Is the Reserve Pension Worth It (or Even Fair)?
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2025
- Members of the Reserve Components can earn a "non-Regular" Pension for their military service. But the size of the monthly payment is scaled down based on their Retirement Points and payment is delayed until age 60. Effectively shrinking the Reserve Pension twice. Is that fair? And does it encourage the volunteerism that the Military depends on?
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Note: The views expressed in this video are the presenter's and do not represent the policy or guidance of the Department of Defense or its subordinate elements.
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One weekend a month 2 weeks a year is a thing of the past. I haven't seen that tempo since prior to 9/11.
Ain't that the truth.
As a National Guard soldier that started in the Navy back in 78, and retired in 2008, the OPTEMPO for the Guard, especially DOMOPS/DSCA, responses, has been over the top. I was a JO when the Rodney King trial blew up an entire coast. Since then, Guard and Reserve forces have never seen one weekend a month and two weeks during the summer.
Never has been past PFC
Many Reservists don't just do "one weekend a month, two weeks a year." Depending on your unit and MOS the longer you are in and the higher your rank, the more time you will spend on active duty attending schools, additional training and deployments. Also, many Reservist and National Guard have at least one active duty enlistment before the joining the Reserves. I receive an Army Reserve pension and it allowed me to retire early from my civilian and care for my parents. I do disagree with the age 60 retirement age. If the military wanted to they could do it on a sliding scale similar to what is done with Social Security.
Right...and I think it is step in the right direction that there is now a system of early retirement for Reservists who were called to active duty. In essence, you only have the Age 60 retirement if you never service on AD as a reservist. It is an interesting insight into what Congress really values.
@@the_bureaucrat If you look more closely at the early retirement options, they are so restricted, little or no service members can use it
I had three years active duty before I entered the reserve and guard system. I've been deployed three times and I've had a few periods of extended orders. In total I have about 13 years of active duty time. For several years now I've done multiples more than the one weekend a month and two weeks annual training. I've done storm relief for weeks at a time after hurricanes and during the rioting in 2019 and 2020 I spent weeks training almost every soldier in the state on civil disturbance operations. For the last several years ive been involved in training most of our states deploying assets. Some years as a guard soldier I've spent 8 months out of 12 on orders. This has also hampered my civilian career and in fact twice now my employer, a national defense critical infrastructure site, has violated USERRA laws.
One weekend a month my ass.
I almost forgot. Several times now I've done things on no pay orders when things needed to be done but there was no money in the budget to pay me.
I completely understand the frustration but, as a Soldier of The Guard myself ,being called up on State Orders versus being Federal used are two (2) extremely different things. Federal used service adds and counts to retirement pay but under State Orders will not add nor aid to final pay at retirement. As a Soldier/Airmen of the Guard, we are the Governor's muscle and we have two (2) missions/ bosses.....State duty (Emergencies, Distasters,riots..etc) and then Federal duty.Hate them or not but that is why all Guard Officers receive two (2) Commissions, one State and one Federal .
I did 17 years on active duty. When I separated from active duty, I immediately entered military reserves with no break in service. Additionally, when I separated from active duty, I immediately started a federal civilian career (Fed LEO). Later retired from military reserves with a total of 23 years of service. Points were maxed out. As far as my federal civilian pension(Fed LEO), I bought back all of my active duty time. Retired from federal civilian service with 20 years plus active duty time bought back with a net of 50% of my civilian high 3. Turn 60 soon and I will get my full military pension. Not all reservists are created equal. Have to know how to work the system….
Work the system...yes.
I'm just a bit worried about the fact that you "bought back" military service that is supposed to be used for military pension calculation.
Worried, or perhaps you really are built different. You might be the most brilliant person alive.
Would you mind emailing me at chuck.weko@gmail.com to walk thru the details of this?
I mean...this might be absolutely amazing.
@@the_bureaucrat I will send you the details. I apply for my reserve retired pension in July 2025. When it’s all wrapped up, I’ll send you the details.
This is just double dipping for reservist who are civil servants…collecting 2 pensions
@@barkermjb reservist are the only ones who can do this it’s written in the laws a 420A once told me you better love to read cause that’s what’s it’s all about that and researching the material officers are the biggest secret holders when it comes to retirement word of advice read those regulations and subordinate articles that govern at the division levels and so forth
This is exactly what I want to do would love to learn more about this if you don’t mind . Or have a way we could talk back and forth thank you
One weekend a month was during the Cold War era. For those that are doing ‘stuff’ throughout the month…at least submit non paid drill requests. You can submit up to 130 per year and this goes to your retirement pension calculation.
Remember to get your pension early thanks to those deployments: ruclips.net/video/t6y7t_yTfDE/видео.html
And don't get pinched by the 6 year rule: ruclips.net/video/MGD5KwuV2Yw/видео.html
I retired an O-4 from the Air Force Reserve after 21 years all reserve time with a 1 year mobilization for Iraqi Freedom. To me, the pension is just a bonus; it's the military health care (TriCare) that's the real benefit in retirement. That will enable me to retire at 60 instead of 65 like my civilian-job counterparts.
Lots of folks have pointed out that I might have taken a "too-narrow" view of the benefits an RC Soldier gets, but this one is telling. You are 100% right about the TRICARE being valuable to RC folks. And in many ways it might be valued significantly more than the pension itself.
I agree 100% sir. I tell my non-Vet colleagues at the VA that my Army pension is totally secondary, it's the TriCare that's the real prize. Especially after I retired and saw how much civilians are paying for insurance.
When I started working civil service they were talking about different health insurance options and when she told me how much it cost all I could say was, "per month, are $#itting me?"
@@johnh2410 sir, that’s true and I agree about the tricare benefit. I’m still trying to figure out as a grey area retiree if our pension having done 20 years is still being adjusting for COLA and if so the amount shown on the retirement statement isn’t exactly true for what our real retirement will be this has been my question and continues to be
plenty of those reserve guys had a 4 or 6 year enlistment to start their career and then at the end of the enlistment transferred to the reserves so they could go on to one day retire from the reserves. In doing so they aren't totally throwing away those points from that first active duty enlistment.
True, and the nation has benefited from lots of those folks.
