Cernunnos: Looking Every Which Way
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Cernunnos is probably the most famous yet least understood of the Celtic gods. Like the other Gaulish gods, he's left us no mythology, only images. If we want to know what sort of god he was, then, there's no alternative to sitting down with those images and looking closely. When we do, we discover some amazing things, the most important of which is that what we thought about him was wrong.
Please note that I am dealing with the Gaulish god Cernunnos, not the Wiccan Horned God who sometimes goes by the same name.
An article every student of Cernunnos should be familiar with is Bober, Phyllis Fray. Cernunnos: Origins and Transformation of a Celtic Divinity. American Journal of Archaeology, 55:1 (Jan., 1951), 13-51. She surveys earlier views and then gives her own. She ends with a catalog of artifacts that are either images of Cernunnos, or that have been suggested as connected with him. There have been quite a few images found since she wrote, and I disagree with her on some, but she gives detailed descriptions of the images she includes, so the catalog is very valuable. The article is available on-line at www.thelapisgat....
I've also broken this video into these parts:
Part 1: • Cernunnos: Looking Ev...
Part 2: • Cernunnos: Looking Ev...
Part 3: • Cernunnos: Looking Ev...
Part 4: • Cernunnos: Looking Ev...
Part 5: • Cernunnos: Looking Ev...
Part 6: • Cernunnos: Looking Ev...
Part 7: • Cernunnos: Looking Ev...
Part 8: • Cernunnos: Looking Ev...
They've been gathered into a playlist as well:
/ plnustkf7o5t8fotz-tjle...
I'll eventually be posting the script on my website, along with photo credits. Wherever possible I've relied on Wikipedia Commons. The lower quality black and white pictures come from the original academic publications of the artifacts.
Sorry about the sound quality. I don't have a very good microphone. If I get a better one I'll rerecord this.
If you like what I'm doing, please subscribe.
When I was little, we went to Ireland often as a family. We rented a house that sat close to the sea, right over an inlet that would fill with water at high tide. Across the inlet, there was a green hill, often full of sheep. I remember standing at the edge of the water one day, watching the sheep graze and move together as a herd, when I saw what must have been the shepherd. The shepherd saw me, smiled and gave me a friendly wave - as I waved back, I noticed something different about this man. He had horns. I was not scared at all - as a young kid (I was probably 4 or 5), it was more of a curiosity to me than anything strange. I never forgot this.
Years later, I was traveling with my sister, and started to tell her about what I saw. I said that I knew it might sound strange, but when I was in Ireland I saw a man with... and before I could finish my sentence, she said, surprised - 'A man with horns?'. We were both laughing, and shocked that we had both had this mystical experience.
I don't know what to call what I saw, but Cernunnos has been the only thing I have come across that seems to fit the description!
+tactteam00
so cool!
i'm suprized you commented on this video, it doesn't seem like he knows what he's talking about. seems more like an illuminati theorist than anything if you ask me. From what i've heard Cernnunos is a god of many things, Woodlands, the hunt, and the underworld, etc.
I think he is an ancient representation of the constellation Orion. Throughout History, people have been much more right brain-skilled, so (just like when we were kids and saw particular forms in the clouds) they recognized shapes in the stars. Even the zodiac signs today still reflect that: "Taurus" is indeed a bunch of stars that can be assembled into "a bull", with enough imaginative ability! ;-)
I saw a bad ass version of him. He appeared to me once about a week ago. Suddenly before me stood half man and half deer. Big antlers that were razor sharp, muscularly solid, had the skin of a deer, humanoid head (nose wasn't human like) had two arms, two legs (the skin darkened a bit more brown) and he was ready to fight. The only description I could find was that of Cernunnos.
@@DragonFire-xi9dc Amazing!
He's also consistently accompanied by the stag and often by a bull as well. I don't think it's fair to say the animals accompanying him are simply there for ornamentation. I strongly suspect that they are symbolic and play a role in characterizing the deity. The torc, the purse, and the bull are all representative of wealth. In Irish myth, the deer is characterized by its association with the otherworld. An otherworld which, through its association with burial mounds and with a class of entities often seen as omens of death, can be reasonably assumed to be analogous or reflexive to the Greek and Roman concepts of the underworld. If this is relevant, and I think it is, it reinforces the god's association with the underworld, which you yourself have pointed out.
Good call on the stag/Otherworld connection. It's also found in Wales, at least in the First Branch of the Mabinogi. I wonder if we could then oppose it to the bull, which as a domestic animal would represent _this_ world.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 In a sense, yes. The otherworld at times corresponds to the underworld but at others corresponds to the divine unknown as encountered in the wilderness. This is demonstrated in that the otherworld can be entered in many places. Tombs, ruins, and caves, certainly, but also at sea, and in the forest. Cernunnos is a god who bridges this world and the otherworld.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 This may in turn shed light on his association with Hercules, who may be representative of the the heroic qualities of many Celtic figures whose adventures take place in the otherworld. But I might be reaching a bit at this point.
I realized recently that except for Charentes and Lyons he is never accompanied by a stag without there also being a bull. With the Charentes image, I suspect that he didn't have antlers (very hard to do in a 3D image, unless you have ones made separately, such as as Condat, Autun, and Sommerecourt), and the deer in his lap was there to identify him as Cernunnos. The Lyons image is very classicized, and can serve as an exception for that reason; in it he still is accompanied by the dog and the snake. I think that with the stag/bull pair we are looking at wild/domestic, and at Lyons this is satisfied by stag/dog. The Lyons cup, which is otherwise so similar to the Gundestrup image, may indicate that the bull isn't very important, though, and, as I suspect, may on the cauldron be there for decorative reasons, especially since there are two of them in complementary positions.
And he's lord Shiva
Why can't he be both? Hunting, to the celts, was commerce; they were an agrarian society for hundreds of years. To them, hunting would be a form of economic prosperity as much as livestock. You don't eat your livestock, that's your product; you mostly sell them. Furs, pelts, horns and antlers were often used by the Celts for clothes, jewelry and trade; and even in this century these items are still big business. Additionally, deer and elk have always been a farmer's head ache; they eat and trample their crops, and because they're wild sometimes they can even endanger humans if they become too acclimated to their presence. It would therefore make sense for a deity of hunting to be conflated with life and death: if your crops fail, you're fucked. If a wolf snacks on your cattle, you're fucked. Hunting wasn't just a past time or a means of meat to a farmer: it was home security and an economic investment.
it's fundamentally about electromagnetism and it's field
Ancient civilizations weren't such materialists, for fuck sake! :-) This "post-modern mind" can only "think" in terms of 3D, practicality, efficiency, utilitarianism, convenience.... We no longer feel genuine "Awe" for something that is BEYOND our everyday material reality. And these people obviously still had the capacity to venerate "the transcendent". So don't pretend like you understand what they were expressing. Because you don't. It was very likely the constellation of Orion, which is still amazing and impressive these days. But I guess you never go out at night to simply gaze at the sky and fully realize The Mystery beyond everything we think we know? There was a time when the nights weren't lit up by an overload of artificial light.... so just try and imagine our ancestors' experience of the Night Sky when everything around them was pitch black... ruclips.net/video/zdosKWW2YZ0/видео.html
@@arcadianwings2662 I think you're wrong, because not caring about things like crop yield and food storage as a sure fire way to starve come winter. Even a few generations backs they were more self-conscious of things like this than we are now.
IggyTthunders Of course, fair enough, you make sense indeed. My apologies for the way I reacted to you, I feel a bit embarrassed looking back at my poor communicative display. 🙂 I’m sorry about that. I don’t know what mood I was in, but it had nothing to do with you for sure. 😉
IggyTthunders In retrospect, I suspect I was unconsciously LOOKING for Orion references, because I was actually looking for the information I am looking into nowadays. ruclips.net/video/IX25Ge5Ja3U/видео.html
it's informative, but you might want to run the audio through a noise reduction program
I had a sucky microphone. I have a new one, and hopefully things will be better in future videos.
This was a great in-depth presentation with compelling evidence. I am curious to know your interpretation of the "Gaulish Apollo" so to speak, and the nature of Lugus, Maponos and Belenos.
I have also read numerous theories, especially those that interpret the Gundestrup cauldron, assume the existence of a Esus-Cernunnos deity, where he is Esus in summer and Cernunnos in winter. From what I have seen in your video, and I might be wrong, you seem to link Esus and Cernunnos but do not equate them.
I'm in the process of making videos on Celtic deities, starting with the Gaulish ones, and I may eventually get to the ones you mention. I've gotten bogged down on Smertrios, and I really must get going on it.I've never heard of the Esus-Cernunnos theory before, but as a first impression it seems too clever by half. I've never seen such a thing in any Indo-European culture. The only link I see between the two deities is that they're both on the Pillar of the Sailors, and would therefore both have been worshiped by some of the same people. But Esus is found with Cernunnos nowhere else, so I don't think there's any evidence for any connection.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 The Scottish tales of the Cailleach Bheur come close to that. One version has her revert to a beautiful girl in spring but then she sleeps all through summer and when she awakes at the start of winter she is an old woman again.
Esus though appears an earth deity like Ogmios and the Irish Dagda.
What evidence do you have for Esus as an earth deity? I'm intrigued by him, and would be interested to hear more about him. The Dagda isn't an earth deity, though, he's the classic Indo-European thunderstorm deity. In the Dindshenchas of Mag Murithemne (celt.ucc.ie//published/T106500D/index.html), he kills a sea monster with his club. Gwynn translates "lorg anfaidh" as "mace of wrath," but it could equally be translated as "thunder club."
Interesting interpretation of visual art. I'm not at all sure all this can be supported on the minimal evidence, however. Thanks for the thoughtful investigation; it will be my springboard.
THANK YOU! I agree that the position of animals on this artwork does not define the status of a deity or his/her role. I think he's pushing it a bit with his theory.....
Your research and theories are fascinating and refreshing. Great work! May I ask, what are your thoughts on Cernunnos being essentially an Earth God, a figure somewhat like an Earth Father? I've been reading about this in a few Celtic Paganism and Wiccan books, and I wonder if this view is reconcilable with Cernunnos being a Liminal God?
