Level Up Your Combat Phase | The Command Zone 607 | MTG EDH Magic Gathering
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- Опубликовано: 11 июн 2024
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Show Notes:
Math may be for blockers, but the rules are for everyone. Today we’re walking through everything you need to know to navigate your combat phase to perfection. Rules expert Murph joins Rachel to break it down step by step - literally. We’ll cover crazy keyword interactions (including BANDING) and give you all the tools you need to master the art of war!
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Relevant Links:
Josh Murphy:
Twitter: @alsonamedjosh
The Power of Priority (and The Stack) | The Command Zone 267:
• The Power of Priority ...
Rules Magic Players Keep Getting Wrong | The Command Zone 521:
• Rules Magic Players Ke...
Homebrew Commander w/ The Professor and Wedge | Game Knights 18:
• Homebrew Commander w/ ...
Outlaws of Thunder Junction w/Taalia Vess | Game Knights 69:
• Outlaws of Thunder Jun...
The End Step:
Commander’s Herald Spellify:
commandersherald.com/games/sp...
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Commander Rules and Ban List:
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Timestamps:
00:00:00 - Intro
00:05:24 - Level Up Your Combat Phase
00:07:14 - Combat Steps
00:31:20 - Mastering Combat
00:44:42 - Keywords
01:07:52 - Goad
01:23:46 - Banding
01:32:38 - To the Listeners
01:35:52 - Spellify
#magicthegathering #mtg #commander #mtgcommander #edh #podcast #commandzone 
Игры
CORRECTION at 23:25! Murph states here that you order the blockers in the Combat Damage step, but it is ACTUALLY in the Declare Blockers step before moving to Combat Damage. This ensures that you get priority again after blockers are ordered. Our apologies for the confusion.
If this video went through without any errors, that would have been the most unlikely event in human history.
Nice episode.
I still have a question about 'indestructible'.
Let's say i have a 'lightning bolt' in hand, a 'toxic deluge' in hand and the opponent has a 4/4 indestructible creature.
Is it possible to cast the lightning bolt onto the 4/4 to assign 3 damage to it to make it a 4/1 and then cast toxic deluge for 1 to get rid of the indestructible creature or do you still have to pay 4 life to get rid of it?
@@DjavoJ No. Damage does not reduce toughness (Arena displays it as the toughness being reduced, but that's just for simplicity sake and not how the rules work). Dealing 3 damage to a 4/4 makes it a 4/4 with 3 damage marked on it, not a 4/1. If you cast the Deluge with X=1, then it would be a 3/3 with 3 damage marked on it, and it survives since it's indestructible. You'd have to forego the Bolt and just cast the Deluge with X=4 or more to kill it.
@@Natedogg2 that was a thing that always confused me. Thanks for the clarification.🙂
@@Natedogg2 so even if it wasn't indestructible i wouldn't get rid of the 4/4 with the combination 3 damage marked on and -1/-1-ning, right?
To make an analogy (it's just for me to remember it better) the base power and toughness is like a shell/frame of the creature and with -X/-X effects i 'attack the shell and with damage inflicting effects i target the 'soft' part of the creature. Okay this analogy doesn't work perfectly, but i think i got it, if the conclusion i made at the beginning is right.
Edit: it would still take it out. There was an error in my thought process. Nvm.🙈
Rachel has just become the face of the command zone at this point lol. I’m here for it.
They did an amazing job choosing her to carry the mantle. Such an amazing person who has a vast knowledge of the game and the ability to provide that knowledge in an informative and caring manner.
Rachel is bad ass
Yeah I will say that Rachel has become the face of command zone, and I love how she explains things it actually makes me understand way more by watching videos with interaction and stuff like these videos with the way she explains things and goes in depth.
I miss her on Commander's Sphere. But it beats not seeing her in anything at all
@@Maverickstyg same, dude. That show was unlike any other magic podcast. But yeah, she was a very good choice
Without a doubt, one of the most important things mentioned in this video is that "Tapped and attacking" does not give you attack triggers because they weren't declared as an attacker. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people make this exact mistake.
The NOISE I made when yall talked about First Strike and Ninjutsu startled one of cats awake. Thats INSANE that it never occurred to me before.
I love watching videos like this because I always forgot things like this. Always surprises me simply due to my inability to remember
It’s especially great with Goro Goro and Satoru! If you attack with a First Stike + Haste then Ninjitsu in a ninja, you end up getting two 5/5 dragons.
One thing my playgroup is bad about is assuming they're dead before attackers are finished being declared. One guy will move to combat try to alpha strike the table and send one creature over to a player to take them out of the game, that player will start scooping up their cards before all attackers are declared. And here I am sitting with an aetherize in my hand and I have to blow my cover to tell them not to pick their cards up yet. Then the attacking player won't attack with everything because now they have info they shouldn't have had as they started attacking.