I came off an AD tour and went in the Reserves. Was called up as a DS to support GWOT and retired as a MSG with 25 years and almost 3700 points, The Reserve and the GI Bill paid for 2 master degrees for me and I am now in IT management in a large global company. I used the system as i knew it was using me. I knew the deal going into the reserves and made it work for me. Knowing i have Tricare and my retirement at 60 will allow me to retire at that age or maybe 59. I am not complaining.
You are the ideal example of someone who makes a great deal out of the Reserves...I assume you are tracking the way early retirement works (ruclips.net/video/t6y7t_yTfDE/видео.html).
@@the_bureaucrat I didnt do any time to get an earlier retirement than 60, so I think I am tracking. My last MOB/AD time was in 05-06.
@maxmuller1585 If you had joined AD at 18yo, you could have been retired at 38 with all the great benefits. Good thing I chose the AD route.
The O5 reserve pension was the best thing that ever happened to me. Had 5 years of active duty from 2008-2013 which tripled my pension then i was able to retire at 56 years early because of the active duty. So i then had Tricare, Commissary rights and flights to Hawaii out of Travis. Also, I bought back 8 years when i went back to DOJ. God Bless the United States Army Reserve!
Hey, quick question. When you retired early, did TRICARE move you from TRICARE Reserve Retired to TRICARE Prime? Or did you have to wait to age 60? I can't get a straight answer from them because they seem to conflate "age 60" with "begin recieving reserve retired pay". Hit me up at chuck.weko@gmail.com if you know the answer.
@@the_bureaucrat good question, did you ever get a straight answer on this?
The thing that drives me nuts is that they made the rule in 2008 about early retirement. Was activated 3 times right after 9/11, but since they were before 2008, they don't lower my age 60 retirement.
Same
Yeah, of all the "Post 9/11" policies, this one seems the most insensitive to the fact that Soldiers were serving before the law was passed.
Yep...got my 20 Year Letter in Jan. 2008 while I was in Ass-crackistan. Stayed in one more year, then retired. Had to wait till I was 60 to collect. Sucked.
I had never looked at grey area retiree issue this way before. Thank you for giving me a new perspective.
I hate to say it, but I think the grey area retiree pay donut hole exist because of bureaucratic inertial Basically, "that's the way it has always been done for the last 75 years). Remember, the foundation of our personnel system (pay, promotion, retirement) are all build in 1948 on experience and demographic data from 1910. Prior to 1948 reserve personnel weren't eligible for any retired pay, so in comparison paying retired pay to reservists at age 60 was a huge improvement and looked pretty fair when the projected active career was 30 years. Now, add in the perception of Congressmen who created the rules and remembered when reservists were not even paid at for non annual training periods. (IIRC the federal government only started paying National Guard members for monthly training period around 1914.)
Bingo. It seems to me that this "retirement pay donut hole" is being slowly closed but might take decades to fully close.
@@the_bureaucrat It is a 75 year hole, so closing it in 40 years might be considered fast.
Joking aside, We need to re-evaluate both the active and reserve service model. In 1948 we gave up the professional lifetime service model (40 years with slow but near guaranteed promotion, eventually) for a 30 year career model with build in high forced attrition. Professional models generate professional behaviors, career models generate careerist behaviors.
Thanks for another great and informative video sir. Speaking strictly for myself, I believe Reserve/Guard get kinda screwed on their pensions. Not really by amount so much, but by making them wait until they’re 60(ish) to get paid. I mean is a cost saving measure? Because we all know that know that “cost” + “saving” is a non sequitur when the military is involved, especially the Army.
Thanks @Moto-Foody. I think that the 60 year rule is a legacy from when the RC were never used in deployments. If you think back to the Vietnam era, the National Guard was actually a place to hide out, dodge the draft, and make it look like you were serving. (George Bush is only one example of this). But beginning with Desert Storm, the role of the RC really started to change and the early retirement system for RC that phased in around 2005 reflected that change. In light of those changes, I think we are moving in a "fairer" direction.
Excellent video - really highlights the treatment of the reserve component. I also agree that Tri-care is an important consideration but grey area retirees need to remember they won't be eligible until they are collecting retired pay at age 60.
Have you considered doing a video on the Voluntary Separation Incentive? In the post-gulf war 1990’s, the Department of Defense continued to downsize the military. Tools utilized to shape the active force included the Voluntary Separation Incentive (VSI). This financial incentive - an annual payment based on the number of years of service - encouraged service members to voluntarily resign from the regular army, accept an appointment in the reserve component and maintain that affiliation for a specified time frame (twice the number of years of service). The goal was to reduce the number of service members on the active duty rolls while maintaining an experienced reserve component workforce. The fine print, missed by many, included a provision to recoup the entire incentive amount if the service member retired.
I do not believe the VSI is payment for service previously rendered or in lieu of retirement or an early retirement program. There are no retirement benefits (Medical, Commissary/PX privileges, annual cost of living adjustments, etc.) associated at all. Title 10 USC, section 1175 states “the Secretary of Defense… may provide a financial incentive to members of the armed forces… for voluntary appointment, enlistment, or transfer to a reserve component…” It’s clear from the wording of the law that the incentive is simply provided to encourage active duty personnel to voluntarily move to the reserves.
In addition, there is a requirement for future service - members must maintain their reserve component status to receive the annual VSI payment. That incentive payment schedule can extend 20-30 years after transfer to the reserves. Many reservists have been surprised that their retirement pay is reduced by 40% to repay the Voluntary Separation Incentive.
I did this video recently looking at the process of recoupment.
ruclips.net/video/afsa1HmaWJw/видео.html
@@keith8321 excellent remark and it gets worst you attempt to become a federal employee and buy back your active duty military time it’s crazy how it would seem you get punished for excepting to voluntarily leave the service
You can end up with a more balanced retirement utilizing benefits from active duty and reserve than by having only an active duty military pension. While your reserve pension is potentially smaller, you also started your second career earlier and will likely have a 401k if you work for a company. If you drill a lot as a reservist, you can get 50% or more of your base pay. I know a couple of reservists with over 9000 drill points (because funeral honors allow you to exceed the 130 yearly drill limit). And if you decide to leave the corporate job and join federal service, reservists can buy back their active duty time (not including the annual training). Thus you can end up with FERS pension as well. By the time you turn age 60, you can have a reserve pension, corporate 401k, and FERS pension. Add TSP if you don't have a 401k. With active duty, you essentially start over at late 30 to mid 40s in a second career, whether corporate or federal while your reservist counterpart will be mid to senior in his/her corporate/federal career. Honestly, I think the reserve is the best kept secret and knowing how to navigate the reserve/corporate career can be much more rewarding than staying on active duty for a fixed pension.
