not necessarily Jazz, but “Jazz-y”, or Jazz influenced.
That said, it raises more questions than it answers.
For example, how much of disco music can you attribute to Jazz? How far back in a genres lineage do we go? Because ultimately, it will lead back to Jazz if you go back far enough.
But I don’t think very many people would say that Chic were Jazzy or even Jazz influenced.
I guess I agree that these festivals should now be called something else to more accurately, represent the artists on the lineup. I dunno, something like the “music from the soul” festival, or “moves and grooves” festival or something!?
It’s a real head scratcher for real! 😂
The temptation is to jump right into gatekeeping Jazz, and that’s not a path I want to go down either! 😤
Just had to say I totally agree with what you are saying here!! I live in Rochester NY and am a regular attendee and sometimes performer at the Jazz fest here, and there are plenty of top acts that just don't fit the Jazz category. I stumbled across this video in my youtube feed and have to admit I hadn't heard of Patrick before, I looked him up and now I'm a fan.
could it be that these festivals started out as true jazz festivals but but jazz no longer is the biggest draw, yet they didnt want to have to rebrand the festival and lose existing name recognition for the event?
I was contemplating this. If the curators don't have faith that jazz will draw then would another productive convo be figuring out why there is this lack of faith? Could one of the undermining things in the draw that jazz has be elitism/gatekeeping?
Most likely
This is the situation sometimes.
@@PaulDeemer Ed Sheeran sells more tickets than Joshua Redman. That's not lack of faith, that's reality. That leaves the major festivals with 2 options - scale down way down or totally rebrand, neither of which make sense from a business perspective.
@@Carlo24515 That's fine if you want to sell tickets, so remove the word Jazz if you want to engage Ed Sheeran for an event and call it a Pop Festival!!! Stop diminishing the beautiful artform - Jazz that we love.
Even though jazz is no longer a mainstream genre (which is a credit)- the word is definitely associated with cool. And EVERYONE (regardless of what they say) wants to associate with cool. It’s a concept AND a genre.
i hate that so much. especially as jazz musicians, its hard to just watch people call anything jazz just cuz its cool. they do the same with chord progressions. you play a chord progression using a lot of flat 9s and sharp 13s , whatever it is, normal people automatically call it jazz
@@structlightning Jazz is definitely something really wide, if you include all the fusion styles. One of my favorite Jazz artists is Kawasaki Ryo, and while surely being a Jazz artist, some people (you?) with a narrow definition of Jazz would exclude him from this genre.
Just ridiculous lol
My main rebuttal to your argument is that I would encourage everybody (especially those of us who have spent a lifetime studying this music) to look more at the money than the philosophical labels. The “what is jazz” question and debate is really a deep one and you can go MILES down that rabbit hole without even touching on the reality of what’s happening to jazz musicians.
What bugs me more specifically here is that the barrier to entry and access to these “larger audiences” that festivals in the past have been the best way to access, just keeps climbing. Do you have any idea how much cheddah $$$ Montreux is gonna shell out for Lil fucking Nas? Or any of the other huge name artists that they’re putting on as headliners also… the long and short of it is that the more money festivals put into HUGE acts like that who need absolutely no help getting bigger audiences, or making any more god damn money than they already have, just shrinks and shrinks and shrinks the pot for what’s left for people attempting to do more creative music which is expressing something in the lineage of the “jazz” cannon.
Now I get it that it’s expensive to run a festival and it costs a lot of money to do XYZ but don’t tell me that they don’t have the money if they’re guaranteeing probably over 500k per act for these headlining pop artists, then two things happen. Either the budget left for creative musicians is so low that they choose to take the gig at a loss for the “exposure” or they can’t take the gig because they can’t afford the loss, or MOST often, there’s a line miles long of people and bands qualified to deliver a great show with interesting and creative music that are just laughed off and not given a chance because they don’t have the same “draw” as Lil Nas.
The whole thing is frustrating and this is arguably one of the weirdest and craziest times to be a musician of any sort in human history… but festivals have a huge responsibility in this mess and it’s a combination of fear maneuvering and just blatant misappropriation of funds that has started to shift the average “jazz” festival to be just a cheaper coachella knock off and it’s probably not even as good.
Your response to the idea that people are "gatekeeping" when it comes to Jazz..... I mean it's perfect: Firstly, why are they determined to hijack the label?
