Total Stereo Immersion: Dual Behringer Pro-800 Synths for 3D Analog Soundscapes
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2024
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Over the past several years, Behringer has released a deluge of diverse synthesizers that pay homage to the iconic instruments of the ’70s and ’80s, remixing and reimagining their numerous innovations in analog and digital synthesis for a modern audience. Their Pro-800 introduced the world to an 8-voice polyphonic analog powerhouse that merges the vaunted character of vintage synths with contemporary accessibility, punching leagues above its weight. Daniel Fisher, Sweetwater’s synthesis scholar, envisioned something greater than the sum of its parts: authentic-analog stereo immersion. But a chorus- or doubling effect wasn’t going to cut it. So, Daniel did the only logical thing a sound hound like himself would do and built a rackmounted rig with two Pro-800 synths to play with one controller. Because each synth is completely autonomous, the sonic-sculpting possibilities of the pair vastly exceed the dimensional limits of using a single synth and stereo playback. This is true stereo synthesis like you’ve never heard it before. Fire up your best speakers or grab your headphones!
00:00 - Daniel Fisher Intro
00:25 - Using Two Pro-800s
01:05 - Different from Chorus or Delay Effects
02:02 - How I’m Performing
02:31 - Pro-800 Stereo Performances
12:18 - Dual Pro-800 Wrap-up
12:52 - Thanks for Watching!
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Which synths would you use in your stereo setup, whether it’s two of the same or a mix and match? Let us know in the comments below, and be sure to stop by Sweetwater for an in-depth look at the Behringer Pro-800 8-voice analog synth 👉 sweetwater.sjv.io/Behringer_Pro-800
There are several that should do the trick on their own: a good old XV5080 comes to mind, the Super Gemini as well, and also the Hydrasynth Deluxe has its own tricks in its sleeve in that area. I tried this stereo effect on a Summit, but that wasn’t so convincing. Anyways, any doubled polysynth with analog oscillators will probably win over those from an audio perspective , except for the Gemini that has been designed especially to provide a binaural sense. From a mix and match, a Prophet-6 + OB-6 could be interesting.
Finally! I've been waiting a long time for Daniel to do this review... Ever since the Minilogue OG was launched, he's been saying he regrets selling his old Pro One, and only then did Behriger launch its first clone. Very nice polysynths through the midi chain with these racks...
@@heliotron8042the original Minilogue may be goofed on, but I love mine
@@HiGlowie i don't consider minilogue to be a toy, i really like the shape for each wave and various other features, i even prefer the original to the xd. i just said that when daniel presented the minilogue he was referring to his regret at having parted with his pro one.
I just got a Hydrasynth Deluxe (from Sweetwater) a month ago. It has some voice panning options that I have barely touched so far - a lot of things to check out - which is the fun of it.
Daniel Fisher is slowly turning into the Bob Ross of synthesizers
Seventh of June 2024... I will remember this day ALL MY LIFE... The day my brain exploded for the first time.
Thank you Daniel FISHER.
i build my whole house out of Behringer Pro-800s
Holy shit! I'm getting 2.
you are COMPLETELY right. impossible to mimic that stereo field with effects. sounds incredible.
I like the way Daniel Fisher demos products. Usually, separate videos of main features, then one where he just jams out and gives you a good idea of what's possible.
You are right. Two of these are mind-blowing. I just ordered one of them. I might try to find a 2nd one soon. ❤
I just watch these cause I love Daniel's playing.
I made an editor for the Pro-80p on the Electra One. Now I’m thinking about creating a ‘skewed’ editor: while controlling one parameter on synth A, it changes the same parameter on synth B automatically but with a slightly different value
By far the best demo of this synth. You made it sound absolutely amazing.
My ears went on a great science-fiction sound journey from 11:00 to 11:45 🤖👍
Excellent ! 😁
That sounds absolutely massive.
Sounds awesome Daniel, cheers for doing this :)
It sounds so good in this configuration. I wish I could do this (in real time) with my P5.
