This is a fantastic breakdown - thank you. Im playing this at a concert in a few months and have had a few sleepless nights around how to get this right. The knowledge you've shared here has put pay to all of that! Thanks again and keep up the great work
I saw the interview with Pete where he mentioned the S&H and thought it was maybe my own misunderstanding. Thanks, you made it so clear! Great job, nailed it.
You did the most important thing. And I'm so glad you did. There's 2 things going with the timing. You have the faster notes playing, then you have a half speed filter sweep going in and out. I have to finish the video, but you nailed it from the top. Good job!
Pete made great use of the Lowry organ. The intro to Baba O’Reilly was also done with a Lowry. The Beatles also used one on the intro to Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds.
This was really good. I've recently acquired a Fantom-0 and there is a tone already on it called Fooled Again but this is in a different league. The only change I made (as much for experimentation as anything) was to try replacing the tremolo fx with tempo-syncing the LFOs instead, leaving the MFX free for something else. It worked very effectively for my needs. Awesome job though. Just taking me through the editing process alone made me realise just how deep Zen-Core goes.
@crystalwaveable thank you! I'm really happy you found the video helpful! Tempo syncing the LFOs also makes a lot of sense as well. And yeah, you can go very deep with Zen-Core, lmao. I'm also a big fan of the Hammond B3 sounds it has too btw
Hey Been trying to emulate this for ages, not being a keyboard/ synth person- guitars are more my thing! Really appreciate the detail you go into-Thanks Man really AWESOME!
Dude! I wish you would have put this video out 6 years ago, when I did this myself also. You would have saved me a ton of time! There are a lot of videos on RUclips of this being done wrong. Your video is Great! I used very much the same signal chain that you are using, but I did it all in Logic. I used the electronic organ, and then I ran that sound through the Square wave at 135bpm, then I applied a sweeping filter at the end. It is important for people to understand that this is not an arpeggiation. The part is played live, in sync with the square wave pulse.
Thank you! I'm glad the vudeo helped you out! Fun fact. When the Who played it live. They used the original orgam track. They just duct taped heaphones to Keith's head. And blasted the tracj so he could keeo time
Hi Joe, Fantastic tutorial. You explain things very clearly. I have a question- I have a Korg Triton Studio (I know it's dated...but it's a workhorse for me) and I'm not intimate with all the editing I can do in it. Different manufacturers name equivalent functions differently. I'm trying to relate the Rolands sound banks to the Korg sound banks. In my Korg, I have two 'modes'. One being 'Program Mode' and the other 'Combi Mode'. All the Korg supplied patches are in 'Program Mode'. I can combine up to 8 Program Mode patches into a Combi Mode patch. Not being familiar with the Roland, I'm assuming 'Scenes' in the Roland are the equivalent of 'Combi' in the Korg and 'Tone' in the Roland are the equivalent of 'Program' in the Korg. If that is correct, are you performing your edits in 'Scene' or 'Tone'? Also, each Program in the Korg can have two Oscillators and I can assign specific multisamples to a Program. I don't know what the equivalent of that is in the Roland but I'm assuming you're not editing the 'Tone' but rather combining both 59.Organ Wave 2 and 70.Organ 2 into a 'Scene'. Is that correct? Thanks! Ed
@edkolcz-lf1wg Thank you! Yes, when i am making my edits. They are editing the scene, which has the envelopes, oscillators, filter, etc. In the roland, you can up 8 or 16 scenes depending on the mode. In each scene, there are partials they can be edited either independently or together. Think of each partial like a synth. My advice is to find the sounds that work in program mode. Then, use combi mode to blend them. Also, i recommend putting the modulation effect in combi mode if that's possible. That way, the trem stays consistent. Hope that helps?
Absolutely brilliant! Do you have any advice as to creating this sound using VSTs, for example, Arturia's collection or the Roland Cloud VSTs. Thank you so much!
@carlodiminico thank you! Yes, for VSTs, the main thing is the source sound. I'd recommend using a Vox organ or Farfesia organ VST. You'll have to play with the settings on the instruments. Then you can drop a filter plug in and tremolo plug in. If you don't have a filter plug-in, then a heavy phaser could also work in a pinch. Hope that helps
@Drew_Hurst he is one of the best songwriters from that era. Like you said, it is very clever and creative that he came up with the idea of running an organ through a synth
Great tips. I'm trying to get close on guitar with any combination I can of the following pedals - EHX C9 Organ Generator, Eventide Tricerachorus, TC Electronic Helix Phaser and the Tremelo of a Keeley Hydra. Needs work but this helps a lot.