Brian Barretto The idea of Cernunnos being an Earth Father when seen from a Wiccan point of view is interesting. The Wiccan deity associated with the Earth is most commonly the Goddess. Perhaps the idea is that Wicca is an "Earth Religion," so its deities must be connected with the earth. Or perhaps the postulated connection with forests and animals makes it seem that way. I don't know. But I don't see it as compatible with Cernunnos as a liminal god.
Ceisiwr Serith Thank you! I find it fascinating that the image of an Antlered Lord of the Forest and Animals has taken a hold on the psyches of modern pagans and artists. Even Hayao Miyazaki drew inspiration from this concept of the Deer God of the Forest in his film "Princess Mononoke". I know it probably has very little to do with how the Gauls worshiped Cernunnos.
+Brian Barretto Notice the OC in the middle of his forehead 1:35 like what Hermes uses it signifies Taurus. You also see the name ESCOLIVES learn to see names as describing program function see them geometrically/numerically/etymologically. ES CO LIV ES remembering the Keanu started out dyslexic(quite the advantage as this is the MOS of the COS(CHAOS) it's why they call it the Tracer program when deciphering names I'd look both backward & forward. Why do you think they call it CERN symbolically it means to interfere with creation/time space continuum & HAARP symbolizes interference with inward thought/praying like what Sidious did(you really must learn the symbolism). Heck etymologize Keanu's name & Hugo tell me if they fit their characters it might help to look up the no weaving spiders sign at bohemian grove & many of their other buildings. LI MIN AL means LI=powerful(it's why LI LI TH(two LI = hex like hell see numerically two l=24 like Thor/Zeus HA(means to know)MM(M or theory of everything 13x2 for 26 hexed Z's)ER means to do I didn't do it backward it would take forever if I started dissecting everything I put up. LI is also 21x2= 42 like SIN or SI=look up silicon notice atomic weight then look up N Nitrogen do same. 42 also Hitchhiker's Guide answer(They show you in the Matrix that Neo figures out that all realities are AI). Same reason Chaos/Mess was defeated by Cronus(ORDER) & Zeus(ZOOS the S is for separation or reversing it like OS S in the middle for Yin Yang of creation it's why Cronus would represent O SI R IS & ISIS could put the pieces back together & why S ET(ET means alien to) had the program function he did. I do what I do because I have no choice & I am the Mastro(Master)LI etc.... Anyway this probably went way over your head no worries if so carry on. OH but hey really you should look into what I have put up if you really want to know what this is but be warned it isn't all that pretty & it may very well get you compartmentalized/left with no real option/choice.
Thank you for the very thorough video.
Awesome work well done!
Thanks.
This is an excellent documentary!! It is very historically and factually based,thank you for posting this! I actually have 2 rings made of silver with Cernunnos as a sigil...very cool and both from the Gundestrup Cauldron ...they are modern pagan designs using the ancient and unknown god..modern pagans don't understand this.
He holds time in his hands
Yes i do
@@geodude6244 oh you do? Hmm ......
The three faced idol is most likley a depiction of Lugos. He also had a connection to Mercury through Interprato Roma
The connection between the Mercury and Lugos is, as far as I know, based on two things. First, the Irish Lugh, cognate (at least etymologically) with Lugos, who has the title "Samildanach," "Of Many Crafts," being seen as similar to Mercury's connection with manufacturing. I think this one is a bit tenuous. Secondly, there's Caesar's comment that Mercury is the most worshiped god among the Celts (come on, guy, couldn't you have helped us out and given the Gaulish name?), and inscriptions to Lugos being so widespread (and his even having Irish and Welsh cognates). I'm not convinced either way by this, and prefer to remain agnostic. However, to support a connection of Mercury with the tricephalous there's the image I showed with both the ram-headed serpent (Cernunnos) and a rooster (Mercury) on an image of the tricephalous, and another tricephalous with Mercury and a goddess (Rosmerta? It's not clear). So if we can identify Mercury with Lugos, we can identify Lugos with the tricephalous. However, that then raises the question of the connection between Lugos and Cernunnos. They may have been different names for the same god, or different gods with similar attributes in different parts of Gaul. That both are widespread argues for the former, but I'm not comfortable going that far. It might be more likely that the idea of triplicity was something that could be added to an image to represent something, which may have varied from case to case. We have the bull with three horns and cranes from the Pillar of the Sailors, which also has a Cernunnos on it, who is, however, not three-headed/faced. So triplicity can have more than one meaning. It's up in the air, then, although your suggestion is certainly plausible. It would mean a lot more evidence to convince me of it, however.
Thanks for the comment, and giving me something to think about (as if I needed more on things relating to Cernunnos).
@ceisiwrserith2224 Honestly Thank you, I truly appreciate your reply. I've been working on a research paper myself and your work has been very helpful.
@bennbastard5082 Glad to hear it. You might also want to look at a paper I wrote that's here: www.ceisiwrserith.com/therest/Cernunnos/cernunnospaper.htm/. It's essentially what I gave at one of the Harvard Celtic Colloquiums, and extends my ides into the greater Indo-European world.
So basically although Prof Sandars reassigned the cauldron culturally and the ditector of the Danish museum respects that, you stick to your initial discussion: Cernunos as a Celtic god...notwithstanding the ivy plant and the griffins specific to Thracians. Maybe a metallurgic analysis will settle the dispute for good. The percentages of impurities indicate well the mines where the metal came from .
There actually has been a metallurgical analysis that showed that the silver did indeed come from Thrace. There are artistic motifs on the cauldron, such as the ram-headed serpent, that came from Thrace as well. However, there are motifs that can be clearly identified as Celtic -- the horns, the representation of the Thunder God, the style of the helmet of the Thunder God's helper, and the figure of Cernunnos, which was originally found in a non-Thracian area, but close to Thrace. Thracian silversmiths were highly regarded, and hired by people from other cultures. They would have been commissioned to make the cauldron by Celts, and carried out the commission according to their own artistic tradition, but with the primary elements being ones directed by the commissioners, who were Celts.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 many thanks to you. I recently saw a clip on the celtic settlements in N Thrace/ W Romania
Why is it identified as a cauldron? There is a big space between the decorative upper part and the lower bowl part.
This reminds me of the Slavic God veles who is ruler of the underworld but also a wild bearded man sometimes with horns or antlers, but this God of the underworld isn't seen as evil he was worshipped by the common folk as the serpent of commerce. Veles also has his southern Slavic counterpart of Triglav who was three headed. Veles is also known to shape shift into animals as well most commonly a horned snake
I took a look through Wikipedia, and the gods do seem similar, but also different. In my article that I based this on, which I presented at the Harvard Celtic Colloquium and was published in the Proceedings (not that I'm bragging, of course) I compared Cernunnos to deities in other Indo-European cultures, and came to conclusion that Cernunnos was a reflex of a Proto-IE deity. (Google "Cernunnos Ceisiwr Serith" and it should show up as the first return.) I didn't include Veles, though, for the simple reason that I don't have any academically respectable sources on him. However, I did include Pan and the Vedic Pūṣan. Both of these are shepherd gods, and thereby connected with meadows. They are both connected with goats, rather than sheep as Veles is, but sheep are insignificant in Vedic religion (are they even _found_ in India?). As I say in the video, I don't think that there's anything significant in the fact that the serpent connected with Cernunnos has a specifically ram's head. Pūṣan is a god of merchants, like Cernunnos (although Pan isn't), and according to Wikipedia Veles was connected with merchants as well. The three-headed thing is interesting, but that would only be if Veles is connected with Triglav, and I'm not aware of any evidence of that. If you have any reliable source for this, I'd be interested in hearing it. One thing I didn't make anything of in the video or article is that there seems to have been a connection between Cernunnos and the Underworld. However, the evidence for this is slight, being limited to the rat on the Reims stele and later representations of him in ways that Bober thinks look like Pluto. So there are some similarities between Cernunnos and Veles that are interesting.
However, there are some differences. The most important is the link of Veles with serpents. He is found as the enemy of Perun. Now Perun is definitely a reflex of the PIE thunder-god, who is an enemy of the great Serpent of Chaos, whom he fights with an aerial weapon. In Gaul, the reflex is definitely Taranis, who fights the serpent either with a wheel (representing thunder) or a spear. He fight against a serpent or serpents which have either human heads (on the "Jupiter columns" in eastern Gaul), representing the Titans in Graeco-Roman mythology, or a ram's head, on the Gundestrup cauldron (the panel with the god with the wheel). There isn't, however, any representation of Taranis fighting Cernunnos. Cernunnos holds serpents, or they wrap around him and he feeds them, but he isn't identified with them. Instead he seems to control them. Except for the ram's head on the serpent he isn't connected with sheep, and he is never connected with meadows (although to be fair, it would be difficult to indicate this in the kind of Cernunnos artifacts we have). So I don't think there are any direct connections between Cernunnos and Veles, or they may be connected via Pan and Pūṣan.
One thing you mention is that Veles sometimes has horns or antlers. Wikipedia doesn't mention this. Do you have any academic source for this?
Thank you for your comments. I haven't looked too closely at Slavic mythology in any of my research. This isn't due to any sense that it isn't important, but rather that there is so little primary or even academic secondary evidence/work on it. I've been able to fix this somewhat by what I've found on sms.zrc-sazu.si/En/kazalo.html and a massive amount of articles on the Slavs on academia.edu, so I'm hoping my future research will include more information on them. Thanks for adding to my motivation to do that.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 like you said it's hard to find sources on a lot of this stuff but I was mistaken about the antler thing he is commonly depicted with cattle horns. Triglav just means three headed he wasn't his own God he was the combination of the three most powerful which to some people were svarog perun and dazhbog but sometimes dazhbog is replaced with either veles or svetovid (got that info from Wikipedia not sure how you feel about that)
@@oleksandrdavidovich4271 Cattle are extremely different from goats, sheep, and deer, being the standard unit of value in IE cultures. That could point to Veles as a god of wealth, which would make sense as a god of the Underworld, where gems and gold come from. I have my doubts about Triglav. There's an unfortunate tendency among mythologists to say that any appellation that's etymologically transparent is a title rather than a name. But names of deities _come_ from titles, so that can simply mean that the name is recent. So I'll withhold any opinion on Triglav ending further research.
