My son died in the April 8th crash. Those kids should not have been on that piece of garbage as it clearly was not ready for passengers. We have been forced to live our lives in grief without the incredible young man who blessed our lives with his. He was handed back to us In charred pieces. Let those who think it is so great put their kids on board.
@davethreshold • I sobbed through the whole thing. It just solidified my belief that my so and his Marine brothers were nothing more than guinea pigs. My son was so excited to become a Marine. It breaks my heart still.
Only the US Marines can accept attrition like that and keep on flying the same Marine killing machine. Its in the culture to take unreasonable risk. Its not going to be used as a VIP transport. I knew a Marine pilot who resigned upon learning he had to transition to the Osprey. He came from a long line of steel industry leaders steeped in a mounting safety culture and the recklessness shocked him.
@@notbrettt not enough to fly the president tho.. of they not willing to fly the president in one then I ain't flying either. They can't even auto rotate to a safe landing if they lose both engines
@@gravestone9831 "not enough to fly the president tho.."(sic) Due to the fact that the V-22 is not equipped with the same required communication suite as the VH-3D and VH-60N. "They can't even auto rotate to a safe landing if they lose both engines"(sic) Most autorotation attempts in all rotary winged platforms result in Class A mishaps.
Time to admit it might be an inherently flawed design. There's a reason why a helicopter has its engine or engines mounted along the axis of the fuselage.
The crash in Arizona, April 2000 was proved NOT to be pilot error, after a long investigation! The Second crash in 2000 occurred in Jacksonville N.C. and killed 4 Marines-cause mechanical failure. Please get your facts correct if you report these incidents. Enough families carry the soul wounds from these incidents that never heal. You dishonor the fallen by false and omitted reporting.
"The crash in Arizona, April 2000 was proved NOT to be pilot error, after a long investigation!"(sic) Incorrect. Only if you believe the revisionist history of Bob Work and Walter Jones, et al. The AMB found that Brow and Gruber made several crucial errors that resulted in the crash of their MV-22. The fact remains that the results would have been the same that night in Marana had they flown any other rotary winged platform in the same reckless manner. "The Second crash in 2000 occurred in Jacksonville N.C. and killed 4 Marines-cause mechanical failure."(sic) Hydraulic failure with aircrew error as a contributing factor. Repeated reset of the FCS - in violation of NATOPS - exacerbated the hydraulic failure and led to the crash near New River.
Again, Connie Gruber fought a years long battle to clear her husband's name and was successful ! And 12/11 Jackso ville crash caused by faulty design routing of primary hydraulic line ahead of redundancy systems causing mass hydraulic failure due to vibration on titanium tubing. (Brittle). Coupled with faulty code in main programing for reset. So you can say mechanical over hydraulic failure with code errors. These issues were corrected over the 2 year redesign. Votex ring state in Arizona was known issue but never sufficiently tested by manufacturers, b4 being delivered to marine Corps for opeval
@@lonchaney7547 "Again, Connie Gruber fought a years long battle to clear her husband's name and was successful ! "(sic) Successful only to those who willfully reject the findings of the JAG investigation and the AMB. The saddest aspect of the entire mishap at Marana is that Brooks Gruber was an experienced CH-53 pilot with hundreds, if not thousands, of hours of rotary winged time in comparison to former KC-130 pilot John Brow, PIC of Nighthawk 72, who had accumulated ~50 hours of rotary time before transitioning to the V-22. Gruber was well aware of the 800/40 rule and should have taken control of the aircraft when Brow began descending at over 3900 FPM. As the JAG report - Lt. Col. Morgan letter 5830, B 0525, July 21, 2000 - concluded: "The mishap aircraft’s flight profile in the terminal area (high descent rate/low airspeed) most likely resulted in the aircraft experiencing a vortex ring state (power settling) and/or blade stall condition, which resulted in departure from controlled flight and the subsequent mishap." and "Nighthawk 71’s (Flight Lead) poor crew coordination and situational awareness were contributing factors to the mishap." "And 12/11 Jackso ville crash caused by faulty design routing of primary hydraulic line