Street Fighter Cheating Is A Problem
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- Опубликовано: 19 окт 2023
- Cheating is a problem in Street Fighter 6.... let's discuss why
Edited by Caste - / castehappy | Twitter: / castehappy
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#Sf6 #cheating #Diaphone 
Игры
One thing I want to preempt in the comments. Your odds of running into a cheater are still pretty low.. Unlike chess where you can just boot up a free engine on a separate device, there's no readily accessible way to cheat in SF6. You either need to pay $$$ or make your own. Cheaters aren't the reason you haven't hit master rank yet, trust.
Yeah, especially because a cheater would not stay on a low rank for too long, this will be a problem in high master i guess
It's not really that common in online chess either, there is good detection for obvious cheating.
And it is only really and issue at higher elo where the cheaters know when and how to cheat much better.
Im sure that Ken on plat 2 was cheating man i swear, they are keeping me down
@@memegazer Agreed it's uncommon to play vs a cheater in chess, mostly because detection for catching cheaters has gotten quite good as well. Googling it, chess.com bans 800 accounts per day for cheating lol, kinda insane
@@Diaphone
Yeah...but at the higher levels just having an eval bar can provide a significant advantage to skilled player and make or break that game.
So in that respect somebody that knows what they are doing can avoid detection better than a scrub that is cheating.
I'm a software engineer and I've been looking for a new side project. I'm gonna write a program that analyzes inputs to determine if someone is a cheater. This could end up being a huge problem for online cash prize tournaments. If you set those modifiers to appear human it could conceivably be undetectable without some sort of computer analysis.
best of luck, sounds like a fun project
One of the things that stuck out about Hans in the chess scandal was his overall performance was an outlier compared to others in their career.
While that is not definitive, Hans in particular has a stastically significant amount of variation in the leval of his performance overall compared to other chess pros.
Are you gonna open source it? I'd love to see the code once it's done
That's basically already written - it's the cheat's they're using. Just buy the cheat and reverse engineer it. But, ironically, if you open source that, it'll be used as an open source cheat haha
@@memegazer it also doesn't help that he admitted to online cheating a couple of times back then..
That gief didn't parry a single feint projectile, even up close. Continued holding forward even. Definitely a cheat
That's the one thing that sold me. You can't perfectly read every feint with that much confidence.
@@loopygordo😢opj
He is not cheating, its not impossible to react that fast or to anticipate. Specially when you know your opponent's gameplan either because you know him or you know vow his character is played. Nothing that gief did was impossible to do while playing normally
@@marcunbut1058 definitely a cheater, no human can be that consistent, even if technically it's possible to react to feint ghost or air SPD the tp, it's impossible to be that consistent at doing it.
@marcunbut1058 yea dude really? I don't know how long you've been playing but I've legit never seen anyone come close to doing something like that against jp. That shit ain't normal.
Banning cheaters in free to play games with millions of players is a waste of time and energy, but banning cheaters in a $70 game played only by a few tens of thousand players is both way easier to do, and effective.
you can just familyshare the game to a different account
@@beatresca still not nearly as bad as a f2p game, family share has a cap of how many can be shared to at once, its still more work to bypass
SF6 is not free to play.
he wasnt saying that @@damienwarlock
@@damienwarlock I think your software needs a reading comprehension update
you likely saw brian's video on this subject and i think youre validating a lot of the concerns he had back then: that the nature of these cheats makes them very difficult to confirm definitively. the fact that they auto-input for you while you play makes it look like sometimes youre cracked and sometimes youre not, and it's impossible to check for these without them attending an offline
and the fact that you and other content creators are watching a replay and saying out loud to viewers "i dont know if this is cheating but it's sus" just adds to the general feeling of distrust that can and will grow as these things become more common
great vid as usual
Similar thing happens in a game called Dead by Daylight. Cheaters have changed from using obvious ones where they fly around or run at super speed, now your average cheater does something extremely subtle and practically invisible like *they move 3% faster,* but in the long run makes a difference. Sometimes you're just losing to a cheater and it's so subtle you just blame yourself because they have cheat macros where whenever the killer player does not have line of sight on them, their movement speed increases. "That person who just ran around the corner was probably just a bit further than I thought" you tell yourself, just like that person who seems to be reacting frame perfectly to you in SF6 might just be getting lucky.
Absolutely it'll continue to be a problem. Cheaters make legitimate players lose interest in any game. For the health of the player base and community interest in the game, Capcom needs to figure out how to eliminate cheating.
