i know im asking randomly but does someone know of a tool to get back into an instagram account?? I was dumb forgot the account password. I love any tricks you can give me
@Brodie Holden i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site through google and I'm trying it out now. Takes quite some time so I will get back to you later with my results.
RJ does have a poly relationship with one woman and multiple men. Granted it is not as major as Rand and the 3 women. It is Myrelle and her warders. Other characters hint that she married at least 2 of them and she has sex regularly with all of them. I do not think you can compare the the two situations, but a relationship between one woman and multiple men do exist. Further, in this relationship, Myrelle has all the power. She has bonded each of the men. If she wanted to, she could compel them. Whereas Aviendha, Elyane and Min bond Rand. In some ways, they have a form of power over Rand that the warders lack. I wonder if the three could compel Rand post Last Battle, especially if he is no longer Taveren
Exactly Rand's women were in love with him not with each other, the love they developed with each other was strictly sister love & all three get pregnant from Rand because somehow they are tied or connected to Rand's past life wife.
The Pattern: Gonna give this guy all the love he can handle and more to make up for the pain and death he's expecting, also, going to mess with his small town sensibilities sooo hard for a lark.
In my head cannon Elayne is Ilyena reborn. Along with that, each character gives Rand what he needs emotionally when he needs it most. Also, every time I hear someone say to just make Elayne and Avi lovers I roll my eyes. Romance between the 2 is just not there. Just because 2 characters love each other, doesn’t mean homosexuality. Friends can love each other like family without being sexual.
In writing WOT, I think RJ did a good job of grafting cultures from around the world onto his world. I think it would be a shame, and a strike against inclusivity if things are cut just because it may upset a tiny fraction of western society
So GOT that in first season has a man banging is sister doggie was wildly popular. Yet people are worried about polygamy putting off audience? Re polygamy: I think critics should ask themselves if they aren't showing a lack of inclusivity. I have female friends from Africa - highly educated women with agency - who in polygamous marriages. They are highly offended when people think they are being oppressed. I wonder if the knee jerk reaction of looking at things through the "American Gaze" doesn't betray a certain kind isn't a kind of bigotry against something cultural practices which are different from your own, hence primitive and backward. Think about it for a second.
I am on my third go through of reading the books… Well listening to them on audible, physical books one run through… At any rate I am not worried by spoilers, LOL! Thank you for doing this!
I bit of a late reply but I dont think that we will get to see the elayne, avi, min and rand relationship. I doubt modern mainstream storytelling will allow a man to love 3 women and for them to return that love. I think elayne will be Rand's love interest. Aviendha will replace Gaul and follow Perrins story. And min will find herself attached to mat in some way
With all the "modern" changes the showrunners seem to be focused on, why not have a scenario similar to the books where the women decide Rand will be with them, and They will decide Who and When, without Rand really having any input (no pun intended). Some may say this is somehow a Male Fantasy, but others would say it is manipulation, coercion, or some other stronger words.
Simply Follow the Witcher book style. See In The Witcher books Geralt slept with a lot of sorceresses, medics, warriors and other women. By some count, Geralt had sex with around 8-9 women but that doesn't matter because Geralt always loved only one woman ( Yennefer) and had a strong feeling for Triss Merigold. Yennefer and Geralt were tied both by destiny, mutual respect and love for each other. But in Wheel of Time books the main issue is Rand as a king wants foursome polygamy. To fix this romance one woman has to be only friend not a lover. This could be either Min or Aviendha. Showrunner can either make Elyane as main romance and make her role bigger by replacing Min's Role as his emotional support of Rand(As Rand Married Elyane to become King of Andor). Another option is to make Elmindreda Rand's Only true lover who will stand for Rand from start to end (Season 1-2 - season 7-8) (As She is somewhat destined for Rand like Yennefer and Geralt)with Elayne as botched marriage with no physical relationship, Just end justifies the means kinda arc. As for Aviendha either just a fling or simply good friends with mutual respect (Her Love for Rand is forced She was not attracted to Rand from the start and was somewhat forced by Aiels for political gains). Significant changes is required to make this right. But As Raf mentioned Polyamory I am very sceptical about that possibility. Polyamory will only work If Rand only love one woman(either Min or Elyane) and other two as fling and fortune telling of pregnancy with twins or 4 baby in future will not help either.
The polyamory doesn't have to go all ways. Many poly people have primary partners. And tbh I think its better they are not all romantically involved with each other. I think Aviendha should just be exclusively with Elayne. I think Aviendha and Rand should just develop a nice, close friendship in TFH. Plus it would be interesting to see Rand have a crush and get rejected. Rand can be mostly with Min and have a smaller relationship with Elayne. Min and Elayne works too.
This is certainly true and I wouldn’t actually want Min and Aviendha to necessarily have their own romance. I’d just like them to be given a little bit more time to bond so I can find their acceptance of each other more believable.
Pls no love triangles. It's one reason I don't mind the love rhombus in wot. There's no unnecessary drama. That would make it a young adult series lol.
Since the first two seasons were so uneven and awkward in many ways I honestly can’t see how Rafe and writers are ever going to present the three women is any reasonable way. I’m seriously questioning almost all major plot points that may be excluded or altered beyond recognition. Since Elayne has now met Rand by saving his life I guess gratitude is the foundation of their love. I’m interested to see how or if they actually write a triple love story. Not sure how to feel about upcoming seasons- keen anticipation or complete dread😳🥰😬😭
Thanks for the video! It was quite informative. The way I see it, Rand Al'Thor is the Dragon Reborn and hence he should be the central focus of this relationship. This means, if they go for the polyamory approach, it should just be with Rand and the three other women. I think the term "Male Gaze" is a recent development and I don't really like it when modern social trends influences materials which were written decades before. I like to keep everything by the book, where possible.
Thank you ! What is the point of inserting modern values in a tale that is meant to portray something else … What is wrong with people now our days just tell the story …
Also, looking at our own history, it was often common place for nobles/royals to marry but be apart. Or actually only see each other infrequently due to war etc. It’s not a stretch to see them build Elayne’s “connection” to Rand from this pov. A strong ally who could produce a strong heir. Her duty to the Tower and Andor can be shown to trump her love life and leave us with a girlish fling over a crush who she sees political advantage to courting.
I really enjoy these how to adapt videos. You've probably already have these planned at some point but I'd love to see how to adapt the tower/ ajahs, how to adapt cultures of wot, and how to adapt villains and from that --how to adapt the forsaken (they probably need their own video I'd imagine)
Very well said. Although I dont see a problem with the elaine-avhiendha romantic relationship even if they still become first sisters. There are examples of sister wives in aiel culture where the wives appear to have a fondness for each other as much as the husband. I also still feel elaine will have a bit in season 1 thanks to the reshoots.
I think the best they could do is to make Rand break up with Elaine. It's just imposible to make believable that they are a couple. I believe that Rand and Avi are in love and that Rand and Min are a couple but at times i don't believe Elaine even likes Rand as a person. She keeps complaining about him since book four. I'm keeping both of his relationships with Avi and Min just because. I would do something like this: 1. Keep evering the same until the end of book 5 2. Rand sends a letter breaking up with Elaine (because of the time spend apart) and Avi stays with him but angry because of this. 3. Min, seing how afected Rand is because of his relationship with Avi convinces her to forgive Rand and start dating him. Avi and Min become friends. 4. Min is alredy in love with Rand so becomes first sister with Avi so that they would never fight over him (in between books 7 and 8) . 5. In book 9 both are in a relationship with Rand and Avi keeps with them until she leaves for Rhuidean. 6. Keep the rest the same way.
Absolutely polyamory! If for nothing else but to give the same convoluted feeling we had when untangling this love nest when reading the books to the watchers when viewing the show. To keep things from being too Rand centric they should add other prominent males in the love web, not any that are spoken for like Lan, but maybe a certain tinker, or a white cloak to really add a sense of drama. I feel the lack of other males being present in the polyamory relationship was one of the lines in the '90s that RJ wasn't going to cross that is open to interpretation in an adaptation now. This video was everything I hoped it would be, I hope Rafe is a subscriber of yours and takes notes on the poly theory you have! In fact I think this should be a round table discussion with the youtube lore heavys, maybe you can convince Matt on the Dusty Wheel to have a chat with you and a few others about this topic!
Why? It is a story told by Jordan, he wrote what he wrote … that’s all it is a story tell it as faithfully as it is possible (in terms of length) . What do modern sensibilities have to do with it ? Do we take out beheadings , hangings etc from stories that tell a story of a different time ?