Can I do this trick with only one Pro-800? Let's say I record one P-800 directly to my DAW and record the MIDI info as well, send the MIDI file from Pro Tools back to the P-800, record the audio a second time and after having done so, pan one P-800 take to the left and the other take to the right? Would that work?
Hi Wilmer. That would certainly achieve the wide stereo effect, but what I was demonstrating in the video was all the different parameters each having their own stereo perspective with the ability to tweak any parameter on either side and respond to what's happening in real time. -_Daniel_
Nobody gives me gear lust like a video from Daniel and I’m a guitarist that just dabbles in synths.
The Pro-800 might just be my next synth
This is one of the cheapest poly analog synths on the market, so why not buy 2? 👍
great stuff, you gave me this idea that should have been obvious, to try this with just one Pro800, and record separate parts and pan them... not as fun as live playing stereo but might still be enyojable :)
You could program the MIDI playing in a piano roll in a DAW, then play it back (and record) as many times as you'd like on new tracks, using slightly different parameters and panning each time. Great idea!
@@DaveMcCall yep, that's what I meant there and I can already confirm this works great! simplest ideas are the best, I don't know why I haven't thought of this earlier...
I'm looking forward to Sweetwater's Pro-800 BOGO sale! ;)
Aint happening 😂
@@Bilpokatoh it will
Notice sweetwater didn’t like or comment 😂 wonder why 😂
Daniel you’re absolutely correct…. It does sound absolutely gorgeous…. What a super satisfying splendid sound scape .
Please post more examples , as this sounds staggeringly good.
Maybe even better and richer sounding than the, CS80 , RSF KOBOL 2, JUPITER 8, ANDROMEDA A6 & MOOG ONE ?
Racking them in the Rackbrute 6U is a great idea. And you still got a little HP left for some more fun. Very cool.
Hi lordundhimself. Although everything I did in the video could be done with each Pro-800 in their original case, I was pleasantly surprised to find how quickly I could real-time edit when the two units we're held precisely in place vertically. -_Daniel_
One way to look at this is having a 16-voice bi-timbral synth for ~$800. Try two used DeepMind 12s together for ~$1300 and it gets insane sounding. Folks with an organ background tend to think in terms of layering, the ultimate in additive synthesis. Enjoying my UB-XA at the moment. Coincidence that I have the same Rackbrute and Numa 2x. Thanks Daniel!
I’m sitting between two Klipsch kHorns fantastic! Pipe organ sounds, natural, wide open clear .
I bought one from Sweetwater, looks like I'll need to do some more unboxing after all this!
I sometimes do such binaural stuff on my Prophet Rev2 16v. Sounds nice, but the Rev2 is not really the pinnacle of analog synths.
More often I do what I call ‘a tree of sounds‘:
- one synth dead center as the ‘trunk‘; the P5 with its bold sound is ideal ‘cause it is mono anyway,
- another one as the ‘branches‘; OB-X8 in ping-pong mode and full stereo spread, or a P6 with full pan spread, or an e7 with its nice stereo movement.
Mostly the ‘trunk‘ synth is more on the dark side of things with low notes and LPF, the ‘branch‘ synth with higher octave settings and a bright sound (HPF, BPF).
Really cool idea. An inexpensive way to have powerful analog synthesizer (cool how you racked them together). I use my Numa Compact as controller as well (it's great).
I've been on the fence for many months on whether to spend my money on a Pro-800 or a Solina... this video did it, I ordered 2 Pro-800s today
Honestly get a cheap solina as well. It's a great stringer even without small stone phaser. Or get a Waldorf STVC.
Wowser! Thank you, Dan, for sharing this amazing discovery.
I record the midi track as well as the audio, then play the midi and record an overdub and obtain the same effect. Obviously is cooler doing it on real time.
