Football's Neighbours: An Uneasy Relationship in Zurich
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- A brief history of how Grasshoppers Zürich lost their home, the Hardturm Stadium, and the impact on the club’s identity and its relationship with the local community.
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#SwissSuperLeague #GrasshopperZurich #Hardturm
As a swiss citizen and a long time fan of Grasshoppers I have to say that this a really well researched video. Great work!!
Though what a f*** up story it is... :(
Its a general problem with any big ambitious project in Switzerland...Kongresshaus, Ice Hockey stadium to name a few
Hopp GC :)
I hope Switzerland can one day have a very high level league.
@@Micfri300 Lol... football hooligans are generally the ones who are also committing crimes... and green spaces being used for nonlegal activities... that's just pathetic. Would that mean that we have to bring down every single tree in this world, because green spaces could, theoretically, be used for nonlegal activities? With that reasoning, we should also tear down all buildings on earth, as a lot of crimes are being committed in buildings as well. And why are you turning this discussion into a discussion about the environment in the sense of climate change and stuff like that? When talking about the environment, a lot of people don't necessarily mean that: they just mean that they want a nice, green city to live in. And... btw: do you realize that scientific research generally finds that people are a lot happier, a lot more productive, a lot more relaxed and a lot less stressed when living in a green environment?
Look, I'm not saying that (re)building this stadium is necessarily a bad idea, but I do understand why some people have opposed it and, if I lived very close to that stadium, I'd probably do the same. You seem to be incredibly convinced that you know everything and you know what's good for everyone and, to be honest, that's a kind of arrogance I think this world could do without...
@@Micfri300 hating democracy because a football stadium doesnt get built is the most stupid thing i ever heard. switzerland is doing pretty well (apart from football) so a stadium isnt worth trowing our values and system out of the window
This channel could make a vid on the life story of the Box v4 in Bruneian amateur leagues and I'd still love the video
Legend
@@thesuomi8550 thank you
What is the Box v4?
@@pigrabbitfriend the 1 rated player FIFA career mode on the channel FNG
Oi... Box Gang where you at?
So glad that this issue got international attention and you picked up the story. I spent my entire childhood next to the Hardturm and also became a Grasshopper fan. You wouldn't even wish your worst enemies to play your home games in your biggest rivals stadium. The problem in Switzerland is generally that, anyone (literally anyone even a homeless guy) can raise a complain with the project, which then has to go thorugh the court and delays the entire process. Particularly in Höngg rich house owners fear, that the towers could impact their scenery of the city...
Sathorus93 I grew up in Höngg as a GC fan and I still remember watching the Hardturm on match day from my bedroom window.
That sounds amazing!
What about Inter and AC Milan sharing the San Siro?
big difference since its historically rooted@@Ben14102
Sathorus93 yeah that makes sense
Very good! As a Zurich citizen knowing quite a bit about the issue, this is a better outbalanced and accurate summary timeline than has ever been produced by our local newspapers. Looking at things from a distance surely can help to see the forest instead of only a whole bunch of trees.
Wow stadium delays are literally killing grasshopper club
Another crazy story is AEK Athens in Greece that have been playing on the Olympic Stadium since 2004. The construction of their new ground is a long way from being finished.
Exactly. Would be nice to make a video about taht
@@istinpolin4508 actually it is finished
aaah switzerland, a land that we could phrase by : "We agree to disagree, so we ain't doing nothing"
Please do the same for AEK ATHENS. AEK is building now its new stadium in the original area in NEA PHILADELPHIA but the old one was destroyed in 2003. AEK is playing for 15 years without its home!
Brilliant video! I visited Zurich in August and did not know about this part of it's footballing history! It is a truly beautiful city, albeit very expensive.
Here in Zürich the relationship between the two fanbases was already very heated up and even though GC were always more successful and more beloved by the fans, it was the city regime and the authorithies who always favourized FC Zürich because its an official city club (You can see on their jerseys the word "Stadtclub" which means city club). However, the can't steal the tradition that GC has, even though they destroyed the stadium, GC still is the club that's the face of Zürich and that will always be seen as the biggest club in the city.
hahah I can only laugh at that. GC has always been an elitist snobbish club with around 10 supporters in all of Switzerland combined. FCZ is the club of the people. Now that the Chinese have bought GC to use it as a farm club, I hardly believe it's image will be any better in the future
@@lukasmiller8531 money in football is good. I wouls like to see Zurich club get relegated to the secomd division.