They don't give a s***.
they care. they want and need sales.@@megac4
seeing mago and itazan playing the game normally and going toe to toe with someone using auto block and auto confirms really makes you appreciate how good the top players are.
what if they are just using cheats too ;o
@@gameclips5734 They arent though. I watched itazan and mago play SF for 15+ years back in sf 4. They didnt have cheats like that on consoles, and they were just as good back then. So they arent cheating. People that play in real life cant cheat they have to actually be good.
@@wildwest1832they definitely can cheat, it’s a never ending game of cat and mouse. It’s just a matter of how far you want to go with it. I don’t think any top players cheat though tbh.
@@HellCat_Kenny Obviously they physically can cheat. The question is why would they? There's no incentive for them to cheat when they play irl tournament.
Just from observing lightspeed, those whiff punishes were beyond anything ive ever seen Punk do without proper conditioning.
depends how often they happen, just because someone whiff punished doesn't mean it was a reaction
@@gameclips5734 True, But from watching a lot of tournaments, You would rather respect the drive rush and just sit at neutral then go for a risky whiff punish on an extended button, obviously depends on the character but still DI is damn near un-reactable
The punishes and crazy confirms are not really that sus tbh. They could simply be someone who doesn't know or doesn't respect the meta and therefore will do ultra "risky" shit with massive payoffs because they haven't been peer pressured into being afraid to. We've had people who did stuff the pros didn't dare to before.
Consistent perfect down-backs without touching neutral and never parrying on whiffs is way more telling.
That imput reading of that Cammy in Japan was too perfect for a normal player, so the cheese is detected.
I really hope the Capcom Cup is regulated in some way to prevent anybody from cheating. Its often the most talented who can get away with cheating the most.
They should make all the competitors submit a video recording of their hands on the controller/stick for each match.
isnt it live on-stage? You need a modded system at home to use these
SpaceUSA🗣🕋😩‼️🇮🇪
@chibinya There's online qualifiers and events I believe. Also, PC is still a thing. It's not like Capcom will hold tourneys only on console.
@@djhero0071 i thought all Capcom official tournaments were on PS5... If not, couldn't they just make it on consoles to avoid cheaters?
I’m glad people are bringing this to attention
Yes.
Fchamp did a section on his stream about it. He mentioned the bots are weak to anti-airing (Likely for some technical reason) so he mows over them with Dhalsim all the time. IIRC, Vermillion Bird (China Flag) was the most recent cheater he ran into.
Yeah, saw that vid and he mentioned Lightspeed as well, including how Capcom reset their MR back to 1500.
If DSP sees this he will be making this his new excuse for losing
Man, he's already crying cheaters lol. THat's why he turned cross play off and still got bodied.
Dude's been using the cheater excuse since his days of getting bodied in SF4 lol
@@TheIcarusFallsfucking pc cheaters dood 😂
He can only make excuses since he sucks at the game and is trying to save his ego from some competition he did decades ago, that nobody showed up to.
A high level player using these cheats in an online tournament would be extremely hard to catch.
Especially if u can toggle auto block
The DI at 2:52 was held for 30 frames. All the ones he did before were liek 5-7 frames, which is WAY shorter than I would expect someone to hold the buttons for. I think that 30 frame DI was legit, the others were cheats.
The hitbox comment: per CPT rules you cannot play on hitbox with SOCD off. You need to have it set to SOCD neutral.
Ahh yea I get the two mixed up lol
I though SOCD off was allowed because the game itself interprets SOCD neutral if received.
@@TheBlueArcher That sounds true, I believe it. But it's not obligatory, you can have your own SOCD cleaner as most buttonboxes do.
The problem with this type of cheats is that whatever you use to detect them, it can be improved/fixed in the next version of the cheat. To name a few: they can add a neutral input in between, random delays, random percentages so they are not 100% success but rather something more believable. The only real fix to this is anti-cheat software (which the FGC has zero experience about) and moving the competitive ecosystem back to mostly offline (which I would love for other reasons).
I'm curious which anti cheat softwares you know of that are 100% effective if you know of any.
@@Sumatchi Nothing in life is absolute other than death and taxes... You're never aiming for 100% effectiveness, that doesn't mean you shouldn't still try...
I'm pretty sure I've played that zangief cheater before, i was suspicious of his gameplay because he was throw teching EVERY time correctly while not falling for a single shimmy and also countering all my DI, but he wasn't anti-airing properly nor doing anything else quite as optimally, so i decided to test him and threw a few random DI on neutral and he "reacted" to all of them by frame 6...
