Installing Whole House Lightning Protection | Ask This Old House
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- Опубликовано: 4 дек 2018
- Ask This Old House landscape contractor Roger Cook travels to central Florida to install a lightning protection system
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Lightning protection was installed with the help of Guy Maxwell of Maxwell Lightning Protection of Florida (www.maxwelllightning.com/).
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Installing Whole House Lightning Protection | Ask This Old House
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My father installed 4 rods himself right on top of the house, cable is through exterior too and grounded several feet below. We get a lot of lighting & T-Storms during summer. So, we're blessed, there has never been any issues.
Speaking as a retired electrical engineer;
When a lightning strike occurs, the bolt creates a path of ionized air from cloud to ground. That's why you see the flash. That path conducts really well. The idea is two fold. The rods on the roof will leak off charge from the air over the house so it doesn't build up there as much. That's why more than one rod on the roof. Hopefully it will hit your neighbors house or the tall tree nearby, or the utility pole on the street that is taller and has a grounded conductor.
Then if it does build up too much or too quickly and hits your house,, the ground wire will "guide" the ionized path to follow it to ground as it is the lowest resistance path. But that ionized air is several thousand degrees hot!
Conductor in attic is a very bad idea, should be on exterior. Sorry about that "wife acceptance factor".
I would drive the ground rod several feet from the house, not next to it. Several on 6ft centers would be even better. And I wouldn't tie it to the electrical service ground as that can be a path for the surge right back into your house wiring. And the lightning ground system should be better than your service panel ground anyway as it needs to handle thousands of volts, not just 120 or240 volt faults.
All ground rods must be bonded together to meet code. Also the energy will not make it back into the house as the ground is a conductor, not your electrical panel.
@@networkingdude The ground bar in your electrical panel is connected to the rod outside. Sometimes this goes thru the electrical meter socket.
However, code also requires that at the main panel, the NEUTRAL bar is "bonded" (by a screw) to the ground bar. This means the Neutral on everything in your house (one side of each receptacle) is also effectively connected to ground and the house ground rod.
At a lightning strike the main part of the strike hopefully goes to ground via the lightning rod ground if the connection is low enough resistance. But the ground can only absorb so much current at a time and for a fraction of a second the area around the rod for several feet will be charged with thousands of volts. This why it's best for the lightning system to be away from the building with several rods spaced several feet apart to spread out the charge.
Also lightning is NOT direct current. Once the strike begins it oscillates at a high frequency, which is why you hear it on radios, particularly AM. Any sharp bend in the grounding system wires forms an inductor which is like resistance at high frequencies and reduces the ability of the ground system to take the charge to ground. So all bends should be gradual, maybe 6 inch radius minimum.
@JP Hello. May I ask under what circumstances should lightning protection be installed at a normal house ? I have a three-story house with an attic , no basement, and there is a house of the same height next to it. It often rains where the house is located
@@abrandpluckedoutofthefire8043 If your area has a high incidence of lightning storms, or if you are on a high piece of ground without taller things around you makes you especially vulnerable. But it can hit most anywhere. If you have metal on your roof, like a chimney cap or antenna, it should be grounded at minimum.
@JP Thank you for reply
Sometimes I think "This Old House" should be called something like "Numbskull Renovations". As if running a lightning rod ground cable through the attic wasn't bad enough, they screw it down to the pine framing with copper tabs. Then they don't mention the necessity of bonding the lightning rod ground to the electrical system ground. They've built a system to transfer lightning from outside to inside the house.
That is a great setup! I never thought about protecting my home like that. I have had lightening hit just a few feet away from the house a couple of times and it has really done some damage to everything inside.
But the cable inside the attic attached to bare framing. Wouldn't that cause a fire if you had a lightning strike.
the video is interesting and informative , I've been installing lightning arrester across saudi arabia, the video didn't show how you connected the surge device in relation with the grounding and lightning aerial.
The surge device goes to a 2 pole breaker in the electrical breaker box. In Residential dwellings in the USA we have two hots of 120v so a double pole breaker goes to those two hot legs in the breaker panel. There are neutral and ground wires on the surge device and they are connected in the panel as well. Usually the electrician tries to place the double pole breaker for the surge protector close to the main breaker (usually at the top of the circuit panel). That may involve relocating another breaker to another spot in the panel. So the surge device is just connected to a two pole breaker in the electrical panel.
