What do we owe the children? Mixed feelings on child entertainers | Khadija Mbowe
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- Опубликовано: 10 апр 2024
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I would maybe reconsider recommending Fum just yet. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9041544/
I recommend clicking this link, the scents that they have smell really good
my code does not apply to anything on the site, is it still valid? great video anyways love you
Imagine if we were as angry with the treatment of children in the foster system as we are with the treatment of rich and famous children. I know Shirley Temple deserved a safer happier childhood but imagine if we fought for the rights of ALL children to have safer and happier childhoods, not just the rich and famous ones.
And it works for adults too, but to a lesser extent, since adults theoretically have some possibilities to protect themselves. What I mean is in the movie industry involved many adults in smaller invisible places. Starting with various assistants, finishing with a deliberate outsourcing from countries where unions don't work properly. And here involved quite a lot of exploitation, harassment, SA, still we don't notice it. An ex-star has at least a voice
@@Nice_Treeyes, all life is equal and the most vulnerable need equal concern and action to protect them. Poverty and youth create a special kind of vulnerability.
Shout it louder!! Heck yes! 💯
I say replace child actors with puppets, even in dramas. I WANT PUPPETS.
this will revolutionize entertainment
Well, why not?
Reimagining Boyhood with muppets
Been saying this for years! The people want *puppets*
I love this 😂
i think kids would benefit so much if we adults stop thinking about them only in terms of “who are they going to be when they grow up” but also “who are they NOW”. like what are their thoughts, opinions and desires right now. even if they don’t have the perspective that more years would give them, their perspective still matters!! even if they change their mind eventually, it still means the world to a kid’s sense of self-worth if you show that you’re willing to listen and that you don’t underestimate them
For real. I hate this tendency to not take children’s feelings and opinions seriously or treat them like frivolous. It drives me up the wall. The saddest part is that usually the only people who listen to what kids have to say are predators cause they have ulterior motives…
“Children should not be on TV. They should be referred to offscreen” - Katya
HAHAHAHAHA
I was literally just about to say that!
katya, our lord and saviour. 🙏
@@thedragonsunicorn I was so sad to hear on IG the other day that she's going back to rehab
@@BooksRebound i know. bless her! but she's fought through twice. she'll do it again!
*Common motif is those parents is that they see their kids as an "investment". If you cannot handle the fact that your kid can turn 18 and want nothing to do with you, it is not your calling to be a parent. Macauly Culkin's story is what comes to mind, his poor excuse for a "father" is why he fell into narcotics and why his recovery is so beautiful.*
I really hope Macaulay Culkin is coming back as an actor if he is happy with this
Coogan accounts should be like 65% *at the very least*
I’m sorry what are u trying to say? I’m specifically talking about the portion where u state a parent should handle the “fact” that your kid can turn 18 and want nothing do with u or your calling is not to be a parent. That makes no sense to me. As a parent the GOAL is to raise a child that can be hisself but also wants to be in your life that doesn’t mean he/she can’t have his own life, if a child grows up and wants NOTHING to do with u you’ve done something wrong as a parent.
@@zsazsa4159 Literally yes if they want nothing to do with you then you DID fuck up, whether you were abusive or treated them like an object with no sentience instead of their own personhood with opinions and feelings, also another way I interpreted this was as they are NOT an investment in the sense that you are not raising employees. You should not expect your children to pay you, to "work" for you (clearly chores not included but I know some parents disagree on what constitutes a chore vs child labor) and you shouldn't be so demanding of another human being especially after they are an adult. If you raised them correctly it shouldn't matter but if not they will likely go no contact
i think Drew Barrymore also became estranged from her mother. i think i remember reading she because emancipated before she was 18.
If kids want to act, they absolutely should. In community or school plays.
I remember hearing in like a making of interview where the director of like the first two Harry Potter movies was talking about how he wanted to make sure that the children he hired for the roles would still end up well adjusted adults
So the audition process for the first movie was more about auditioning Daniel’s, Emma’s, and Rupert’s parents than the kids because he wanted to weed out all the crazy stage parents because he felt guilty about what happened with Macaulay Culkin after he stared in Home Alone
The UK also has much stricter child labor laws for film than the US. With the exception of the main 3, the other kids in the HP films went to regular schools and had regular lives, only working maybe every other week.
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Omg when you say "people pretending to care but are just there for the mess" (I'm paraphrasing)
THIS IS SO TRUE FOR PEOPLE SUFFERING FROM ADDICTION. I've heard so many people gossip about people suffering from addiction because they "care" but all they want to do is talk drama and judge.
"Omg I'm so worried about x person even though I haven't seen them in 15 years and we were never even really true friends, I should call the police on them and talk about it publicly on social media to make sure they're ok! I should also tell every mutual friend about their personal business that I heard through the grapevine! Because I care! I think junkies are disgusting but I care!"
I feel that, with a lot of drama/tea channels.
Ooooh wow this just hit me so hard. I recently left a friend group because some random guy got mad that I wouldn't send him nudes, so he DMed one of my friends and told them I was going to commit sewerslide and they should do a wellness check on me. Did my friends contact me directly to make sure I was okay? Of course not!! They just took it to the group chat and started speculating about my mental health and planned to come by my house unannounced, and treated me like the asshole when I saw the thread and was like "What the fuck, guys I'm fine why did none of you DM me first?"
All they had to do was DM me if they actually cared about making sure I was safe. But they treated it like some messy gossip and it changed the way I saw them. Some people only care about you when they can shit on you to feel better about themselves.
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We should also hold the companies accountable. Capatilism is such an exploitative system. It truly hurts everybody, even kids.
I definitely think child actors should not be a thing anymore. the YOUNGEST should be maybe 16 years old, bc there just aren’t enough checks and balances in place to keep them safe. Plus it seems like the parents don’t gaf anyways so we can’t even trust the parents to keep THIER OWN KIDS safe!!!
But then my question is what will they do instead of using kids and children in media
Regarding the first part of your comment, child actors shouldn't be a thing, I half disagree with it, I think they should exist but in a reduced way, what I mean by it is that children shouldn't be involved in long-term projects or have consecutive works lining up one right after the other. It should be a couple of scenes in a movie once a year, that can be filmed in one week during vacation time. Childhood shouldn't be disrupted but I don't think children should stop existing altogether in media.
I like your idea of working with 16 yrs old and up, but still with restrictions on the workload. Teenagehood shouldn't be disrupted either. Those are formative years.
Regarding the parents, I don't know, there are so many people out there that don't deserve to have children. Fame and money are just enablers for bad parents to become shittier. That's why restrictions on time and when could prevent a bad parent from taking advantage of the power they have over their children.
TeaNoir has a video, where she speaks about childhood and she says that society doesn't like children and after listening to documentaries like Quiet On Set, it only further confirms it.
I think most media targeted toward children should be animated.
When are people going to stop being surprised when people do terrible things in the name of money? That’s capitalism baby. Profits over people.
I personally think that it goes hand in hand with general worker exploitation and bad power dynamics which happens even with adult actors a lot. We don't need to get rid off child actors entirely because children and teenagers need to see themselves into characters and feel represented (for example Lucy from chronicles of narnia was the character for me in my pre-teens to relate with and i don't think it would work if she was an adult in first movie). What we DO need is more regulated and safe labour laws for adults end EVEN MORE regulated and safe labour laws for children in entertaiment industry. Child shouldn't spend 17 hours on set with random adults and amount of both media and working hours SHOULD be reducet as much as it could.
A lot of people tend to reffer to animated media but even this one isn't completely safe from SA and exploitation. Capitalism sucks and sadly all trauma and bad things happen to child actors are direct causation of power structure.
I think one thing to point out is that it's not just that it's detrimental for kids, the entertainment industry is exploitative and unsafe FOR ADULTS. Of course its worse for kids with less autonomy, hindsight, and choices. Like I also support youth liberation but I think we need to change the industry... We don't even take care of adult celebrities imo :/
Agreed, the industry gives way for mistreatment in so many ways and sets individuals with bad intentions up for success. I feel as though the unique power dynamics that we see in Hollywood set it apart from other works environments in so many ways and we should work towards more regulation and accountability to improve the conditions for individuals of every age (especially children) in the entertainment industry. As well as take a good hard look at our perception of celebrities and people in general and the industrial complex of gossip.
@@TheMatrix-rj8rx So true. I obviously think there is obv overlap in a lot of areas with other industries, especially service work, bc of capitalism and lack of workers rights and protections (and general harboring/ignoring of sexual preds, which is the case everywhere) but the entertainment industry is unique in a lot of aspects because of the possibility of fame (and soo much money!) is such a huge motivator and the intense scrutiny fame and success actually bring. Unfortunately I think many industries reward bad behavior and protect abusive bosses, we just see the Hollywood stories about it bc it's more high profile. I agree with you, esp since Hollywood truly does get away with some crazy kid labor stuff, I just think we need across the board job reform to help protect kids (and everyone) in dangerous & low (and high) profile jobs.
So storytime: I was almost a child actor.
I was about 10 years old at the time and had auditioned for this documentary being planned on kids with food allergies. I made it to the 2nd to last casting call, and ultimately wasn't chosen but the agency running the casting calls immediately wanted me to sign with them for acting, modeling, etc. Up until this point, my *dream* was to be an actress and singer. I would perform all around the house, took ballet classes for 8 years at that point, etc.
My mom said "no." Specifically, she said not until I graduated high school and then I could make the educated decision to become a model, actress, singer, etc. I remember being so pissed at her at the time because she was "keeping me from my dream." Now that I am much older, I am so beyond grateful my mom told me no. The amount of abuse she protected me from while still showing she would be supportive of me if as an adult I decided to become an actress-- I didn't realize how grateful I should've been. Now I want nothing to do with fame, modeling, etc. and I am forever in debt to my mom who protected 10 year old me.
I became a model at 12 after being scouted in the street. My mother didn't want to keep me from opportunities but was very persistent about it not interferring with my schooling. She said no to at least two agencies who wanted to fly me out and have me stay in New York City and Paris, at like 14. I didn't resent her for it because I was raised to prioritise intellectual pursuits (not in a pretentious way, promise, looks and celebrity culture just never were the focus of any of the conversations in my family) and I didn't like doing the modeling, for a variety of reasons, but didn't quit till I was 16 not because my mum pressured me, because she noticed I wasn't into it but wanted me to decide for myself if I wanted to quit, but because I felt ungrateful for not liking my once in a lifetime opportunity and guilty for passing on something that so many other girls (in my school) would do anything for.
It's a fucked industry and I thank my parents for raising me in a way that left me resilient against the crazy ways that people treated the models. I am happy to report I was never harmed or mentally or physically damaged in any way and I can look back at the time without regrets.
In hindsight my parents made some mistakes, but they did the best they knew and I knew I could count on undeniable support, inexplicably. Pressure never came from them.
The people saying "Where were the parents?!" are leaving out that parents of child actors are gaslit by the industry when they speak up (Drake Bell's dad) or their child faces direct retaliation/firing if they speak up (Alexa Nikolas, Bryan Hearne).
I feel like people have kids bc they’re told to without realizing they have to prepare them for the real world.
Many industries caste young adults to play teens due to this issue, but people complained about that too. There definitely needs to be more and better protection for child actors.
And it's lead to another problem: often young adults playing kids are used for explicitly portraying kids involved in sexual relationships, instead of realistically looking kids. I don't say that media should avoid any mention of teenagers having sex, but there's a difference where this is made purely for an entertaining
new vocab: gerontocracy 🧐✍🏽
I've maintained for most of my adult life (I'm almost 38 now), that children should not be in show business. You just have to look at the horrific treatment and sexualization of Shirley Temple. The Male Gaze is what it is, and often it's interested in domination and control. Children shouldn't be put in arenas with the most cut throat, egotistical men on the planet, especially when that much money is quite literally being thrown around.
I'm child free by choice as well. What you were saying about adults forgetting what its like to be a teenager really hits home, because I see people I know being really dismissive and frustrated with their teenagers in front of me and it hurts because I'm seeing that cycle continue. I can't say I would be any better, but having the outside perspective is an awkward place to be.
I’ve seen a couple people mentioning Alyson Stoner, but did anyone else watch some of Christy Carlson Romano’s nuanced vlogs about her experience/observations as a child actor? She posted a bunch of them on YT two years ago. (You have to scroll pretty far to find them now, but the thumbnails have blurred nature photos in the background.) She didn’t trash talk anyone, despite the click-bait titles, which was refreshing. One of her points that stuck with me is how parents being their child’s manager upends the parent-child dynamic, because the parent essentially becomes their child’s employee. That blew my mind, because having your parent as a manager is usually framed as a positive.
Personally, I don’t see a way to stop employing child actors if we want to continue making live action media for a younger audience. The root of the problem is late-stage capitalism. Without that influence, there wouldn’t be an incentive to exploit children for profit.
I very much agree on that last point from experience. I did act as a kid (but that was in Berlin a few years after the Wall fell), and it was actually a great experience. The whole crew were "leftovers" from DEFA times who actually just wanted to make some nice kids' TV, I wasn't overworked, I was spoken to nicely and not asked for anything I wasn't prepared to do. And I got to see a studio from the inside and badger diverse crew about their jobs, it was just a cool adventure. And I'm still involved with filmmaking, sort of.
Idk if this was mentioned but for anyone interested in understanding this subject more, Alison Stoner did a great series breaking down the realities of child actors lives on her YT. Very insightful!
It was such a great series! And I believe she was even involved in one of the laws that recently passed.
I couldn’t even finish it bc it was so intense and I needed a mental break. What it shows is how systemic these abusers of power are in the industry. It also seems to me that the ones who grow older and better adjusted really are just lucky: they had a safety net AND didn’t have someone target them specifically (or someone tried but were not successful). In either case, it seems to be the exception. With everything these kids go through, it seems like everything in their lives is designed to take advantage of them… and too many of those times you will find an adult waiting to take that opportunity.
I still think it is important for kids to see images of themselves represented in media… I’m just at a loss for how to do that without harming the actual kids being filmed. It is starting to feel impossible to protect kids in any environment where they are filmed (specifically thinking of influencer kids and family channel content here)
this is why animated media is superior
EXACTLY
They use kids to voice characters sometimes too
@@Shay45 it’s really different though, I used to go to Uni with the original voice of Peppa Pig, she was able the live in anonymity because no one knew what she looked like.
@@Shay45 I know the kids who voicd in bluey aren't in the credits and are protected.
@@Shay45 In anime they often use adults to voice the kids! And it’s not even noticeable after a while. So maybe they should do that
did aunty get a new cam? the quality is eating today.
Mara Wilson's experiences are really interesting because she explains that bad experiences can come from the press or 'fans' too. She had a loving mother and her parents didn't expect her to go into acting - she said they made a scrapbook of her time on Mrs doubtfire because they thought it was just a one off experience where she had an amazing time. And for her, her mother who sadly died when she was young so protective so maybe that's what saved her - because she said even though nothing happened to her, she saw adults sexually harassing others. So even when the kids are protected by parents, kids can still have bad experiences from other people and things, like creepy or mean fans and gross journalists asking or writing inappropriate things
12:09 I’m right here in the video and kinda of want to put my input because I think I have a unique experience in regards to this. I was raised in a family that believes in giving kids autonomy. My parents rarely if ever used spankings and such as punishment. They’re also really huge on talking things out with us and making sure we’re on the same page. My parents almost never referred to us as “their kids” but almost always as “little people.” My mom said she did this as a constant reminder to herself that we are little complex humans trying to figure out the world too. My mom also has a really great philosophy about parenthood that it’s more about being a mentor than it is about telling your child who to be. So she surrounded me with people of different backgrounds and cultures at all times because she said she “didn’t know where life would take me. She didn’t know what or who I may need in the future. But she know she couldn’t be my everything.” My parents spent a lot of time answering my hypothetical questions about the world or even took time to admit when they didn’t know an answer. Sometimes they even made it a “family activity” for us to find the answers together. Not to mention once I hit middle school my mom started to include me talks about what’s going on in the economy and what adulthood was really like so that I reminded curious about things but informed.
I think if more people paused to realize that kids are just as emotionally complex as them with a fraction of the information about the world around them, they would be more inclined to give them autonomy. I think if we remind people of how scary it must be to navigate the world with no control over your environment and who has access to you, then maybe they’ll see that kids are just little humans trying to figure it out. And they we need to protect and talk to them more than we give them orders and “think we know what’s best.”
I think the key very much is in treating kids as people and including them in conversations/taking their contribution seriously. They are children, not adults, but people still. My parents really conversed with me as a child, proper conversations about the matters of the universe etc, racism, economy, justice. It's not like they were broaching the subject to me but they let me in on their conversations, challenged me on ideas and let me disagree with them on matters.
It was formative in my upbringing.
Man, "Quiet On Set" for was a hard watch.
1.) Love the new set up, so pleasing to the eyes, along with the very attractive (respectfully ofc) host
2.) I completely get where you're coming from with the balance between a child's autonomy and a parent's rules. I remember when I was younger I would watch toddlers in tiaras with my mom and younger brother and it honestly really made me want to go into pageantry, when I told my mom about it she was like "absolutely the fuck not," she was very against the notion of adultifying children and she even took me out of ballet when I was younger because she didn't like that they were trying put makeup on me (when I was a toddler). I definitely go back and forth with how I feel about my mom not letting me explore things like makeup or dressing up, but I am so thankful she barred me from pageants bc I would have even lower self esteem than I do now. I think it's essential for children to explore different hobbies and interests, but as soon as those interests are monetized or are displayed to a larger audience, the safety in those passions dwindles because what started out as freedom of self-expression and exploration is now being dictated by another person, and an adult for that matter.
No one is ever ready to consent to what fame does to one's life, let alone children, ffs
Child actors have had it rough for longer than any of us have been alive. It doesn't even help to be the kid these companies want to make a thing. Disney had a kid they wanted to be a thing, made him a star in Song of the South and Peter Pan and that kid died young in a paupers grave with nobody knowing what happened to him.
quintonreviews recently did a video on the topic and he worded so many of my feelings on it as a whole. not shedding tears for dan schneider AT ALL and he absolutely is an asshole, but the way so many ppl want him to be worse than he actually is and blaming him for ALL of the absolute garbage treatment towards kids in the industry makes me legit uncomfortable. i also wish the doc touched on how this issue is more systemic than anything bc all it did is let the nickelodeon execs as well as the disney ones that were ok with hiring bp after he got convicted off the hook. that and all the speculation around amanda bynes is so so gross! leave her alone!
Yesss agreed with everything that you said! Dan Schneider is disgusting, but he’s not the only one. It’s important for people to do their research and learn about how abusive the entertainment industry really it. Does not start and end with Dan.
@@shizzlemywizzle1 yeah! ren and stimpy was airing for a few years by the time dan got hired and we ALLLLL know what kind of person john k was. (yes, i'm aware he got fired after s2 but viacom still hired him back for that reboot fully aware of what he was truly like lol) this isn't an issue that begins and ends with dan.
I don't know that people wanting Dan "to be worse than he actually is." He's rumored to have impregnated two underage stars on his show, one of them being Amanda Bynes. (She herself tweeted about this a long time ago when she said she'd had an abortion at 13 and implied that Dan was the father.) Not sure how much worse it could get. And it's not about blaming him for ALL the garbage treatment kids get in the industry, but examining his role in it was crucial because he had a hand in so MANY kid's shows. And he employed at least 2 other pedophiles and made the shows themselves exploitative as the lead writer. He was more than just an asshole. But yes, I'd be interested to see follow-up documentaries about the industry as a whole and how higher-ups ignored, participated in, or encouraged abuses for profit. I mean, how BP ever got hired again on anything having to do with kids is beyond me.
@@cv8499 i mean, the stuff about him impregnating two stars still remains blind items that never got confirmed. i'm only talking about what actually HAS been confirmed with sources backing them up.
@@cv8499 rumours about Dan impregnating two child stars do not have any actual proofs and Amanda has a large story of being extremely mentally unwell and accusing a lot of different people in her life but then taking it back. Not saying she couldn't possibly experience SA at all, but people should stay critical and stop using p*dophilia accusations easily.
Dan Schnaider is an abuser who exploited labour of his child stars, not a rаpist true crime people want him to be.
Finalllly! omg, i have been telling people it's insane what we do to kids since the Diff'rent Strokes kids' stories came out. Generally, people seem to think "well how else are we going to get movies and tv?" is a good enough argument for child abuse. Thanks, as always.
something i think ends up being missed a lot is the sort of special protection or safety we claim is owed to children and then almost always fail to provide is something i think we ought afford to everyone not just children. i think a lot of our failings stem from this arbitrary division of when someone is allowed to be certain levels of safe
just started the video and don't have time to finish it rn but before ago I wanted to suggest, Alyson stoner's podcast on how unethical and abusive the child entertainment industry is highly recommend!
a few people have been recommending this!! thank you 💕
Khadija giiiirlllllll not only are you dropping knowledge but you’re hair and outfit are on point!
aww thanks boo
Gurl that ad read was insane lmao. It was giving Some More News and their ad reads when Cody is making it clear he doesnt believe in the product and your shouldnt buy it.
Love it, wish they were always like that.
1. Love the background
2. Thanks for the Fum discount - ordered!
3. Thanks for the video. Always thinking about this topic. Currently reading “I’m glad my mom died”
For me, it's the being a 'star' that is the problem. What you said about the 'net' would allow for creativity and exploration at any age. I mean the notion of being a 'star' or 'famous' at any age is a toxic goal, despite the joys I and others have had brought to us by the sheer brilliance of those we've seen successful in the entertainment industry. I spent a good deal of my life pursuing the goal of stardom. Now, I'm 60, fat and inconsequential, but not unhappy I didn't reach that goal. Some of what you're saying here reminds me of the notion of 'breaking the cycle'. The best you can do, if you yourself has been exploited, is, if you do end up having kids (I have one daughter, coming on 30 years' old) to do the best you can to create that 'net' you speak of. It's really hard. I couldn't have done it without my two sisters, a brother, and some good friends. And I was one of those kids harmed and harming, but I knew I had to literally revolutionise my perspective in order to not have my own child harmed. The thing you say about the instinctive response to bullys of your own kids - I feel that too, but, with my own daughter, and now five year old grand-daughter, I also instinctively came to know that that is not the way to resolve any such issue. In fact, as much as I wanna berate the bully, I think of their 'net', their problems, and that of their parents too! Don't get me wrong, because, having been a long time follower of yours, I know you do too. Fundamentally, I think it's about how we break cycles of abuse and exploitation by materially actualising any child's desire for autonomy and independence whilst reminding them of what it is, and us doing the thing necessary, to keep safe. Thanks for this lovely and thoughtful question. I am quite moved by your attachment to it. Loves xxx :) ps, also, obviously, every thing I've said here is what I learned from said daughter, Abigail; and am currently learning still from granddaughter, Bonnie. x
Child actors are not the issue the creepy grown adults who think it’s okay to abuse and have relations with literal kids are the issue. What is wrong with some people? How do you look at a child and immediately sexualize them 😟
Sexualisation of these kids is absolutely an issue, and so is the financial abuse they suffer - even the kids who aren't sexualised at all can still be forced into being the breadwinner for their family, and so are put into a position where they're not allowed to turn down work for fear of their family losing everything
I think that a possible way to keep children out of entertainment while also having role models for children is by just having any content with kids characters being animated (or puppet, or anything outside of having actual children there), and have adults play them, it works perfectly fine and keeps kids away from possibly dangerous situations
This is a very difficult subject. I do think there should be more protection, but it is hard to say how we can protect all children in different situations
I've been gifted with nieces/cousins/adopted-niblings recently (family friends, kids & I have been hanging out heaps), and just by being around them I'm reparenting myself. I remember interacting with nasty, critical adults at their young age... being the grown up I wished I'd had around is healing.
katya said "just refer to them(kids) offscreen" and i couldn't agree more.
ya my god the internet era has made it so loud and clear just how much of a boon it is to have the ability to leave one's developmental years in the past. most people are not doing their best from 0 - 20. and. it's so nice to not have it haunting your forever more!!
background is slaying
We’re about to enter a AI age where we’ll be using children a lot less and I don’t think that’s a solution.
I think I'm at a similar point of ambivalence vis a vis child stars, but I also think I worry that this topic is one where the fact we live in an adult-centric culture, means that 'common sense' leads us back to adult centric conclusions over and over again.
In this video for example, you often link the notion of kids being autonymous beings with the idea that they are going to 'grow up to be there own person' and 'that's going to have their own ideas'. Rather than the actual issue, that kids are their own person now and have their own ideas, now. Similarly, the focus on whether children are too young to understand the implications of fame or handle it, sort of assumes that adults can, which I don't think is fair or true. Adult power just means that adults failing to manage their fame looks like them hurting people more often than it looks like them being hurt (though, this also happens).
I really think we need to stop treating children as if they're a separate conversation. Insofar as fame industries are potentially abusive, they're abusive to all people working in them without power, including children. Insofar as people deserve the ability to access space, and have their voice be heard, children deserve this too. I think it was the book 'From Children's Services to Children's Spaces' which made the argument that 'there is no adequate account of human rights that does not consider children'.
I think these worries about childhood fame are really valid, but I wish we could step away from having these in terms that present children as uniquely lacking, or as potential people. Which is really just a theoretical consideration of adult power uniting knowledge and being with adults and 'innocence' (read ignorance) and becoming with children. We need to realise that many adults are also disempowered and need protection, and many children are competent social agents within various social frameworks (not so much within world-wide networks, but this is a feature of the massively consolidated nature of power in that network rather than an essential truth of childhood). I think we need to put our focus into realising the flaws of the fame industry, and working out how to change it to make it safer for everyone. Because the exclusive protectionism pressed towards children often results in laws, policies and practices which disenfranchise and disempower children further, by blocking them from access to spaces or knowledge, and this is in itself a massive driver of abuse and adult-power.
I think this is demonstrated by the fact a lot of the comments are discussing the potential of removing children from show business, rather than considering whether the abusive practices in show business and our consumption/production of media might be inherently violently anti-worker and in need of change across all levels (until there are robust ways for people without power in the system to report abuse and see it changed).
Hopefully that makes sense. Child politics is kind of my passion (I'm trying to get an essay published at the moment about the flaws in our common sense understanding of 'development' and the way that this often ends up serving as a way to use sciency sounding language to cover up for incoherent, essentialising narratives about children) so these sort of videos bring my theory brain out in force.
I'm really glad people are covering it though and talking about it. I'm hopeful that with the right pressure in the right direction, we can eventually get people to take children seriously as the socially complex, politically embedded and congiently marginalised group they always have been. And hopefully this will look less like a sort of 'teenboss' activism, and more like actual systemic change.
i always find it difficult to properly articulate some of the gripes i have with how we have these conversations regarding kids, safety and agency, and you put my thoughts into words so perfectly, thank you! i agree that the usual discourse ends up reinforcing the idea that kids are innately incapable/underdeveloped, and adults by comparison are the apex of capability/fully developed, and neglects the reality that a lot of adults also need the same protections and guidance that we want kids to have. regarding conversations about kids in entertainment specifically, for instance, the mentality individualizes the harms children experience at the expense of considering how people in power and the larger systems they create play a role. (a lot of kids' safety conversations, in general, tend to neglect how systems like racism, sexism and classism influence children's vulnerability to abuse.)
i don't have much to add here, your response said nearly everything i was already thinking. thank you for helping me solidify my thoughts a little! (also i'd love the chance to read your essay if it ever gets published)
Growing up, watching child stars thrive was an aspiration and even after all this time, very few things have changed.
I'm an anarchist, and I am the parent of a nearly 23-year-old young person. A lot of the stuff that you speak about when you talk about youth liberation, it's very much the way that we raised my son, without ever having the words at the time to describe exactly what it is we were doing. I hadn't yet come into a lot of reading on these concepts back then, as I was still in my early twenties, myself at the time, and most of these concepts really didn't find a broader audience in the zeitgeist until recent years. As a result, materials in relation to this topic were not very easy to find.
My goal with raising my son was to raise him to become a critical thinker who not only was comfortable making his own decisions, but would be making them from an empathetic, informed, and nuanced perspective. He still growing and learning, as are we all, and he, like many other people in his generation, often finds himself struggling against and having difficulty emotionally coping with the late stage capitalist hellscape that we've all managed to find ourselves in. The path forward for my son and the rest of his generation - hell, the rest of all of us, really - isn't going to be an easy one. But I am happy to say that, by and large, the liberation ideals under which I erased my son have been successful so far, at least by my estimation of success. Does he have hard times? Yes, Of course he does. However, the resiliency that he has developed and the support network that he has surrounding him are continually here to help guide him and aid him when he needs. He has his struggles ahead, but he has the tools and the community necessary to hopefully make the path that he has said ahead of him a little easier to walk. I keep hoping for a more empathetic and collectivist future, and I truly do believe that if more of those of us who choose to have children, who can have children, raise them with these ideals in mind, we can actually have a fighting chance to slow down and perhaps start on doing the worst of the things that we've done to this planet.
We got animatronics, Ai, puppets/dolls…. We got options!!!
4:17 Little Rascals comes to mind, too...
doing the worlds work. THANK YOU KHADIJA 🙌
great video as always, just wanted to say that i love the new set up!
Oooh I am LIVING for this couch setup!! Love the artwork and color palette ❤
I had a relative tha was confused why Jennette Mcurdy wouldn't come back for icarly she was like "she could just go to therapy and do the show for the money" I was flabbergasted. People say things like just so they can watch a tv show or just don't understand not doing something even though there's money involved.
Yes, grateful for uour reflections on youth liberation, ideas for a supportive childhood and thst wr can take what resonates with us from different spaces. Much to think about 💗
i enjoy your vids so much, your onscreen personality is wonderful
Sorry I'm late! Just wanted to pop in and say how much I appreciate your views and videos! Also LOVE that brick wall!! 😍
Wonderful discussion not only about how we should guide children’s passions and curiosities with safety in an often dangerous industry, but also a great discussion about parenting in general and how it can be a good thing when done with compassion. From a developmental psychology standpoint, I will say that the term authoritative parent is used to describe the healthy level of protection and teaching that parents can have while authoritarian is more used for parents who can be controlling, overbearing, and who shut down communication/ conversation. 16:05 🧡 thank you!
We really need better child labor laws. Children can make their own decisions and should have much more agency than they have now (like do you remember being 4? I remember being 4 and I had a Strong sense of right & wrong, I just had trouble articulating it bc nobody took the time to properly listen to me) and if they want to act they should be able to act, but we need strict laws about how much the media is allowed to interact/interview them and how the industry treats them. More child actors should be like the kid from the shining: did one movie, had a good time, and then just left the industry and has a normal job now where people don't recognize him. The right to be forgotten should also and ESPECIALLY apply to the babies!
I side note I like that you’re putting definitions in the videos now because I have to often pause to look stuff up lol
Whenever these conversations come up (as they should), I always end up thinking about Jonathan Taylor Thomas. He was a massively popular kid star who was able to completely withdraw from public life. I always hope that that is a sign he had a strong support network and was surrounded by adults who took him and his wants seriously. And I hate how he seems to be the exception, not the rule. Wherever he is now, I hope he's having a good life!
I love the visual of the net. I am child-free by choice but I love being part of the village raising several children.
Wow my therapist and just talk about this on Thursday.. like the role of a parent is to bring their child to independance, but there's step to it. so at the beginnig we depend completely on our parents to survive, then it gets to a do as tell you because I know better.. but then gradually you should become more and more independant.. and the role of a parent is to provide a safe space and educate the child to have all the tools and be ready to be an adult... Anyways, I love how your video's subjects always tie in with reflections I have or some thought process 🎀
I used to be upset that my parents didn’t try to support me more when I was a kid and wanted to get into acting. Now, I’m just so glad they didn’t because who knows what could’ve happened. Kids deserved better then and they deserve better now.
I've had the opposite experience of how I think about younger people as I've grown older- being further removed from that age hasn't made me forget what it was like and lose respect, I've instead forgiven my peers from that time for trauma they inflicted because I realize their brains were still forming back then, too, just like mine. Therefore I now have more empathy for teens and young adults because I understand that everyone has it hard at that age, because that's too young to start really understanding and undoing whatever ways one's parents messed them up. (I still find it difficult to have friends under 30 though because I find interacting with them in person insufferable, but I'll cheer them on from a distance, lol)
The entertainment industry is the only industry where children under 16 are legally allowed to work. I feel because it’s viewed as a privilege people forget it’s still work. I don’t think any child should be working let alone be responsible for their families income.
I’m a firm believer that any child actor on set NEEDS TO HAVE a third party advocate on set with them. In a similar way to how intimacy coordinators are important, having someone there to listen to and communicate the child’s best interests and boundaries is extremely important. I’m not talking about a parent or an agent, I’m saying someone who is not being directly funded by the child’s work should be there. I really believe that if we had this as a common practice, their work environments would be so much safer.
Ohhh here we are!!! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
@11:11 in my experience, its helpful to rememeber that, though you dont remember much from your childhood anymore, this child will grownup to be an adult one day so they should know what type of treatment they should accept from people.
Fine isn't good enough! 🙌🏼
You look absolutely gorgeous 😮💨❤️
Great video!
Ooo so happy to see you like Fum. I have been wanting to try it.
In 2024 and kids have no rights. Those laws should have been for decades.
Im so w you on the idea that kids shouldn't be banned from doing what they want, they just need to be able to do it safely! Knee-jerk reaction is definitely how I felt initially
I'm not a "child star" but I didn't really feel like, with the exception of my dad sometimes (who was kind of like a richard williams) I was really protected from the creepiness of fame?
Like everyone says that the media or XYZ celebrity isn't responsible for your kids, their parents are, but not all parents are responsible, so that kind of sucks that some kids are on their own in terms of being defended or have someone to advocate for them.
So, when they're out there lashing out INTO Adulthood because of things that are slowly leaving my childhood, you feel extra crazy because who is going to believe a kid? And then you become an adult and it's like, who's going to believe this adult thats acting up at every single provocation. It feels very sinister, there are no safety nets, no 24-hour mental healthcare, when you're poor yet famous & folks you don't even know are waiting for you to "come up" like trauma didn't even happen.
I could fix the grammar on this but I don't really want to atm lol
khadija your hair is amazing looking in this one ahhh
Oh thank you!
The motto I have with my partner that encapsulates our relationship is "endless care, infinite space". I hope we'll be able to provide that for our children as well.
How long till better help steals this look? Set looks incredible!
ok but that was the best sponsor shoutout lol
Ahhhh the sponsor is that thing Jacob had on Abbot Elementary!! 😂
the ART 🗣️😮💨🤩
Thank you for sharing
Thanks for watching
13:45 agree and i wanna add a small bit about instead of independence alone, modelling and guiding how to build healthy interdependence (esp for us disabled & for elderly folx) esp as a kid of immigrants there was a mix of healthy interdependence, unhealthy enmeshment, and toxic versions of individualism (which ends up winning out most commonly in the way it works to live here)
16:10 🤓 authoritative is the parenting style you described that was ideal, and u were referring to authoritarian parenting here.
Was just thinking about getting an e-cigarette but fume sounds wayyy better. Thanks Khadija ❤
it honestly feels so minty like idk how to describe it better than that, minty fresh air LOL
I think some of this problem is just the problem of Celebrity. Like, okay. Being Famous destroys the lives of adults because in our society, being artistically famous basically means that your whole life is up for public scrutiny, not just your art. Of course children barely stand a chance. But if actors and performers could just, clock in, do their work, and then clock out and go home and get the same level of basic human decency that like, a “famous” scientist gets we wouldn’t have such disastrous consequences for these children as we currently see. I also don’t think children should be the breadwinners - or even be involved in paid labor at all - but if they are, it should be the social equivalent of clocking into your job at Macy’s. The fact we assume that actors and musicians are special and need to be Celebritized - ie, their entire lives exploited for entertainment - instead of just. People doing a job who yes, may become well known because they are good at it, but then ultimately get to go home and live their private lives in privacy after. No one is trying to get paparazzi-style images of or relentlessly stalking the woman who invented mRNA vaccinations, so why do we assume that is a natural part of being famous for other reasons. Yes parasocial relationships exist and are a natural part of us, but that doesn’t mean we need to see everything our favorite singer does in their daily life. We certainly don’t need to invade the lives of children who are possibly just exploring a passion they have.
important topic, thanks for adressing. especially today with youtube where young children are already in public, we should think about boundries and rights. I think we loose nothing when we don't see private lifes of minors.
If my parents would've filmed me when I was little and now everyone knows me, I would be scared and real angry.
choices are made for children and I think that is not ok in this case. They don't need to be our entertainment.
Makes me think of all the Our Gang (lil rascals) actors that ended up dying young or in some horrible fashion. Chubsy Ubsy’s story is so sad, had some botched 1930’s weight loss treatment and lost over half his weight and died in his early 20s.
I really think that all childrens stories should be animated.
being a trans man, and the main supporter of my youngest sibling is very hard when were out in pubic now. very harsh and hard stares constantly-- its a whole other layer to process and feel and work through- but were here and doing it.
Okay this FUM add might have actually got me
I feel like I shouldn't post this but if you're trying to wean yourself off of something, another really good product is the Kitchen safe - it's a timed lock box. I've weaned myself off a lot of Dr**s with it successfully. They're stupidly expensive and easy to break, I wish a dupe would come out already.
But yeah, really good product if you're trying to get away from bad habits/wean yourself off something. Idk if they do sponsorships but they should reach out to you lol
girl I just sat down and grabbed some chips to watch this and my Uber just got here… I ain’t moving lol
I don't even vape but fume lookin pretty good lol are they actual flavors or just smells that trick your brian?
You know how they say say it takes a village, well imagine the village is the world and most of them don't actually know you and the ones who do are abusing and neglecting you.
And shout out to @Andrewism !!!
Just worth saying: kids who have good guardians can still be hurt. There were a couple kids who DID have parents who protected them, and the kids were punished for it. And then they ised that as an opportunity to isolate the kids by turning them against their parent. The system very proactively makes children vulnerable.
I've got to admit, I think that trying to police/decide how/whether kids should be in the entertainment industry isn't really possible to talk about in a vacuum. So much of the coercion and power imbalance that occurs with children is just a more extreme form of the abuse that is typical to the entire entertainment industry. I mean look at how many women were denied a career because they turned down the advances of certain powerful men in the industry?
Ideally I would think we allow children to be in entertainment, but that it needs to be heavily regulated. The same way education is. Anything regarding children needs to be heavily regulated. Things like limiting the number of hours per day and per week, limiting how late or early they can work, limit where their pay can go and how it can be spent etc. It is a very multifaceted issue, but ultimately children need so many more protections than most are willing to even consider, never mind accept.
There are forms of employment and interactions we have agreed that children can not consent to no matter how enthusiastic the might appear, I think the type of public exposure implicit in acting and content creation may be one of those things. The fact of being a child with the combination of brain development and power dynamics is just antagonistic to real consent, period.
yeah
Everytime Khadija says "Age of Aquarius" my mind start playing the Hair musical, every. single. time.
I don't mind. 😅