That's awesome! I've had to play that part on guitar before. Although i didn't use a tremolo pedal, i just pucked it, haha! It was a last-minute encore lol
I've realised my EHX Attack Delay pedal has a square wave Tremelo effect (the Hydra only has Sine or Harmonic) which is in front of the organ pedal. Plucking may still get a more consistent result although it is tiring on the hands if played for the whole song. Good fun experimenting though.
@shambapoo yeah man it's fun nessing around with effects like this! Try putting the tremolo pedal after the organ pedal. That might help get you a more pronounced effect. If you set the depth of the sine wave to the max. It'll sound close, just rounded off.
I have a Lowrey TBO, and one of these days I'll dive into emulating its "marimba repeat" function that Townshend used on Baba O'Riley. What would be a good starting point? Reaktor? A programmable arpeggiator?
That's really cool you have an original TBO! The Reaktor would be a great place to start, you could probably use the built in modulation to get the repeat emulation. Set the LFO to a square wave and make sure you send the signal to the amp (I forgot to mention that in the video) make sure the depth is maxed out and you want it synced to 16th notes around 117 BPM. Although you can do that with an arpeggiator too, that would also let you program the actual note instead of playing it. It is also worth noting I have gotten close (for live situations) to Pete's sounds using a VOX emulation on a Nord Stage 2 for example. So don't be afraid to try other organ emulations that are not a B3 clone. There don't seem to be any Lowrey plug ins, which is a shame lol. I hope this helps!
@@JoeKnecht3 Yes, the trick, IIRC, is that the marimba repeat function will alternate between held notes in a particular way, with amplitude envelope triggering on each note like a polyphonic ARP Odyssey. Note triggering is separate between manuals, yet the repeats are synced. I'll chime in after I investigate it a little more.
Oh that's interesting. I went with the assumption that the marimba repeat was global, not split between the manuals like that. Learn something new everyday haha! If you are using an LFO with a square wave to get the Marimba repeat sound. You could set it so it retriggers independently per key. If that dose not work make to versions of the preset and split your keyboard with plug ins you might need a DAW. Do you have a DAW preference? I'll keep looking into emulating that quark. @@elazmohiftenfifter4340
@@JoeKnecht3 Yes, but this is the sweep of the bandpass filter so the pointed nature would not be noticeable, it would just appear as a linear sweep up and then a linear sweep down.
@vladimpaler3498 There is only one filter sweep happening. Which is a low pass filter. Although because the sweep is slow. It can be hard to notice the difference between the two.
No, you've got it wrong. Townshend is also using a Sample and Hold Gate coupled with the Filter Sweep. You are confusing what he did for Baba O'Riley. You've got way too much distortion and a Tonewheel will work just fine.
Actually, what you are thinking of is the "Marimba Repeat" function on the organ. It was independent per keyboard. Which is how Pete gets those triplets. The part i messed up on. Was i said the organ was doing the square wave tremolo. I thought the Marimba Repeat function was universal. So, the synth is doing the square wave modulation and filter sweeps. There is no sample and hold. And yeah, i could tone the overdrive back a little. That was as low as i could get it with that keyboard. Also, i have never heard anyone het close usong a tonewheel organ. I would love to see examples of people getting close with a tonewheel organ
Loved your video! Question: How do I get all Partials 1-4 highlighed yellow in the ON position when making changes to LFO1 settings etc? I can only highlight one Partial at a time in the ON position. Thanks!
You are welcome! Hold down the shift button when selecting what partials you want to edit/control. That will let you highlight multiple partials to control them at once. Took me a minute to figure out myself when I first got the keyboard haha.
I got another question Joe... After selecting Filter Depth in the LFO Dest tab, I go to LFO1 tab and when I select the LFO Type (SIN, TRI, S&H) nothing changes in the sound like in your video. What am I missing? Thanks!
@newportgeorge Make sure you adjust the cutoff. If your filter is all the way open (the cutoff knob is all the way up) then you won't hear any modulation. You can dial in the filter modulation sound by tweaking the cutoff and resonance.
Joe, Even when I turn the Cutoff dial up or down along with Resonance up or down nothing changes much. I doesn't change at all even when scroll through the LFO Types What position (Time 12 O'clock, 3 O'clock, etc) are your Cutoff Dial and resonance dial set to? Thank you!
