Fairey Albacore; The Under Appreciated Slow Poke
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
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/ ednash
Ed, this video is a textbook example of why your channel is so good: a relatively obscure subject, really objectively covered, no stone left unturned and a fair-minded, informative verdict delivered.
The Albacore deserves a far more sympathetic appraisal than she normally gets.
Brilliant reappraisal of a sadly neglected aircraft Ed! The Albacore should also be remembered for its use over Dunkirk where a raid by 10 Albacores and 9 Skuas on the 31st of May 1940 blunted a German attack over the Nieuport canal. Another early action involving the Albacore was on the 21st June 1940 when three Albacores were shot down over the Island of Texel after attacking German airfields in Holland. But the Germans lost one Bf109 and another two damaged to the return fire of the Albacore gunners in the process. One of the pilots of the Albacores lost that day was Peter Butterworth, who spent the rest of the war in German prison camps, although he was involved in a couple of Escape attempts. After the war, he would become an actor, best remembered for his many roles in "Carry On" films.
Fascinating, thanks for sharing.
Very interesting, ever thought of setting up a channel, these sorts of aviation and interpersonal histories, including often little known actions?
@@grahambuckerfield4640 LOL I've told him him he should many times 😁
Greg Baughen pointed out that slow aircraft like biplanes did good service in France in 1940 when they didn't stray too far over the front line, especially when the front was fluid and German AA cover was patchy. There was even a suggestion in 1943 to revive production of the Henschel 123.
Thank you! I've been telling people for decades that the Blackburn production line was the reason the Swordfish outlived the Albacore - and I suspect there could be political reasons why troubled Blackburn were shored up during such desperate times. Did you know that the final mark of the Swordfish also had an enclosed cockpit, never seem to see pix of that.
Apparently that was only done in Canada for pilot training due to the extreme cold.
Great Video... Thank you ! (Have you done one on that magnificent horror called the "Barracuda"? I would love to see that
FWIW: It still somewhat amazes me that some _Stringbags_ -- an aircraft which I love -- were equipped with radar.
A _BIPLANE_ equipped with _RADAR._
Thanks for another very informative video! My curiousity has been raised though by the footage of Albacores in US markings. Is there another story to be told there?
I am guessing in the Pacific theatre, the red in a UK roundel could be confused with a Japanese Rising Sun, as with the red circle in the US Star and Bar.
Later the FAA in the British Pacific Fleet would for similar reasons have a blue and white roundel, with blue and white bars.
Though the footage you noticed might be from operations against Vichy French, so Allied aircraft for this standardized on the US markings due to the Vichy possibility using their own roundel.
The US markings were applied for the Torch invasion of French North Africa. The theory was that the French would be more liable to shoot at the British after Mers el Kebir. The ruse didn't work well. The French shot at everybody!
Thanks for that info !@@dennisnaylor2965
Thanks Dennis. Good yarn, and maybe a topic for Ed to explore further!
For some reason in naval wargaming the Albacore is an absolute beast for damage. I had a battleship sunk from just one flight of Albacores!
I hadn't seen them before with US star insignia. Seems it was for Op Torch to make US forces less likely to shoot them down in confusion for Vichy French. Learn something every day.
It wasn't for that. It was thought the French would be less likely to fire on American forces than British.
The big difference for notoriety could be put down to the movie, 'Sink the Bismark' which projected the underdog role of the Swordfish into common culture. Had they made a movie about Matapan it might have been different - both aircraft and in particular the crews were magnificent. Love your videos Ed👍
At last, someone who can deliver an interesting and informative narrative. Excellent narrative with clear diction, way above the standards of many videos. Well done Ed.
Wow, thank you!
Great Video. Thank you so much for covering this aircraft. Love ww2 era aviation aircraft but I have to admit...I had never heard of the Albacore. Thank you once again for this video. Great work!!!
You're very welcome 😁
I missed your posts! Hope you had a great holiday season, and I wish you and those you care about, all the best for the New Year! Thank you so much for all your work.