I'm actually doing something with this deity in a script. Would you be amenable to private chat? I've tried for over a year to find viable facts about this entity and its means of worship; but there's just too much Wiccan fluff running around that muddies the story. I used Cernunnos because I was fascinated by his iconography and the fact that he's simultaneously one of the oldest celtic deities as well as the most mysterious. Nobody has a clear picture of what he is or does so I just made up an entire cult around him.
I understand trying to cut through the Wicca and New Age. It's especially difficult online. Private message me and I might be able to help.
Ultimately, I'd, ask is it that unreasonable to say you have found your own interpretation of Cernunnos?
We will never fully know or understand what sort of deity Cernunnos was in a complete sense anyway.
Why would you call it fluff? Nobody knows wich story is true anyway since we have no evidence of whats actually true at all.
@@rorysullivan5694 Thank you! I was just going to say the same thing. While historical research can be fascinating and help someone on their path, I think when people try to be too academic with their approach, they cheat themselves and what they're studying. To study with logic is one thing. To study with one's inner heart is another. The gods appear as we best will connect with them collectively and individually.
Jattefuldygreen Fluff means ‘false connections made up by Gerald Gardner’ for the purpose of furthering Wicca rather than giving us a genuine idea of ancient religion.
Five years down this road how do you feel now?
I haven't seen any new artifacts or arguments to change my ideas. I do wish I'd had a better microphone, though.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 I was just curious. I'll have to see if you make other good videos
The pillar of the sailors 🙂 like cool Native American Totem poles
Why wouldn't "facing away" mean protecting? Standing guard? A lot of assumptions.
It might. But there is still the connection with Mercury to be explained. Mercury wasn't a protecting god. I think that the Mercury connection/identification is the fact that blows most theories regarding Cernunnos out of the water.
over one hour of them
It is strange a diety I have been exposed to for over half my life is so hard to find information about.
There's a _lot_ of information on the Wiccan Cernunnos (although to be fair most sources are just repeating each other). The Gaulish Cernunnos, the other hand, has, except for my own work, not been treated in-depth since Bober in the 1950s. When he's discussed in academic works, the same things are repeated over and over again. It makes sense; life is short, and scholars writing overviews of Celtic Paganism don't have the time to look in depth into every deity they cover. The odd thing is, they ignore Bober's conclusions, even when they include her in their references. It's frustrating.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 One question for you, is he Gaulish exclusively? Or did he end up Gaelic too?
@@keaganwheeler-mccann8565 He starts out in northern Italy, then appears in Gaul. He's never found in off the continent, except in Chichester, which was an area that had been colonized by the continental Belgae. There aren't any Cernunnos artifacts from the rest of the British Isles.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 You're probably aware of the references but there are two characters in Irish myth who have potential links with Cernunnos. One is Conall Cernach where the cern part of his name possibly has the same root as cern-unnnos. There is a story fragment from the cattle raid of Fraech where he faces off against a serpent guarding a fortress. All the story says is that the serpent winds itself around the belt of Cernach and they're able to enter. Conall itself means 'hound lord' though not an uncommon type of name.
The other instance is Derg Corra and the Corra part of the name is somtimes glossed as peaked/cornered as in Cernach. He appears in the short story Finn and the man in the tree. Finn chases Derg Corra who is said to run on the legs of a deer and later finds him up a tree.
"One day as Finn was in the wood seeking him he saw a man in the top of a tree, a blackbird on his right shoulder and in his left hand a white vessel of bronze, filled with water, in which was a skittish trout, and a stag at the foot of the tree. And this was the practice of the man, cracking nuts; and he would give half the kernel of a nut to the blackbird that was on his right shoulder while he would himself eat the other half; and he would take an apple out of the bronze vessel that was in his left hand, divide it in two, throw one half to the stag that was at the foot of the tree, and then eat the other half himself. And on it he would drink a sip of the water in the bronze vessel that was in his hand, so that he and the trout and the stag and the blackbird drank together."
The presenter offers a lot of great material and good research. However, I think he makes a few unfounded, or at least, incomplete assumptions. e.g. the earliest known Indo-European R Y-DNA was found near Baikal Lake, Russia. and dated to 24,000 YPB. Is it possible that early Indo-European culture influenced - and, was influenced by - other cultures. Judging from well established DNA 'maps', I think this idea is worth consideration. This cultural cross-contamination would've have diverged with time, as seen occurring in the historical and archeological evidence of later cultures in Europe. e.g. the three faced gods, associations with Mercury, etc.
So... What is his domain?
His major domain is prosperity, especially that gained through exchange. His major way of functioning, though, is be being a mediator between opposites, and that can apply to many things, such as political reconciliations.
What is very interesting is that the posture is a real asana found in Yoga. The pashupati found chiseled in stone in the Indus Valley also seems to be in a yoga posture.that I need to.identify. Thrace is famous for Orpheus whose teachings about the Soul as a separate entity from its body-prison and the union with the divinity after ascetic practices, were teachings deemed to resemble Hindu practices---see German scholar Erwin Rhode s book Psyche.
I don't know enough to comment of Orpheus, except that although his cult may have been found in Thrace, the Thracian silversmiths who would have made the cauldron worked in many areas of the ancient world, and picked up many motifs from them, as well as spreading the motifs.
As for the Indus valley seals, I deal with this in the video. The image on the seal is female, as shown by the arm rings and belt, which are found only on female images. The fan which is between the two horns is also only found on female images, and we have an image of this figure in profile, showing they have breasts.
The Indus Valley civilization ended circa 1300 BCE. For there to be a connection between the image on the seal and that on the cauldron would require the iconography to have been preserved for 1000 years with no intermediates, and show up far away.
I also show that the earliest representations of Cernunnos show him in full form, and standing, so it his original form he wasn't show with crossed legs. I also show how the animals on the seal don't have an analogue on the cauldron, those on the cauldron, except for the stag and the dog, being decorative elements.
All in all, I don't think any connection between the Indus Valley seal and the cauldron can be supported.
There was an Aryan migration that is a fact established by many items:: linguistics, mythological, genetics...the Rig Veda may have been started in the North in an oral form and added to in the south...I am not trying to start a polemics because I have a lot to read & study. Just a bit of food for thought. I saw a meeting between two people, an Indian fluent in Sanskrit and a Lithuanian. They could translate each other with a bit of wait but it worked. The geographical distance is considerable. What is often ignored is the Ossetians the descendants of the Scythians who were iranic/aryan and still in the Caucasus and the existence of Sanskrit words in Romanian along with the vast Latin vocabulary. Prof
Frits Staal in Discovering the Vedas states that the Caspian sea divided a Vedic block...Prof Olmstead in A History of Assyria stated that the Phrygians conducted their affairs according to Aryan law[Law of Manu]. Presently there are 400+ sites in Anatolia...at a time that to have a career & get funds one must be Eurocentric( Dr Zangger paraphrased).
@@alexgabriel5423Yes, of course there was an Indo-Europeans, of the Indic peoples/Indo-Aryans, into India. But the Indus Valley civilization is where the seals in question came from, not any Indo-European one. And that civilization was either extinct by the time the Indo-Aryans came in, or was on its last legs, to be finished off by them. So the figures on the Indus seals aren't Indo-European. The ideas behind them would have to have survived the collapse of the Indus Valley civilization for a thousand years, and then migrate thousands of miles to a completely unrelated culture. And since we can see the origin of Cernunnos among the Val Camonican Celts, it would have to have been just the way Cernunnos is sitting on the Gundestrup cauldron that was adopted. (If he's sitting at all; to me he looks like he's in full form and just bent to fit him onto the panel.) Add in that Cernunnos seems to have been connected with merchants, and the idea of a connection with the Indus Valley becomes untenable.
@@alexgabriel5423 It seems unlikely if yoga was known that it would only exist in a single example. More likely is that it's a seated position with the legs splayed slightly or is actually meant to convey crossed legs and the artist had difficulty showing this.
At any rate the Celts, like the Japanese, sat on the floor with small raised tables, at least at gatherings as chairs are known from the Celtic world.
they aren't multi-headed, they are represented that way because they guard all four corners
What do you think of the possibility of Cernunnos being the Gaulish God of Farming and the Hunt?
Hence why he's associated with domestic and woodland animals, but not wild ones like lions, and explain why he sometimes carries around a basket of food and has been linked with tradesmen, and the torque might indicate he was also a God of Abundance, thus wealth
Also, if you consider all the deities/figures the Ancient Romans associated him with (Mercury, Jupiter, Actaeon and Dis Pater), Agriculture is a common theme
The Mont-St.-Jean image could be interpreted as farming and the hunt. I don't see how the other ones could, though. I agree that he was connected with wealth, but it seems that by the time of the Gundestrup cauldron it isn't agriculture, but trade. He doesn't carry around a basket of food. I don't see an agriculture connection with the Roman deities you mentions. Mercury is wealth through trade, Jupiter isn't wealth at all, Cernunnos isn't connected with Actaeon, and Dis Pater is the below ground not that which grows from it.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 You mentioned that Cernunnos was sometimes depicted with a Cornucopia, but the name slipped me at the time, hence "basket of food"
Mercury was a God of Trade, but that is something a farmer would engage in, and his counterpart Hermes, who the Greeks associated Cernunnos with, was constantly associated with the protection of cattle and sheep, and he was often closely connected with deities of vegetation
I'll concede I got abit mixed up with Jupiter, but he was a rain deity, which is somewhat connected to farming/plant life, plus Jupiter himself lacks any connections to the underworld
Dis Pater was a God of the underworld, but he was originally associated with fertile agricultural land and mineral wealth
As for Actaeon, I admit I had trouble trouble finding any source about his association with Cernunnos outside Wikipdedia, but I also had trouble finding any concrete info about Cernunnos outside Wikipedia. And once you know Actaeon's story, an association does seem possible, as Actaeon was a farmer and hunter who was later turned into a stag, and he had strong ties with dogs
Plus, the Greeks also associated Cernunnos with Apollo, who was a Solar Deity and was also a god of crops and herds, primarily as "a divine bulwark against wild animals and disease"
With all this in consideration, it's possible to conclude that Cernunnos was a God of Farming and the Hunt, who could change the weather to bring forth desirable conditions and create mass abundance and wealth. I know I'm stretching abit here, but I am just trying to create a coherent and consistent picture based of what we do know about him
What do you think?