This one time in ranked I ran into a 'Sim player who managed to break EVERY SINGLE THROW ATTEMPT from me over the course of the entire set. I was playing Cammy, whose throw loops and mixups are simply impossible to predict with 100% accuracy, but this guy was doing it. I reached a point in the matches where I was mixing in throws at the weirdest times I could think of, but it didn't matter. In retrospect, I think he was either abusing an exploit, or running a script.
EDIT: Ugh, cue the "git gud" crowd. Never change, FGC.
No he wasn’t you were just being predictable
There was a glitch that would auto-tech throws for you for a while earlier this year, they may have just been exploiting that
I mean, that’s tough to call considering that I myself notice that Cammy players LOOVE throws, so whenever I’m in a mixup situation that’s the first thing I’m looking for and usually end up teching most of them. The only throw from them I get hit by a lot is the flip grab.
what rank are you
like i can tech 100% of throws against worse players because they either don't shimmy or do it very obviously in a way that doesn't fuck with delay tech
google "Delayed Tech"
There was just straight up macro programs publicly available for games like nicktoons that were endorsed by the developers to be used in online play to cheat. I was dog piled and mocked out of the community for calling it cheating 😂 the reality now is just unfortunately that we can’t have serious competition over the internet anymore.
You could never have serious competition over the internet, there's too much lag and delay.
@@redmoogle I mean, I have good internet. The internet is a wonderful thing.
This is pretty legitimately concerning to me, especially as someone who plays primarily on PC and already has had to deal with this in other games. If Capcom doesn't step in somehow it will get worse over time. It's also too hard to detect in a fighting game because there's many really small but significant interactions that you can influence.
Very concerning, but I am sure Capcom is getting wind of it now.
Yet you have no issue with Modern and even Classic being lenient enough for barely competent players getting wins they'd never even dream of getting in pre-SF5
@zerstreubar Doesn't matter what you think. SF6 has shown SF have no standards.
@Agent_A-Grahm
I too feel that modern controls was a terrible idea.
Only dirty jam eating scrubs use modern.
Block player, carry on with your day - it's that simple lmao
So what I don't understand is what is Denuvo doing if people can still cheat? I thought that was the purpose of implementing that.
There's a big difference in how a lot of these cheat clients work vs how anti-cheats work. Alot of anti-cheats are looking for code injections, while these look like they're reading data and taking use of your controller, which would emulate human interaction. It's harder to detect this stuff than people realize.
@@AdvPanda0maybe the one valorant uses could detect it, but people hated the fact it went into the root of your pc.
But, tbf, in hundreds of hours of valo, i only saw one cheater and the match got ended in round 3 with the message "cheater detected", so I guess it rly works well.
It was mostly an anti piracy measure rather than an anti cheat measure. Even though denuvo only keeps a game Uncracked for a week or 2 lmao
@@AdvPanda0 Wow. I didn't know it got that in depth. Hopefully Capcom can implement something to prevent more widespread use of this. Thanks for the info though!
@@Shodan130it’s been taking a lot longer for certain games I still think SF6 hasn’t been cracked yet
not all the cheats can be found by looking at impossible reaction times, I see you spend considerable time on that. Many of those can be luck and there's a big spectrum there, a good player can do great prediction and benefit from a little luck or sometime it can be sheer dumb luck. I think some other things are more telling like, obviously, consistency of such "luck", as you pointed out, or those things like not doing parries against fake fireballs, which looked very obvious to me.
What an incredible opening line for a video. Had to take a moment to pause and replay just to truly grasp what had been said. Fantastic script.
To my understanding: Capcom determined Lightspeed was cheating and reverted their MR back to 1500. I don't know how reputable the source of this information is but...allegedly.
careful, all the scrubs will blame cheating every time they lose
Haha yea - I just pinned a comment to preempt this
They will be thankfull for such content like these exist to make them feel better being themselves despite all the odds.
Facts I don't consider my self elite but I noticed fighting game players love to blame their losses on everything but their skill level LMAO
One problem this creates though, that other people have mentioned, is that if something LOOKS too good to someone (even if it isn't), they'll have to wonder whether it might have actually been cheating, and that's frustrating to have to worry about.
Who cares about people complaining lol
so glad i have post notifs on. i always look forward to this man's videos
Ive been accused of cheating recently, It felt nice
Your videos are so high quality. Every time, the editing, the choice of footage etc...