The lineup: Ed Sheeran, Ke$ha, Harry Styles, Taylor Swift, Sam Smith
Festival title alternatives: "City Jazz Festival", "Black Music Heritage Festival", "Balkan World Music Festival", "Mozart Celebration Days"...etc.
I 100% agree and this has baffled me for years. Thank you for speaking out about it❤
You’ve got the nail on the head with your question - is jazz a sound or a concept? That ambiguity is its greatest strength and weakness I feel. And like most rhetorical questions it is best left unanswered despite the many attempts below.
Also your Ed Sheeran / McDonald’s burger was spot on, if a little unfair on the burger.
Truth. Promoters love the musical weight the name 'jazz' carries and use it to sell any musical act, and to be fair, that includes some new, creative/interesting, but ultimately non Jazz music. Christian McBride addressed this issue briefly in an interview he did w/ either Downbeat or Jazztimes magazine in the late 2000s. But back then no seem to care. Thanks for reopening the conversation.
The Detroit Jazz Fest is AWESOME! New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival seems to be focused on everything except Jazz.
I think the main thing I’m looking for is wether or not it’s improvised. To me, when I go to a jazz fest I want to hear improvised music. Like it’s got to have some of the language ofc but even pat metheny, it’s not straight ahead, but it is improvised and there is that language. So yeah
Patrick, you are absolutely right. It's important that someone of your caliber speaks about this topic.
Your laugh is contagious 😂makes my day seeing you laugh and express yourself!!! Love the real talks btw :)
This is sooooooo true!!! Myself, I play jazz/fusion at my gigs & my wife & I market it as jazz/fusion, even though I'll play a couple of popular rock tunes, & some flamenco style guitar, it's still sold as jazz/fusion & it's been working quite well for me on the local scene in SW Florida because it's not the same old 'Cover Band' gig!!! There is an audience on the local bar scene, you just gotta live what you do, & I really do love playing this music, thanks for sharing this, it was very inspiring!!! Be safe, Rock ( Jazz) On & God Bless!!!
Might sound like a roundabout answer to the problem but I think government funding the arts helps.
If you decrease the profit motive of these festivals, the easier it is for them to focus on the kind of music they want to present.
Dangerous but necessary topic! I agree.
it works like that in europe. usually its a mixture of sponsorship by the local government and local or regional companies. my hometown düsseldorf doesn´t really have a jazz scene. there is one club with regular sessions, but thats it. nonetheless once a year the jazz rally takes place and although its a broad variety of different genres, from dixieland to fusion, to more modern electronic sounds, all the music there can be called jazz.
I’d like to throw in the concept of punching down vs punching up. When genres of unequal popularities cross like this, it *should* be on the turf of the more popular music. Jazz musicians should be the ones being included in pop festivals and opening for pop concerts. It increases their exposure more than their own festivals could, and could make people more inclined to go to the festivals in turn. The current situation is the inverse. The bigger, more influential genres are taking over a smaller, more niche space, consequently driving out the music it’s made for. What was one of the largest platforms for jazz is now just another piece of these larger genres’ territories, which means jazz has less ground to work with, reducing its exposure and capacity to sustain itself. These larger genres are like a superstore driving local shops out of business. This ties into the for-profit motive because the profiteers of the larger genres are looking out for themselves first and foremost. They’d rather punch down than let others punch up because punching down is more profitable for them. And they leverage the jazz festivals’ financial instability to make it happen. In general, larger, more powerful groups dominating the spaces of smaller, less powerful groups disproportionately benefits the larger groups and hurts the smaller groups. Conversely, when smaller groups are platformed and elevated in the spaces for larger groups, it disproportionately benefits the smaller groups and hurts the larger groups. But the difference is that the larger groups can take a hit - the power imbalance between them is lessened when that happens. Meanwhile, if the brunt is forced on the smaller group, the power imbalance is exacerbated. This whole setup is greedy by design.
Jazz is essential American tradition! Any government that cared about their culture would put in effort to make sure that it is honored and practiced.
@@roygbiv1122 It ALL comes down to money in the end (and by "all", I mean EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE).
