How Far Distant Can I Expect Reliable DNA Matches? | Genetic Genealogy
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- Опубликовано: 17 июл 2024
- It is said that DNA tests can trace your ancestry back 1,000 years. But how far removed can you expect to reliability connect to cousins matches?
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CHAPTERS
0:00 Intro
1:30 Can DNA Tests Confirm First and Second Cousins
3:18 Can DNA Tests Confirm Distant Cousins
4:16 How many cousin matches can you have
6:25 How many cousins have taken DNA tests
9:58 Brandenburg Case Study of DNA test-takers
11:52 Analysis of DNA matches and how they match others
22:13 DNA Test Your Oldest Living Relatives
24:00 DNA Test As Many Relatives as Possible
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2 of mine I was surprised was such a difference. They are a 2nd cousin once removed. They were brother and sister. I matched the male at 208 and his sister at only 66. I thought that was a huge difference.
My brother-in-law matches someone with a large segment, I forget how much, and my wife doesn't match them at all. Good thing she has access to her brother's DNA so she can find the 'extra' matches.
I have 2 cousins who are also my 4th cousins and she matches at 222 cMs and he matches at 34 cMs! Another half 2nd cousin matches at 10 cMs!
Andy, thanks, this is an excellent presentation that clearly explains the cousin matches. You've illustrated the relationships perfectly.
Glad it was helpful!
Great video, I have a big interest in genetic DNA and I found this video very interesting. I have been researching for over 25 years and genealogy is my favourite pastime. I look forward to watching more from your channel 😊
Glad you enjoyed it!
This one is good to watch more than once.
Thanks.
"It depends!"
Good presentation. Thanks.
Glad you liked it!
Looking forward to this.
Hope this was helpful!
Two of my 9th-great-grandparents were Robert Parke and Martha Chaplin. 63 of my DNA matches also trace their descendancy from them as MRCAs. Interestingly, Crista Cowan also descends from them, but we don't share DNA.
Before I got hooked on genealogy, I knew all 4 of my grandparents as well as all 4 of my maternal great-grandparents.
Great sleuthing. Keep it up.
Nice one, Andy. :-)
Thanks Maurice.
Thank you, Andy!
I seem to have a line of 3Cs with whom I share no DNA. I'm glad to see this as a possibility! When I do find a match with someone from that line, if I dig hard enough, often there's another line that may explain the connection.
Needless to say, it's a hazy (!) part of my family...further complication: I've neither senior relations nor siblings, 1C or 2C... so 3C matters!
This is on my re-watch list!
Glad you found this information informative.
Now I understand the concept of "shared DNA" so much better, Thank you Andy!
I'm trying to reconstruct my Genealogy tree without knowing any of my biological relatives, I'm starting to think this will prove to be a difficult task.
By the way, do you have any advice for someone in my situation for finding close relatives? I don't have any historical records or Last Names and all my strongest DNA matches are in the range of 70-80 shared CMs.
Thanks again for the video!
Patience is my first recommendation. Not everyone around the world can or has tested. However, that may change in the future.
Second, watch this series even if you're not adopted. It still applies to anyone looking for close relatives.
Genealogy for Adoptees ruclips.net/p/PLcVx-GSCjcdk1GsAs9NfLWKvACcjE3Afg
I am finding this informative. I would like to know that on our Blalock ( my 3rd and 4th g grandpa and grandma's ) I have more CM's than my older aunt and uncle show? I show a 3rd-5th cousin and my aunt and uncle show 4th-remote. Is it just the re-combination thing? If that's the case, should I too consider those various cousins more like 4th-remote then?
I have a match at 8% 558 cM , 12 segments: since the match is on both sides ancestry claims the match is a grand nephew or great grandnephew. Does this mean a grandchild of either my sibling or my aunts or uncles?
I share 257 cM/16 segments with a 3rd cousin and 66 cM/6 segments with one of his daughters and 217 cM/12 segments with his other daughter. The 257 is outside the range of a 3rd cousin and the 217 is outside the range of a 3rd cousin once removed according to DNA Painter. Their ancestor, my great granduncle, moved to Oklahoma from South Carolina around 1900 and no contact since then to the best of my knowledge.
I have one DNA match that so far I found 11 connections with. I stopped looking at their tree in case I found some more.