We have let them scoop and miss out on the rest of the game. Burn you learn, I guess. Genuinely seen it happen once and we all wait now
23:15 Blockers are ordered during the declare blockers step, not during the combat damage step. Players have a round of priority after order has been chosen to respond before damage is dealt.
I came in the comments for that. This is very important for using combat effects appropriately.
Thank you! When I got to this part I was screaming internally. That’s a very important part that they got wrong. You declare the order that you will assign damage during the declare blockers step, then in the damage step you assign lethal damage to each creature.
Can't believe they messed this up. And it's sooo important too for possible later tricks during the declare blockers step when players have priority.
Yup, very disappointing.
You're correct! We looked this up after recording and missed this in the edit. Sorry for the confusion. You DO order blockers in the Declare Blockers step.
I've been playing magic for 20 years and I learned a LOT this episode. Frist strike into ninjutsu breaks the brain.
Ordering blockers happens in the declare blockers step
509.2. Second, for each attacking creature that’s become blocked, the active player announces that creature’s damage assignment order...
I just want to make sure I've got this strait because I think I've been doing it wrong for years; in rule 509.2, it provides the Example:
"Vastwood Gorger (5/6) is blocked by Llanowar Elves(1/1), Runeclaw Bear(2/2), and Serra Angel(4/4). Vastwood Gorger’s controller announces the Vastwood Gorger’s damage assignment order as Serra Angel, then Llanowar Elves, then Runeclaw Bear."
So in this example, say the defending player casts Giant Growth (+3/+3) on the Serra Angel in the Declare Blockers step before damage. Then in the Damage Step the defender's whole board survives? i.e., the Attacking player cannot choose to deal damage to the Llanowar Elves and/or the Runeclaw Bear instead because the order has already been set?
Huh, honestly, I've only recently that there even was an "order" to blockers or the requirement to assign lethal damage; I always thought the attacker could assign it's combat damage however it wanted on the damage step. I guess that was a blind spot in my formative years that no one knew, or was never relevant.
@@AxillaryPower2that is correct. It's a bit unintuitive, but bit it's also important to make combat tricks function well defensively while double blocking.
I’d love to see an extra turns focused on combat shenanigan decks. This is a fantastic episode of the podcast! Thanks Rachel and Murph!
I also had a recent "beginning of combat" issue recently.
I said, "Move to combat?" With a "at the beginning of combat" trigger on board.
My opponent says "before that trigger goes on the stack I want to kill it."
I reply, "so still in my main phase?"
He says, "yeah before you get the trigger."
To which I reply, "okay well then I get priority back after and can do sorcery speed things like cast this reanimate spell that gives it haste."
He then got mad because he didn't think I could cast a sorcery even though the judge confirmed. I even told him, "either I get to still cast sorceries or I get the trigger." And then let him choose.
I alway read Propaganda as “If a creature attacks you , then it’s controller pays 2 for each creature declared as an attacker.” This way it happens as the creature is declared as an attacker. As a logic nerd, the rule of replacement say ‘If p, then q’ is equivalent to ‘not-p or q;’ and ‘unless’ is treated as ‘or.’ Propaganda is basically, ‘not-attack unless pay’ which is equivalent to ‘if attack, then pay.’
"How did you bring Emrakul down?", Jace asked the orc.
"Well....actually we all blocked in a band.", the orc replied, picking his nose.
"You...did what? How high are the losses?", Jace wanted to know.
"Well...actually only this little pony.", the orc said, scratching his head.
I play several "Banding Decks". The benefit of attacking and/or blocking in a band is that I can decide how the damage is dealt. My creatures are (mostly all/the important ones) still alive. They did not mention the benefit of blocking in a band against a creature with deathtouch. Or trample. Or First/Double Strike and so on. Love banding and the possibility to build decks around.
I've been attempting to build a banding deck around Agrus Kos Eternal Soldier. Since you've got multiple decks I'd love to see how you've decided to build them and the choices you've made if you wouldn't mind sharing decklists!
Banding would easily be the best combat keyword if it was reprinted on cards that are better than a 5 mana 2/4
The banding lands, fortified area, helm of chatzuk, and baton of morale are all edh playable
Kids these days have no idea!
If you have an Arcades, the Strategist deck, forgotten card *Fortified Area* gives all wall creatures +1/+0 and BANDING.
My uncle gave me all his old cards I never knew how to use banding because no one I've ever played has it
Thank you so much for differentiating 'steps' and 'phases'!
510.4 is the reason for the double strike rule when talking about Blade Historian. IF you somehow put a creature onto to the battlefield tapped and attacking during first strike damage step and that creature has first strike, it will do its damage during the regular strike step. There is only one rule for how this works so it affects losing double strike in a negative way but having a first strike creature enter after the first damage step in a positive way. I think of it as the first strike damage step asking “which creature hasn’t dealt combat damage this turn and first strike or double strike? You deal your damage now” then for the regular strike damage step, the question is “which creature has dealt combat damage this turn and doesn’t have double strike? You will not deal damage right now. Everyone else will.”