Being obsolescent for an intended purpose didn't preclude being adequate for secondary purposes (thereby freeing up newer planes or ships for frontline use). The B-18 Bolo was obsolete, but usable early in the war for anti-submarine patrolling, when better airplanes were in short supply and needed in combat theaters. US Omaha class light cruisers were obsolescent, but well suited for anti-raider patrolling and rescue of U-boat sinking survivors in the Caribbean and South Atlantic. US Wickes and Clemson class destroyers were obsolescent at the start of WW2, but usable for convoy duty, and eventually many were converted to secondary roles as fast transports, minesweepers, and such (I wonder if RN V and W class destroyers had similar careers). Re-purposed Swordfish likely allowed more capable airplanes to be used in roles that require those greater capabilities.
Another great explanation of what should have been a better career for this aircraft.
Well done Ed, keep up the good work.
Interesting you mentioned the Devastator - proof that the number of wings is no indicator of service life. Worth remembering the zones the FAA concentrated on for their carrier aircraft - North Atlantic (no enemy fighter), North Sea (partially covered by the RAF) and Mediterranean (where the Italians still used biplane fighters - so a biplane with STOL and long endurance isn't such a bad idea. The British and the French still used slow prop planes (Gannet and Alize) into the 80s for the same roles, though they had better attack planes to do the dangerous work by then.
Thanks for the explanation on doctrine/design choices for the FAA. Their various oddly-shaped aircraft always puzzled me. It was clear just looking at them they weren't trying to do what the Americans and Japanese were doing, despite the Brits having the tech to do so. I never understood why until now. Their entire carrier force was just a better form of catapult-launched spotter from their point of view. (doctrinally, not in employment)
A lot of It stems from the decision to assign all aircraft to the RAF, which meant that there was no Fleet Air Arm for most of the interwar period, no naval aviators and no realistic appreciation of the potential of air power within the Admiralty. The result? Unrealistic doctrine, marginal aircraft, and an entire fleet of ships with minimal or marginal AA defenses.
Considering the Fairey Albacore was supposed to be a stop gap between the retirement of the Fairey Swordfish in 1939 and the introduction the Fairey Barracuda in 1941 as the British Empire was building for a war to begin in 1942 not 1939
Thank you for covering the Albacore 😊 service.
Excellent stuff, a real eye opener about an aircraft little known to me
Very nice video Ed!! Keep up this awesome series!
You're quite right about the traditional narrative: the Albacore is only mentioned, then we're told that the T.S.R.II outlasted it and nothing about what the Albacore did. There's still no way to call it a success, but it's another example of a failure caused by specification and doctrine, not the actual design and construction, like the Defiant and the Battle.
It's kind of entertaining that the Swordfish stayed in production because Blackburn had been given it, presumably so they could have some experience of building an aircraft that was good looking and effective (relatively).
One factor rarely considered and never quantified for naval aircraft is the incidence of decklanding accidents and the ability to get the crew (the most valuable equipment) home in all weathers. I believe this was a strength of the Stringbag and possibly the Albacore (apparently not the Barracuda). Did this make the Stringbag a better fit for the Escorts Carriers?
I also note that the Stringbag was used for CAP on the Artic Convoys (when bad weather prevented) Martlets from flying which adds another string to their bow. (British Escort Carriers Angus Konstam)
As you say Ed A long shadow, thank you, for illuminating the Albacore as a worthy aircraft.
Eric Winkle brown wrote that the Swordfish rivalled the Tiger Moth for ease of flying, and would almost land itself on a carrier. Thus any other plane would feel heavy...
Superb video of a criminally underappreciated aircraft
Albacores were also utilized in the British/French invasion of Madagascar in 1942.
Would you perhaps consider making a video about the origins of Albacore and the monoplane proposal by Fairey? An interesting 'what if...'
Are there any pictures of an Albacore in monoplane form even of only in plan form?
It would be really interesting to see exactly what it would have looked like, especially in comparison to my own pictures of a monoplane variant of the Albacore that I edited in Windows Paint using common sense to come up with a probable design, if not then a definite design form.
Considering the circumstances of the times and the need to save materials and funds then Fairey would have probably reused as many parts from other planes so as not to waste time making new jigs which would use up extra materials and funds when jigs already exist for other planes in production.
