Why Breath of the Wild's weapons are bad on purpose
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- Опубликовано: 17 ноя 2021
- I know this may come as a surprise to some of you, but I am a pretty big fan of The Legend of Zelda.
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Although much maligned, I can appreciate Breath of the Wild's durability system for what it was attempting to do. It does also create an interesting automatic balancing feature, in that players can't find a single high power weapon and invalidate any other loot. I find the alternative approaches to open world loot admirable, instead of going for common strategies like equipment with randomly rolled stats or bonuses. Really though, the thing I found most stifling about the durability system was just how it disincentivized combat. It never felt good to just get into a battle, because the weapon cost was always weighing on my mind.
Personally, I don't find the random stats solution enjoyable (like, for example, what happens in Nioh), as it forces the player to spend a lot of playtime just staring at a weapon list and figuring out what is useful and what is garbage. I still haven't played BotW but it seems its approach is at least simpler and less disconnected from the actual gameplay
@@SlackerFace18 yeah, with BotW's system, you can immediately know if what you picked up is good or not, so the player isn't jerked out of their gameplay to go stare at their lists every time they pick up something new
Sure, but it doesn't give you the feeling that you're swinging a sword, you feel like you're waving around a stick covered in tinfoil. I'd even vouch for a system that degrades attack per hit until it breaks also
imo its still an *awful* system. It alone makes me hate the game
Personally I like the durability system, to the point where early on I loved it when night rolled around and I could just pick up skeleton arms from the constant stream of baddies for easy knockdowns on rapidly breaking the very arms I just picked up. Having to constantly find new stuff prevented me from getting too comfortable with any given weapon, keeping the game fresh for a long period of time. Sure I might have a "special stash" of weapons I save for tougher fights, but I always made sure to keep some throwaway weapons for taking out random baddies that are annoying me.
Well after all, Fromsoft has a track record for amazing chests
Thank you for making me smile. ;)
The most unforgettable amazing chest of them all
*But it was a hologram.*
Amazing chests ahead
😏
I think it's also improved by the fact that Souls games have a lot of weapons and armor to begin with. Especially if they reuse weapons. I'm excited to be on the hunt for the Moonlight Greatsword.
I look forward to thinking I have the MGS, only to learn deep in the late game that my version is a fake and there's actually a better one.
and the og greatsword
It's probably gonna be a sidequest and boss fight to get it.
I wouldn't be surprised as opposed to a moonlight greatsword, we get a moonlight weapon art instead. Or who knows maybe both?
@@nazzarwrath5691 Definely both. There are magic greatsword spells even in DS3. You can see it being used in sorcery builds in the Elden Rings test
I think the same can be said of spirit ashes. They’re just using the same enemies in the game but making them look like spirits. Most of them aren’t especially useful once you have unlocked the stronger ones in the game. But they’re unique so you usually don’t feel disappointed picking one up.
My wife (a game designer) watched this and went “oh my god, those poor From Software animators…”
As a game dev who knows how hard it is to add animations… no. Your second example is likely incorrect. This isn’t being done cause it’s easier… it’s that From Software is insane with the effort they put into their game mechanics.
Making a new weapon model and re-using the old animations is way easier than making a system to map animations to any weapon you want.
The funny thing is that Dark Souls 3 WA art system could probably allow that with just some modifications from From Software part ,they made way more robust and complex than what was necessary for that game.
@@lordanonimmo7699 maybe they used some of this now in Elden Ring 🤔
I think it's less that. While each weapon has it's own animations there are multiple of the same weapon. Greatswords will all have about the same animations. Some ashes of war don't really change depending on the weapon it's more or less just an appearance. also most ashes of war have limited application, Like you can't use carian glintsword without a sword, You can't put it on a reaper or a spear, So animations get reused.
That being said game devs are over worked and underpaid. It's the biggest reason why when I was in highschool I grew up enough to give up on that dream.
Sorry for long post, but passionate about business models 🙂
The reason Elden Ring feels like such a high effort game. Is because From software utilizes the Ikea business model.
Basically if a company does just one thing, and that’s it. Your company will naturally become hyper efficient at it.
Ikea just does flat pack furniture, so they only need specific materials, machines and factories to make all their products. They don’t make solid wood chairs or tables, so there’s a whole bunch of tools, oils for finishing they don’t have to buy.
From software makes one style of game, so they are limited on the glitches to fix, they can reuse animations. They’ve perfected all the combat theory in all the previous souls born games.
Having all those cost reductions allows them to spend more time making incredible worlds and the fucking sickest horse combat known to gamers.
Basically from software’s business model of niching down and focusing allows them to create such ridiculously high effort games without actually spending a fortune!
uh... no? having a system for interchangable weapons and animations is barely different from having mix-and-match armor pieces
I just just love how you immediately stab the chest before you opened it
It was the first chest I found in the Network Test. Can't be too careful.
the moment I thought that they had done away with the mimics in dark souls 2 i was punished severely.
@@k.m.m.a81 I hope they hide them better... or make more mimic types...
Or even better, the muscle mimic meme... because sometimes I want to be just decked.
@@simplyhammer5105 Chokehold from mister mimic? (⁄ ⁄•⁄ω⁄•⁄ ⁄)
@@simplyhammer5105 bro you good?
"Striking a balance between the scale of the world you're building and how much you can fill it with is crucial."
You condensed that concept perfectly. Love that
But a concept which 9/10 open world games don't accomplish without Mods. lol
I've come to appreciate just how hard making an open world game is. There is a reason far cry games tend to be pretty copy paste. The team does not have the time or resources to actually fill a map that large with anything meaningful
Honestly after the first dozen or so hours of BOTW (if that), running out of weapons stopped being an issue for me; I had plenty to go around. If anything, the annoyance as the game went on became about having too many-- I'd find a cool weapon and get frustrated that I didn't have a slot for it, even as I couldn't find anything I wanted to get rid of to take its place.
Bro I was thinking same thing. I was like I always had to drop my cool stuff for cooler stuff and it was like dang it which do I drop? I would go out of my way sometimes to find enemies to fight to get rid of my lower ones to have better ones to fight with
_Cull the weak._
No, seriously. Just get rid of the weakest weapon every time. The stuff that appears is based on what's in your inventory.
Yes, the inventory management aspect was a bigger issue than actually running out of weapons.
Yep, my first couple hours of my only playthrough (MM) I was amazed at how terrible the weapon system seemed to be. After that it was never really an issue again and actually enjoyed the mechanic as it forced you to cycle them. I've probably tried every weapon in the game. I do think they could do a better job at the early game, especially in MM where you mostly have sticks and clubs and the enemies have so much HP.