This is a good way to explain it that I will use in the future.
It’s also so you can’t give a creature first strike before the regular damage step (if you’re already in a first strike step) to prevent that damage. With this outcome in mind it has to cut both ways with losing double strike. I love this stuff
@@caseyfurey1348that's a great point.
Your mental shortcut is actually how the rule is defined! If there is a creature with first strike or double strike in combat at the beginning of the (first) damage step, then only those creatures deal damage, and a second damage step is created. In the second damage step, the creatures that deal damage are creatures with double strike and creatures that haven't dealt combat damage this combat yet. That's the actual definition in the rules for this combat step: it's not a mental shortcut; it's how it actually works.
I started screaming(quietly) at my screen for this question, with a different answer, but for the same reasoning.
Sparring Collar from Fifth Dawn. An Equipment that gives First strike and has a built-in instant-speed Equip cost. So you can deal First Strike with one creature, then swap it to another to allow the first creature to then deal it's "Double Strike" damage, also preventing the new equipped creature from dealing damage at all because it missed it's chance during First Strike step. Early Me thought I could trick this for a little advantage, but after looking it up nearly 20 years ago, I found out this cheeky little ruling and proved myself wrong.
I often like to approach decks almost like studies on game aspects I feel I could improve at. For example, I specifically built an Isshin deck to get better at combat, and it made a massive difference. Both in my ability to do combat math as well as in how effectively I keep track of various triggers and how they can be most optimally stacked.
Agree. Did that with Slicer and learned a TON.
Great idea! I am trying to make one type of each deck. I don't have a combat focused one yet. Isshin has been on the radar.
Did something very similar with Nymris to help teach me to better time my spells and when the best time is to use my removal
Yesss! That's how I got better with combo/stack interaction with Urza and K'rrik. Currently I've added helm of chatzuk to my slime against humanity deck so I can start to get a bearing on banding. Haven't been able to cast the helm yet tho
Combat is tricky! What’s the most complicated combat that you’ve ever had to resolve in a commander game? How did you solve it?
As a Banding fan, great episode! But I heard at least one significant error at 23:20. The blockers are ordered during during the *Declare blockers step*. Very significant to determine how you want to use combat tricks and other effects before damage.
Everytime I play Yasova Dragonclaw. If I try to take a creature, but you do something to stop it, like change the power of that creature or blink it, then I no longer pay. Thats just the first complication I have with players and this deck. The next issue is some of the cards I run in it are like "enters tapped and attacking" that I can repeat. So it goes around most pillowfort cards. I just have to bring up the small details rules online lol Oh and I run Cowardice in it, so if I use my cmdr to target something of yours, it gets bounced and I don't pay 3 mana. Free bounce on combat each of my turns.
ANYTHING to do with (Zada Hedron Grinder). Because Zada can make tokens in the middle of pumping it's creatures, it always creates tokens with varying power, especially if your opponent plays (fist of flame).
I have nothing against Zada players, he's a really fun commander and very easy to build, It's important to have commanders like him and (Feather the redeemed) for both new and older players, but damn is Zada hard to keep track of
This story isn't from a commander game because it was around the time of original Zendikar block before EHD was huge, but I and a friend were playing some kitchen table 60 card magic. I had a white weenie equipment deck and he had blue wizards built around Patron Wizard, and the board state was such that each of us had a half dozen and change different creatures each, and I had a variety of equipment cards (Fireshrieker, Basilisk Collar, Sword of Vengeance, a Bonesplitter or two, etc.). Now, things got complicated when I played Leonin Shikari who says, "You may activate equip abilities any time you could cast an instant," which in conjunction with cards like Auriok Steelshaper, Kor Duelist, and a few other creatures of varying power, I had a board that mentally fried my opponent. He had a handful of wizards, a creature that get's bigger per wizard, etc. Well, math is for blockers as they say, so I full swing, fully able to dance around almost every key word in the game and pump effects, and then change it all again after first strike damage. My opponent spent a literal half hour trying to optimize his blocks. Eventually, after a hydration break, he had finally declared his blocks, which were swiftly dismantled after a quick equipment shuffle, followed by a concession. Moral of the story: don't bring wands to a sword fight.
@@AxillaryPower2 Ah I think I see. Basically if he couldn't tap down enough creatures or he didn't have enough blockers for every attacking creature,
Then you could just swing the equipment to any unblocked creature, or to a creature that didn't have enough stack blocks
Love these more theory/gameplay focused episodes!
