If they bought it as an existing home, and didn't pay for an inspection before buying (some people don't believe it or not) then it is their own fault.
@@idaslapter5987 😆😂🤣 You seriously think a person/couple would be dumb enough buy a house without a safety inspector approval by a loan officer. Yes, I do agree with you that It is the architecture's fault for failing to see housing construction projects to meet the standard criteria and land safety development on base of the house is build on.
@@FTNS743 That is not how it works. Inspections are optional to the buyer. AND it doesn't mean a inspector would have even caught this as there was no issue until after 7 years of ownership. And structural engineers are not brought in unless an inspector see something to alert them of an issue. This is a builder issue if still under 10 warranty and if that has passed it will be their issue to deal with financially. Structural issues can happen even if a home is built to code. Grounds shift, concrete cracks. Water intrusions can happen and cause issues. So much can happen and this is why it is the home owners responsibility to maintain and keep an eye out for any issues. During this crazy market so may buyers forgo inspections just to get into a home. It is never advisable but, if you want to get a house this can be something you skip to get your offer accepted by the seller. It's a crazy time in real estate.
It could sit on the beam, but has to be figured in to the loads, and possibly the floor joists would need to be bulked up for it. Clearly the fireplace, and the stone columns, weren't.
why is the repair cost 100K? can't u just install some support beams in the basement (garage) and be done? that seems off considering you could have a foundation shored up with piers for 100K (and I would think that would be a lot more work than fixing this issue).
@@wasatchm It sounds as those they did a "paste job" to keep it from falling down, but it may even be that the house on the lower level has been pushed down into the foundation and "sank", as you noticed this is built out in the desert, so I wonder how solid the land was with that much weight from the stone fireplace and concrete beams on the 2nd floor. It did say this took 7 years to get this way. I wondered if they will need to deal with the base foundation.
At 1:36, the engineer said, "The support beam over the garage is simply too small and is now weakening under the pressure of the home." The team (contractor, architect, engineer and builder) who build the house is responsible, not the insurance company. If the house actually collapse, then the insurance company will pay up and the insurance company will go after contractor, etc.
Someone blew it. If the building is built as designed, the builder is off the hook. If the builder cut corners and put in a weaker beam than the architect and engineer specced, it's on the builder. And in all cases, the building inspector should have caught a heavy load on a wooden beam. Yet, probably is immune unless they took a payoff that can be proved.
There should have been a block wall built under the beam during initial construction and that block wall should be steel re-enforced and grouted with concrete or steel posts should be placed there and one post connected to the other so on. However the insurance companies do not want to give out money, they are a sham!
" If the house actually collapse, then the insurance company will pay up" Not at this point. The insurance policy clearly refers to a "sudden and unexpected" event. Now that the issue has been found, a collapse will not be covered. And the prior claims will prove it.
All of these things would have been pointed out by a home inspector, which they obviously didn't use when they placed their bid for the home. Yet, they appear wealthy enough to afford paying for one. They sound like very entitled people. They'll lose any civil case they'll file on this matter, and are likely to be countersued to pay for the legal costs of all other parties. When a home is poorly built, it doesn't take 7 years to finally notice it. In a liberal state, they MIGHT have a case. But not here.
@@bobmazzi7435 They obviously didn't hire an inspector. Any inspector would have noticed at least one of these major construction issues. So, everyone is off the hook, except for the home owners. Make stupid choices, win stupid prizes.
Never thought I'd say this -- but I've gotta side with the insurance company on this one. One minute in, I could see where this was going, and thought to myself, "No way their insurance will pay for a collapse that hasn't happened". Since the fundamental problem is due to faulty design, I'm surprised they didn't sue the architect and code inspector!
Same with a tree overhanging a house - it doesn't matter how dangerous the tree is the insurance company has no interest in paying to prune or remove the tree.
I wonder if there’s a statute of limitations for situations like this and that’s why they didn’t mention a lawsuit? I live in Texas so I have no idea what the laws are like in Arizona.
@@TexasLadyS Arizona AND Texas are both @freedom fry states. I'm doubting either state even HAS Code, an architect, or licensed builders you can find with assets yhou can sue over.
The house was either built wrong or they renovated it with more weight on top without additional structural support. Either way, their remedy lies with the builder/architect who approved the design.
@@charleswalter2902 The builder is absolutely at fault. THIS is why builders and any contractor for that matter is required to carry General Liability Insurance. But the builder has an obligation to provide a warranty for his product. The OP isn't wrong about the architect or even code enforcement for signing off on this without adequate structural support.
kchicker: Unless it was an add on after the fact. Also done without an approved building permit. People do these things. I've been in the structural inspection biz and have been on a few of them. Call in an unlicensed contractor, have it built, (fireplace/columns) and then when problems arise try to fix the blame on someone else because you can't go after the unlicensed contractor that's across the border counting his money! Did you stop and think why they didn't go after the builder after they had an engineer give them the results? That's the first thing that entered my mind. Now they still aren't. Probably lawyers advice.
Likely a blend of incompetence, idiocy, and corruption. Just goes to show how easy it is for this to happen. I wonder if the previous owners knew about this issue and that’s why they sold this house to the current owners.
The home wasn't built for them. It was already built when they viewed it. Like she said, she fell in love with the views. So, nothing else mattered. When you use a seller's home inspection, it's still Buyer Beware. Buyers should always use their own home inspector. It looks like the couple is on the hook for their repairs.
I can't believe they didn't even mention the people actually responsible. The builder, designer, architect, what have you. It was sort of weird that they just wanted to turn it into a hit piece on the insurance companies.
They owned the house over 5 years I.E. they alone are responsible......builders most likely did have a beam or two thier...5 years of ownership they had plenty of time to remove some and try an insurance scam....p.s. no collapse no collapse insurance RETARDS ARE PREVENTING THE INSURANCE TO KICK IN
@@WHSmith-zk2ox Whatever the details, masonry should not be supported by wood structure. It's a common code requirement--it could be based on engineering fact---IDK.
@@pcatful So you say........ What is coded as engineering fact today was fiction yesterday...... Those pesky codes.... What the world needs today is more code breakers that know what they are talking about.... Or so it would seem...... I think those kinds of people are called Mavericks, or engineers, or inventors.... Imagine that...
Back in the day, when I purchased my first home to live-in; that was Miami in the early 1990s, first mortgages with rates of 8 to 9% and 9% to 10% were typical. People will have to accept the possibility that we won't ever return to 3%. If sellers must sell, home prices will have to decline, and lower evaluations will follow. Pretty sure I'm not alone in my chain of thoughts.
If anything, it'll get worse. Very soon, affordable housing will no longer be affordable. So anything anyone want to do, I will advise they do it now because the prices today will look like dips tomorrow. Until the Fed clamps down even further, I think we're going to see hysteria due to rampant inflation. You can't halfway rip the band-aid off.
consider moving your money from the housing market to financial markets or gold due to high mortgage rates and tough guidelines. Home prices may need to drop significantly before things stabilize. Seeking advice from a financial advisor who understands the market could be helpful in making the right decisions.
Carol Vivian Constable is the licensed fiduciary I use. Just research the name. You’d find necessary details to work with a correspondence to set up an appointment..
Sometimes the fireplace has cosmetic changes done to it after the fact. The customer might have wanted heavier stone instead of veneer around it, and instead of being 5' high, now they want the heavy stone to go up to the ceiling. This is pretty common and the structure is not considered.
@@levthelion As a former Union carpenter on custom home builds, we always ran changes past the owners rep and changed the plans with detailed "as built" drawing and materials lists. This allowed the Architect to voice concerns and gave the Engineer the specific materials used in the change.
How about you find the BUILDER? Who built that home who authorized those weak beams? SOMEONE IS AT FAULT and it's not the owner....this is on the BUILDER.
The think was it wasn't a weak beam. I saw a stone fireplace and concrete column. Who in their right mind doesn't burry that into the foundation? Would can't take the strain of that weight. It probably would be perfectly fine without those features
There's videos on RUclips showing them putting in a stronger support beam alongside a failing one. It's not cheap but it works. They can certainly sue the builder and the town because the town's building inspectors either missed this or looked the other way on it.