Oh, wow.
This was interesting. You and I connect and I have Barton connection as well through Jarvis Greene
Cousins (8th or 9th?)
@@FamilyHistoryFanatics we are 6th cousins Common Ancestor Jarvis Green and Sarah Griggs
@@FamilyHistoryFanatics I descend from Reverand JW Greene.
One thing I've started to do is find genealogy books or family bibles of surnames then make separate Ancestry trees for them. This helps me find descendants since on my father's paternal side, my closest cousins would be 3rd cousins or equivalent.
Be careful with those published genealogy books. They might not be as accurate as the ink on the paper suggests. Check out this video to learn more ruclips.net/video/73Cnkvh3tmk/видео.html.
Lots of stuff I didn't know. Some I did like my mom and grandma have fairly significant cM matches that I don't have at all and vice versa.
I only recently decided to delve into my Ancestry DNA matches more thoroughly primarily because of Thru Lines and some supposed ancestors that I have some skepticism about.
But one particular project has been very significant because my given surname (back to my great-great grandfather) is not the same as the huge majority of my Y matches including Big Y. Those are almost 100% CHANDLER.
BUT the documentation indicates that the mother of my great-great grandfather was of the family that is my given surname. In other words it is likely she gave him her maiden name as his surname. And when I see the ThruLines for matches to her probable parents, her probable paternal and maternal grandparents the huge numbers of those matches to me increases the probability that my theory is correct and for me to research those lines would be productive and not wasting time. That those people are my ancestors and kin and just as valid as any other of my families.
And without delving further into my Ancestry DNA matches I would not have that certainty. I would still be on the fence about it. Which helps because I am the Administrator of my given surname's FTDNA DNA Project! lol Although we do have two very able and more productive (than me) Co-Administrators who have done a great job. They are both Y matches to my given surname.
Thanks for this comment. Glad I could share something new and review what you knew.
After reading your comment, I can only state that genetic genealogy is amazingly complex, which is why I love it. I love solving puzzles and mysteries.
@@FamilyHistoryFanatics Yep me too. I even like doing those Logic Puzzles you can get in the drug store sometimes with the crosswords, Sudoku, etc. I try to create different methods of figuring them out. I don't use the little charts they provide with them. I have wondered if there might be a way of devising a similar system for genealogy problems but there are probably too many variables crossing over into other categories to devise something that simple.
At third cousins 10% of your biological relatives don't match. At 4th cousins half of them don't. After that it drops rapidly, in most lines. However in my experience some lines handed down their DNA far more often than others, while others hand down little DNA and if you're lucky you find 6 or 10 matches. who are 4th cousins.
Farther back than 3rd cousins it begins to take more work to find out how your related. Past about 1830 there begin to be dead ends in your own and others peoples' trees, beyond those who were adopted or have adoptees in their immediate family.
Figuring out how you are related requires good trees for yourself and your matches. The DNA can't tell you much without them. Past 1800 you also begin to run into ancestors from places where good records weren't kept or aren't readily available. And I often have to trace other peoples' trees for them.
Another problem is that if you descend from genetic bottlenecks, eg, places where small numbers of people immigrated and intermarried, like New England, or Quebec, or Irish Quakers, you may have to do many trees to figure out how a piece of DNA is related to you, because you need to whittle down the shared ancestors who don't appear in all the trees, AFTER you trace out the trees to include all the shared ancestors.
Amazingly enough, this all seems to be exactly what this man is saying! I'm used to people in my genealogy forums spouting absolute nonsense. Wow, I wish it told us who he is!
I am finding there may be special problems with ancestors who came from southwestern Germany. These people began to come to the U.S. after 1700. Most of my DNA matches connect around 1600. Already we have trouble. Sometimes records exist online for Germany and they're complete, more often not. And Switzerland, a lot of people from that area started out as Swiss or the families spent time there. I'm talking about a region called the northern Kraichgau in Baden-Wurttemburg, the strip of Rhineland Pfalz between the Rhine River and the forest line, the BAsel region of Switzerland and its central cities. Help me, Jesus. People moved around a region 30 to 50 miles in diameter like jumping beans, born 30 miles from where they married and a different child born in every town. And there appears to have been a ferocious amount of intermarrying, it makes New England genetic genealogy look like a piece of cake. To top it all off, small segments in Germany are more regional than genealogical, and they point to the entire region where people speak Allemanic dialects, which also shares a more recent migratory religious history not helped by economic problems during industrialization. Specifically the Swiss border appeared to be imaginary to people who lived within 200 miles of it. You know how in Heidi people are up and down the ENTIRE Rhine River, including the portion south of Lake Constanz, all the way to the middle Rhine and its tributaries, in search of work? That was normal life. In America small segment matches are more likely to be 4th and 5th cousins.
