LOL it's been brought to my attention that someone else made a very similar video recently. I'm guessing it's not coincidence since I publicly have been talking about this video for weeks, but wtver. Now everyone get's 2 perspectives :) I do ramble on quite a bit in this video, hope you enjoy it!!
MMA Ah, good! Hope it drops for you. Right now, all the Sword Rogues in my guild have Vis’kag. I had it in Vanilla and because the Claw or CTS didn’t drop, I went Daggers and my DPS jumped. Later on just around AQ time, the CTS dropped and I won it with DKP. I went to top DPS right away. Wish I could transfer my Vanilla gear to Classic lol.
CTS to tanks is kinda gross. Way too slow. But human fury warriors will use CTS > ripper through P5. It's still my biggest upgrade to pair with Maladath at +20 DPS or so, where gauntlets of annihilation would be #2 around 10 DPS.
Daggers is a much better build talent build, backstab simply is much more damage per energy over SS. But the ilevel of sword drops tends to be higher, one thing to consider is daggers tend to get given to rogues, at least the guilds i have been in, dagger drops are far less contested. When a sword drops rogues and warriors will both want to roll on it/ bid for it. This means you may get unlucky and end up waiting far longer for a good sword.
HEY ITS Gd, swords will be good maybe better than daggers early on or about the same as dagger, then if you start zerging bosses down in 30 seconds it might start swaying back daggers, and certainly once you get deaths sting
So my take on this video is that.. if ur a dagger rogue without R14 daggers (cause R14 daggers > R14 swords), and without renetaki trinket, then there is not much difference between dagger performance vs sword performance on boss encounters.
The takeaway I see, is that in general Swords will outperform Daggers, but for "parsing", as these guilds do parse runs and kill bosses instantly, you will be better off with Daggers. Daggers both dump energy better, and is less hits for damage. That means that for a good parse to happen, you will have less instances needing to go your way than with swords. Ex: 6 back to back backstabs critting is a lot more dmg than the same with sinister strike, resulting in more dmg. I beleive in your average guild that isnt killing BWL sub 30min, Swords are better because of how versatile they are, and shoot ahead with Maladath.
I’ve tried many times to be a dagger rogue. I have all the good daggers but I can’t get into it. I guess I’m just not a sneak-up-and-stick-it-in-from-behind kind of person. The positional requirements are a huge pain in the butt as far as I’m concerned, and it’s just not fun for me.
daggers actual work very very well on cthun, the eye is flipping around so fast, that you will never energy cap. during weakness phases in phase 2, the boss also has a fixated back side.
Good video but I would of loved it to have some more info on this topic. For example: * Parse differences between top daggers and swords rogues currently in BWL/MC in P4 (minus R14 weapons as most ppl don't have time for that) * Overall damage in a raid for the same above ^ * Info on how the new backstab level ("Handbook of Backstab IX" ) could be a nice DPS boost for daggers * Comparison of daggers and swords at end game P6, which one is likely to be better overall * More details on when/why cleaving may be better in swords or daggers depending on the situation * Darkmantle for swords and daggers, you spoke before briefly and said swords benefits more I think! Hope that's good feedback, I'm currently a sword rogue and looking at going daggers in P5 but I'm still unsure! I have CTS but if I go daggers it will no doubt be a nice upgrade, but considering death sting is amazing in P6 too I may stick with daggers. Being a human rogue makes it a tough choice as I have my pick of the best swords in game too.
That goes without saying, and parry-haste is the least of the reasons why, but when clearing trash often the only time you can cleave is to NOT be behind the mob.