Cry harder hahaha
Thanks for that great video. I will always love Grasshopper Club Zurich…
Thank you Tifo for bringing this tragic story to light. it shows how egoism and selfishness of a few individuals can almost destroy a most successful club that competed on highest european level in the 90s. it is also important to mention that the "stadionbrache" was only allowed by the city council under the condition to not oppose new stadium projects. they have not held their word but are backed by the social democrats and green party as prominent members are neighbours there. zurichs council has a green-left majority and this what they use it for. they even let the tax payers money cut the grass and the ground is a empty muddy sludge for 8-9 months a year. they also abused the friday for future kids for their little garden to make it look popular in the year of the vote. it is disgusting what they have done on the historic ground. it is the reason why many potential voters supporting GC send empty ballots for the city council or make protest votes. in 2020 60% approved the same project as in 2018 because loopholes made it possible to vote for the exact same project again, making direct democracy look like a farce. why are we voting if we have to vote again without anything changing? still they try to delay it as far as possible to again get the Investors to give up even if in the legal way they have no chance to win. and the prominent members neighbouring the ground want to change construction laws in their favor. joke is that it completely contradicts the idea of higher density living in urban areas to protect switzerlands nature wich their parties promote. this goes with the swiss saying "we all want change just not where it affects me". but as GC Fans say. WE ARE STILL HERE EVEN IF WE ARE NOT IN FASHION. we will fight till the end and arise from the ruins of Hardturm!
Another great vid
Zurich needs a football stadium. Hopp GC
Very good video, if you're already on the topic of Switzerland: do a video on the recent domination of FC Basel, that saw them win 12 league titles and 7 Swiss Cups between 2002 and 2017, beat countless PL Teams in the European competitions (Liverpool, Chelsea, ManUtd, ManCity, Spurs and Fulham) and produce countless World Class players (like Rakitic, Salah, Shaqiri, Xhaka or Sommer)
And who's number 1 in Switzerland now? YB.;)
more about switzerland 😁 amazing video, as always top quality
Can't be many clubs in the world with a worse stadium situation than Bristol Rovers. 2 previous stadiums burnt down by rival fans, a 10 year exile to a different city and now a 25 year stay at a "temporary stadium" due to planning issues with redeveloping the ground and financial issues barring them from buying and starting from scratch.
Thank you for beautiful videos
Great video guys!
You should talk about Boavista FC’s history 🏁
People actually vote in Seitzerland 😱 W0W
Do a video about Belenenses in Portugal. To put in perspective, it’s just a new mk dons/ afc Wimbledon case in football
Wait what's happening to Belenenses?
The real Belenenses ( C.F Os Belenenses) are playing in the lower leagues. The new Belenenses (Belenenses SAD) they are playing in the top flight, but it just isnt the same club. Portuguese justice have already confirmed that the SAD can not use the emblems and I believe also the colours of the club.
@@andresilva5547 Yeah, i've seen that Belenenses (that new one) use only a cross as emblem, but i didn't think much of it. I had no idea, did they go bankrupt or what, why are they in lower leagues?
Василије ЦЗВ pretty much the board or SAD as we say in Portugal has 51% or so Share of the club, and because the fans and the board were constantly in disagreement, they simply split up from the board. The new club dont even have a stadium, they are playing in the estádio nacional. Sad story from one of the few portuguese clubs outside the 3 giants that have won the league and some domestic cups.
@@andresilva5547 Yeah i know, i was really big fan of portuguese league back in day, a lot of people from my country Serbia were playing there and are still playing there, so i was really following the league. These days not as much, but i'm still pretty broken to hear that such great club now plays in lower leagues, while some scumbag ripoff is in first division.
Can you do a vid on Salford city?
What if I told you half the top-tier matches in Athens take place in one place, the Olympic stadium?
Another compelling topic. Great video!
An idea for a vid about clubs without stadiums of their own: Universidad de Chile has played in Estadio Nacional for pretty much its entire existence, with a number of projects shut down. Funny is, its the 2nd most winner club in the country, one of the 2 to ever win an international tourney and arguably in the 1st or 2nd spot in popularity nationwide.