Thanks for those.
On the technical side, I'm curious if this has to do with allowing multiple input devices to be used at any time. On PC you can switch from keyboard to your controller at any time. I wonder if locking in whatever device is being used once "fight" is called would help with this
No. cheats could be embedded into a keyboard or any input devices
nope, even if - that's what hacks do in the first place, remove any kind of checks and protections. from gamedev side, you just "get inputs" and that's about it. the rest is the job of anticheat software, checking for 3rd party software, macros, or modified game files.
What's worrying is if they invested a bit more time to make the script react realistically, with reaction times that are humanly possible, more realistic use of drive gauge, make it only guess right in RPS 80-90% of the time, etc.
If you combined all those elements together, it would make it feel a lot more human while maintaining an insanely high win rate.
Didn’t think I would run into a cheater anytime soon since this is kind of new and then last night I run into one with a 22 win game streak. Kadinga was the players tag. I saw other replays and noticed they all ran into the same things: Inputs not coming out, parry not coming out, and perfect parrying when they were under pressure (almost without fail)
There will be times I’m playing someone and they block everything that shouldn’t be blocked, or if I’m doing DI THEY ARE NOT EVEN ON THE GROUND THEY STILL MANAGE TO PERFECTLY DO A DI COUNTER . Not sure if this is a form of cheating but they block things that I should be able to block
I don't know uf this would be a solution, but if they restricted major online tournaments to just consoles, would that reduce it enough? Im not saying that would eliminate cheating, and also, that would create a whole bunch of other issues, but just for the sake of combating specifically these types of cheating, would that help?
how would you verify what platform they are playing on though?
You have to be rly good to know somebody cheats. In shooters its the same with some cheats. In apex, i couldn't tell at the start, but now, i can tell when its a cheater. Like, if im tapstrafing and a guy oneclips me with a multitude of headshots, i know its Sus already. Lucky shits exist, but not if you keep doing it.
Must be the same here. Im learning fighting games, and i cant tell whats real and whats not yet.
With fighting games, it will be relatively similar, you'll find people with stupid ridiculous reactions, with ultra flawless defense, who barely understand the fundamentals of the game. Like how you'd see cheaters in apex with garbage movement and absolutely 0 gamesense who just laser people with visible aimsnapping. The better at the actual game they are, the harder it is to tell. It might be a real issue.
@@acydrayn73 That's definitely true, and you're both right. It's the very suspicious combination of generally poor gamesense and fundamentals, coupled with totally insane and consistent reactions/execution/aiming.
Yeah blatant cheaters are easy to catch, but when a good player who has a good game sense uses very subtle hacks it becomes harder to notice (eg. Pros and streamers).
@@helljumperodst6780 Definitely, and this is where the biggest threat lies since it's so hard to detect, on top of the player already being good to begin with
Can't wait for Darksydephil to watch this and start the next chapter of his "All PC players are cheating" copium arc.
what is lightspeed's emblem card and how do i get it?
Cheating definitely isn't an issue right now atleast that makes ranked unplayable. But I think it's going to be an actual issue in SF6 eventually as cheating becomes more available and prominent. Especially with how effective cheating is despite the skrubs using em.
I played someone today with a 178 win streak. I was thinking his must be good but what happen was when I was in the corner as I decided to hold down block, he would only grab.
Then I decided to hold “up” then he jabbed.
Then I did EX then he blocked. (That’s when I knew he could see my inputs some how)
I was unsure as to how this could happen online but I did further research lead me to see that people can read inputs.
Probably the most common cheat I've seen is the one that will auto DI anything that will guaranteed lose to DI if you press early enough, including DI back.
It works off an input reader so an easy way to detect it if you suspect it is being used is to press DI a few times after the round loads but before it starts (while you're waiting for it to say "FIGHT") then check the replay inputs. If the godlike counter DI reacts in 3F to every one of those DIs that never even came out...well...godlike reactions indeed.
Feels like I've definitely faced cheaters before. SOmetimes one dude just like perfect throw tech every single time no matter how unpredictable I try to be. And since I'm in Asia servers that 100% could be the case.