I've only ever bothered with like 5 weapons and arts in ER since there's a lack of smithing stones and not really a need to downgrade yourself just for variety's sake.
@@zSanityz As annoying as those early hours in BOTW are from a gameplay perspective, from a narrative perspective they helped put me in Link's shoes, all on my own in a big scary world overrun by evil. And it made the the latter part of the game much more satisfying, because I felt like I'd truly mastered the world.
Elden Ring's weapon upgrade system made me too cautious to upgrade my early-ish weapons more than a few levels, since I was sure I'd find better ones and didn't want to waste resources on them.
This reminds me of a relevant quote: "Given the opportunity players will optomize the fun out of almost anything." Seems to be an unfortunate truth and quite a challenge for good game design. I liked BotW's system personally although it did have its flaws. It's funny that some of the most fun I had in the game was when my weapons were taken away like during the master sword trials or that one island trial, it forces you to think outside the box and make the best of what you have.
This is exactly what I liked about the durability system in BotW. Collecting weapons for every occasion, but having a few open slots for whatever I found. The only one I "had" to have was a fire weapon (because FIRE!), so I generally carried two of them. I ended up being more creative in combat and learning just how deep the combat system is, instead of just using the "best" weapon I have. Plus, knocking enemies off cliffs with a leaf is incredibly satisfying... :)
Exactly what makes the game fun. People looking for a power fantasy get salty about having to think while playing. It's doom 2016 vs eternal.
@@KBergs Tedium /= challenge. To most people, BoTW's weapons system is a case of the former, not the latter. No one dislikes weapons fragility because it "balances the game," or makes them "think outside the box," they dislike it because it's simply unsatisfying for them to deal with. Resource management can asbolutely add depth, challenge and fun to a game, to be sure, but in the case of BoTW it feels more like a chore than anything to most players.
@@BenjaminAnderson21 Don't take this the wrong way, but theyre all playing the game wrong. The star of the game is not the open world, like is often stated, but actually the physics system. Youre supposed to be using things like chu jelly, octo balloons, elements, runes, and the assorted little things like explosive barrels that happen to be nearby. The problem is that most players dont. They run in and stab mobs and thats just it, and then they complain about not having enough weapons or breaking their good ones after one fight. For further examples of how the devs incentivize the former playstyle, look at the scenarios presented on the great plateu. Theres a camp in a windy area surrounded by dry grass, with a nearby fire. There are 2 bokoblins in another place, just below a cliff with a pushable rock. Theres a blue bokoblin which will one-shot you, but he conveniently lives in a skull camp with explosives everywhere and a hanging lantern. Again, the problem isnt the system, its players not engaging with it correctly which leads to frustration. Which, to be fair, is blame-able on the developers, but boy did they try their best to teach you
@@NorthSudan the issue is, why spend ten minutes looking for the best way to use physics to attack a bunch of random bokoblins when I can just go around them? The physics engine is unique and it does add something to the game for people who want to exploit every aspect of it, but at the end of the day, exploration is king in this game.
I can definitely say that I think Elden Rings approach is the better of the two. In BotW's case of being a more "character" driven open world game, having the weapons as resources doesn't detract from the overall experience too much. But in the case of a Souls-esque game like Elden Ring, where the weapons one uses are pretty much integral to the identity of the character the player creates, it would've been much more damaging.
The biggest difference is that From Software is focusing on combat encounters while Nintendo with BOTW wanted to create a systematic game where cutting wood is necessary.
BotW is also probably a more extensive open world, with more emphasis on exploring and movement. Elden Ring is definitely much more about combat, so their combat mechanics will be more legitimate.
I'm actually okay with durability on principle for BotW, but it would have been better if the weapons weren't stratified into "better" and "worse", and instead just different. That way, most of the things you'd find would sustain you so that you don't break all your weapons and have to default to using bombs just because you found a higher-leveled enemy.
@@monsieurdorgat6864 From what we've seen in the CNT there seems to be content around literally every corner in the lands between and exploration is very much rewarded so your comment doesn't really make sense.
Yeah, as much as I really like the BotW durability system, I wouldn't want it in a Soulslike game because weapon choice is so core to your character identity.
@@FromsoftgoatKaj I think he is saying that breath of the wild focuses more in exploration by giving the player more freedom. You can use horses, fly, swim, climb, etc. You can reach almost any spot of the map because the game gives you the tools and you get rewarded by using them with creativity to reach your goals. Elden ring seems to have a good open world that rewards exploration, but it doesn't have the same variety as Botw, focusing much more in combat.
One idea I heard (I think from Ceave gaming) is to have weapons breaking give you shards of some sort to reward going through weapons. Perhaps those shards could boost the master sword and other weapons
I like this idea. Maybe even use shards to repair the weapons you care most about. It would make burning through the crappier weapons more meaningful. Or perhaps just flat out disassemble weapons for shards or parts of some sort, which again would make all the weapons you constantly pick up more meaningful. The problem is the developers didnt do enough to make you care about picking up new weapons, and it became a slog
Cool idea. Or make the sword shards currency with NPCs like Kilton.
Sounds like what Dying Light did with weapon durability. You can repair them a number of times, but after that you can break it down for materials to repair or build new weapons with.
@@r0bz0rly I don't see how being rewarded with shards would be annoying
@@chainsaw8507 I could give you something that lasts forever and is good at what it does, or I could give you ten things that look like that first one, but they're brittle and inadequate. It'll get the job done, just make sure to gather up all those shards!
"they're much less taxing for developers to create than whole weapons" this is definitally wrong, making a sword mesh and textures is simple compared to making an ash of war that has to animate the player, their outfit, their weapon, and all the hitboxes, while deciding on things like hyper armour, poise damage, cancelability, etc, and trying to balence it all so its not overpowered while also making sure players can't use it to glitch through walls or something, thats way harder than just making a weapon and tweaking a few of the variables of a similar weapon to make something new.
yeah I was kinda baffled by that statement as well and how it was put that "matter of factly".
Anyone interested in gamedev, hell, simply game design would see how much more effort ashes of war asks.
The design problem I suspect Nintendo tried to avoid is to find tons of weapons weaker than the one you have equipped. Especially since Botw design philisophy lets you have access to great gear early. that would mean a potential "all chests are disapointing, frustrating and a waste of time" playthrough
Yeah because uhhhhhhh
Botw: 1h sword, 2h sword, 1h mace, 2h mace, spear, bow, I'm pretty sure the axe shares animations with either the 2h sword or the 2h mace. After that... Basically the animations are done at that point with some tweaking to make sure nothing flies out of Link's hand and to make sure all the hitboxes work.