ahead of redundancy systems causing mass hydraulic failure due to vibration on titanium tubing. (Brittle). Coupled with faulty code in main programing for reset. So you can say mechanical over hydraulic failure with code errors. These issues were corrected over the 2 year redesign." The December 2000 New River crash investigation concluded: "The factors involved in the mishap include both a hydraulic line failure and a flight-control-system software anomaly that was introduced when the pilot repeatedly reset the flight control system." Attempting to reset the FCS eight times - contraindicated by NATOPS - sealed the fate of that flight. Other V-22s had experienced in flight hydraulic failures without loss of the aircraft due to the fact that those pilots landed the aircraft immediately when the FCS could not be reset after one attempt. "Votex ring state in Arizona was known issue but never sufficiently tested by manufacturers, b4 being delivered to marine Corps for opeval_(sic) Vortex Ring State can be experienced by any rotary wing platform and is not unique to the V-22 or its design. When encountered, recovery from VRS in the V-22 is achieved much quicker than in traditional rotary wing platforms as HROD testing confirmed. V-22 HIGH RATE OF DESCENT (HROD) TEST PROCEDURES AND LONG RECORD ANALYSIS "In August 2003, the V-22 Integrated Test Team completed a thorough investigation of the V-22’s low-speed / HROD flight characteristics. Testing defined an operational envelope for the aircraft and demonstrated flight regimes free from vortex ring state (VRS). Tests also probed deeply into fully developed VRS to determine precise flight conditions where it may be encountered, and to confirm the ability of the V-22 to recover from the condition. The ability to tilt the nacelles proved to be a powerful and (in every case) reliable means for rapidly regaining aerodynamic function of the rotors, even when operating in VRS beyond the point of having sufficient controllability. Results for steady-state HROD conditions are presented and the methods for testing are described. In an operational sense, the test results show that the V-22 has a significantly higher rate of descent margin for avoiding VRS with respect to the published NATOPS limitation than conventional low disk-loading helicopters. Furthermore, dynamic maneuver testing of the V-22 showed that VRS cannot be initiated outside the steadystate VRS boundary. Simple engineering analysis is used to show that the V-22’s steady-state VRS boundary is predictable by simple methods that work for conventional helicopters. High blade twist, and the side-by-side rotor configuration of the V-22 do not play a significant role in defining the VRS boundary." Bottom line, fly the aircraft by the numbers and you'll be fine barring a serious mechanical malfunction. When a mechanical malfunction occurs fly the aircraft in accordance with NATOPS.
I had to bury what was left of my son after the April 8, 2000 crash. He was training in a water assault unit and they were pulled from that because they needed guinea pigs for their precious air craft, not only killing them but destroying the lives of those left behind to grieve. The other Osprey that night had a hard landing and skidded to the end of the landing runway and ended up in a ravine. I have spoken with some of the parents over the years and they said their kids have never been the same. The Osprey means nothing more to me than death and destruction. If those in charge think it’s so great then let your own family members be the guinea pigs.
@marinemom351 mom we live with your pain every day. Our son was supposed to be on that flight as a crew chief, except for a paper work mix up on his orders. He elected to stay with the program to honor the marines lost. He survived until December 11, 2000 and was a crew chief on the flight lost outside Jacksonville, NC. Our second son named his first born after him-Jason. This is a soul wound that scabs over, but will never heal! May God bless you and all the Marines lost in service over all the years
They have no idea yet as to why it crashed, and the guy says they need to learn to fly it, then the lady says a large percentage of aviation crashes are due to human error. Sounds like a its a bad aircraft and the government doesn't want to admit it.
Anyone remember how the De Havilland Comet used to break in mid flight?.....pilot error?.....was design error. Here with the Osprey I believe is the same issue (design error). You can not play with the angle of attack of any aircraft, tilting it, would increase the chance of a stall. Is time to ground the Osprey forever.