@@logicmeister1821 The only Cernunnos who has a cornucopia is the one on the Lyon cup, and even there the Mercury on the other side is counting money. Two of the three statues of women with antlers hold cornucopia (we can't tell whether the third originally had one), but it's not known how they fit into the Cernunnos cult; perhaps they represented a companion that was associated with food to complete his connection with material wealth. It's a stretch to say that farmers were connected with trade; pretty much everyone is, and farmers were more connected with chthonic deities. In Gaul, the most common attribute of Mercury is a purse, which indicates that he was connected with commerce. I know of no case where Cernunnos is specifically associated with a Greek deity, and the Greek Hermes wasn't connected with trade anyways.
In Roman theology, of the empire period, which I believe the Romano-Celtic images are all from, Jupiter is most often connected with the empire in general, and the emperor in particular. When we can confidently identify an image of him which has identified him with a Celtic god, it's always Taranis; none of them have any of the attributes of Cernunnos. There _is_ an inscription from Dacia referring to a religious society dedicated to "Jupter Cernenus," but that's far away from the other inscriptions and images, and is not taken as an example of Cernunnos by any Celticist I'm familiar with. (I suspect that it's a synthesis between Jupiter and the ram-horned Egyptian god Amon, but that's pretty much a guess.) In Gaul, Jupiter was depicted as a thrower of lightning, but when we see more of him (and when he's identified with Taranis) he's depicted as the overcomer of snaky Titans, a good example of the Indo-European hero god. In fact, this myth is depicted on the Gundestrup cauldron, on a separate panel from the one with Cernunnos. I'm unaware of a Romano-Celtic depiction in which he's shown as a god of rain or agriculture; even in Rome he's not connected with agriculture, so that would be a surprise.
The image from Reims could connect Cernunnos with Dis Pater one account of the rat, but it also represents him with the overflowing bag of coins, so the aspect of Dis Pater most likely being represented is of Pluto, "wealth." As far as I know, although Pluto lived beneath the earth, he wasn't connected with agriculture. (In Greek mythology that was the province of his wife.)
Actaeon wasn't a deity, and the story about him describes him as offering a goddess, making him an unlikely figure for syncretism with a god. There are also no images of Cernunnos with Diana or transforming into a stag.
It was the Romans, not the Greeks who connected Cernunnos with Apollo. He exists with him in two case. In Reims he stands on one side of Cernunnos, with Mercury on the other. At Vendreuvres (?), he is on one side of the block. The other is mutilated, but is generally assumed to have held an image of Mercury (although we can't be sure). Apollo with Cernunnos is thus in one case definitely, and in another likely, connected with him only in the company of Mercury. Although Apollo is connected with herds in Greek myth, I'm unaware of his being considered a god of cattle there, and he isn't connected with cattle in Roman myth. I know Apollo was seen as both a protector and a causer of disease (because of his arrows), but I don't know of anything specifically connecting him with diseases of cattle. Do you have any sources on this, especially primary ones?
I know I don't know as much about Roman religion as I should (I mostly study their ritual), but I'm not seeing anything to support Cernunnos as a god of cattle or agriculture.
Thank you for this discussion. I'm enjoying it; it's fun to be forced to expand one's mind. It's also nice to see that it's possible to be nice on the internet.
Well done Sir.
Look at the Liberty Caps shown above his head and between the stags antler. This was ,as were they all , a complex personality and needing deep meditation . You should look into The Cult of the Archer Guardian ,another deity misrepresented as a god of hunting and not the guide to the underworld a link between the realms .
Which image has a Liberty cap? I'm not seeing it. I also don't see how that would relate to any of the other iconography.
Do you have any sources for the Archer Guardian? I'm not familiar with him. Where is he from?
You have blown my mind that you didn't make any connection whatsoever to the North. Odin is directly named as Mercury by Tacitus, and is known to be a god of the mind with the ability to slip between realms on his 8-legged horse...similar to the practices of shamans in cultures all over the world. The horned dancer is also a strikingly similar motif to the depictions of Cernunnos, the difference is that the horns are a headdress tipped with bird heads, similar to the headdress depicted on one of the images here, where instead of a snake it seems to be a rope.
This appears to be a different cultural flavor of the very same spirit, one that was prevalent in Gaul at the time of the Roman conquest.
it's a representation of Hermes. Mercury Thoth Quetzalcoatl
That fan in the Background 😑
It's not a fan, it's a bad mic. Sorry about that'; I've gotten a better one since I made this.
Thanks for posting, i found this a highly interesting documentry, having been thinking about the same thing, my origional comment was several thousand characters too many to post, so could i email it to you by any chance, depending on if youd be interested?
I know this intrinsically. Thank you. Have you listened to the story of ‘When a wild god comes’
You're welcome. I don't know that story. What's it about?
CERN and Particle Physics
Hail Cernunnos!
At 5:47 I'd say if a pic myself I was waiting to explain it, and bars left an right both hands means only options, tail is like Satan, except its a hanging piece of persons mental/ phys spirit construct kinda like golem, human being, being forced situationally to endure sorta force fields and forces pushing the pieces around like ur body is the hose on 13 ghosts, left and right almost 2d sorta core reality to survive, survival being not tortured, sorta like a fractal juggling, it's hard to juggle but it's easier with 2 things 1 hand, funny that guy on 13 ghosts does the voice of lion on lion king.
@0:01 look at the Celtic coin of the city of Reims in France, it's same , look : Potin Rémes du personnage assis
Yep. Check out my avatar. It's just that coin.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 Yes, it's that coin. The tribe Rémes has several coins made with this alloy. It's name Potin. They have the same diameter, the same colors, relief ...But this coin is only within a radius of about 250 kilometers around Reims, while the coin ( potin Rémes du guerrier courant ) is found from England to Czechoslovakia and no one understands why.
@@slimaneismailli8732 Trade , especially along the river systems ?
It's a torc in his right hand
meaning is simply the time - past present and future
Perhaps the ram-headed snake symbolizes wealth from afar, or wealth from trading, as it comes from the East via the Silk Road. A symbol of far away trade partners?
Could be. Except that wouldn't explain its presence on the Taranis panel on the Gundestrup cauldron. Because of the common Indo-European myth of the thunder-god killing the monstrous snake, sometimes accompanied by a human helper, it's best understood there as that snake. If the two snakes are meant to be the same thing, then Cernunnos' snake would also be the monstrous, chthonic one.
This is just me spitballing OC~~~ Notice the OC in the middle of his forehead 1:35 like what Hermes uses it signifies Taurus. You also see the name ESCOLIVES learn to see names as describing program function see them geometrically/numerically/etymologically. ES CO LIV ES remembering the Keanu started out dyslexic(quite the advantage as this is the MOS of the COS(CHAOS) it's why they call it the Tracer program when deciphering names I'd look both backward & forward. Why do you think they call it CERN symbolically it means to interfere with creation/time space continuum & HAARP symbolizes interference with inward thought/praying like what Sidious did(you really must learn the symbolism). Heck etymologize Keanu's name & Hugo tell me if they fit their characters it might help to look up the no weaving spiders sign at bohemian grove & many of their other buildings. LI MIN AL means LI=powerful(it's why LI LI TH(two LI = hex like hell see numerically two l=24 like Thor/Zeus HA(means to know)MM(M or theory of everything 13x2 for 26 hexed Z's)ER means to do I didn't do it backward it would take forever if I started dissecting everything I put up. LI is also 21x2= 42 like SIN or SI=look up silicon notice atomic weight then look up N Nitrogen do same. 42 also Hitchhiker's Guide answer(They show you in the Matrix that Neo figures out that all realities are AI). Same reason Chaos/Mess was defeated by Cronus(ORDER) & Zeus(ZOOS the S is for separation or reversing it like OS S in the middle for Yin Yang of creation it's why Cronus would represent O SI R IS & ISIS could put the pieces back together & why S ET(ET means alien to) had the program function he did. I do what I do because I have no choice & I am the Mastro(Master)LI etc.... Anyway this probably went way over your head no worries if so carry on. OH but hey really you should look into what I have put up if you really want to know what this is but be warned it isn't all that pretty & it may very well get you compartmentalized/left with no real option/choice.
Some images from Sumeria and Greece have Fawn ears too.
A good long overview somewhat like this one from 2008, but an easier format here, some stretches of the imagination too : it would be great to have improved sound in an update ? www.flickr.com/photos/celtico/2928470503/
And the connection with triplism is made.
And other Cernunnos inspired galley-photos here :
www.flickr.com/photos/celtico/galleries/72157715905423062/
The 1951 article cyber link has been bought out ?
Best wishes , as this must have taken some research.
Ritual sacrifice was originally human and then became animal sacrifices,viking saxons would sacrifice a number of each animal including a number of humans I nine of each I believe.
The wiccan cernunnos is the celtic one. What is the difference between the celtic and gaulish one?
The Gaulish Cernunnos is the Celtic Cernunnos. The Wiccan Cernunnos isn't Celtic; he's a result of a combination of Gaulish iconography, the Greek Pan, aspects of Hinduism, Jungian psychology, various political positions, Aleister Crowley's Thelemic system, etc. The video limits itself to the Gaulish/Celtic Cernunnos.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 So I have been watching this video in it's full now, and it's very interesting. With your research and analyses, what would you say Cernunnos was a god of? Do you think he was more than god of commerce and bidirectionality? And also, What suggested that he might have his origins as a god of hunt as you mention at the end of the video? Thanks
I think that in at least the post-Val Camonica period Cernunnos was at least primarily a god of commerce and bidirectionality, and that we don't have any evidence of anything else. But that might have come from his having been a god of the hunt originally, since that would have been a source of prosperity in those days; perhaps, though, his half-animal identity led to the idea of him as a god of bidirectionality.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 Perhaps there Will be more interesting discoveries of what kind of god he originaly were. Its too bad there are so little evidence. Why do you Think that is? He seems to have evolved through the centuries.
I think there's quite a lot of evidence; in fact, more than most Gaulish deities, due to the number of attributes he possesses and his consistent association with one Roman god (Mercury), with only two instances connecting him with another deity (Hercules), both of whom are connected with merchants. For the vast majority of Gaulish deities we have a single inscription or statue, and often they're not identified with a Roman deity and/or the etymology of their name is unclear. So the fact that there's enough evidence to come to any conclusion at all is remarkable and fortunate.