ER: ...How many ashes need unique animations? How many are able to share animations?? Even if some of them can share their effects, there are plenty that have unique effects. That's not less work.
ER didn't choose the path of less work, it chose the path of more satisfactory rewards for exploration.
@@rabbox4513 Yeah, this is probably the first video of Zullie I disagree with.
@@Graylord88 first vid of hers I watched. Does not give a good impression tbh
Was about to post a comment saying the same. Many years ago I got into a pretty ambitious game dev project on a whim. I had no prior experience. Despite being a volunteer project, it was led by professionals who worked in the industry, so it was not some cheap thing with bad practices. I ended up doing tons of level design and in my time there interacted a lot with other departments, such as 3d art. From what I've learned I can also say the whole process of creating ashes of war is much more taxing.
My gripe with the durability system in zelda is it seemed to limit the designers’ willingness to make anything “too cool” to lose. Like the master sword is cool so they have to make a way for you to get it back, everything else can’t be THAT cool because the player can’t be too upset when it breaks.
I mean there are cool weapons like the elemental weapons, wind cleaver, various boomerang type swords, and the various special weapons for each region (trident for Zora place, the fancy bow for the bird fellas, and I forget what the gorons had prolly a hammer.)
@@TheCosmicUprise sadly most of the attacks animation (even the diffrent weapon types) are the same. Which makes some players feel tedious when the game forces them to change weapon.
I think an alternative solution would be making all weapons equally good, but different. That way, you'd have ways you could specialize for different scenarios but never feel like you only need certain tiers of rare equipment to succeed.
Cus I do like the idea of looting equipment from chests, but my issue was more the risk that the chest was for a lower-tier weapon that wouldn't be worth using against higher leveled enemies.
So I'm okay with durability, but they'd need to be a little more responsible about implementing it. Put nice weapons in the chests with enemies around them, so you have to fight them to grab good weapons. Might even be a good idea to disregard the leveling enemies idea entirely, so you don't need a constant stream of god-tier weapons to get the next good weapon.
Eh that can be offset by just placing a lot of cool things in the world, so you can keep finding them. Like the Lynel Bows are awesome cause they shoot 3 or 5 arrows, and there are several Lynels in the world that drop those bows.
And this, with people like me, would only encourage "hoarding", leaving me not using any of the weapons, unless I knew they could be duplicated.
I think the biggest problem with botw's weapon durability is that when you reach the endgame, the only weapons you really need (for combat anyway) are the lynel and ancient ones. This means that after you use up lesser monster parts on armor upgrades, the only enemies worth fighting at lynels and guardians since even bokoblins at that point are too tanky to bother with.
I think the durability system actually shines the most in more self contained areas like eventide island or the trial of the sword.
Sure, but doesn’t that apply to any open world game? Reach endgame, get the best gear, loot doesn’t matter anymore. In BotW the journey to the end is made far more interesting by constantly having to switch to different weapons and scavenge for more. Compared to say, Skyrim, where you might use a total of three or four of the countless weapons you find in a playthrough.
What if lesser weapons could be discarded or scrapped for specific materials (as to not fill up your inventory and weapon slots) that could be used in any of the settlements to forge new weapons? Price and time of manufacturing should be adjusted in order to maintain the core and spirit of the game, that is, the durability system. This way combat, even against lesser enemies, can be somewhat rewarding without actually loosing weapons value overall.
@@SirHippolord well its not that finding loot in the endgame is a problem, its actually *using* that loot. In skyrim you may find hundreds of iron swords as loot, but that doesnt stop you from using dragonbone weapons on everything. Once you have the best weapons in botw, youre basically punished for using them on things that give low rewards because you lose more than you gain. Even on lynels i would only use my best melee weapon while mounting them because its the only way to attack without damaging the weapon.
@@SirHippolord My first playthrough of BotW was on master mode (I got the game late). On master mode, when everything is much stronger with larger health bars, having limited use on weapons is made much worse. Bokoblins would have absurd health pools where if I didn't have urbosa's fury charges, I would use up all of my weapons to kill 1 or 2.
With that being the case, I would never touch any enemy unless I was guaranteed to get more weapons back than I would lose.
@@ricardodemarco3486 oh yea absolutely. I think they could also be used to repair or even upgrade weapons too. That way when one of your weapons is close to breaking, you can just unequip it and fix it when you get the opportunity.
"It would be unrealistic to expect that many unique assets"
You know, that why reusing assets like crabs, dogs or animations isn't a problem when making a new game. It free up a massive amount of time to be spent elsewhere. And I feel it's why BotW has so little variety compared to Elden Ring: FromSoft had assets from 3 games they could reuse since ER has the same gameplay compared to Nintendo.
Even more, imagine the kind of games that could be made if assets could be shared instead of being kept for one studio, for one (or a few) projects? Game like what Cyberpunk 2077 wanted to be would be much easier to do.
This is why I'm looking forward to BotW2
"Even more, imagine the kind of games that could be made if assets could be shared instead of being kept for one studio, for one (or a few) projects."
Yes, YES! It's so sad to see artists' ability to collaborate stifled by which publisher owns this or that IP. I dream of a world where artists can freely share assets the same way I dream of a world where programmers can freely share code
I see a lot of people complaining about reused assets (not for ER specifically but for other games too), i, for one, greet them with joy as long as they are properly used.
You can create new things and have the old things too, in dark souls 3 you had crabs, in elden ring you have crabs AND lobsters.
@@kawaiimunism That would be a beautiful world to live in, and would lead to an artistic revolution. A gaming renaissance full of masterpieces like Elden Ring… I yearn to see such a dream become a reality.
This has been done before in Zelda games. Majoras Mask reused most of its assets from ocarina of time.
Wind waker assets were used in both the DS games.
As someone who always had his weapon invintory full in breath of the wild, I absolutely loved the durability system, as it forced me to try out different weapon types instead of just sticking with one forever, which is what I used to do before playing botw.
Yeah, the conclusion that the durability system turned people away from combat just doesn't track with my experience. Not only was I rarely ever running low on weapons, but I almost always had one low enough that I didn't mind using it on scrubs.
And if I for some reason had to cherish every blade in my bag, I could just use the infinite bombs.