The first guy reminds me of bash dodge scripters in For Honor, where when someone initiates a bash attack, they have a program that reads the screen and will see the bash icon frame one and automatically side step and counter
Its hard to asses based of just a couple of matches. I once played a cammy player who was diamond one and I am only platinum 3. I played him in the Battle hub mode and i think I lost to him 20 matches to 7. He looked pretty sus to me, his hit confirms were simply on another level and out of the 27 matches I played, I only got to throw him twice, he would simply tech throw me every single time no matter how hard I tried, whether I did it using drive rush or other mix ups. I kept playing him consistently to check whether he was cheating and I definitely think he was, cuz his tech throws was one of the major reasons I simply couldn't pressure him. That said, I missed out a lot of anti airs, so that was bad on my part, I could have done better there, but it was honestly his reading on my throws that were so on point.
Four. Hundred. Dollars?
To cheat in a $60 game??
Holy shit.
(dia ur tag for cheating in the description is misspelled, idk if that affects ur seo at all)
as a zangeif depending on the match up. i would totally jump back, after jumping forward. but not parrying or blocking when JP threw the fake fireballs was super sus.
I will say Lightspeeds forward to downback is not actually that difficult on hitbox. I do a similar set of inputs all the time. Admittedly, the reaction itself is more crazy than the inputs, but i know I do those types of inputs somewhat regularly
Why offline event should be the normal instead of the exception.
Street Fighter's networking architecture is prolly deterministic lockstep, so they can just send inputs between clients to easily implement rollback. And the problem is that your client has to simulate everything with both sets of inputs and you probably already know that - you have all information about inputs of your enemy.
if a 1700+ player cheats it's IMPOSSIBLE to caught, (especially if there is a switch on/off button, like the aimbot) you just need to guess right in 1 or 2 key moments. at this rank I played against a well programmed bot, he was playing weird but only in the second match I realized it was a bot
Diaphone, they could easily detect if the inputs come from the fingerprint of the registered device or from another software, i'm a software engineer myself in this should take and senior engineer no more than a month to develop this layer of security but knowing how silly capcom is i'm affraid this is will be something they never implement.
i miss when playing on playstation protected me from cheaters
Unfortunately, for fighting games, it never really did, macros have been a part of console fighting games for as long as 3rd party controllers have had a "Turbo" button. With that said, the potential for issue is large, but the amount of fgc cheaters is quite low.
with controller mods you still get cheaters in every game, give people an inch they'll take a mile
I've ran into this myself. I'm a 1790 MR Jamie but I somehow got matched with a 1200 MR Luke who teched literally every single grab attempt and I was never able to shimmy them. The guy was defending more perfectly than the Legend ranks I bump into.
Sadly, it's one of those things Capcom can fight but will never win. The true solution is intrusive software that scans your computer and prevents cheats from happening (very hard to do). If it's just detection from replays, it's just a forever chase of cheaters getting better and Capcom having to catch up. Eventually, non-cheaters will get flagged if they go to aggressively.
As a Plat 1 player who cooks alongside high Diamonds and Masters, ranks are a complete joke in this game.
I ran into a Master Ryu a few days before Phase 2 started and the person had zero Ranked Matches logged. All Battle Hub, Practice and World Tour only. As expected, they played at about Gold level. Is hacking ranks actually possible? If so does it affect Legend rankings?
But how do I use the beads to win in SF? That's what I need to know
I'll never understand the mentality of cheating at competitive games. Not only does it ruin the point of the game entirely but it's effectively like admitting to yourself and sometimes openly that you are absolute trash.
Thank you! I thought I was going crazy. even made a reddit post asking if it was going on but then deleted it over shame for complaining as a d1 noob. again, thank you for confirming this
"Let's start from the bottom"
*quick cutback to chess TSA agent scanning dude's butt*
A+ editing
I'm outside the loop on thus, just a casual observer. Is there any way we could see a breakdown of a few matches of top players that are known NOT to be cheating? I just wonder if any of the crazy frame rate stuff happens "naturally" more than expected
99% of top players are not cheaters, would just be a normal video breakdown ngl
I'll give it to you. That's a strong ass hook at the beginning, I was playing this video in the background but you got my attention
I remember back in the sf4 days one person would get two Xbox’s, but two street fighters, and play each other in rank to rank up. I remember the #1 decapre player from Germany did that
I have no way of knowing if they are just amazing players or cheating though.... or if I just suck really bad that day lol
The jumping forward and then jumping back is something I do, I might change my mind on what I was doing or I might be able to throw them off in some way, set a pattern until they expect me to jump back again but then I charge forward, that's not suss I don't think and the same with walking forward and then immediately down/back to block quickly, that is very normal, something have done with street fighter II since it arrived on the SNES, was that 1992? I need to do that one all the time, especially if it looks like they are just about to do a fireball or sliding attack, etc
Scripting is definitely becoming more and more of a common problem, though it's mostly for free games. Usually it isn't actually playing for you, but it does automatically perform certain things.