Nice vid man . One thing I am interested though is , why you rank Maladath > Brutality blade in terms of Mainhand weapons? I actually use Mh: Brutality blade and Oh: Maladath , cause Viskag and CTS just refuse to drop for me . In my opinion Brutality just lookes like the superior MH cause of higher damage on it ( not dps ) and having a slow MH usually means more procs when having PPM components around . But I'm interested in what thoughts you have about it
Interesting vid! I'm waiting for a seal of fate video. Very curious how that comes into play. As well as how it affects gearing, as you miss some talents like weapon expertise. =)
I got Perds and ACLG pretty early so that forced me to go daggers but I never got CHT. Always wanted to go swords though since for me its just funnier and I like the aesthetics better. Then after 5-6 months I finally got Viskags and got my hands on a Maladath (3 in our guild so far) so I could respecc. Yesterday I got my first ever CTS! (second one for our guild.) I'm a happy rogue
i play alliance and yeah most rogues are daggers on my server. all rogues in my guild are daggers, we only see daggers drop no swords and if they do, they go to the warriors. Hoping to get ravencrest legacy from the AQ questline and get an AQR somehow. I hate daggers so much lol
I also think you have to take in to account whats going to be better for you gearing wise. For instance in my guild we have a lot of fury warriors and sword rogues but only myself and 1 other dagger rogue. Trying to compete with 12+ people on swords when they drop is very hard especially since the drop chance of weps is rare. Going dagger has opened the door for me gearing wise since i only compete with one person and while everyone else is still trying to get their swords it allows me to start focusing on my set pieces
Hey Sarthe! Been watching ever since rogue became my primary alt and the toon I raid lead our second raid with. I’ve been daggers for a while, as it seems more interesting and fun for me. But I’ve rather stubbornly stuck as Seal Fate, because it feels a lot more rewarding. Have you made a Seal Fate video yet? I’ve only scanned quickly and haven’t seen anything.
I’ve ran daggers as seal fate, although the single target dps is really good, I don’t feel like the amount of crit you can get is quite good enough (with current phase gear) to justify the seal fate build throughout entire raids. If you are able to get deaths sting next phase and get that extra dagger skill and stack more crit gear, I can absolutely see the seal fate build topping some parses
Sarthe your videos are amazing, thanks again. I've been trying to tell the other rogues in my guild to try and pick up some swords where they can. Unfortunately we've had appalling luck with weapon drops, with only 2 Viskaggs ever, 1 CTS and 1 Mala. The part about people taking good items and quitting really hit home, both Viskagg rogues quit or rerolled :( We run LC so unfortunately the dagger rogues have no chance to get swords either, but I've been telling them to roll on the Claw of the Black Drake and to get themselves into Ony pugs!
CotBD is the most realistic option for dagger rogues for a trash weapon. Sword drops are too rare, they're never gonna get one realistically except Brut blade which is too weak to be worthwhile
Great video as always. I’m very close to getting my thunder fury. And when I mix it up with Maladath, i’ll hopefully be able to let you know how well it does in a future video. Maybe I’ll leave a comment and link my characters name so you can look at the logs. I do wonder how well that sword comp will do as an undead in raids w: wind fury. I’ve also been testing out builds with the poison trinket from BWL and swords when we don’t have enough shamans for every group, and I was popping some seriously good numbers with instant poison on both weapons on short fights like Vael and Razorgore.
I am a Gnome Rogue. I have CTS and Maladath but I also have a Perdition's Blade (not real suitable OH yet). Going into AQ do you think it would be worth going daggers? I am in a DKP guild so I can go whichever route I want. I am torn which way to go.
Yo Sarthe, i'm a warrior main but still enjoy your content a lot! Definetly think you're the best classic wow youtuber! Wish there was a channel of the same quality focusing on warriors instead of rogues! Any plans on doing some content focused on warriors? :D
Um idk but theres also an evis book right. Plus once you get your 3 set an additional 15% evis damage. I really have zero clue how much this matters but as swords you obviously evis much more esp longer fights
Longer fights, swords. Shorter fights, daggers. That’s pretty much the takeaway from this. That being said, AQ20 has the new backstab book so daggers will hurt a lot.
Im human rogue, i use CTS and brutality OH. Im in a semi casual guild but consistently top dmg meter for bwl. I think if you have very fast boss kills daggers is the way to go but if its more of a casual setting swords seems better. Great vid.
@@pixxies9158 To be fair, Sarthe actually said in his last video that his next video would be about daggers vs swords. Meanwhile snomie makes a quick half-assed video on the topic. But I still like both guys.
besides the unironical debate about stealing each other content of a 16 year old game I like the resulting competitive pushing of both youtubers which leads to better content
No. Just no. MSA and Anub in P6 temporarily, sure. But phases 1-5 maces for PvE is terrible. There aren't any that are as good as daggers or swords, the stun proc is next to useless in raids as 95% of mobs and ALL BOSSES are immune to stun. The free weapon skill doesn't make up for the fact that maces themselves are just inferior with that one exception in P6
Perhaps Sarthe made this video a few days ago but just posted it now. Regardless... who cares? Snomie has done the same. How about we just let two rogue theorycrafters/content creators post videos for benefitting the classic rogue community instead of chastising one of them for "not posting a video first".