Hi gabo3k3k. That's a great way to generate a single stereo effect that stays the same throughout the song. But it's nothing like the thrill of adjusting any and every parameter on either side constantly, while listening and responding to the ambient results. -_Daniel_
Well I’m sold.
Even though it's digital, the DX5 is so much more than 2 DX7's when you start fiddling around with it.
sounds great. I bought the UB-XA, already have the pro-800 - now thinking of another pro-800 :D
Sweeeeeeeeet! Excellent demo, Daniel! You ROCK!
I think it's about time for a Daniel Fisher Master Class on synthesis. Synth Tips has been great but I'd pay for a serious master class to teach me the ways of a master.
Hi DAD-Music. I teach private synth lessons locally and on Zoom/FaceTime. You can contact me at:
Daniel_Fisher@sweetwater.com
Sounds great. Setting the units to two different midi channels while using a midi controller that alternates each note by channel, and panning them to opposite stereo channels will create an even more beautiful sound.
This sounds like a neat idea.
Hi paulfabian. That will certainly create a stereo effect that's different from what I did. The biggest difference between the two methods is that the "alternating note" trick will never allow a single note to have both synths playing that note on both sides. The stereo effect you will have created is only about the panning of each note. By having *all* notes playing on both sides simultaneously, you're creating stereo effects that aren't based solely on hard panning but on every subtle difference (of every parameter) on both synths. -_Daniel_
Besides Daniel‘s caveats: which midi controller can do that?
@@RayyMusik I don't know of any midi controller that can do it out of the box - but maybe there is one, but a DAW that has midi effects can do it, I know it could be done in Apple Logic Pro. There may also be midi plugins that do it. I was aware of the alternating note technique but I have never tried it. Running two synths on the same midi channel and panning them different directions is really easy whether you are using physical synths like Daniel does here or software synths. (If you want to get really fancy, you can use alternating notes and same channel different panning. Your imagination is the limit.)
hey. i like the cut of your jib, buddy.
While not quite the same, I use my Wasp and Cat synths (from Sweetwater) together, each panned a bit left or right with chorus and reverb....nice rich sound.
Hahahaha, you're right. Then the same applies to any double set of synths, provided by Sweetwater.
I do this on the hydrasynth deluxe, program the lower layer all left, upper layer all right,... beautiful wide sound scapes.
I'm so baffled with this synth.... I love mine. Maybe I should get another one...
Beautiful. 🤩
This would be a great addition to my studio.
Sounds great
Wow. This catapults the Pro-800 from "great for the money" to fantastic. I definitely will order a second one. Just a thought: They have MIDI Outs, and I know they send out CC data, so if you connect a MIDI out to a MIDI in you should be able to control both synths from one.
Hi Sycokay. That's a great idea when you need the settings of the left synth to be identical to the right synth. What I'm showing in the video is how much power you have to control many aspects of the stereo signal by making some of the parameters on the left synth different than the right synth. -_Daniel_
Thanks Behringer ❤
Great demo. Thanks Daniel
Sounds fabulous! Think I need 2 x Pro 800s! ❤ Thank you for making this video! 🎉
Really cool idea, and sounds massive!
Great video Daniel ...as usual 😎👍
Sold - have one already but this sounds amazing
this is spaced off, I love it!
This is a crazy good synth for the price. Really wild to think you can pair two for half the price of a Rev2. Also glad they made them rackable.
So good. Thank You :) .
3:00 i expected the melody from the super mario world cave stages here. great demo btw!
btw, the original was made with D-50
That is a great idea!!!! Thanks!!!!
Okay, this is really really cool.
Thank you so much for doing this for us. Ever since the Pro-800 hit the market, I've always wondering what two of them would sound like on the same patch with one panned hard left and the other panned hard right. They sound AMAZING!!!!! It's hard to believe you can get two of these synths for $800 and have them capable of sounding like a $5000 synth. Eight voices each? WOW!!!
It would be nice if you could sync the controls whereas when you turn a knob on one synth, the other synth with also automatically responds to your adjustments. I suppose this probably could be done by midi if setup properly.