Notice no topography mentioned before hammering ground bar into ground. Ie checking for other utilities that may be buried
While lightning rods CAN ground a lightning strike, that's not the goal. Lightning rods ground the charge buildup that causes lightning strikes to happen in the first place.
I'm glad someone already said this... 95% of commenters don't realize it's for leaching charge from the local atmosphere...
some of the time, not all the time
@Fact Checker total and utter rubish
"some of the time, not all of the time". what are you talking about? You think there is lightning occuring without electricity? Your comment makes no sense. When a cloud builds up a charge strong enough for it to discharge to the earth, the electrical field from that cloud extends well down below the surface of the earth. It has to, by definition. Else how else do you think the lightning bolt knows where the closest conductor is? Electricity doesnt peek out from the cloud and look for the tallest tree, it doesnt have eyes or yardsticks or testing equipment to find the best way to go. It knows that from the electrical field it generates. The huge number of electrons on the bottom of the cloud push down on the electrons on everything below it, which push back just as strong if they are in nonconductors like a fiberglass pole, but in the case of a conductor, like a wet tree or a lightning rod, the electric field slides through the conductor, and lets the charge bleed off. Now a metal rod conducts better than a tree, so more charge is allowed to bleed off and hopefully the total charge in the cloud isnt allowed to build up enough to cause a lightning bolt. A tall wet tree isnt as good at conducting, so more often enough charge builds up to cause a lightning bolt when then shoots down the same path to ground, i e., through the tree. Lightning rods dont sometimes conduct electrical charges and sometimes not. This happens everytime, not just "some of the time, not all of the time.". why would you even think that?!!
there's a reason capacitors are flat. pokey things leech voltage way easier, which lowers the capacitance to the ground helping the lightning choose somewhere else to go.
What stops the threaded bolt on the roof from rusting out. Why is the through the roof bolt not copper or brass. Why change to steel when it does not have the same conductivity as brass or copper, I would have thought dissimilar metals so far apart on the noble scale would encourage electrolysis in damp conditions.
Stainless which is compatible with copper or brass.
Why yes, the galvanic corrosion is a concern, especially on the copper parts; but why would you put the least conductive part of the entire system intentionally being surrounded by the flammable wood and asphalt of the roof when you are attempting to shunt huge amounts of electricity to ground.
When you put the rod into the ground, how do you know your not going to hit any utilities?
Will the copper burn the wood?
Man that’s a lot of copper 😲
"coppah"
TOPmusicman8 😂
You getting ideas? Metal prices are kinda low right now lmao
copper aint worth shit tho
Maybe that's the real reason they ran the copper through the attic and enclosed it in a pipe on side of house.
Does the lightning rod also pull electrons from the air aswell???
Hello could you explain me about how we calculate conductor size for lightning ?
What size was the grounding conductor. (Cable)
Came here after the livestream. Great job!
Do you bury the top of the ground rod or leave it uncovered?
You sink the rod below ground level so no one trips on it or hits it with the mower. But If you're area requires inspection then you leave the connection exposed until it's checked. Then you can cover it.
Was the electrician off today? Why's Roger there?
S Rx The fact checker was off
Very informative, thank you.
#LoveIsNotTourism
What?
The rods charge the passing rain clouds to prevent a strike , believe it or not .
Well, if a lighting hits the rod, the copper cable will get hot and it can couse a fire because it has a close contact to the wood. Is this true?
Wouldnt it be better to run a thick copper wire up a tall tree right next to the home and ground that wire? It would be taller and would keep burning away from the home. If there isnt a tall tree close to the home then maybe a metal tower for a wind turbine or ham radio tower would be a good location for a lightning rod?
Interesting, might sound like a daft question but is there a very high incidence of strikes in your area of the US, we’re in the UK and have never come across a domestic property strike although they must happen. Thanks for sharing 👍
I can't speak to whether they are direct strikes but here in Atlanta, GA we do see a lot of device damage as a result of lightning during storms. I do IT and other technology consulting so I am called in to replace equipment damaged during thunderstorms. I have an electrical\electronic\scientific background but I can't speak to the pathways involved by the lightning, maybe through the power transformers, or wet ground and wet homes, I'll have to think about that, but the result is pretty clear. Lots of damaged computers, routers, TVs, audio amplifiers, whole house audio components and so on.
