So RUclips takes 45% , patreon takes 12%, and now Apple takes 30%. Creators get shafted because they are individuals, if there was a time to band together, it would be now.
Apple's 30% cut of patreon payments is much more outrageous compared to RUclips's 45%. I don't really like to bat for Alphabet because their list of sins is rather long - but at the end of the day, hosting and distributing video isn't free, and some youtube's sorta-but-not-really competitors (e.g. vimeo) will charge you, the creator, for the storage space your videos take, as well as for the bandwidth used to transfer your video to your viewers. RUclips doesn't impose that cost on the creator, so youtube taking up 45% of the ad money isn't really unreasonable. RUclips earns that 45% by providing an actual service. Compare that to the Patreon/Apple situation. Patreon is a website. It allows you, the creator, to create a page where people can donate money to you. Maybe upload some exclusive content. It takes 8% (+ payment processor fees and taxes) of the money users pay you to cover costs associated with running a website and delivering content. Fair deal. As smartphones became popular, patreon also made a phone app, because it turns out that people on mobile platforms prefer apps to visiting websites wherever possible. What service does Apple provide? It allows you to install an app that has an almost negligible size and is pretty much a glorified web browser that can only access patreon ... and they want 30% for providing the negligible amount of service, that you cannot opt out if you want your app to run on iOS, because Apple has a monopoly and only allows users to install apps from the App Store. There's an EU-shaped asterisk to that, but DMA directive is currently too sloppily written and Apple can just continue to 🪛🪛🪛everyone around.
@@tamius-hanyes, but i personally feel like apples fee is easily avoidable if you just go to a web browser to pay patreon and then log in on the app. it’s doesn’t make apple look better or anything but it’s a bit better compared to youtube who earn billions every year and basically have a monopoly on the internet creator business
Somehow comparing iTunes to a jukebox instead of a store is very fitting. Because in those old stores, you kinda actually bought the music on its medium. With iTunes you buy a license to listen to it...
Great video, love the end using their awful insensitive and destructive iPad promo. 30% is really unconscionable at this point considering Apples size and revenues, especially when Patreon is akin to a Charitable donation to creators. I thought the music was mixed a little too loud in your first retrospective segment, feel it would better a little lower. Again love your style and video. Glad you are drawing attention to this. I don't know if Patreon company is also making a killing or is blameless.
Lowkey, Patreon should allow Apple to take it off the App Store if they are going to play like that. Might be a good opportunity to set an example, but it’s hard to win against Apple if you go against them in any way. There is no reason Patreon can’t exist as progressive web application independent of the App Store and even run just as well. Steve Job literally introduced PWAs in 2007, then Apple forced the App Store Instead. PWAs make so much sense considering I am holding a computer in the palm of my damn hand. Jobs had so many world changing ideas that could have benefited us greatly. I don’t even like that guy that much, I just really wanted to rant lol! Thanks for making the vid!
The ideal solution: * creators should choose to offload the prices to their patrons * when they do the "subscribe to my patreon" spiel on youtube (or on whichever platform they're after), they should clearly steer people to subscribe using the web browser, and clearly tell: "hey, if you subscribe in patreon app on iPhone, Apple will make your subscription ~43% more expensive¹" Because it's not steering if you do it off-platform and not in the app itself. -- [1] Math note: Yes, if you want Apple users to eat the 30% Apple tax, you need to increase your price more than 30%.
apps are afforded a special place on Apple’s platforms & i imagine the app is a method to gain “real estate” on users’ phones that websites often aren’t given
Your "people paying store to receive music" is not entirely accurate. Labels and stores would take the lions share of money. Artists only received 5% of sales, or less. Books are much the same, you are lucky if you can get 5%. I know taking 30% of sales seems egregious to us now, and that is a positive shift in perspective, but there is no such thing as the "good old days" in this scenario. I think the only way forward is to pay creators directly but keep in mind even payment processors (paypal, credit cards etc) still take a 2% cut, sometimes more. You can send money directly with crypto for fractions of a penny. The crypto space has received a bad wrap, but it is ultimately doing to money what Limewire did for music. That disruption has traditionally been good. Maybe Apple will bring money back into the fold with Apple Money.
yep!! which is why i believe this was inevitable. the interesting thing is that their “take” is lower than a label, so many perceive them as different from labels, for one reason or another
That comparison of the iTunes situation in the early 2000's really helps put things into perspective with this Patreon deal today. Also, this was a very good video. Just subscribed. Right now I'm reading a book about Steve Jobs and his whole story. Reading the book reignited my appreciation for the brand, but looking at where Apple is today... it seems like such a stark contrast. And it seems like Apple is consistently doing things that make me want to ditch them altogether. I'm thinking Linux on a Framework Laptop, and probably a Sony Xperia. Apple makes good products, but I don't know if my values align with them anymore.
thanks for the kind words!! i’m glad the comparison helped. i’m in a similar boat when it comes to the brand. it really feels like the will to safeguard the brand in the way that Steve did is just not as present anymore, which feels deeply sad to me. Disney feels like it’s in a similar spot at the moment.