Awesome video dude, I named my group fighting jazz just because of this! It’s crazy how the word stifles ppl and they gotta decide where they stand on it before they even try listening
the deeper stuff that you mentioned, Pat, is the nostalgia when good, soulful music was still the dominant art form in the public's mind. The notion is held onto by the term
Groups I'd be be happy to see at a Jazz Festival: Phronesis, Maria Schneider Orchestra, Snarky Puppy, Gretchen Parlotto, Esperanza Spalding, Tierney Sutton, WDR Big Band, Hiatus Coyote, Chris Dave, David Holland Group, Taylor Eigsti, Tord Gustavsen, Marc Copland, Ralph Towner, Oregon, Kenny Baron, Pat Matheny, oh the list goes on
In my mind, jazz is more about harmony and improvisation than anything else. A lot of jazz standards are tunes from musical theatre, so we know it can be sourced from practically anything. I'd love to see some of the "non-jazz“ names paired up with jazz musicians to create shows that challenge not only the listeners, but the artists themselves. How can what we know as jazz intersect with modern popular music? Robert Glasper points in that direction with his Black Radio albums.
Agreed with everything here. Just wanted to mention that Bob Dylan is 100% a jazz cat. He used to play with Billy Higgins, Clark Terry and Cecil Taylor!
These are good topics. The Blue Note Jazz Festival is actually advertising as a festival expressing the influence of jazz on hiphop and r&b. Nicolas Payton's BAM movement is great as a movement of cultural awareness as well as a great suggestion for a title that actually empowers the performers and focuses on individual musical contributions rather than an umbrella term that associates amazing improvisers with "museum music." Similar ideas and sentiments also originated from Max Roach, Charles Mingus, Miles Davis and many others. I dont think of improv music as museum music unless it is the traditional form from 50+ years ago. I think that new "jazz" should not be synonymous with academic, museum, or any other term that robs it of it's heritage in which it was used for dance, adult entertainment, individual expression, etc. Which I believe should keep it right at the forefront of popular music even today. So long as the music takes on an improvisational aspect when it is performed live, at the very least for the solo sections, and uses phrasing, rhythm and form from the idioms of the "jazz" traditions, I think these concerts would still be appropriate. The problem is that most of them don't. 😂
yep. you already know if pat can make a 20 minute video on this, Nick could teach a year long course on the issues with this. I only tell people they are going to a jazz show when they ask, if we are playing music that could be called bebop, swing, hard bop, ragtime, etc. Otherwise it just becomes a way to dismiss the performance as snobby or heady or a sit down and sip a glass of wine with your grandparents type of event.
@@stanvans3214 A bit of a side note: American culture, as a whole, in the twentieth century, as been all about disassociating oneself from one's parents' values and taste, a trait I don't see in other cultures, unless they've since imported that - mostly commercialized - idea - from the States.
It's sad;y ironic that the term jazz -- which was considered by some in previous generations of greats to be vulgar (jazz is jizz, from brothel association) and thus they came up with "American classical music" (and probably other terms as well) -- would now be associated with "too country club."
I cannot hear Charlie Parker and ever think of "starchy" or staid, or moldy. When I heard Bird for the first time as a young teen, it was the freshest most adventurous, risk taking sound I'd ever heard, and Bird had been long dead. BTW, those who questioned or shunned the term then still embraced its "umbrella" of greatness.
Too bad jazz has been associated, -- it sounds like, especially with younger generations -- as "museum" music, or mostly of the academy. Jazz musicians, in order to survive, created academic "jobs" for themselves, not a bad thing in and of itself, but the association that you're suggesting is 'real' and I get that, and on the other hand, Wynton Marsalis, ironically in trying to elevate the same - did a lot to help portray the music - certainly unintended - as "museum" music. In either case, I don't think the term should be seen as derogatory in any sense, based on its worldwide reputation as America's greatest contribution to the world of art.
Yeah. In my area, which is a place that does not have a real jazz scene, jazz performances are fancy events. We only have our college's big bands and a solo player here and there, and there is only really an audience for traditional jazz, and that audience is already miniscule. In comparison, there are probably over twenty rock/metal bands in my area and there are lots of gigs with original music.
Literally just saw an ad for the Blue Note Jazz Fest in Napa and it was Robert Glasper and ANYTHING BUT JAZZ 😂
I feel like these festivals just have a name from when they started and have had to adapt their line ups to not tank financially and worry about changing their name. By keeping the name the same they keep whatever prestige is associated with it and by adjusting line ups to go with the times (and $$) they're able to sell tickets and stay around.