Example 1: active duty O5 (military academy graduate) retires at age 42 with 20 yrs of service receive an annual pension of $66538 (50% of O5 with 20 years of service) starting at age 42. Starts second career in federal service from age 42-62. He/She can only buy back 4 years of federal service time (because academy time counts as federal service). He/She completely retires at age 62 as a GS-15 step 10 with 24 years of federal service total and receive an annual FERS pension of $42226.8. Not counting TSP, this retired active duty O5/federal servant will receive annually a military pension of $66538 + a FERS pension of $42226.8 (2024 value, not adjusted for COLA).
By age 62: collected over $1.33 million in military pension and will have an annual combined pension of $108,764.8 not including anything in TSP nor social security. This individual worked a total of 40 years and received 44 years' worth of retirement benefits (20 years from active duty military and 24 years from federal service).
Example 2: service member (military academy graduate) transition from active duty to the reserve at age 32 (10 yrs of active duty) and decide to serve until he/she has 6120 drill points (~ 17 years of active duty service). Assuming this individual only mobilize twice for 365 days each in his/her reserve career and retires as an O5 at age 50 with 28 years of total military service. He/She will receive an annual reserve (non-regular) pension of $58276.17 (42.5% of O5 with 28 years of service) starting at age 58 (reduced from age 60 due to 2 yrs of mobilization as a reservist). Concurrently, this individual also started his/her corporate career at age 32 and climbed the corporate ladder to manager/director of a company by the age of 57. He/she will have amassed a significant sum of 401k (traditional and/or Roth) for 25 years assuming max contribution and company matching. This individual decides to join federal service at age 57 and retires at age 62 as a GS-14 step 10 (due to his/her experience from the corporate life). He/She buy back 16 years of active duty service (10 yrs from active duty service, 2 yrs from mobilization, and 4 years from service academy) and serve 5 years from age 57 to 62 for a total of 21 years of federal service with an annual FERS pension of $31413 (higher if retired as a GS-15 step 10 like the active duty service member).
By age 62: collected $233k in military pension, likely have at least $3 to $4 million in 401k (invested over 25 years), and will have an annual combined pension of $89689.17 not including anything in TSP nor social security. This individual also worked a total of 40 years but received 63 years' worth of retirement benefits (28 years from active/reserve military which is equivalent to 17 years of active duty military, 25 years from corporate company, and 21 years from federal service).
Example 1 vs Example 2 comparison:
Active duty service member collected $1.1 million more in military pension by age 62 since reservist member have to collect later.
Reservist has a much bigger 401k ($3 to $4 million) which continues to grow despite the difference of $19075.63 in total annual pension compared to the active duty service member.
If a significant part of that 401k is Roth, it will benefit your surviving spouse when the service member dies because it will drastically reduce the widow's penalty when the taxes switch from married to single. Even if it is not Roth, it will still help the surviving spouse but not as great as if it were Roth due to the tax implications. In addition, SBP limits military pension to a max of 55% of your military pension for your surviving spouse. Your 401k will supplement the income lost due to SBP. (This example does not take into account if the individuals have additional retirement investments such as TSP/IRA).
Quality of lifewise, the reserve service member enjoy the benefit of civilian doctor care, did not have to serve 20-40 years physically + mentally beating up your body and family, no time wasting watch standing, learn new technologies/hottest skills while the rest of DoD is a decade or two behind, and does not have constant deployments.
Additional notes: Some active duty service members continue to serve 30-40 years on active duty which means they will likely not have a second career in their 40's/50's. So their retirement is entirely on their pension (which would be 75% to 100% of their base pay). Finding employment at age 50 can be a huge challenge for senior officers/enlisted. While some active duty service member completely retire after 20 years of service, most have a second career. Same is true for reserve service members who continue to serve until they hit the age/service time limit but they will have the benefit of concurrently accruing time for both military, federal, and their corporate career. They benefit a lot from companies that have after tax 410k in plan rollover to Roth accounts (mega backdoor Roth), RSU/RSO, and bonuses not available thru federal service. Financially savvy reservist will likely max out their yearly contribution and company match, max out their after tax 401k contributions, and use various traditional (tax deferred) to Roth conversion strategies to maximize their retirement account. The above examples does not take into account of future value, adjusted COLA, VA disability, and if the individuals also contributes to TSP and/or IRA.
You win the prize for proving that RC Soldiers understand the numbers. What your comment powerfully communicates is that for an RC Soldier, the pension is just one element (maybe not the most important one) in a highly sophisticated financial decision process.
Exactly. I will retire with TWO pensions, an IRA and full health benefits for me and my wife.
Exactly .. I also think reserves is the way to go financially
@phillipvansickle4220 lucky you. Now live long and prosper.
I have my reserve retirement, Tricare, medicare, my 401, and a business retirement. reserve retirement allowed my to get a better job in the v=civilian world without the hassle of deployments or foreign tours.
Oh....that is an interesting point. Being a grey area retiree let's you focus on your civilian job in a way that you might not have been able to before...I never thought of that.
As a "Reserve" I deployed and did two separate opps to S. Korea, many different upgrade and leadership courses. My one weekend a month went from Sat-Sun to Thur-Sun. Then the two week period went to three weeks depending on "Advanced Party" needs. It isn't as simple as one weekend a month and two weeks a year anymore. Congress needs to reevaluate the worth of a modern day RESERVIST and make it worth giving their prime to wait for Senior citizenship for rewards!
I had 14 years on active duty and 8 years in NG. I ended up with 5500 retirement points. That is about 40% of base pay compared to my regular army counterpart. I learned a rare and valuable medical skill in the army that translated jnto a very lucrative civillian career over lapping my NG time. Army was the best thing I ever did. I retired at 62 thanks to Tricare, cash in the bank and my NG pension. Oh, I knew this math going in. I dont feel cheated in any way. Yes, I served in the Gulf War and Afghanistan.