Thanks, kvmoore! Locking the parameter values of both sides initially seems like what you'd want. But the wild 3D stereo ambiences are so much more fun to tweak when the left and right synths' knobs are tweaked independently. It's this independence that makes this whole rig worthwhile. -_Daniel_
That’s an amazing sound for very little money
CV in to filter from an LFO or EG with some offset/inversion to just one of the units is also a great range of stereo capabilities.
I'm not that crazy about the sound of this thing but I love Daniel's presentations and creativity. Cool idea to wire these up in stereo.
Same, I don't like the membrane buttons either and not a big fan of three segment led's but two VCO's and eight voices at it's current price is very compelling.
Adding the synths like this gives astounding results, provided you have very good amplifier, speakers / headphones that have both a good frequency and a good phase response. Otherwise the astoundingness goes down the drain ...
Ron Boots already applied this when recording my CD 30 years or so ago, with amazing sonic results on a quality system. We didn't have two of each synths at the time, except for the Korg Sigma. Instead of doubling we used layering of a mix and match of similar but different brands of synths, all fully analog, except for the D50 and SY99.
But if you have or rent a good PA system for live (JBL at the time) and a set of good headphones at home (Beyer or Sennheiser) the application you demonstrate here is so worth while!
I've tried it myself by applying multitracking, but that just doesn't give the same results.
I just double track a single Pro-800 and pan them left and right. I often do the same thing with monosynths.
Yup! Perhaps not entirely surprising that retailer shares this idea with us
Hi deastman2. Double-tracking a synth and panning them each to one side is a great trick for stereo. What it's missing though, is the ability to tweak any parameter, on either side, while hearing the exact stereo results you're creating in real time. -_Daniel_
I do that into my sampler, usually with a L/R/center 3 samples. But each sample is slightly different and L/R detuned a little. It is those subtle differences that make the interesting stereo field.
This is a great way to do it if you don’t need to hear it live and don’t want to buy another one
FIRE demo
Sounds really awesome! How do the synths have the same sounds? Do you just start with the factory patches?
Hi thimthim.
Yes, I'm starting with the same factory preset on each side, then gently tweaking parameters on either side,
-_Daniel_
ha...i bought two exactly for this....i used to do same thing with two oberheim matrix 1000s
That’s what I’m doing, the stereoping controls both or just one of them depending of what the stereoping polychainer is set to.
The master at work!
Daniel, when are you going to demo the Behringer Kobol?
The second arrived today. The difference is… tremendous. It has changed the instrument from a good one into a phenomenal one. Wow.
Awesome! You can do this with the UB-Xa too, using the double mode with same patch and panning the voices 8R 8L through the mod matrix
Hi N4505. That's a great trick to get a single instance of stereo, but it doesn't allow you to change any parameter independently, on either side, in real time. That's where most of the animated stereo magic is coming from. -_Daniel_
@@sweetwater What you could do, i imagine, to solve this is store the same patch two times in different locations. Then using both in double mode would allow the parameters of each of these patches to be edited independently of one another.
I had this on in the background and totally forgot this was a demo lol. Daniel do you have videos where you just jam for an hour on synths? There's people who would love to hear you noodling for extended periods of time while they work haha.
This is the coolest thing I've heard in my planar headphones in ages!!
Awesome!!!🌟🌟💯💯
If Daniel Fisher leaves Sweetwater, I leave Sweetwater. I know Sweetwater strives for the personal touch aspect, and Daniel Fisher is the embodiment of that.