Everyone is aware of shooter ones, but other games are seeing it more now. An example I can give is League. Scripts that will make your character perfectly walk around skill shots, or perfectly orb walk as ADCs.
Something that has been happening is that they will script in intentional imperfections to make it hard to detect, much like the %modifiers you mentioned.
If it does evolve to the point that it's indistinguishable from human play, then I don't think it will matter. If you can't tell they're scripting at all, then they're just denying themselves the act of playing the game or the satisfaction of growing.
that zangief one looks like it could be real, I know that in some games I just do these weird things that work a lot of times and would seem weird until you understand what players I fight and how I fight in general, some holes in my play due to most players not exploiting them, but seeing how consistent some of these defenses are though… it might be cheating with this guy
It could be capcom testing live their machine learning system. I dug into the code during the beta and saw multiple references to it.
I stopped playing for 2 months, got back, my very 1st fight was a cheater...
Doing stuff no one would do in these situations like DI after a fireball when the fireball didn't connect (not blocked or no hit) every time I press a button (input reading). At first I thought qcb punch from Cammy was expected from my opponent but I started pressing jabs and every single time DI would come out as a reaction although I wasn't nowhere near enough to get hit by it.
When I called him a cheater he didn't even try to defend himself.
A few other players were reporting cheaters also in the same room.
It's more present than you know because done well, you won't notice it.
I now play with that suspicion in mind and that's not good for the game.
I definitely feel I have encountered a cheater playing this game in BattleHub. New Challenger DJ with insane Perfect Parry reactions and Drive Impact timing. We did like 10 matches overall, and at first I thought they were just good, but the consistency they had despite me changing my strategy. It was whacky! I mean they were Drive Impacting me on frame 3 consistently it felt like. Despite us having 3 frames of rollback! Also, a very weird thing, after our matches I went to watch replays of the match to check their inputs. No replays to be found! And a similiar amount of experience playing online to your reference above. Anyhoo, the games were in Battle Hub so I didn't really care about the losses, it felt more like trying to figure out a puzzle than anything else, but I am 95% confident he was hacking.
At least it's still a small pool of cheaters compared to FPS where it's rampant, but the future definitely doesn't seem bright.
Take a closer look at dhalsims abilities. Due to his yoga loat you can pull off some awesome tricks
Fought a guy that was able to perfect parry any crouching MK.
Only the MK and once i stoped doing it i destroyed him.
There is a guy in the North America server 001 called "elugo" who constantly talks about scripts and hacks he made for SF6, and it seems that he is there to sell them, the last one i saw he mention was one hack to play with dynamic controls in ranked
I honestly can't understand it, I play for fun and if I go tryhard I WANT TO BE BETTER, not a filthy win with some cheat. I am the type of people who doesn't even like to pick top tiers or abuse glitches/broken stuff in fighting games, I can not comprehend how someone would use cheats on something that basically is a test about yourself... It is like going to the gym and doing nothing while telling others lies on how you lifted weight.
If it’s in the game abuse it, there is no problem with abusing broken shit or top tiers. Especially when money is involved.
Granted scripts and the like aren’t in the game
Mental illness I figure.
lmao thats the saem analogy I came to, it's like cheating at the gym
@@aquaticnstuff7666 Never cheated once in anything in games or even as a kid tbh, love the journey and fun that comes with improvement but i took steroids to get huge fast so i could get loads of pussy. I guess its about if what you want is pride/progression or if the end result is your only goal.
Wait what. This how we open vids. I had to replay the first 5 seconds like 6 timrs
Got a friend who trained up a python to fish for him in warcraft, even got it to make the mouse movement on screen towards the boey seem human
my fav hack to see people do is the cancel a button with a drive rush then 3 frames later cancel that into a drive impact just because i drive impacted their button lol
So basically disable crossplay when playing on consoles and problem solved?
They need to return to in person tournaments if prize pools are going to remain elevated. There is no way around it if you want competitive integrity.
I'm concerned about the fearmongering going around. I don't imagine there are that many actual cheaters in-game. $400 is a huge entry fee, and I just can't see the average player going through with it. If they cared enough about it that $400 seems adequate, they'd probably already be at masters or close to it, but otherwise it's far too expensive.