I actually think along the line of your description of the polyamory relationship ever since that comment from Rafe, especially as it's been fitting my own impression of the "in betwee the lines" for many years! Plus, what you put in the cons as "uneven" relationship fits in the pros imho! Because I don't believe that in any multiple ppl relationship, it being romantic or otherwise, is exactly the same hum, let's call it "level". So basically, having Elayne and him more in a strong friendship and mutual respect and maybe even admiration from the Tear part would make sense to me. Now, to explain her going with the girls to Falme in the 2nd book, I would make it more as a "near-sister" kind of feelings with Egwene and Min, plus the fact that she wants an adventure so much, bored of being in the Tower, so sheltered in her life so far that she doesn't really understand yet the possible dangers. The wakening would be brutal, and help her get more grounded later on. Maybe she could lso start to be attracted to Min and it would reinforce her will to get along. As for Min going, it might be a viewing telling her she must go or a catastrophe would befall them all or whatever... that's the easy part with her! Now, why would Avi resist so much, I don't think it should be related to love interest from any other. She's very dutyfull, yet "quite" stubbornly against everything the Wise Ones want her to do related to leaving her life as a Maiden of the Spear. And since it is very clear from the beginning that they want to use her to bond him to them as a people, she cld simply resist THAT. Add in the Aiel feeling that wetlanders are strange and inferior, and she would developp a kind of antagonism against her own attraction, and it's actually the later love for Elayne that would maje her understand that differebt doesn't mean inferior, abd she would feel free to love Rand too. Her resisting that feeling in the 1st place would have actually strenghtened it, so when she sees him again, it can suddenly bloom fast and strong. Now there is plenty of time for Min and Elayne to developp a romantic relationship, both in the Tower and in Salidar before their parting, and at 1st it would be them that are the "glue" in that square, until Avi-Elayne developp too, then both Min and Avi with Rand. That leaves Min not knowing Avi much, so they could be a bit akward together, but willing to get to know and respect each other for the sake of Rand and Elayne, not even knowing how far it may go between them, and it's ok like that. Not all relationships need to be fully "resolved" by the end of the show, it leaves room for our imagination to run wild! Back to Elayne and Rand, I think I would make it a quite pragmatic relationship, built of respect and admiration as I mentionned earlier, and I would actually keep the pregnancy as a semi-conscious decision in time of war and insecurity. Having an heir before the LB, especially with all the "current" struggle of a nearly civil war, so soon after the one in Carhien, plus the fact that she means to take that throne as well, is just logical, nearly essential. And who better than the Dragon Reborn, currently the lover of her 2 lovers! You might even make her definitelly more lesbian than bi, but the same as kings of old that were gay still needed to have an heir, so does she. Lastly, why would Rand run to the rescue of Morgase? Well, it has nothing to do with feelings, but simply that he cannot afford to let a Forsaken reign freely over the country, the same as Sammael in Illian, but since Ravhin was never seen as a good tactician unlike the other one, it would be logical to tackle him 1st, remove the lesser danger before reading his troops for the bigger challenge. And it's not love but respect for her mentorship that make him choose Elayne for both thrones. At least he knows and trusts her and her craftmenship at rulling a country. It would also explain better imo her reluctance at Merilor at the end, since they're not fully romanticly involved. And since it would been known that she's pregnant by him, it would still be viewed as natural that she stands with the 2 others at his funeral. And they could combine the bonding and the adoption into a single thing, the 4 of them fully bonded to each others, since she's the only one knowing how to create that weave. There you go, my full thoughts on all that complicated plot!
Doesn’t Lanfear confront Rand over Egwene because she doesn’t have all the necessary info? Did I make that up? I honestly don’t totally remember. If so, the Avi relationship isn’t specifically necessary to finish FoH.
I have seen or heard nothing from anybody against Jordan's version of the relationship between all 4 of these people, the problem is changing the sexual orientation of any character just to satisfy your viewpoint. This is Jordan's story, not Rafe's.
Thank you, it’s a story , just tell the story and let it be … modern sensibilities do not apply … plus do I even need to say it’s fantasy ?? Trolocs are not real creatures … What does what we do today or like today has to do with it ?? We don’t like beheadings and hangings , that’s not a reason to take them out of stories portraying a different time or fantasy … smh
I think Rand-Elayne relationship, while not being as convincing as the other relationships, also has some important plot points regarding the story. His reaction to the rumors of Morgase getting killed by Rahvin makes not much sense as he has just finished warring against Shadio at Cairhien. Yet he goes on a rage because Morgase is Elayne's mom and that throne is Elayne's right. Storywise, I think it would be the easiest to cut Aviendha from the relationship as for Lanfear to go crazy only a rumour would have been enough already. There doesn't have to be any actual relationship between them. The idea of also adding an Elayne - Aviendha romantic relationship is a very good one. However, I have always enjoyed their sister-like relationship honestly, and I'd prefer it to stay that way because their relationship is one of the most wholesome relationships in the series already and I wouldn't want to see it given a nudge towards romance. I have another idea on that matter. Maybe Elayne - Birgitte relationship can have some romantic aspect instead. It would certainly be interesting to play with imo. I think the show can also instead focus on some specific Green Ajah Aes Sedai and their relationships with their warders strongly, and this way it would balance the issue of Rand's relationships looking like male fantasy. It also would be nice to keep polyamorous representation for the show too.
Personally, I would like the big sister feeling of Birgitte kept more than the Elayne-Avi one, much more than the 1st as lovers and 2nd as only sisters, but that's me!
They should stick to RJ's original story and stop creating sex stories, the story is not about sex, And the only ones having multiple sex partners besides Rand were the Aes-Sedai and their warders because of the bond and the fact that they can feel who each other are interacting with, And this is also having to do with the wheel pattern and or Rands past life patterns, every person he meets is a piece of the puzzle to bring back his memories... nothing to do with morals or cultural beliefs... Elaine Trackand, Avienda & Min are somehow connected to Rand's past life wife and baby. Rand never had sex with Egwene, Egwene never had physical sex with anyone except with Galad in the Dreamworld, so she dies a virgin.
Pretty much how it happens in the books, start with min vision foreshadowing, have them all meet at different times. People talk about how much time they spend apart, but the whole series happens over a very short period of time, separate how much text you had to read to get to the time they meet back up from how long a period it is for the actual characters and its just not an issue. We live in a world where we are supposed to be able to love whoever we want, that has to include 1 guy and 3 ladies who love one another regardless of what anyone else thinks. If you were make the ladies have a sexual relationship between themselves instead of just having a timeshare together with the dream guy, it might be easier for a tv audience to digest, but to me its just an excuse to get the boob count up for the show, sex does not equal true love, better to have the near sister ceremony to show how the girls feel about one another. My guess is Avi and Elayne will be taking alot of baths together, just because of how GOT went, sex sells sadly and regardless of how I want it filmed they will do what they think will give them the best ratings.
It involves 4 major characters so it gets a fairly large focus if you consider all the pieces of it. That said all four characters are rarely in the same place at the same time so in that sense the poly aspect of it perhaps doesn’t get as much focus as it should.
@@ReadingthePattern Thanks. I'm curious to read to see how they get to that point. And I was just wondering how much attention the relationship was given once they were all in it because it looks like there is a lot else going on in the story.
@@breezy3392 yea there definitely is a lot more going on story wise. I adore so many things about the book series but the romantic relationships are widely viewed as a weaker element and I have to agree with that. The first season of the show has definitely handled romantic relationships better so far so I have hope for the handling of this poly ship as well.
If they go with the sequential scenario they have to make sure Rand doesn't come off as promiscuous and this will take some work to show that each relationship is meaningful. Otherwise Nyneave calling him "worse than a lecher" would go from comic relief to "actually she's not that wrong"
Why would that matter. People watch soap operas with cheating philandering men all the time. Do you really think the show will suffer because Rand puts it about. Uthred in last kingdom whoring didn't affect the show. Fantasy watchers/readers are not snowflakes
@@preslavnikolov7382 I think it not such a hard thing to pull off. If she had a scene in season one with a green sister and her warders. And before we get to Elayne coming on to Rand in TSR, we see that the Aiel have sister wives and Rand is probably and Aielman, the audience will be well prime to see that poly is just a part of this world. I see this as generating more interest than not.
Randland is not modern-day. Although it does technically take place on Earth, RJ tried to write about wildly different cultures/traditions and what happens when they collide. Also - "The Pattern" has a silent but strong influence the characters are mostly unaware of. I have the advantage of responding to this video AFTER the first season aired ... any problems with Mosvani and her (multiple) warder partners?
I think if they could create short plotline bringing Min and Aviendha close as lovers it would make a lot of sense. Avi and Elayne's sister friend dynamic is so beautiful and pure. It should be as it is. Avi and Min could connect as Avi is a Wise One apprentice and Min is a Seer. They both are exceptional and have extra powers. In this way Avi should be willing and happy to include Min in the group. Moreover the central role of this group shifts from Rand to Avi who is quite deserving.Let me know Rebecca, if you think I'm being overly crazy 😀
If I was developing the story, I'd have Rand and Egwene fall out before he starts anything with anyone else, as you suggested. Then I would have Elayne be his first relationship, and his shallowest. Then Aviendha would come into the picture. Through all this, Min would be around, and there would be tension and chemistry, but she would hold herself back, trying to run from her prophecy even though she knows she can't. Elayne and Rand would break up, Aviendha and Rand would break up after Moiraine dies, and Min would swoop in. Rand would still have feelings for Aviendha and Elayne, but whatever. Then, when Semirhage puts Rand in the Domination Band, Rand actually kills Min, and she's out of the picture. Then Elayne and Aviendha come back into the picture and help Rand recover from Min's death. That's how I'd handle it.
IMO I don't think its a good idea for her to die in this particular scene. In fact it could be quite triggering to suvivors of domestic violence. Though I do agree that the stakes need to be higher and more characters in the show should die, why kill Min in that way? Rand doesn't need to be the one to kill her in order for her death to be impactful. If she's going to be killed off in the show, she should die doing something badass and important (i.e. in battle) because otherwise her character is being fridged - it shouldn't be all about how her death affects Rand.
Tbh I think Min should be Rand's primary partner. She spends the most time with him and their romance could be very well developed. I think Aviendha should be exclusively with Elayne. And Elayne can have smaller relationships with Min and Rand. Two couples with some overlap instead of some complex love triangle with Rand at the centre.
@@ibiali5211 Min is a polarizing character, because she seems to exist solely to support and guide Rand. She is introduced as a seemingly independent, unconventional woman, who is slowly turned into a damsel, a helpmate, a "best girl" for Rand. She is continually disempowered as the story progresses. So it would be the perfect resolution to her arc to be killed at the hands of the man she turned herself into a diminished version of herself for. And it would be doubly appropriate if she knew it was going to happen. Min is the prisoner of ta'veren, the instrument of the Pattern, and it's only fitting that she is cast aside once the Pattern is done with her. You can call it fridging if you like, but Min is the one who crawled inside the fridge and shut the door. And I see no disconnect in all of this. A lot of readers seem to think that Rand al'Thor is a good-guy hero protagonist. He isn't. He is a murderer, a war criminal, and that's not even counting all of the sins he is accountable for as Lews Therin. Lews Therin's autocratic impetuous attack on Shayol Ghul literally destroyed global civilization. When the cure for the disease kills the patient, it wasn't a good cure. Lews Therin was warned by Latra Posae and others that his plan was foolish and reckless, and no female Aes Sedai and very few male Aes Sedai could be convinced to help him. But Lews Therin went forward in spite of them, and very likely TO spite them. And the entire world paid the price for his gigantic ego. Not the least was Ilyena, the wife he murdered unknowingly in his madness. How perfect would it be for Rand to murder another wife, this time with eyes wide open, and the full weight of his monstrous past comes crashing upon him. One could almost feel sorry for him, but Lews Therin/Rand's mistakes are always of his own making, he isn't a victim in any of it.