Wow. Thanks for taking time to share all of your insights. Feel free to recommend me in the genealogy forums. I can't do it as there are rules against self promotion.
That with envisioning the 10% is very helpful. My Grandmum's cousins daughters don't match with my dad (well, but one, who has a small slice).
MyHeritage found me another cousin in the 3rd to 5th degree. We have two rather large chunks of identical DNA - large compared to the usual salic-frankish slice we all share in the regions of frankish conquest.
Her dad's mother's name is identical with my grandmother's name, and her dad's family name is identical with the familyname of my grandmother's grandmother. AND with the mother of my grandmum's granddad. AND with the grandmother of my grandmum's granddad.
So I thought: ha, that will be easy to link our trees. I did my match's dad's 5 generation fan. Turned out we're not related. At least not in the past 5-6 generations. But we are related once in the 8th and once in the 10th generation. And in searching for some additional relationship on the female side in that village he is still living in, I came across two families I had never even thought about of being specially related to us. Turned out our forefathers took their wives from those two clans. Especially daughters and granddaughters of a couple that had been dispensed in 1720 for being cousins in the 3rd AND the 4th degree. Finding that out was quite an interesting hunt.
That fantastic I share DNA with all my maternal 1st cousins, 1st cousins once removed, 2 cousins, and 1st cousins 2nd removed and 2nd cousins 1 removed. Also majority of 3rd cousins. I don’t have any paternal 1st cousins, I have 2 1st cousin 1 remove,unknown of other cousins on dad’s side. I have some 2 cousins 2 remove on my mum’s side. 4th and 5th and 6th cousins I don’t know?
In my family tree my great grandmother's parents were 2nd cousins once removed. My great great grandmother's grandmother was also a member of that surnames family and that grandmother's grandmother also had that same surname so there are 4 times in one line that the surname shows up.... many of my dna matches belong to this line where the surname repeats multiple times. The ancestors on this line came to America in the early 1700's. The surname is Sharp or Sharpe can you tell me how many Sharp matches I can expect to have? Some dna would be coming down from males and some from females with the same surname. There are also sets of brothers and sisters that married brothers and sisters of another surname whose children are more like siblings than cousins.
Does this breakdown suggest that we can guess at potential half-relationships or double relationships for 3rd or 4th cousins, on a statistical basis?
For example, if I find a large cluster of 4th cousins, more than I might expect to have matched, could this suggest may be worth investigating this group as potential half-third cousins or double (distant) cousins?
Methinks you're on track. In one segment of my family, I've 50+ cMs with more than one match, where the closest possible relationship is 5C - but: there are 4 or 5 people in their tree who share grand or great grandparent- i.e. cousins marrying - & they all add up! Also, if you're related to someone in more than one way, it adds up. The higher numbers of cMs are a red flag. (Look for the video on "pedigree collapse". )
Some of my matches have trees that I label as "soup": I'm related to so many people in them, & from different lines of my family, that all I can think of doing, is clicking on shared matches, to see who I actually share DNA with. Not always what I expect!
Honestly, when you use the shared cM tool and enter in the amount of shared DNA, there's such a range of what '4th cousin' could be. For instance, if you shared 60 cM, you could be Half 3C 3C1R Half 2C2R 2C3R22%3C Half 2C1R 2C2R Half 1C3R
4C Half 3C1R 3C2R
5C3R 6C1R 6C2R 7C 7C1R 8C 6C 5C 4C1R 5C1R Half 3C2R 4C2R 5C2R 3C3R 4C3R
Half 2C 2C1R Half 1C2R 1C3R
So, if you have a cluster of '4th cousins', strive to see how they relate to each other and where their common ancestors are located. Then you can build a WATO tree with you as the UNKNOWN to figure out how you fit into the tree. ruclips.net/video/d6LxMH0zS54/видео.html
I have ancestry. My half brother wants me to find his fathers side of family. I have one person that is 1742 cm 25 per cent Dna. Can you tell me how she would be related
I do not match a half second cousin whereas my two full dna siblings match the half second cousin around the 150cM range…..this was on Ancestry…could it be the timber algorithm…looking at charts on dna painter, i think i saw a half second cousin can be as low as 10 cM
ok so my moms cousins are my 2nd cousin? and their kids are my 3rd cousins??? and what is a Removed?