Also one thing that making your weapons break is the incentive to find other ways to defeat enemies when you have few to no weapons, at least is what i experienced.
in master mode it was anoying though
in early game you would waste 2 weapons to kill a single bokoblin
@@mathdantastav2496 Yeah, but you're wasting like sticks or basic boko clubs :P I also never understood the complaint that the weapons system discouraged combat. What else are people using their weapons for if not to kill things?
@@maj.peppers3332 well, it can, sometimes you might rather go around a bokoblin group rather than through it, not cause itll be hard, but cause you want to save weapons
I find that a nice feature though
When I first played Breath of the Wild, I was totally on board for weapon durability and didn't see the issue with it. It was only when Master Mode was introduced that I realized a huge problem: what's the point in engaging with and fighting ANYTHING in the open world? You get no experience points or anything, usually the weapons you break for killing enemies are replaced by worse ones (bokoblin clubs, etc.), and there's usually a single chest waiting with a mediocre reward for clearing a camp of enemies. So when you have all these great weapons you've collected in your inventory, you start avoiding fights because you don't want to waste them! Wasn't too big a problem in normal mode, but Master Mode essentially incentivized running away from everything.
Incentivizing running away from every encounter is a bad look for the hero of the Triforce of Courage.
There actually is a hidden XP system for killing enemies in BotW. Its what controls enemy and weapons scaling in the world.
Being incentivized to avoid combat might have been why the journalists loved the game on release, since combat tends to be the thing none of them are capable of doing and they'd rather run around and look at flowers and bunnies.
it's arguably even worse in the Master Sword trials since even when you're saving your weapons only for the powerful enemies you're pretty much stuck running and gunning everything which can get really tedious in the later levels
By my second play through on Master Mode I opted for a korok leaf, nasty bokoblins? Gust them away into a water grave.
Saved me a ton of time on killing the stronger ones near the beginning
Zullie is a smart cookie. I like Zullie.
Can't believe it's *the* PlagueOfGripes
The Plague of Gripes: he who stares at bricks, the constructor of the fence, and holder of fucked-up duck facts
Did you smhell blud?! HUH?!
Ha you did a good job representing the botw durability issue
PlagueOfGripes likes Zullie. I like Zullie. I like PlagueOfGripes.
I think my favourite system for this is New Vegas’s, especially since it meshes with its post-apocalyptic setting so well. Pristine weapons are a rarity, and most stuff you find is ancient and in horrid condition. But depending on your Repair skill, you can poor-condition combine weapons of the same type to make a higher-condition weapon. And that isn’t even getting into the modding you can do to your weapons, which iirc is the most sophisticated modding system in the Fallout series.
Even more sophisticated with Weapon Mods Expanded (WMX) like i've modded Mercy (Grenade MG) to the point it becomes comically overpowered weapon in the game and can cause suicide if not use properly
You can buy better weapons, or just buy low grade weapons to repair your weapons. Or all someone to repair it for you. Or simply use a weapon repair kit that you build yourself. Honestly there's a lot of options, and I'm not even counting the perks
I would like to strongly disagree with this video. Ashes of war definitely take much longer to develop than it is implied here. From's strength in this regard is that they can reuse assets from previous entries, whereas BotW doesn't have any previous game to import assets from, and getting the current assets working in the more physics-based environment is harder, which is why it is quite lacking in terms of abilities and enemy variety when compared to other franchise entries or other open world titles. Also, for BotW, fighting enemies gives you loot, so you'll still want to go for combat, and by the time you'll want to keep some high level weapons at all times in the inventory you should have enough slots to keep a couple of disposable weapons for normal battles.
Because you'll get weapons from the enemies as you fight them, you can just swap them as you go. Also, high level weapons should be used on high level enemies and used up until they're broken so you won't wake up with all weapons almost at the breaking point. It's quite obvious that this is how the game was intended to be played imo, and weapon durability is not a challenge or annoyance after a while, once you stocked up on inventory slots and good weapons.
I would like to strongly agree with this comment.
I also strongly agree
I've gotten to the point where I'm using dragonbone boko/moblin clubs as disposable.
@Wonton Kasmir nah the part where elden ring apparently has less enemy variety than other open world titles, or the part the where somehow the weapon system of botw was not an absolute pain the ass.
I disagree with this comment most ashes of war are very much copy pasted over from previos games. Atleast half of the ashes of war are not unique.
Honestly, I think Breath of the Wild was just shy of the best solution for how it wanted to go: weapon durability should have had a companion repairing/crafting system where you can take weapons you collect to a blacksmith and consume them to either repair one you really like, or roll new stats on it. This incentivizes combat and exploration by making even the weaker weapons you might find useful.
That's the system used in Age of Calamity to incentivize replaying battles and collecting more and more weapons over time. You consume weapons of the same basic type to increase the strength of a favored one, give it bonuses, and customize it. Durability could still be a thing to make it a risk/reward for long stretches of combat. Harder combat encounters would call for your stronger weapons, and Bokoblin camps would naturally be more a target for your run-of-the-mill ones?
That system is probably used by every open world game that has a melee combat system with weapon degradation. That makes it all the more baffling why botw didn't go for it even though it took other ideas from games like Witcher, Skyrim etc. They wanted players to opt for other methods that much?
I totally disagree, I love breaking weapons. It gives extra value to the throw mechanic and I usually end up with a full inventory of them anyway.
It also rewards more clever use of your resources.
Your favorite unique weapons? You can always get those again once they break. I understand why people dislike it, but it’s never made me avoid fights either -the abundance of weapons usually means I’m trying to get rid of what I have to make space anyway.
This still makes breaking weapons a pain to some players since, as the video mentioned, you're not guaranteed to gain anything from engaging combat.
My idea is that there is a crafting system but it uses resources you can only obtain by breaking weapons.
So everytime you break a weapon you'll immediately collect spare parts from it, the stronger the weapon the better the materials from breaking it are, when you interact with the blacksmithing system you get to create strong more durable weapons from the leftovers of your broken ones, these will still eventually break too but will leave you with high quality materials to make equally or stronger weapons.
The nail in the coffin here is that you should only get materials from breaking weapons you can't buy or trade for them nor you can find them by exploring (maybe side quests can give you some tho) this so the system stays balanced and tight.
Two Worlds had a super interesting system for the fodder items that dropped constantly: stacking.