I'm glad you feel good about the service. You are proving to be like a lot of Reservists who have a highly nuanced view of their service.
I don't have any complaints. I served 4 years active and another 16 years National Guard. I retired an E-7. I had a new house built 5 years ago and my military pay covers my house payment and taxes. I have Tricare and Medicare and pay almost nothing for medical expensives.
That's good. I find that satisfied Reservists tend to be the ones who are the most clear eyed about the benefits. The ones who know what the benefits are worth to them and make a consistent life.
Considering that many corporations don’t offer pensions anymore I believe the reserve pension is worth it. In addition, reservists who are privately employed look at Tri Care coverage at the age 60 as a huge benefit.
I'm impressed by the number of people taking the view that the reserve pension is a valuable component of a larger retirement scheme.
And personally, it was TRICARE that lured me back into uniform. Can you believe that? They got an extra 23 years out of me because civilian health insurance is such a clown show.
Additionally you can get Tricare Retired Reserve while as a gray area retiree which is very competitive compared to plans in the civilian sector .
My actual pension turned out to be more than I expected. But my motivation was the lifetime Tricare coverage after 60. I don't need Part D or any medicare supplement becuase of Tricare. That will be a huge benefit once I am retired from the work force. Reservists should have been eligible for Tricare from day one. Anyone subject to recall should be covered by Tricare, since their health is critical to continued service and readiness.
True. TRICARE is what lured me back into the ranks all those years ago.
I retired from the Air Force with 4 years AD and 22 years in the Air Guard. I retired 27 years ago. My gross pay $1395/ month. One benefit that you will realize as you age is Tricare For Life. Coupled with a zero premium Medicare Advantage plan a recent period of hospitalizations and treatment cost 0$ out of pocket. That is the same benefit as someone who had 26 years AD.
Retired as E-7 at 53.
Bingo. The health insurance options are what got me back into the reserves and kept me serving.
As a Reservist it isn't about the pension, as you said it pennies. It's about the health care benefits. And the military knows it so they hope you stay drilling for it to 60 if you can physically stay in shape of course.
You're 100% right. Somehow I have to figure out how to capture that point more effectively.
I retired in 03 from the Guard with close to 6000 points. I had 10.5 years active and I got a decent payment when I turned 60. I'm not arguing.
6000 points in 2003? That is quite an achievement.
@@the_bureaucrat All my AD and a bunch of deployments
There used to be a cap on points reservists could accumulate in a year. My wife’s pension would be much higher if she got point credit for all the extra weekends she spent flying med evac in the 1980s.
They still do apply a cap, but I think it is only to make sure that a reservist doesn't accumulate more that 360 points in a year.
The 60 rule is stupid, like Social Security they are hoping you die before collecting a Dollar. On top of that all that retirement paperwork you do when you retired you get to do all over again at 60.. all online and is a complete bureaucracy nightmare.
Nightmare indeed. I spend a lot of time helping people overcome what should be a simple process. It seems like HRC wants RC retirees to prove they were even in the military in the first place, when HRC has all the information to begin with. (Had one guy where HRC was like "we need you to down load paperwork from our database, then upload it to our processing systems, and then we will confirm your upload against our database") Total Catch 22 BS.
It's fair because we are full time and 24 hours a day they are only weekend warriors. If they want the same as active duty do the same time as we did or have done. To me it's fair because they have not sacrificed as much as the active duty soldiers
I'm going to add that it's "fair" because people getting a reserve retirement can buy back their years of service for a Federal Pension.
I don't think it is unfair but I think it can be fixed in some ways like getting it early at a reduced rate. I did both active duty and reserve duty and got my pension at age 60, I was surprised that my pension was larger than I anticipated. What is unfair is that the VA doesn't count any injuries you get in the reserves unless you were recalled to active duty at that time. Reservist should get full treatment and medical coverage for any injuries that occur on their weekend drills including the ability to get VA disability.
You are right about those injuries and illnesses. An RC guy who hurts themselves lifting on a Wednesday to prepare for an ACFT is not considered to have a Line of Duty injury.
It’s opportunity cost. The reservist or guard member has the time to work another job, while the active duty member cannot. Oftentimes, they collect a sizable 401K or pension from a civilian employer and establish years of experience in lucrative career fields much earlier than their active duty counterparts.
Ah!!! that's the word! Opportunity cost. You are 100% right. Thanks to you and lots of other folks on this video, I think I have an entirely new way to do the "mandatory RC briefing". Wonderful work.
Most reservists have their civilian careers significantly damaged due to their military service.
@@drewschumann1then perhaps it would be prudent to return to active duty or disassociate from military service all together.
I was a naval reservist. After calculating potential benefits, I found that investing my GI Bill in college full-time and securing a local government union civilian job with a pension would allow me to get vested in 5 years instead of 20, with a higher pension salary. Consequently, I decided to leave the service.
Wonderful. Finding what works best for each of us as individuals is key to success.
Drill is pay one day of base pay for each 4 hour period so 4x24 but base pay only for “16” hours of work.
You also get 15 points for a good year etc.
But in any case a non AGR RC retirement I agree seems ruff unless your almost age 60 and have several years of orders.
Or if a T32 technician etc and also getting FERS.
Don't fall for the "2 days pay for one day work" logic. No paid leave, no Federal Holidays, no sick call. Regular Army folks get a remarkable number of paid days when they are doing exactly nothing (and they get BAS and BAH while they do nothing). ruclips.net/video/TATW3CoYB54/видео.html
@@the_bureaucrat I’m not falling for it I went Air Force to AGR, but working in Military Pay so clarifying the pay portion. Drill or Traditional Guard and Reserve and technicians also tend to get burned on the VA side not being in the right status or not having an a LOD etc.
Changing my tune. THIS is the best one yet.
Thanks, man...gonna keep trying to beat your expectations.
Had a reservist work for me that never tried to advance from the E6 position he came into the reserves at. Guy was an academy grad that resigned his commission after his 6 year comment was over. Some years later he realized he should have gone into the reserves and not resigned. After some work with the recruiter and headquarters he was allowed to enlist as a E6 then did the required drills every year to acquire the minimum points needed till he reached the years needed for retirement. His reserve retirement is based off O-3 pay since that was his highest rank served and he fell into the old high one system, only needed to hold the rank one day to receive the pay benefits..
I ran across more than one of these folks who used to be officers, but then just became junior NCOs. One guy made a whole career of being the Company Commander's driver because he had once been a company commander and...well, someone had to drive the CO around. As several folks have pointed out, reserve time can provide a strange, non-standard, set of advantage.
The only reason I retired from the reserves was because I had 11 years active duty. I was activated twice more (two years) while in the reserves. I was just shy of 7000 points when I retired after 25 years of service as a CPO (E-7). The retirement isn’t that good, but it’s better than nothing.
@disgruntledconservativevet1798...there are some benefits in addition to the pension that make it a plus...mainly TRICARE.
37 years, 4 deployments and a tour in DC. I'm not complaining about my pension. VA kicks in, too. I saved in the TSP and private 401ks, stock, and property, but took real planning and sacrifice. What gripes me is the Tricare for Life stupidity.
How does the TFL bug you? Hit me up at chuck.weko@gmail.com if you want to share more details.
Great video
Thank you.
I served 4 years active army and 9 more years in the USAR (before the GWOT). When I had decided to walk away, I was done. Staying around another 7 years to qualify for the pension wasn't worth it to me (as it turned out, the extra 7 would have put me into the GWOT). When I left the USAR, I had no further commitment on my contract and was not subject to recall.
Nice to be free, isn't it?
@@the_bureaucrat But are we ever truly free? It is said that the strongest prison is the one we build for ourselves.
Yes, there are problems with the system. One good item is Tricare. I was able to retire because Tricare was excellent and was cheaper insurance.
That's awesome.
I was in the Army years ago and i just joined the Coast Guard Reserve as an RN at 38. At my age, the only real difference is i beleive after 6ish years of active duty, non-service related conditions become compensatable; so you could medically retire at 6ish years with pre-existing conditions such as cancer from AD. Not getting Tricare for life is a joke. I am service connected but my wife needed insurance and the reserve tricare is nice but after retirement, i beleive it has to be purchased for a market price. If i like the CG, i'm gonna go active. Not enlisted though, cant afford it
Here is my video on Reserve Tricare Options ruclips.net/video/oYxJN-AFYaI/видео.html. The thing to pay close attention to is that the rates for Tricare while you are a "Grey Area Retiree" are not good. But once you are retired, the rates improve.
Just commenting to help the youtubegodsacknowledgeyourchannel...I appreciate all those who wore the uniform - regardless of status. Thank you for your service and explaining all facets of the affects of bureaucracy for our Sailors, Soldiers, Airmen, and Marines...ok and the Star Trek wannabes too ;)
@beetlefang...Thanks for the gratuitous comment. I've been thinking about asking people to "put a rat in the chat for the Bureaucrat" as a quick way to tell the YT algorithm something positive. Not sure if that would work.
🐀
Yeah it sucks as a grey area retiree. I spent 24 combined active and guard. Two deployment GWOT. The other issue is no tricare till draw date. Oh I can still have it at full price 1500 for a family.
Remember the early retirement...that should help a bit.
Colonel, i'm enjoying ur videos! How the hell did u do in Pentagon that long! Im prior service ret 04. I'm pissed because I got OEF'd b4 2008 and jipped. But hey i'll still get my retirement slightly before 58. I loved my decade of $19/month hazardous duty pay (airborne) as a SOCOM IMA!
The pentagon works like a whirlpool. It sucks some people in and spits others out. You would be surprised how many young majors get assigned there and literally never leave. I'm glad you are enjoying the videos.
Great video!👍
Thanks, Jake.
I’m retired Air Force and also did 4 years in the Air Guard between active duty periods. RC time counts toward longevity 1:1, and every active duty day is 2 points toward RC retirement. Most guys I knew who transferred to the RC did it because they wanted a civilian career, were unwilling to PCS, or were getting family pressure for more stability. Fair enough. Those are personal decisions, there are trade offs, and they are known. Yes, many RC guys were activated and deployed to SWA. They were compensated, got extra allowances, tax exemption, and a lot more points, plus maintaining their civilian job status as if they never left. The very definition of having your cake and eating it too. Don’t forget the dirty little secret of a lot of GWOT-era RC activations-they were to HQ units, for a year (with multiple extensions), on full lodging/per diem. Guys bunked 4 to an apartment and many banked six figures. Saw it myself in Europe and the Pacific; they bragged about it. It was 100% legal; nobody broke the law, but it doesn’t engender much sympathy for the poor downtrodden reservist. Nobody is better at figuring out how to get over and run numbers like a reservist. If the numbers don’t work, they’re gone.
Excellent points (especially about how Reservists don't volunteer for duties that abuse them unfairly). I think that you push the narrative of "fair is in the eye of the beholder" well. Some other folks have made the point that if the pension was really unfair, reservists wouldn't hang around for it.
Active duty days are 1 point. Inactive duty days are 2 points. You can never get more than 365 points as an RC troop.
I hope you got the COVID vaccine. As a Reservist, I refused because the pay and "benefits" are garbage anyways in the Reserve, but eventually they gave up on the mandate so I fucking won.
@@the_bureaucratUmm, they're not fucking hanging around. Recruiting and retention in the Reserves are at an all-time low.
Worth it and fair are two different standards. It can be totally worth it to someone and still unfair. It was worth it to me but obviously unfair compared to my AC counterparts. But that was the deal I signed up for. I maxed out every benefit I could being mobilized for over 10 years. Racked up over 7,600 points and the early retirement from the Reserves.
That is a smart insight. I never thought about how there could be situations where a benefit was "unfair" but still "worth it"
THE MILITARY OWES ME A LOT OF MONEY AFTER 21+ YEARS OF SERVICE ! It was a struggle to get my 20 good years for retirement. I am 58 now and finally I am on the last stretch to get my retirement. I got my retirement orders and they can't even tell me what my retirement it is going to be. It is a big mistery to today.
That issue of the military not being able to tell you what your retirement is worth is a problem for everyone no matter what their type of service. Many people are forced to make a major life decision without an estimate how much the get afterwards.
@@manuelfloressr.9039 which branch did you serve in?
Pension isn't great. However, between medical, college benefits and other additional training for Alot of people, it sets them in a much more focused future. There is also something to be said about all duty not created equal...
I've started to believe that the "secret" of Reserve service is in "building your own package" for that focused future. At some point I need to get back around to this topic.
Spoken like a true bureaucrat. Active duty vs Reserve pension are two completely different animals…no comparison at all.
That's a great way of putting it..."different animals". I'd say that in general, the RC benefit package is entirely different than the AC one and that comparison is a mistake for someone trying to decide which is better. The trick is figuring out an alternative way of communicating that.
Not fair, age 60 to high, should just a standard 55. Regardless of what status you are, the military member wrote a blank check with their life whenever you get called upon to serve in a combat zone.
I bumped into a new little twist on this...did you know that reserve members can buy back their military time for a Federal pension even if they qualify for and draw a Military Pension?
Most Reserve guys serve on active duty and get more days there.
Also a reserve guy can earn a pension in a civilian job
And a reserve guy can serve in a Federal Agency and get a FERS Pension: ruclips.net/video/PF_ZLXuIIjU/видео.html. The trick with Reserve Duty is to build a package of benefits that works for you.
I hate after 20 years u don't receive your retirement until your 60 and tricare is like 500 dollars a month after u retire
Hang on...After a Reservist retires, they get the same Tricare as regular retirees...that $500 bill is the Tricare Retired Reserve that's in effect up to age 60. Hit me up at chuck.weko@gmail.com if you're experiencing something different.
It’s unfair because I have to survive the next 17-18 years to see the pension I spent 21+ years working toward as a reservist while also working full time. I always did far more than 1 weekend a month and 2 weeks a year too. From a fiscal standpoint, it’s a lot of money to pay out to reserve retirees if everyone collects pensions right away, but at the same time, when the government sends billions of dollars overseas and DoD can’t pass an audit if their life depended on it, it’s frustrating.
That is an fascinating take. What I hear you saying is that the size of the pension isn't the issue. Even the life time amount of the pension. It's the fact that a 58 year old Grey Area Retiree who dies of a heart attack gets ZERO. hmmm.
If you don’t make it, there is survivor benefits
@@yepyep6916I would still like to see the money that I earned. That’s why it’s unfair.
@@j.karlton2591 agree
That's why someone can go active duty then join the reserves or go AGR in the reserve
And its one of the reasons we have to consider someone's BASD.
It’s totally fair. Part-time soldier, part-time pay, part-time retirement. Plus all the benefits involved while on duty. Besides, the opportunity to maintain their primary careers without losing professional progress while activated only gives an advantage to that service member, ESPECIALLY while deployed. Imagine getting promoted at the same rate as your civilian peer when you were gone for a year WHILE progressing your part-time military career.
Sure, but a part-time retirement should not start at 60 when you earn it at 40, for example. The big problem here is the grey area which forces retirement eligible reservists to leave A TON of money on the table for up to 20 years. Why should they wait that long to receive the pension they earned?
@@Flevvers the rules change if you were activated/deployed. You can draw sooner by their wizard math. But it should be expected that if you earn a pension after 20 years of part-time service, you draw at a later date than service members with 20 full-time years. Surely you don’t think both part-time and full-time service members should draw at the same time do you?
It is feasible to expand NG/Reservist retirement get paid immediately upon retiring. The payout is still less, obviously due to part time service.
I think @SNAKEATER1776 and @runnerxa have something in common here. The video makes it seem like the Reserve Pension is the only benefit that comes with being RC. I think @SNAKEATER1776 is saying that the opportunity to be a part-time Soldier is a benefit in itself. While some Active Duty guy is raking gravel between deployments, his RC counterpart is making the most of his civilian career. And the opportunity to grow as a civilian is a benefit I didn't account for.
Fact check, @@the_bureaucrat. When a Reserve Component member transitions to the Gray Area, it’s a transition to the Retired Reserve and the member is subject to recall the same as the active duty retiree. They aren’t assigned to the IRR. AND the RC member can CHOOSE to discharge instead of going into the Retired Reserve. That means NO CALL UP during the Gray Area, and they get (almost) the same retired pay. If they discharge, they get paid according to the pay table when they discharge, not the one when they start receiving retired pay - that’s missing out on the annual COLA in return for not being recallable. It could be a lot for the average 12 years in the Gray Area. Bottom line: “fair” gets you a lot of clicks, but you have not adequately examined the subject. Recommend you withhold that “fair” word until you examine the whole subject, such as Gray Area retirees receiving an ID card and non pay benefits like the Commissary and PX (though TRICARE Retired Reserve, which they can opt into in the Gray Area, is not subsidized and not a great value). What Congress needs to require is a reexamination of the entire RC retirement benefit with the standard of - not is it “fair” - does it do what we need it to do: encourage enough RC members to serve until retirement. That’s the same standard applied to the AC retirement. Good on you for making this a topic of discussion. 👍
Who does 63 days a year for 20 years in the reserve component. That is a thing of the past.
True...I just used it as a benchmark.
Yea I'm national guard we do alot more days because of hurricanes but hurricane is state active duty@@the_bureaucrat
What makes being in the reserves worth it is not the pention, its access to tricare
Straight up there. Open market healthcare with deductibles and a $5k out of pocket cap cost me $1k a month for just me and that beats any other option in my area. Many guys I know that transferred to the reserves also hold a government job or are contractors servicing the government and will have two government pensions.
I feel like I need to do a video on that point.
One weekend a month, two weeks a year my ass. I deployed four times in the national guard. As soon as I hit my 20 I retired. I don’t get my pension until I hit 60 minus any time (certain orders) they subtract off my retirement age. I collect at 58 now.
I feel you. The part that always got me was that they could reassign you to a different unit to send you again.
@@the_bureaucrat I can only imagine how it is now for guard members serving i too did my 20 and not a day over I did the double employment over the course of years from 2011 to 2023 but started my active duty time in 2002 it’s such a rough road to endure I bought back my active duty time to help my leave accrual as a federal employee and to help my pension
A better & more Constitutionally sound solution?
Dramatically reduce the number of Regular Army (T-10) billets…shifting those funds to create more National Guard billets/units.
The result would be a much larger Total Army…for far less money.
As 20 years of GWOT has shown, if we fully fund the training & equipment needs of NG units…then they are just as combat effective as their T-10 Big Army counterparts.