Interesting....I have cousins I match with (2C1R and 1C1R)...They are 3rd cousins to each other but they are not a dna match. My daughter is also his 3rd cousin (to my 2C1R) but they don't match, yet my son, sister and my niece do match him. All my other matches seem to be 4th cousins or further (I can't connect them yet), so I have no other comparisons.
When we start moving into 'distant' matches category, we don't match everyone we 'could' match on paper. That's why it's so important to research ourselves and our unknown close matches to create a family tree based on our relationships to each other. Good luck.
Question: I was having issues in comparing my DNA kit to others. There were apparent matches but they were not called. I ran my kit against my kit, and on the chromosome I questioned, they said I was low match to myself! Same kit. So, how does this happen and how I can trust any DNA matching?
I contacted GedMatch and all they did was give me gobbelty goop no answers. Absolutely refused to answer this question when asked several times.
Can you send me the kit number so I can take a look www.familyhistoryfanatics.com/contact
how is it that Cinco shares more DNA with Ivy than Andy does,??
Why are the relationships written from larger to smaller and overlap? 3c/2c2r
3c1r/2c3r
From an average shared amount, 3C share the same as 2C2R. Other than that it is just the programmers preference.
I have a 2nd cousin once removed on my fathers maternal side, which I don't share DNA with. Which I find very bizarre. My sister matches him at 173 cM | 2% shared DNA & my dad 285 cM | 4% shared DNA
My wife and her brother have similar situations. It's likely that you received more of your mother's DNA than you father.
@@FamilyHistoryFanatics I think it's more the case I've inherited more of my dad's paternal Eccles side. As my matches are higher than my sisters.
What will this look like when say the Smith brother and sister marry the Jones brother and sister? Instead of the cousins sharing only one set of grandparents, they share both. That's what my father's family is. The two families had ranches separated by the county road. A brother/sister sibling pair on each side of the road. I hope that makes sense because without fail people think there's somekind of "inbreeding" but it's not. Anyway, I appreciate all your information. Thank you.
What about a 1st cousin once removed? Is that considered under the 1st cousin relationship? Which would be a child of a grand uncle or grand aunt.
I would put a 1C1R not under the 1C relationship. It falls more with Great-Great-Aunt / Uncle † Great-Great-Niece / Nephew † Half Great-Aunt / Uncle † Half Great-Niece / Nephew † Half 1C 1C1R
Sir what about 1500 years.We claim descent from sayyid naqavi tribe.So we claim to be descendants of the greatest holy prophet(pbuh).So is it necessary that we must match other sayyid naqavi claimants within 1500 years
Does anyone know if you can search via ethnicity in ged match? Like if I want to see all the people who I'm related to who have certain ethnicity e.g. Lebanese?
Probably not. But I would advise against don't ethnicity searches as the reference populations are not large enough to help you find all your matches. Instead, do DNA match research.
I was wondering how you figured out the exact number of cousins you have as 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.
Exact number? This is where you will need to build a family tree and count.
Great video. I would have liked one more column in your chart. Multiply the Probability times the number of people who tested. That would show how many people you might actually find via a match. Thanks
That's a great idea. Sorry I didn't think of it.
Most distant cousin match that I can find a common ancestor with is a half 6th cousin. Her 4th great grandfather is my 4th great grandfather half brother. Guest he'd be my half 4th great granduncle. Probably the worst uncle I have since he fought for the Confederate
I don't judge ancestors and their actions. I leave that to God.
@@FamilyHistoryFanatics It is what it is. Yes I have shameful people in my lines. I take it as a grain of salt. And it makes things more interesting. And we can't change history.
Will DNA companies share data. I am on “My Heritage” but my niece is on “Ancestry”
Your niece can share her DNA to Ancestry. You can't share your Myheritage test to Ancestry because Ancestry doesn't allow imports.