Love that dude
I did this with Rolands Boutiques the: JX-03 and the JP-08, both in unison mode for massive synth stereo leads. Both these synths have been around a long time, and about every patch imaginable has been designed....but....Combine these two, pan left/right for just the right amount of blending into a big stereo field where one envelop is at a different time than the other moving across the stereo field in subtle ways. One LFO at a different rate than the other beating slowly across the field. Layering synths is where most truly new synth sounds come from. I also layer a DX7 with a Roland Gaia, the Gaia carries a big stereo field and the DX7 is used for clean center (middle/mono) mids and highs. Makes a nice layer of VA subtractive and FM.
if mine breaks down before two years will Sweetwater cover it with their 2 year warranty?
there's only one thing better than a PRO-800 & that is 2x PRO-800's !
I own the pro 800, and I’m very happy with it in most respects. If you need a 16 voice version of the pro 800 then of course not unreasonable to buy two of these, however, spending literally double the money for what is essentially stereo field effect might be considered to be less of a deal. The whole point of the pro 800 is that it’s amazing for the money, however, the value proposition changes completely once you buy two of them for, not to mention, taking up twice a space.
Hi xray2785. The beauty of having two of a synth modules (especially analog) is that, while they can be used for doubling polyphony (assuming the synth has a polychaining feature, or you have the hardware to do it), they also can be used for the stereo magic, and... you can simply stack two different sounds (in the way that made the Yamaha CS-80 famous). All three ways of using two of a similar synth are always available. -_Daniel_
I think the rich rich stereo magic comes from it being played as a 4 oscillator per voice… 8 voice synth .
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
*God bless Uli Behringer !*
(and Daniel Fisher, too)
You can now, maybe through a firmware update, chain them in MIDI and use one to control the other. There is also a Mozaic script (free) to poly chain two via iPad for full 16 note polyphony.
Hi kurtklingklang. Both of those are welcomed new features. But, to get the powerful stereo effect shown in this video, it's crucial that you are able to move any knob independently of the other side's knobs. -_Daniel_
This is pretty cool. I've done this with my Novation Summit, it's bitimbral by virtue of it having two Peak engines in it, and you can send each engine out to a separate output.
I'm not 100% sure, but I bet I could do this with my Hydrasynth Deluxe as well.
Yes, with that added VoiceMod section in the Hydrasynth, I was thinking the same thing.
Certainly you can do some of these tricks with a single synth, but you can't tweak multiple parameters simultaneously on the Left and Right synths unless you have two of the same synth. -_Daniel_
@@sweetwater To a degree you can on the Hydrasynth Deluxe, with the macro knobs. ;)
(But again, to a degree.)
@@sweetwater the Udo Audio Super Gemini should be able to do something similar
Ohh GOD 😮
To my ears this configuration sounds a lot better than the UBXA.
You’re exactly right to my ears also…. I can’t find an analog poly synth on you tube that sounds any better than this…… especially as NO fx were used at all .
Very very cool I wuv it
@sweetwater I thought the left hand driver on my Nighthawk headphones was shot, because when the 1 hard channel only is playing is quieter and has less frequency range - very middy. But swapping over the jacks into the cans rendered the same experience, my cans are fine. I wondered, aren't you cheating somehow to make the stereo effect sound better, volume and eq changes off cammera? So I kept the right driver unplugged and listened to just the left channel, and then tried with just the left channel (i didn't trust I wasn't getting leakage when taking driver away from my ear, unplugging a driver made that certain not to happen). And no, you weren't cheating. I don't understand how imaging can affect perception of anything but stereo width when the sounds are dialed in close - but it does other things including volume and frequency content. The section from 3:06 illustrates this quite well as synchronicity is played with.
Buy 5 Pro-800's for DTS and Dolby Digital support!
And... it'll keep your room heated during the cold months.
-_Daniel_
Uli Wake up! A PRO 16 with a klark Teknik/TC Electronics FX for $849 would set the world on fire
I guess we'll all have to start buying our polysynths in pairs now! 🙂
I just feel sorry for those folks mixing in 5.1 surround or a large Dolby Atmos system. A synth for each of their channels is going to get expensive really quick! 😏
Can you imagine how HUGE that would sound? Criminy!
Dandan, the man!