Defensive Formation is an enchantment that essentially gives you the defensive benefit of banding
O boy, 15 minutes left in video: let’s talk about banding! Strap in! Very informative video. There’s definitely some weird interactions that can happen in some of the “hidden” steps of combat. It’s great that there’s an explanation of all this from someone with as much pull and notoriety as the command zone, so I can point people to it. It always feels kind of cheater-y when I pull some shenanigans in beginning or end of combat, and people don’t quite believe me. Glad reconnaissance got some love. I would’ve liked a tidbit about regenerate (specifically the fact that it taps it and removes it from combat. It’s in the reminder text, but that’s not on everything, and it gets missed a lot ) even tho it’s an older mechanic, cause it does still see some play. I did not know that goad has to go at a player, cause there have definitely been times a planeswalker was attacked in lieu
Brilliant video concept. A lot of the lessons to be learned here I think are harder to visualize. Years of playing on MTGO really helped me learn to see how the phases of a turn break down and what takes place during each step/phase.
I am currently building a Brimaz King of Oreskos banding deck, so this video is perfectly timed!
looking forward to some high quality banding content
Haha, was recently just hoping there was a video like this and boom immediately after this pops up! Thanks CZ - real psychics
11:05 So we actually have tournament shortcut set up here to protect the nonactive player. From the Magic Tournament Rules, section 4.2 on Tournament Shortcuts:
> If the active player passes priority with an empty stack during their first main phase, the non-active player is assumed to be acting in beginning of combat unless they are affecting whether a beginning of combat ability triggers. Then, after those actions resolve or no actions took place, the active player receives priority at the beginning of combat.
We don't want players to have to figure out the difference between "move to combat" or "move to attackers" or any other variation (especially when other languages are involved), so we default to the nonactive player responding during the latest point possible. So unless you are trying to affect a beginning of combat trigger (or are using some resource you only have available during the main phase, like floating mana), we assume that you're interacting during the beginning of combat step, not the main phase.
23:10 The phrase we use is "combat damage assignment order". Also, this order is not decided during the combat damage step - if multiple blockers block the same attacking creature, before players get priority during the declare blockers step, the attacking player puts them in a combat damage assignment order so players know the order they're assigned damage in (so if I block your 4/4 menace with two 2/2s, I know which one I have to Giant Growth so they both survive).
'We don't want players to have to figure out the difference between "move to combat" or "move to attackers" or any other variation (especially when other languages are involved), so we default to the nonactive player responding during the latest point possible. So unless you are trying to affect a beginning of combat trigger (or are using some resource you only have available during the main phase, like floating mana), we assume that you're interacting during the beginning of combat step, not the main phase.'
Does this even matter? If the AP passes priority with an empty stack, they are attempting to move to the next phase. NAP gets a chance to receive priority and they cast a spell. AP can respond to that spell with instant speed stuff, but they can NOT let it resolve and turn around and continue their precombat main phase by casting a creature with haste as they described. If the removal spell resolves, then don’t we move onto the next phase?
**I'm wrong I guess but it still feels wrong to let the AP rewind.
@@Setzerthat is incorrect. As they mention in this video and in the previous episode on priority and the stack, if the AP attempts to leave their main phase and it gets interrupted by someone responding with speed or ability, after that resolves it is still the main phase and the AP gets priority and can continue making main phase actions at sorcery speed. If they have no more actions to take then once again the AP will try to leave the main phase and another round of priority happens. Then if all players pass priority, the main phase is done and it becomes the next phase.
@@Setzer If NAP is interacting during the main phase, then the AP would get priority again during that main phase once the stack is empty, even if they had passed priority previously - it's irrelevant that AP has previously wanted to move on to the next phase, if NAP interacted during AP's main phase, then AP would always get priority again during the main phase when the stack is empty. That's why we default to the NAP interacting at the latest point possible - the beginning of combat step.
Natedogg here used to be able to give WoTC [O]fficial rulings. Short of current WoTC staff making a comment you can’t get a more reliable authority. I honestly think this comment should be pinned.
Definitely thinking back about the times I get to attack with Snapdax, Apex of the Hunt mutated over some infect creature and have sword of truth and justice equiped and trample by some other effect.
Infect, doublestrike, trample, and proliferate at combat damage makes the combat math almost exciting! :)
28.00 So glad I looked up that Kwende/ Sidar interaction. CR 510.4. It works, just a lot of explaining.
Also this answers your 50:11, Murph and Rachel.
55.20: The 3/3 doesn't die to the first strike- infect 2/2. It has 2 -1/-1 counters, but stays alive.
When are we getting How to Play Blue with JLK of Game Knights fame? 👀👀
A wizard doesn't reveal his secrets unfortunately
Glad to see people still referencing Posty’s joke.
@@TeaGarrison recently watched it twice in the same day cause it’s just such a good episode
Its crazy. After watching this the day it dropped, a few of the situations arose the very next day during some games. This episode was pure gold!