As an old school engineer, 5 minutes into the video I could already tell what went wrong. The same problem with many things nowadays. The design team did not follow KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. This thing may be ok for a toy model or a drone but it is WAY WAY to over complex to haul human life. The chances of something failing are just too great and when any one thing fails........ the whole thing comes crashing down. This abomination should be grounded, permanently. All of you in favor of keeping this thing need to ask yourself a simple question? Would you like to see your son or daughter on this thing? Its pretty easy to have a favorable view when you don't have any skin in the game or are making money off the deal (politicians).
It's fast and quiet during a flyby. I was sailing in Pensacola Bay with a buddy who came along as a passenger. An Air Force Osprey approached and I saw it coming right towards us. My friend had his back turned and didn't have a clue until it passed over us on it's way to Pensacola NAS. My buddy's eyes popped out. I laughed so hard. A few years later, my own son flew as a passenger on one as a Marine in Yuma. He loved it and raved for weeks about it. I am a pilot. I would rather die in an Osprey than a Boeing any day of the week!
*AND DIE YOU WILL IN AN OSPREY. ONE YEAR LATER 8/27/2023. OSPREY CRASHES AGAIN KILLING 3 MORE MARINES AND SERIOUS INJURING 5. WHEN WILL USA ABANDON THIS DEATH MACHINE*
Read part of the realised accident investigation. Retired Naval Officer, Aviator, with Maintenance Test Flight and Quality Assurance experience. The crew were a link in the crash of the V22. They did not land as fast as they should have. They should have landed on a road or a beach and not tried to get to an airfield. They had multiple "chip Lights" I have had this happen to me, but not in a V22. It is not that uncommon to have a chip light in the helicopter, community.
There was just another one in Australia. 3 Killed these things are death traps and many more will die when the navy replaces the C2 Greyhound with the Osprey.
Human error! Is always the issue with the osprey’s. It’s the first vehicle of its kind. Sadly this is the only way we will learn from the mistakes. Our maintenance and flying procedures are literally written in blood.
People ,Still Not understanding whats wrong with Osprey ,; Yaw ,control, Not sufficient ! Need ducts to either side of tail boom ,so can control Left / right ,Twist ! pronably need another small engine in boom , Yes ,more weight !
So no one seem to know about the issues of why these aircraft are crashing? If it’s a human error then someone should be held accountable. Happen many times already fix the issue or ground these aircraft. I wouldn’t want to fly or be in one if I was the marine. Government are playing with their lives.
Humans can't even perfect an airplane/helicopter thingy! How in the h3** are we supposed to visit other planets? We can't even perfect flying on this one. RIP for all those who have perished on this aircraft.
They fly like an airplane, land like a rock. Good job Trump. The Chinese don't have to go to war to kill our military, just let us train ourselves to death.
Your blaming Trump for a crash of an aircraft that occurred while Biden was in office? It was developed in the 90s so Trump had no role during development nor the crash that just occurred. How is he at fault?
When I see one in the air, I always run for cover.
Human error, the error was boarding the aircraft.
US always downplays the failure of Osprey, as a Design.
The design isn't a failure despite the uninformed wail of neophytes like yourself.
It might be time to retire the Osprey, this happens too often
My son died in the April 8th crash. Those kids should not have been on that piece of garbage as it clearly was not ready for passengers. We have been forced to live our lives in grief without the incredible young man who blessed our lives with his. He was handed back to us In charred pieces. Let those who think it is so great put their kids on board.
So sorry. And another one crashed yesterday killing three.
Osprey aircraft, 51 Dead and counting, Sorry for your loss.
Any idea how many total fatalities in Sikorsky H-60 crashes?
Years ago, 60 Minutes did a report saying this was UNSAFE. They were right. This plane when compared to others is a death trap.
@davethreshold • I sobbed through the whole thing. It just solidified my belief that my so and his Marine brothers were nothing more than guinea pigs. My son was so excited to become a Marine. It breaks my heart still.
@@marinemom351 I am so sorry to read this. I thank him and you for fighting the good fight. May he continue to protect the Angels.❤💔
Only the US Marines can accept attrition like that and keep on flying the same Marine killing machine. Its in the culture to take unreasonable risk. Its not going to be used as a VIP transport. I knew a Marine pilot who resigned upon learning he had to transition to the Osprey. He came from a long line of steel industry leaders steeped in a mounting safety culture and the recklessness shocked him.