Very Interesting.
So, what is your view of the identity of the "god of the witches", much beloved of Margaret Murray et al. (if such existed)?
Any view of who Herne was/is?
The "God of the Witches" didn't exist until modern times, when he was invented, probably as a result of Margaret Murray. I'm not saying he's not real, or that it's not valid to worship him; religion, especially gods, are way too complicated for that. I'm just saying that he wasn't worshiped by the ancient Celts.
As for Herne, he was a local folk character. His name, which is related to "horn," refers to the horn he blows, not any on his head. He may or may not be a survival of a Pagan deity, but if he is, there's no evidence to link him to Cernunnos.
Ceisiwr Serith Thanks for that:) I tend to agree.
The term wicca came about only after gardner, for whom there was never anyone whom stood forward, to solidify his "initiation" because there never was one, because he imagined being the forefather of a new movement, calling it his, encircling all of the olde as IF and, he did succeed. This is why Ive said that 'wicca" is madeup, and those whom label themselves thus, well?? The ancient ways held no labels. It was a thing of the blood, of everything existing and of things just out of this dimension. Label them good, and evil, lol, that's what men do, for their own purposes. Maybe its just as simple as what IS. Without all, of the ridiculous hoopla and jargin. Maybe Im wrong, about everything :) and maybe, Im not.
Sarraih Myst Gerald G. claimed to have been initiated into the New Forrest Coven.
I'm not interested in Wicca.
It's one of the NRMs.
A good deal of what constitutes paganism was absorbed/incorporated into the Catholic Religion.
But obviously there must have been something against which the Inquisition moved. But it's not clear exactly what it was.
and it will never be revealed
The female goddess flanked by two elephants resembles indian goddess of wealth called Laxmi. Kindly note there were no elephants ever found roaming in history of this part of Europe 2000 years ago.
Quite true. However, elephants were found in Thracian silver work; they apparently picked them up via the Scythians. Such motifs traveled along the Silk Road.
@@ceisiwrserith2224
So you don't deny that trade routes existed between Europe and Asia Including India.So how can you deny Indian influence on this Culture then?
@@ceisiwrserith2224
Thracian also had images of Lotus in their wares. Now lotus is sacred flower found presently only in Hindu religion. So since trade routes existed between Asia and Europe, there must have been population exchange from Northern parts of then India which then included Afghanistan, Pakistan Iran etc. Even in Turkey lotus images have been found by their archaeology department. These haven't been studied in detail by any scholars. Don't forget Indus civilisation is 4500 year old and Varanasi city is the oldest living city on this planet.you can refer to Mark Twain writings in regards to Varanasi city and Voltaire also in regards to Indian ancient culture.
@@ceisiwrserith2224
There are many Celtic wares found in England having swastikas symbol on them. Even there is a Thor god paintings which shows Swastika symbol on his belt. So these symbols which are very old are part of Hindus cultures and are considered sacred. Unfortunately there has been no deep study on pre christian era civilisation of European nations.May be there are many things which nobody wants to discover as it may alter the history as we know it.
Swastikas are also found in American Indian art. Do you think they were influenced by Hinduism?
I have listened to some comparisons with lugh as well
I've seen that argued in a "Lug = Mercury, and Cernunnos Mercury, therefore Cernunnos = Lug" way, but I don't see it. No Roman deity is ever the god of X and only X; they all have their collection of aspects, which sometimes overlaps those of other deities. So Lug could be equated to one (or some) aspect of Mercury, and Cernunnos to other(s). Or Lug and Cernunnos could have been worshiped by different social classes, or by different occupations, or by different tribes, or by different whatevers. Since we don't have any iconography that we can confidently assign to Lugo/us in Gaul we don't know enough about him to come to any conclusions.Thanks for the question; it's got me thinking about what we actually know about Lugus/Lugos/Lug/Lleu that doesn't come from Irish and Welsh tales. Off the top of my head, I can think of a connection with cobblers and some place names; even the etymology of his name is unsure. Are you aware of any other evidence?
Yes, there are a number of multi-headed Slavic gods. Sventovit has four, for instance. I haven't spent much time on Slavic Paganism, so I don't know what the meaning of multi-headedness is in it.
Another Problem is that as
we know nothing about
this 'deity' anything we say is
supposition and conjecture..
There is supposition and conjecture which is based on one's imagination, and supposition and conjecture which is based on evidence. And when it's based on evidence, there are levels of evidence and argument. There are also established ways to interpret evidence is cases such as this; Cernunnos is far from unique in the nature and amount of the evidence. And we actually _do_ know a lot about him. For instance, we know the Roman god he was most closely connected with was Mercury, to the point of being syncretized with him in several images. This must have been significant, and is _far_ from "nothing." There is a lot more, which I show in this video. I recommend you watch all of it.
At the Sacred Centre, in the Grove of all Worlds, He sits with legs crossed beneath an ancient Oak. Entranced, connecting the three worlds Earth, Sea, and Sky, and the worlds behind the worlds, the god and the Great Tree are One, His immense limbs widespread, stretching into distant sky and starry space.
His massive trunk, spine of the Middleworld, is the heart of the Ancient Forest around which all Life, all worlds turn; His limitless root web growing deep into secret earth and Underworld; above him the great turning circles of Sun, Moon, and Stars. All around Him subtle movements of the leaves in melodious, singing air; everywhere the pulsing, gleaming Green awash in drifts of gold and shimmering mist; beneath Him soft moss creeping over the dark, deep, moist of spawning earth. At His feet is the great Cauldron from which the Five Rivers Flow.
Through the forest stillness they come, whispering wings and secret glide, rustling leaves, and silent step, the first Ancestors, the Oldest Animals, to gather around Him: Blackbird, Keeper of the Gate; Stag of Seven Tines, Master of Time; Ancient Owl, Crone of the Night; Eagle, Lord of the Air, Eye of the Sun; and Salmon, Oldest of the Old, Wisest of the Wise leaping from the juncture of the Five Springs. He welcomes them and blesses them, and they honour Him, Cernnunos of the nut brown skin and lustrous curling hair; the god whose eyes flash star-fire, whose flesh is a reservoir of ancient waters, His cells alive with Mystery, original primeval essence. Naked, phallus erect, He wears a crown of antlers limned in green fire and twined with ivy. In his right hand the Torq of gold, testament of his nobility and his sacred pledge; in his left hand the horned serpent symbol of his sexual power sacred to the Goddess. Cernnunos in His Ancient Forest, His Sacred Temple, His Holy Grove, Cernnunos and His children dream the Worlds.
@@andynoth228 That isn't the Cernunnos worshiped by the Pagan Gauls, though, and that's what this video is about.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 that is not the title nor the description. Neither do I understand what it means to clasify a group as pagan. Especially when pagan is ultimately a word brought in by the Romanic Powers to justify their own corruption and bring the truth to falsehood by abdicting something from within and from there on butcher out the core of those in the know. Gauls,celts, druids.. same history
@@andynoth228 In the description I say, "Please note that I am dealing with the Gaulish god Cernunnos, not the Wiccan Horned God who sometimes goes by the same name." I also mention it around the 17 second point of the video. I think you need to relax about the word "Pagan." Things are rarely that simple.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 I do Read the comments but by far this does not suddenly change the entity you define. Sir do you know that all humanity shares a similar writing. My number 7 is not that much different then the number 7 in India. Do you think that similar characters suddenly changes identity when brought up by a different group of people? Your comment is mind boggling. You acknowledge the exact same name and figure in Both cultures. You seem to understand that all these cultures habitated around the same area..again mind boggling
Looking at the Gundstrup, and placement of feet of the dog, it could be argued that the dog is a foot or several behind Cernunnos and so again, not looking in his direction. The same might be said about the stag too as it also appears to be slightly forward from him again looking across but not at him. So really it could appear that no animals at all were supposed to be looking at Cernunnos in this depiction.
It's an interesting suggestion, but I would argue against it for several reasons. First, the presence of those two animals (and only those two, other than the snake) accompanying Cernunnos on the Lyon cup suggests that at least the maker of the cup saw the two animals as specifically significant. Second, the placement of the dog could simply be a result of having to make room for the snake; i.e., the silversmith had no choice but to put the dog where he did. Third, we see Cernunnos accompanied by two animals at Reims and at Brioude. In those cases, they're a stag and a bull, rather than a stag and a dog. I think, though, that there's similar symbolism there, with both dogs and bulls being both domestic and yet in a sense dangerous, as opposed to the wild but pacific stag. (I don't think I'd realized this further opposition before just now.) However, I was fortunate last summer to get to see the actual cauldron, and I was amazed to see how high the relief was of the figure of Cernunnos. He was almost an inch high! The other figures were of much lower relief, apparently since they were less important. I wish I'd paid attention to the height of the stag and dog relative to the other animals; that may or may not have been important.
Three-headed Shiva
I don't know enough about Siva to say what the three-headed nature of him means. However, I don't think that there's no historical connect between him and Cernunnos.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 If the Druid religion was related to the Aryans' we can possibly deduced the three-headed nature of Cernunnos
Celtic religion was definitely related to Vedic religion. However, the three-heads representations of Cernunnos only appears in later images. Shiva does appear in the Rig Veda - or at least the _name_ does, but I'm not convinced that this was the Shiva we all know about. I suspect that the three-headed nature of each deity developed long after the Indo-Europeans had separated. After all, many of the Hindu gods had more than one head, but among the Celts Cernunnos is the only one we can be sure of as being represented that way. Similarities don't always mean connections; they have to appear as complexes, as numerous elements connected in a pattern. We can't just look at three-headed-ness and decide there's a connection.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 I only noticed the three heads recently. There are other similarities like the snake symbolizing the destructive nature of masculinity and the antlered hunter god as depicted in Babylonian motifs with the same symbolic duality. Others have noticed these similarities. www.druidry.org/druid-way/other-paths/druidry-dharma Athough they may just be archetypal there is at least a strong etymological correlation that shouldn't overlooked.
Rudra-Shiva was horned orginally, Odin is depicted with two ravens from his head.