![[DOKKAN BATTLE] Worldwide Campaign Announcement Video](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zxfEiMksZQs/mqdefault.jpg)
LOL it's been brought to my attention that someone else made a very similar video recently. I'm guessing it's not coincidence since I publicly have been talking about this video for weeks, but wtver. Now everyone get's 2 perspectives :) I do ramble on quite a bit in this video, hope you enjoy it!!
Yeah but your videos are better. Question mark?
hahaha i love how you can joke about that. Thanks again for sharing great content!
Bro, this was a very good video! I liked the input at the end by the other Rogues.
In my Guild CTS is going to Tanks/Human Warriors so yeah... very glad that I’m daggers.
Same in my guild (sans tanks), though a couple warriors run daggers. Though AQR should be going to me first (I'm the only sword rogue)
ewww wtf, im a sword rogue and in our guild the first two CTS went to sword rogues
first maladaths went to human warriors
MMA Ah, good! Hope it drops for you. Right now, all the Sword Rogues in my guild have Vis’kag. I had it in Vanilla and because the Claw or CTS didn’t drop, I went Daggers and my DPS jumped. Later on just around AQ time, the CTS dropped and I won it with DKP. I went to top DPS right away. Wish I could transfer my Vanilla gear to Classic lol.
CTS to tanks is kinda gross. Way too slow.
But human fury warriors will use CTS > ripper through P5. It's still my biggest upgrade to pair with Maladath at +20 DPS or so, where gauntlets of annihilation would be #2 around 10 DPS.
Why on Earth would a TANK want a CTS?? Even for fury prot, CTS is too slow. Not good for threat
Daggers is a much better build talent build, backstab simply is much more damage per energy over SS. But the ilevel of sword drops tends to be higher, one thing to consider is daggers tend to get given to rogues, at least the guilds i have been in, dagger drops are far less contested. When a sword drops rogues and warriors will both want to roll on it/ bid for it. This means you may get unlucky and end up waiting far longer for a good sword.
I feel like it would have been interesting to have more insight from those top parsers regarding AQ for swords vs daggers
HEY ITS Gd, swords will be good maybe better than daggers early on or about the same as dagger, then if you start zerging bosses down in 30 seconds it might start swaying back daggers, and certainly once you get deaths sting
So my take on this video is that.. if ur a dagger rogue without R14 daggers (cause R14 daggers > R14 swords), and without renetaki trinket, then there is not much difference between dagger performance vs sword performance on boss encounters.
yes actually. thats an accurate takeaway
The takeaway I see, is that in general Swords will outperform Daggers, but for "parsing", as these guilds do parse runs and kill bosses instantly, you will be better off with Daggers. Daggers both dump energy better, and is less hits for damage. That means that for a good parse to happen, you will have less instances needing to go your way than with swords. Ex: 6 back to back backstabs critting is a lot more dmg than the same with sinister strike, resulting in more dmg.
I beleive in your average guild that isnt killing BWL sub 30min, Swords are better because of how versatile they are, and shoot ahead with Maladath.
I’ve tried many times to be a dagger rogue. I have all the good daggers but I can’t get into it. I guess I’m just not a sneak-up-and-stick-it-in-from-behind kind of person. The positional requirements are a huge pain in the butt as far as I’m concerned, and it’s just not fun for me.
daggers actual work very very well on cthun, the eye is flipping around so fast, that you will never energy cap. during weakness phases in phase 2, the boss also has a fixated back side.
Good video but I would of loved it to have some more info on this topic. For example:
* Parse differences between top daggers and swords rogues currently in BWL/MC in P4 (minus R14 weapons as most ppl don't have time for that)
* Overall damage in a raid for the same above ^
* Info on how the new backstab level ("Handbook of Backstab IX" ) could be a nice DPS boost for daggers
* Comparison of daggers and swords at end game P6, which one is likely to be better overall
* More details on when/why cleaving may be better in swords or daggers depending on the situation
* Darkmantle for swords and daggers, you spoke before briefly and said swords benefits more I think!
Hope that's good feedback, I'm currently a sword rogue and looking at going daggers in P5 but I'm still unsure! I have CTS but if I go daggers it will no doubt be a nice upgrade, but considering death sting is amazing in P6 too I may stick with daggers. Being a human rogue makes it a tough choice as I have my pick of the best swords in game too.