Are you in a band and if so when do they tour? Do you do any live streaming besides on Sweetwater? I can tell your a very talented musician. I started playing guitar in 73 after hearing Fripp then piano after being influenced by Vince Guaraldi and Emerson although lately its been playing and studying artists like Chopin and Debussy. I can tell you have studied classical and progressive artists. I would also be interested in finding out about any of your original recordings and purchase them as well. Cheers
An old prog and classical piano player and guitarist
Are they just on the same midi channel or did you poly chain them?
Hi eristoy. In order for the 3D stereo effect to work, you need identical MIDI going to both synths that are panned hard L/R. They are not polychained because the second synth wouldn't even make a sound until you played more than 8 notes. I'm sending identical MIDI to both sides via a MIDI Thru box. -_Daniel_
This is nice, but there really isn’t a need to use two of the same analog synths to do this. You can use two of the same - or two different- VSTs. If they are the same, retune, add modulation, and/or add analog slop. They don’t have to be hard-panned, and you don’t have to stop at two. Having divergent velocity and aftertouch settings lets you bring out one or the other. Try this with CS-80 emulations like CS-80V, GX-80, ME-80, and Arminator.
Hi SteveHofer. Yep, this is one of the many ways to create thick stereo synthesis. Here's a video I made a few years back:
ruclips.net/video/_UvUucyckvg/видео.html
But, what's unique about the rig in this video is that you can manually control any knobs, sliders, and buttons, on either synth, or both synths in real time as a performance technique. -_Daniel_
@@sweetwater Neat!
Daniel - just to make sure I understand. In your video setup; when you change a knob/parameter on your PRO-800 1, the the same values are changed - concurrently - on your PRO-800 2; is this correct? Thanks again.@@sweetwater
Hi nghf2906. Although I start with identical presets on each side, the magic happens when you start changing values differently on each side. In other words, you specifically *don't* want the knobs to move exactly the same on each side. -_Daniel_
This may be sacrilegious, but are you also able to use this and connect it directly into a DJ mixer to shape the sounds? Like route channels of the mixer out into the pro 800, then have it loop back into the main sound. Just some way that it can be used to create effects and sounds from the mix without having to use the synths
Why no Daisey chain feature to have the two use one keyboard like other Behringer synths? They have it on other synths like the pro 1. Seems like they would be competing too closely with the ob xa cheaper...
There is a function to allow additional units to be edited via one. These would run as a stereo 8 voice poly. Perhaps key assigning could be an update...
Hi TheSynthnut. Editing both synths (Left & Right) via one synth can often be a useful feature. But it completely removes the ability to tweak both sides in slightly different different ways while listening and reacting to the stereo magic you're manipulating in real time. -_Daniel_
I suppose given that you can automate parameters by midi on the pro800, you could record everything twice then pan L&R? Im trying to reason myself out of buying a second unit!
Hi simontappenden. Recording MIDI Notes and Controller Data, and then applying that same MIDI track to both synths provides only a sliver of what's possible when both synths (responding to the same MIDI track) can have all of their parameters (on both sides) tweaked in real time while you're hearing the multitude of simultaneous stereo positional effects while you're tweaking them. -_Daniel_
This is a clickbait title. But damn, then it lives up to the hype. I didn't expect it to sound this good.
Please Behringer...take two Pro 800s, put them in a box, add a keyboard ...and make one killer synth!
What exactly are your MIDI settings in this demo on both Pro-800s?
Hi andreassteiner. Both modules are set to receive the same MIDI Channel, and the controller keyboard is transmitting to both on that channel. Surprisingly, that's it. Because I took the PRO-800s out of their enclosure, I no longer had a MIDI Thru, so my controller went to a MIDI Splitter box that has two MIDI Outs. -_Daniel_
Each of my synths has its own amp. I gave up trying to run them all through a mixer into a single amp.
My question is, Why doesn't Behringer make a cheap rack mount? Those prices are insane for passive hardware.
(: