As a laymen, with no experience in cave art or the plaeo scene in general, I wonder if they were keeping track of their dead. And if there may be a correlation between the number of bodies and marks on the wall?
Or leaving instructions for the deceased. Makes one wonder if all hominoids had rituals surrounding life and death. It's clearly an attempt by a conscious being to communicate. My crows yell at me all the time. I never know what they are saying, but I get the message most of the time. These findings really don't surprise me in the least. I don't think you have to be a rocket scientist to advance one's understanding of human evolution, but I was raised by one, so, I'm in.
I've been reading everything I can on this in the last few days. and I've been following the story for the last year. It is controversial. Seems like some of the criticism is about rushing to publicise, hasty claims and lack of evidence. That's fair comment, but the whole site is highly unusual, to say the least. I find Lee Berger's hypotheses quite reasonable, given the extreme circumstances presented.
Thank you for your great work. I think there may be a way for Genevieve to get to the heart of the matter more succinctly and consistently. Sometimes we get bogged down and repetitive in introductory contextual ideas.
Hey everyone! While you wait, make sure you turn on that notification button, the bell-looking icon, and drop a like and share so we can all go on this amazing journey together!
Im glad I've stumbled upon your channel, I love being able to learn about these new findings from sources more reputable than clickbait news articles. And to get updates on things that are one time headlines in normal media outlets. I've subscribed and am looking forwards to learning more!
Said it before but worth repeating. Genevieve's enthusiasm is infectious! Loved this. So many questions still to be answered,which is what makes paleoanthropology (and science in general) so fascinating. Great talk, great guest on a great channel. Ta both.
Starting at 42:16 this discussion about superposition helped me contemplate the wider range of possible uses of sediments mentioned in the articles. Now I'm thinking of all the ways we have prepared, revised, or enhanced surfaces used to create meaning (especially when that surface is reused due to expense or labor invested, or because the surface has a permanent location.) Washing an animal skin with lime to prepare vellum, using pigment to illuminate a manuscript, scraping the surface of vellum to reuse it. In more recent times: covering a typo with whiteout and correcting over the top, erasing a drawing in a sketchbook, or highlighting a word in a text. At first use of sediment for some of these possible purposes was hard to envision or seemed woefully inadequate. But like ads painted on top of each other on a brick building it would have been clearer for a contemporary audience to perceive during/after a fresh revision (and in their original cultural context.) Many years later we see a superimposed jumble of faded ghost signs that might have advertised one cigar brand over the years. Or might have promoted a buggy whip manufacturer, a caddy butcher, a millner, then a theosophist. (Not trying to imply any specific use, or a direct equivalence or correspondence with these loose metaphors, just trying to comprehend a range of uses and meanings that may have persisted over time or may have changed, that are harder to interpret now due to physical aging as well as the loss of context.)
Thank you, Genevieve and Seth, for a wonderfully informative and intriguing discussion! These are such exciting topics - I'm thrilled that the scientists involved are giving the public a "sneak-peek" into their findings, even if their conclusions are not yet decidedly conclusive. And, considering that it may take years before there's any kind of general consensus it's nice to have some of the data presented so we can at least have the fun of speculating about what these discoveries might mean! Thanks, again!
Perhaps there was an understanding that, " Make a mark here, for the person you are burying", & so each deceased received a marker on the cave wall. ........... ????
Great comment on the dirt in the burial chamber some of this dirt was once Naledi. I have looked on line unsuccessfully to see how much soil a 100 pound body becomes after decompensation with the bones removed. I haven't seen a mention of any analysis of the dirt in the burial chamber it would need to be done for several locations. I know the excavators remove and bag all the dirt but an analysis would require it to be from a single location.
I have seen the new film about the Rising Star cave and the parts of the cave concerning Homo naledi and the Naledi Chamber. Why not view the engravings as a “Message Board” considering the human need to communicate back and forth with family members and tribal members as a possible concept. In the film the markings were compared to those found in other cave systems elsewhere and the parallels presented were striking in their close resemblance. Clearly it is not certain who created these markings because some reviewers are saying they could have been made by the cavers who had visited the cave over various times and alerted Lee Berger to their findings.
Lee Berger mentioned that the signs had been worked in layers over time and ochre had been added. Perhaps the message,, if it is a message, had to be restated and perhaps in stronger or different terms to be got across. As a cultural site, the Rising Star Cave system cannot be underestimated.This not so distant relative of ours would logically be capable of dreaming . Perhaps without language he or she would not have been able to express what had occurred in the dream; however, making marks on a rock wall could have been the outcome of their considering their dreams, fear and wonderment.
"Caution" can't only apply to the new theories! If we are scientifically cautious, we should also include "caution" about old theories when new evidence arises that doesn't seem to support those old theories well.
It's interesting to watch the process from discovery to reporting evolve in real time. The clash of personalities, principles, and interests. Science is a human endeavor with all that goes with that.
100,000 years ago... A world we barely remember in our dreams and most ancient legends... Told, retold, and distorted over the ages... Lost to time, but not completely forgotten A world not only of Man. But of Others. "Hobbits" and "Elves" and "Dwarves" and "Giants" and "Trolls".... (Oh my!) Not Hollywood fantasy. Real as you or I. Being born. Living. Dying. Same as us. Humans, but not us. All gone now.
love the stipulation that maybe the whole field needs to rethink how they think/name/classify what they're finding. like what does the term human really mean and encompass? we are still in the "this way be dragons" part of the program in many ways :)
Why, after all these years, was Berger the first one to notice soot on the ceiling of the cave, a large fire pit and some fairly obvious cave markings? My guess, his team gave him time to loose weight and get in there to "make the discovery himself," giving it max. PR. No harm in it really, just saying....
He has talked about this in interviews. IIRC it was something along the lines of each person having specific tasks, partially being directed by Lee from outside, that required them to focus on looking down and digging, and the main focus apart from this being on everyone getting safely out of the cave every day. Whereas when he entered he knew it was a one-off event so he just wanted to look around and soak up as much as possible, and did not have any specific tasks that he needed to concentrate on. This was his conclusion after asking himself that same question, and the others in the team wondering too, obviously.
@@rdklkje13There is no conceivable reason that not a single one of the excavators would have left the walls and ceiling unexamined. Cave walls and ceilings are examined immediately because of the major safety issues inherent to cave excavation. If nobody looked at the walls or ceiling in the chamber until Berger fortuitously got the chance to go in, that’s perhaps even worse than if he had bottled up that discovery for his own glorification. This whole “they were only looking down” thing is seriously cartoonish.
It is telling that blurry pictures and hearsay about UFOs gets headlines and viral videos. But hard data, close up pictures, dated strata and small brain hominids that throw the very concept of what is "a human" into a tailspin, gets almost no promotion. Solid content
Great job Seth. Good snag getting Genevieve on for an interview. I wonder if anyone has considered the possibility that the engravings are a representation of a map of some kind. I know that sounds ridiculous, but doesn't it need to at least be considered?
@@worldofpaleoanthropology I an hoping that we soon have graphical representations of all of the created marks. Something drawn, showing all of the stuff that is on those 3 panels (or more, if they find more). I would be very interested in viewing such. In fact, I might even actually donate to a site. Something I have never done for any RUclips site. Seth, got any plans for this?
I think that you nailed it when you said, "intentionally altered with purpose". Also, it's important that the markings aren't functional. They don't do anything. They may be equivalent to a sign, literally a "marker", but their purpose will likely never be known. But there's no f'n doubt that they're there.
I've been reading Graeber and Wengrow's Dawn of Everything. That has led me to renewing an old interest in this stuff, and hence finding videos like this. Thanks for this. Question for you guys--is there a single recent book I can read to catch up on this stuff? Like Genevieve said, we've developed all these new technologies to throw them at Neandertals. Great. Fascinating. Where is that story, and other important ones to catch me up? I also asked this at the post of Lee's presentation of this like 12 days ago, but I'll ask here too. Were they presumably doing these particular markings in the dark? Isn't that in itself odd? But did they have any lighting? I can't imagine that's what we are talking about here, either. Please help me with my stupid questions!
No stupid questions 😀. Genevieve has a book out herself about ice age art named “First Signs” that talks about alot of the possible meaning of geometric signs and symbols. Lee has a new book coming out in August which is really good. But everything is so new there isn’t really a one for all yet. We have evidence that naledi used fire 🔥 quite frequently in the cave. So they would have had lighting. Hope that helps😁
@@worldofpaleoanthropology A friend of mine is an engineering professor, and when a student prefaces a question with "This might be a stupid question but..." he interrupts and says, "There are no stupid questions, there are only stupid people," which doesn't allay the fears of the student at all! Ha. One thing, I never got Genevieve's last name. Might ahve been in the video but missed it and it is not in the description here. Fire, huh? I mean, yeh, this is pre flash lights, so sure, but gosh, seems problematic. I mean, I believe you, just sends the mind reeling. Is there residue left on the ceilings, etc? LOoking forward to learning more. Watched a Q&A vid with Lee, John Hawks and blanking on the 3rd guy's name--long black hair. Good discussion. Will look for more, esp of Genevieve--very passionate about it all, including just the whole deal of science!
I’ll need to fix that, her full name is Genevieve von Petzinger. Yea there is residue on the ceilings, they have even found hearths. The real Question at this point, is, was it naledi? We are waiting on dating results.
These are geometric shapes like triangles, quadrangles, and parallel lines: bases for geometry, engineering, astronomy, architecture, etc. through out known history. Respectfully, I disagree with you most strenuously.
Feel like this isn't art but something with purpose, such as a marker. But why engrave rather than paint? Did they not know about paint? Why not a marker with charcoal?
i would also like to add my own spitball reaction to the main image we see. looks very much like a bird in a cage/trap(to me) and could it be a non human cultural representation of their idea of what death seems to be to them. something has flown away from these lifeless bodies of their kin...a bird(life) looking to fly away from the cage/trap (body) it is in
Dear Seth Its a brilliant interview, but could you maybe somehow get a better microphone 🎤? It’s a bit disturbing that the sound is not as good as it could be. ❤
Personally, I find it very questionable when a scientist goes public instead of first submitting to peers. What happens is sensationalism, hyperbole, wishful thinking, and ultimately bad science.
That a developing homonin tribe not want to see a passed member torn up outside the cave by a predator and rather move a body deep inside to avoid the wreak of death may not equate to ritual. Even tossing dirt over a dead body or waste to reduce smell is not necessarily a formal burial. Scratch marks, who knows.. location, family or claim designation? Art, ritual message for the dead, that seems a bit much but maybe one day revealed
The questions is if those things happened, not that they would be important if they did. If these prove true, the implications are large. This is an important find. But it’s proving it true that will be hard.
I'm really pissed of with Lee and his team. I thought burial, art and fire form this species was so cool and just assumed it would not be released if it was not close to passing peer review. Then the reviews came out...
Too much hype coming from the Berger/Naledi camp. Not convinced about the burial too. There is a difference between a bone dump and a burial. Esp Berger. She is really really walking back their orginal claims.
Get rid of the crinoid fossile both positive (minerals) and negative (a void) we already know from the amount of bones the cave system is highly minerilized i have many rocks that i found out were mineralized organics that have very similar markings
Firelight? Can you say co2 poisoning? and show the vast wood pile.couldnt drag branchs down tiny openings how about food stores let alone post digestion leavings if cave dwellers nocturnal would make sense and food plants and fruits without farming did they moue the cave?
That cave, as has been explained many times, has adequate wire flow to permit fires. If they could get a body down there, anything else would be easy I’d think.
Change that icon picture. That represents animals and humans and naledi didn't produce those. It's misinformation and clickbait fraud. You know it too.
As a laymen, with no experience in cave art or the plaeo scene in general, I wonder if they were keeping track of their dead. And if there may be a correlation between the number of bodies and marks on the wall?
Or leaving instructions for the deceased. Makes one wonder if all hominoids had rituals surrounding life and death. It's clearly an attempt by a conscious being to communicate. My crows yell at me all the time. I never know what they are saying, but I get the message most of the time. These findings really don't surprise me in the least. I don't think you have to be a rocket scientist to advance one's understanding of human evolution, but I was raised by one, so, I'm in.
I've been reading everything I can on this in the last few days. and I've been following the story for the last year. It is controversial. Seems like some of the criticism is about rushing to publicise, hasty claims and lack of evidence. That's fair comment, but the whole site is highly unusual, to say the least. I find Lee Berger's hypotheses quite reasonable, given the extreme circumstances presented.
"pictures on a wall" as a definition for art might be the best one ive heard
Thank you for your great work. I think there may be a way for Genevieve to get to the heart of the matter more succinctly and consistently. Sometimes we get bogged down and repetitive in introductory contextual ideas.
Hey everyone! While you wait, make sure you turn on that notification button, the bell-looking icon, and drop a like and share so we can all go on this amazing journey together!
Im glad I've stumbled upon your channel, I love being able to learn about these new findings from sources more reputable than clickbait news articles. And to get updates on things that are one time headlines in normal media outlets. I've subscribed and am looking forwards to learning more!
Thanks so much that means a lot!
Said it before but worth repeating. Genevieve's enthusiasm is infectious! Loved this. So many questions still to be answered,which is what makes paleoanthropology (and science in general) so fascinating. Great talk, great guest on a great channel. Ta both.
Thanks so much!
We live in exciting times. Open access is the future of science.
Starting at 42:16 this discussion about superposition helped me contemplate the wider range of possible uses of sediments mentioned in the articles. Now I'm thinking of all the ways we have prepared, revised, or enhanced surfaces used to create meaning (especially when that surface is reused due to expense or labor invested, or because the surface has a permanent location.) Washing an animal skin with lime to prepare vellum, using pigment to illuminate a manuscript, scraping the surface of vellum to reuse it. In more recent times: covering a typo with whiteout and correcting over the top, erasing a drawing in a sketchbook, or highlighting a word in a text.
At first use of sediment for some of these possible purposes was hard to envision or seemed woefully inadequate. But like ads painted on top of each other on a brick building it would have been clearer for a contemporary audience to perceive during/after a fresh revision (and in their original cultural context.) Many years later we see a superimposed jumble of faded ghost signs that might have advertised one cigar brand over the years. Or might have promoted a buggy whip manufacturer, a caddy butcher, a millner, then a theosophist.
(Not trying to imply any specific use, or a direct equivalence or correspondence with these loose metaphors, just trying to comprehend a range of uses and meanings that may have persisted over time or may have changed, that are harder to interpret now due to physical aging as well as the loss of context.)
Great interview! Genevieve brought up some very thought provoking points. I always look forward to her talks & interviews. Thanks Seth!
Thank you, Genevieve and Seth, for a wonderfully informative and intriguing discussion! These are such exciting topics - I'm thrilled that the scientists involved are giving the public a "sneak-peek" into their findings, even if their conclusions are not yet decidedly conclusive. And, considering that it may take years before there's any kind of general consensus it's nice to have some of the data presented so we can at least have the fun of speculating about what these discoveries might mean! Thanks, again!
I clearly should have gone for a paleoanthropology degree! Fascinating stuff!! Look forward to your next video.
It’s amazing stuff!
Perhaps there was an understanding that, " Make a mark here, for the person you are burying", & so each deceased received a marker on the cave wall. ........... ????
That is an amazing idea! We will never know for sure, but a great hypothesis!
Spectacular interview! Thank you, Genevieve and Seth, this was an amazing video to watch. I can't wait to hear more from you guys.
We had such a blast! Be sure to check out our most recent interview together, and look forward to our Q&A in the near future!
Great comment on the dirt in the burial chamber some of this dirt was once Naledi. I have looked on line unsuccessfully to see how much soil a 100 pound body becomes after decompensation with the bones removed. I haven't seen a mention of any analysis of the dirt in the burial chamber it would need to be done for several locations. I know the excavators remove and bag all the dirt but an analysis would require it to be from a single location.
Curious to know if other Naledi communities had similar practices. We might never now, yet
As of now, this is the only “community’ yet found.
I have seen the new film about the Rising Star cave and the parts of the cave concerning Homo naledi and the Naledi Chamber. Why not view the engravings as a “Message Board” considering the human need to communicate back and forth with family members and tribal members as a possible concept. In the film the markings were compared to those found in other cave systems elsewhere and the parallels presented were striking in their close resemblance. Clearly it is not certain who created these markings because some reviewers are saying they could have been made by the cavers who had visited the cave over various times and alerted Lee Berger to their findings.
Lee Berger mentioned that the signs had been worked in layers over time and ochre had been added. Perhaps the message,, if it is a message, had to be restated and perhaps in stronger or different terms to be got across. As a cultural site, the Rising Star Cave system cannot be underestimated.This not so distant relative of ours would logically be capable of dreaming . Perhaps without language he or she would not have been able to express what had occurred in the dream; however, making marks on a rock wall could have been the outcome of their considering their dreams, fear and wonderment.
"Caution" can't only apply to the new theories! If we are scientifically cautious, we should also include "caution" about old theories when new evidence arises that doesn't seem to support those old theories well.
It's interesting to watch the process from discovery to reporting evolve in real time. The clash of personalities, principles, and interests. Science is a human endeavor with all that goes with that.
100,000 years ago... A world we barely remember in our dreams and most ancient legends... Told, retold, and distorted over the ages... Lost to time, but not completely forgotten
A world not only of Man. But of Others.