The guys touch on indirect hits just slightly at about 3:20 when they do the Breaker box surge protection device.
A friend of mine lives in a wooded area and has seen a receiver, TV, DVD player, and a multichannel amp (twice) get hit from two storms within roughly the last year. We're about to do some serious prevention work in the near future.
My wife's parents house is on a mountain top, and everytime there is a thunderstorm, they had to turn off their main switch (30 amp fusible switch) otherwise, the fuses will be busted, and also bust up their TV receiver.
I live near the Tallahassee Florida area and it's definitely one of the worst places in the US for lighting strikes but I only recall a couple houses being destroyed by lightning over the years.
I live in Oklahoma (tornado alley) and we had an indirect strike around 2015 at our house. Fried several electronics and we had a hefty repair bill for our air conditioning unit. Just saw on the news that lightning struck an apartment building through an air vent and busted a toilet into smithereens! Luckily there was no fire!
Florida is constantly getting strikes!
Good thing this smart homeowner put a lock on his panel/main disconnect to the house in case of an emergency
Well 1) the real question is why is the panel outside and 2) this is a reupload and was probably filmed years ago when metal prices were higher and metal theft more common...could be to deter theft.
The 2020 NEC requires a service disconnect OUTSIDE the home. This is so the Fide dept can shut off in case of a fire before they put water on it. Not sure if they can prevent you from locking it tho. FD should have bolt cutters on the truck if needed.
That Copper Will Be Stolen The Next Day ! :D
Copper and brass is used for the whole install, then the main rod on the roof is connected with a piece of steel all thread. Doesn't seem to make sense, or am I wrong? @ 1:10
i didnt understand that either. they also didnt use any corrosion inhibiting compounds in between the dissimilar metals. i do not think this will work long term because of that steel all-thread..
@@maxchartier there WILL be some bi-metallic reaction there for sure
Also, huge amounts of power are going through it, which is why you want to use copper. But hey, let’s put steel through the part that is going THROUGH the wood of the roof. Steel, the metal known for conducting electricity better than copper. Also for cooling back down after being heated up faster than copper... oh wait, no; it stays hotter and conducts worse.
I would be happier with a glass / combo insulator myself. You would in my mind have to be careful about what this wire in the attic gets close to that is grounded. Nails or screws should not be an issue as they should not be ground potential. It's all about attraction here, wood should not provide that but it's all about the ground potential. Better to have the wire in the attic encased and also grounded.
that wire is the ground, and the path of least resistance
The copper cable connected to the ground rod will eventually oxidize and turn green. This most likely will cause the "wire to rod" connection to fail. This connection should have been protected from moisture and the elements. With the connection buried underground, one will never notice the oxidation.
Eric R Dont talk rubbish, by your logic, overhead busbars in outdoor substation compounds will fail and copper transformer tails on overhead power lines will fail too. The oxidisation is a thin layer on the outside of the copper. The connection between joints will be mechanically sound whether green or not
In many neighborhoods that copper would be vandalized and scrapped
HOWdy T-O-H, ...
Thanks
COOP
the WiSeNhEiMeR from Richmond, INDIANA
...
why stop at 20 ft? go the full 100ft!
So how the rods actually work is they bleed off charge slowly in order to actually prevent lightning.. but in the event of a strike yes it does disperse the hit.. but the idea is that it bleeds off the charge so there is no lightening to your house
I'm not impressed with how they seal the holes they made at the roof peak with just blobs of caulk.
Roofing asphalt, not caulk
Flammable stuff. Right on the least conductive part of the “system” they have.
What happened to bonding lightning ground to electrical ground and incoming gas. And was there any metal within 6ft of the cable in the attic area. Cause if so it will need bonded as well. Pretty sure I saw the name Maxwell on the equipment. Big outfit out of OHIO.
Good eye, typical for big outfits - screw up the highest number of homes, opening a market in the future for further upgrades/fixes, which they are already way ahead of you on and will see you in the future for again lol. From concrete, stucco, to lightning rods, never trust a big name that is always looking for new employee's
The NEC states that the ground and the neutral buss must be bonded.