Reference on Rudra? I don't recall it from the Vedas. Odin's ravens are on his shoulders, not his head, and are hardly antlers/horns.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 ruclips.net/video/X5Kc3AwYPAc/видео.html
@@Kampfwageneer Interesting pictures. But there are problems with his identification of the dancers (and in academic literature they aren't referred to as "the horned man") as Odin is weak. It's hard to get from a god who has two ravens on his shoulders to one who wears (and in almost all of the depictions, the horns/birds are on something worn; i.e., they don't grow from the head) two horns ending in raptors on his head. The presenter notes that there is a difference between raptors and ravens, and tries to get around this by showing a depiction in which there are birds on the head which are reach down to seemingly speak into the ears of a man/god. He then identifies them with Huginn and Muninn, Odin's ravens. This is a reasonable interpretation, but two ravens bending down can hardly be the same as two raptors on horns which extending upward.
The fact that a lot of these horned helmet figures are dancing has led researchers to identify them with warriors. Warriors typically dance in IE myth, and especially in ritual. In fact, Tacitus says that the Germans danced as they went into battle. I think that these images are more of a warrior thing than an Odin thing.
So all in all, I think the presenter has failed in his identification of Odin with the "horned man." All he really has is raptors on the head (which Odin doesn't have) and guiding of spears, which can be done by any god.
I'm also interested in your association of Rudra with horns.
ancestors knew we were not separate from nature.
I'm sorry, but this isn't true. They made a strong distinction between inside and outside, between order and chaos, and between culture and nature. The idea that they didn't comes from 19th century Romanticism, combined with a dose of 60s idealism.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 nah you don't know. Horned being the animal in all of us
@@revishon As you can see in my video, at least by the time of the Romans he was connected with commerce, not the natural. You have to look at the evidence, which in this case consists of the representations we have Of Cernunnos, especially the ones were he's syncretized with Mercury. Perhaps he started as "the animal in all of us," but by the time we have evidence of him, he's a sign of culture. Watch the video and look at the representations of him, and you'll see this,
@@ceisiwrserith2224 think back further
@@revishon We don't have evidence from much further back, but we can see in the Proto-Indo-European language from about 3500 BCE that there is a separation between nature and culture. There's no evidence from anywhere that man considered himself part of nature. That's modern Romanticism being projected back.
28:20 is a favorite of mine
But not a Cernunnos.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 still love the art style none the less as it gets the message across.
I'm seeing a lot of nautical symbols. Anyone know the story behind that?
Do you think they are just about trade via the water?
+MyDuck42 What nautical symbols are those?
+Ceisiwr Serith The person riding a fish on the Gundestrup cauldron, his presence on the pillar of the boatmen, his possible presence in the mosaic from the Verulamium museum that is a sea god, and I couldn't find it when I went back through the video but i feel like at some point there was a depiction of him with two snakes that had fish tales.
MyDuck42 Interesting. I think the boy on the dolphin is just a decorative element, although it may have been inspired by a marine connection. The mosaic is just Oceanus, with no connection to Cernunnos at all. There is indeed a representation with fish tails; I think that can be explained by the Indo-European snake monster being connected with water. He's most likely on the pillar as a god of merchants. So think each of these can be explained. But you have a point, there is a fair amount of marine imagery. However, the Gauls weren't exactly keen sailors; the sailors that put the pillar up were more accurately bargeman, who plied only the river. So I don't think there is any significance to that. Modern sailors, especially those in the Merchant Marine, might investigate having him as a patron, however.
The boy which is next to Cernunnos on the Gundestrup cauldron is riding a fish. People always say that is a dophin. To me it looks like a Wels (German)! ... in english it might be called > catfish?
This would point on river ways. In India rivers are still called Nadis and have the same name like energy channels in the body, the nadis in which pranic energy flows > Kundalini snake.
In this sense it would be not a decoration, but a part of explanation. Holding this snake would signalise control of psychic energy. Indian symbolic uses the deer to explain the energy of the heart chakra > control of fear and desire ...
this cauldron contains many images related to vedic knowledge and indo-european relations. Cernunnos seem to be a key figure here.
Great vid.
Thx :-)
Just couple of facts there are alot of misconceptions about cernunnos first of all I'd like to bring a bit of information that ties in with the third panel the female depicted on it is danu who is known to be mother earth as there are many tales and not so many facts that can prove that cernunnos is the god of the underworld from what I've read he was definitely a god of life and the forest which is pretty interesting seeing as danu is mother earth could he be the offspring of danu and hades/hel/satan/Lucifer if so this makes alot more sense seeing as he not only has a close attachment to the forest but also shows signs of connection with the ram headed serpent often depicted as Lucifer across many religions
Danu is an Irish goddess, and Cernunnos is a Gaulish god, so there isn't a connection between the two. I think you've read a lot of speculative sources, ones that haven't grappled with the primary evidence. If you watch the video you'll note that Cernunnos is connected with Mercury and Hercules, who are gods of merchants, not with Pan and Silvanus, who are gods of animals and forests. In short, the evidence does _not_ support a connection with the forest, but rather with trade. I would be interested in any connection between the ram-headed snake and Lucifer; not assertions but evidence. (For what it's worth, "Lucifer" means "light-bearer," as was a name for Venus. The confusion between the name and the devil arose from the King James Bible, which adopted Jerome's translation in the Latin Vulgate in Isaiah 14:12 of the term "morning star," which referred to Venus. Christians interpreted that text as referring to the devil (it doesn't), and so thought that "Lucifer" was his name. It wasn't.)
@@ceisiwrserith2224 cernunnos has appeared in more than one form of religion or following the Irish druids spoke alot of a Celtic version of cernunnos I never claimed to be correct in my interpretation it is as you said speculation and down to how you perceive the gods and the stories told about them as there isnt much information about him we can only continue to speculate his origin and his cause for being
@@ceisiwrserith2224 Cernunnos is the conventional name given in Celtic studies to depictions of the "horned god" of Celtic polytheism. Cernunnos was a Celtic god of fertility, life, animals, wealth, and the underworld. ... Speculative interpretations identify him as a god of nature, life or fertility. I believe that Danu an Irish goddess does actually have a link to cernunnos in the Irish side of it but then again I could be completely wrong and yes it's all speculation but it's really interesting and if there was a link it would make alot of sense seeing as mother earth gives birth to life itself
@@ceisiwrserith2224 Danu is the most ancient of the Celtic gods. She was referred to as the mother of the Irish gods, which indicates that she was a mother goddess. ... She is the 'beantuathach' (farmer), which reinforces the fertility aspect of the goddess. Rivers are associated with her, and represent the fertility and abundance in a land
What you say is true, except for one thing: Danu isn't a "Celtic" goddess, she's an Irish one. And Cernunnos is Gaulish. They're not related.
Maybe hes like a st francis lol. Or maybe it's more shamanic like he is able to become like the animals. Or maybe you pray to cernunos to find the animals so you can eat them. Or cernnunos provided domesticated animals to people
ooh and u might want to look into Celtic tribal customs in the Balkan area u might find very interesting provable facts concerning Cernunnos that could be used to improve this video of yours
for more info contact me oke ?
spreading knowledge about Cernunnos is something worth my time
look for the Trachian and Dacian connection both Celtic tribes there and the Dacian mystics that later became the diviners of Greece and even later the mystics of the city of the 7 hills(mountains) by the way the city of the 7 hills is rome and yes I spell rome without capital on purpose.
anyhow contact me oke?
If you have any specific suggestions on sources for the Balkans, I'd be interested.
As for Cernunnos being a hunting god, ask yourself this question: why is he so closely connected with Mercury, who isn't a hunting god?
oke to answer this one correctly u need to understand that our forefathers where living in a world where gods and magic where part of daily life .
some keys to understand the Mercury archetype are magic, walking between worlds, writing and communication.
as a example in ancient Babylon, the planet Mercury was associated with the god Nabu, the divine scribe and god of wisdom.
Mercury refers to the power of the mind that the hunter uses to out think their prey , our ability to anticipate, perceive and communicate true the god's with our prey.
Mercury rules also over the power of our words and how we use them.
While mercury physically has much in common with the Moon.
And the Moon rules our more emotional nature,
Mercury masters the mental side. Metaphysically, Mercury is the archetype of both the messenger and the magician.
Air is the element associated with Mercury, even though the planet contains no atmosphere.
Air is the symbol of the mind, communication and expression. Likewise the throat chakra, the center of communication, is its energy point. Mercury rules two signs, Gemini and Virgo. Gemini, an air sign, deals with communication, expression and learning. Virgo is an Earth sign, but has many Mercurial qualities. Virgo’s talents are processing information, discernment and detail-oriented work in the service of other. Virgo brings the mind down to Earth. The yearly period of Mercury is approximately August 24 to October 24, the fourth 52 day period from the Vernal Equinox. It happens to start near the Sun’s entry into Virgo.
I agree that without having a understanding into the mystical, magical, occult practices of our forefathers that this information might not provide u with the answer that one would be looking for but for the initiated there's more than enough reasons to work with Cernunnos as a mercury archetype
Sorry, but all of what you write about Mercury is relevant to the eastern part of the Levant and to later, non-Gaulish material. In Gaul, Mercury was a god of commerce. We see this on the Lyons cup; on one side is Cernunnos, and on the other side is Mercury counting coins. We also see this in the fact that of all the possible attributes of Mercury, the one most commonly found in Gaul is the purse; the caduceus, symbol of his role as psychopomp, rarely appears.
You also have to explain the connection with the three-headed god, the fact that Cernunnos is extremely connected with the torc, and he stag that is vomiting coins from Niedercorn-Turbelslach in Luxembourg.
My theory explains all of this. Your theories do not.
valknut probably represents ritual too.
Could you explain the mention of the valknut in this context?
@@ceisiwrserith2224 TRINITY SEEMS TO REOCCUR A LOT IN SCENES OF RITUAL SACRIFICES,IT MUST HAVE A CONNECTION OR REPRESENT THIS,EITHER VALKNUT,TRINITY KNOT,OR THE TRIPLE MUSHROOM SYMBOL.THE FAUN EARS ARE SUMERIAN,PERSIAN AND ALSO FOUND IN MACEDONIAN ART,PERHAPS A WARRIOR CULT SYMBOL,MITHRA POSSIBLY!