Joe, this is by far, the best tutorial for re-creating this classic synthesizer sound. Thank you for posting so that we can learn to play it too.
Thank you! So happy it helped you out!
This is a fantastic breakdown - thank you. Im playing this at a concert in a few months and have had a few sleepless nights around how to get this right. The knowledge you've shared here has put pay to all of that! Thanks again and keep up the great work
You're welcome, haha! I'm really happy the video helped you out! Good luck at your gig bro, hope it goes well for ya!
I saw the interview with Pete where he mentioned the S&H and thought it was maybe my own misunderstanding. Thanks, you made it so clear! Great job, nailed it.
@@joewhy thanks!
Gotta say, that's brilliant work.
Thanks!
As a CSI: Miami fan, you nailed this.
Thank you so much!
This was spot on! Love all the background… you really know your stuff. Thanks for sharing!!
You're welcome!
Holy shit, tone is on point. Great video dude! keep rockin
Thank you!
Excellent
Thanks!
You did the most important thing. And I'm so glad you did. There's 2 things going with the timing. You have the faster notes playing, then you have a half speed filter sweep going in and out. I have to finish the video, but you nailed it from the top. Good job!
@corporalkush2060 thank you very much!
Pete made great use of the Lowry organ. The intro to Baba O’Reilly was also done with a Lowry.
The Beatles also used one on the intro to Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds.
Yeah, i believe the Beatles used it on a few other tracks as well
That was really good, dialed it right in. Might have to use you in the future.
@@jeffalbro4534 thank you! I do session work and can work on projects remotely. Hit me up on any of my socials if you want to work together
I've been doing it all wrong! Trying to play the whole thing with my right hand - thanks for this - brilliant
You're welcome!
This was really good. I've recently acquired a Fantom-0 and there is a tone already on it called Fooled Again but this is in a different league. The only change I made (as much for experimentation as anything) was to try replacing the tremolo fx with tempo-syncing the LFOs instead, leaving the MFX free for something else. It worked very effectively for my needs. Awesome job though. Just taking me through the editing process alone made me realise just how deep Zen-Core goes.
@crystalwaveable thank you! I'm really happy you found the video helpful! Tempo syncing the LFOs also makes a lot of sense as well. And yeah, you can go very deep with Zen-Core, lmao. I'm also a big fan of the Hammond B3 sounds it has too btw
Hey Been trying to emulate this for ages, not being a keyboard/ synth person- guitars are more my thing! Really appreciate the detail you go into-Thanks Man really AWESOME!
Thank you so much! I'm glad this video helped you out
Supurb! Nailed it.
Will check out some of Your other videos now!
@Drew_Hurst thank you! I'm really happy you enjoyed the video
That was Awesome! Great Breakdown!❤🇬🇧TheWHO❤🇬🇧
@@DirtyWindshieldSeries thank you so much
Quality you know your tech, brilliant 👏
Thank you!
Thank you! Great video!
@@leyetnin1 you're welcome!
I didn't understand any of that because I have no musical talent or knowledge, but it was fascinating anyway. Thanks for a great video.
@@juliansmith4295 thanks!
that's sick! Sounds like original.
Thank you so much!
amazing video, thanks!
@@seanmartin681 you're welcome!
Amazing an anthem and unique part of uk music history!!!
Indeed
That was awesome, you got that so close to the original sound. Amazing.
Thank you!
You make it look so easy! Thanks - I'm going to give it a go now!
Glad I could help! It's such a fun song to play, especially live with a full band!
Great pick to try and duplicate. I often wondered how it was done.
Thanks bro! Gotta love the classics!
Dude! I wish you would have put this video out 6 years ago, when I did this myself also. You would have saved me a ton of time! There are a lot of videos on RUclips of this being done wrong. Your video is Great! I used very much the same signal chain that you are using, but I did it all in Logic. I used the electronic organ, and then I ran that sound through the Square wave at 135bpm, then I applied a sweeping filter at the end. It is important for people to understand that this is not an arpeggiation. The part is played live, in sync with the square wave pulse.
Thank you! I'm glad the vudeo helped you out! Fun fact. When the Who played it live. They used the original orgam track. They just duct taped heaphones to Keith's head. And blasted the tracj so he could keeo time
You nailed it. Great tutorial.
Thank you
Thanks for posting this!