Looking at the other Fairey aircraft of the time I could only see the Fulmar as using wings that were suitable for use on the Albacore being a low wing design and so I replaced the biplane wings with the single wing of the Fulmar along with the undercarriage of the Fulmar and it looks very much like a Mitsubishi A6M Zero but the engine looks tiny in comparison so I made a duplicate with a larger power plant which would have required a larger propeller and so bigger undercarriage and arrestor hook.
I then went and edited again for a third variant which was a single seat model with a tear drop canopy, I think on paper albeit digitally speaking the imagination can look upon the monoplane designs quite favourably and although it would have possibly have been much better than the biplane imho, it probably would still have been a poor performer.
Haha
Ed, that's an interesting shot at time stop 10:37, with what must be a Seafire nestling at the back of the crowd of Albacores. It would be enlightening to identify the ship and the date.
So the TL:DR boils down to
British: The Swordfish is good, but can you make us a better one?
Fairey: Sure, we've got a modern design that can replace it and bring the FAA up to the standard of its peers.
British: NO! Just make the Swordfish better.
Fairey. Ok, if you say so. *makes the Albacore*
British: What the heck is this? This sucks! We can't even carry out poorly planned and executed operations.
Fairey:...
British:... You suck!
Fairey: History is not going to be kind to us is it.
History: No. No we will not.
Fairey: *sigh *
Poor Applecores. Nice to see your defence. I noticed the planned TB for the Graff Zeppelin looked very similar to the Applecores. Fiesler something? You have a video I think.
Great content, Ed! Thanks again!
Given you can't know in advance what missions you will be tasked to undertake
Who is going to chose the Stringbag Swordfish (the hypothermic option) or the warm, if slightly control heavy Applecore?
And neither would I
But note - *There is a beautiful Swordfish which FLIES at Shuttleworth (Bedfordshire) on display days* (& loads of other iconic stuff)
It seems strange that a biplane, the Albacore, with two wings. Would be replaced by a monoplane, the Barracuda, with sometimes , no wings! Thanks for the very informative video. I really appreciate your narration. Some productions have great content but are hard on the ears.
Great video as always. And armoured carriers is a brilliant channel shockingly undersubscribed
The Sea Otter was introduced to replace the Walrus and also failed to do so. Britain seems to be good at building aircraft that fail to replace the type whose role they are to take on.
It's really a Series 2 Swordfish.
Well done once again ! Thank you !
Excellent Ed. Have you, are you going to do a video on the barracuda ???
Probably at some point, again, recommend the Armoured Carriers video on the Barra :)
It served in Indian theater; yay!!😊
Welcome back, Ed!
Have always liked this plane.
Great video, Ed...👍
"I Thought" as per my memory of this age, these Men, and their Machines? Albacore Was it was Much Loved for Gorila or Resistance Use? as I recall she had good STOL abilities, short landing and take off? as I remember told me? but I can Not recall what the Canadians, or Americans, named Her?
Kevin - Thank you.
It's a bit unfair the criticism, I can see the reasoning,the Fleet Air arm had a very successful aircraft in the swordfish, so make a more modern enclosed cockpit version that should be better
"What if we made a Swordfish, but more modern."
Great video! And Armoured Carriers is a fantastic channel. Edit: Where is the link to Armoured Carriers?
Should pop up as one of the end videos.
@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters Ah, I have those invisible.
See, you are missing out 😁
@ 8.30 - noooo not that myth again. Suffice to say, the Japanese took it as confirmation that what they were already planning way before Taranto would work.
They were being helped in their training by a brit, a lord no less! 😮
Thanks Ed.
a great very interesting video and aircraft Mr.Ed as always. was this aircraft ever equipped with a radar?was it used in any other role than the torpedo attack.thank you have a good one.
Hi Mr Nash! Happy new year!
Hi, great video. I do have a question, any further info on the albacore shown on the flight deck with British tail markings but an apparent US star on the fuselage. Keep up the great work.
Operation Torch, they swapped to US markings to make it look like a US operation as the French would open fire on Brit planes on sight
Disappointed to hear your repeat the “JIN used the attack to form their Attack on Pearl Harbor. “
That has been shown to not be turn. It might have demonstrated that all the prior work the JIN had done on the the pearl plan was viable, but it didn’t influence the plan.