@@garytucker5748 Threes are common in Celtic culture and not just associated with sacrifice. There are three rings grouped together that appear a lot in Gallic art, perhaps related to the triskele. Then you have the triquetra which is very similar to the valknut so that a common origin wouldn't be a surprise. There are triple deities too.
What do you mean by the triple mushroom symbol? The pelta gets used a lot in art, it seems a common device on shields but I assume you're referring to something else.
Just started watching, bull faced away may mean that there was no affinity with the animal but the color red, like bull fighters and a buck came up to me and let me pet it on the chin while my friend petted it, I'm looking at this for coincidence, and would easily feel that the voice of this description is a narrator bot and the timing of make is smudged or otherwise part of a pc algorithm that they say is too complex for a laptop pc, but just like the verbose" I'll use the word as a joke not knowing what it means pc wise or otherwise besides exclamation, see where I'm getting at, ballistics is more thorough than some bs excuse that only isn't a lie based off of the entirety of the happenings, like film matrix, source code, 222. Haha hehe what else matters than the people using horoscopes to say they don't need to tell u the source besides they magicians, when the source is u.
He's lord pasupatinath of Europe
Since he was assimilated/associated with Mercury, unless you want to say that Mercury was a pasupatinah, that's not ture. That's the point of this video.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 good luck
If the celts named him this how old do you think CERN is..? This question scares me more than death itself.
I don't understand your question. "Cernunnos" is a Gaulish name. The god it describes grew up in a Gaulish context. If you're looking for a god who predates the Gauls, you're not looking for the god I'm discussing here. It's an accident of history that the name "Cernunnos" was applied to the Wiccan Horned God," and that the imagery that the Gauls associated with their Cernunnos has been applied to the Wiccan one. If you believe in a Horned God the worship of whom predates the Celts, then you aren't looking at the god I'm talking about here. Calling that god by the same name as the Gauls used for their god doesn't make the two gods the same. I wish that Wiccans hadn't adopted the name of a particular god for their own deity, but that boat's at Fiji by now. Part of the reason this has been accepted is that people have generally not know much about the Gaulish Cernunnos and that, as I hope I show in the video, most of what they think they knew was wrong. This has allowed people to pour almost anything they wanted into the Cernunnos category. They never would have gotten away with that with a better-known ancient deity. Can you imagine saying that the Roman Jupiter and the Horned God were the same, and then saying that that meant that Jupiter must have been a god of the wild? It would never fly.
CERN in Ginebra
I don't understand.
Cernunnos was not only good but he was born of both worlds the living and the dead some stories talk about a horned god in the forest killing all men who enter to destroy he was a protector of life but also kind of a crafty god he wasn't alone often keeping female companions which shows a sign of his wish to procreate . I've read alot about god's having children with mortals and monsters but haven't ever came across cernunnos having children of his own which is strange there are so many gaps in the stories and it jumps from timeline to timeline so it's hard to even think about who he is and where he came from let alone what his purpose is
The first sentence of you comment is pure speculation that doesn't engage with the evidence. Under this interpretation, how do you explain his close connection with Mercury?
The green man sightings from my experience with friends, nobody seen horns but it had big muscles. In 1989 summer, it was seen twice in Cumbria. Long Story.
Interesting. Makes sense that he wouldn't have had horns; as far as I'm aware none of the medieval carvings of the Green Man have any. Different god (assuming he is a god; I don't think the evidence supports that. He might be said to have become a god now, though) than the Gaulish Cernunnos, of course, although many Neo-Pagans identify him with the Wiccan God, or at least see some overlap there.
One image of Cernunnos clearly has crab horns=Oceanos! 5:02.
Could you tell me which one that is? And what evidence it is that it's Cernunnos? The image on the mosaic from Verulamium is often identified as Cernunnos, but there is nothing that would support that except that there are things growing from his head. But those things line up better with Oceanus. In order to say that an image of Cernunnos has crab horns, you would have to find something other than just things growing from his head, something like a ram's headed snake or a torc not worn around the neck. Otherwise you're just begging the question.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 To be honest, I have had a hunch that somewhere along the way, both Cernunnos and The Green Man have become associated with Oceanos but I'm speculating on images and information from a past interest. I was really into this stuff about two years ago, looking for images of the deity anywhere that I could. I really felt that the image did show crab pinchers rather than antlers, but I have not seen the statue other than in pictures. I know The ram-headed serpent and torc are usually associated with Cernunnos, so perhaps I am wrong. Here is one of the interesting articles that got me intrigued about an Oceanos link with Cernunnos.
translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=incipesapereaude.wordpress.com/2016/02/11/eine-ungewoehnliche-gallo-roemische-gottheit-oceanus-cernunnos/&prev=search
I also found the image of a Cernunnos-like petroglyph in Fremont very similar to the Val Camonica Cernunnos. I'm wondering if there are any others like this? i.pinimg.com/474x/e6/b5/4c/e6b54ca4670a1f0de9a30b62608b6328--cave-painting-rock-painting.jpg
The mosaic you give a link too is a very interesting one. I don't think then other mosaics representing Oceanus are meant to be identified with Cernunnos, or as an Oceanus-Cernunnos, but this one seems to be. Perhaps it's an idiosyncratic syncretism by the villa owner between the two gods based on his role as a maritime merchant?
I am cernunnos and yes you are right i am also god of water and i am what christians call Jesus.
Faun ears.
Some of those circle images at 25 min remind me of something that was norse.. not sure what
condat - triglav -slavic god
why would the sailors make a statue depicting the god of fire or volcanoes? According to your opinion, just like cernunnos, they wouldn't. Just like your entire hour that I couldn't sit thru, its all your opinion. No proof. He is the god I want him to be.
Vulcan was a god of smiths, and thus of metal work, which could have been part of your cargo. If you didn't watch the whole video, then you didn't see the evidence or the arguments to support my view. An opinion is something you think is true because it feels good; what I presented is based on evidence and reasonable suppositions from that evidence. I wasn't discussing the god your or I want Cernunnos to be; I was trying to figure out what the ancient _Gauls_ thought him to be.
Apparently the Rock Drawings of Valcamonica is located in the Alps. It might interest you that the Ibex; above Cernunnos' right arm, the Ibex only lives either in the Alps; Alpine Ibex or in Spain; Spanish Ibex.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Alpsen.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capra_(genus)
But I gotta wonder. If Cernunnos is holding a Bronze Age torc, why is he wearing a Mesolithic antler headdress?
www.sci-news.com/archaeology/reconstruction-star-carr-headdresses-03781.html
Queen TwilightSparkle hmmmm good point!
Val Camonica. Looks like the egyptian symbol for KA(CHA=C HA=ha means I know to bad other people can't really see me for who I am as they see AH C LOL classic Queen on chess board has oh so many moves but so many she betray the King & he's going to end the game & tabulate oh well). Charles also means warrior & ArTHur means stone why else could only he pull the sword from it(like the Hammer of THor) you see the interfering names in CHarles PHillip(means pill life to get between the representative CH/father & son/TH)ArTHur Ge or Ge, just like RO-TH-S-CH-IL(IL means powerless as LI means powerful)D the name means red(dna/V)shield or skin/niks which is why NYX look her up this might make more sense LOL. Same reason Orion(who was sent by Scorpius) is in front of Taurus & the red dress thing in Matrix I'd watch that part again if you don't remember the symbology, the red shield thing also means that the majority of people/sheeple/programs are being used to insulate(human shields without them really knowing as they can't even come to terms with what they are/this is) the .1% from the creator(or the parts of OSIRIS/nameless one). >> 4.bp.blogspot.com/_77e9ogg9FYY/TEzfFHbhk7I/AAAAAAAAAEU/6Bkf28G2NAE/s1600/nostradamus-7+images.jpg
Here is the KA symbol. www.globalegyptianmuseum.org/images/glos/ka.jpg Great work though don't worry if it seems as if I am speaking from an whole other dimension I haven't rounded out all of the angles THOTH speaks of yet so I understand if this sounds like mad hatter territory like why the rabbit is below Orion where the Bullseye is looking not at this Orion(red dresses) taunting. Don't get me wrong all Tauren's do not seem to be on the same side & as far as the Pleiadian's go from what I can tell they asked for protection only to stab in back like you see symbolically Mithras & the --- S WA S TI KA & the name BULL which means the first L is U'd which look like 1/2 of the swastika the other half is reaping what you sow. It's why you see the Scorpion(Taurus or X's EX it's symbolic she would be a Rhea figure who stole Cronus Zeus/Arthur to try to use against him it's why Scorpio also Eagle. on the Bulls balls. It's why this video & Hercules rescuing PAN(the one who healed & raised the dead also Asclepius name might help). I have a cool video I hope she sees it in time because when Cronus ends it it'll be far to late. ruclips.net/video/yLDJpb-EIso/видео.html. Heck if you watched the last star trek they showed you the prime directive has been broken along with Khan(means K does not know division & then N or division ah(I don't know) K(11). If you saw the show The Pretender it would make sense. Some of us are being used against our selves/our children without our consent(only one real other move like Neo to go to the machine/white bull analogy) & some of us are staying out of the tech business in order to save you & to show those fostering these machinations that they are in way over their head.
What is in his hand what is he doing with it. Zoo keeper geneticist, notice the pan flute next to this "alien" in Prometheus you see the symbology in many movies/shows when you have enough context/variables}learn to play connect the dots like learning to connect the threads to find M Theory{ things will start to be so clear all those old movies/shows(programs) will have a whole new meaning. Why do you think they called Jesus the Mess(chaos)I AH(unknown) HA(I know)I SSEM(FIX) & why they sent the Arecibo message to MESS(C-HA-OS) I ER(ER means to do) which was catalogued by Char(fire)les(the) Messier. I'd read my post I put up before this one below first. If you get confused between Taurus & Pisces don't worry about it there isn't as much daylight between father/son as people have the ability to comprehend as the Scorpius figure Pisces mother is in a rigged position(remainder of unbalance equation the claws on Libra/Scale you see in Nostradamus & Astrologically this is why 13th sign Ophiuchus & why you see the white bull at the scale & Libra/Scale naked with blindfold removed & put back on Sagittarius/Archer/Architect/double crosser. Fishy means cheater/rigged environment Pisces two fish shows you how to fish & has some abilities that might just come in handy(as he is the cheater/rigged environments HEX like LI LI TH is mine or part of what I am like the nameless one in Harry Potter or OSIRIS it's symbolic/allegorical learn to interpret how they did in the beginning with pictures/geometry/color etc.) when the time is right(probably sooner than later).