Here’s my take folks: whomever sealed the drawings ‘may’ be liable. Need more history of the home and info. Note: Architect does not do ‘structural’ drawings. Engineer does. AZ statute for residential is clear that it does not require an architect for single family houses. Architects are the coordinators and master conceptual designers. They formulate the aesthetic vision and work closely with the owners, and coordinate engineers and other consultants. They can seal the drawings. If they did, they can be liable. The AZ statute however, DOES require structural and civil engineer seals on plans in most residential cases. Building dept usually won’t even accept home plans without engineer. So the structural engineer that stamped-sealed the drawings and calcs are most likely liable. BUT truly, it is VERY incredibly rare that a structural engineer will undersize a beam or leave out a post. And they factor in approx. 20% oversize of things, for unexpected loads. If CHANGES were made AFTER the permit was issued, (the fireplace or other extra weight, stone or etc) were added, or maybe a post was removed for more car space in garage? Or perhaps a beam was substituted, to save money? In such case, I don’t believe any professional can be sued. -Need to see the original stamped plans, including civil engineer site drainage plans and the Geotech engineer’s soils report. Basically, we need a little more history of the home to gather conclusions just yet. In any case, this is very sad to hear. Best wishes to the owners, and glad that at least nobody was hurt.
@@bennym1956 They would have been better off just to have never tried to fix it and just let the house fall in under its own weight. It would have collapsed quickly if they had left it alone. At least if it fell in they could have collected an insurance settlement
"Arizona's Family" are dumbed down asses! Smith-Mundt Modernization Act 🎬 2012 made these Pressitutes of False and/or Partial Truths Propaganda for Profit-Seas! Were "too stupid" to understand what's really going on and who's to Blame Game!
Oh please, grow up. It’s mediocre journalism, not “fake” news. Words matter. Fake news would mean the house doesn’t exist and the entire story is fabricated … which for your simpleton brain means made up.
@@mewanttools7275 Not fake news. The insurance company (correctly) denied their claim. The news was poorly focused. That's a reporter that only understands the consumer complaint, but doesn't understand the actual underlying problem.
Get rid of the stone and cement portions of the upper story. Wood structures were never intended to hold that much weight. Stone fireplaces and chimneys were always meant to be built into the foundation to prevent this sort of thing.
Having been in structural engineering for 30 yrs, they need to go back to the home builder and the original structural engineer. The fault lies there, and they need to file a lawsuit against them. Too bad the engineering tech's didn't catch it, that was part of my job: to catch issues like that, alert the structural engineer, and design the floor and beams accordingly.
...though, did the owner add more 'stuff' to cause this? We are all assuming improper inspections etc. Homeowners are notorious for adding additions and "improvements" over time.
@@aday1637 good question, something that would come out in a lawsuit. Maybe why they don't sound like they've properly filed one yet. Most would NEVER go this many years without figuring out who's truly at fault and holding them responsible. So your question makes me wonder if they did add some or all of that stuff and are now butt-hurt because their structure can't handle it.
@@morninboy True, no self respecting engineer would. I have known people in the biz tho who liked to say "if I can't see it from my backyard"... Back in the day, we would sometimes walk jobs that were SOOOOOO out of spec you'd swear no engineer had ever looked at the plans. Like rebuild the whole multi-story bldg bad. Also there is the possibility it was an after-market job, as others have suggested. Who knows...
Fault isn't forever. Lot of things go into the determination of fault and how long it passes done the chain of title from original owner to the present. Aside from the intervening contractual barriers they may face (acceptance, waiver, due diligence, etc.) there may be statutes of limitation.
I would love to see an update after the builder, architect, & inspectors have been contacted. I hope they can find some resolution to this. Can’t help but also wonder if there is also foundation issues.
They're usually LLC's and just declare bankruptcy, so you'll never get anything out of them. Home inspectors have a bond, in most states an inspection is required by the bank before they approve loan application, that is one avenue open to them. They need to find a way of torching the house now, that's the only way an insurance claim will bail them out now.
Yep. Their issue is with the architect and/or builder, assuming they didn't add any additional structures onto the house themselves after construction. The beam used was to small to meet the code for load bearing. Did the construction company use a thinner beam to save on costs and not follow the architects plan or did the architect miscalculate the weight and design it with a beam that was too small? Could they build a double wall there with the proper support beam? Usually an additional beam is added to the existing beam, but ... if that beam is already warping, that might not be possible.
Really, its a matter of jacking and replacing undersized beam. I've done this type work with great success and it's not all that expensive if they locate the right contractor. Such is life.
that beam was to small for the span existing.. even without the load of the fireplace.. it looked to be at 20~30 feet.. that's way to long for 3 unsupported 2x8s nailed together
Whoever stamped the original building plans would be responsible. Building code enforcement approves and inspects plans stamped and approved by an engineer or architect. I have delt with insurance companies for over 30 years and I would be shocked if this ever got approved by a claim's agent. I wish these homeowners the best of luck getting this resolved.
When was the chimney installed? After framing inspection. Wonder if they are not going after the builder ( not even mentioned) is because the chimney was installed after the house got it certificate of occupancy.
I’m not a builder, just an observer. It looks to me there are vertical supports between each garage door that would support the beam spanning under the deck above. They may have had a drainage problem due to the heavy rains this season or over time thus allowing water to accumulate over an extended period of time and compromise the beam. Above the beam there are 2x4s sandwiched together which leaves me to believe the vertical supports between the garage doors are going to be of similar construction and possibly 2x6s. I think it’ll be determined to be a maintenance issue and not a fault of construction. Then again, what do I know
It seems to be a gamble to buy a house nowadays because Property developers can literally cut corners where the house can stay standing for at least 6 to 8 years and during that time the developer can easily close down and then open up the same business with a different name to avoid being sued.
One of the responsibilities of designing e dwelling. Go after the architect, engineer your original design at home and the local code compliance that approbed the building plans
Their favorite place/home in the entire world statement tells us most likely they have multiple houses in many locations around the world or visit regularly scenic places across the globe. To do that you must have a pretty good life. Not a reason why you wouldn't file an insurance claim instead of spending your cash but they have it to spend if need be. Move everything out and then let it colap[see then rebuild it properly with the insurance money.
My parents went through issues with the dream house they built. The contractor cut corners and the backside of the building started to tear away from the building. The contractor had also left out support under the building. It had a crawlspace. They had to put in 30 concrete pads and caissons. They were fortunate enough to be able to have enough money to be able to repair it on their own. They withheld final payment from the contractor. It all ended up in court and they ended up living in the house through all of it. It got repaired fine and dandy eventually. It made life hell for them for several years.
On the TV, the show, "Forensic Files" brought to light the story of a small family living in Dripping Springs, Texas. The father, a high-energy executive was brought to his knees by mold in the house. Stacke Botrus is a deadly mold that never gets better. In short, inspectors found 14 water leaks in this custom made 10,000 sq ft home. This family had Farmers Insurance for their home and they refused the couple to even repair the leak!! It would ONLY get worse as they lived in a hot, very humid climate. The couple sued Farmers & won. The husband never got back on his feet & the family had to totally abandon the home, leaving all of their belongings behind because the mold was so very toxic. Farmer Insurance is another greedy insurance company. And their rates are some of the highest. How many millions of $$$$$ do their CEOs make every year while they greedily pick their customers' pockets while torturing them? This couple also should have read all the fine print in their insurance contract, or hired a good home inspector before closing escrow would have saved this couple a whole lot of money.
Why should the insurance company pay for the builders fraud? This is why rates sky rocket- paying for others mistakes like drunk drivers costing victims insurance the medical bill
A few years back I helped a buddy put in a 40 foot long steel beam and supports to fix a similar problem in a house he had bought. It sure didn't cost him any $100K. The materials were not much money at all, and a good pizza party for everyone that helped afterwards. No troubles with it passing inspection either, we had a couple construction workers in the crew and the inspector said he'd never seen such a neat job.
I'm a contractor and am often shocked when I hear what people charge for work. Case in point... we're doing a garage fix on Friday that will cost me about $1500 for material and labor. The insurance company gave the client $7600. Another contractor bid the job for $12,500! - I told my client, "how about I do it for what your insurance company is giving you, and I'll give you the deductible back"
@@barnandhome Yea, government wanted me to buy a storm shelter for thousands when I pointed out all I need is $500 to replace my furnace that was crushed so I can melt some steal and make one. There was metal laying around everywhere for the taking.
Sounds like a builder issue. Did they have the home built or was it pre-owned. Either way the builder should be responsible and hopefully be able to retrofit it.