You could take duplicate weapons and stack them into each other infinitely, each one adding a small bit of power to the main stacked one. It was feasible to make the weakest weapon in the game capable of one-shotting any enemy in the game given enough copies of it. It wasn't super crazy fast scaling like 1 weapon = 1 damage, I'm not entirely sure what the scaling was but it would take several to see any change on the stat sheet, and it also meant that if you found a weapon type you really liked every time you found another one it was an exciting find as opposed to "oh boy, more vendor trash".
@@henrysmith8163 I agree with you on this tbh, at first I didn’t like that system but once I got used to it, it felt so rewarding. Infinite bombs kind of made this possible though as you never feel like you’ll end up truly defenseless. One thing they could do in botw 2 to smooth the gameplay though is maybe have broken weapons drop parts that you can use in a sort of crafting or blacksmithing system. It would need some testing to confirm, but it might preserve that aspect of gameplay while alleviating some of the anxiety some players have about breaking their good weapons.
I love Breath of the Wild, but a big gripe I had was that the chests couldn't reasonably contain anything unique; a helpful boost (at best) rather than a cool moment of discovery. Ashes of War are really looking like a consistently exciting reward to find.
The thing is, how many open world games DO consistently offer unique rewards for exploration? Usually it’s just some trash sword that you’ll never use, with a very small chance for something good. In BotW you knew you were getting something useful and at least mildly exciting in every chest.
@@SirHippolord Yeah a fire sword that I’ll never use was so helpful, Fallout does it way better where you can get temporary stat boosting items and even junk items can be sold for money.
@@SirHippolord "The thing is, how many open world games DO consistently offer unique rewards for exploration?"
Most of the Bethesda games. Fallout New Vegas in particular had unique items all over the place. Have hundreds of chests that give you the same stuff everywhere is more tedious than fun. With the weapon durability, it felt like I was pressured to just farm the couple good weapon chests and ignore the other chest because the cost > reward.
@@SirHippolord Not true at all, in many cases what I'd find in a chest would be worse than what my inventory was already full of, so I'd have no choice but to just leave it. Worse than vendor trash.
@@SirHippolord I was never excited to open a chest in BotW precisely because I knew that even if it did have a cool weapon that it was completely ephemeral and ultimately not that useful. That or money, so exciting.
BotW’s weapon fragility system is so badly designed it actually managed to ruin what in a well designed game would be one of the best moments- finding a cool, rare weapon.
One thing that I think gets left out of the convo about BOTW’s durability system is that it also pushes players to get creative in battle environments and other methods of attack. I found that seeing my melee weapons/wands as limited resources meant I was constantly searching for new ways of blowing up, shooting, pitfalling, etc my enemies
I can definitely appreciate what the durability system in Breath of the Wild was TRYING to do but it's definitely arguable how successful it actually was, and for me personally it was a huge hindrance on my enjoyment of the game. I think I actually might have preferred accidentally stumbling on the best gear too early over...feeling like no gear was actually particularly good because of how transient it all was. Finding a cool new weapon was never rewarding, because the first thought that went through my mind every time is "yeah but it'll break after like one fight, so who cares." The Champion weapons were the worst by far, since they're A) not as good as random gear you can find lying around and B) absurdly expensive to remake, so they just ended up decorating my house. There was never a situation where I wanted to use them, so they didn't even feel like real rewards.
I think in one sense it did work. When I was scrounging around for gear constantly it helped create a sense of tension (will I have enough supplies to get through this encounter?) and encouraged creative thinking. Unfortunately that...didn't actually happen very often. The game pretty quickly starts to overcompensate with weapon drops, to the point where after about the midway point, even random Bokoblins are carrying full-durability knight's broadswords. After that point I almost never had an empty slot in my weapon inventory. I would almost always get more weapons from a fight than I spent, even without being creative in the slightest, which completely destroyed the purpose of the durability system at all. Even most of the rewards felt useless because half the new weapons I'd find were worse than the ones I was already carrying. If I wanted something I'd always have to throw something else away, which feels bad.
I don't think durability by itself is a problem, I just think the system was really poorly balanced and executed. What I actually wanted to find more of was straight rupees, but that almost never happened. I think what they should have done was given money as a reward more often, weapons as a reward less often, but increased the durability of most weapons to match their new rarity. That way I'd have a smaller chance of constantly overflowing in quality one-handed swords.
I commented along similar lines about making weapons more durable and more scarce. I think that would be a huge improvement, but you also made a lot of other good points about the shortcomings of the weapon system. Here's to hoping they heed the gamers' criticisms and greatly improve the next game's weapon system.
THIS
i loved the durability system in botw. it was a great way to get me to try new weapons and allowed combat to not be stale as you switch from light spear to heavy sword to boomerang. In elden ring you spec into one class and the sunk cost fallacy really keeps you out of going for anything else. I used radahns’s swords for the rest of my playthrough after finding them and didn’t really feel motivated to trying anything else because it meant scrounging for more smithing stones to take a chance on a different weapon that might not be fun
@Split Dimension I haven't played this yet but watched some videoes. A few questions:
1. Is there any indicator of weapon/armor current durability (like a number or meter)? Or just these warnings pop up "___ is about to break."
Skyward Sword had breakable shields with a health bar to indicate (although irrelevant if you know how to shield bash).
2. Are the weapons repairable? If they're breakable then balancing it with some/most being repairable should be common sense.
@@burger_kinghorn you can see in the video the bad ones flash red
BOTW's looter approach had the exact opposite effect of what is intended in my opinion in that it made the chests almost entirely unexciting and unrewarding. Not only because the weapons are basically just consumables but also because you likely already have too much of it in your inventory.
Twilight Princess had a similar issue. Too many chests were just rupees. Too many quests just took rupees and lots just gave rupees. It was also never, to my recollection, consistent which chest model meant rupees, so you had to try and open every single one in the dungeon to make sure you didn't miss anything, even though it meant putting rupees back because you were capped.
@@leastmachine8693 Twilight Princess HD replaced a lot of rupees chests with Miiverse Stamps and believe me that's a way worse reward to get, especially since Miiverse has been dead for years.
Exactly. It's the same issue with shrines imo. Sure, getting hearts and stamina is cool, but I don't want to do 4 boring shrines to get them. It also made shrines so awful because you already know the reward way before you ever decide to do it
@@kreatona4219 The sheer number of shrines was an issue, too. I know they only had 4 "Dungeons" so the shrines were supposed to supplement them, but they were all so short and either incredibly easy or stupidly frustrating that I never wanted to do more than I felt I needed to. Other Zelda games I would 100% every time, but there are just way too many shrines and korok seeds in the game that 100% completion is just boring frustration.