And therein lies the problem. I read the forums and we have Golds and Platinums yelling "Cheater! Scripts!" at each other. "Guy DId all my random DIs, he's a cheater! They were all from neutral but he didn't miss a single one! Cheater! Cheater! Cheater!!!!!!!!!". A lot of channels are overblowing the cheater issue and people are starting to think it's some sort of pandemic and the community is falling apart. This is, to me, worse than the cheaters themselves - we're killing the community with trust issues.
imo, with the block feature it doesn't really matter. If someone looks like a cheater, or even is just plain annoying to play, you can just block them and never deal with it again. Sucks for online events being used as qualifiers, though. But I feel we can't let the community eat itself over a minority of a minority doing cheats.
Well said
The examples given in the video were of alleged cheaters at the top of the rankings. At that level it matters a whole lot. The fact that it doesn't matter in low rank (which seems like an arbitrary judgement) does not affect the potential devastating effects of the problem. Also, the $400 script is just a single example. And the more people there are writing scripts, the cheaper they will be. I'm not saying you're wrong about the percentage of cheaters, but you don't know either.
I certainly agree with you that most of the people yelling 'cheater' at each other are more often than not flat out wrong and it's just the usual toxicity calling someone a 'cheater' instead of a 'm*****f*****' for example. Still, cheating is prevalent and it's far from a 400$ entry fee, that was just 1 example of many possible cheats some more sophisticated than others. The thing is that your attitude here is wrong. You're basically saying we should ignore the problem because toxic people use it as a way to be toxic, but in truth toxic people will be toxic no matter what, and it doesn't matter if the toxicity is calling someone a cheater, a *insert bad word here* or whatever else. By saying it's a trust problem you're dismissing the more obvious generic toxicity aspect and reading too much into the content of the toxicity, which really makes no difference.
diaphone can you cover the GBVS:R system changes 🥺
Question: I once ran into a Gief who played pretty scrubby, but every DI was INSTANTLY answered by his own DI.
So did he use a script for that single issue or did he exclusively mental stack on DI?
auto DI has been around for a while so probably yeh
Its a 1 button input, if you have natural god reactions its so easy to impress fighting gamers with these 1 button reacts like DI or parry
I thought Denuvo was supposed to stop this? So it doesn't stop piracy, and it doesn't stop cheating. All for the low, low price of making your game run worse. What a steal.
2:26 The real question is why does the “command grab fireball” lose to armor. Did the devs just get cold feet and not do that? Because that is literally the only time I would see it be at all useful.
I'm still only a student, so I have no idea what professionals in video games' programming/engineers believe are reasonable, but my soultion to this problem would be similar to how schools use specific programs to stop students from cheating. If inputs are seen externally from the program they use to host exams, they get alerted.
Maybe the input controller for a fighting game could check for inputs occurring outside of the combat portions of the game while running. At the very least send a report of input history to devs to review activity.
Steam can virtualize controller inputs as in you can change A to be RB. With that sending of inputs being a middle man all sf6 gets and sends to the opponent are the inputs. The game however on the cheater side is sending info the the cheat engine or script to have it know what is going on and what to react with. To me its a case of detecting the observer but only one who can see it is the cheater's version of the game. Verification checks would likely fail or have bypasses and unless they crack down hard on modding it wouldn't work at all. If you can mod at all these cheats will exist.
The only way to deal with it is to make a system that somehow invalidates these cheats conceptually at a game design level. To basically have no situation a perfect player can win without having legitamate perfect guesses on the opponent's choices. Lets say any move can be canceled into another move that beats the first moves counter at any point during start up, and instantly perform the attack. And the properties of moves that beat the first or second moves don't come out frame one. If I use move one cheater can use the move that counters it. But if I swap to the second move, once I do so the CPU would have to already moved to the counter for move 2 to beat it. Their window to counter my offense is lost if they try and react. If they guess I cancel into move 2 and I don't I still win. Cheat has to guess.
Situations like this all over the game. Issue however being doing exactly that. And another potential bottle neck: faking delay. If the cheater gets inputs from the other player ahead in the game logic they can if they are far enough behind (say 5 frames is needed to counter a switch, and after 5 frames they can see if i switched or let the move go through now being that far behind me) they can send the input that they used the countering move. The saving grace for us is having to keep a constant 5+ frames of rollback in this example would be enough to make most players block them for poor connection speeds and still keeps it only possible online. No beads will save you here. The downside is the nature of said FG would be dramatically read based. It would basically play like high level virtua fighter to an extent. And on defense could be clunky if you tried to add a delay to blocking, but a prevelant guard meter mechanic could aleviate it.