This video was so relevant to my last game. Kardur was cloned by different people, The Second Doctor says you can’t attack if you drew a card. Then Take the Bait was cast goading all the attacking creatures and so the entire table had goaded 1 player effectively ungoading them in the process. It was great fun and played according to the rules
Just here to say this is a coincidental episode. Less than a month ago I had used Reins of Power to yank all the creatures from player A to kill Player B and then used Aetherise to bounce their creatures before end of combat. I felt so big brained.
For all of us old timers. In Legends, wizards printed 5 lands that give band with other legends to legendary creatures you control of a certain color. For those who really like banding and are using a legend heavy deck + you may have more legends than you think.
They need to bring back banding it's not confusing at all its simple I love it
Find me on the TCC server rolling around with a Soraya the Falconer bird/banding meme deck
When covering Ghostly Prison I wish they had mentioned how certain things like Deathrite Shaman cannot be used to pay for that cost. I've seen that happen in a bunch of games.
I didn't realize how much I could still learn about combat. Thanks again guys!
About two years ago, I once had a rather specific question I wanted to look up in the comprehensive rules and couldn't find it, so I went to the judges chat. It was late at night and there was nobody active, so it took them a few hours to see my question (and point me to the relevant rule).
In the meantime, I answered about 20 questions myself. (I'm not a judge, but the rules there allow it if you're sure of your footing.) Almost all of them were about combat interactions and interactions of keywords: mostly the ones mentioned here. I didn't realise combat was so confusing for many people until then.
I am very new to MTG…this video is very very helpful.
Wait, brain fart: how does Deathtouch + Trample work? do you only assign 1 damage to the blocker because that's considered lethal and the rest goes through? or do you still assign damage as normal, and it's just considered lethal no matter what?
With trample, you need to assign what would be lethal damage to all creatures blocking it before you can start assigning damage to the defending player.
With deathtouch, one damage is considered to be lethal.
So if an attacking creature has deathtouch and trample, it can assign 1 damage to each creature blocking it, and the remaining damage to the defending player/planeswalker/battle.
1 damage is sufficient for the kill. Rest goes tru
What a great episode. I'm ready to declare blockers now! Thanks folks!
That ninjitsu end of combat trick blew my mind. Those are the rules interactions I love to hear about.
One thing you can think of with protection is that it prevents damage being dealt, not assigned. When you look at it this way, it makes sense.
The Blade Historian scenario you discussed, and more specifically rule 510.4 that governs first/double strikers not doing regular damage if they don’t currently have double strike, is more relevant when you consider how it would work with Archetype of Courage. Without this rule, you could have your whole team do first strike damage, then return Archetype to your hand and have your now-not-first-strikers do damage during regular combat damage as well, giving them virtual double strike. This rule ensures that only creatures that actually have double strike get to do combat damage twice.
Ninjutsu shenanigans are the best and are what helped me to understand all the combat steps. Satoru the infiltrator giving everything ninjutsu lets you ninjutsu and get an etb and/or combat damage from a massive demon, and then you can ninjutsu exchange it for a tiny unblockable body during the end of combat step. Saves them from a lot of interaction.
This is a great episode. So many shenanigans can be had with the intricacies of the combat phase. I've gotten so many people with Misleading Signpost - absolutely hilarious and noone ever expects it
One of the best episodes in a long time! I am learning so much about a phase I think I might have neglected despite playing for almost 7 years
The assigning damage with Trample, or if there’s multiple blockers, is also relevant when there’s damage reducing effects like Valkmira, Protectors Shield (the back face of Reidane). Back when it was in standard (on Arena) my opponent had one in play and double blocked my creature. I had to make sure to assign 1 more damage to the first blocker to ensure that it was destroyed during combat.
As someone with a Kathril, Aspect Warper deck, those keyword synergies were super helpful!
Holy crap, Banding sounds perfect for my Wolf Token deck. Being able to manipulate incoming damage gives a ton of resilience that I need
Banding was one of the easiest abilities I learned as a child. The only thing that made it complicated was its interaction with trample. Banding=you assign your opponents combat damage to the band. Simple af.
Far and away my favorite creature that funks with how combat feels actually is my first ever commander, and is more social than mechanic-driven: Tahngarth, First Mate.
Beyond just having the obvious rule hiccup (you give him to other people mid-combat and he arrives tapped and attacking), I love how much he shapes the social dynamics of combat.
Some people become more aggressive, assuming that being given an extra 5/5 will distract from the blockers that come at their stuff, which becomes a trap if I withhold him.
Others become less aggressive, fearing that if they just swing in for a chill, friendly 1 damage, that I may force them to hit for 7 or 8 damage instead.
He's a funky, honestly not terribly powerful commander but man oh man, the gears start turning in everyone's heads once they know a giant cow man could be knocking on their doorstep at a moment's notice.