Here in the Philippines we had problems with the ground conductor
ground conductor of the utilities company had problems reaching the ground sometimes. I had to run a neutral to a good grounding conductor so that we will have power. (We have 240-0 line, single phase 13.8 KV feeding the XFMR)
One big problem we experienced with bonding the neutral bus and my ground bus is that when that situation happen, the neutral load of the XFMR will be coursed thru my neutral conductor into my grounding system and burn it up.
@@magsasaka1027 Very interesting, thanks for sharing that!
Why a reupload?
Michael Lim it’s a shortened version
Why inside? that sounds like a fire hazard too me if it strikes.
how? its simply a ground wire that sends the lighting to earth
I'm thinking the same thing. It's unsheilded copper against wood. With a billion volts passing through it, that copper is bound to get hot. I've also wondered why churches put rods on steeples. Total lack of faith if you ask me ;)
That has never been proven to be dangerous.
All the houses that had it were burned down so no evidence remains.
.
High voltage and high wattage in a wire will heat it up so yeah having that inside your house is stupid AF.
You are talking a fractions of a milliseconds. There will be hardly any resistance or time to heat up that conductor.
@@STXVIEC unless if finds a path of lesser resistance within your property, totally dangerous
Generally lightning is accompanied by rain, so wouldnt that help the grounding rods in dissipating that power?
Depending on the soil. It could percolate through sandy soil fairly quickly but clay would not perk well.
And T-storms generally last a several minutes to an hour, but it would likely take much longer for the subsoil to be wetted down 10-20 feet by the accompanying rain.
I was surprised to see a piece on lightning rods, so I came to the comments before viewing the video. I no longer remember the source, but I was under the impression that lightning rods (as typically installed) had been debunked many years ago. Back to the video. This is scary. I doubt if those compression clamps are rated for several million volts and the friction fit grounding rod coupling will probably decouple enough to degrade connectivity as the soil shifts (not that the rod would be very effective in any event). Thinking about the rods... The rod is likely copper coated steel, connected to a threaded brass coupling, connected to a threaded steel rod with an unknown coating (nickel or zinc?), screwed into the compression clamp. I betcha that with the different levels of resistance that assembly will self destruct in a nanosecond.
12 inches is a small one.
My "Good Practice" Is To Just Spray Salt Around TThe Grounding Rod. IDo That For My Areals And Antenna Grounds
By 0:20 you already know it won’t protect you from lightening surges that come through telephone poles or power lines cause those rods only provide a path for the lightening from the sky via the rods. Not via power lines or cables like telephone cables for example. Hence this video’s Flag ship device is only one part of total house protection
Wrong..
At about 3:20 they install a breaker box surge protector. The principle on this is that any surge that comes in on the main line or any other circuit due to an indirect strike, will cause the protection device to route to ground and blow a dual 50 amp breaker. The 50 amp breaker is actually protecting the protection device from taking a sustained flow. The device has to be as close to the incoming AC lines as possible so that it forms the shortest possible path for the surge. Shorter than any other circuit in the house. There are a number of more thorough videos about these devices, their function and installation.
Isn’t this a re upload?
Netflix: Are you still watching?
Someones Daughter: 2:57
Yep
What is the tool used to cut the threaded rod? at 1:30
Cordless bandsaw. Very handy for cutting rod and conduit in the field when an extension cord is impractical.
ive been a lightning conductor engineer for nearly 40 years and have to say, that system is a total pile of dangerous crap
M m too much to go into on here but they don’t even seem to understand the basics of lightning protection
@@bum-edwhu66 is it safe to park a car on the earthing area ? Or have a water pipeline near the earthing area?
@@deleted1070 yep, electricity will always travel to earth
I was an EE at an Army ammunition plant. This installation does not even come close to being lightning protection. In the first place the idea is to get the lightning AWAY from the building, not to BRING IT IN.
@@bum-edwhu66 Would it be smarter to keep the wire external and also isolate it with ceramic or rubber to minimize contact on the structure?
How many misters this device cover??
I thought the protection consisted and driving lightning away from your house, no making it run right through it. 🤔
It's to drive lightening to the ground thru the shortest route possible
This is a horrible system. It’s absolutely atrocious.
