It's so interesting how Berio manages to construct an entire symphony out of Schubert's sketches, and how he manages to interrupt the flow of it with his own characteristic avant-garde sound.
Dave Hurwitz just posted on his channel he considers this to be the best of all "completions" of any symphony. Berio truly fashions a new work, with the voice of Schubert, and its ghost plainly evident.
Oh, that would be very interesting, but also quite difficult, wouldn't it? Berio's score has the original too, so that helps a lot. But following Schubert's sketch would be very complex, because the ideas aren't strictly linear. That's why the first thematic idea appears in page 3 instead of the 1st one, where a variant of the main theme (probably the first that came to Schubert's mind) is crossed out.
Still my favorite "realization" of this unfinished work. He pulls no punches and quite rightly does not even try to second guess what Schubert might have done. He uses only the sketches and frankly I love his own additions. I find all the other versions, especially Newbould's, to try too hard at turning it into "great Music." (I especially dislike the latter's "recap" of the second movement's lyrical theme, which Schubert clearly added as an afterthought and I doubt would ever have used it in such a romantic - perhaps even trite - way that Newbould does).
On the contrary, anything exposed in the dominant requires a recapitulation in the tonic. It's completely basic to the grammar of sonata form that Schubert would have complied with. Maybe he would've altered it a bit, but Newbould's choice to transpose it verbatim is surely the furthest removed from second-guessing. In fact, there's a ton of second-guessing in Berio, e.g. the start of the slow movement (10:42) where he adds a whole lot to the texture. Newbould takes the sketch at its word, refuses to second-guess Schubert, and doesn't fill in any chords, and the result (at least to my taste) is much better for it. Of course, it's true that Berio's point was not to fill in the gaps with 19th-century pastiche. But on the other hand, that really gets at why I dislike the Berio, even if we take his intentions into account to "restore" (rather than "complete" or "reconstruct"): most of those gaps do not exist! The Schubert manuscript is structurally complete, with the sole exception of the first movement recapitulation. So Berio is not really filling in holes in the score; he's interrupting the score to put his own material in, and creating redundancy by putting passages Schubert rejected alongside Schubert's replacements. So it still gives a misleading impression of how unfinished the Schubert sketch really is - which is a lot less than Berio implies. The Berio can of course still be appreciated knowing all that. I can appreciate it as a new work, in a new style, paying homage to Schubert in its own way. But I don't think it can be accurately called a "realisation" of the unfinished Schubert Tenth. Newbould is a much more accurate attempt at that.
@@doublesharp4325 Sorry, I couldn't disagree more. I think all Newbould's "reconstructions are very inferior and show no imagination whatsoever. And I completely disagree with his thoughts on the "Unfinished".
@@davidjohnson9796 That's certainly your right! It's good that multiple completions are available, so that we can each enjoy the one we prefer. It was interesting to learn why you prefer this one to Newbould, even if I don't share your taste. :)
@@doublesharp4325 Certainly a very reasoned response and I like your restraint. I have been an amateur Schubert scholar (but professional musician) all my long life. I read Newbould's bio when it first came out and recently re-read it. It has many good points but is marred IMO by HIS lack of restraint. (The earlier E.J. Brown bio, although out of date, i think is a more well-thought-out bio). In particular, his views on the "Unfinished" for me are completely off-base (although his views on this are NOT unique). For me, from an emotional as well as a carefully-researched assessment of all the evidence, I am convinced that Schubert in fact thought the 2 movements complete in themselves as a two-movement symphony that he knew he couldn't improve by the addition of two additional movements. Thus he sent these 2 movements to the Graz Society hoping for a performance. I don't believe for a moment he forgot about this masterpiece (for me one of the very greatest works in Western art ever created) but was not someone to cry in his beer. Within less than 2 years he wrote his Great C major and was trying to promote this one at that time. Thus all these "completions" of the "Unfinished" I think are completely misguided. But that is MY opinion.
Doesn't anyone notice that in the trumpet and horn parts, those seem to be unusually chromatic which would not have been possible during Schubert's time. Yes, I am aware that those instruments weren't transposed in the score but even then, some of those parts weren't accounted to the technical limitations of that time.
Yes, definitely. We have to divide the two subject of musicology/restoration and ancient music/period instruments as different and at the time the attention we give to instrument is not the same as before
@@radoslavkhun299 : Berio was a rigorously trained composer, and as such was perfectly capable of producing pastiche in early nineteenth-century style to fill in the holes in the score. But that wasn't the point here!
Подобно первым лучам зари, эта музыка открывает вам глаза на новые обещания и на все чудеса природы. Вызывая невероятные силы, эти произведения трогают струны сердца, вызывают ностальгию и пробуждают любовь, ободранные жизни и оцепенение измученных стражников 🤮
Je ne sais pas si Schubert aurait apprécié que Berio s'empare de ses manuscrits inachevés et non publiés pour en faire... du Berio. Heureusement pour ce dernier peut-être, Schubert n'est pas là pour nous le dire.
![186 Chorales [6/8]: BWV 369-391 - Bach (Score)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Tjrd6GSqHM0/mqdefault.jpg)
It's so interesting how Berio manages to construct an entire symphony out of Schubert's sketches, and how he manages to interrupt the flow of it with his own characteristic avant-garde sound.
Dave Hurwitz just posted on his channel he considers this to be the best of all "completions" of any symphony. Berio truly fashions a new work, with the voice of Schubert, and its ghost plainly evident.