Steel I beam is what is needed. We had a home that carried 3 stories and a wood beam would not support that with the weight of a floor to ceiling fire place. We installed a steel I beam with steel posts and it worked fine. Had we not had a good builder, another may have left the wood beam which would have shifted as the house aged.
3 story home...good lord. Not needed. 3 flights of steps? I have seen townhome styled builds like that. They're dreadful!!!! I bet accidents from falling down steps goes up 3X in a home like that. :D
The Insurance policy verbiage clearly says; "that the collapse has to happen suddenly on Friday the 13th during a leap year between the hours of noon an 2PM while the First Lady of the White House comes for a visit." Had they only waited for this to happen the Insurance company would have been more than happy to cover their claim after the couple payed out a $250K deductible.
I'm wondering if the beam could handle the weight initially but then the homeowners upgraded the home with the gigantic stone fire place and columns. Plus, the insurance company's policy is pretty specific so it's not on them. Looks more civil in nature as in someone may have to get sued.
I agree the key event is when the heavy fire place was added. Was it original or added afterwards? It’s lack of load transfer to footings at foundation is a code violation.
After we had a house fire in 2019 I suffer ptsd from how the insurance company treated us and what they put us through. We got our house fixed but the process of dealing with them was beyond stressful. I wouldn’t wish that experience on anyone.
Sue the architect and the inspector that approved the plans. This is a design and construction issue. Architects have to have a license and plans have to approved.
I once had a life insurance policy that I thought was supposed to pay off upon my death and my beneficiaries would be cared for after funeral and burial expenses, but I was surprised when one day I decided to read the fine print of course I didn't read the fine print before you know the one that is specifically sized and strategically placed hoping you make the same mistake most people do. Well, I quickly replaced it with what I needed because it stated specifically that I had to die within the U.S. That didn't sit well with me since I enjoyed the freedom to travel outside the U.S. on my vacations. The moral of the story is that's why lawyers get paid to suffer reading those tinny letters we don't like to read and it shows how deceptive insurance companies can be. Buyers beware.
It's kind of a bummer that with all the good you could guys could do helping people deal with injustices you dedicate your time to helping a rich couple with a home repair they can clearly afford.
Right or wrong, by helping people of a higher socioeconomic status, it may prevent someone from a lower socioeconomic status from going through something like this in the first place. The world doesn’t revolve around us plebs, unfortunately.
I do have to say, that is one gorgeous desert lot they have. Love the house, the semi circular driveway, the entire lot. I'm in Canada, but my brother and sis in law lived in Arizona for ten years before cancer took him. They both fell love with the desert landscape, and built a brand new home in El Mirage. They would have loved this home.
My 1979 Tennessee Brick Ranch had a brick fireplace that stuck out in the room like an eyesore. It was a behemoth he decided to take it out because one day my husband was standing next to the door, and glanced along the edge of where the brick met the drywall and saw a gap that gap was an inch. Which is pretty darn significant. We start inspecting the fireplace and saw that the gap was inside as well away from the block chimney. They have never the builder had not secured the brick face to the block with the proper metal straps. They were completely disconnected. We could’ve been sitting in here watching TV and that entire brick wall could’ve collapsed on us. The brick wall went all the way up to the ceiling and was about 9 feet wide. We decided to take it down including the hearth, which was 2 feet high and about a foot deep. It was a behemoth in the room. It was a huge project, removing it. Once we got it out we could see the gaps on the flooring the weight of all that brick and concrete and mortar was absolutely ridiculous sitting on a wood floor. Yes, the 2 x 6 choices were fine however, there were gaps clearly it had not only settled but now was a huge liability. It was all removed.
Like how you added that one minor detail at the end: "one thing I forgot to mention..." How many tons does that stone fireplace and chimney weigh? And it's not sitting on it's own foundation and footers? The focus of your story is completely wrong. How could anyone expect an insurance company to cover such a huge blunder in the construction?
My first thought is was the stone fire place an add on or did the architect know about the pile of rocks in the middle of room? Second thought was drainage issues and how much that contributed with the record rains we just got
Im guessing it was privately designed. Someone purchased the land and designed their own home. They "knew an architect", maybe "a friend" who drew up the plans to the best of their "experience". If land evaluations/testing weren't done, there is problem #1. If the architect was new to the field that is problem #2. If the original plans were altered placing the garage under the house, that is problem #3. If builders'crew were brought in from the outside of nurseries, that is problem #4. If this was built to flip, the owner may have paid off the inspector, problem #5. Real estate sales inspector should have caught the blatant issue (unsupported fireplace & columns) but..... It sure makes me think the garage wasn't originally under the house. An architect creates many pages in a set of house plans. Each plan is signed off by an engineer...electrical engineer, plumbing engineer, structural engineer, etc etc etc.... Skip the specialist's stamp of approval and the results are this house. Ultimately it is: The architect, the inspector and finally the builder who are at fault.
@@SledDog5678 good luck pinning anything on the inspector. City or independent. Garage beam was covered with drywall like everything else. At least at final inspection. Prior to that if it was built per plan and the city or county inspector wasn’t smart enough to see the structural deficiencies at the strap and shear inspection or even at the frame inspection. All they’ll say is it was built per plan. And if that’s the case it should have been discovered by the plan checkers prior to the permit being issued. The homeowner should sue everyone involved including the builders subcontractors and anyone else they can. I agree the architect has responsibility but the structural engineers that signed off on this are the ones holding the bag. But like I said the homeowner should include everyone in a lawsuit and let the court sort the responsible parties out by their limitations of liability. They have a horrible mess on their hands in every way possible on this one.
Still adding a support beam, either of wood or steel, adds more weight; they had best be sure the foundation itself can carry that weight, and something tells me the foundation itself may not be adequate.
If the beam on the first floor is not strong enough to carry the load of the structure above, it was (apparently) not engineered correctly. Look like the architect/designer (maybe the builder?) made a serious mistake.
I’m curious if the stone fireplace and concrete was the original build, or was added afterwards. If it was afterwards, the builder isn’t responsible. If it was a diy by the previous owner, there may not be a way to collect even if found liable. This will be an interesting case to follow.
With most of these BS stories where some losers run to the media with their sob story to get sympathy from idiots in order to cajole a settlement from an insurance company on something not covered.... something is almost certainly not being said.
WOW... the house is slowly collapsing and the insurance claims even if it does collapse, it's not on them because it didn't happen all at once and has been a pre-determined issue. I'm sorry but if the insurance refuses to cover something, especially something this serious, then the insurance is worthless.
I once lived in a subdivision where the cast concrete chimneys were separating from the housing structure. My neighbor had a fire in their fireplace one night. The separation caused a gap from the heat shield. Hot gases started a fire within the wall that wasn’t discovered until a few hours had passed. Everyone got out okay. The company that had made the chimneys was out of business by this time. Contractors long gone. 15-20 year old subdivision. I asked my insurance company what they could do to prevent it from happening in my home. They said the same thing. They wouldn’t pay for any fixes. There has to be an “event” before they step in. Not taking their side. That is the business of insurance. Sometimes you are betting against calamity to yourself with the premiums you pay.
@@bradleymcwilliams6348 So you "guess" there are regulations and then ask why regulations you guess exist weren't followed. With your bright example it's obvious that logic and reason are dead.
Farmers was the worse to deal with after we were hit by a tornado at lake of the Ozark. We actually paid extra for tornado insurance and they still denied us for months. Eventually farmers insurance guy came out and constantly told us what wasn’t covered, all I wanted todo was ring his scrawny neck!
@@blockygamer1 Horse crap. Perhaps they weren't paying attention, or did the all American thing and got cheap to pocket some extra loot... Who knows? Me, I didn't have the opportunity to finish high school. Actually never even saw the need to.... However, I developed a significant and engineered construction technology for which I wrote my own application discussion, did my own drawings and submitted to the U.S.P.T.O. for which I was granted a patent for... A technology that is so significant in fact that Arizona would be chomping at the bit to utilize if all those "educated" jack wads running the show had any sense.. And my architectural rendition utilizing this technology is flawless..... What is it you may ask? It is a technology that would allow for the construction and instillation of one linear mile per day of a superior southern border protection barrier that is based on a concrete format that can cost 1/3rd to 1/2 less than what is currently being forced on the taxpayer by the United States Army Corp of Engineers and for which can be in place at the production value of 1 linear mile per day..... People with some sort of degree don't necessarily impress me.... I know better, seen better, hell, I have even done better... So save your snark, wit, and sarcasm for someone else that would either be impressed, or fooled by your line of horse crap.... Oh, and did I cheat? Damn straight I did..... And for a damned good effect and a damned good reason.... So enjoy playing by the rules while life fuks over on you..... Because everyone else is doing it....... Thank you very much.....