I’ve seen it used as VIP transport first hand lol
@@notbrettt not enough to fly the president tho.. of they not willing to fly the president in one then I ain't flying either. They can't even auto rotate to a safe landing if they lose both engines
@@gravestone9831 "not enough to fly the president tho.."(sic)
Due to the fact that the V-22 is not equipped with the same required communication suite as the VH-3D and VH-60N.
"They can't even auto rotate to a safe landing if they lose both engines"(sic)
Most autorotation attempts in all rotary winged platforms result in Class A mishaps.
Actually there is a whole wing of V-22’s dedicated to VIP movement.
I agree. If the president cannot fly in it, I won’t.
Time to admit it might be an inherently flawed design.
There's a reason why a helicopter has its engine or engines mounted along the axis of the fuselage.
Poster child for Arrogant Design
The crash in Arizona, April 2000 was proved NOT to be pilot error, after a long investigation! The Second crash in 2000 occurred in Jacksonville N.C. and killed 4 Marines-cause mechanical failure. Please get your facts correct if you report these incidents. Enough families carry the soul wounds from these incidents that never heal. You dishonor the fallen by false and omitted reporting.
"The crash in Arizona, April 2000 was proved NOT to be pilot error, after a long investigation!"(sic)
Incorrect. Only if you believe the revisionist history of Bob Work and Walter Jones, et al. The AMB found that Brow and Gruber made several crucial errors that resulted in the crash of their MV-22. The fact remains that the results would have been the same that night in Marana had they flown any other rotary winged platform in the same reckless manner.
"The Second crash in 2000 occurred in Jacksonville N.C. and killed 4 Marines-cause mechanical failure."(sic)
Hydraulic failure with aircrew error as a contributing factor. Repeated reset of the FCS - in violation of NATOPS - exacerbated the hydraulic failure and led to the crash near New River.
Again, Connie Gruber fought a years long battle to clear her husband's name and was successful ! And 12/11 Jackso ville crash caused by faulty design routing of primary hydraulic line ahead of redundancy systems causing mass hydraulic failure due to vibration on titanium tubing. (Brittle). Coupled with faulty code in main programing for reset. So you can say mechanical over hydraulic failure with code errors. These issues were corrected over the 2 year redesign. Votex ring state in Arizona was known issue but never sufficiently tested by manufacturers, b4 being delivered to marine Corps for opeval
@@lonchaney7547 "Again, Connie Gruber fought a years long battle to clear her husband's name and was successful ! "(sic)
Successful only to those who willfully reject the findings of the JAG investigation and the AMB. The saddest aspect of the entire mishap at Marana is that Brooks Gruber was an experienced CH-53 pilot with hundreds, if not thousands, of hours of rotary winged time in comparison to former KC-130 pilot John Brow, PIC of Nighthawk 72, who had accumulated ~50 hours of rotary time before transitioning to the V-22. Gruber was well aware of the 800/40 rule and should have taken control of the aircraft when Brow began descending at over 3900 FPM. As the JAG report - Lt. Col. Morgan letter 5830, B 0525, July 21, 2000 - concluded:
"The mishap aircraft’s flight profile in the terminal area (high descent rate/low airspeed) most likely resulted in the aircraft experiencing a vortex ring state
(power settling) and/or blade stall condition, which resulted in departure from controlled flight and the subsequent mishap."
and
"Nighthawk 71’s (Flight Lead) poor crew coordination and situational awareness were contributing factors to the mishap."
"And 12/11 Jackso ville crash caused by faulty design routing of primary hydraulic line ahead of redundancy systems causing mass hydraulic failure due to vibration on titanium tubing. (Brittle). Coupled with faulty code in main programing for reset. So you can say mechanical over hydraulic failure with code errors. These issues were corrected over the 2 year redesign."
The December 2000 New River crash investigation concluded:
"The factors involved in the mishap include both a hydraulic line failure and a flight-control-system software anomaly that was introduced when the pilot repeatedly reset the flight control system."