Patreon then makes less for their service than Apple does, by a LOT. This is a misapplication of their model and they need to re-adjust it. Even taking 30% just from what Patreon makes is rather exorbitant but at least justifiable under the historic model. 30% of the whole enchilada total, for what is effectively "philanthropic donations" is absolutely heinous no matter how you look at it. Instead of 30% for helping the developer sell something, it's 300% for not helping at all, for a philanthropic donation to creators. Apple needs to not only re-evaluate this particular policy but go to some kind of inner meditative soul-searching group that asks itself "How did we become the exact opposite of what we used to stand for--empowering liberal arts?" Pulling out the "crushing creativity" fiasco ad for the iPad, for the Patreon topic, that was very, very clever. So much so that if Patreon picked up that meme, it would force a reversal from Apple.
Jeebus... I am a sick of Apple Bashers ! Consider: If Apple hadn't been dragging the entire innovative culture in consumer digital technology forward, all you whiners would still be using Flip Phones, beepers and Microsoft BoB as your only operating system ...... If you don't like Apple's business practices.....stop buying their products already !!!
I never did. Apple has been a tyrannical company for a while. No device should prevent it's user from unlocking the bootloader and loading their own software, and Apple has always been against this.
If you want ANY company to fundamentally change their "business model", stop using any and ALL of their Products and services....hit APPLE directly in the pocketbook. No one has ever been forced to do business with or purchase ANY Apple product or service. World-wide, Apple has less than 16% of the personal computer and portable device market. That leaves you a choice of Windows/Android companies that have that HUGE 80%+ near-monopoly and market stranglehold. No Developer or Social Media company is required to do business with Apple. If you do not like Apple's business terms...and you have that right... find another venue for your products. It's really that simple. This is AMERICA....stop whining and start your own Hardware, Software, Cloud Services and Streaming Platform company. EXACTLY ZERO PEOPLE ARE STOPPING YOU. Charge what you like, set your own terms...compete directly on price and customer satisfaction against Apple....that's called Capitalism and Free Enterprise.
@@simonmarshall3869 This is AMERICA...so go out and make more money......OUIT BLAMING someone or something else. Go do something...and stop whining about Apple....
@@ailithtwinning6806 Apple started with 2 guys in a family home in California....in the garage...and hand-carried their first product to a local retail Store. Nothing stopped them....what is stopping you? Henry Ford built his prototype car .... in his family home in Detroit...in the garage....during his spare time from his day job.....what is stopping you?
i do think that Apple’s bet is that their product is more attractive than the negative impacts of this decision. it’s hard to compete in the phone space, and they know they are winning in the markets they care most about
@@uncoverage ...and they are winning because they make superior products that engender fierce customer loyalty. I bet if you ask anyone with an iPhone or a MacBook, they will likely tell you that it's just the latest Apple Product they have purchased....repeat customers who intend to replace their current device with another new Apple product. That is the ultimate measure of success and customer satisfaction .... and the BIGGEST reason Apple has the world's largest market capitalization.
So RUclips takes 45% , patreon takes 12%, and now Apple takes 30%. Creators get shafted because they are individuals, if there was a time to band together, it would be now.
It'll just happen again. Patreon was originally created by individuals banding together.
Apple's 30% cut of patreon payments is much more outrageous compared to RUclips's 45%.
I don't really like to bat for Alphabet because their list of sins is rather long - but at the end of the day, hosting and distributing video isn't free, and some youtube's sorta-but-not-really competitors (e.g. vimeo) will charge you, the creator, for the storage space your videos take, as well as for the bandwidth used to transfer your video to your viewers. RUclips doesn't impose that cost on the creator, so youtube taking up 45% of the ad money isn't really unreasonable. RUclips earns that 45% by providing an actual service.
Compare that to the Patreon/Apple situation.