Constitutionally and practically speaking, maintaining a large standing (e.g. full-time) Army is inherently problematic and anti-Democratic.
Oh...I gotta remember this point. I'm doing a review of a report that pretty much highlights this exact problem.
It's a total screw-job!! I retired in 2007 (after 23 yrs of combined Active/Guard/Reserve time) and still can't get my Retired Pay for another two years. During those years, it's about $250K in Retired Pay that I've lost. If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't do it. And that's not even counting all the injuries I've received.
#TOTALSCREWJOB
I have to do more digging, but it sounds like grey area retirees can claim a VA disability before they begin receiving their pension.
@@the_bureaucrat I'm assuming this was for someone else, but yes, GAR's can collect VA Disability before their Mil Retired Pay.
@@the_bureaucratyes they can collect VA disability even while still in however they can’t collect their retirement after 20 unless they have enough points to equal 20 years active including if they were an AGR and/or did multiple deployments.
@@the_bureaucratVA disability can only be granted if on active duty. Drill injuries don’t count.
You didn't consider people that did part active duty and the rest reserve. Their payments will be alot more.
Indeed. Plus 100% Reserve folks who did a lot of ADOS or Mob Orders would also have higher payments.
Great vid!! Any advice on going Reserve after 4 years as AD?
I expect you might get some advice from others, but here is what I would do. Go into the IRR, but make sure you get a "good year". That requires some effort, but can be done. That way you are not bound to some unit schedule and you don't get sucked right back into the military mindset. Do IRR for a year or two. You will get calls from dozens of TPU units trying to get you to join them. Pick carefully (if you even want to go TPU). That's where I would start.
Do you know reservists (National Guard and reserves of any branch) can delay taking their pension until age 66? They can take a lump-sum of up to six years and then start monthly payments. I know, because I just filed for my National Guard retirement at age 62. I did 16 and-a-half years active duty and 3 and-a-half years in the reserves. I just bought a small home and paid cash. I delayed taking payments because I have a good government job.
Two Thoughts (one a Caution & one a way for you to get more money)
#1) You have to be careful with that 6 year rule. You can't get more than 6 years back pay and some reserves qualify for early retirement so waiting until 66 would deprive them of part of their pension. ruclips.net/video/MGD5KwuV2Yw/видео.html
#2) Did you know that retired Reservists can "buy back" their active duty time towards their Federal Pension? Regular retirees can't but guys like you can. The video is coming, but if you want a sneak peek, email me at chuck.weko@gmail.com
I suggest that if a guy is considering a career in the Reserve Component as a way to generate income that guy should consider another plan.
I'd tend to agree. Just the money isn't enough to make it worthwhile. You have to be getting something else of value.
@@the_bureaucrat Yep, That said though I was surprised how much my first military retirement check was. I initially joined the Army (RA) in 1965 and got out in 1968 after returning from Vietnam. 16 years later I joined the Army National Guard from which I retired in 2006 upon my 60th birthday as an E-8 so my retirement checks began immediately. I never really intended to stay in the Guard until I turned 60 but one thing led to another and that's what happened.
The only members in the Guard/Reserve who are possibly motivated to stay are those who are Technicians (FERS employees who have to maintaine Reserve membership) and those who are AGR, and of course they come with problems of their own, ask me how I know 😂
How do you know?
@@the_bureaucrat was a technician for the Guard for 30 years, (Apache helicopter maintenance)and one of the biggest gripes was you couldn't get a reenlistment bonus, another one was that it was taken for granted that you were supposed to be able to do "Guard/Drill" stuff" doing your regular civilian technician time (The Technician program has some weird conflicting problems with the Mday side of the NG) AGR officers had the biggest problem understanding this.
I should also say, because I had a little over 9 years of active duty before joining the NG and 3 deployments during my time in the Guard my retirement points are equal to almost 19 years of active service (which is why I stayed in)
The numbers are fair, you get a 1 to 1 day compensation for your Guard/Reserve duty towards your pension. In fact you generally get more(1 day per MUTA, each drill day is usually 2 MUTAs)
What is unfair is the 60 year old retirement age, you're just flat out getting shafted in comparison to the Active component who can get theirs up to 20 years before you.
I would agree. The fact that reservists have to wait for 20 years to collect the pension is the strange inequity.
The 1 to 1 comparison is not correct. The active component gets paid for 30 days a month, but doesn't work 30 days a month. They usually don't work weekends and they earn 2.5 days of leave per month. So that's 10 days, on average, not counting DONSAs, federal holidays, etc. that they are not working an getting paid for. And all of those count towards their retirement.
Pretty fair especially if they secure some disability. I put in 8 years of active time so that will boost my pension when the time comes.
Plus, I've learned that Federal Employees who get a Reserve Pension can also buy back all their military time towards FERS...that just adds to the benefits. Oh...and TRICARE.
One weekend a month / two weeks a year is the "bare minimum" and not normally considered an adequate level of participation. As an Air Force Reserve pilot, I'm required to maintain EXACTLY the same training, currency, and readiness requirements as my active-duty counterparts. We do the exact same missions, are just as subject to deployments, and I'd be willing to bet that I fly even more than my AD peers who get paid leave when they're not at work. The country definitely gets its bang for the buck with reservists. It's one thing to prorate retired pay based on points earned, but the Age 60 rule is totally arbitrary and unfair.
You are right about the "bare minimum". I'm surprised how much the RCs still use that as a recruiting tool.
Agree. Same on the Navy Reserve aviation side. Pilots and aircrew have to use AFTPs in addition to the one weekend a month to just maintain min flight hours and proficiency, not to mention mission readiness.
Reservists don't earn leave either. Unless, their unit gets called to regular Active Duty exceeding 30 days. So another screw you!
Check this video out (ruclips.net/video/TATW3CoYB54/видео.html)...its about that "getting two days pay for one days work" BS the Active Duty likes to spew.
Im at 19 years with 5 activations, I get my pension at 56 1/4 due to not all my activations being title 10.
@_BARCODE, hang on...credit for active duty time isn't based on mobilization authority. I'm not sure what Title 32 or 14 activations you had, but under certain conditions, they can count towards early retirement. Email me at chuck.weko@gmail.com if you want to dig deeper.