"Hobbits" and "Elves" and "Dwarves" and "Giants" and "Trolls".... (Oh my!)
Not Hollywood fantasy. Real as you or I. Being born. Living. Dying. Same as us.
Humans, but not us. All gone now.
Any indication of tools in the cave system (assume it would be stone) that were used to make these marks?
Yes. One in particular in the hand of a 13 year old child.
love the stipulation that maybe the whole field needs to rethink how they think/name/classify what they're finding. like what does the term human really mean and encompass? we are still in the "this way be dragons" part of the program in many ways :)
Looking forward to this, notification on!🎉
Hope you enjoy!
This is so valuable! What an amazing series of insights!
Thanks! I’m so glad you’re enjoying!
Tak!
Thanks so much!!!
Why, after all these years, was Berger the first one to notice soot on the ceiling of the cave, a large fire pit and some fairly obvious cave markings? My guess, his team gave him time to loose weight and get in there to "make the discovery himself," giving it max. PR. No harm in it really, just saying....
It’s a good question
You have never met a scientist.
@@elan-6418 Whan an ignorant comment.
He has talked about this in interviews. IIRC it was something along the lines of each person having specific tasks, partially being directed by Lee from outside, that required them to focus on looking down and digging, and the main focus apart from this being on everyone getting safely out of the cave every day. Whereas when he entered he knew it was a one-off event so he just wanted to look around and soak up as much as possible, and did not have any specific tasks that he needed to concentrate on. This was his conclusion after asking himself that same question, and the others in the team wondering too, obviously.
@@rdklkje13There is no conceivable reason that not a single one of the excavators would have left the walls and ceiling unexamined. Cave walls and ceilings are examined immediately because of the major safety issues inherent to cave excavation. If nobody looked at the walls or ceiling in the chamber until Berger fortuitously got the chance to go in, that’s perhaps even worse than if he had bottled up that discovery for his own glorification. This whole “they were only looking down” thing is seriously cartoonish.
Super-fascinating. I can't wait to see what the future holds - and what it reveals about the past.
Love the idea of 'markers' and what they show.
It is telling that blurry pictures and hearsay about UFOs gets headlines and viral videos.
But hard data, close up pictures, dated strata and small brain hominids that throw the very concept of what is "a human" into a tailspin, gets almost no promotion.
Solid content
Great job Seth. Good snag getting Genevieve on for an interview.
I wonder if anyone has considered the possibility that the engravings are a representation of a map of some kind.
I know that sounds ridiculous, but doesn't it need to at least be considered?
We actually had talked about that, I believe off camera, that direction signs may have been some of the first purposes of meaning making symbols!
@@worldofpaleoanthropology I an hoping that we soon have graphical representations of all of the created marks.
Something drawn, showing all of the stuff that is on those 3 panels (or more, if they find more).
I would be very interested in viewing such.
In fact, I might even actually donate to a site. Something I have never done for any RUclips site.
Seth, got any plans for this?
I think that you nailed it when you said, "intentionally altered with purpose". Also, it's important that the markings aren't functional. They don't do anything. They may be equivalent to a sign, literally a "marker", but their purpose will likely never be known. But there's no f'n doubt that they're there.
Thank you! Great conversation!
I've been reading Graeber and Wengrow's Dawn of Everything. That has led me to renewing an old interest in this stuff, and hence finding videos like this. Thanks for this. Question for you guys--is there a single recent book I can read to catch up on this stuff? Like Genevieve said, we've developed all these new technologies to throw them at Neandertals. Great. Fascinating. Where is that story, and other important ones to catch me up? I also asked this at the post of Lee's presentation of this like 12 days ago, but I'll ask here too. Were they presumably doing these particular markings in the dark? Isn't that in itself odd? But did they have any lighting? I can't imagine that's what we are talking about here, either. Please help me with my stupid questions!
No stupid questions 😀. Genevieve has a book out herself about ice age art named “First Signs” that talks about alot of the possible meaning of geometric signs and symbols. Lee has a new book coming out in August which is really good. But everything is so new there isn’t really a one for all yet.
We have evidence that naledi used fire 🔥 quite frequently in the cave. So they would have had lighting.