Including jazz-influenced pop acts in a jazz festival is similar to how an orchestra might play film/TV soundtracks alongside their classical repertoire. These more popular forms of music will attract people who might otherwise never pay attention to the 'museum music'.
in some cases there will be like this. On some jazz festival in Indonesia, An collaborated jazz musician plays popular song with excellent jazz arrangement. The keys is little bit tone down or something. They perform very well from the start till the end. Even some twist here and there. The end feedback? Chill response.
the Red Sea Jazz Festival always has the best Jazz musicians, very recommended!
Totally agree... when you're selling a music festival based around a specific genre no matter what that genre is, you have to stay true to the genre. And even if the artist is not known to be of the genre, their setlists should at least feature some elements of the genre, some kind of fusion. It's not a question of gatekeeping or musical snobbery, but keeping true to what makes the genre unique.
Great video and Solid points; my understanding of Jazz music are the elements that you can’t remove and still have it Be Jazz; the conversation that is present between the musicians while playing together is the ground floor, the entry point, the essential beauty and value that Jazz is, without which becomes less from there on. Personally there are many styles of music that can entwine this concept, but yes they are shades of the real deal, great music just not necessarily the core. Thanks again for your view points here; I stumbled upon this video and am very glad I did!
I love jazz, i play tenor sax, been studying for 2 years. Went to the Toronto jazz festival... not one single jazz band
Weird to see the evolution of jazz line ups.
But you should come to Stockholm or Copenhagens jazz festival!! Over here the festivals are still 90-95% jazz artists with 2-3 jam sessions every night.
I think a big part of it over here is you have to pay individual tickets to all concerts you want to see (some are free entry). So the festival producers are not forced into a position where they need to sell tickets in order for it to work
This has been going on for so long. I remember after a few years of being into improvisational music, my grandparents invited me to watch New Orleans Jazz Fest on directv and I cant remember the whole line up which included a lot of artists who had nothing to with the genre. The only one I remember was Maroon 5 and I was just like what is going on here?? 😂
I'm going to Java Jazz fest in a few weeks and I was like "ummm where's the jazz?" there's like 8 musicians/acts that are definitely jazz. The handful are jazz adjacent and the rest are just pop with some interesting musical elements
Honestly, same for me, i don’t know if i should go. All of them are indonesian pop singers 😢
Man I hope I can join to celebrate jazz and only jazz but the blasphemy! Almost every single of them are pop artists.
Patrick, I think you'd like Duke Ellington and Billy Strayhorn's analysis of the word "jazz." Both of them thought of the term as an empty word, generally meaningless, as they felt that their music was "beyond category." They described what they wrote and played simply as American Music.
Ive always wondered about festival line ups. Maybe I am old school but Jazz is improvisation regardless of genre. Improvisation is a discipline. There are musicians and bands that are really good at it and should be at jazz festivals
I see your point and I think you make a lot of sense on the topic of "what is jazz". But I would like to maybe add context as a young European guy that went to a lot of these Jazz festivals.
In a lot of cases these festivals have a lot of history and in order to continue growing each year they need to use the well known name as a standard of quality, for sure. But in Europe "jazz" is not as much attractive to the young festival crowd as it once was. I guess the "jazz festival" etiquette was, in my world, always more of a "old people" thing... With a niche type of music they get to a big stop in growth and need to mix in more and more non-jazz artists to keep new people coming.
This is why I think the "jazz festival" is not a festival for jazz anymore but more of a duality to oppose to classic "festival" (with more pop/electro/DJ set lineups and a very young audience). In that case it has become, from what I've seen, a festival that prioritizes live "band music" with sometime opportunities for impro ? You end up having funk, latin/cuban, afro, blues, soul, fusion, jazz trios and maybe more but you get my point (I've even seen Flamenco in a Spanish jazz festival).
This is why I'm very surprise to see artists like Nas X ! Great artist and performer but this seems to be out of this "live band music" and breaking with this duality as explained before. I think it's a weird choice for headlining.
It's been going on for decades and frustrating. This is from the 2010 Montreal International Jazz Festival: 'The Montreal International Jazz Festival is putting an emphasis on legends for its 31st edition, including Cyndi Lauper, Lou Reed and the Steve Miller Band in a lineup that will be led by Lionel Richie and the Doobie Brothers.' There are plenty of Jazz 'Legends'. It's time for a Jazz Music Jazz Festival for those of us looking to hear some jazz.