@@kreatona4219 Yeah especially considering we can get an insane amount of hearts/extra health by just cooking up something anyways. It is still fun to search for and complete shrines for the most part but they don't feel rewarding compounded by the fact that they are too short.
Don't forget the two other ressources they use to fill the chests : Spells and Cookbooks.
With Ashes of War, this will be the three mains recompense to explore the world. Having a new sword or a new armor set will be much rariest.
Not a big fan of crafting, but eh, at least I won't have to farm to gain some low-level comsumables dropping randomly on enemies.
Also the summons,they are the best way to do this being already existing enemies made for the game but now they are your allies.
@@gilvanneto5772 Just kinda sucks you can only summon them in specific locations, i foresee that many ppl will just not bother with it in the long run unless theres an area that‘ll be significantly easier with a summon out
@@cherryrook8684 Almost all bosses let you use summons and many places with a lot of enemies so many people will be forced to use,the bosses in the game are especially harder now.
Honestly when I first realized I could now just make arrows and firebombs myself whenever I want to use them I was like "Thank GOD I don't have to buy these anymore"
The "go to this site of grace to farm materials" is a way better system than "go to this bonfire, kill these enemies and pray that they drop what I want", but I still miss the "go to the shop, buy 600 resins and forget about buying more, ever"
Breath of the Wild has what I call "Blueberry chests." In Star Ocean Till the End of Time, a significant number of chests were filled with blueberries, a common hp-restoring consumable. Chests rarely felt special as a result. Elden Ring isn't immune to Blueberry chests itself (why is it always mushroom), but in BotW there are almost no rewards that feel special.
That’s a really good name for them. I’ll have to use that in the future.
I disagree. Plenty of the chests and discoveries in BotW feel special. Finding a new weapon that behaved differently and was noticeably stronger still felt rewarding because it was a new resource that I could use in the sandbox. Not to mention the environmental story telling, side quests, set pieces, shrines etc.
arteria leaf
@@thefreshvince879 i would use those more often if they werent so rare to drop from giants
Maybe it's always mushroom because they thrive in a world filled with death?
true, but 50% of all chests in elden ring have mushrooms in them.
why is it always mushroom?
Yeah Zullie's great and this is one way to look at it but the reality is just that a chest or exploration reward doesn't NEED to be a weapon or offensive skill, or even a piece of equipment at all, theres a ton of items you can choose from and elden ring has things of varying usefulness all over its world, generally with the better stuff being harder to find, which if you asked me is the common sense thing video games always do
sounds like BotW just backed itself into a corner if they decided they would only have one form of main exploration reward and it had to always be a weapon, if that is the main reason they went with durability anyway (I've not played it though, maybe there are other rewards but if they copied and pasted weapons into various chests as rewards they didn't need to, coming up with another form of item to put in them would've worked just as well)
*People complaining about weapon durability
Me, a Fire Emblem player: You merely adopted the weapon durability. I was born in it. Molded by it. I didn't see unbreakable weapons until I was already a man.
Same thing for pokemon, but to run out of move pp is pretty hard to do to be honest.
The difference with those is that Pokemon has both "Inns" and "Potions" to remedy the PP. They effectively work in being used up and recovered like Magic in many games, rather than as a limited resource that you're gonna have to use sparingly. Pokemon eventually sorta got around the limited PP restoration outside of Centers and special locations with Cheri Berry harvesting for example.
And in the case of Fire Emblem, it has been fine-tuning their resource management for decades in a sensible manner, and it's not hard to grasp either. More durable weapons are cheaper(somehow) but less powerful and stronger weapons tend to be the opposite. Some weapons have bonus effects that enhances their value when used on the right enemies, and all weapons gain or lose some value when used on beneficial/detrimental matchups and encourage/discourage said values accordingly. Simple enough to follow. BotW is just resource management for the sake of it.
Weapon durability was my biggest gripe with Fire Emblem when I first played it on GBA as well. Shadows of Valentia is the best one for doing away with it.
@@MrMarket1987 Alright, I made a bit of an unfair comparison using Fire Emblem, because those weapons are almost meant to be used up. Resource and gold management played a significant part in some games, my favorite being Hector Hard Mode. The amount of enemies often meant cheap weapons were the most suitable choice, whereas in BotW, it effectively comes down to - as you said it - resource management. Although I often wanted to keep 'special' and elementary weapons for some elemental enemies.
Fire emblems weapon durability is a part of its tactical nature. If im playing zelda i just wanna hit stuff with a stick without thinking about anything.
Poor 13 year old me almost had a heart attack when I realized weapons permanently break after their durability depletes. On top of that, I found out after breaking the fucking Wolf Beil in FE7.
Not to mention the catalyst (is this what they were called?) system for the creation of unique potions.
God, I can't wait for this game.
This, item lore and ashes of war is a really great way to reward explorations in elden ring.
@@FireGiantFoot And the fact that there's dungeons everywhere... each with an unique miniboss
@@TheFizio And most of those mini-bosses can become spirit summons :)
@@slothful2039 wait so I can summon that creepy floating doggo statue thing that has a flamethrower in its mouth? That's the best thing ever
I can't wait to see how crazy the pvp meta gets
The summons also add to this imo. Reused enemies as an item. Genius.
I like the initial ideas of weapons and durability. It furthers the theme of this Link being a hunter who not only has to remember where his prey is but also where he can get the tools to do so. It makes it so that you have to mark and remember where weapons can be found during each cycle. The system overall could definitely be improved like being able to buy weapons from shops or being able to smith weapons using the materials you find.
Another solution could be to include a basic weapon that won't break. Imagine maybe a tarnished (hehe) master sword that's broken in the middle or something. It does about the same as a stick and doesn't break, making sure the player always has *something* to work with while also letting players do easier encounters without wasting weapons.
This also sets us up for how awesome it'll be when we restore the master sword instead of obtaining it.
As for how to make using weapons worth using over the sword beyond raw number? I think break hits do that pretty well. Break hits doing more damage encourages players to use weapons down to the last hit and to feel good expending them. Maybe make breaking them give some kind of small boon like materials?
I without a doubt commend Ashes of War. They are another way to customize a character, they make use of assets that already existed so they aren't a chore to make... It's just neat.
Plus they don't suck like weapon arts. If they'd been buffed in damage a touch I personally would've used them way more. They ended up being "use FP to look slightly cooler when you attack"
@@QueenSydon Or we took away your parry but look you can move like BB.
Something worth considering in the Souls context is intrinsic reward. The Souls games rely less on loot because a lot of the fun comes from applying skill and strategy in combat.