P.S. where are the video and link he was supposedly pounting to at the end of the video?
Depends on the platform you view these videos on. I'm fairly certain that LinkedIn blocks links to other videos. Even some cellphone seem to remove the links.
@@the_bureaucrat watched it on RUclips
The way around all this is become a fed tech two retirements
20 years active duty pension + 20 years state pension by the time you’re 58. 🤷🏻♂️
No doubt. Even just a non-MILTECH Federal Employee...you can get two retirement.
I can retire next year in the Reserve. Can’t collect till I’m 55. But a guy on active duty can immediately if he retired, because he was active. That alone meets the threshold of unfair.
How is unfair?
It's in the contract.
@@ufo_vid9694 We can’t change things because they are in a contract?
@@tylermitchell5765 Sign another contract, one that works for you and your needs. If the person needs active duty benefits then go active duty.
@@tylermitchell5765 were you not aware of the comparison of drawing that pension and amount when you first signed the contract? Seems like your own personal choice. 🤷🏻♂️
You might want to look at things like @runnerxa. They would argue that you would be thinking about how to find the benefit. I don't know the answer for you personally, but I bet there is an angle.
Did you retire from AGR ?
Yes. I spent 2 years IRR and 3 TPU. My company command was while TPU. I never really figured out what motivated the TPUs (especially the senior NCOs). They worked like crazy for a system that took a lot of advantage of them.
I just got my first AGR offer. Got 7 years active already. Hoping to ride the train to retirement
More revenue and National Guard soldiers were wounded in Iraq
Hmmm...I wonder if a Grey Area Retiree can collect a VA Disability...a cursory internet search suggests the answer is "yes", but I gotta dig into some more authoritative sites.
You can and I am
Why do Social Security workers have to wait until 66 years? Why is that fair and by the way no taxpayer contributed into their fund…they paid in themselves…why is that fair….cry me a river
Strange.
railroad retirement is not fair either, may get as much as they got when working,,, 80 grand a year,, ss is maybe 20
Hmmm, I know just enough about the Railroad retirement system to know that it exists. I never thought of doing a compare and contrast.
The reserve guy should get a fed tech job he will come out better
You are right and it doesn’t even have to be a MILTECH job. It can be any FERS covered job
I’d be happy with that pension if you didn’t have to wait til 60
Are you tracking the Early Retirement option?
@ negative. I’m barely tracking the pension
My tri care for life saved us though
Really? I'd be curious to understand how. hit me up at chuck.weko@gmail.com
I hate that u have to wait until ur 60 yo to collect retirement
Remember that you can qualify for an early reserve retirement if you had Active Time (ruclips.net/video/t6y7t_yTfDE/видео.html)...you don't even have to have deployed overseas.
I served Active Duty, then National Guard, then Active again. Unless you get called up to serve multiple back to back deployments, the careers just don’t compare. The reservist gets to have a life in their hometown, career opportunities, and a level of luxury an Active Duty member couldn’t aspire to unless they made O7. In my NG service I saw multiple men who would collect massive government and/or corporate pensions from their civilian jobs. Or were simply earning enough to fund their own retirement. I even knew a millionaire who served. Plenty were ‘Nam or even Korean War vets who would’ve laughed if asked if reserve duty compared to active. And they well knew their NG pension was a joke - basically beer money.
You know at one time til about WW I, militiamen weren’t even _paid_ unless called up, right? Service was entirely patriotism driven.
@EricDaMAJ, I think you are spot on. I might expand this line of thinking into a video.
Being a reserve component SM in 1924 vs 2024 is two totally different worlds.
@@anthonykaiser974 Indeed. We could've fought most of GWOT with a 1924 style reserve component. Probably even won, as they used Lincoln's Civil War General Order 100 as a template for dealing with guerrillas . And I doubt they would've had the patience for back to back deployments.
Umm, no, most don't get to have a life in their hometown because they have to go where the money is, and most don't even want to stay in their hometown, so that isn't a perk anyways, idiot.
@@EricDaMAJAlso, a reserve pension is based entirely on time served, which means you'll receive way less than an active duty pension, so why make them wait until 60 ON TOP of having a reduced pension????
Always another episode.......
They always make up some kind of reason to steal.....
At least i got a room that they cant take without going to court....
And that would mess up their scams
Nice room to have.
@@the_bureaucrat
Real sad, confused and lonely though....
But,... It is a nice room.....
You need to go back and do your homework. To begin with, a reserve component soldier receives 4 days pay for a 2 day drill weekend.
You need to go back and listen to the video again. He covers that.
Thanks.
22 YEARS 11B
Not a bad career.
@@donhodges1965 all active duty? Did you start new career?
Seems like these comments are fake and trying to portray Reserve retirement as a fair system, which it totally isn't. Reservists only get retirement pay credit for days served, so if you only do weekend drills during any given year, you receive very little retirement pay credit for that year. Whereas active duty receive 2.5% of their high-3 pay toward retirement pay for every year they serve, Reservists who aren't on orders receive an average of .5% in a year, which ain't SHIT. If we're only receiving credit for time served every year, which is usually a small fraction of the credit that AD troops get in a year since they serve 365 days a year rather than just weekends, then why the fuck do we also have to wait until 60? WE ONLY GET CREDIT (POINTS) FOR THE DAYS WE FUCKING SERVED!!! OUR RETIREMENT PAY IS GENERALLY A LOT LESS THAN ACTIVE DUTY, AND WE HAVE TO FUCKING WAIT UNTIL WE'RE 60 ON TOP OF IT????
@SeanBorgen, the more I read these comments, the more I get the sense that people who think the Reserve Pension is "fair" actually view Reserve Service as an a-la-carte set of benefits. I think many of them would say "The Reserve Pension in isolation is not fair, but when combined with other benefits, it is".
@the_bureaucrat It's just that the average pension for a Reservist is only going to be like 15%-20% of high-3 after 20 years, whereas active gets 50% after 20 years. If they're only getting a small fraction of the pension anyways, then how is it fair to make them wait until 60, especially considering the increased optempo of the Reserve? At this point the Reserve deploys just as much, if not EVEN MORE than active duty! They literally changed Army Reserve ID cards so they don't even say "Reserve" anymore and they're identical to active duty ID cards. Why would they do that?????