Insurance only covers after the fact, they don't cover preventative measures. How is it that the building passed inspection with such inadequate sub-structure?
Sadly some inspections are not that great. Like the code, it's a minimum of oversight to try to bring some safety into the mix. If the inspector has time they'll pick your place apart. Other days they inspect it from inside the truck.
Ok this is a rare occassion where I agree with insurance. This isn't because of some act of nature or terrible accident it is because of poor engineering. Either the previous homeowners did something to make the house unsound or the original builders did. Either way inspection should have caught it. The fireplace needs to be removed. We have a brick fireplace and underneath it is a another brick wall to support it. Brick is heavy. Remove the fireplace, get the proper supports in place and move on. If you like the fireplace loom get a fake one and something with lighter materials. Calling insurance over this would be like me calling them because the stairs on my deck were rotten and needed replacing. They don't cover that, if they break and someone falls through they would.
After reading the comments about suing the right party, it almost seems like the couple is trying to squeeze the insurance company instead of having to retain a lawyer to sue the builder and developers and the city who inspected the building of the house. They know who they should be going after after, they're trying to shame Farmers into paying.
They're hosed. Most likely state law has a statute of limitations, almost certainly shorter than 7 years, protecting the builder and engineer from being sued. Generally builders get WAY more protection from state laws than homeowners do. And the insurance policy language is crystal clear. Even if they had waited a month or two for the whole thing to fall down, that wouldn't be "sudden" and probably would mean the claim would be denied. If you don't have the expertise or common sense to see a problem with the plans, it's advisable to hire someone who does to have a look.
@@michaelreyes8182 Agreed that's an option. A statute of limitations is law however, so the suit in a court of law would be more difficult. I don't think we know from the report how old the house is. They had it 7 years. They may have bought it from a previous owner.
I was in insurance. It's odd that people don't look at their policies when they're insuring 100's of thousands of dollars. I will say, insurance companies first look at how they can not pay.
How interesting they decided to try and get money from the insurance company. Do they not know that the architect, engineer and city inspector are actually at fault?! We need an update on this….
State Farm did not cover our pipe burst in our kitchen. We were covered for “pipe bursts”but because the line ran under a slab in CA they wouldn’t cover. Cost us $26,000 in damages even though first call was to them and claim number filed. Never again!
@@lang-ed3bk Two of my friends have had similarly large claims with Allstate and Geico respectively; same runaround. I think *all* insurance companies are like that. In the OP's case, it's clearly some combination of builder/architect/engineer/inspector, and they should ALL be sued, but the OP should also sue the insurance company; let the lawyer negotiate for coverage and then payment. For some reason, insurance companies tend to be less line-in-the-sand with attorneys than with end-customers. It's worth a shot if you can find an attorney to do it on contingency.
Linda: If I don't have these beams here my house will 90% collapse Also Linda: It's a collapse, the insurance should pay No Linda, a collapse is what happens when you don't put those beams up. You chose to call a structural engineer and put the beams up so it isn't your insurance companies problem. If you wanted your insurance to pay for a collapse you should have let it go, called no one and went to "visit relatives" somewhere else until it collapsed then played dumb. Understand your insurance policy when you take it out, actually read the thing. Know exactly what you're covered for and under what conditions. Don't try to stretch reality.
... no Ma'am... it isn't a collapse if nothing has collapsed. Your insurance company listened. They gave you an answer. You just don't like the answer. Go after the builder or the previous seller that may have known.
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This is not an insurance issue. This is a builder/construction issue. Go sue them and the architect who approved the plans.
If they bought it as an existing home, and didn't pay for an inspection before buying (some people don't believe it or not) then it is their own fault.
@@idaslapter5987 😆😂🤣 You seriously think a person/couple would be dumb enough buy a house without a safety inspector approval by a loan officer. Yes, I do agree with you that It is the architecture's fault for failing to see housing construction projects to meet the standard criteria and land safety development on base of the house is build on.
@@FTNS743 As a real estate agent, I have seen some stupid buyers that don't want the added expense of having an inspection done.
@@FTNS743 That is not how it works. Inspections are optional to the buyer. AND it doesn't mean a inspector would have even caught this as there was no issue until after 7 years of ownership. And structural engineers are not brought in unless an inspector see something to alert them of an issue. This is a builder issue if still under 10 warranty and if that has passed it will be their issue to deal with financially. Structural issues can happen even if a home is built to code. Grounds shift, concrete cracks. Water intrusions can happen and cause issues. So much can happen and this is why it is the home owners responsibility to maintain and keep an eye out for any issues. During this crazy market so may buyers forgo inspections just to get into a home. It is never advisable but, if you want to get a house this can be something you skip to get your offer accepted by the seller. It's a crazy time in real estate.
Who's the city inspector that looked at that beam and said it was adequate? I can tell it's way too small and I'm not a builder or an inspector.
The structure of the fireplace should have gone down to the foundation, not sit on a wood beam. Architect,builder and code inspector are all at fault.
They didn’t purchase the home new, they could still sue the inspector.
It could sit on the beam, but has to be figured in to the loads, and possibly the floor joists would need to be bulked up for it. Clearly the fireplace, and the stone columns, weren't.
why is the repair cost 100K? can't u just install some support beams in the basement (garage) and be done? that seems off considering you could have a foundation shored up with piers for 100K (and I would think that would be a lot more work than fixing this issue).
@@wasatchm It sounds as those they did a "paste job" to keep it from falling down, but it may even be that the house on the lower level has been pushed down into the foundation and "sank", as you noticed this is built out in the desert, so I wonder how solid the land was with that much weight from the stone fireplace and concrete beams on the 2nd floor. It did say this took 7 years to get this way. I wondered if they will need to deal with the base foundation.
@@wasatchm it has to be to code..... there is no way a run like that can be wood... it should have been steel from the start.
At 1:36, the engineer said, "The support beam over the garage is simply too small and is now weakening under the pressure of the home." The team (contractor, architect, engineer and builder) who build the house is responsible, not the insurance company. If the house actually collapse, then the insurance company will pay up and the insurance company will go after contractor, etc.
Someone blew it. If the building is built as designed, the builder is off the hook. If the builder cut corners and put in a weaker beam than the architect and engineer specced, it's on the builder. And in all cases, the building inspector should have caught a heavy load on a wooden beam. Yet, probably is immune unless they took a payoff that can be proved.
There should have been a block wall built under the beam during initial construction and that block wall should be steel re-enforced and grouted with concrete or steel posts should be placed there and one post connected to the other so on. However the insurance companies do not want to give out money, they are a sham!
" If the house actually collapse, then the insurance company will pay up"
Not at this point. The insurance policy clearly refers to a "sudden and unexpected" event. Now that the issue has been found, a collapse will not be covered. And the prior claims will prove it.
All of these things would have been pointed out by a home inspector, which they obviously didn't use when they placed their bid for the home. Yet, they appear wealthy enough to afford paying for one. They sound like very entitled people. They'll lose any civil case they'll file on this matter, and are likely to be countersued to pay for the legal costs of all other parties.
When a home is poorly built, it doesn't take 7 years to finally notice it. In a liberal state, they MIGHT have a case. But not here.
@@bobmazzi7435 They obviously didn't hire an inspector. Any inspector would have noticed at least one of these major construction issues. So, everyone is off the hook, except for the home owners. Make stupid choices, win stupid prizes.
Never thought I'd say this -- but I've gotta side with the insurance company on this one. One minute in, I could see where this was going, and thought to myself, "No way their insurance will pay for a collapse that hasn't happened". Since the fundamental problem is due to faulty design, I'm surprised they didn't sue the architect and code inspector!
Same with a tree overhanging a house - it doesn't matter how dangerous the tree is the insurance company has no interest in paying to prune or remove the tree.
I wonder if there’s a statute of limitations for situations like this and that’s why they didn’t mention a lawsuit? I live in Texas so I have no idea what the laws are like in Arizona.
@@TexasLadyS Arizona AND Texas are both @freedom fry states. I'm doubting either state even HAS Code, an architect, or licensed builders you can find with assets yhou can sue over.