Wondering why some of the aircraft featured carried the stars of the U S. Navy? Would be obvious enough, except still carry the British tail insignia, any ideas?
Great vid as per, thanks foe sharing.
Essentially, it's a dacia sandero
Excellent review.
Comparing the Albacore to the Devestator in the beginning, I am not sure the Devestator is that much better. The FAA practiced night torpedo attacks and had a working torpedo.
Part of the Legend of the Swordfish - was the fact that it was so old - and yet accomplished so much.
The Very Fact that the Albacore was newer - made it's accomplishments seem less dramatic.
History is full of Bull Shit.
The problem is - that Electrons are Complex - and fucking EVERYTHING is made of Electrons - so it's complex too.
To really understand what has happened requires a good deal of effort, more so than the simplistic version of things bandied about. Most people have no interest what so ever in making the amount of effort to understand things - that Historians routinely put into things. The Historians love History and most other people think it's boring. For most people - what's important is whether something is going to make them money or get them laid - and History is unlikely to do either.
.
If a lysander and a swordfish had a baby...
Some of the file footage in this excellent report of the Albacore shows them with 1942 American markings. Were these being evaluated for American service or being flown operationally?
FAA aircraft flew in US markings during Operation Torch; the invasion of French North Africa.
It was hoped that the Vichy French would be less likely to fire at Americans than the British.
I think the single Albacore lost was the one of the squadron commander who scored the hit on Vittorio Veneto
10:03 Stuka as a fighter… that day yes😮 10:03
Looks like a mini AN 2
I can only imagine what would have happened if the US Navy had to rely on Swordfishes instead of Devastators and Avengers as their principal torpedo bomber. Those Zeroes would have ripped them to shreds.
The influence of the Taranto attack on the IJN's Pearl Harbor attack tends to be exaggerated. The IJN did study it in Italy, but the focus seems to have been on how to modify torpedoes to be usable in shallow waters. In the event, PH was very different than Taranto: daylight instead of at night; 6 carriers instead of just 1; about 10X the number of attacking planes; air assets and facilities were attacked almost as strongly as naval assets. As a comparison: the Albacore was slower than the TBD, but other performance was similar (except longer range carrying a torpedo); the TBD was introduced in 1937, while the Albacore in 1940 (the TBF Avenger in 1942). As torpedo bomber, the TBD was similar or slightly better (the @#$%y Mark 13 torpedo aside), but if the Albacore can be said to suffer, it was from the RN's and FAA's vision of how it would be used. Pacific service probably was not much of a consideration (The Albacore's main danger to an A6M might have been the danger of the Japanese pilot laughing himself to death. Rimshot! Crash!). Where the RN assigned the scouting role to the Albacore, the USN assigned that role to the SBD ("SB" = scout bomber). Not a few planes in frontline service at the beginning and early in WW2 were obsolescent or obsolete late in the war.
18:38 Woah, is that an Albacore with US stars?
The takeaway for me is that such a simple low cost aircraft can destroy something of far greater value thanks to that devestating torpedo, one other thing, assuming the footage shown is of steel decked carriers...how did the navy approach the issue of slippery steel and rubber tyres? especially when wet? Does the deck have some grip surface applied?
Hey Ed. At 10:30 in this video is that a Spitfire on a turret mounted catapult, or just a method of storage?
Think it's one of the "hang off the deck edge" storage racks the RN used for seafires
@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters thanks.
Looks a bit like a biplane Lysander.
What Ed really wanted to say at 8'7" : "If you dimwit never heard of the Taranto attack, what the f.. are you doing on my channel?" 😏
Why did some of those Albacores have US markings?
For Operation Torch, invasion of French Norrh Africa.
@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters Thinking the French wouldn’t shoot at them?
Lol I think so that the Americans wouldnt 😁
Every military operation that has a political motor behind it of course it's going to be a cock up think of Vietnam for example...
And Afganistan.... both for the Soviets, and for us. 😒
@@lancerevell5979 20 years of pointless occupation and the yanks can't seem to pull their heads out their own asses to admit that they're made mistakes and they're not perfect instead we get them trying to dodge the question and avoid the subject they are never going to learn if they don't analyse these things...
The problem for the Albacore is thus; what did it sink? The Swordfish has been remembered as the plane which took out the Bismarck. The Albacore couldn't compete, the Swordfish is credited with the most impressive kill of the war, there was nothing for the Albacore to do which could match the Swordfish.
If you watch the film you'll find out.
The Swordfish was overrated which is why the Albacore is underrated. The Swordfish seldom had to fight in an environment with Grrmann fighters and when they did it was a disaster. Both aircraft were inferior to the TBD which suffers from a bad reputation because of Midway. Until then the TBD was very effective. Midway was disaster because the lack of coordination with other strike elements. Midway was also the combat debut of the TBF and they suffered the same fate as the TBD but the catastrophic losses suffered by the TBD overshadow this.
The FAA lagged one or two generations behind both the US and Japanese carrier aircraft. The Albacore's successor, the Baracuda, was not quite as capable as SBD. The FAA's best aircraft until the of the War were from Grumman and Vought. This trend continued post-war with the subsonic Sea Vixen introduced two years after the F8 Crusader.
The FAA’s best aircraft ? Fairey Firefly.
As a fighter the F4 Corsair ? Possibly but remember that was first rejected by the USN as unsuitable for carrier operations until adopted and modified by the FAA.
@@adriancash7063 Myth. VF-17 deployed with Corsairs on Bunker Hill on her first deployment. However, Fleet logistics were better served by a single fighter.
The firefly was not a particular good airplane. I think you may mean the Hawker Sea Fury but they were introduced after the war.
@@johnshepherd9676 no, I don’t mean the Sea Fury. The Firefly was a capable asset given the design specifications and mixed role it was tasked to perform. It was never intended to be a dog fighter and was clearly outperformed by many single seat types - but that wasn’t the question. The “myth” of the FAA’s involvement in the development into service of the F4 is certainly well documented. As is the withdrawal of VF-17 to a land base after their initial deployment on the Bunker Hill. Coincidence?
@@adriancash7063 VF-17 was the only Corsair squadron in the fleet which created a unique logistics train. The Corsair failed its initial carrier certification in 1942 but modifications were made to the landing gear to solve the tendency to bounce. That is why VF-17 deployed with Bunker Hill.
The Firefly is the final evolution of an aircraft designed for a carrier with insufficient aircraft capacity and a deficient carrier doctrine. The Corsair and Hellcat were also multirole aircraft. The final evolution of the Corsair could carry the same ordinance load as an Avenger or Helldiver.
Anyone noticed AI bots giving long comments?
I've never heard of any raid on TarANTo ever. I know of the one on TARanto. The emphasis is on the first syllable as is the case with many Italian words. (It's a lie that the stress is always on the penultimate syllable - I can provide dozens of such examples from memory if you ask nicely.)
Thats what you want in a single engined navy aircraft... a "reasonably reliable engine" and thats when the engine was better...god dam
Oh no... not that terrible canopy
Sorry but whatever the reasons, the Albacore was a failure. If it was a failure because the FAA did not require a significant improvement in performance over the swordfish, it was a failure. Was the swordfish lucky for the reputation it earned? Sure! But that doesn't diminish the misery that is the albacore.
Japanese and US naval aircraft always seem to be far better than the stuff that Fairey produced.
Incredible how the RN should have been saddled with such awful anachronistic aircraft. Without the US planes we would have had nothing.
British literally throwing all and everything into the Air. As if they were Desperate!
:)
Like many aircraft panned by history as terrible, the people who actually flew them liked them.
If it got you home, I reckon it was liked enough!
My Father flew the Albacore in English Channel operations in 1944 against German shipping. His final operations were based from the Belgium coast in December 1944.
The Swordfish relies on her Peggy
The modified Taurus ain't sound
So the Swordfish flies off on her mission
While the Albacore stays on the ground
Bring back, bring back,
Bring back my stringbag to me.
Whenever I see photos of the Swordfish flying over the North Sea I start getting cold. I can't imagine an open cockpit in those conditions.