How much would this cost?
Today the copper is more than the labor.
It might be cheaper to build another bigger house next door!
oh my.......🤣 ...this old house.
Excellent Video. Extremely helpful.
Why the wire inside the attic doesnt have any insulation? I mean there is like zero chances to have someone touching the wire when a lighting hits but its there
It’s lightning cable. Do you think thin insulation will protect you if you’re grabbing it? Probably not. Lightning will go right through it. Tens to hundreds of millions of volts.
1:24 He Did Secured The Cable Wrong, It Shopuld Loop Around And He Should Secure It With Equal Pressure To The Plate, Now Its Not Like That !
Lightning ever hit twice in the same spot?
Yes, it is possible. The "lightning doesn't strike twice" saying isn't accurate
Hits the Empire State building all the time!
Not in this case because after the first strike, this house will burn down and not be there for the second strike!
What happens if someone touches the rod cable while a lightning is passing through it?
It's rip for them
Just don’t do it
You see your creator sooner than planned.
Someone will say "Oh look, Bruno's extra crispy today"!
Curtains. Curtains I tell ya. Curtains.
How about replacing that old air conditioner!
I thought the idea was to shed the lightning away from your house? This appears to bring it into your attic before disbursement to the ground. (?)
Lightning will strike where it wants. It is not possible to redirect it away from a structure. Unless you live next to the Eiffel Tower perhaps.
@@ClicketyClack no you redirect it AROUND the structure, not through it
@@ClicketyClack Sure it is. By providing a more attractive (lower resistance) path to ground. If you want to see real lightning protection, look at a space launch pad at Cape Kennedy. See those four towers around and higher than the vehicle. With wires run between them.That's how it is protected in Florida.
Unfortunately Bens house was struck by lightning and burned to the ground.
Piercing the ridge is a really bad idea. I would be more concerned about the roofing cement failing and causing a leak ,than a one in a million chance of a lightning strike.
In reality having a lightning protection system on a structure does attract lightning strikes due to the air terminations creating a larger streamer compared to a structure that is non-conducting. the step leader from the cloud is looking for a ground streamer to make a connection. it would be interesting to see if the spacings of the air terminations comply to the correct rolling sphere protection radius.
Good Job. There are many people here that doesn't have knowledge about electricity and standards and writes a lot of bullshit...
Running the cable inside the house ridiculous
No, but your strong opinion coupled with your scientific illiteracy is pretty funny, and sad
Why People Don`t Use Diodes To Put The Electricity Into Ground And Not From Ground?
A Lot of People Get Sensetive Devices Killed By The Static Electricity That Comes From ground And Thats Why I put In parallel so all the unwanted electiricty goes into the ground and not the other way around, i put few diodes with diferent values in paralell so if one blows, the another one will work and if lighttning strikes , they will be fine i guess. or am i wrong?
it works good for the computer because without grounding diodes, the computer froze many many times a month, now when i made the diodes to ground from pc, it have never hapened not even once.
There are so many things wrong with this video. If lightning hit the rod on the roof there is no guarantee the strike will follow the ground line in the attic and it could jump to a lower impedance path in the house and cause greater damage. The two grounds used to make a 20 ft rod MUST be welded. The ground line MUST be welded to the ground rod. All ground rods MUST be connected together and in turn be connected to the ground at the service entrance of the house. He said cable, tv, phone, etc has surge protectors but those must be grounded at the service entrance also. I bet they weren’t. I don’t see how this installation passes NEC.
Welded AY LMAO
Sorry. I stopped reading at "ground at the service entrance". omg. It will fry computers, tv, frig, a/c. There is also guarantee that the lightning will follow the ground line as it has lower impedance than anything else.
Local code supersedes the NEC
Make sure to also draw your anti seabear circles. What a waste of money lol
My anti-sea-bear circle works great. I believe everything I read in Fake Science Monthly. lol
Houses burn down all the time from lightning. It’s super unlikely, but it’s not like it’s some made up thing. Some people worry about things that are statistically outrageously unlikely.
Ur dumb it hit his house already should have had it done before he moved in would have paid off already with that 1 strike
I've seen strikes in two different homes in my life, and resulting sensitive electronic damage both times. It's not made up and isn't as rare as you think, especially if in the Southern states.