Wait till they get the home insurance premiums. Its up almost everywhere even without making any claims.
They just need to suck it up and fix it. This is a duilders problem.
The house was either built wrong or they renovated it with more weight on top without additional structural support. Either way, their remedy lies with the builder/architect who approved the design.
Builders & architects DON'T approve plans. Planning departments do. I think your renovation thing is probably exactly what happened.
@@charleswalter2902 The builder is absolutely at fault. THIS is why builders and any contractor for that matter is required to carry General Liability Insurance. But the builder has an obligation to provide a warranty for his product. The OP isn't wrong about the architect or even code enforcement for signing off on this without adequate structural support.
kchicker: Unless it was an add on after the fact. Also done without an approved building permit. People do these things. I've been in the structural inspection biz and have been on a few of them.
Call in an unlicensed contractor, have it built, (fireplace/columns) and then when problems arise try to fix the blame on someone else because you can't go after the unlicensed contractor that's across the border counting his money!
Did you stop and think why they didn't go after the builder after they had an engineer give them the results? That's the first thing that entered my mind. Now they still aren't. Probably lawyers advice.
more fake news right?
Why did the house pass inspection in the first place? How did they even get a building permit?
Likely a blend of incompetence, idiocy, and corruption. Just goes to show how easy it is for this to happen. I wonder if the previous owners knew about this issue and that’s why they sold this house to the current owners.
It a "red" state things. They believed in "Less Government"!!! They like to give free water in the dessert.
Or, like the tower in south Florida, the owners added more weight than originally designed.
The home wasn't built for them. It was already built when they viewed it. Like she said, she fell in love with the views. So, nothing else mattered. When you use a seller's home inspection, it's still Buyer Beware. Buyers should always use their own home inspector. It looks like the couple is on the hook for their repairs.
@@carolinematusevich889 to be fair they probably bought it cheaper years ago. 2016 housing price is atleast half of what it is now.
I can't believe they didn't even mention the people actually responsible. The builder, designer, architect, what have you. It was sort of weird that they just wanted to turn it into a hit piece on the insurance companies.
I'm surprised that the insurance company hasn't cancelled the insurance... the house should be condemned until it's made livable.
Odd how folks think sometimes I suppose.....
It's a used home so the building inspector could have caught this as well.
@@gillsmoke What if he is a retard? Like building inspectors need qualifications anymore.....
They owned the house over 5 years I.E. they alone are responsible......builders most likely did have a beam or two thier...5 years of ownership they had plenty of time to remove some and try an insurance scam....p.s. no collapse no collapse insurance RETARDS ARE PREVENTING THE INSURANCE TO KICK IN
A fireplace should never sit on a second story cross beam.
A fireplace should be built into the foundation with reinforced rebar tied into
Why don’t they get some guys to knock it down and remove it, after reinforcing the floor first.
@@sct4040 That may be part of the repair. Still very expensive.
Who says?
@@WHSmith-zk2ox Whatever the details, masonry should not be supported by wood structure. It's a common code requirement--it could be based on engineering fact---IDK.
@@pcatful So you say........ What is coded as engineering fact today was fiction yesterday...... Those pesky codes.... What the world needs today is more code breakers that know what they are talking about.... Or so it would seem...... I think those kinds of people are called Mavericks, or engineers, or inventors.... Imagine that...
Back in the day, when I purchased my first home to live-in; that was Miami in the early 1990s, first mortgages with rates of 8 to 9% and 9% to 10% were typical. People will have to accept the possibility that we won't ever return to 3%. If sellers must sell, home prices will have to decline, and lower evaluations will follow. Pretty sure I'm not alone in my chain of thoughts.
If anything, it'll get worse. Very soon, affordable housing will no longer be affordable. So anything anyone want to do, I will advise they do it now because the prices today will look like dips tomorrow. Until the Fed clamps down even further, I think we're going to see hysteria due to rampant inflation. You can't halfway rip the band-aid off.
consider moving your money from the housing market to financial markets or gold due to high mortgage rates and tough guidelines. Home prices may need to drop significantly before things stabilize. Seeking advice from a financial advisor who understands the market could be helpful in making the right decisions.
I will be happy getting assistance and glad to get the help of one, but just how can one spot a reputable one?
Carol Vivian Constable is the licensed fiduciary I use. Just research the name. You’d find necessary details to work with a correspondence to set up an appointment..
She appears to be well-educated and well-read. I ran a Google search for her name and came across her website; thank you for sharing.
I am so sorry, Your house is beautiful and I hope everything can be corrected.
Sue the architect……and the engineer who stamped the plans.
Yeah the city!
Contractor. I seriously doubt this building was ever seen by an architect or engineer.
@@thatjeff7550 Whoever made the plans or the builder could be sued but it only within so many years of construction.
Sometimes the fireplace has cosmetic changes done to it after the fact. The customer might have wanted heavier stone instead of veneer around it, and instead of being 5' high, now they want the heavy stone to go up to the ceiling. This is pretty common and the structure is not considered.
@@levthelion As a former Union carpenter on custom home builds, we always ran changes past the owners rep and changed the plans with detailed "as built" drawing and materials lists. This allowed the Architect to voice concerns and gave the Engineer the specific materials used in the change.
How about you find the BUILDER? Who built that home who authorized those weak beams? SOMEONE IS AT FAULT and it's not the owner....this is on the BUILDER.
Yup!
And the city inspector who approved ot as is
The think was it wasn't a weak beam. I saw a stone fireplace and concrete column. Who in their right mind doesn't burry that into the foundation? Would can't take the strain of that weight. It probably would be perfectly fine without those features
There's videos on RUclips showing them putting in a stronger support beam alongside a failing one. It's not cheap but it works. They can certainly sue the builder and the town because the town's building inspectors either missed this or looked the other way on it.
It's called sistering.....
@@michaeljarosz4062 Right! that's it!
Why would they used wood beam ,is steel beam not available for a house that big?
Price
Because steel is more expensive. Duh
Here’s my take folks: whomever sealed the drawings ‘may’ be liable. Need more history of the home and info. Note: Architect does not do ‘structural’ drawings. Engineer does. AZ statute for residential is clear that it does not require an architect for single family houses. Architects are the coordinators and master conceptual designers. They formulate the aesthetic vision and work closely with the owners, and coordinate engineers and other consultants. They can seal the drawings. If they did, they can be liable. The AZ statute however, DOES require structural and civil engineer seals on plans in most residential cases. Building dept usually won’t even accept home plans without engineer. So the structural engineer that stamped-sealed the drawings and calcs are most likely liable. BUT truly, it is VERY incredibly rare that a structural engineer will undersize a beam or leave out a post. And they factor in approx. 20% oversize of things, for unexpected loads.
If CHANGES were made AFTER the permit was issued, (the fireplace or other extra weight, stone or etc) were added, or maybe a post was removed for more car space in garage? Or perhaps a beam was substituted, to save money? In such case, I don’t believe any professional can be sued. -Need to see the original stamped plans, including civil engineer site drainage plans and the Geotech engineer’s soils report. Basically, we need a little more history of the home to gather conclusions just yet. In any case, this is very sad to hear. Best wishes to the owners, and glad that at least nobody was hurt.
This is a construction issue. You need to call the builder. Sue the developer.
They are 2nd owner - they screwed. Builder probably out of business , if not, go to bankruptcy
@@bennym1956 They would have been better off just to have never tried to fix it and just let the house fall in under its own weight. It would have collapsed quickly if they had left it alone. At least if it fell in they could have collected an insurance settlement
GLWT
So, did the reporter ask about the original developer and builder?
No….fake news at work!
reporters never ask the proper questions.. they just want a sexy 30 second soundbite.
"Arizona's Family" are dumbed down asses! Smith-Mundt Modernization Act 🎬 2012 made these Pressitutes of False and/or Partial Truths Propaganda for Profit-Seas! Were "too stupid" to understand what's really going on and who's to Blame Game!
Oh please, grow up. It’s mediocre journalism, not “fake” news. Words matter. Fake news would mean the house doesn’t exist and the entire story is fabricated … which for your simpleton brain means made up.
@@mewanttools7275 Not fake news. The insurance company (correctly) denied their claim. The news was poorly focused. That's a reporter that only understands the consumer complaint, but doesn't understand the actual underlying problem.