The example above also needs to mirror the situation for the responder side. If you read the change the cheater can just cancel only in the last frame if needed. If in the last frame you aren't able to counter it, it stays. What needs to happen is the cheater also has to guess if they change or not. Perhaps for online a system for this exact situation can be devised: the game has a few windows for canceling into other moves say 4 during the start up. If you input a cancel during a window you will do so at the end of the window. For online play this still occurs however the input for the action only gets sent at the last frame. The cheater can't see you canceled until they had to read it. However this means on responder is the cheater can only reliably predict a need to change if you cancel early into something else at which point in the following cancel window for their attack if available they can cancel to counter your preempt. However if the windows are less than the time needed for the counter properties to kick in you have to do so 2 windows prior and the chances of a player who is drawing first having 2 free windows to counter a cancel is very low.
Still likely some flaws tbh this latter idea i'd drop from this but the idea of holding inputs player side till last possible frame if them doing it early won't change their outcome could be valuable. Issue is making them special so if the player is no longer in the same state ie: they just got hit recovered and now are doing the attack the buffered ages ago the game knows it was an input for this state and doesn't throw the move out since they no longer are in that state. Hit stun windows can also universally be larger than buffers to make it impossible to get hit and have the buffer do anything as the buffer comes out when in hitstun. Anyway I'm done spitballing some of these ideas I'm refining for myself.
nah that walk forward into an instantaneous low block was all I needed to see. That was insanely sketchy.
Wait what? How do you start a video like that?
The Gief in the first clips played like a lower ranked player so doing some random DI's is not out of the question. The least suspicious DI was actually the one where he jumped back and did DI. That is just a thing people do in lower ranks to catch someone trying to poke at you after you land. The fact that so many seemed to hit their mark against JP EX fireball is suspicious though.
Though them not parrying any of the ghost feints does make it clear that they were cheating.
Even though the timing is sussy, the "confirm" at 8:06 seems the most human to me. I haven't played 6, but in SFV everybody was swinging and buffering specials all the time.
The only real fix is hosting qualifiers and tournaments offline, on trusted PCs or consoles. Cheats can always be made smarter to the point where you are statistically unable to say with a high enough confidence if someone is a cheater or not.
This is still a very real problem in Magic the Gathering events too and they're still constantly dealing with new 'innovations' in the cheat game. To say nothing of the shmucks at your local.
As a tekken player who cannot TJU no neutral frames on hitbox is way easier than you’d think.
That first line of the video hit me like a freight truck
I play tekken on pc too , and its the same shit bro . auto block auto parry n stuff , good video bro !
BrianF did a video on it that showed the "alleged" cheat being worked on, and it looked a lot like the cheats you see these days in FPS, where everything has a little slider you can adjust from tiny miniscule advantage to full blown cracked perfect bot. And that is the real issue, the sliders cause they can make it really, really hard to see when it's real and when it's a cheat.
Take for example a pro player who is already really good but decided they want an edge to make sure they qualify for capcom cup through online qualifiers. They get said cheat and they set all the sliders to like 5%. Might not seem like much but now they are (perfect) parrying, throw teching, perfect read DI 5% more than they normally would. Can you imagine the kind of difference that would make in a tournament?
Im sure capcom can pickup manipulation in a tournament game, because their eyes will be on it. But online play not involving money they wont be looking as often unless theres a bunch of complaints
What's a dry brush?
Ive been accused of cheating because i have won tourneys doing the most unoptimal things. I dont mind killing in 3 touches over 2. An extra 4% damage isnt worth it to me when it cost resources and doesnt put me in a more advantageous frame state. Plus my mix is very random i dont even think i just let my hands do whatever they feel like. Prolly because i have over 300 hours in my program i made that simulates out combos and test my execution down to the frame.
Wow, remember when we used to go to the arcade and play a game because it was fun? Just for the fun of playing?
That wasn’t even natural inputs from lightspeed 😂 you don’t go just only back and forward and block frame perfect or punish perfectly every time
Definitely alot harder to tell from say FPS games particularly because the instant inhuman reactions are much harder to discern something needs to be done.
Today the players can use computer vision tech to cheat, no need to hack the game