Montrealer here. I feel like the focus for last year and this year's lineups for the jazz fest has definitely come back to a majority of proper jazz acts, in all of its variety
@@samuelmesguich2611 That's great! Cheers.
Great topic! Thanks for bringing this up!
Thank you man I have been thinking of these same issues for a while.
agree man, been thinkin bout this very much. situation here in italy is terrible.
i came to the conclusion they using the "jazz festival" title because it might be a way for them to get money from public institution (i mean european or regional funds), like probably the "jazz" word might have become an official category in public announcements. hope what i wrote is understandable?
btw just learned the biggest name at umbria jazz (supposed to be the biggest italian jazz festival), is BOB DYLAND.. damnnnnn 🤦♀
I 100% agree with you points about how we should be honoring the tradition. Jazz can easily become something new and fresh-but I can't agree with the idea of people who have never played a jazz standard in their life being the headline of a "jazz" festival. Not saying everyone needs to be playing burning bebop solos, but damn-it just feels like people are trying to hijack the word jazz by crying foul about gatekeeping and whatnot.
Jazz is totally gatekept. But not by the elitists-the music is naturally difficult to learn and it has a long and nuanced history. People just don't want to put in the effort and time it takes to even become a mediocre jazz musician-but this is so easily applicable to other genres too. Imagine some of these artists showing up to a hardcore blues festival and they've never played B.B. King or SRV tunes. People would be so confused, maybe even angry?
Definitely feel like you got guys like Potsu who is doing it right. He is clearly a trained jazz musician and he creates his own music that is heavily influenced by the jazz idiom. I would not mind a guy like that headlining a jazz festival. Lil Nas or Ed Sheeran on the other hand-yeah maybe not so much. I strongly disagree with comments talking about how jazz should be defined more loosely-every musical genre has its titans and you would be labeled as crazy if you thought you could be a torchbearer for the genre without listening to/playing the music of said titans.
I have the same complaint about a local 'writers' festival'. To me, that means they should have people who are famous authors, or can educate would-be writers on how to write. But in fact the majority of the speakers, last time I looked, were just generally famous people who had biographies.
So, not necessarily writers, specifically, but people famous for things _other_ than writing?
@@miro.georgiev97 Yes, just anyone who'd written an authobiography.
Nowadays in that area, the jazz acts are seen in the small wonderful Cully jazz festival some two months before Montreux. It is true that some versatile pop/blues/funk/r'n'b artists could modulate their show with a more jazzy approach for Montreux (for instance Prince and a bunch of fantastic Brazilian artists) but this is a thing of past editions. I don't expect any jazz in Montreux Jazz Festival anymore.
I stopped going there after they oversold tickets a couple of times. Last time I was there I felt slightly disappointed by a partially pre-recorded show by Pharrell Williams.
I feel like the defining quality of "Jazz" is improvisation. That's the spine of the book. Everything else is up for grabs, texture, phrasing, harmony, tradition... everything
Ok so early classical music is jazz.
@@Yo-sb9st Absaposilutely!
@your problem Genre is like a dialect. Speaking in any language is still just speaking. The rubber really meets the road when you consider a fully written out arrangement of a traditional "Jazz" tune, where there is zero improvising. Is that "Jazz"? hmmmm
Here in México, the Vive Latino festival (Live, latino; latin music 4 latins) now bring us for the main spectacle US/UK pop/rock artists.
That’s mental. In the UK we’ve got two massive jazz festivals where it’s all pretty much jazz/funk/soul. But in the states????
We Out Here and Love Supreme, right?
@@alfiecoates168 yeah
You hit the point! They misuse the word „Jazz“ because it itself has a sexy association as a promotional word. I was very disappointed with the Montreux „Jazz“ Festival that they have since renamed in a „Music“ Festival.
I have asked these same questions. So many of these festivals retain the name "jazz" but don't include artists that are really associated with "jazz". It might be better to call it....as does New Orleans, the New Orleans Jazz AND HERITAGE festival.
For years and years, Clearwater, FL Jazz Holiday, was truly a jazz festival, brought in all the greats, and new jazz talent, jazz lovers came from all over to hear the sounds, but for the past 10 years or so, I haven't gone because there is no jazz on the line up, none ! I thought well, all the jazz greats had passed and there wasn't new jazz to bring in? Then I saw Emmet's place, and all the incredible young true jazz talent out there, and wonder why none of them are brought to our "jazz festival"? I am happy to see all the great jazz talent that is out there, great talent, like you Patrick, makes me happy to see that jazz is not dead, it's alive and well, and in great hands. There are plenty of true jazz fans out there who have given up on the "not jazz festivals".Just wish they would bring in true jazz if they are going to call it a jazz festival. Bring in this new jazz talent to we jazz lovers. Keep up the great "sounds" Patrick !!!
Thankfully not all cities are like this. Chicago, Memphis, and Detroit still keep real jazz front and center.
A great point ! Usually - the main attractions in the so called „Jazz Festivals“ have very little to with jazz. And what’s worse - these are usually the headliners !
If there’s a new genre name for this stuff, do that but keep the jazz festivals. I go to these things because I want to see players play… I want to feel the energy between musicians on stage… That’s jazz to me
Best place for my style, small combo 3 to 6 with keyboard and tenor sax is in a small tavern. Festivals are for larger ensembles.
I know Montreux always included some people outside of jazz, but in the past that was acts like Frank Zappa and Deep Purple. The lineup moved away from acts that are in some way artistic and more towards strictly pop acts after the founder Claude Nobs died imo.
Frank Zappa has an improvised aspect to it. And so I’d say he fits in
@@jubnx2781 and he has made jazz albums lol also a composer and orchestrator
@@jubnx2781 and deep purple can be pretty jazzy. Check them out performing Wring that neck on the 1969 (iirc) jazz bilzen. They were hard on improv
The elephant in the room: Jazz is a creation by a people that the powers that be, prefer to ignore. The people that created Jazz do not matter, so there is no respect for the Jazz phenomenon. Using the word Jazz by these jazz festival organizers is a medium to long term strategy to degrade the artform. For me Jazz is an awareness, its a way of life, it is very special.
For me me it is the best thing ever created by humans....I truly think that. Jazz sets one free.
Well, those same "people" (that p.t.b. prefer to ignore) don't support their own that well, and hence the jazz artist is often EU bound, Japan bound. The PTB seem to support Beyonce just fine, Snoop Dogg just fine, and so on. I don't disagree with some of your premise, especially that the artform (and people that created/create the same) is worthy of an acknowledgment of its "special"- ness. The p.t.b. are voted in by the same people that get lousy schools - year after year after year - supplied by the p.t.b., like lemmings, like programmed robots, which leads to an under-educated population which leads to less "in-tune" potential audience. Jazz appeals to a certain intelligence level.
@@zdogg8 I agree with everything you said. I am convinced that no matter what, Jazz will always be alive and live, the worse case scenario is it is likely to be more marginalized.
What I love about jazz is that it's not bound up in a set of rules. It can be simultaneously the music of Wynton Marsalis at the Lincoln Center and BadBadNotGood with Kendrick Lamar. What's special about the lineups is that it pushes their audience to grapple with the changing nature of jazz music, to the conservative it challenges them with new sounds and experiences. To the uninitiated, it presents them with the history and heritage of the genre.
Man, you know that this conversation runs real deep...you also surely know that promoters want their pockets to run real deep, too. At the end of the day, as sad as it is, it all comes down to this.
Montreux Jazz, Blue Note...these words are brands by virtue of their longevity at this point, and that's all that matters to the people curating these festivals. Whether the actual program reflects an actual connection to the history of said "brand" is of trivial concern to the organizers.
Back when they started inviting rock bands to headline these festivals 50 years ago, they never looked back. They were selling more tickets than they ever done before, why would they? I'd even go ahead and say that the only reason they didn't completely overhaul the programs right there and then is because up till some years ago, there were still plenty jazz "stars" (of the past and then present) that were touring regularly, and it is a "jazz" festival, so why rebrand it?
Thing is the more time passes, the more the branding solidifies itself into the collective eye, to the point where even if it's not a "jazz" festival anymore in practice, what matters is that it is "Montreux Jazz", if you catch what I'm saying. The legacy those words carry is a huge selling point, and a promoter ain't trading that away for the sake of "correctly represent" what kind of festival it actually is.
I apologize if this sounds extremely bleak and cynical, but it's hard for me to look at this any other way.
100% agree - firstly mostly those festivals should rebrand as "Easy Listening" - also jazz programmers in festival teams are rare as hens teeth.
Is easy listening a sound or a concept?
.
.
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Definitely a concept. But I guess it can be a sound too...
Very insightful commentary, I really enjoyed this 👍
Sam "never sang live even once in his life" Smith is perfect for a jazz festival! I personally love great lip syncing performances.
I'm a high schooler who plays in two of my school's jazz groups and every single year, our smaller combo has been invited to play at one of our city's oldest jazz festivals. Last year, the attendance was incredibly disheartening. Just a few weeks ago, we were informed that the festival is no longer continuing. This is a huge blow to us because people who watched us at this festival quite often hired us to play at private parties/events which is a huge source of funding for the music program at my school. The program is already low on funding and now with this lack of exposure, our program may start to decay; this is especially sad because my school is one of the few in the city that has a well-funded and instructed music program, and this is in a fairly major city
So I live in Vancouver, Canada, and this video very much resonates with my thoughts about our own "Vancouver International Jazz Festival".
Over the past several years I've seen this festival gravitate more and more to having world music acts, indie rock, whatever, and having this festival be more and more unrecognizable as a "jazz" festival. So I have to wonder why Vancouver continues using the term "jazz festival" and not "music festival". Granted there's still a fair number of jazz acts to consider it a jazz festival, but how long until that ceases? It boggles the mind that these festivals book Ed Sheeran and Lil Nas X and still call it a jazz festival.
Like when I hear Vancouver Jazz Fest unveiled its lineup I am expecting mostly jazz acts, and I'm expecting to recognize most of the acts they've booked. But no, it's almost half jazz half whatever the fuck gets them more of an audience. Idk, maybe jazz just isn't as popular here in Vancouver? We don't get a ton of big names in the festival anymore as of late.
Anyone interested in this should read "Notes and Tones" by Art Taylor. He interviews tons of legendary jazz musicians (Miles, Elvin Jones, Nina Simone, etc.) about what they think of the word jazz, pop music, and lots more. Some hate the word jazz, some like it, but the word didn't come from the musicians who made the music.
Ed Sheeran is a really good Joe Pass style guitarist.
@@GARRY3754 ok
Every genre wrestles with the the idea of its own definition - hip hop, indie, EDM, punk, vaporwave and yes, even gospel. There are countless ongoing internal discussions, disagreements and splinters within any given genre of sufficient popularity. The differentiating factor for jazz lies in its academic tradition and the propensity for its fans' gatekeeping.
It's almost cartoonish how little jazz representation is in the Montreux jazz festival. It looks like a typical musical festival lineup.
I’m going to jazz fest in New Orleans and ed sheeran is headlining one of the days..I got into jazz fairly recently and am making a trek to a fest to immerse myself in it and here we are..
Personally, I would be pissed if I bought jazz fest tickets and there were few, instead of mostly, jazz acts
As it was explained to me by a Jazz veteran, many festivals are simply job security for the person or persons who set them up, many who are just looking at having a steady pay check. Sometimes there are volunteers and temps to staff the events. Usually though there is one or 2 people at the top who are making a living off it.
From my point of view and experience an alternative is to set up more grass roots events at churches, community centers, museums, park bandstands, galleries, libraries. Situations not over burdened by commercial concerns. Artists can sometimes drive both 'commercial vehicles' and 'community creative vehicles' successfully.
Sponsors though sometimes come with strings attached. How to avoid the questionable interference?
Years ago I was in Seville, where I spent time in the housing projects and villages surrounding the city where Flamenco, Cante Hondo... are maintained by community organizations called penas outside of the commercial realm. It was inspiring to see how a musical interchange took place in these areas, dynamically pushing the tradition forward with all its spirit in dance, singing, percussion and guitar playing. Players were sometimes factory workers, teachers... If you want sometimes to regain faith in humanity go to those parts of Southern Europe, Africa or the Middle East where music is still a daily part of everyday life (and don't forget to take an instrument).
There are no easy answers, most would agree -- community is essential (overall commercial concerns) -- if a musical form is to survive & evolve.
This is definitely a big topic for me. I always wonder if jazz festivals do well financially. Some sell very expensive tickets and I assume the bands get paid well. But maybe the people who run those festivals don’t want to do it again because they don’t make as much money as they could at a different type of festival.
So to make more money, they bring in artists from completely different genres. Some huge jazz festivals seem to be backed by the city or large grants. It is all about the money. Big real jazz acts can bring in a lot of money, just not as much as Taylor Swift can. So festival production companies ask, why put in the effort.
As someone who is directly involved with a jazz festival. It has become increasingly unprofitable and the majority of jazz festivals in the world have disappeared in the last 5 years and the ones who haven't folded have sacrificed the jazz aspect of their festivals because their keynote sponsors have pressured them into singing non jazz acts just to stay solvent. There are, however, several festivals that refuse to sell themselves out for this.
@@thealmightyjack I assumed the lack of profit was the issue. The question I wonder is, how much profit makes Jazz not worth it. Is it a bunch of men in a room dressed like the Monopoly guy, Mr. Moneybags, upset that they only netted $500k? Or is it legitimately a bunch of people losing money with events run largely by volunteer labor? I suspect with proper big name Jazz acts, it is more like the first one.
@@AcevedoDMA it largely depends. Many music festivals are non-profit organisations primarily ran by volunteers and the rapidly declining attendance has bled them dry. I think in some cases for the much larger ones they are primarily funded by city governments/large corporate entities who view them solely as soulless tourist attractions to bring them money so the second the attendance starts to dip they want the event to change and they do not care and have never cared about the culture the festival was trying to promote/preserve.
In the case of the festival I'm involved with, it was at one point the largest downtown event in the community every summer but now it's lost most of its corporate and city government sponsorship for other "more important" events because they became more popular as jazz became uncool. The festival has been able to stay solvent solely from individual donors who actually cared about the Festival's intent which is to keep the legacy of a prominent jazz musician who was born here alive in our community.
@@thealmightyjack, thanks for the long and detailed reply. I really kind of wonder how the books look for large jazz festivals with many big name acts. I just know that I attended shows hosted by a university music department and they would make a giant ton of money which went to scholarships. I think what is happening is that so many greedy hands get into the pot and everyone involved in the actual production don’t get paid. Just think about Ticketmaster. Ticketmaster is making more money than Taylor Swift is for all those shows!
I still think greed from various directions is the problem. Local events like yours is a much harder issue to keep successful. I just know so many people market jazz festivals and it might have one regionally famous act and then local acts. Of course that won’t make as much money!
@@AcevedoDMA greed is a major part in anything that makes money unfortunately. I even know of several festivals/organisations that have folded or lost their sponsors because the staff and volunteers were caught skimming money off the top.
If you stick to smaller gypsy jazz festivals you can see the best in the world and it’s all jazz.
The trick is to not just look for “jazz”. Look for a type of jazz and that will filter out the squares ;)
why is it a hot take to expect jazz at a jazz festival lmao
Come to the Detroit Jazz Festival! Always a great lineup and completely FREE
“Is Jazz music a sound or a concept?” Is such a thought provoking question
Good to hear you talking about this. Scotland's biggest folk festival, Celtic Connections, has drifted so far from music in the genre of Celtic folk music, which anyone in the world can play and innovate within, that it's become just about anything apart from rock or western classical.
Our Jazz festival disappeared after becoming very removed from jazz to, although it's back as a very small event now.
With both I showed up to concerts I paid good money to go to to hear music that was distinctly not the genre, not even a fusion - just plain something else.
As the festivals have gotten bigger the "big name" international performers, regardless of their genres, seem to become the focus to the exclusion of smaller more local bands (and presumably smaller international acts too) who are right in the pocket of the genre.
All music is music, all people are people, but when I'm forking out hard earned cash to see some jazz, or celtic folk, or even when I'm opening the brochure to see who's on, it's be good to get what's on the tin.
Well said.
Wan luv ✌️
"Is jazz a sound or a concept" this is how I always felt about punk rock. Most punk band I can think of is the Minutemen who definitely don't sound punk most of the time. I think of jazz as a concept in a similar way. You could get a group of jazz players together and ask them to play folk or hip hop or bach and theyre going to have an approach that speaks to what jazz is, even if theyre not playing a bunch of extended harmony and extra two-fives everywhere. That being said I think alot of the artists on these bills do not take this kind of approach (ed sheeran ? wth)