Was the home built to Code? Go after the builder
Get rid of the stone and cement portions of the upper story. Wood structures were never intended to hold that much weight. Stone fireplaces and chimneys were always meant to be built into the foundation to prevent this sort of thing.
I wonder if the heavy stone fireplace was added after it was built.
The whole house needs to be inspected. Who knows what else is lacking.
i bet shes a feminist
Having been in structural engineering for 30 yrs, they need to go back to the home builder and the original structural engineer. The fault lies there, and they need to file a lawsuit against them. Too bad the engineering tech's didn't catch it, that was part of my job: to catch issues like that, alert the structural engineer, and design the floor and beams accordingly.
...though, did the owner add more 'stuff' to cause this? We are all assuming improper inspections etc. Homeowners are notorious for adding additions and "improvements" over time.
@@aday1637 good question, something that would come out in a lawsuit. Maybe why they don't sound like they've properly filed one yet. Most would NEVER go this many years without figuring out who's truly at fault and holding them responsible. So your question makes me wonder if they did add some or all of that stuff and are now butt-hurt because their structure can't handle it.
No engineer would approve that. How did it get past inspection or was it an illegal renovation?
@@morninboy True, no self respecting engineer would. I have known people in the biz tho who liked to say "if I can't see it from my backyard"... Back in the day, we would sometimes walk jobs that were SOOOOOO out of spec you'd swear no engineer had ever looked at the plans. Like rebuild the whole multi-story bldg bad. Also there is the possibility it was an after-market job, as others have suggested. Who knows...
Fault isn't forever. Lot of things go into the determination of fault and how long it passes done the chain of title from original owner to the present. Aside
from the intervening contractual barriers they may face (acceptance, waiver, due diligence, etc.) there may be statutes of limitation.
This is an issue they need to take up with whoever built the house, not the insurance company.
Home insurance avoids paying as much as they can.
The homeowners need to file a lawsuit against the seller, the builder, the real estate broker, the inspectors during the build.
I would love to see an update after the builder, architect, & inspectors have been contacted. I hope they can find some resolution to this. Can’t help but also wonder if there is also foundation issues.
Good luck on an update!
They're usually LLC's and just declare bankruptcy, so you'll never get anything out of them. Home inspectors have a bond, in most states an inspection is required by the bank before they approve loan application, that is one avenue open to them. They need to find a way of torching the house now, that's the only way an insurance claim will bail them out now.
There will be, and I can fix those too.... It is in the 50k price I quoted... I know this problem like the back of my hand.......
...if there ARE issues. 1 & many are not =. MONKEY is an appropriate name for you. No disrespect to monkeys.
there are foundation issues
Yep. Their issue is with the architect and/or builder, assuming they didn't add any additional structures onto the house themselves after construction. The beam used was to small to meet the code for load bearing. Did the construction company use a thinner beam to save on costs and not follow the architects plan or did the architect miscalculate the weight and design it with a beam that was too small? Could they build a double wall there with the proper support beam? Usually an additional beam is added to the existing beam, but ... if that beam is already warping, that might not be possible.
Really, its a matter of jacking and replacing undersized beam. I've done this type work with great success and it's not all that expensive if they locate the right contractor. Such is life.
Nope. They didn't hire a building inspector. It's all on them.
Plans have to be submitted to the city/county and is supposed to undergo code and engineering inspection before a permit is even issued.
I suspect they used the OSB I beams, which are trash. The beam probably got wet and started collapsing.
that beam was to small for the span existing.. even without the load of the fireplace.. it looked to be at 20~30 feet.. that's way to long for 3 unsupported 2x8s nailed together
Whoever stamped the original building plans would be responsible. Building code enforcement approves and inspects plans stamped and approved by an engineer or architect. I have delt with insurance companies for over 30 years and I would be shocked if this ever got approved by a claim's agent. I wish these homeowners the best of luck getting this resolved.
When was the chimney installed? After framing inspection. Wonder if they are not going after the builder ( not even mentioned) is because the chimney was installed after the house got it certificate of occupancy.
I’m not a builder, just an observer. It looks to me there are vertical supports between each garage door that would support the beam spanning under the deck above. They may have had a drainage problem due to the heavy rains this season or over time thus allowing water to accumulate over an extended period of time and compromise the beam. Above the beam there are 2x4s sandwiched together which leaves me to believe the vertical supports between the garage doors are going to be of similar construction and possibly 2x6s. I think it’ll be determined to be a maintenance issue and not a fault of construction. Then again, what do I know
Inspector didn't catch that when it was built? Architect? Builder? Framing contractor? Lots of people to sue here.
It seems to be a gamble to buy a house nowadays because Property developers can literally cut corners where the house can stay standing for at least 6 to 8 years and during that time the developer can easily close down and then open up the same business with a different name to avoid being sued.
To say nothing of the fact that present-day lumber is harvested from very young trees, meaning less strength and rot resistance.
You can always track them down and ask if they want to be reasonable, or eat your gun.
governmetn is the problem, not the solution.
One of the responsibilities of designing e dwelling. Go after the architect, engineer your original design at home and the local code compliance that approbed the building plans
Get ahold of the architect.
The need to go and find the building inspector that passed on the beam. It would seem that the architect should be responsible too.
Cant sue the city....
Well if they love the house that much, it's worth spending $100k to save it.
Chump change for them.
@@jazziez6467 How do you know that?
Only if they have $100k for fixing the problems, without ruining their retirement plan
Yeah I would get an equity line credit to fix it!
Their favorite place/home in the entire world statement tells us most likely they have multiple houses in many locations around the world or visit regularly scenic places across the globe. To do that you must have a pretty good life. Not a reason why you wouldn't file an insurance claim instead of spending your cash but they have it to spend if need be. Move everything out and then let it colap[see then rebuild it properly with the insurance money.
My parents went through issues with the dream house they built. The contractor cut corners and the backside of the building started to tear away from the building. The contractor had also left out support under the building. It had a crawlspace. They had to put in 30 concrete pads and caissons.
They were fortunate enough to be able to have enough money to be able to repair it on their own. They withheld final payment from the contractor. It all ended up in court and they ended up living in the house through all of it. It got repaired fine and dandy eventually. It made life hell for them for several years.
Sue the Builder and the towns building inspector
On the TV, the show, "Forensic Files" brought to light the story of a small family living in Dripping Springs, Texas.
The father, a high-energy executive was brought to his knees by mold in the house.
Stacke Botrus is a deadly mold that never gets better.
In short, inspectors found 14 water leaks in this custom made 10,000 sq ft home.
This family had Farmers Insurance for their home and they refused the couple to even repair the leak!!
It would ONLY get worse as they lived in a hot, very humid climate.
The couple sued Farmers & won. The husband never got back on his feet & the family had to totally abandon the home, leaving all of their belongings behind because the mold was so very toxic.
Farmer Insurance is another greedy insurance company. And their rates are some of the highest.
How many millions of $$$$$ do their CEOs make every year while they greedily pick their customers' pockets while torturing them?
This couple also should have read all the fine print in their insurance contract, or hired a good home inspector before closing escrow would have saved this couple a whole lot of money.
Why should the insurance company pay for the builders fraud? This is why rates sky rocket- paying for others mistakes like drunk drivers costing victims insurance the medical bill
I wonder if that fireplace was original to the building, or added later without engineering for the additional weight.
Thank you - had to scroll way down to find someone with that suspicion.
There is a reason no one is talking about the original builder.
A few years back I helped a buddy put in a 40 foot long steel beam and supports to fix a similar problem in a house he had bought. It sure didn't cost him any $100K. The materials were not much money at all, and a good pizza party for everyone that helped afterwards. No troubles with it passing inspection either, we had a couple construction workers in the crew and the inspector said he'd never seen such a neat job.
I'm a contractor and am often shocked when I hear what people charge for work. Case in point... we're doing a garage fix on Friday that will cost me about $1500 for material and labor. The insurance company gave the client $7600. Another contractor bid the job for $12,500! - I told my client, "how about I do it for what your insurance company is giving you, and I'll give you the deductible back"
Where do you get a crane, steel beam, drill, engineer, and team of skilled workers for less than $2000? You fkin LIAR
@@barnandhome Yea, government wanted me to buy a storm shelter for thousands when I pointed out all I need is $500 to replace my furnace that was crushed so I can melt some steal and make one. There was metal laying around everywhere for the taking.
Where was the building Inspector win this house went up?
exactly.