I feel like I should point out...even if you are swords...you should *always* try and be behind a mob. Don't get your tank parry-gibbed please folks!!
That goes without saying, and parry-haste is the least of the reasons why, but when clearing trash often the only time you can cleave is to NOT be behind the mob.
What about the new backstab rank that rogue gets with AQ
the CTS thing was a meme in my guild too... Then I transferred servers so I guess it was true.
Fist weapons the best, thanks Sarthe!
sarthe, can you test an energy build? 4 set darkmantle, and 3 set stormshroud.
Nice vid man . One thing I am interested though is , why you rank Maladath > Brutality blade in terms of Mainhand weapons? I actually use Mh: Brutality blade and Oh: Maladath , cause Viskag and CTS just refuse to drop for me . In my opinion Brutality just lookes like the superior MH cause of higher damage on it ( not dps ) and having a slow MH usually means more procs when having PPM components around . But I'm interested in what thoughts you have about it
Interesting vid! I'm waiting for a seal of fate video. Very curious how that comes into play. As well as how it affects gearing, as you miss some talents like weapon expertise. =)
I got Perds and ACLG pretty early so that forced me to go daggers but I never got CHT. Always wanted to go swords though since for me its just funnier and I like the aesthetics better. Then after 5-6 months I finally got Viskags and got my hands on a Maladath (3 in our guild so far) so I could respecc. Yesterday I got my first ever CTS! (second one for our guild.) I'm a happy rogue
What UI addon are you using? I wanna set my ui similar to that on my rogue
i play alliance and yeah most rogues are daggers on my server. all rogues in my guild are daggers, we only see daggers drop no swords and if they do, they go to the warriors. Hoping to get ravencrest legacy from the AQ questline and get an AQR somehow. I hate daggers so much lol
Gotta use daggers for the rogue RP.
I also think you have to take in to account whats going to be better for you gearing wise. For instance in my guild we have a lot of fury warriors and sword rogues but only myself and 1 other dagger rogue. Trying to compete with 12+ people on swords when they drop is very hard especially since the drop chance of weps is rare. Going dagger has opened the door for me gearing wise since i only compete with one person and while everyone else is still trying to get their swords it allows me to start focusing on my set pieces
Hey Sarthe! Been watching ever since rogue became my primary alt and the toon I raid lead our second raid with. I’ve been daggers for a while, as it seems more interesting and fun for me. But I’ve rather stubbornly stuck as Seal Fate, because it feels a lot more rewarding. Have you made a Seal Fate video yet? I’ve only scanned quickly and haven’t seen anything.
I’ve ran daggers as seal fate, although the single target dps is really good, I don’t feel like the amount of crit you can get is quite good enough (with current phase gear) to justify the seal fate build throughout entire raids. If you are able to get deaths sting next phase and get that extra dagger skill and stack more crit gear, I can absolutely see the seal fate build topping some parses
Sarthe your videos are amazing, thanks again. I've been trying to tell the other rogues in my guild to try and pick up some swords where they can. Unfortunately we've had appalling luck with weapon drops, with only 2 Viskaggs ever, 1 CTS and 1 Mala. The part about people taking good items and quitting really hit home, both Viskagg rogues quit or rerolled :( We run LC so unfortunately the dagger rogues have no chance to get swords either, but I've been telling them to roll on the Claw of the Black Drake and to get themselves into Ony pugs!
CotBD is the most realistic option for dagger rogues for a trash weapon. Sword drops are too rare, they're never gonna get one realistically except Brut blade which is too weak to be worthwhile
Great video as always. I’m very close to getting my thunder fury. And when I mix it up with Maladath, i’ll hopefully be able to let you know how well it does in a future video. Maybe I’ll leave a comment and link my characters name so you can look at the logs. I do wonder how well that sword comp will do as an undead in raids w: wind fury. I’ve also been testing out builds with the poison trinket from BWL and swords when we don’t have enough shamans for every group, and I was popping some seriously good numbers with instant poison on both weapons on short fights like Vael and Razorgore.
you are a great teacher
I am a Gnome Rogue. I have CTS and Maladath but I also have a Perdition's Blade (not real suitable OH yet). Going into AQ do you think it would be worth going daggers? I am in a DKP guild so I can go whichever route I want. I am torn which way to go.