On the prison and goad thing, if you are goading things, prisons are for when other people have prisons so they don't hit you
Banding is nice with protection from creatures (Ex Beloved Chaplain, Holy Mantle or Unquestioned authority). Now no attack NEVER does any damages to you. I have a mono-white Ludric deck with banding old stuff! Great memories from when I started playing during Unlimited/Revised - Ice Age etc .. Fun to play those cards it makes fun reaction at the table and its nice to see old stuff being played nowadays! :)
Re attacking with banding. I out protection on one of my banding creatures and can then use banding to pump up an attack enough to do something - compell a block and have enough power to kill the blocker ...
Worked good when i was playing mono white vs mono green yesterday.
Banding deserves more love. You can attack in a band with trample and deathtouch which will make most people let the whole thing through. You can have an indestructible creature in the band to put all damage on it. You can combine those horrible keywords with forced blocking to destroy their board.
Best keyword ever.
Great episode! I think a couple other combat aspects that could have been touched on are how Regeneration works, and some tricky things that happen with blockers coming and going. Like how the token made by Flash Foliage can block creatures it normally wouldn't be able to.
Man. I’m just so happy that we’re getting such long videos that aren’t just set reviews!
I've been enjoying the recent gameplay videos a lot, keep them comming :)
29:22 my version of the “there’s something that literally breaks every single one of these rules” is “unless otherwise stated.”
I am SO GRATEFUL you used Sidar Jabari in an example. Its obvious, and I feel stupid, but I've been misusing his first strike/resurrection mechanic allllll the time. Being able to resurrect a combat effect BEFORE the rest of my creatures deal damage is INSANE. Always wondered why i never felt moonshaker was impactful in my games.
55:04 no the 3/3 doesn’t die, it remains a 1/1.
Great episode. i think it would be even better having a visual demonstration of how all these interactions happen and in what order from simpliest to the most complicated.
The video is already long enough.
the double strike ruling seems to be trying to preserve the idea that double strike mainly exists to double damage moreso than to change the timing of damage, so it would make sense that a creature which is normal and doesn't have first or double strike has an implicit "deals normal damage / not double damage" property which is preserved by not letting it deal damage in the normal damage step after losing double strike.
Thank you so much for stating what I’ve been for ages about the Goad/Ghostly situation. I have a Jeskai Aragorn deck that uses goad to damage opponents and prison effects to hold onto monarchy. I ended up taking most Ghost effects out because people kept claiming it worked this way despite my proving otherwise 😂 I’d end up leaning more into goad anyway because it gets the game closer to a close but it’s nice to be vindicated lol
I had to learn this quickly with my most recent playgroup. When you're doing some big. Ask everyone if it resolves before you do your next thing. This will remove the opportunity the other players can do something when you enter steps and phases.
Great episode! Only addition i would make is No Quarter. Such a great card for combat shenaigans
Ninjutsu + First Strike: Cheap creatures in UB that have First Strike and evasion (Flying)
Gurmag Swiftwing
Drana, Liberator of Malakir
end of list
50:23 The reason creatures which have already dealt damage during the ‘first strike damage’ step don’t do damage during the normal strike after loosing double strike is due to rule 510.4 - One of the abuse you could do without that rule is: you could effectively give double strike to any creature by removing their first strike ability. A example for this would be: if you attack with a bunch of red creatures and have “Bloodmark Mentor” on the battlefield then before first strike damage and normal damage you kill your own Bloodmak Mentor; this would essentially have all your creatures dealing damage twice for a very cheap cost and that would forever shape the competitive world. Rule 510.4 solve this.
54:43 In the first strike infect example, why would the 3/3 die? I understand first strike damage makes the 3/3 a 1/1 so it doesnt kill the 2/2, but wouldnt the infect creature need double strike to then kill it off? Someone help please.
Had no idea that you are required to assign lethal damage if able.
Also - I've always felt like banding was probably good, but never took the time to figure it out. My inclination was that it was better for attacking, since you can already double-block, so this was really eye-opening.
Re: losing double strike - my read is that it's treated as though the creature had first strike, so it doesn't deal regular damage. I'd need to look at the rules text for first strike to be sure, but I wonder if that rule wasn't in place - creatures without double strike can't deal regular damage if first strike damage was already dealt - if first strike creatures would also deal regular damage after dealing first strike damage? Dunno, but it makes sense in my head
Remember that you don't have to assign excess damage to a 2nd blocker. You can choose to assign all your damage to the 1st if you wish. I was gaslighted when someone double blocked with a phyrexian obliterator and told me I had to assign damage to it after assigning lethal to the 1st blocker.
The Blade Historian is the creature that gives attacking creatures double strike during the combat steps, during the first strike
phase of double strike the creatures will deal combat damage then state-based actions are checked to see if creatures died or
not or if triggers occur. If Blade Historian is removed during this phase of the combat step state-based check will see that the
creatures are no longer receiving double-strike and that creatures have already dealt damage. that will remove the second part
of the double-strike phase !! Easy Peasy,
51:00
Idea as to why it works like that. Let's say you block with Solemn Simulacrum, it dies on first strike and you draw a card which is an instant removal spell. You can then respond to the second strike and prevent it.