😂😂😂 Building inspector, you’re funny
No, you don't stack stone on wood framing. Everyone knows that, or should.
@@Jack_Russell_Brown That light beam in the garage looks like it was undersized to carry any load across that span.
Being that this is in Arizona ... i can totally believe this. It sure is a different world down there.
The building codes in Arizona have alarmed me since we moved there 13 years ago.
Sounds like a builder issue. Did they have the home built or was it pre-owned. Either way the builder should be responsible and hopefully be able to retrofit it.
Steel I beam is what is needed. We had a home that carried 3 stories and a wood beam would not support that with the weight of a floor to ceiling fire place. We installed a steel I beam with steel posts and it worked fine. Had we not had a good builder, another may have left the wood beam which would have shifted as the house aged.
Red Iron is the way to go
@@tommitchell8425 You mean painted, mild steel??
3 story home...good lord. Not needed. 3 flights of steps? I have seen townhome styled builds like that. They're dreadful!!!! I bet accidents from falling down steps goes up 3X in a home like that. :D
The Insurance policy verbiage clearly says; "that the collapse has to happen suddenly on Friday the 13th during a leap year between the hours of noon an 2PM while the First Lady of the White House comes for a visit." Had they only waited for this to happen the Insurance company would have been more than happy to cover their claim after the couple payed out a $250K deductible.
And there needs to be a feral zebra on your couch at the time of collapse. This is a horror story.
Sarcass much
multiple stories wood made. It is definitely not a colapse, but simply a construction defect. The builder is at fault.
I'm wondering if the beam could handle the weight initially but then the homeowners upgraded the home with the gigantic stone fire place and columns. Plus, the insurance company's policy is pretty specific so it's not on them. Looks more civil in nature as in someone may have to get sued.
I agree the key event is when the heavy fire place was added. Was it original or added afterwards? It’s lack of load transfer to footings at foundation is a code violation.
Remove/replace stone fireplace and columns to remove the weight.
After we had a house fire in 2019 I suffer ptsd from how the insurance company treated us and what they put us through. We got our house fixed but the process of dealing with them was beyond stressful. I wouldn’t wish that experience on anyone.
That sounds awful and it’s absolute insanity how insurance companies are allowed to operate.
Sorry for your experience but this is not an insurance problem, it’s a builder and inspector problem.
Sue the architect and the inspector that approved the plans. This is a design and construction issue. Architects have to have a license and plans have to approved.
I once had a life insurance policy that I thought was supposed to pay off upon my death and my beneficiaries would be cared for after funeral and burial expenses, but I was surprised when one day I decided to read the fine print of course I didn't read the fine print before you know the one that is specifically sized and strategically placed hoping you make the same mistake most people do. Well, I quickly replaced it with what I needed because it stated specifically that I had to die within the U.S. That didn't sit well with me since I enjoyed the freedom to travel outside the U.S. on my vacations. The moral of the story is that's why lawyers get paid to suffer reading those tinny letters we don't like to read and it shows how deceptive insurance companies can be. Buyers beware.
It's kind of a bummer that with all the good you could guys could do helping people deal with injustices you dedicate your time to helping a rich couple with a home repair they can clearly afford.
Injustices? LOL keep thinking everyone else is to blame for you being poor. These couples are morons who aren't suing the builder.
You could tell with her Botox lips
You make a lot of assumptions.
I don’t care if they’re rich or poor, they got ripped off ❤❤
Right or wrong, by helping people of a higher socioeconomic status, it may prevent someone from a lower socioeconomic status from going through something like this in the first place. The world doesn’t revolve around us plebs, unfortunately.
I do have to say, that is one gorgeous desert lot they have. Love the house, the semi circular driveway, the entire lot. I'm in Canada, but my brother and sis in law lived in Arizona for ten years before cancer took him. They both fell love with the desert landscape, and built a brand new home in El Mirage. They would have loved this home.
Make sure the house collapses on that cactus, then fire & brimbstone will hail down on everyone involved. It's protected you know. LOL
My 1979 Tennessee Brick Ranch had a brick fireplace that stuck out in the room like an eyesore. It was a behemoth he decided to take it out because one day my husband was standing next to the door, and glanced along the edge of where the brick met the drywall and saw a gap that gap was an inch. Which is pretty darn significant. We start inspecting the fireplace and saw that the gap was inside as well away from the block chimney. They have never the builder had not secured the brick face to the block with the proper metal straps. They were completely disconnected. We could’ve been sitting in here watching TV and that entire brick wall could’ve collapsed on us. The brick wall went all the way up to the ceiling and was about 9 feet wide. We decided to take it down including the hearth, which was 2 feet high and about a foot deep. It was a behemoth in the room. It was a huge project, removing it. Once we got it out we could see the gaps on the flooring the weight of all that brick and concrete and mortar was absolutely ridiculous sitting on a wood floor. Yes, the 2 x 6 choices were fine however, there were gaps clearly it had not only settled but now was a huge liability. It was all removed.
Like how you added that one minor detail at the end: "one thing I forgot to mention..."
How many tons does that stone fireplace and chimney weigh? And it's not sitting on it's own foundation and footers?
The focus of your story is completely wrong. How could anyone expect an insurance company to cover such a huge blunder in the construction?
click bait!
Not one home inspector missed the wildly inadequate support beam?
Could be one of those cheap preformed beams being use to save on cost.
My first thought is was the stone fire place an add on or did the architect know about the pile of rocks in the middle of room? Second thought was drainage issues and how much that contributed with the record rains we just got
Good point… I had not considered this past winter’s amount of rain. Indeed a possible culprit
Builder,engineer and architect. They are the ones responsible.
Im guessing it was privately designed. Someone purchased the land and designed their own home. They "knew an architect", maybe "a friend" who drew up the plans to the best of their "experience". If land evaluations/testing weren't done, there is problem #1.
If the architect was new to the field that is problem #2.
If the original plans were altered placing the garage under the house, that is problem #3. If builders'crew were brought in from the outside of nurseries, that is problem #4. If this was built to flip, the owner may have paid off the inspector, problem #5.
Real estate sales inspector should have caught the blatant issue (unsupported fireplace & columns) but.....
It sure makes me think the garage wasn't originally under the house.
An architect creates many pages in a set of house plans. Each plan is signed off by an engineer...electrical engineer, plumbing engineer, structural engineer, etc etc etc....
Skip the specialist's stamp of approval and the results are this house.
Ultimately it is:
The architect, the inspector and finally the builder who are at fault.
@@SledDog5678 good luck pinning anything on the inspector. City or independent. Garage beam was covered with drywall like everything else. At least at final inspection. Prior to that if it was built per plan and the city or county inspector wasn’t smart enough to see the structural deficiencies at the strap and shear inspection or even at the frame inspection. All they’ll say is it was built per plan. And if that’s the case it should have been discovered by the plan checkers prior to the permit being issued. The homeowner should sue everyone involved including the builders subcontractors and anyone else they can. I agree the architect has responsibility but the structural engineers that signed off on this are the ones holding the bag. But like I said the homeowner should include everyone in a lawsuit and let the court sort the responsible parties out by their limitations of liability. They have a horrible mess on their hands in every way possible on this one.
Still adding a support beam, either of wood or steel, adds more weight; they had best be sure the foundation itself can carry that weight, and something tells me the foundation itself may not be adequate.
Something tells me you don't know what you are talking about. The weight of beams is minuscule compared to the total loading of a structure.
@@markthebuilder9837 Read the part about "the Foundation not being adequate to support the weight of the budling" again for the first time.
Time to sue the builder!
The engineers Screwed up Sue the architect and the engineers
If the beam on the first floor is not strong enough to carry the load of the structure above, it was (apparently) not engineered correctly. Look like the architect/designer (maybe the builder?) made a serious mistake.
I’m curious if the stone fireplace and concrete was the original build, or was added afterwards.
If it was afterwards, the builder isn’t responsible.
If it was a diy by the previous owner, there may not be a way to collect even if found liable.
This will be an interesting case to follow.
Everyone is so positive it's the builders fault. The beam also looked like it might have water damage.
@helidude
Everyone jumps to conclusions, they have no idea what happened! People add stuff all the time without permits.
With most of these BS stories where some losers run to the media with their sob story to get sympathy from idiots in order to cajole a settlement from an insurance company on something not covered.... something is almost certainly not being said.