Daggers for RP.
You say it’s good to switch to swords for cleave fights, would this still apply if the best swords you have to cleave with are like Dal Rends?
no
depends on mobs positioning, if you can cleave while at mobs back its not worse then swords.
If you had the oppurtunity to get shadowflame boots would you this far into bwl or just wait for t2.5?
In 9 months of raiding ony and bwl my guild didn't see single Viskag or CTS...
FutBuckerson is a dagger rogue for life! What is the best race for rogues in TBC arena/PvP? With nerf to hardiness I may need to reroll
Undead.
TBC was when orc rogues actually started to appear
@O K a rare one, most that I knew were undead
In my guild only 1 CTS and 2 Mal have dropped so far
In ours 0 cts/0mal (:
Also gotta mention perds proc is fire so doesn't work on a lot of bwl bosses
daggers forever baby. (or at least till tbc :O )
i play dagger spec human just cause i come to guild last , so i have no chance to get some swords :D
Consumable list for AQ40 pleeeease! @sarthe
our top rogue quit after he got our only cts XD T_T
Yo Sarthe, i'm a warrior main but still enjoy your content a lot! Definetly think you're the best classic wow youtuber! Wish there was a channel of the same quality focusing on warriors instead of rogues! Any plans on doing some content focused on warriors? :D
ruclips.net/user/DamnboiTV
I enjoy Damnboi’s videos, good warrior content 😊
isnt there a backstab book in aq20, and no sinister strike equivalent? isnt that a reason, that daggers will be superior?
Um idk but theres also an evis book right. Plus once you get your 3 set an additional 15% evis damage. I really have zero clue how much this matters but as swords you obviously evis much more esp longer fights
@@ykonratev yes there's a evis book from trash in blackrockspire.
My guild is Horde and were starting to raid Unbuffed during AQ, sounds like swords would be better, correct?
Longer fights, swords. Shorter fights, daggers. That’s pretty much the takeaway from this. That being said, AQ20 has the new backstab book so daggers will hurt a lot.
Has horde I think daggers is almost always better but the difference is not big.
Im human rogue, i use CTS and brutality OH. Im in a semi casual guild but consistently top dmg meter for bwl. I think if you have very fast boss kills daggers is the way to go but if its more of a casual setting swords seems better. Great vid.
cudent hear anything what he said at 18:20 / 18:30 :(
Copied from Snomie lol..
Who cares, all wow content is most likely already been done.
@@pixxies9158 To be fair, Sarthe actually said in his last video that his next video would be about daggers vs swords. Meanwhile snomie makes a quick half-assed video on the topic.
But I still like both guys.
Actually I mentioned 10 years ago a comment about swords vs daggers you're all copying me give me credit for doing nothing plz
besides the unironical debate about stealing each other content of a 16 year old game I like the resulting competitive pushing of both youtubers which leads to better content
Man, cant wait for TBC. as a hunter.
TL;DR!?
Thank you for not pronouncing it 'ying and yang'
maces, obviously :) they stun (I think)
No. Just no. MSA and Anub in P6 temporarily, sure. But phases 1-5 maces for PvE is terrible. There aren't any that are as good as daggers or swords, the stun proc is next to useless in raids as 95% of mobs and ALL BOSSES are immune to stun. The free weapon skill doesn't make up for the fact that maces themselves are just inferior with that one exception in P6
First!
haha
3 days ago Snomie posted this exact video. Not a great look.
Perhaps Sarthe made this video a few days ago but just posted it now. Regardless... who cares? Snomie has done the same. How about we just let two rogue theorycrafters/content creators post videos for benefitting the classic rogue community instead of chastising one of them for "not posting a video first".
Yeah well someone else posted a video before him... and someone before him and someone before him. This is so stupid just stop
Yeah but when did he do these interviews?
fake news
Daggers > Swords
In my experience, 99% of sword players I come across are brainlets
and most dagger rogues are decent .
so its good player > bad player not dagger > sword in your case
@@mTheoriexboxl yeah for sure. I think swords is probably bis, but I just see way more bad sword rogues as a whole
@O K oof you sound like a salty little blue parsing sword rogue 😂😂
@O K link some of your logs and I'll determine if you can call me bad
@O K that's it? No name, you just say I'm top 5 world and that's it? Bit sus mate. Let's at least have a name then