@@Siansonea Ok I could get on board with this take on fridging I just don't see why Aviendha and Elayne would then be needed to comfort Rand after he kills Min. That would ruin their subplot in Caemlyn (and even though its not liked by a lot of the fandom, at least its seperate meaning that Avi and Elayne have their own POV chapters). Fridging Min would also mean robbing Aviendha and Elayne of their agency, and while you can argue that Min did that to herself - the other two did not.
I think they should keep the relationship between Min and Rand, she's the one who spend the most time with him, she always there so she is certainly a source of unconditional love and support specially with the tough times that Rand will go through. I also think they should keep the relationship between Aviendha and Rand, I loved it, he learned everything through her and specially to care for the Aiel more than just use them as a tool, the Wise One also used Aviendha through that relationship to make Rand care for their people so they could fulfill their goal and save as many as they could. Also, their relationship is short but intense in the sense that Aviendha resist him and tried to hate him making their conversations at first very uncomfortable and passionate, it's different from the sweet friendship that transform in long-lasting love relation of Rand and Min, it's more raw and impulsive. So the both relationships would have different dynamics, one more caring and affectionate, the other more passionate and crazy. As for Elayne, I would also love for them to have a love relationship but more oriented in friendship, like they could be great friends and counsel each other with also having a deep care for one another like friends do but with a physical attraction. So they would provide to each other support and understanding for the roles as leaders. And in that case, I would love for Aviendha and Elayne to develop a deep love connection, so Aviendha would be deeply in love with both of them but Elayne would only be in love with Aviendha while exploring her sweet friend/love relationship with Rand with no expectations whatsoever. And for Min, she would be friends with Elayne and Aviendha, but would only be involved romantically with Rand. I don't know if it's well explained, but I really think they could make it work. So it will not only be about Rand but also Aviendha sharing two love interests, and exploring the idea for Elayne to be in love with a woman while also sharing a connection with Rand that is not as deep as is it supposed to but that could adapt more easily the fact that they're not always seeing each other while being involved together. Anyway, this video gives a lot to think about, I don't know how they will make it work, in the end I don't really care that much who's with who, but more to really be able to feel the connections between the characters and the relationships being well explored beyond the surface, to go deep. Good video, as always, can't wait for the next one. 😊
I kind of saw the Rand Elayne relationship as a power coupling, the both were enamored with one another because of their potential and what a possible union would mean for them in the long run. Min is the caring muse and Aviendha the one who appeals to his wild side and just allows him to let loose.
What is the point of adapting a book to a TV show knowing full well what is in the book to change fundamental aspects of the book which is relationships between characters which mold and explain said characters … Why does this even need to be a discussion ? Please someone explain, make it make sense
@@grichkatayou7558 What do you mean? You mean you don't understand why adapt books if we change relationships? It's simple, it's an adaptation, you have to remember that it will never be exactly like in the book, but also know that Robert Jordan was not perfect in all aspects, especially romantic relationships, so if the show can improve this aspect, why not do it? Then, keeping in mind that they don't have indefinite time on the screen, they have to cut out the most unnecessary things, merge what can be and amplify what needs to be. I thought it was obvious, it's on TV, the viewing audience and the ways to tell this story are not the same as through a book. It is distinct.
SPOILERS I think Aviendha and Min should be romantic together in the series and keep the sister relationship between Elayne and Aviendha as it is in the books. Maybe have Elayne and Mat as a doomed will they won't they romance during there time in Ebou Dar, ending with them happy staying as friends as Mat marries Tuon and Elayne focuses on her kingdom and carrying Rands babies
@@tofunmitoyin-gbede7507 In the books Rand and Egwene drift apart and decide to stay friends instead of pursue a relationship between them. Nynaeve does not get pregnant with Rands babies in the books, unsure where you picked that up from
I totally agree that Elayne-Rand is the least believable relationship of the three and i dont know how they will ever adapt it at all without their initial encounter in ceamlyn. The problem with only missing this encounter is the first seanchan encounter in falme (why, for instance, would elayne want to go to falme? you could make her just want to help egwene and nyneave, but in the books she goes with them to help rand "in trouble"). The problem with cutting the further relationship (if brief at best), are far more severely in my opinion: As said in the video, the hole start of the relationship with avi doesnt quit work out without rand realtionship with rand. Secondly, Avi wouldnt have a real reason to "run" from Rand and go with Mat to Elayne if not for her feeling like betraying Elayne. Maybe they give a reason for it, but i cant see how someone who honors Ji'e'toh would run from her study to become a Wise One without her feeling such a large need to pay her toh to Elayne. I just cant see her leaving Rand and the Aiel then and dont see why she should go to Elayne of all people (she didnt get to be a real friend with Elayne, after all, only with Egwene), if she finds a reason to leave. Maybe Rand send her to Salidar Aes Sedai, but again, if he isnt involved in Elayne, why should he send her and not a real Wise One or only Mat. The strongest reason why i cant believe they would cut that relationship is, that even tho the relationship is poorly developed in interactions between the two, rand does so much of what he does only because he loves, or at least very much likes, her. He may not focus on Cairhien, if he didnt have a plan on who should rule that city after he conquered it. And he certainly would not rush to Ceamlyn after Morgase's "death", if he didnt care that deeply for Elayne or Elayne's mom, altering the entire ending of FoH. And the bringing Mat to get Elayne to Ceamlyn and afterwards the hole succession plotline, where she has to prove she will not be a puppet of the dragon wouldnt be possible without Rands nearly foolish preperation of Ceamlyn because of his love for her. So what would in my opinion be a good way to alter this love square? Well it seems most likely we wont see Elayne in season 1 and i dont think Rands relationship with Min will start in season 1 at all, but i would still have that viewing, if altered, that all this three women love rand at some point in live. Have Rands first interaction with Elayne be after Falme and have the girls and Mat and Verin stay till he is conscious again. Maybe make it so that Egwene breaks up with Rand after Falme after he has proclaimed himself the Dragon (somewhere mid season 2) and have Elayne, who always cares for wounded animals and such feel just sorry for him and have them talk, but not more. In the stone of Tear you could cut Berelains attempt on Rand and make it be Elayne, the naive Daughter-Heir seeking experience in live, as she is finaly away from the watching eyes of her protective mother. Maybe have Rand actually not refusing this time, and make them have sex there as well as have her still explaining how to rule to Rand, so he also sees she is or would be a good ruler for the people. Maybe make her attempt pretty early so they have not 4 days but a few weaks together, where they obviously enjoy their company. That would give Rand the same reasons to do everything he does later, except one thing (which i would then have cut). This would also give Avi even more reason to feel like betraying Egwene's and Elayne's trust, so you could also keep that relativly close as well. Have Avi go to Elayne for the same exact reason as in the books, but make them even more attracted to each other in their adventures in Ebou Dar, make them discover they like each other more so than rand, even tho they still like him (but not as a love interest anymore). All the same, you could continue with Rand getting into the relationship with Min, which grows over a healthy amount of time. The only scene which would need changing, would be the veins of gold moment. Maybe have Rand also feel bad for his "affairs" with Avi (towards Elayne) and Min (towards Elayne and Avi) and have them have this talking over scene in a slightly different context; him explaining he still loves Avi and Elayne, but only as sisters, and also explaining his relationship with Min. Have Elayne and Avi come forward as a couple and tell him much the same, that they love him as brother (they wouldnt be surprised about Min and Rand, as she tells Elayne sometime in Salidar about her viewing). You can still have them helping Min bond Rand and maybe bond themselves to him as well, as they do still care for each other so very much. The only thing you have to cut then is Elayne's pregancy, which honestly only would divert Elayne from stupid decisions, but not much more. So thats what i would like to see: Have them all have relationships with Rand after each other, play up Elayne's Teen'ish seeking of experience as the main drive of her affection, develop a relationship between Elayne and Avi later. Obv still some plot points need to be changed for this still, but i think off all the options this would demand least changes. Plus, this would introduce a same sex relationship within the main group of characters, which is always a good thing, representation is always good. Feel free to comment, id like to hear your thoughts!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts! It definitely gives me more to think about. I agree that Rand and Elayne not being attached has potentially big implications for how they adapt Rand and Avi. I have to say though Avi thinking Rand is promised to Elayne doesn't make complete sense to me. It's not like the Aiel think kissing or other physical affection = engagement like the Two Rivers kids seem to. And Rand himself does not think his relationship with Elayne was serious, despite his feelings. Avi's issue seems to be mainly that she promised Egwene and she feels she broke a promise. That part could be kept and could still be a reason to bring Avi to Salidar even if the issue was more about having toh to Egwene and not also to Elayne. I think I prefer the polyamory possibility and then I think they should keep the Rand and Elayne connection in Tear, I just think we need more than that to explain Avi's reluctance and we shouldn't be asked to believe they are promised to each other after what is basically a dalliance.
Oh my this was quite a bit to digest, but I like it! I personally think a lot of the toh and interrelationship jiber jaber will be cut for a more straight forward poly story so it won't distract from the main story line, just a consequence of the limited screen time of an adaptation. That being said I feel the notion of couple attachment should be different, and the only real bond is between Rand and Elayne after her pregnancy. Maybe it was a tryst between two young people who though they could be a power couple resulting in the pregnancy, but Rand being from the more conservative Two Rivers would feel a certain responsibility to mother and child, so that may be the sticking point that Rafe uses later in the series. I mentioned this earlier but I feel the women, Aviendha especially, should be involved with other men, just to really make it seem more of a polyamory and less of a polygamy relationship.