You're welcome!
Amazing !!!! keep it up and many thanks !! 🤩
Thank you!
This was very interesting and informative. I enjoyed it!!
Thank you!
You nailed that! Kudos 👌🏻
Thank you!
Hi Joe, Fantastic tutorial. You explain things very clearly. I have a question- I have a Korg Triton Studio (I know it's dated...but it's a workhorse for me) and I'm not intimate with all the editing I can do in it. Different manufacturers name equivalent functions differently. I'm trying to relate the Rolands sound banks to the Korg sound banks. In my Korg, I have two 'modes'. One being 'Program Mode' and the other 'Combi Mode'. All the Korg supplied patches are in 'Program Mode'. I can combine up to 8 Program Mode patches into a Combi Mode patch. Not being familiar with the Roland, I'm assuming 'Scenes' in the Roland are the equivalent of 'Combi' in the Korg and 'Tone' in the Roland are the equivalent of 'Program' in the Korg. If that is correct, are you performing your edits in 'Scene' or 'Tone'? Also, each Program in the Korg can have two Oscillators and I can assign specific multisamples to a Program. I don't know what the equivalent of that is in the Roland but I'm assuming you're not editing the 'Tone' but rather combining both 59.Organ Wave 2 and 70.Organ 2 into a 'Scene'. Is that correct? Thanks! Ed
@edkolcz-lf1wg Thank you! Yes, when i am making my edits. They are editing the scene, which has the envelopes, oscillators, filter, etc. In the roland, you can up 8 or 16 scenes depending on the mode. In each scene, there are partials they can be edited either independently or together. Think of each partial like a synth. My advice is to find the sounds that work in program mode. Then, use combi mode to blend them. Also, i recommend putting the modulation effect in combi mode if that's possible. That way, the trem stays consistent. Hope that helps?
@@JoeKnecht3 Yes it does. Thank you very much!!
@@edkolcz-lf1wg you're welcome
Absolutely brilliant! Do you have any advice as to creating this sound using VSTs, for example, Arturia's collection or the Roland Cloud VSTs.
Thank you so much!
@carlodiminico thank you! Yes, for VSTs, the main thing is the source sound. I'd recommend using a Vox organ or Farfesia organ VST. You'll have to play with the settings on the instruments. Then you can drop a filter plug in and tremolo plug in. If you don't have a filter plug-in, then a heavy phaser could also work in a pinch. Hope that helps
Will do! Thanks again.
@@carlodiminico you're welcome
Great...exact tone! well explained
Thank you so much! I'm glad it helped!
Really Cool Joe!!
Thanks
How creative was Pete Townsend to even come up with this!
@Drew_Hurst he is one of the best songwriters from that era. Like you said, it is very clever and creative that he came up with the idea of running an organ through a synth
Great tips. I'm trying to get close on guitar with any combination I can of the following pedals - EHX C9 Organ Generator, Eventide Tricerachorus, TC Electronic Helix Phaser and the Tremelo of a Keeley Hydra. Needs work but this helps a lot.
That's awesome! I've had to play that part on guitar before. Although i didn't use a tremolo pedal, i just pucked it, haha! It was a last-minute encore lol
I've realised my EHX Attack Delay pedal has a square wave Tremelo effect (the Hydra only has Sine or Harmonic) which is in front of the organ pedal. Plucking may still get a more consistent result although it is tiring on the hands if played for the whole song. Good fun experimenting though.
@shambapoo yeah man it's fun nessing around with effects like this! Try putting the tremolo pedal after the organ pedal. That might help get you a more pronounced effect. If you set the depth of the sine wave to the max. It'll sound close, just rounded off.
Nice work fella.
Thanks!
Brilliant!
Thanks!
How about some Depeche Mode sounds? Like from "Songs of Faith," "Violator," and "Ultra."
Already planning that out now!
Fantastic 👏 👏
Thank you!
great video
@@ericstefko4852 thanks!
@@JoeKnecht3 you are welcome, that is such an iconic song and intro. I always wondered how it was done
Cool.
Thanks!
that sounded good
Brilliant
Thanks!
I have a Lowrey TBO, and one of these days I'll dive into emulating its "marimba repeat" function that Townshend used on Baba O'Riley. What would be a good starting point? Reaktor? A programmable arpeggiator?