That means that any loot given is better off diverse than especially powerful. Ergo why Ashes of War fit, why twinblades have returned, and why spells are less orthodox. Your reward for finding stuff is, actually, more ways to do stuff.
Either choose a Knight or choose a Mage long enough to become a Knight...
I'll play as the Bloody Wolf for the Claymore at start... Unless they changed it at released.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 Bloody Wolf never had or will have a claymore, he most likely won't even be a starting class because of the armor's description.
@@Tacticaviator7
Welp... Magic Knight it is then... Since Cleric Beast Claw may not be a Starter at released.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 if you're talking about the Enchanted Knight, I too think that's an armor set that's not going to be on a starter class
@@deedumeday518
True
i spent so much more time running away from enemies for the sake of keeping my weapons than seeing what i could get in return, and that's what made me realize i wasn't really having that much fun
The one thing I am struggling to wrap my head around with BotW, that there isn’t a single blacksmith anywhere in the game to give you the chance to repair what weapons you have…or better yet a skill tree on smithing to prolong/repair the weapons you have.
Foraging for weapons early in the game was cool while you were building yourself up, but it became extremely tiresome for me after the first dozen hours or so. It absolutely gutted me to discover that even the Master Sword had a cooldown period of use against “unworthy enemies.” The one weapon in the game that you shouldn’t have to worry anything about, and they still put a leash on it.
There are blacksmiths who repair the four unique weapons for you. Everything else you can just go pick up again from wherever you got it in the first place. I guess it's more work because you have to remember where they are, or spend time looking for them (and explore more of the environment)?
I appreciate what Nintendo was trying to do with weapons and keep that sense of reward attached to them with the durability system; it just wasn't well implemented. Constantly having to dip in and out of a pretty basic menu really interrupted the flow of combat. Weapons should've just auto-replaced or rotated like they do in the second Ni No Kuni game.
The only problem I had with BotW's durability system was the lack of a basic weapon to fall back on. Beyond Oasis on the Genesis/Megadrive also had weapon durability but it also gave players a dagger to fall back on when all weapons were broken or when trying to conserve weapons.
Bombs
@@skullservant4417 Yes
Your 'basic weapons' in BotW were the Shiekah Slate runes.
Such as bombs and stasis.
I agree. It felt like if you did decide to fight you risked being unable to fight at all. The Risk became potentially needing to sneak and grab a crappy weapon to defend yourself, while The Reward was a third soldier's claymore and some bkne clubs to replace the two decent weapons you used to get it
@@gothicbutterfly013 Honestly, even as someone who enjoyed using bombs and stasis for combat in general, it feels kind of meh. I'd have liked if Link could use his fists in addition to the Sheikah Slate runes, both because it offers a basic melee option so you can still do a "basic" attack, and because it would be _really fucking funny_ if Link could just throw hands at will.
Botw durability system have another unintended problematic effect - it makes player hoard weapons and don't use best of them, because "there might be better time to use that thing". And this bad times never happens because you keep getting new weapons
Smart…but the majority of players still hate the durability solution. It often takes a great amount of time and effort to abtain a certain good weapon…to know it will brake next boss fight is just a huge turn off
Honestly I never had an issue with that, as you can naturally find weapon spawns for high tier weapons and simply mark it on the map, and return every now and then to pick up a new weapon. Like the royal claymore ontop of one of the big towers
The thing is weapon are resources in botw, cant look at it as equipment. In the boss example u gave, instead of seeing it as oh it broke in this boss, see it as damn i used that sweet weapon and thanks to it yhe fight was way easier than it would have been, and u got that boss loot. Which in case of some enemies can be weapons or loot to craft potions or upgrade gear
@@grog_speed well, as someone that never uses consumables because of fear of needing it later it just makes it all useless
@@16m49x3 I'd tell you something like "well in master mode you're really gonna want those consumables" but if weapon durability's already frustrating in normal gameplay you'll hate it when every enemy is magnitudes stronger lol
This is someone would say who didn't play BotW
When I saw the ash of war all I could think was “those poor QA testers”
There must be a gigantic spreadsheet
Hmmm, I'm struggling a lot with how to word this, but comparing for example Stalker and BotW, I feel like one strikes a much better balance between permanent progression and spontaneous gameplay than the other.
So, for reference, in Stalker items can break, but they're not necessarily permanently broken. They stay in your inventory, so you can return to the same offensive potential you had with a gunsmith or a repair kit. In BotW, when your sword is broken it's gone.
If you get into a tussle with a bunch of bandits in Stalker and break your gun, that's essentially like a debuff that you can fix with an inventory item or restore at a hub town. In BotW, your weapons are less like weapons in the way most games use them and more like, say, potions or spell scrolls. You can hoard a few, but unless you have a constant supply of highly potent ones, it's not something you can generally plan around.
Coming back to this after beating the game is pretty interesting. Talismans and their countless effects, miracles, incantations, ashes of war, and spirit ashes, etc. They gave players a lot of unique stuff to find and typically, unless a dungeon gives a spirit ash (I mean really, there's like 3 super good ones that render the rest irrelevant) I usually walk away feeling very rewarded. Your video was very predictive. :)
Subbed. The algorithm works. Got randomly recommended one of your vids and it has changed the way I look at games. Skyrim especially. Been getting more and more into vr and seeing the differences between Skyrim vr and Skyrim flat is quite eye opening. Wouldn't have seen them without your videos.
It helps that FromSoft has pretty large library of weapons and weapon art concepts to fill out their world. Just think of many different weapons there are in DS2 and DS3.
When I saw power stancing was confirmed It made me realize how many assets they really can fall back on, I wonder how many other systems or items we will see.
I really did find while playing the CNT that each dungeon really did have something tucked away that justified exploring it. A unique item, weapon art, weapon, armor or summon was around every corner. They've given themselves so many slots to fill on the character sheet to fill it with essentially and I never felt like the "loot" I was getting was useless even the Noble sorcerer Summon (a summon who legitimately will cower and run from strong enemies) or the bubble spell. Those things add to the world too, they're bad but in a way that is kinda funny and/or brings color to the world. Like you see a chest at the bottom of a lake and take time to get to it and open and I'd much rather find a weird quirky weapon art or even a Sheep Summon than just another iron sword.
Also the dungeons have unique boss fights at the end of them as well so even if the reward is kinda bad, seeing something like the Guardian Hound and knowing that each dungeon has a possibility for similarly weird encounters sticks with you and gives you excitement to see it through.