Pan fyddaf farw caf wledda o grochan Dagda a chael fy aileni i fyw eto
Ritual cauldron,you can see clusters of 3 psilocybin mushrooms.
Where? Perhaps you're misinterpreting the ivy?
Archiologists say this is ophius not cernunnos
I hate to talk about it, but I do believe I had an encounter with him while walking my dog, it started when I looked across the park\field and seen eyes light up across the horizon there were deer and a full pack of coyotes lined up then some huge eyes light up i was automatically drawn in but knew it could kill me in seconds. he has a Firey green ish tinge to him feels very god ish. It took a long time to figure it out, but his only words were Cernunnos now i understand it was his name he introduced himself to me but why???????
the gunderstrop Cauldron is Thracian, not celtic
and depicts a shaman with a Headress
It seems Neopagans needed a Male god
and Latched on to This one who it transpires
was invented by robert Graves..
The Gundestrup cauldron was _made_ by Thracians, but _commissioned_ by Celts. The iconography, i.e., the imagery that expresses religious beliefs, is Celtic. 1. The half-body representation of deity is common in the Celtic Val Camonica region. 2. Val Camonica contains at least four representations of a stag-antlered deity. 3. This deity is always represented in full form, as on the cauldron. 4. The iconography surrounding the Cernunnos figure on the cauldron - bent legs, display of torc, ram-headed serpent - shows up in Gaul. 5. The thunder god who is represented on one of the panels, is depicted in Gaul with a wheel, just as here. 6. On the triumphal arch at Orange, among the booty captured from the Gauls is a helmet with horns with knobs on the end with a wheel between them. Such a knob-horned helmet is found on a panel of the GC where it is worn by a figure helping the thunder god hold his wheel. There are also non-iconographical elements. The two that come to mind are 1. the men playing carnyxes, a Gaulish kind of horn, and 2. the Gaulish style clothing Cernunnos is wearing. The evidence is as overwhelming that the cauldron contains Celtic imagery as it is that it was made by Thracians.The "Horned God" concept of Wicca - which is not what this video is about; did you watch it? - wasn't from Robert Graves. _His_ sin was inventing the triple Goddess. The Horned God comes from Margaret Murray, in her _God of the Witches_. But again, this video isn't about the Wiccan Cernunnos, it's about the Gaulish one, and those are very different animals.The idea that the antlered figure on the cauldron depicts a shaman is an assumption with no evidence behind it.
@@ceisiwrserith2224 except that it clearly depicts a human wearing a Headdress, but if you do not wish to see this, it is not..lol..
Nope. It's a human with antlers coming out of his hair. See, for instance, the hair on this panel of the cauldron: www.alamy.com/stock-photo-panel-of-the-gundestrup-cauldron-2nd-or-1st-century-bc-artist-werner-28347330.html. It is also certain that the later images from Roman Gaul saw the antlers coming out if his head, rather than from a headdress. The same with the Val Camonica images, on which the Gundestrup image is based. You can't base your conclusions on just one image; you have to look at all of them if you are to come up with an interpretation.
Blessed are the Vague,
for they may sort of
Inherit whatever..
Demon's have man different names and are "Gods" of many things. Does Cernunnos look familiar? Ever watched Princess Mononke? Yep, he was made after this Demon.
+Dan “El Argentino Americano” Anime Interesting. That movie is life.
Davy Whitezel Yeah, they're both Guardians of the forest and Animals, both gods of life/fertility and death
+Dan “El Argentino Americano” Anime Of course, the whole point of this video is that Cernunnos is _not_ a god of forest, animals, life/fertility, and death.
Ceisiwr Serith I know that, but what the you don't seem to understand know is that these deities are "God" many things and they're reoccurring, with different names and meanings. Besides many historians say these gods are the same. My grandmother was a Wiccan. I'm not, I don't dabble in that shit, but I can assure you that Cern is a demon and he goes by many names and serve as many different gods with different and similar purposes.
+Dan “El Argentino Americano” Anime You do realise 'demons' are purely christian concepts, and denote beings of malevolence, since Cernunnos and the celtic religions are immensely older than christianity, no. It's not a demon.
Prior to judaism the closest was the greek 'Daemon' were literal beings of happiness.
Being as Cernunnos is far from Greece, far older than the bible, and completely unlike the beings of any other religious; stop talking out your ass.
This is a nonsensical analysis in which you are only projecting your own perceptions and beliefs onto something from a cultural tradition that is completely alien to our own. Because there is no Rosetta Stone for pre-Roman Celtic mythology, we can only speculate what anything means.
If the maker of this video had expressed his ideas with more humbleness, more "this might be what this means", I would watch the rest. He sounds far too assertive.
You're right, there's no Rosetta Stone for Celtic mythology. So we must work with what we have, and in the case of Cernunnos we have a lot of images, many of which contain a lot of symbolism which we must interpret as best we can. For instance, there is a clear connection with the tricephalous and with Mercury, and we have to make sense of that. At the very least we can see Cernunnos as a god of material prosperity; the connection with Mercury, purses of coins, and the torc indicate that. We then have to ask why. The result is an analysis which may be wrong, but is not nonsensical. In the process, though, we can discard the "Lord of the Animals" and god of the forest identification and start anew. If we are to understand anything about Gaulish religion, we then have to start a semiotic analysis. Is mine wrong? I don't know, but a replacement for it should be one that explains the evidence better, not one that causes us to shrug our shoulders in despair.
_All_ theories are "this is what I believe." The attitude with which I present my evidence is simply that taken in most academic articles on the subject.
Look, it's one thing to a certain a hypothesis which everyone should be able to without me completely castrated, but wow this is just lousy research. Doing a couple of years of research, even a decade's worth, does little to prove anything when the research is done poorly and or with double standards in play. Plus, he doesn't seem to understand the definition of liminality, based on his response when individuals question. Look, even to the people who casually regard him as the god of animals, which they recognize that it has to do with our connection to the world created by humankind a the artificial that is a given value, such as gold/Commerce in general and that of the connection to the natural world, to which every celt was aware that we are apart of and in no way dominant or rule over. Cernunnos is a god above, between, and below, it all. The tile of Lord of the hunt, is an embodiment of the understanding between life death and sacrifice in order to live in the greater sense of the Spiral of life. In some people's view, the cycle. Your statements Doolittle to help understand the value of what can be gleaned from seeking out connection with the god himself. All Celtic deities have a connection to the natural world! all of course there are going to be other animals on The Cauldron with other deities such as the connection of crows, canines in general, plants, and elements. But it is he who holds the deadly and kingly/wise serpent with the rams horns which commonly denote a sovereignty that is divinely given when possessed by those who "naturally" do not. Sitting in between the symbol rank in society though not seen through the eyes foreign cultures, as even rightful Kings that have abused 4 broken the natural Covenant of the Celts, have been disposed or removed from their sovereignty by Mananan Mac Lir himself or by other means.
How do you explain the strong connection with Mercury? That's the one thing that I never see other people tackle. Pagans have deities for things that are important in their lives. Once they become at all urbanized (like the Gauls were in part) and develop a merchant economy (which the Gauls had), then they will either come up with new gods or adapt old gods to deal with those aspects of their societies. The idea that all Pagan, or even all Celtic, deities had to do with nature is simply a modern version of the myth of the Noble Savage."Doolittle." Lol, hysterical typo.
ok listen I'll just say this...swimming around the endless pool of 'soul searching' as you call it was NOT the intentions of our creator. quit the vain quest for life ever lasting....its yours for the taking you just need to say yes to what he has in store for us and enernity can be spent by his side. Our Lord doesn't want you to waste any more time on this futile quest. its unnatural. let him in. Praise God.
One of the difficulties that Christians have in communicating with non-Christians is that they project their own concerns on the non-Christians. Worse is that they often seem unable to escape their own categories of thought. Imagine a Buddhist not understanding how Christians attempt to achieve Nirvana by placing their faith in Jesus. The idea would be absurd, since Christians aren't _interested_ in Nirvana. The relevance here is that I'm _not_ searching for "life ever lasting." I'm concerned about living this life in a way that most approaches the Good as possible, that achieves, to the greatest extent possible, Excellence and Quality. I will do this, and the afterlife will take care of itself.
Ceisiwr Serith conjecture vs faith. we will pray for you.
I've seen my gods with my eyes. I've heard them with my ears. Neither conjecture nor faith. And you're still trying to apply Christian categories where they don't apply. "Faith" is a Christian concept, and has nothing to do with Paganism. We're about orthopraxy (doing the right thing), and you're about orthodoxy (believing the right thing). Until you get that, you will never be understand Paganism, and you will never be able to reach one of us.
okay i understand kind of...which vid should i watch first io get a basic understanding of paganism thanks
Thank you for kind reply. Unfortunately, I haven't spent enough time on youtube looking at videos about Paganism to give recommendations. There might be some about At nDraiocht Fein (ADF), the group I belong to, that will give you at least an idea of what some Pagans are up to. You might also want to check out my own videos; I have ones of rituals and book recommendations. (I think the only ones that specifically deal with modern Paganism is on Wicca, but you might want to check out the ones on Greece to get an idea on ancient Paganism). You might also want to check out my website, www.ceisiwrserith.com, especially, under the Paganism tab, "What does it mean to be a Pagan?" and "Why Paganism?" Good luck with your work, and thank you for be willing to understand Paganism before talking to Pagans.
Cerunnos..a beautiful ancient God of Nature, turned into a completely different character by both christianity & "satanism", SAD.
thankfully there are still those who know & respect the TRUE origins & meaning of this God, & it is not christian nor "satanism", nor muslim nor judiasm.
Don't you see my family crest of England and Ireland to the right of him🤫🤫🤫?????? And the ONLY animals on his right😂😂😂 the great unveil I am. It's the father and the son. My family crest of England and Ireland.
Horrible