Attempting to reset the FCS eight times - contraindicated by NATOPS - sealed the fate of that flight. Other V-22s had experienced in flight hydraulic failures without loss of the aircraft due to the fact that those pilots landed the aircraft immediately when the FCS could not be reset after one attempt.
"Votex ring state in Arizona was known issue but never sufficiently tested by manufacturers, b4 being delivered to marine Corps for opeval_(sic)
Vortex Ring State can be experienced by any rotary wing platform and is not unique to the V-22 or its design. When encountered, recovery from VRS in the V-22 is achieved much quicker than in traditional rotary wing platforms as HROD testing confirmed.
V-22 HIGH RATE OF DESCENT (HROD) TEST PROCEDURES AND LONG RECORD ANALYSIS
"In August 2003, the V-22 Integrated Test Team completed a thorough investigation of the V-22’s low-speed / HROD flight characteristics. Testing defined an operational envelope for the aircraft and demonstrated flight regimes free from vortex ring state (VRS). Tests also probed deeply into fully developed VRS to determine precise flight conditions where it may be encountered, and to confirm the ability of the V-22 to recover from the condition. The ability to tilt the nacelles proved to be a powerful and (in every case) reliable means for rapidly regaining aerodynamic function of the rotors, even when operating in VRS beyond the point of having sufficient controllability. Results for steady-state HROD conditions are presented and the methods for testing are described. In an operational sense, the test results show that the V-22 has a significantly higher rate of descent margin for avoiding VRS with respect to the published NATOPS limitation than conventional low disk-loading helicopters. Furthermore, dynamic maneuver testing of the V-22 showed that VRS cannot be initiated outside the steadystate VRS boundary. Simple engineering analysis is used to show that the V-22’s steady-state VRS boundary is predictable by simple methods that work for conventional helicopters. High blade twist, and the side-by-side rotor configuration of the V-22 do not play a significant role in defining the VRS boundary."
Bottom line, fly the aircraft by the numbers and you'll be fine barring a serious mechanical malfunction. When a mechanical malfunction occurs fly the aircraft in accordance with NATOPS.
I had to bury what was left of my son after the April 8, 2000 crash. He was training in a water assault unit and they were pulled from that because they needed guinea pigs for their precious air craft, not only killing them but destroying the lives of those left behind to grieve. The other Osprey that night had a hard landing and skidded to the end of the landing runway and ended up in a ravine. I have spoken with some of the parents over the years and they said their kids have never been the same. The Osprey means nothing more to me than death and destruction. If those in charge think it’s so great then let your own family members be the guinea pigs.
@marinemom351 mom we live with your pain every day. Our son was supposed to be on that flight as a crew chief, except for a paper work mix up on his orders. He elected to stay with the program to honor the marines lost. He survived until December 11, 2000 and was a crew chief on the flight lost outside Jacksonville, NC. Our second son named his first born after him-Jason. This is a soul wound that scabs over, but will never heal! May God bless you and all the Marines lost in service over all the years
They have no idea yet as to why it crashed, and the guy says they need to learn to fly it, then the lady says a large percentage of aviation crashes are due to human error. Sounds like a its a bad aircraft and the government doesn't want to admit it.
Are you stupid?
"Sounds like a its a bad aircraft and the government doesn't want to admit it."(sic)
What's the Class A mishap rate for the V-22?
Anyone remember how the De Havilland Comet used to break in mid flight?.....pilot error?.....was design error. Here with the Osprey I believe is the same issue (design error). You can not play with the angle of attack of any aircraft, tilting it, would increase the chance of a stall. Is time to ground the Osprey forever.
That makes absolutely no sense at all. You obviously don’t know what your talking about.
@@j.muckafignotti4226 even a 10 years old boy know changing the angle of attack in an airfoil, would cause stall....
@@j.muckafignotti4226you don’t know what you are talking about.
@@parrotsarnoso1099exactly.
There is something wrong with this aircraft. Too many crashes.
As an old school engineer, 5 minutes into the video I could already tell what went wrong. The same problem with many things nowadays. The design team did not follow KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid.