I have a second cousin who is connected by more DNA than my 1st cousins...how?
Have you looked into the posibility that your 2nd cousins famiilies going back had closer cousin marriages than the other side? Did they come from an area where it was common for cousins to marry each other? First and second cousin marriages will make the DNA centimorgans higher than if your other side married people they are not related to.
I share more DNA with my mom 1st cousin more then my 1st cousin but to be fair her mom and my mom are half sisters so I guess that makes her my half 1st cousin.
I have third cousin who is my third cousin twice. His grandmother was 1st cousin to both my grandparents - my dad’s paternal grandmother’s brother married my dad’s maternal grandmother’s sister
The first answer ist that the amount of shared DNA between 1C and 2C is a range. So 1C is 396-1397 while 2C is 41-592. There's a bit of overlap where a 2C could have more DNA than a 1C and that's the nature of recombination. ruclips.net/video/deVFRBA4zlo/видео.html and ruclips.net/video/-f7VUPmgy2U/видео.html
The other possibility is that the 2C is related to you in multiple ways so you have picked up more cMs than the 1C. ruclips.net/video/Wlq_a-gdf9k/видео.html
Maybe this doesn't apply to you (because you are very knowledgeable and an expert at genealogy), but there may be missing people from your family tree that you just don't know about, either because no one in a certain branch has tested and/or they just don't match to you (I'm talking about the more distant cousins here)? If they also haven't built a family tree (especially if they have tested and aren't a match) then they may exist but you just don't know about them to include them in your statistics.
Also the further you to back in history when records might have been harder to come by the bigger chance there is of missing someone (although you'd think that with censuses being available, especially in the US this is less likely). I've found, especially where one census or more are missing then you can be unlucky and someone was born just after one census was taken and moved away from home before the next available record comes along (though if they were staying with family, say aunts/uncles/cousins in the vicinity maybe it's not too implausible to think you'd pick them up again).
All in all this is a great explanation, but I think you aren't really explaining that these are averages and so it varies a lot, and with such a small sample size I'm not sure that apart from the %s for the close relatives that you're very unlikely not to match apart from noticing that the more distant the cousin the more likely you are not to match there is much to be said about these stats. What about the cousins that don't match either of you? I'm not sure the DNA sites, definitely not Ancestry at least, tell you that someone in your tree has tested but don't match you, I'd love to know this information as well as those that do.
Surely this is possible, although maybe it would make people who don't have the knowledge from this video that they aren't related and so not add them to the tree (a non match doesn't necessarily mean you aren't related, just that you don't share enough DNA for a confirmed match to be specified, whereas a match of a certain number of cM does, to a certain extent). Couldn't there also be misreads during either the processing of analysing of the DNA? I'm sure this must happen occasionally.
You have offered additional considerations when it comes to distant relatives and DNA matching. I strive to give a simplistic answer to a complicated question. That way I don't completely lose the average viewer. The comments section is the goldmine for additional discussion of the complexities.
What is WATO?
What Are the Odds? It is a tool to look at multiple people who share a common match to determine where that match might fit into the family tree.
@@FamilyHistoryFanatics Where is the W.A.T.O. tool?
Wow! 10th Cousin? You must have a humongous tree!
More humongous line. Some lines extend far back. Others not so much.
Need to contact Andy about an in-person Talk to my group
Sadly, I'm not able to do in-person for the near future. But if you want to do a virtual talk or something in 2024, the reach out at www.familyhistoryfanatics.com/contact
I have some distance cousin from Mali and France not sure how we are connected
To find out how they are related, you need to use your closest genetic matches to build your family tree. ruclips.net/p/PLcVx-GSCjcdmsw25mbI-wJin_9_9QQUzI
Then, you can triangulate your distant matches to the known close matches to determine how they are related. GEDmatch is a platform that helps with triangulation but not everyone has moved their DNA from their company of choice to that platform. ruclips.net/video/ceYGv6RNfDE/видео.html
I wish people would take dna tests if you provide the tests for them. I have one who wants me to pay HIM to take the test, how do I do that?
If you paid for the test, that's 'paying him.' Outside of that, this person is putting up roadblocks for their individual reason. Sorry to hear that.