I believe they have the perfect opportunity to expose watchers by introducing the sister wives. This explains what we need to know and given Rand and Avi are Aiel also puts down a foundation for what can happen. I'm not sure how I feel about this, but I suspect first sisters will be a bit more defined as a romantic relationship (not necessarily sexual). Even on my second read through, it's not clear what it is. I mean, Bain and Chiad? No idea what's going on there. Having said that, I think the show has a bigger problem than the books making the relationships believable. We are certainly not getting 14 seasons. So, let's say an optimistic 8 with A Memory of Light the last season. How do you shoehorn all that into seasons 2-6(?) without giving the viewer whiplash? I don't know, but it doesn't sound like a reasonable ask of the audience to me. And potentially very problematic if that's what the viewership latches on to.
The whole structure of it is extremely daunting. I have a rough sketch in my mind of the first three seasons and after that it gets hazy. But I do think it could be done well in 8 seasons if they have a plan. If it gets to a third season I’m guessing they could go as long as they need barring a major cast issue or something else unforeseen like that.
Yeah, I'm thinking eight seasons at best, maybe as little as five, but there is a lot of the middle books that can be cut out and I think the prominence of Logain in the first season is going to rapidly advance the creation of the Black Tower and thus the Sanderson saga. How this relates to the Rand wives idea is just what Rafe said, to prevent too much screentime being dedicated to agonizing about relationships, the feelings between the members of the poly relationship can be much more fast and loose, just more of living in the moment since so much is going on otherwise.
@@anydaynow01 Interesting. So are you suggesting they could get away with not making the formal declarations of love? I can kind of see how that might work. Min's visions and the trio have to work together to keep him on the right path. Maybe they interpret that as bonding later on? Honestly, the only real love interest story wise to me is Min. I get the point Reading The Pattern makes with Lanfear attacking Avi, but they don't have to be involved for Lanfear to attack anyone she's jealous of.
Oh yeah totally forgot Rands a harem story, so was Robert Jordan a proto Weeb? Sorry to jump in here all random but I was (well still am) a big WoT fan, my dad was the one who introduced me. He passed in January from Covid and one of my most cherished items he got me was a signed copy of WoT hardcover. I don’t think in the current climate of entertainment this can be done right, to many things that would “trigger” folks and with how the World is in the story. People don’t do Nuance and Subtlety anymore and it’s all about the feels. Allegory is anathema to the current crop of writers. Why I worry the Foundation series and Dune remake will fall flat as it’s to easy to get “meh” writing; so many check mark boxes must be ticked. That’s fine stuff and peoples view on things change but when something I literally grew up with gets twisted into something unrecognizable on the alter of “messaging” me how to live, I’m out. Western culture seems to be swinging in some weird directions as of late. Outside my ranting enjoyed your discourse on the story and it’s nice to see someone still loves this “problematic story”.
You ranting is perfectly understandable … Jordan wrote one of the most successful stories of all time (with everything that is in it ) and somehow people think it needs to be changed because … modern day , it is not a story about modern day … smh If you want to tell a story about modern day leave his books alone and find something else … The story is fine the way it is , how do I know ? Well it was and is wildly successful…
Though as far as thoughts on it all goes: I think it will be more focused on connections and play up less on the sex. Rand practically has to be beaten over the head before he realizes any of them have feelings for him. Even then, he feels bad about having feelings for more than one person (yet each of the boys thinks the other two have all the answers on women). Mat is more the playboy when it comes to flashing smiles and coin to impress the ladies, yet he totally gets the tables turned on him by the likes of Tylin and Tuon. They could split some of Rand's attention to Mat. The real trick of it all is conveying how being ta'verin impacts the pattern and the lives of people around them.
I don’t want them to change a thing about their relationship. Why should it be changed? Rand is literally Aiel. It is a part of their customs to have poly marriages and they aren’t hurting anyone. This “male gaze” or whatever people are talking about is really offensive to me. I am a polyamorous woman. These people don’t think we exist? The relationship between these 4 is beautiful and I love it! 🥰 💙🦋💙
Elayne is married to her duties as Queen of Andor. Aviendah is married to her people and the shaping of their future. Min´s obligations are to herself and her love for Rand and she is the only one who can fully commit to Rand in a relationship. At least for as long as he has fulfilled his destiny as the Dragon Reborn. So in that sense having the relationships play out as in the books, centered on Rand could actually work. It´s like the current discussion if women can really have it all: career, family and a fully supportive partner (who then is also playing the role of the submissive party).
A couple of things 1) I'm not invested in any of Rand's relationships except Min. Scrap that relationship and it might ruin the show for me. 2) Platonic relationships are good and have value. Not everything needs to be romanticized. I think Rand and Avi should just become friends. 3) there is a distinction between attraction and love and I think this is where Elayne falls. They would NOT work as a couple. 4) just as I don't want a bad guy of the season I don't want to see Rand have a girl of the season and I could see that happening 5) I always wanted to see Elayne and Mat together at least for a time
Completely agree! Min and Rand should be primary partners. Aviendha and Elayne should also be a couple IMO, with Elayne having a fling with Rand. Avi and Rand should just be close friends.
I would personally have it Rand meeting them one at a time in and spending screen time with them. Also showing us moments with Rand having bouts of madness and the girls calming him down. Maybe instead of Moraine teaching him how to speak to royalty it’s elayne and we have cute romantic stuff with them. Aviendah and Elyanes romance id have begin after Rand and his army fight the seachan they presume he’s dead and I’d say start a romance then kind of blind side the Audience with the reveal of oh we’ll all enter a relationship with each other. Hell I’d even add that scene that Brandon cut out with the girls making a marriage reef for Rand that would be cute asf and let’s be honest if he were going to die he’d probably want to be married to the women in his life. We could seal the bond with a sex scene between the bond of them not just elayne and Rand.
I have so many things to say about this I have no idea where to start. 1. Rand and elayne spend most of their time together “off camera” at the beginning of book 2. The book does talk about it but you actually don’t see it.....maybe not enough for a love affair but they do have foundation. 2. Why is the male gaze so offensive? I’m make and I gaze does that make me a creep? Game of thrones had huge amount of male gaze and it was successful, so much so that even I was offended. Lots of shows have male gaze and I’m actually offended by most of it. However, there is nothing wrong with having sexy moments. N fact, there could be more sex in WOT as it’s almost ignored to a fault. Maybe less is more but it’s not a crime to be sexy. 3. The fact that we are even talking about this is a credit to Robert Jordan. Adults having adult conversations is very refreshing so thanks for that. 3. Rand and his girls is hot, especially with the bond. Hubba hubba. I just hope it’s done with intelligence and care with both male and female views in mind...and please don’t be cheesy.
Well thought out video. I do not like your sequential relationship scenario (by that I mean I do not want the show to go in that direction). I do like your poly relationship scenario and hope that is how the show deals with the 4 character and their relationship with each other. Even in a poly relationship, if I were Rafe I would get rid of the Elayne pregnancy arc. I agree with you that Elayne's heirs are not necessary to the core of the story. To me, it seemed that the only reason Elayne wanted to have sex with Rand when she did was she was envious that Rand had already had sex with Min and Aviendha. She says as much that it is now her turn. I still believe that in the book Elayne loves Rand. But had Aviendha and Min not yet have had sex with Rand, I do not think Elayne would have been as insistent to have sex with Rand when she did (when she had yet to secure the throne). You can still have Mellar and Elayne interact during the Last Battle if the show does away with her pregnancy. Instead of trying to cut out Elayne's babies, the show can have him try to rape her. It would fit in with his character. And a Birgette from the Horn can still save Elayne. If the show needs one of the women to be pregnant, it can make explicit what the book has implicit: Aviendha becomes pregnant with Rand's children when they have sex at the Field of Merrilor. During the Last Battle, Aviendha notes that she is drinking much more water than she usually does.
This is going to be one of the several issues that will make, or, more likely, break the show. Whatever route they choose, they will alienate some portion of their prospective audience. Even among fans of the series, there is much division around these relationships. Non-fan reactions will be somewhat different, since they will not have any preconceived notions. They are a wild card, and could go any number of unpredictable ways. The prudes will hate a poly route, the lewds will love it, and vice versa. Todays cancel culture makes me think the prudes will win, not because they are the majority, but because they scream the loudest. Personally, I'd like to see a faithful adaptation of the series, but I highly doubt that will fly in todays culture. I'd also be very happy to be proven wrong.
I hope they don't fk up the whole adoption by introducing twisted woke bs. It's his relationship with these strong women what got the dragon reborn grounded
How do you think the Rand-Avi-Min-Elayne romance should be adapted? Give me all of your controversial opinions!
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RJ does have a poly relationship with one woman and multiple men. Granted it is not as major as Rand and the 3 women. It is Myrelle and her warders. Other characters hint that she married at least 2 of them and she has sex regularly with all of them.
I do not think you can compare the the two situations, but a relationship between one woman and multiple men do exist. Further, in this relationship, Myrelle has all the power. She has bonded each of the men. If she wanted to, she could compel them. Whereas Aviendha, Elyane and Min bond Rand. In some ways, they have a form of power over Rand that the warders lack. I wonder if the three could compel Rand post Last Battle, especially if he is no longer Taveren
Exactly
Rand's women were in love with him not with each other, the love they developed with each other was strictly sister love & all three get pregnant from Rand because somehow they are tied or connected to Rand's past life wife.
The Pattern: Gonna give this guy all the love he can handle and more to make up for the pain and death he's expecting, also, going to mess with his small town sensibilities sooo hard for a lark.
In my head cannon Elayne is Ilyena reborn. Along with that, each character gives Rand what he needs emotionally when he needs it most. Also, every time I hear someone say to just make Elayne and Avi lovers I roll my eyes. Romance between the 2 is just not there. Just because 2 characters love each other, doesn’t mean homosexuality. Friends can love each other like family without being sexual.
In writing WOT, I think RJ did a good job of grafting cultures from around the world onto his world. I think it would be a shame, and a strike against inclusivity if things are cut just because it may upset a tiny fraction of western society
So GOT that in first season has a man banging is sister doggie was wildly popular. Yet people are worried about polygamy putting off audience?
Re polygamy: I think critics should ask themselves if they aren't showing a lack of inclusivity. I have female friends from Africa - highly educated women with agency - who in polygamous marriages. They are highly offended when people think they are being oppressed. I wonder if the knee jerk reaction of looking at things through the "American Gaze" doesn't betray a certain kind isn't a kind of bigotry against something cultural practices which are different from your own, hence primitive and backward. Think about it for a second.
ha ha ha ....
Great analysis as usual. So glad I found your channel.
I am on my third go through of reading the books… Well listening to them on audible, physical books one run through… At any rate I am not worried by spoilers, LOL! Thank you for doing this!
I bit of a late reply but I dont think that we will get to see the elayne, avi, min and rand relationship. I doubt modern mainstream storytelling will allow a man to love 3 women and for them to return that love. I think elayne will be Rand's love interest. Aviendha will replace Gaul and follow Perrins story. And min will find herself attached to mat in some way
With all the "modern" changes the showrunners seem to be focused on, why not have a scenario similar to the books where the women decide Rand will be with them, and They will decide Who and When, without Rand really having any input (no pun intended). Some may say this is somehow a Male Fantasy, but others would say it is manipulation, coercion, or some other stronger words.
Simply Follow the Witcher book style. See In The Witcher books Geralt slept with a lot of sorceresses, medics, warriors and other women. By some count, Geralt had sex with around 8-9 women but that doesn't matter because Geralt always loved only one woman ( Yennefer) and had a strong feeling for Triss Merigold. Yennefer and Geralt were tied both by destiny, mutual respect and love for each other. But in Wheel of Time books the main issue is Rand as a king wants foursome polygamy. To fix this romance one woman has to be only friend not a lover. This could be either Min or Aviendha. Showrunner can either make Elyane as main romance and make her role bigger by replacing Min's Role as his emotional support of Rand(As Rand Married Elyane to become King of Andor). Another option is to make Elmindreda Rand's Only true lover who will stand for Rand from start to end (Season 1-2 - season 7-8) (As She is somewhat destined for Rand like Yennefer and Geralt)with Elayne as botched marriage with no physical relationship, Just end justifies the means kinda arc. As for Aviendha either just a fling or simply good friends with mutual respect (Her Love for Rand is forced She was not attracted to Rand from the start and was somewhat forced by Aiels for political gains). Significant changes is required to make this right. But As Raf mentioned Polyamory I am very sceptical about that possibility. Polyamory will only work If Rand only love one woman(either Min or Elyane) and other two as fling and fortune telling of pregnancy with twins or 4 baby in future will not help either.
The polyamory doesn't have to go all ways. Many poly people have primary partners. And tbh I think its better they are not all romantically involved with each other. I think Aviendha should just be exclusively with Elayne. I think Aviendha and Rand should just develop a nice, close friendship in TFH. Plus it would be interesting to see Rand have a crush and get rejected. Rand can be mostly with Min and have a smaller relationship with Elayne. Min and Elayne works too.
This is certainly true and I wouldn’t actually want Min and Aviendha to necessarily have their own romance. I’d just like them to be given a little bit more time to bond so I can find their acceptance of each other more believable.
Pls no love triangles. It's one reason I don't mind the love rhombus in wot. There's no unnecessary drama. That would make it a young adult series lol.
Awesome channel. Great analysis.
Since the first two seasons were so uneven and awkward in many ways I honestly can’t see how Rafe and writers are ever going to present the three women is any reasonable way. I’m seriously questioning almost all major plot points that may be excluded or altered beyond recognition. Since Elayne has now met Rand by saving his life I guess gratitude is the foundation of their love. I’m interested to see how or if they actually write a triple love story. Not sure how to feel about upcoming seasons- keen anticipation or complete dread😳🥰😬😭
I'm starting to wish we would have gotten an animated adaptation instead of a live action one... Seems to be no limits when it's animated..
Depending on the animation style, I agree
Thanks for the video! It was quite informative. The way I see it, Rand Al'Thor is the Dragon Reborn and hence he should be the central focus of this relationship. This means, if they go for the polyamory approach, it should just be with Rand and the three other women. I think the term "Male Gaze" is a recent development and I don't really like it when modern social trends influences materials which were written decades before. I like to keep everything by the book, where possible.
Thank you ! What is the point of inserting modern values in a tale that is meant to portray something else …
What is wrong with people now our days just tell the story …
Also, looking at our own history, it was often common place for nobles/royals to marry but be apart. Or actually only see each other infrequently due to war etc. It’s not a stretch to see them build Elayne’s “connection” to Rand from this pov. A strong ally who could produce a strong heir. Her duty to the Tower and Andor can be shown to trump her love life and leave us with a girlish fling over a crush who she sees political advantage to courting.
I really enjoy these how to adapt videos. You've probably already have these planned at some point but I'd love to see how to adapt the tower/ ajahs, how to adapt cultures of wot, and how to adapt villains and from that --how to adapt the forsaken (they probably need their own video I'd imagine)
Very well said. Although I dont see a problem with the elaine-avhiendha romantic relationship even if they still become first sisters. There are examples of sister wives in aiel culture where the wives appear to have a fondness for each other as much as the husband. I also still feel elaine will have a bit in season 1 thanks to the reshoots.
Really well done option 2 for me but let the winds of time blow how Rafe wills
I think the best they could do is to make Rand break up with Elaine. It's just imposible to make believable that they are a couple. I believe that Rand and Avi are in love and that Rand and Min are a couple but at times i don't believe Elaine even likes Rand as a person. She keeps complaining about him since book four. I'm keeping both of his relationships with Avi and Min just because. I would do something like this:
1. Keep evering the same until the end of book 5
2. Rand sends a letter breaking up with Elaine (because of the time spend apart) and Avi stays with him but angry because of this.
3. Min, seing how afected Rand is because of his relationship with Avi convinces her to forgive Rand and start dating him. Avi and Min become friends.
4. Min is alredy in love with Rand so becomes first sister with Avi so that they would never fight over him (in between books 7 and 8) .
5. In book 9 both are in a relationship with Rand and Avi keeps with them until she leaves for Rhuidean.
6. Keep the rest the same way.
I don't want to lose the moment when they bond him. I actually teared up reading that. I say keep it as close to the book as possible on this subject.
Absolutely polyamory! If for nothing else but to give the same convoluted feeling we had when untangling this love nest when reading the books to the watchers when viewing the show. To keep things from being too Rand centric they should add other prominent males in the love web, not any that are spoken for like Lan, but maybe a certain tinker, or a white cloak to really add a sense of drama. I feel the lack of other males being present in the polyamory relationship was one of the lines in the '90s that RJ wasn't going to cross that is open to interpretation in an adaptation now. This video was everything I hoped it would be, I hope Rafe is a subscriber of yours and takes notes on the poly theory you have!
In fact I think this should be a round table discussion with the youtube lore heavys, maybe you can convince Matt on the Dusty Wheel to have a chat with you and a few others about this topic!
Why? It is a story told by Jordan, he wrote what he wrote … that’s all it is a story tell it as faithfully as it is possible (in terms of length) . What do modern sensibilities have to do with it ?
Do we take out beheadings , hangings etc from stories that tell a story of a different time ?
I actually think along the line of your description of the polyamory relationship ever since that comment from Rafe, especially as it's been fitting my own impression of the "in betwee the lines" for many years!
Plus, what you put in the cons as "uneven" relationship fits in the pros imho! Because I don't believe that in any multiple ppl relationship, it being romantic or otherwise, is exactly the same hum, let's call it "level".
So basically, having Elayne and him more in a strong friendship and mutual respect and maybe even admiration from the Tear part would make sense to me. Now, to explain her going with the girls to Falme in the 2nd book, I would make it more as a "near-sister" kind of feelings with Egwene and Min, plus the fact that she wants an adventure so much, bored of being in the Tower, so sheltered in her life so far that she doesn't really understand yet the possible dangers. The wakening would be brutal, and help her get more grounded later on. Maybe she could lso start to be attracted to Min and it would reinforce her will to get along. As for Min going, it might be a viewing telling her she must go or a catastrophe would befall them all or whatever... that's the easy part with her!
Now, why would Avi resist so much, I don't think it should be related to love interest from any other. She's very dutyfull, yet "quite" stubbornly against everything the Wise Ones want her to do related to leaving her life as a Maiden of the Spear. And since it is very clear from the beginning that they want to use her to bond him to them as a people, she cld simply resist THAT. Add in the Aiel feeling that wetlanders are strange and inferior, and she would developp a kind of antagonism against her own attraction, and it's actually the later love for Elayne that would maje her understand that differebt doesn't mean inferior, abd she would feel free to love Rand too. Her resisting that feeling in the 1st place would have actually strenghtened it, so when she sees him again, it can suddenly bloom fast and strong.
Now there is plenty of time for Min and Elayne to developp a romantic relationship, both in the Tower and in Salidar before their parting, and at 1st it would be them that are the "glue" in that square, until Avi-Elayne developp too, then both Min and Avi with Rand.
That leaves Min not knowing Avi much, so they could be a bit akward together, but willing to get to know and respect each other for the sake of Rand and Elayne, not even knowing how far it may go between them, and it's ok like that. Not all relationships need to be fully "resolved" by the end of the show, it leaves room for our imagination to run wild!
Back to Elayne and Rand, I think I would make it a quite pragmatic relationship, built of respect and admiration as I mentionned earlier, and I would actually keep the pregnancy as a semi-conscious decision in time of war and insecurity. Having an heir before the LB, especially with all the "current" struggle of a nearly civil war, so soon after the one in Carhien, plus the fact that she means to take that throne as well, is just logical, nearly essential. And who better than the Dragon Reborn, currently the lover of her 2 lovers! You might even make her definitelly more lesbian than bi, but the same as kings of old that were gay still needed to have an heir, so does she.
Lastly, why would Rand run to the rescue of Morgase? Well, it has nothing to do with feelings, but simply that he cannot afford to let a Forsaken reign freely over the country, the same as Sammael in Illian, but since Ravhin was never seen as a good tactician unlike the other one, it would be logical to tackle him 1st, remove the lesser danger before reading his troops for the bigger challenge. And it's not love but respect for her mentorship that make him choose Elayne for both thrones. At least he knows and trusts her and her craftmenship at rulling a country. It would also explain better imo her reluctance at Merilor at the end, since they're not fully romanticly involved. And since it would been known that she's pregnant by him, it would still be viewed as natural that she stands with the 2 others at his funeral. And they could combine the bonding and the adoption into a single thing, the 4 of them fully bonded to each others, since she's the only one knowing how to create that weave.
There you go, my full thoughts on all that complicated plot!
And at what point does it become a retelling rather than an adaptation?
Love this analysis cause Ive considered the same. Also understand that love and relationships are what you make of them.
Doesn’t Lanfear confront Rand over Egwene because she doesn’t have all the necessary info? Did I make that up? I honestly don’t totally remember. If so, the Avi relationship isn’t specifically necessary to finish FoH.
She knew he was with Aviendha, she just didn’t know what Aviendha looked like and thought she could have been Egwene or the real Avi.
@@ReadingthePattern Ah! I knew there was something like that in there. Thanks for clarifying. Haven’t read FoH in quite a few years.
She does insult Egwene several times in previous books, she's jealous of that "peasant girl".
I have seen or heard nothing from anybody against Jordan's version of the relationship between all 4 of these people, the problem is changing the sexual orientation of any character just to satisfy your viewpoint. This is Jordan's story, not Rafe's.
Thank you, it’s a story , just tell the story and let it be … modern sensibilities do not apply … plus do I even need to say it’s fantasy ?? Trolocs are not real creatures …
What does what we do today or like today has to do with it ??
We don’t like beheadings and hangings , that’s not a reason to take them out of stories portraying a different time or fantasy … smh
Rand an Min? Min's Role is super important!
I completely agree
I think Rand-Elayne relationship, while not being as convincing as the other relationships, also has some important plot points regarding the story. His reaction to the rumors of Morgase getting killed by Rahvin makes not much sense as he has just finished warring against Shadio at Cairhien. Yet he goes on a rage because Morgase is Elayne's mom and that throne is Elayne's right.
Storywise, I think it would be the easiest to cut Aviendha from the relationship as for Lanfear to go crazy only a rumour would have been enough already. There doesn't have to be any actual relationship between them.
The idea of also adding an Elayne - Aviendha romantic relationship is a very good one. However, I have always enjoyed their sister-like relationship honestly, and I'd prefer it to stay that way because their relationship is one of the most wholesome relationships in the series already and I wouldn't want to see it given a nudge towards romance. I have another idea on that matter. Maybe Elayne - Birgitte relationship can have some romantic aspect instead. It would certainly be interesting to play with imo.
I think the show can also instead focus on some specific Green Ajah Aes Sedai and their relationships with their warders strongly, and this way it would balance the issue of Rand's relationships looking like male fantasy. It also would be nice to keep polyamorous representation for the show too.
Personally, I would like the big sister feeling of Birgitte kept more than the Elayne-Avi one, much more than the 1st as lovers and 2nd as only sisters, but that's me!
They should stick to RJ's original story and stop creating sex stories, the story is not about sex,
And the only ones having multiple sex partners besides Rand were the Aes-Sedai and their warders because of the bond and the fact that they can feel who each other are interacting with,
And this is also having to do with the wheel pattern and or Rands past life patterns, every person he meets is a piece of the puzzle to bring back his memories... nothing to do with morals or cultural beliefs...
Elaine Trackand, Avienda & Min are somehow connected to Rand's past life wife and baby.
Rand never had sex with Egwene,
Egwene never had physical sex with anyone except with Galad in the Dreamworld, so she dies a virgin.
Well actually I think you need to consider... Just kidding, this is perfect. No notes.
Pretty much how it happens in the books, start with min vision foreshadowing, have them all meet at different times. People talk about how much time they spend apart, but the whole series happens over a very short period of time, separate how much text you had to read to get to the time they meet back up from how long a period it is for the actual characters and its just not an issue. We live in a world where we are supposed to be able to love whoever we want, that has to include 1 guy and 3 ladies who love one another regardless of what anyone else thinks. If you were make the ladies have a sexual relationship between themselves instead of just having a timeshare together with the dream guy, it might be easier for a tv audience to digest, but to me its just an excuse to get the boob count up for the show, sex does not equal true love, better to have the near sister ceremony to show how the girls feel about one another. My guess is Avi and Elayne will be taking alot of baths together, just because of how GOT went, sex sells sadly and regardless of how I want it filmed they will do what they think will give them the best ratings.
Very well reasoned discussion. 👍
How much focus on this poly-relationship is actually in the books? Is it a big focus?
It involves 4 major characters so it gets a fairly large focus if you consider all the pieces of it. That said all four characters are rarely in the same place at the same time so in that sense the poly aspect of it perhaps doesn’t get as much focus as it should.
@@ReadingthePattern Thanks. I'm curious to read to see how they get to that point. And I was just wondering how much attention the relationship was given once they were all in it because it looks like there is a lot else going on in the story.
@@breezy3392 yea there definitely is a lot more going on story wise. I adore so many things about the book series but the romantic relationships are widely viewed as a weaker element and I have to agree with that. The first season of the show has definitely handled romantic relationships better so far so I have hope for the handling of this poly ship as well.
@@ReadingthePattern If they do it in the show. They might decide not to because some people will consider it controversial. We'll see
If they go with the sequential scenario they have to make sure Rand doesn't come off as promiscuous and this will take some work to show that each relationship is meaningful. Otherwise Nyneave calling him "worse than a lecher" would go from comic relief to "actually she's not that wrong"
Why would that matter. People watch soap operas with cheating philandering men all the time. Do you really think the show will suffer because Rand puts it about. Uthred in last kingdom whoring didn't affect the show. Fantasy watchers/readers are not snowflakes
@@robinirie98 It would not affect how successful the show is, but it will be a big change to who Rand as a character is.
@@preslavnikolov7382 I think it not such a hard thing to pull off. If she had a scene in season one with a green sister and her warders. And before we get to Elayne coming on to Rand in TSR, we see that the Aiel have sister wives and Rand is probably and Aielman, the audience will be well prime to see that poly is just a part of this world. I see this as generating more interest than not.
@@robinirie98 Yes, absolutely. My original comment was in the case they decide to have the relationships one after the other.
@@preslavnikolov7382 I agree. Serial monogamy serves no purpose
Randland is not modern-day. Although it does technically take place on Earth, RJ tried to write about wildly different cultures/traditions and what happens when they collide. Also - "The Pattern" has a silent but strong influence the characters are mostly unaware of. I have the advantage of responding to this video AFTER the first season aired ... any problems with Mosvani and her (multiple) warder partners?
I think if they could create short plotline bringing Min and Aviendha close as lovers it would make a lot of sense. Avi and Elayne's sister friend dynamic is so beautiful and pure. It should be as it is. Avi and Min could connect as Avi is a Wise One apprentice and Min is a Seer. They both are exceptional and have extra powers. In this way Avi should be willing and happy to include Min in the group. Moreover the central role of this group shifts from Rand to Avi who is quite deserving.Let me know Rebecca, if you think I'm being overly crazy 😀
If I was developing the story, I'd have Rand and Egwene fall out before he starts anything with anyone else, as you suggested. Then I would have Elayne be his first relationship, and his shallowest. Then Aviendha would come into the picture. Through all this, Min would be around, and there would be tension and chemistry, but she would hold herself back, trying to run from her prophecy even though she knows she can't. Elayne and Rand would break up, Aviendha and Rand would break up after Moiraine dies, and Min would swoop in. Rand would still have feelings for Aviendha and Elayne, but whatever. Then, when Semirhage puts Rand in the Domination Band, Rand actually kills Min, and she's out of the picture. Then Elayne and Aviendha come back into the picture and help Rand recover from Min's death. That's how I'd handle it.
IMO I don't think its a good idea for her to die in this particular scene. In fact it could be quite triggering to suvivors of domestic violence. Though I do agree that the stakes need to be higher and more characters in the show should die, why kill Min in that way? Rand doesn't need to be the one to kill her in order for her death to be impactful. If she's going to be killed off in the show, she should die doing something badass and important (i.e. in battle) because otherwise her character is being fridged - it shouldn't be all about how her death affects Rand.
Tbh I think Min should be Rand's primary partner. She spends the most time with him and their romance could be very well developed. I think Aviendha should be exclusively with Elayne. And Elayne can have smaller relationships with Min and Rand. Two couples with some overlap instead of some complex love triangle with Rand at the centre.
@@ibiali5211 Min is a polarizing character, because she seems to exist solely to support and guide Rand. She is introduced as a seemingly independent, unconventional woman, who is slowly turned into a damsel, a helpmate, a "best girl" for Rand. She is continually disempowered as the story progresses. So it would be the perfect resolution to her arc to be killed at the hands of the man she turned herself into a diminished version of herself for. And it would be doubly appropriate if she knew it was going to happen. Min is the prisoner of ta'veren, the instrument of the Pattern, and it's only fitting that she is cast aside once the Pattern is done with her. You can call it fridging if you like, but Min is the one who crawled inside the fridge and shut the door.
And I see no disconnect in all of this. A lot of readers seem to think that Rand al'Thor is a good-guy hero protagonist. He isn't. He is a murderer, a war criminal, and that's not even counting all of the sins he is accountable for as Lews Therin. Lews Therin's autocratic impetuous attack on Shayol Ghul literally destroyed global civilization. When the cure for the disease kills the patient, it wasn't a good cure. Lews Therin was warned by Latra Posae and others that his plan was foolish and reckless, and no female Aes Sedai and very few male Aes Sedai could be convinced to help him. But Lews Therin went forward in spite of them, and very likely TO spite them. And the entire world paid the price for his gigantic ego. Not the least was Ilyena, the wife he murdered unknowingly in his madness. How perfect would it be for Rand to murder another wife, this time with eyes wide open, and the full weight of his monstrous past comes crashing upon him. One could almost feel sorry for him, but Lews Therin/Rand's mistakes are always of his own making, he isn't a victim in any of it.
@@Siansonea Ok I could get on board with this take on fridging I just don't see why Aviendha and Elayne would then be needed to comfort Rand after he kills Min. That would ruin their subplot in Caemlyn (and even though its not liked by a lot of the fandom, at least its seperate meaning that Avi and Elayne have their own POV chapters). Fridging Min would also mean robbing Aviendha and Elayne of their agency, and while you can argue that Min did that to herself - the other two did not.
@@ibiali5211 how does anything that Rand does to Min rob Aviendha and Elayne of their agency?
I really hope they keep it the same, people just need to realize it's not real life.
I think they should keep the relationship between Min and Rand, she's the one who spend the most time with him, she always there so she is certainly a source of unconditional love and support specially with the tough times that Rand will go through.
I also think they should keep the relationship between Aviendha and Rand, I loved it, he learned everything through her and specially to care for the Aiel more than just use them as a tool, the Wise One also used Aviendha through that relationship to make Rand care for their people so they could fulfill their goal and save as many as they could. Also, their relationship is short but intense in the sense that Aviendha resist him and tried to hate him making their conversations at first very uncomfortable and passionate, it's different from the sweet friendship that transform in long-lasting love relation of Rand and Min, it's more raw and impulsive.
So the both relationships would have different dynamics, one more caring and affectionate, the other more passionate and crazy.
As for Elayne, I would also love for them to have a love relationship but more oriented in friendship, like they could be great friends and counsel each other with also having a deep care for one another like friends do but with a physical attraction. So they would provide to each other support and understanding for the roles as leaders.
And in that case, I would love for Aviendha and Elayne to develop a deep love connection, so Aviendha would be deeply in love with both of them but Elayne would only be in love with Aviendha while exploring her sweet friend/love relationship with Rand with no expectations whatsoever.
And for Min, she would be friends with Elayne and Aviendha, but would only be involved romantically with Rand.
I don't know if it's well explained, but I really think they could make it work. So it will not only be about Rand but also Aviendha sharing two love interests, and exploring the idea for Elayne to be in love with a woman while also sharing a connection with Rand that is not as deep as is it supposed to but that could adapt more easily the fact that they're not always seeing each other while being involved together.
Anyway, this video gives a lot to think about, I don't know how they will make it work, in the end I don't really care that much who's with who, but more to really be able to feel the connections between the characters and the relationships being well explored beyond the surface, to go deep.
Good video, as always, can't wait for the next one. 😊
I kind of saw the Rand Elayne relationship as a power coupling, the both were enamored with one another because of their potential and what a possible union would mean for them in the long run. Min is the caring muse and Aviendha the one who appeals to his wild side and just allows him to let loose.
What is the point of adapting a book to a TV show knowing full well what is in the book to change fundamental aspects of the book which is relationships between characters which mold and explain said characters …
Why does this even need to be a discussion ? Please someone explain, make it make sense
@@grichkatayou7558 What do you mean?
You mean you don't understand why adapt books if we change relationships?
It's simple, it's an adaptation, you have to remember that it will never be exactly like in the book, but also know that Robert Jordan was not perfect in all aspects, especially romantic relationships, so if the show can improve this aspect, why not do it?
Then, keeping in mind that they don't have indefinite time on the screen, they have to cut out the most unnecessary things, merge what can be and amplify what needs to be.
I thought it was obvious, it's on TV, the viewing audience and the ways to tell this story are not the same as through a book. It is distinct.
SPOILERS
I think Aviendha and Min should be romantic together in the series and keep the sister relationship between Elayne and Aviendha as it is in the books. Maybe have Elayne and Mat as a doomed will they won't they romance during there time in Ebou Dar, ending with them happy staying as friends as Mat marries Tuon and Elayne focuses on her kingdom and carrying Rands babies
Can you explain to me what happened to Rand and Egwene in the books and also why is Nyanaeve carrying Rands babies? Were they a thing?
@@tofunmitoyin-gbede7507 In the books Rand and Egwene drift apart and decide to stay friends instead of pursue a relationship between them.
Nynaeve does not get pregnant with Rands babies in the books, unsure where you picked that up from
I totally agree that Elayne-Rand is the least believable relationship of the three and i dont know how they will ever adapt it at all without their initial encounter in ceamlyn. The problem with only missing this encounter is the first seanchan encounter in falme (why, for instance, would elayne want to go to falme? you could make her just want to help egwene and nyneave, but in the books she goes with them to help rand "in trouble"). The problem with cutting the further relationship (if brief at best), are far more severely in my opinion: As said in the video, the hole start of the relationship with avi doesnt quit work out without rand realtionship with rand. Secondly, Avi wouldnt have a real reason to "run" from Rand and go with Mat to Elayne if not for her feeling like betraying Elayne. Maybe they give a reason for it, but i cant see how someone who honors Ji'e'toh would run from her study to become a Wise One without her feeling such a large need to pay her toh to Elayne. I just cant see her leaving Rand and the Aiel then and dont see why she should go to Elayne of all people (she didnt get to be a real friend with Elayne, after all, only with Egwene), if she finds a reason to leave. Maybe Rand send her to Salidar Aes Sedai, but again, if he isnt involved in Elayne, why should he send her and not a real Wise One or only Mat. The strongest reason why i cant believe they would cut that relationship is, that even tho the relationship is poorly developed in interactions between the two, rand does so much of what he does only because he loves, or at least very much likes, her. He may not focus on Cairhien, if he didnt have a plan on who should rule that city after he conquered it. And he certainly would not rush to Ceamlyn after Morgase's "death", if he didnt care that deeply for Elayne or Elayne's mom, altering the entire ending of FoH. And the bringing Mat to get Elayne to Ceamlyn and afterwards the hole succession plotline, where she has to prove she will not be a puppet of the dragon wouldnt be possible without Rands nearly foolish preperation of Ceamlyn because of his love for her.
So what would in my opinion be a good way to alter this love square? Well it seems most likely we wont see Elayne in season 1 and i dont think Rands relationship with Min will start in season 1 at all, but i would still have that viewing, if altered, that all this three women love rand at some point in live. Have Rands first interaction with Elayne be after Falme and have the girls and Mat and Verin stay till he is conscious again. Maybe make it so that Egwene breaks up with Rand after Falme after he has proclaimed himself the Dragon (somewhere mid season 2) and have Elayne, who always cares for wounded animals and such feel just sorry for him and have them talk, but not more. In the stone of Tear you could cut Berelains attempt on Rand and make it be Elayne, the naive Daughter-Heir seeking experience in live, as she is finaly away from the watching eyes of her protective mother. Maybe have Rand actually not refusing this time, and make them have sex there as well as have her still explaining how to rule to Rand, so he also sees she is or would be a good ruler for the people. Maybe make her attempt pretty early so they have not 4 days but a few weaks together, where they obviously enjoy their company. That would give Rand the same reasons to do everything he does later, except one thing (which i would then have cut). This would also give Avi even more reason to feel like betraying Egwene's and Elayne's trust, so you could also keep that relativly close as well. Have Avi go to Elayne for the same exact reason as in the books, but make them even more attracted to each other in their adventures in Ebou Dar, make them discover they like each other more so than rand, even tho they still like him (but not as a love interest anymore). All the same, you could continue with Rand getting into the relationship with Min, which grows over a healthy amount of time. The only scene which would need changing, would be the veins of gold moment. Maybe have Rand also feel bad for his "affairs" with Avi (towards Elayne) and Min (towards Elayne and Avi) and have them have this talking over scene in a slightly different context; him explaining he still loves Avi and Elayne, but only as sisters, and also explaining his relationship with Min. Have Elayne and Avi come forward as a couple and tell him much the same, that they love him as brother (they wouldnt be surprised about Min and Rand, as she tells Elayne sometime in Salidar about her viewing). You can still have them helping Min bond Rand and maybe bond themselves to him as well, as they do still care for each other so very much. The only thing you have to cut then is Elayne's pregancy, which honestly only would divert Elayne from stupid decisions, but not much more.
So thats what i would like to see: Have them all have relationships with Rand after each other, play up Elayne's Teen'ish seeking of experience as the main drive of her affection, develop a relationship between Elayne and Avi later. Obv still some plot points need to be changed for this still, but i think off all the options this would demand least changes. Plus, this would introduce a same sex relationship within the main group of characters, which is always a good thing, representation is always good.
Feel free to comment, id like to hear your thoughts!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts! It definitely gives me more to think about. I agree that Rand and Elayne not being attached has potentially big implications for how they adapt Rand and Avi. I have to say though Avi thinking Rand is promised to Elayne doesn't make complete sense to me. It's not like the Aiel think kissing or other physical affection = engagement like the Two Rivers kids seem to. And Rand himself does not think his relationship with Elayne was serious, despite his feelings. Avi's issue seems to be mainly that she promised Egwene and she feels she broke a promise. That part could be kept and could still be a reason to bring Avi to Salidar even if the issue was more about having toh to Egwene and not also to Elayne.
I think I prefer the polyamory possibility and then I think they should keep the Rand and Elayne connection in Tear, I just think we need more than that to explain Avi's reluctance and we shouldn't be asked to believe they are promised to each other after what is basically a dalliance.