Super niche but it's reasonable to happen with card draw on death.
thinking about how my pod used to say that a creature with protection would block none of a trampler's damage... 😅
I had an interesting combat last might in arena, I had a trapjaw tyrant out and my opponent had a 4 flying dragons one which did x2 damage to target creature for x attacking creatures, they decided to assign all of it to my trapjaw which when it takes damage exiles creature until it leaves, so as it took each damage I was able to exile most of their attacking creatures but when it died it brought them all back effectively just removing them from combat
Anim Pakal doesn’t work the way you want with Sarah Lyons. You can stack it so the tokens are created first, but they didn’t attack. They’re attacking, yes, but didn’t go through the action of being declared as an attack. You won’t have to pay more for Ghostly Prison on the gnomes, but you also won’t fulfill Sarah Lyons’ attack quota.
Worse, Lyons’ ability is a conditional trigger. If you didn’t fulfill the condition on attack, it doesn’t even trigger - you can’t burn a Stifle on it, because it doesn’t see the condition met and doesn’t go on the stack at all.
@commandcast: Rachel, Murph, I believe I have an answer to your Blade Historian question.
Setup: Your opponent has 5 creatures: Blade Historian, two vanilla 4/4s, two vanilla 5/5s. You control four creatures that all say, "Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a creature, destroy that creature at end of combat."
This was colloquially known as the "Basilisk Effect," as it made having a bigger Power/Toughness board not mean as much in Old-School Magic. An example of this effect is Ohran Viper from Coldsnap.
That said, the way the scenario above works is, your opponent attacks with the vanilla creatures, opting to not attack with Blade Historian.
You declare blockers, using all four of your creatures.
After Declare Blockers, in response to First Strike damage, you cast Wrap in Vigor to regenerate each creature you control. Your opponent passes. After First Strike damage, in response to normal damage, you cast Lightning Bolt, killing Blade Historian. Meanwhile, your board is tapped and removed from combat, instead of the First Strike damage killing your creatures.
What this means is, you lose none of your creatures, and your opponent at end of combat loses their whole board, since your creatures did not die or get destroyed, while their creatures took damage in combat, despite the damage being less than lethal -- which means your creatures' Basilisk Effects all go on the stack, and each creature dealt less than lethal damage is destroyed.
Addutionally, removing the Blade Historian is essentially turning a removal spell into a Fog, since you're essentially halving the combat damage you would otherwise take.
I built an attack based banding deck around Goldbug. Since many banding cards were errataed to be a human type, it gets really silly when I put all damage on the human who prevents all combat damage when attacking. I use equipment that generates creature tokens to go wide and buffs for my band. It makes blocking a band or the creature tokens a difficult decision.
I play the lands that give my legendary creatures banding with other legendary creatures of the same color. It makes for some great combat shenanigans.
I have a blue white banding deck. Another interesting thing you can do with it is creatures with whenever this creature is blocked do X... Tolarian entrancer is a good one. Also some some folks who I play with skip their combats if I give one of their creatures banding with Helm of chatzuk or Baton of moral, because they don't want to think about banding! XD
Banding is also really easy to understand. I'm the attacking player, I attack with a band of creatures, a 5/5 and a 1/1. The opponent decides to block my creatures that are in a band, they have a 4/4 and a 1/1. Normally when combat damage happens the defending player assigns their combat damage, so in a normal combat they could decide to have their 4/4 and 1/1 double block my 5/5 and kill it. However, with banding I as the attacking player with the band am allowed to assign their combat damage, and so I can have their 4/4 block my 5/5 and their 1/1 block my 1/1, or have both of their creatures block my 1/1. Now, because my creatures are blocked as a band in either situation my 5/5 would deal no combat damage to the player, even if my 5/5 was not blocked and I stacked both the enemy's 4/4 and 1/1 to block my 1/1. It may look like my 5/5 is unblocked but a band is blocked and blocks as a band, essentially as a single creature.
If this is still confusing all it really means is that if a player's creatures are in a band they get to break the rules of assigning combat damage when blocking or being blocked, by taking the other player's choices away from them and choosing how damage is assigned.
Wish you would have talked about Regenerate
Dear lord...seeing Mesa Pegasus and the phrase "Banding" in the thumbnail took me back to the mid 90's in school trying to do sort all that stuff out.
As a seasoned player I knew some of this, but was surprised to learn about the ninjutsu trick. I'll have to use it for my Goro-Goro and Satoru ninja/attack this turn deck! I knew they were still considered still attacking but didn't put it together to bounce in End of Combat Step. Neato.
Also, when someone starts talking about banding I'm like "Would you look at the time?!?"