That's really cool you have an original TBO! The Reaktor would be a great place to start, you could probably use the built in modulation to get the repeat emulation. Set the LFO to a square wave and make sure you send the signal to the amp (I forgot to mention that in the video) make sure the depth is maxed out and you want it synced to 16th notes around 117 BPM. Although you can do that with an arpeggiator too, that would also let you program the actual note instead of playing it. It is also worth noting I have gotten close (for live situations) to Pete's sounds using a VOX emulation on a Nord Stage 2 for example. So don't be afraid to try other organ emulations that are not a B3 clone. There don't seem to be any Lowrey plug ins, which is a shame lol. I hope this helps!
@@JoeKnecht3 Yes, the trick, IIRC, is that the marimba repeat function will alternate between held notes in a particular way, with amplitude envelope triggering on each note like a polyphonic ARP Odyssey. Note triggering is separate between manuals, yet the repeats are synced. I'll chime in after I investigate it a little more.
Oh that's interesting. I went with the assumption that the marimba repeat was global, not split between the manuals like that. Learn something new everyday haha! If you are using an LFO with a square wave to get the Marimba repeat sound. You could set it so it retriggers independently per key. If that dose not work make to versions of the preset and split your keyboard with plug ins you might need a DAW. Do you have a DAW preference? I'll keep looking into emulating that quark. @@elazmohiftenfifter4340
vielen Dank🤟
Thank you
You are sure the swept filter is sine and not triangle envelope? I have seen another content creator use triangle and it sounded very, very close.
Yes, while they do sound close. The triangle wave sounds more pointed, compared to the more rounded sweep of a sine wave.
@@JoeKnecht3 Yes, but this is the sweep of the bandpass filter so the pointed nature would not be noticeable, it would just appear as a linear sweep up and then a linear sweep down.
@vladimpaler3498 There is only one filter sweep happening. Which is a low pass filter. Although because the sweep is slow. It can be hard to notice the difference between the two.
No, you've got it wrong. Townshend is also using a Sample and Hold Gate coupled with the Filter Sweep. You are confusing what he did for Baba O'Riley. You've got way too much distortion and a Tonewheel will work just fine.
Actually, what you are thinking of is the "Marimba Repeat" function on the organ. It was independent per keyboard. Which is how Pete gets those triplets. The part i messed up on. Was i said the organ was doing the square wave tremolo. I thought the Marimba Repeat function was universal. So, the synth is doing the square wave modulation and filter sweeps. There is no sample and hold. And yeah, i could tone the overdrive back a little. That was as low as i could get it with that keyboard. Also, i have never heard anyone het close usong a tonewheel organ. I would love to see examples of people getting close with a tonewheel organ
Loved your video! Question: How do I get all Partials 1-4 highlighed yellow in the ON position when making changes to LFO1 settings etc? I can only highlight one Partial at a time in the ON position. Thanks!
You are welcome! Hold down the shift button when selecting what partials you want to edit/control. That will let you highlight multiple partials to control them at once. Took me a minute to figure out myself when I first got the keyboard haha.
Thank you!
I got another question Joe... After selecting Filter Depth in the LFO Dest tab, I go to LFO1 tab and when I select the LFO Type (SIN, TRI, S&H) nothing changes in the sound like in your video. What am I missing? Thanks!
@newportgeorge Make sure you adjust the cutoff. If your filter is all the way open (the cutoff knob is all the way up) then you won't hear any modulation. You can dial in the filter modulation sound by tweaking the cutoff and resonance.
Joe, Even when I turn the Cutoff dial up or down along with Resonance up or down nothing changes much. I doesn't change at all even when scroll through the LFO Types What position (Time 12 O'clock, 3 O'clock, etc) are your Cutoff Dial and resonance dial set to? Thank you!
that patch is in a lot of korg keyboards
That's pretty cool. Which models have it? I imagine the Kronos probably does right?
@@JoeKnecht3Kronos and the Karma
@@JoeKnecht3My Karma has it
That's pretty cool
do you have a band that plays at the Boston collage?
I do play in a band based out of boston. "Max Boras" it's my buddies solo project. We gig around the New England area
@@JoeKnecht3 i think i saw you guys play at the boston collage a few months ago
Was is back in March or February?
@@JoeKnecht3 yes, march i think. i remeber you guys played this song to
Oh yeah, i remember that one. That was at Sammy's pub if i remember, haha. We usually close with that song. It's a good show closer
Or you could just do it on guitar like EVH lol
Lmao! I have done that before. It does work