Oh my this was quite a bit to digest, but I like it! I personally think a lot of the toh and interrelationship jiber jaber will be cut for a more straight forward poly story so it won't distract from the main story line, just a consequence of the limited screen time of an adaptation. That being said I feel the notion of couple attachment should be different, and the only real bond is between Rand and Elayne after her pregnancy. Maybe it was a tryst between two young people who though they could be a power couple resulting in the pregnancy, but Rand being from the more conservative Two Rivers would feel a certain responsibility to mother and child, so that may be the sticking point that Rafe uses later in the series. I mentioned this earlier but I feel the women, Aviendha especially, should be involved with other men, just to really make it seem more of a polyamory and less of a polygamy relationship.
I believe they have the perfect opportunity to expose watchers by introducing the sister wives. This explains what we need to know and given Rand and Avi are Aiel also puts down a foundation for what can happen. I'm not sure how I feel about this, but I suspect first sisters will be a bit more defined as a romantic relationship (not necessarily sexual). Even on my second read through, it's not clear what it is. I mean, Bain and Chiad? No idea what's going on there.
Having said that, I think the show has a bigger problem than the books making the relationships believable. We are certainly not getting 14 seasons. So, let's say an optimistic 8 with A Memory of Light the last season. How do you shoehorn all that into seasons 2-6(?) without giving the viewer whiplash? I don't know, but it doesn't sound like a reasonable ask of the audience to me. And potentially very problematic if that's what the viewership latches on to.
The whole structure of it is extremely daunting. I have a rough sketch in my mind of the first three seasons and after that it gets hazy. But I do think it could be done well in 8 seasons if they have a plan. If it gets to a third season I’m guessing they could go as long as they need barring a major cast issue or something else unforeseen like that.
Yeah, I'm thinking eight seasons at best, maybe as little as five, but there is a lot of the middle books that can be cut out and I think the prominence of Logain in the first season is going to rapidly advance the creation of the Black Tower and thus the Sanderson saga. How this relates to the Rand wives idea is just what Rafe said, to prevent too much screentime being dedicated to agonizing about relationships, the feelings between the members of the poly relationship can be much more fast and loose, just more of living in the moment since so much is going on otherwise.
@@anydaynow01 Interesting. So are you suggesting they could get away with not making the formal declarations of love? I can kind of see how that might work. Min's visions and the trio have to work together to keep him on the right path. Maybe they interpret that as bonding later on? Honestly, the only real love interest story wise to me is Min. I get the point Reading The Pattern makes with Lanfear attacking Avi, but they don't have to be involved for Lanfear to attack anyone she's jealous of.
@@ReadingthePattern they are having casting issues
Re: Lanfear: there is no reason it would have to have been Aviendha that sparked that fight in FoH.
Oh yeah totally forgot Rands a harem story, so was Robert Jordan a proto Weeb? Sorry to jump in here all random but I was (well still am) a big WoT fan, my dad was the one who introduced me. He passed in January from Covid and one of my most cherished items he got me was a signed copy of WoT hardcover. I don’t think in the current climate of entertainment this can be done right, to many things that would “trigger” folks and with how the World is in the story. People don’t do Nuance and Subtlety anymore and it’s all about the feels. Allegory is anathema to the current crop of writers. Why I worry the Foundation series and Dune remake will fall flat as it’s to easy to get “meh” writing; so many check mark boxes must be ticked.
That’s fine stuff and peoples view on things change but when something I literally grew up with gets twisted into something unrecognizable on the alter of “messaging” me how to live, I’m out. Western culture seems to be swinging in some weird directions as of late. Outside my ranting enjoyed your discourse on the story and it’s nice to see someone still loves this “problematic story”.
You ranting is perfectly understandable … Jordan wrote one of the most successful stories of all time (with everything that is in it ) and somehow people think it needs to be changed because … modern day , it is not a story about modern day … smh
If you want to tell a story about modern day leave his books alone and find something else … The story is fine the way it is , how do I know ? Well it was and is wildly successful…
@@grichkatayou7558 huh, forgot I wrote this but looks like I was on the mark with the adaptation being an issue. Thanks for the kind words.
Though as far as thoughts on it all goes: I think it will be more focused on connections and play up less on the sex. Rand practically has to be beaten over the head before he realizes any of them have feelings for him. Even then, he feels bad about having feelings for more than one person (yet each of the boys thinks the other two have all the answers on women). Mat is more the playboy when it comes to flashing smiles and coin to impress the ladies, yet he totally gets the tables turned on him by the likes of Tylin and Tuon. They could split some of Rand's attention to Mat. The real trick of it all is conveying how being ta'verin impacts the pattern and the lives of people around them.
The vast majority of robert jordans relationships make no damn sense
I don’t want them to change a thing about their relationship.
Why should it be changed? Rand is literally Aiel.
It is a part of their customs to have poly marriages and they aren’t hurting anyone. This “male gaze” or whatever people are talking about is really offensive to me. I am a polyamorous woman. These people don’t think we exist?
The relationship between these 4 is beautiful and I love it! 🥰
💙🦋💙
Yeah Rand is a good guy I've read all the books but yeah I see the potholes and yeah it doesn't really make sense to me....
Elayne is married to her duties as Queen of Andor. Aviendah is married to her people and the shaping of their future. Min´s obligations are to herself and her love for Rand and she is the only one who can fully commit to Rand in a relationship. At least for as long as he has fulfilled his destiny as the Dragon Reborn. So in that sense having the relationships play out as in the books, centered on Rand could actually work. It´s like the current discussion if women can really have it all: career, family and a fully supportive partner (who then is also playing the role of the submissive party).
A couple of things 1) I'm not invested in any of Rand's relationships except Min. Scrap that relationship and it might ruin the show for me.
2) Platonic relationships are good and have value. Not everything needs to be romanticized. I think Rand and Avi should just become friends.
3) there is a distinction between attraction and love and I think this is where Elayne falls. They would NOT work as a couple.
4) just as I don't want a bad guy of the season I don't want to see Rand have a girl of the season and I could see that happening
5) I always wanted to see Elayne and Mat together at least for a time
Completely agree! Min and Rand should be primary partners. Aviendha and Elayne should also be a couple IMO, with Elayne having a fling with Rand. Avi and Rand should just be close friends.
Very good! Also completely agree!
I would personally have it Rand meeting them one at a time in and spending screen time with them. Also showing us moments with Rand having bouts of madness and the girls calming him down. Maybe instead of Moraine teaching him how to speak to royalty it’s elayne and we have cute romantic stuff with them. Aviendah and Elyanes romance id have begin after Rand and his army fight the seachan they presume he’s dead and I’d say start a romance then kind of blind side the Audience with the reveal of oh we’ll all enter a relationship with each other. Hell I’d even add that scene that Brandon cut out with the girls making a marriage reef for Rand that would be cute asf and let’s be honest if he were going to die he’d probably want to be married to the women in his life. We could seal the bond with a sex scene between the bond of them not just elayne and Rand.
I have so many things to say about this I have no idea where to start.
1. Rand and elayne spend most of their time together “off camera” at the beginning of book 2. The book does talk about it but you actually don’t see it.....maybe not enough for a love affair but they do have foundation.
2. Why is the male gaze so offensive? I’m make and I gaze does that make me a creep? Game of thrones had huge amount of male gaze and it was successful, so much so that even I was offended. Lots of shows have male gaze and I’m actually offended by most of it. However, there is nothing wrong with having sexy moments. N fact, there could be more sex in WOT as it’s almost ignored to a fault. Maybe less is more but it’s not a crime to be sexy.
3. The fact that we are even talking about this is a credit to Robert Jordan. Adults having adult conversations is very refreshing so thanks for that.
3. Rand and his girls is hot, especially with the bond. Hubba hubba. I just hope it’s done with intelligence and care with both male and female views in mind...and please don’t be cheesy.
Well thought out video. I do not like your sequential relationship scenario (by that I mean I do not want the show to go in that direction). I do like your poly relationship scenario and hope that is how the show deals with the 4 character and their relationship with each other.
Even in a poly relationship, if I were Rafe I would get rid of the Elayne pregnancy arc. I agree with you that Elayne's heirs are not necessary to the core of the story. To me, it seemed that the only reason Elayne wanted to have sex with Rand when she did was she was envious that Rand had already had sex with Min and Aviendha. She says as much that it is now her turn. I still believe that in the book Elayne loves Rand. But had Aviendha and Min not yet have had sex with Rand, I do not think Elayne would have been as insistent to have sex with Rand when she did (when she had yet to secure the throne).
You can still have Mellar and Elayne interact during the Last Battle if the show does away with her pregnancy. Instead of trying to cut out Elayne's babies, the show can have him try to rape her. It would fit in with his character. And a Birgette from the Horn can still save Elayne.
If the show needs one of the women to be pregnant, it can make explicit what the book has implicit: Aviendha becomes pregnant with Rand's children when they have sex at the Field of Merrilor. During the Last Battle, Aviendha notes that she is drinking much more water than she usually does.
This is going to be one of the several issues that will make, or, more likely, break the show. Whatever route they choose, they will alienate some portion of their prospective audience. Even among fans of the series, there is much division around these relationships. Non-fan reactions will be somewhat different, since they will not have any preconceived notions. They are a wild card, and could go any number of unpredictable ways. The prudes will hate a poly route, the lewds will love it, and vice versa. Todays cancel culture makes me think the prudes will win, not because they are the majority, but because they scream the loudest.
Personally, I'd like to see a faithful adaptation of the series, but I highly doubt that will fly in todays culture. I'd also be very happy to be proven wrong.
I thought the children of the dragon in avienda's vision made alot of sense. Min just seemed a more natural match to perrin to me
Way prefer the polyamory over sequential monogamy, mainly because it leads to less change
Rand should only have one woman. It’s misogynistic and encourages womanising if it’s suddenly okay for a dude to have three wives
From watching this video,…..I’m sad because I know Rafe is mess up this adaptation
I will cry if they make the relationships monogamous. I want representation so bad
I hope they don't fk up the whole adoption by introducing twisted woke bs. It's his relationship with these strong women what got the dragon reborn grounded
I find you lack of faith disturbing.