How is this Farmers' Fault....seems this is a builders' issue they lived in the house for 7 years and it's happening now....GTFOH
The insurance does not cover 'probable' collapse. This is a home warranty issue. They should pursue the builder instead.
WOW... the house is slowly collapsing and the insurance claims even if it does collapse, it's not on them because it didn't happen all at once and has been a pre-determined issue.
I'm sorry but if the insurance refuses to cover something, especially something this serious, then the insurance is worthless.
I once lived in a subdivision where the cast concrete chimneys were separating from the housing structure. My neighbor had a fire in their fireplace one night. The separation caused a gap from the heat shield. Hot gases started a fire within the wall that wasn’t discovered until a few hours had passed. Everyone got out okay.
The company that had made the chimneys was out of business by this time. Contractors long gone. 15-20 year old subdivision.
I asked my insurance company what they could do to prevent it from happening in my home. They said the same thing. They wouldn’t pay for any fixes. There has to be an “event” before they step in. Not taking their side. That is the business of insurance. Sometimes you are betting against calamity to yourself with the premiums you pay.
The "we don't need no regulations" crowd doesn't like it when their house collapses. Ooops!
@@bradleymcwilliams6348 So you "guess" there are regulations and then ask why regulations you guess exist weren't followed. With your bright example it's obvious that logic and reason are dead.
The house needs high strength steel pillars and I beams to support the weight of the second floor.
That's on the Builder/Structural Engineer and Permits. Who knows if the stone work was done to Code and Permitted.
The homeowners own an albatross. They won't even be able to resell the home in the future. They would have to declare the construction defects.
Farmers was the worse to deal with after we were hit by a tornado at lake of the Ozark. We actually paid extra for tornado insurance and they still denied us for months. Eventually farmers insurance guy came out and constantly told us what wasn’t covered, all I wanted todo was ring his scrawny neck!
There's a reason why it takes five years of college to get a legitimate degree in Architecture.
Is this an example of that? 😅😂🤣😅😂😂😂 😉
@@WHSmith-zk2ox No, the exact opposite.
@@WHSmith-zk2ox an example of someone who cheated or dropped out
@@blockygamer1 Horse crap. Perhaps they weren't paying attention, or did the all American thing and got cheap to pocket some extra loot... Who knows?
Me, I didn't have the opportunity to finish high school. Actually never even saw the need to.... However, I developed a significant and engineered construction technology for which I wrote my own application discussion, did my own drawings and submitted to the U.S.P.T.O. for which I was granted a patent for...
A technology that is so significant in fact that Arizona would be chomping at the bit to utilize if all those "educated" jack wads running the show had any sense..
And my architectural rendition utilizing this technology is flawless.....
What is it you may ask?
It is a technology that would allow for the construction and instillation of one linear mile per day of a superior southern border protection barrier that is based on a concrete format that can cost 1/3rd to 1/2 less than what is currently being forced on the taxpayer by the United States Army Corp of Engineers and for which can be in place at the production value of 1 linear mile per day.....
People with some sort of degree don't necessarily impress me.... I know better, seen better, hell, I have even done better... So save your snark, wit, and sarcasm for someone else that would either be impressed, or fooled by your line of horse crap....
Oh, and did I cheat? Damn straight I did..... And for a damned good effect and a damned good reason.... So enjoy playing by the rules while life fuks over on you..... Because everyone else is doing it.......
Thank you very much.....
Insurance only covers after the fact, they don't cover preventative measures. How is it that the building passed inspection with such inadequate sub-structure?
Sadly some inspections are not that great. Like the code, it's a minimum of oversight to try to bring some safety into the mix. If the inspector has time they'll pick your place apart. Other days they inspect it from inside the truck.
a lot of homeowners add their own projects without getting proper permits, could be a possibility
Ok this is a rare occassion where I agree with insurance. This isn't because of some act of nature or terrible accident it is because of poor engineering. Either the previous homeowners did something to make the house unsound or the original builders did. Either way inspection should have caught it. The fireplace needs to be removed. We have a brick fireplace and underneath it is a another brick wall to support it. Brick is heavy.
Remove the fireplace, get the proper supports in place and move on. If you like the fireplace loom get a fake one and something with lighter materials.
Calling insurance over this would be like me calling them because the stairs on my deck were rotten and needed replacing. They don't cover that, if they break and someone falls through they would.
After watching the video I was shocked nobody held the architect, builder and inspectors accountable.
After reading the comments about suing the right party, it almost seems like the couple is trying to squeeze the insurance company instead of having to retain a lawyer to sue the builder and developers and the city who inspected the building of the house. They know who they should be going after after, they're trying to shame Farmers into paying.
They're hosed. Most likely state law has a statute of limitations, almost certainly shorter than 7 years, protecting the builder and engineer from being sued. Generally builders get WAY more protection from state laws than homeowners do. And the insurance policy language is crystal clear. Even if they had waited a month or two for the whole thing to fall down, that wouldn't be "sudden" and probably would mean the claim would be denied. If you don't have the expertise or common sense to see a problem with the plans, it's advisable to hire someone who does to have a look.
Someone wrote it was eight years in Arizona. It's ten years in California.
Don't matter! You can't hide issues like this and expect a ''statute of limitations'' to cover you. Sue the builder and designer, Now!
@@michaelreyes8182 Agreed that's an option. A statute of limitations is law however, so the suit in a court of law would be more difficult. I don't think we know from the report how old the house is. They had it 7 years. They may have bought it from a previous owner.
I was in insurance. It's odd that people don't look at their policies when they're insuring 100's of thousands of dollars. I will say, insurance companies first look at how they can not pay.
I would think that falls back on the builder and inspector when the house was built
WTF-----That is what I was thinking---maybe they were the builders
How interesting they decided to try and get money from the insurance company. Do they not know that the architect, engineer and city inspector are actually at fault?! We need an update on this….
State Farm did not cover our pipe burst in our kitchen. We were covered for “pipe bursts”but because the line ran under a slab in CA they wouldn’t cover. Cost us $26,000 in damages even though first call was to them and claim number filed. Never again!
ok, so no state farm and no farmers
@@lang-ed3bk Two of my friends have had similarly large claims with Allstate and Geico respectively; same runaround. I think *all* insurance companies are like that. In the OP's case, it's clearly some combination of builder/architect/engineer/inspector, and they should ALL be sued, but the OP should also sue the insurance company; let the lawyer negotiate for coverage and then payment. For some reason, insurance companies tend to be less line-in-the-sand with attorneys than with end-customers. It's worth a shot if you can find an attorney to do it on contingency.
I wonder if the previous owners knew about this issue and kept quiet when they sold the house to this couple.
Insurance companies suck that's like having flood insurance and then you experience a flood and they don't cover it it's hard to trust anyone anymore
How are you supposed to file an insurance claim if you’re dead???
What about the construction company who built it?
I would sue the builder and then find a new insurance company that will help if there is a collapse about to happen.
Why isn't anyone looking toward the builder? Or the county that approved substandard building practices?
Go after the builder.
Linda: If I don't have these beams here my house will 90% collapse
Also Linda: It's a collapse, the insurance should pay
No Linda, a collapse is what happens when you don't put those beams up. You chose to call a structural engineer and put the beams up so it isn't your insurance companies problem. If you wanted your insurance to pay for a collapse you should have let it go, called no one and went to "visit relatives" somewhere else until it collapsed then played dumb.
Understand your insurance policy when you take it out, actually read the thing. Know exactly what you're covered for and under what conditions. Don't try to stretch reality.
You’re missing the entire point of this. I see it now - flying right past you!
@@athens31415 No random pseudonym account, I haven't missed anything here. You however may have.
@@tjmarx Spoken like a true ignorant!
@@athens31415 Go away troll
Hope they got it fixed.
Yes hi, I'd like to file a claim. Someone ran into my car and fled.
Ok sir, when did the incident occur?
Um, sometime in the next year or so.
Maybe its collapsing under the weight of her makeup collection
Ya gotta just love a lady like Linda: patient, thorough, not a dummy, and yet the couple are living the nightmare.
This is a maintenance issue.. Im a rebel but it's not the ins. Companys problem. They said the beam was undersized?? Boom the builder is responsible..
... no Ma'am... it isn't a collapse if nothing has collapsed.
Your insurance company listened. They gave you an answer. You just don't like the answer.
Go after the builder or the previous seller that may have known.
Spot on.
Farmers takes care of it then farmers addresses it with the builder. See not complicated but most insurances are worthless.