Hope that helps😁
@@worldofpaleoanthropology A friend of mine is an engineering professor, and when a student prefaces a question with "This might be a stupid question but..." he interrupts and says, "There are no stupid questions, there are only stupid people," which doesn't allay the fears of the student at all! Ha. One thing, I never got Genevieve's last name. Might ahve been in the video but missed it and it is not in the description here. Fire, huh? I mean, yeh, this is pre flash lights, so sure, but gosh, seems problematic. I mean, I believe you, just sends the mind reeling. Is there residue left on the ceilings, etc? LOoking forward to learning more. Watched a Q&A vid with Lee, John Hawks and blanking on the 3rd guy's name--long black hair. Good discussion. Will look for more, esp of Genevieve--very passionate about it all, including just the whole deal of science!
I’ll need to fix that, her full name is Genevieve von Petzinger.
Yea there is residue on the ceilings, they have even found hearths.
The real
Question at this point, is, was it naledi? We are waiting on dating results.
Great discussion!
The graphic mark of a signature as this one's name...also put on his wood tools.
Consider a different perspective on the analysis of both the Gorham Cave and Rising Star engravings - ruclips.net/video/vg8onkvWrMw/видео.html
"Art" is a loaded term - why not just say "intentional markings" - descriptive, simple and adequate until we know more.
As we describe in the video, art has a more specific anthropological meaning.
Why would "doodling" not be dramatically significant and intentional?
Moving a stick around with your hand does not require much intention.
These are geometric shapes like triangles, quadrangles, and parallel lines: bases for geometry, engineering, astronomy, architecture, etc. through out known history. Respectfully, I disagree with you most strenuously.
@@monicayriart3016 That would require it being intentional =)
I'd definitely be fascinated by seeing the world's first doodle!
This, to my mind, an equivalent discovery to that of the Tomb of King Tutankhamun.
Feel like this isn't art but something with purpose, such as a marker.
But why engrave rather than paint? Did they not know about paint? Why not a marker with charcoal?
i would also like to add my own spitball reaction to the main image we see. looks very much like a bird in a cage/trap(to me) and could it be a non human cultural representation of their idea of what death seems to be to them. something has flown away from these lifeless bodies of their kin...a bird(life) looking to fly away from the cage/trap (body) it is in
Dear Seth Its a brilliant interview, but could you maybe somehow get a better microphone 🎤? It’s a bit disturbing that the sound is not as good as it could be. ❤
Want to donate one?
\
Just a suggestion 😅. But I’ll donate a cup of coffee! ☕️ 😊
@@worldofpaleoanthropology It was so intriguing, I didn't even notice.
Personally, I find it very questionable when a scientist goes public instead of first submitting to peers. What happens is sensationalism, hyperbole, wishful thinking, and ultimately bad science.
That a developing homonin tribe not want to see a passed member torn up outside the cave by a predator and rather move a body deep inside to avoid the wreak of death may not equate to ritual. Even tossing dirt over a dead body or waste to reduce smell is not necessarily a formal burial. Scratch marks, who knows.. location, family or claim designation? Art, ritual message for the dead, that seems a bit much but maybe one day revealed
The questions is if those things happened, not that they would be important if they did. If these prove true, the implications are large. This is an important find. But it’s proving it true that will be hard.
I'm really pissed of with Lee and his team. I thought burial, art and fire form this species was so cool and just assumed it would not be released if it was not close to passing peer review. Then the reviews came out...
I also put my mark on my tools
Many I know do!
Looks like a tally
Could be!
Too much hype coming from the Berger/Naledi camp. Not convinced about the burial too. There is a difference between a bone dump and a burial. Esp Berger. She is really really walking back their orginal claims.
As one should, their claims need to be tempered.
Looks like advanced mathapematics.
Get rid of the crinoid fossile both positive (minerals) and negative (a void) we already know from the amount of bones the cave system is highly minerilized i have many rocks that i found out were mineralized organics that have very similar markings
Firelight? Can you say co2 poisoning? and show the vast wood pile.couldnt drag branchs down tiny openings how about food stores let alone post digestion leavings if cave dwellers nocturnal would make sense and food plants and fruits without farming did they moue the cave?
That cave, as has been explained many times, has adequate wire flow to permit fires. If they could get a body down there, anything else would be easy I’d think.
Change that icon picture. That represents animals and humans and naledi didn't produce those. It's misinformation and clickbait fraud. You know it too.
Fraud? 🤣 bless your heart
Sorry, But Genevieve who? Doth she have like a lastname? 😊
Genevieve von Petzinger
@@hareksu
She's very good.
Here in Ireland she might have been named "Genebhíbh Ní Gruaige."
Too much hand talking....makes me crazy to watch.
Cool story bro