The Pilot's probably not too badly off right behind the motor
But the Nav & Air Gunner will be brass monkeys
I wonder if brass monkeys make good aircrew ?
A lot of early war equipment gets a bad press. But it was what we had and (if used properly) they could do the job and hold the line till better kit got issued.
Brave men, well led will always make a difference
- although good equipment can help enormously of course.
Brilliant - I was always mystified why the Albacore wasn’t used in the ASW role in some tough places leaving crews frozen and struggling to catch up with carriers. I do think the Albacore was the better plane and would have made a better platform so finally I have an answer.
Splendid! The role and huge potential of radar equipped Albacores in the Med and in the Indian ocean also must be remembered. This gave the FAA a unique night attack capability, which was utilised well in the Med and with a little different circumstances also could have played a major role in the Indian Ocean in spring of 42.
Nice to see a 415 Sqn (RCAF) Albacore pictured, and really interesting to see an Albacore in US insignia (guessing Operation Torch?)...
Yup. Albacores flying off of HMS Formidable used 'American looking markings'. It's not really surprising that 'white star rondel' became a generic Allied recognition symbol by the end of the war.
Very well done! Thanks for a balance, thoughtful review.
I've always thought that the Albacore was better than most histories suggested, but that wartime circumstances somehow favored the more primitive Swordfish.
Fascinating coverage, Ed. Your summary is spot on, relevant to how many legendary beliefs are more nuisance in the cold light of facts. The bravery of the pilots on both sides should also never be forgotten., especially in the backdrop of poorly formulated attack strategies, again on both sides, by leaders in comfortable rooms remote from the action
Ed's coverage of the Kirkenes raid shows starkly how brave crews lives were frittered by politicians on the altar of expediency to 'make a point'.
[Some things never seem to change much]
I've long thought this would make the perfect warbird today. Slow, small field performance, unusual looks, compact for hangarage, 3 seats... what's not to like?
Stinger missiles for one...
@@MrBandholm I don't think you quite understand what he meant...
@@jimdavis8391 then enlighten me...
@@jimdavis8391He isn't wrong.
It's too bad the swordfish was better, though I'd imagine the albacore would be a bit more comfortable than the swordfish while flying in the North Atlantic with an enclosed cockpit
Many thanks, Ed! I have long wondered why the Albacore was taken out of service before the swordfish. Shame they didnt ask Blackburn to make Albacores!. I'm also puzzled as to why the Barracuda was ordered when there was so little of the German fleet left, the Americans were vastly overpowering Japan. The Albacore was fine - and from what you've explained - better than the sw3ordfish in all but one aspect - the gap bet6ween its ubercarriage legs, To me, the obvious answer would be to modify some Albacores to allow ASW radar to be fitted..
Finally, jets. Jets were clearly going to dominate military aircraft design post war, and the Albacore was doing a grand job for the FAA, so why not just build more Albacores, and then work up specs for an Albacore replacement after the war's ebd?
As for Churchill - a great wartime leader of our nation he was (mostly), but it seems that every time he poked his nose into military matters, the result was a disaster! It seems a tad unfair to me that whilst Hitler and Stalin rightly get criticised for theit decidedly unhelpful interferebces with their own military, Churchill seldom does.
Blackburn built Swordfish because , already in production, it was easier and cheaper as Ed Nash explains.
The contributions of the Albacore at Matapan are important as the Bismarck attack.
Jet powered torpedo planes?
Your comments about Churchill are valid but remember that history is written by the victors.
When I first came across the Albacore I had wondered why they had just enclosed the cockpit. It was not until I looked into its history I realised that there was more to it and its reputation was not deserved.
Taranto may have had a bigger impact if the second carrier had been available as was supposed to happen. One or two more of the larger warships damaged or sunk would have made it harder to make a show of force.
The Albacore wasn't perfect and was replaced by the Barracuda.
I would take a Swordfish over the Barracuda every time.
Fascinating stuff as usual. It’s nice that you found some footage of aircraft operating with the white star roundels of the Operation Torch period.
The Albacore was more attractive than the Swordfish.
Never heard of he Fairey Albacore before, but what a good looking biplane it was/is.