Patreon is a website. It allows you, the creator, to create a page where people can donate money to you. Maybe upload some exclusive content. It takes 8% (+ payment processor fees and taxes) of the money users pay you to cover costs associated with running a website and delivering content. Fair deal. As smartphones became popular, patreon also made a phone app, because it turns out that people on mobile platforms prefer apps to visiting websites wherever possible.
What service does Apple provide? It allows you to install an app that has an almost negligible size and is pretty much a glorified web browser that can only access patreon ... and they want 30% for providing the negligible amount of service, that you cannot opt out if you want your app to run on iOS, because Apple has a monopoly and only allows users to install apps from the App Store. There's an EU-shaped asterisk to that, but DMA directive is currently too sloppily written and Apple can just continue to 🪛🪛🪛everyone around.
@@tamius-hanyes, but i personally feel like apples fee is easily avoidable if you just go to a web browser to pay patreon and then log in on the app. it’s doesn’t make apple look better or anything but it’s a bit better compared to youtube who earn billions every year and basically have a monopoly on the internet creator business
Thanks for another great marriage of Apple history explaining how these forces are playing out in current events.
Somehow comparing iTunes to a jukebox instead of a store is very fitting.
Because in those old stores, you kinda actually bought the music on its medium. With iTunes you buy a license to listen to it...
"On its medium"? What does that mean?
You can export iTunes songs to MP3
Great video, love the end using their awful insensitive and destructive iPad promo. 30% is really unconscionable at this point considering Apples size and revenues, especially when Patreon is akin to a Charitable donation to creators. I thought the music was mixed a little too loud in your first retrospective segment, feel it would better a little lower. Again love your style and video.
Glad you are drawing attention to this. I don't know if Patreon company is also making a killing or is blameless.
thank you! fair, and if you ever trouble hearing, i do my best to add transcripts so you can turn on closed captioning!
You had no reason to rotoscope the people walking in front of your camera... but you did. And that has made all the difference.
Lowkey, Patreon should allow Apple to take it off the App Store if they are going to play like that. Might be a good opportunity to set an example, but it’s hard to win against Apple if you go against them in any way. There is no reason Patreon can’t exist as progressive web application independent of the App Store and even run just as well. Steve Job literally introduced PWAs in 2007, then Apple forced the App Store Instead. PWAs make so much sense considering I am holding a computer in the palm of my damn hand. Jobs had so many world changing ideas that could have benefited us greatly. I don’t even like that guy that much, I just really wanted to rant lol! Thanks for making the vid!
The ideal solution:
* creators should choose to offload the prices to their patrons
* when they do the "subscribe to my patreon" spiel on youtube (or on whichever platform they're after), they should clearly steer people to subscribe using the web browser, and clearly tell: "hey, if you subscribe in patreon app on iPhone, Apple will make your subscription ~43% more expensive¹"
Because it's not steering if you do it off-platform and not in the app itself.
--
[1] Math note: Yes, if you want Apple users to eat the 30% Apple tax, you need to increase your price more than 30%.
love this & agree. creators should make it clear, though it’s a little unfortunate that they’re put in that position.
I LOVE the format of this video, great history overview, great presentation. Subbed!
Same with Substack. It’s such a damn shame.
what happened with substack?
Why does a patreon app even exist anyway? It doesn't have any benefit over the website
apps are afforded a special place on Apple’s platforms & i imagine the app is a method to gain “real estate” on users’ phones that websites often aren’t given
wait what? they after creators money now? wow, apple changed
yeah, it’s such an interesting shift for them, and happens after years of the collision course being set
Always have. You just didn't notice until now
Your "people paying store to receive music" is not entirely accurate. Labels and stores would take the lions share of money. Artists only received 5% of sales, or less. Books are much the same, you are lucky if you can get 5%. I know taking 30% of sales seems egregious to us now, and that is a positive shift in perspective, but there is no such thing as the "good old days" in this scenario. I think the only way forward is to pay creators directly but keep in mind even payment processors (paypal, credit cards etc) still take a 2% cut, sometimes more.
You can send money directly with crypto for fractions of a penny. The crypto space has received a bad wrap, but it is ultimately doing to money what Limewire did for music. That disruption has traditionally been good. Maybe Apple will bring money back into the fold with Apple Money.
I like that you took the time to make all the people walk in front of the graphic lol
glad you enjoyed it :)
Isn't Patreon essentially the Record Label if we compare it to the iTunes model?
yep!! which is why i believe this was inevitable. the interesting thing is that their “take” is lower than a label, so many perceive them as different from labels, for one reason or another
love your videos
thank you! and thanks for watching!