On a side note, what's the story behind Young Boys Bern gaining in strength recently?
money
Can you guys make a video about Real Madrid's golden era of 50s and 60s
Can’t really say Real Madrid only have one golden era
you never mentioned dalymount park, the ancestral home of Irish football where 2 of the oldest Dublin clubs in senior football will ground share after redevelopment. what is more striking is that both Vienna and Dublin are 2 of the wealthiest city's in the world, yet there seem to be no need to look after football at grassroots...
Just a small note: the tenth district is pronounced “heuh-nk”. I used to live there and it’s quite high above the city so that might explain their reservations.
Respect
Fantastic video, could you make another video on the Qatar World Cup?
I live in Qatar
Eashan Saju CM and more I’ve been like 4 or 5 times, I love the country and I’m very supportive of their World Cup fans
*plans
Wasn't this a club Alex visited?
You should check out Salgueiros' story. Also a sad story of "modern football was here $$$"
Do about about a professional club in Malaysia are having wage delays
That's my Club! GC Züri jetzt und s ganze lebe lang!
damn du bisch also eine vo dene 4 fans
Same problem with Panathinaikos, even though the old sadium still exists
that is a bruh moment if i've ever seen one
Do a video on Valencia stadium also
Hey guys! A video about CD Guadalajara (aka Chivas) of Mexico and a little bit about their policy to ONLY have Mexican players in the squad and how they’re the second most winning club in Mexico. They’ve had a downfall between 2010 and 2016. Would be awesome, great work!
Can you do a tactical profile for man utd under ole?
There is one in the section for members!
Make a video about Ole’s Tactics
good luck Grasshoppers.
A video on ole Gunnar please
I love football, but I think I support the power of community organizing more in this case. If the deal was going to be done, it would have been best to do it with public money years ago. That's the people's land now.
you should do a video about Dalymount park & Bohemian & Shelbourne imminent ground share, ancestral home off Irish football and the 2 oldest dublin clubs in senior football locals rivals for last 30 Years to boot!! all money, shopping centres, redevelopment, council votes, planning permission, debt, success on the field, in 2 of the richest citiues in the world (vienna Dublin )
This is quite depressing
San Lorenzo spent a longer time without having a stadium
Switzerland big W
Love how they want to keep Letzigrund for concerts but the government will only allow 4 concerts there per year.
Melvs15 And one athletics event every year. XD
What's the music?
Well this is quiet
could you make a video about how lucrative it is that salzburg is better than leipzig and still gives them their players
Who's watching football in Switzerland??
Well football is the national sport (except maybe winter sports like skiing) but it's definitely the most popular one. For example Switzerland's national team ranks in 8th in the world ranking and yes I know this is silly but nontheless it shows what standing football has in Switzerland (if it wasn't so popular Switzerland would have no chance building up a (football) infrastructure and national team like that).
hey who wants tifo to make ea's fifa vs konami's pes
You guys should make a video about Hashtag United.
Is that even a professional club? No
How did the club get its name?
Tom E Griffith was an English student who found the club with other students in 1886. "Grasshopper" was chosen for that they are quick and agile moving in the grass as should player be.
Xavi And Iniesta?
An now in 2023 the construction has still not stardet.
So there actually has been another referendum since, but the vote did not change
Turkish flag isn’t like that
Make a video about FC Zürich! :D
The greener the better. I love football but there are waaay too many contructions and another stadium would be bad for the enviorment
Sports stadium’s are- generally - a money pit. They don’t return nearly as much benefit to the local economy as people would have you believe. More green space is better for the city in the long run.
Michele Frisoli Bruh, that’s a terrible argument. Just because other practices are arguably more harmful to the environment doesn’t mean a stadium is a good investment.
I wasn’t even speaking on the environmental impact of the structure; I was thinking more about the alleged economic benefits. If it’s an issue about having a structure that boosts the economy, then it’d be much more efficient to build a something like a shopping center. Use the space for something wholly commercial and which will generate revenue for the entire year. Just for clarification - In practical terms, how are you distinguishing a “football” stadium from a “sports” stadium? Regardless of the running track, the venue’s primarily orientation is towards hosting football matches. Even if we subtract the track, you’re still going to have the same drawbacks of a stadium - maintenance costs, the impact on net tax revenues, the fact that the income distribution from sports teams (including revenue from stadiums) is typically very narrow and doesn’t benefit people who aren’t directly affiliated with that team, as well as a bunch of other considerations.