0:29 Allegro
9:55 Andante
22:42 Allegro
The modulation at 5:00 brings a tear to my eyes.
A masterpiece!
Great! I was planning to upload the same piece, but with Schubert's sketches instead of the actual Berio's score. :)
Oh, that would be very interesting, but also quite difficult, wouldn't it? Berio's score has the original too, so that helps a lot. But following Schubert's sketch would be very complex, because the ideas aren't strictly linear. That's why the first thematic idea appears in page 3 instead of the 1st one, where a variant of the main theme (probably the first that came to Schubert's mind) is crossed out.
@@classicalmusicanalysis That difficulty of making such a video is the primary reason why I never made it. :D
@@SPscorevideos hahahaha fair enough then!
Great to see you back!
Still my favorite "realization" of this unfinished work. He pulls no punches and quite rightly does not even try to second guess what Schubert might have done. He uses only the sketches and frankly I love his own additions. I find all the other versions, especially Newbould's, to try too hard at turning it into "great Music." (I especially dislike the latter's "recap" of the second movement's lyrical theme, which Schubert clearly added as an afterthought and I doubt would ever have used it in such a romantic - perhaps even trite - way that Newbould does).
On the contrary, anything exposed in the dominant requires a recapitulation in the tonic. It's completely basic to the grammar of sonata form that Schubert would have complied with. Maybe he would've altered it a bit, but Newbould's choice to transpose it verbatim is surely the furthest removed from second-guessing. In fact, there's a ton of second-guessing in Berio, e.g. the start of the slow movement (10:42) where he adds a whole lot to the texture. Newbould takes the sketch at its word, refuses to second-guess Schubert, and doesn't fill in any chords, and the result (at least to my taste) is much better for it.
Of course, it's true that Berio's point was not to fill in the gaps with 19th-century pastiche. But on the other hand, that really gets at why I dislike the Berio, even if we take his intentions into account to "restore" (rather than "complete" or "reconstruct"): most of those gaps do not exist! The Schubert manuscript is structurally complete, with the sole exception of the first movement recapitulation. So Berio is not really filling in holes in the score; he's interrupting the score to put his own material in, and creating redundancy by putting passages Schubert rejected alongside Schubert's replacements. So it still gives a misleading impression of how unfinished the Schubert sketch really is - which is a lot less than Berio implies.
The Berio can of course still be appreciated knowing all that. I can appreciate it as a new work, in a new style, paying homage to Schubert in its own way. But I don't think it can be accurately called a "realisation" of the unfinished Schubert Tenth. Newbould is a much more accurate attempt at that.
@@doublesharp4325 Sorry, I couldn't disagree more. I think all Newbould's "reconstructions are very inferior and show no imagination whatsoever. And I completely disagree with his thoughts on the "Unfinished".
@@davidjohnson9796 That's certainly your right! It's good that multiple completions are available, so that we can each enjoy the one we prefer. It was interesting to learn why you prefer this one to Newbould, even if I don't share your taste. :)
@@doublesharp4325 Certainly a very reasoned response and I like your restraint. I have been an amateur Schubert scholar (but professional musician) all my long life. I read Newbould's bio when it first came out and recently re-read it. It has many good points but is marred IMO by HIS lack of restraint. (The earlier E.J. Brown bio, although out of date, i think is a more well-thought-out bio). In particular, his views on the "Unfinished" for me are completely off-base (although his views on this are NOT unique). For me, from an emotional as well as a carefully-researched assessment of all the evidence, I am convinced that Schubert in fact thought the 2 movements complete in themselves as a two-movement symphony that he knew he couldn't improve by the addition of two additional movements. Thus he sent these 2 movements to the Graz Society hoping for a performance. I don't believe for a moment he forgot about this masterpiece (for me one of the very greatest works in Western art ever created) but was not someone to cry in his beer. Within less than 2 years he wrote his Great C major and was trying to promote this one at that time. Thus all these "completions" of the "Unfinished" I think are completely misguided. But that is MY opinion.
Doesn't anyone notice that in the trumpet and horn parts, those seem to be unusually chromatic which would not have been possible during Schubert's time. Yes, I am aware that those instruments weren't transposed in the score but even then, some of those parts weren't accounted to the technical limitations of that time.
@@federicoventroni4118 It is, because Berio was an avantgard composer and wasnt able to compose the interludii in the pre-romantic style...
Yes, definitely. We have to divide the two subject of musicology/restoration and ancient music/period instruments as different and at the time the attention we give to instrument is not the same as before
@@radoslavkhun299 could you express better?
@@radoslavkhun299 : Berio was a rigorously trained composer, and as such was perfectly capable of producing pastiche in early nineteenth-century style to fill in the holes in the score. But that wasn't the point here!
Подобно первым лучам зари, эта музыка открывает вам глаза на новые обещания и на все чудеса природы. Вызывая невероятные силы, эти произведения трогают струны сердца, вызывают ностальгию и пробуждают любовь, ободранные жизни и оцепенение измученных стражников 🤮
Je ne sais pas si Schubert aurait apprécié que Berio s'empare de ses manuscrits inachevés et non publiés pour en faire... du Berio. Heureusement pour ce dernier peut-être, Schubert n'est pas là pour nous le dire.
Fortunately for us, Schubert's opinions don't matter anymore! :P
(At least regarding this lol)
0:29