Essence Sliver and Syphon Sliver stack because Essence Sliver has not been errata to Lifelink but Syphon Sliver has Lifelink
Yes in a general sense but No in a technical one. Essence Sliver has a static ability granting all Slivers a Triggered ability. Syphon Sliver has a static ability granting all Slivers Lifelink (also a static ability).
Lifelink can save you against what would have been lethal damage, Essence Sliver's ability will not.
So as long as no one takes game actions and the attack isn't lethal, then yeah they "stack."
But if the attack is lethal only the Lifelink will be relevant and if it isn't enough to get you above 0 then the Essence Sliver triggers won't save you.
You could do an entire podcast episode on goad. As for banding, it would be way too broken if cards were still being printed like they used to. But I remember it back when I first played, it definitely had some popularity.
First Strike and Double strike attack phase is its own STEP in the attack phase, so you should have included that from the beginning. Would have been smoother and more clear.
I was hoping to hear the discussion of the interaction between lifelink and rain of gore.
Anyone else feel like Rachael is glowing up?
Rachel Weeks is my number one Mtg crush. She is super smart, funny, beautiful & creative.
This may not be a helpful comment, but I just gotta say Murph and Rachel both look fine as hell today for some reason. 😂 Not sure what’s going on with Rachel but I think it’s Murph’s beard looking lustrous and shapely. Couldn’t unsee it, had to say it, great vid.
Hey! I also run Loyal Pegasus in my all-fliers deck, since he's a low cost flier and has pretty decent stats.
Edit: Might also put a Mesa Pegasus in that same deck now! Sounds like it'll be a good defence card.
Love you guys ❤
I was about to win a commander game in which I'd stolen most of the creatures on the board and was swinging out at everyone for near lethal. I saw I could kill one of my friends with her own commander damage and wanted to do it because I thought that was funny. ...I forgot her commander had first strike. So it hits her, kills her on the first strike step, then all of her permanents get exiled, including a good amount of the things I'd stolen and was attacking with, which means all my opponents survived and I died the following turn.
Oh noooooo. Hahaha. Combat is SO complicated in multiplayer. At least you got a good story out of it.
11:00 would you say "before you declare attackers" and "at the beginning of combat" in this one case to be pretty much the same thing?
Yep! Those mean essentially the same thing.
@@jamesmiranda4239 Aren't they literally the same thing? The only part of the combat phase "before you declare attackers" is "beginning of combat"
Yes they are exactly the same thing
@@TempestTenor like legit no difference or is there priority being passed between these moments? Like does triggers resolve, but then priority goes around one last time before moving to attacks? what happens if there are no triggers? Can I still stop a creature from getting the attack trigger it has inside the declare attacking step?
@@jameseddleman6944 literally the same thing. The first step in combat is "beginning of combat". Beginning of combat triggers go on the stack then players get priority. Afterwards, we move to the "declare attackers" step where the very first thing that happens is the declaration of attackers. Then there is another round of priority after attack declarations.
Assuming "before you declare attackers" means "during combat, but before attacks are declared", then the only thing it can possibly refer to is the "beginning of combat" step.
The phrase "before you declare attackers" is slightly ambiguous though as it can maybe also mean "during main phase 1 before we move to combat". So if your intention is to do something during combat, but before attackers, it's best to say "at the beginning of combat."
Yo so just to make sure im understanding this right, if someone double blocks my 100/100 trampling creature, i can assign all damage to one creature to avoid the seconds death trigger?
You could. But that also means you're not able to assign or deal any damage to the defending player (you need to assign what would be lethal damage to all creatures blocking it before you can start assigning damage to the defending player). It's also not exclusive to trample - if it didn't have trample, you could still assign all of the damage to one creature and no damage to the other creature.
So what happens if the 2/2 has protection and indestructible when facing the attacking 6/6 with double strike, trample, and / or deathtouch?
Assuming the protection is of the relevant type, indestructible won't really matter here, since the damage is going to end up prevented. Assuming it has double strike and trample, during first strike damage, their attacking creature assigns 2 damage (if it doesn't have deathtouch) or 1 damage (if it has deathtouch) to the blocker, and the remaining 4 or 5 damage to the defending player. During the normal combat damage step, they do the same thing. The defending player will take 8 total damage if it doesn't have deathtouch and 10 damage if it has deathtouch.
I was recently killed in Arena by double strike damage from combat where blade historian was put into play as a triggered ability of creature after regular damage
Is it normal for Card Kingdom to take a week or longer to ship an order?
When is the last chance to cast instant speed interaction that grants evasion, in order to make a creature unblockable or to make a creature able to block an evasive creature? Is it at the end of declare attackers, or is it at the beginning of declare blockers?
Your last chance is during the declare attackers step, since the first thing that happens during the declare blockers step is that the defending player declares their blockers.