Michele Frisoli I don’t really see your point. You object to paying for products from corporate entities in a shopping center, but you’ll consume a product- football - that is produced by modern football industry that is itself heavily corporatized? Plus football clubs of all sizes get taken to court or officially sanctioned for cheating on their taxes or committing other financial irregularities.
Michele Frisoli Additionally, I see a few holes in your logic.
- you mention generating income from crowds, but a) crowds can fluctuate; b) match day income stays mostly in the club’s hands. Sure, they could invest cash into youth football but that’s not exactly a good example of a local economic benefit since youth football doesn’t employ many people. Additionally, there’s no guarantee that a club owner won’t just pocket the money, or disperse the profits to the club shareholders, or do any number of other things that won’t result in local community benefit.
- football clubs (like shopping centers) are businesses. They’re all accountable to government financial regulation and oversight.
- You mention European fixtures but a) the majority of clubs can’t expect to qualify for Europe consistently; and b) there’s no guarantee that the club will be in the competition long enough to turn a profit that will offset the costs of being in that competition.
Michele Frisoli But the state collects tax revenues from corporations as well. Unless you’re suggesting that no professional football club ever employs any of the tactics other businesses use to lessen their tax burden, I don’t see how they’re much better than google.
It would be one thing if these “state-of-the-art, all seater” stadiums were entirely privately financed - thing is, they hardly ever are. Take Everton FC for example - their proposed new stadium is projected to cost up to 500 million. The City of Liverpool recently approved a preliminary deal to finance two-thirds of the costs through a loan. Municipalities subsidize stadium construction costs like this all the time. Public money being used to fund a private enterprise is only a good idea if the profit is guaranteed just from the loan payments, and there are no guarantees in business. Even if the club does fully reimburse the city, what about all the attendant costs associated with any large construction project? Everton won’t have to foot the bill for, say, the infrastructure improvements that are going to have to happen in order to make the dockside stadium accessible to the increased volume of people. Owner occupied stadiums are a sure economic boon for the clubs, but probably aren’t for the public.
It really doesn’t matter how “amazing” a club owned stadium is -that doesn’t save it from being a poor investment.
Why do they HAVE to build additional buildings? Why can’t they just vote on build the stadium instead of voting on 2 towers, 176 social homes AND the stadium?
The towers are there for Credit Suisse, who pay for the stadium, to make a profit. The social homes were included to get the votes. Football doesn't have that much credit in the public these days because of hooliganism.
@@SoLazy100 So I still don't quite get what happened with the initial funding. You'd think that investing in a stadium would be quite a good return given how much money football clubs make, no?
@@faramund9865 Only in the top leagues.
@@SoLazy100 So why build a stadium for a club that can't even afford it? You'd think that if they can fill the stadium each match then they can afford to pay for it.
Welcome to Switzerland
GCZÜRI allez allez allez allez allez allez allez allez
That Turkish flag is absolutely wrong.
Goddamn politics...
Swiss people know what the rest of the world already forgot a long time ago; Football isn't the most important thing in life! In fact it's just a game!
Homeless for 10 years? Get ready Raiders, coz you're gonna be homeless by the time you get a new stadium.
Truth is Zurich is too small for two teams anyway!
No Lausanne have 2 Teams either,and the City is smaller
Zurich has over a million people in the whole region. I know smaller cities with two teams...
What the f*** is that Turkey flag dude come on?
This is probably the rare case when democracy actually becomes a hindrance
It also had some positives in this case. If they had built the first project we would be sitting on a 30000 seater stadium that neither club would sell out.
@@Micfri300 I can read the numbers.
Actually democracy as a hindrance is not a rare case. Just look at how many laws China has passed in a single term compare to the US then u can see the pattern
Michele Frisoli look at the past attendance figures. Neither team can realistically expect to sell out a 30k stadium.
@@Micfri300 They wouldn't even sell out a 30000 seater once, except in a championship winning game. At best FCZ could hope for an average attendance of around 14k and GC of 10k in the new stadium. But I wouldn't bet on that.
FCZ ALL IRR
Gotta admit, THE REFERENDUMS ARE SO ANOYING!!!
ModerniZe? Ew
swiss people are killing the best team in their nation
IT was now there down to the chalange Leauge
@@jarischerrer552 The will be back soon. Not the best but they can grow in the top league..
@@dario9674ful Safe but how log IT will take