This thing may be ok for a toy model or a drone but it is WAY WAY to over complex to haul human life. The chances of something failing are just too great and when any one thing fails........ the whole thing comes crashing down.
This abomination should be grounded, permanently.
All of you in favor of keeping this thing need to ask yourself a simple question? Would you like to see your son or daughter on this thing?
Its pretty easy to have a favorable view when you don't have any skin in the game or are making money off the deal (politicians).
It's fast and quiet during a flyby. I was sailing in Pensacola Bay with a buddy who came along as a passenger. An Air Force Osprey approached and I saw it coming right towards us. My friend had his back turned and didn't have a clue until it passed over us on it's way to Pensacola NAS. My buddy's eyes popped out. I laughed so hard. A few years later, my own son flew as a passenger on one as a Marine in Yuma. He loved it and raved for weeks about it. I am a pilot. I would rather die in an Osprey than a Boeing any day of the week!
“I’d rather die in a sports car than a truck”
…Ok
*AND DIE YOU WILL IN AN OSPREY. ONE YEAR LATER 8/27/2023. OSPREY CRASHES AGAIN KILLING 3 MORE MARINES AND SERIOUS INJURING 5. WHEN WILL USA ABANDON THIS DEATH MACHINE*
Isn’t osprey made by Boeing in Ridley park? Lmao
I'd rather fly 100 flights on a Boeing 747 Max with MCAS than 1 flight on the Osprey!
Read part of the realised accident investigation. Retired Naval Officer, Aviator, with Maintenance Test Flight and Quality Assurance experience. The crew were a link in the crash of the V22. They did not land as fast as they should have. They should have landed on a road or a beach and not tried to get to an airfield. They had multiple "chip Lights" I have had this happen to me, but not in a V22. It is not that uncommon to have a chip light in the helicopter, community.
There was just another one in Australia. 3 Killed these things are death traps and many more will die when the navy replaces the C2 Greyhound with the Osprey.
And another one yesterday
@@jimb3093 Good lord, and the Army wants to replace black hawks with tilt rotors.
Another eight service members just killed on Osprey off Japan
There's a Presidential Osprey.
I'll leave it at that.
This thing crashes all the time …
bad design
Human error! Is always the issue with the osprey’s. It’s the first vehicle of its kind. Sadly this is the only way we will learn from the mistakes. Our maintenance and flying procedures are literally written in blood.
Human error? BULL The aircraft does not work.
Not human error ,Design Flaw
if it’s a safe aircraft , can they use it as Marine 1 for LJB?
of course marines like it they look cool but marines also like eating crayons
Looks like the wings are to big
The news anchor looks like cher
sad , very sad
People ,Still Not understanding whats wrong with Osprey ,; Yaw ,control, Not sufficient ! Need ducts to either side of tail boom ,so can control Left / right ,Twist ! pronably need another small engine in boom , Yes ,more weight !
Reminds me of that episode of love death and robots with aircraft 13
Australia another crash
Join in the retreat yes 😓😓😓😓
RIP 😓😓
So no one seem to know about the issues of why these aircraft are crashing? If it’s a human error then someone should be held accountable. Happen many times already fix the issue or ground these aircraft. I wouldn’t want to fly or be in one if I was the marine. Government are playing with their lives.
Death traps
Humans can't even perfect an airplane/helicopter thingy! How in the h3** are we supposed to visit other planets? We can't even perfect flying on this one. RIP for all those who have perished on this aircraft.
Because they didn't let elon build it. That's why it crashes.
To all of the Osprey naysayers, there have been over 160 UH-60 Blackhawk mishaps. I'm not going to include the number of deaths out of respect.
They fly like an airplane, land like a rock. Good job Trump. The Chinese don't have to go to war to kill our military, just let us train ourselves to death.
pogue
Your blaming Trump for a crash of an aircraft that occurred while Biden was in office? It was developed in the 90s so Trump had no role during development nor the crash that just occurred. How is he at fault?
Oh shut up.
Has nothing to do with trump cuck
RIP Joe Biden