Nice job but theoretically a waste of money in this case. What are the odds of lightning striking twice.
Where is technology? Why aren't HUGE, fast-charging (the speed of lightning) capacitors in every house? Imagine: one lightning strike and never another electric bill… for the entire street.
That would be bad for corporate profits of the utilities.
i’ve always wondered if it will ever be possible to harvest the power of lightning too
The guy @ 1:00 is doing a bad job of hiding the fact he is reading a script lol
#cmcesertec
Nice - it felt so scripted. I suppose it's easier for them to move the video forward with super short, scripted scenes. Effective video!
Keep in mind that while this makes a strike on your house safer, it also increases the chance of lightning striking your house in the first place. This system is probably more important if your roof is higher than most other objects anywhere nearby, like if your house is on a hill or a two story among single story homes.
They say lightning rods don’t attract lightening and it’s an old myth but if these rods don’t attract lightening then how are they expected to always work? What’s the guarantee that lightening will hit a rod in a specific place on the roof and not the rood in between the rods if they don’t attract? Logic dictates that for this system to always work, it must attract lightening to eliminate randomness of the strikes on the roof.
Those aren’t actors, it’s a real interaction. 🙄
I think this was mislabelled. This should have called Everything Wrong With This Type of Lightning Protection. Routing a cable through the attic-wrong. Steel threaded rod connecting the point on the roof-wrong. Ground rod only 8 feet in length -wrong. No checking for utility lines before driving rods into the ground-wrong. No series of lightning rods in the ground connected with copper cable-wrong. etc., etc. .
P
P
This is a repost.
Waste of money
@@theclueguy3388 and the chance of getting hit by lightning is very very very very low
a cheaper alternative is to just install whole house surge protector
@@STXVIEC did you watch until the end? They installed a whole house surge protector as well as the rods
When your house is struck by lightning and it's burning down can you post a video of it so we can laugh.Report highlights. During 2007-2011, U.S. local fire departments responded to an estimated average of 22,600 fires per year that were started by lightning. These fires caused an average of nine civilian deaths, 53 civilian injuries, and $451 million in direct property damage per year
JC_wolf 64 He made it apparent that it’s happened to him before
Terrible idea to place high current and high voltage inside the house. This is against NEC best practices. That company should be fined. Great way to burn your house down.
Someone should tell him that a lighting rod prevents lighting. It’s primary function is not to “disperse the lightning into the ground”
A lightning rod doesn't prevent lightning. It can attract it, though, if it was going to strike nearby. So he's wrong, but not for the reason you think.
@@jej3451, maakjar, You both are wrong. Lightening rods do not prevent lightening strikes. The wire just gives it a direct path to earth. Also, the rods only attract a strike if it is close enough to hit the ridge of your building, and it's much better to direct it to earth, which is a natural ground.
@@augustreil You said nothing that contradicted me.
He said adding the rods won’t increase lightning strikes to his house...that it doesn’t “attract” lightning....Then why does a tower get struck more than anything around it? It’s the same principle...I think the odds are greater that his house will get struck more “with” the rods than “without” the rods. The lightning is looking for the easiest way to get into the earth. I think the guy is lying so his business doesn’t get struck.
T Jam it’s more about height instead of material, a tower attracts lighting because it’s the highest point of that area. In this case I don’t think the extra feet would significantly attract more lightning to his house
Dude use isolated cable! don't press the raw copper into the wooden beams! Also, considering lightning rod mechanics, why not put it away from the house!?
Miquel Vico why not? What do you mean isolated cable? Do you mean use insulated cable? If you put the rods away from the house. Then the lightning may still strike your house and not the rods.
Insulated cable would melt and be a higher fire hazered than bare wire.
Insulated, Non-insulated, makes no difference.
@@Fusiongearz Melting rubber is a barrier between white-hot copper and dry wood, not a perfect barrier, but at least the heat sorce ain't being mechanically pressed against the fuel sorce.
_Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt._
Why do you need lighting protection? Wood is a horrible conductor of electricity. Lighting striking houses is extremely rare.
Everything is a conductor if you push enough voltage through it. The guy in this vid already had one strike that fried all his appliances.