That comparison of the iTunes situation in the early 2000's really helps put things into perspective with this Patreon deal today. Also, this was a very good video. Just subscribed.
Right now I'm reading a book about Steve Jobs and his whole story. Reading the book reignited my appreciation for the brand, but looking at where Apple is today... it seems like such a stark contrast. And it seems like Apple is consistently doing things that make me want to ditch them altogether. I'm thinking Linux on a Framework Laptop, and probably a Sony Xperia. Apple makes good products, but I don't know if my values align with them anymore.
thanks for the kind words!! i’m glad the comparison helped.
i’m in a similar boat when it comes to the brand. it really feels like the will to safeguard the brand in the way that Steve did is just not as present anymore, which feels deeply sad to me. Disney feels like it’s in a similar spot at the moment.
Apple doesn't care about us creators 😢 we literally broke 99% of the time
💔
There was no virtuous cycle in the music industry. Artists have always been exploited.
totally fair
Great video - thanks!
Patreon then makes less for their service than Apple does, by a LOT. This is a misapplication of their model and they need to re-adjust it. Even taking 30% just from what Patreon makes is rather exorbitant but at least justifiable under the historic model. 30% of the whole enchilada total, for what is effectively "philanthropic donations" is absolutely heinous no matter how you look at it.
Instead of 30% for helping the developer sell something, it's 300% for not helping at all, for a philanthropic donation to creators. Apple needs to not only re-evaluate this particular policy but go to some kind of inner meditative soul-searching group that asks itself "How did we become the exact opposite of what we used to stand for--empowering liberal arts?"
Pulling out the "crushing creativity" fiasco ad for the iPad, for the Patreon topic, that was very, very clever. So much so that if Patreon picked up that meme, it would force a reversal from Apple.
Never give a sucker an even break.
ha!
🔥
💸
30 minutes of nothingness. Pure clickbait title. Shame.
what would you have liked to hear ☺️
Hmmm...
👀
Jeebus... I am a sick of Apple Bashers ! Consider: If Apple hadn't been dragging the entire innovative culture in consumer digital technology forward, all you whiners would still be using Flip Phones, beepers and Microsoft BoB as your only operating system ...... If you don't like Apple's business practices.....stop buying their products already !!!
i’d like to introduce you to someone else who to went to Windows Heaven ☁️
I never did. Apple has been a tyrannical company for a while. No device should prevent it's user from unlocking the bootloader and loading their own software, and Apple has always been against this.
Word of advice. Dont dumb down your video using a white board with images. It made me turn this off immediately
Bro, you ok?
idk what it is, but something tells me this dude doesn’t like whiteboards with images
If you want ANY company to fundamentally change their "business model", stop using any and ALL of their Products and services....hit APPLE directly in the pocketbook. No one has ever been forced to do business with or purchase ANY Apple product or service. World-wide, Apple has less than 16% of the personal computer and portable device market. That leaves you a choice of Windows/Android companies that have that HUGE 80%+ near-monopoly and market stranglehold. No Developer or Social Media company is required to do business with Apple. If you do not like Apple's business terms...and you have that right... find another venue for your products. It's really that simple. This is AMERICA....stop whining and start your own Hardware, Software, Cloud Services and Streaming Platform company. EXACTLY ZERO PEOPLE ARE STOPPING YOU. Charge what you like, set your own terms...compete directly on price and customer satisfaction against Apple....that's called Capitalism and Free Enterprise.
Money is stopping you, and the need to pay for access to shelter
@@simonmarshall3869 This is AMERICA...so go out and make more money......OUIT BLAMING someone or something else. Go do something...and stop whining about Apple....
@@ailithtwinning6806 Apple started with 2 guys in a family home in California....in the garage...and hand-carried their first product to a local retail Store. Nothing stopped them....what is stopping you? Henry Ford built his prototype car .... in his family home in Detroit...in the garage....during his spare time from his day job.....what is stopping you?
i do think that Apple’s bet is that their product is more attractive than the negative impacts of this decision. it’s hard to compete in the phone space, and they know they are winning in the markets they care most about
@@uncoverage ...and they are winning because they make superior products that engender fierce customer loyalty. I bet if you ask anyone with an iPhone or a MacBook, they will likely tell you that it's just the latest Apple Product they have purchased....repeat customers who intend to replace their current device with another new Apple product. That is the ultimate measure of success and customer satisfaction .... and the BIGGEST reason Apple has the world's largest market capitalization.