Never underestimate the sheep, you can never predict their next plot against you
What does CNT stand for?
@@MrQwertysystem Close Network Test
Yeah, honestly a big part of how much I like an open world is how many memorable discoveries and moments there are not just with rewards but facing new challenges, new enemies and bosses, etc. This is something most open world games fail to offer. Some say quantity is not important but I would argue it definitely is in a game that asks for 100 hours of your time.
I think there's a good chance From Software is going to pull this off, looking at their past achievements. I remember spending about 20-30 hours doing the chalice dungeons in Bloodborne which was all optional side content, but just in that alone there were a bunch of completely unique boss fights there.
Personally I loved BoTW's weapon durability system it made fights more interesting because weapons would break and you'd have to scramble to improvise something new. I never avoided fights in that game because the combat is so fun and I never felt like I lost more than I gained. Plus it feels awesome to be able to finally pull out a super strong weapon when you go up against a powerful enemy
You say that, but in every other situation you'd want something tangible and reliable versus something fleeting and unreliable. I could either love you forever, or decide to hate you (or break in this context) because of an arbitrary 'love durability '.
Just another Cult of Nintendoism I suppose.
@@lucamckenn5932 Ok I don't know what your on with the love stuff but what I'm saying is that by being unreliable it makes for more interesting situations because you can't predict how everything will play out. If the weapons were permanent you'd just find one that you like and use that for the whole game and most fights would play out the same but because you have to keep switching weapons you get more variety in the combat and it stops it from becoming repeative.
@@rileyarmytage6142 it's called an analogy
@@rileyarmytage6142 it's called an analogy
@@syrus9748 Yeah and it's a weird analogy that I don't think explains their point. I don't think love and the durability of weapons is a good comparison, I'm not emotionally attached to my digital sword
After playing through the whole game on Switch, I emulated it and re-played through the game with infinite weapon durability. I used MORE weapons and had more fun than I did in the switch version.
So many weapons are not worth picking up and wasting the inventory slot just for a gimmick. But now, I can have lightning weapons, frost weapons, fire weapons, magic rods, boomerangs, plus my trusty rwgular swords and wooden alternatives for thunderstorms.
I can have different types of bows based on their qualities instead of just getting seven copies of guard bows and I can collect all of the random stat upgrades as progression. It turns BotW into a much better experience, imo.
I completely agree. The stupid stans on the other hand...
gamer : "what do you put in the chests?"
devs : "breakable epic legendary mighty weapons and armors"
"The Aqshana greatsword is a symbol of empires long past. Though the kings that made them are gone, their works remain to smite the unlucky foes of new wielders."
13 uses.
I remember TB Skyen had a thread about BotW’s weapon durability system (now deleted because of bad reception) where his view on it was that the knowledge of where powerful weapons were contained was a reward for exploration itself, as an extension of the idea of weapons as resources rather than permanent tools like runes. The other weapons were meant to carry you between the points where you’d get more powerful weapons, and the low durability and large variety of weapons meant you were forced to play through multiple types of weapons and learn the ins and outs of them instead of just relying on one style, which gives you knowledge of which weapons you like using and which ones you want to avoid. That means that once you’ve gotten far enough into the game that you can reliably defeat the enemies holding those weapons, you are rewarded by having knowledge of which weapons you want to kit yourself out with and the exact location of where those weapons are when you need to replace them. While that line of thinking doesn’t necessarily absolve the system of its inelegance, I think it’s an interesting reading of the system that falls in line with BotW’s general focus on exploration
Tbh TBSkyen tends to have more bad takes than good ones. So it isn't really surprising that this one got judged negatively.
That's a pretty good way to put it. One of the reasons why I liked BotW's weapons management so much was because it would often force me out of my comfort zone and force me to think of ways to use different elements of the gameplay to overcome a situation. I have to wonder how the team will handle the sequel since they have to be aware at this point that the amount of people who didn't mind the durability and the amount of people who did is a pretty even split down the middle. Either way, i'm fine with whatever they do with it so long as you still have the same flexibility as the first game.
I think it’s the perfect distillation of the kind of bend-over-backwards logic of a lot of uncritical Nintendo fans. There’s no true variety in BOTW’s weapon selection, there are a tiny number of weapon movesets shared by a massive number of what are essentially weapon skins. So we get link swinging a hand axe the same way he swings a straight sword, the same way he swings a club, the same way he swings a ______.
It’s just a lazily designed system made without regard for how it would affect player engagement with combat.
I think that works well up to the mid-point of the game, and is abysmal by the time you’ve beaten it. Fighting with breakable weapons to earn breakable weapons simply makes people avoid fighting. I do totally get what they were going for and appreciate it.
I don’t really have the perfect answer for the system, but maybe you have… an old master smith… with amnesia? Yeah, sure, and you have to bring them the weapon blueprints that are scattered around the world before they can make a significantly more durable version of each weapon for a price. Perhaps even an extra layer that they can make them unbreakable with some really rare ingredients.
Nah, maybe give Link the ability to craft weapons at forges dotted across the world (like the cooking pots) and you can just throw materials in and see what happens.
Regardless, the main thing I’d change is having things other than weapons and resources in chests, instead you’re using up resources to get something unique-even if that unique thing is an ornament or something.
@@spiraljumper74 I see lots of people complain about the lack of distinct move sets in BotW weapons, but I can't help but think that the durability system would make such variety unbearable. Having a weapon break just as I was getting used to it would be extremely frustrating.
BotW pro tip:
The better your weapons are in your inventory, the better the weapons are that will spawn in the world. Also the harder the enemies will be. Want nothing but royal weapons to show up? Throw away or use up the soldier weapons and even the knight weapons as soon as you can. Replace them with royal weapons. Easiest way to do this is find a Hinox, climb up high, put on all your stealth gear, and glide down onto it while it's sleeping. Grab the weapons off its necklace and then either run away or teleport away. Boom, upgraded with zero effort.
"But I need a hammer and that's a low grade weapon" Either get a better hammer in the Goron areas or just use the Master Sword for that.
Once your weapons are better, you'll also start finding better weapons that also have good features, like upgraded durability, quick shot, upgraded damage, etc.
Weapons in BOTW for me faced the "I'll use the strongest ones last" which is the same issue consumables have always had in video games. Player get to the end of the game and have a stupid amount of high-damage/level consumables but can't use it on anything anymore. Players horde this gear throughout the game saying they'll use it when they need it only to overcome most challenges with using more of the weaker gear. There's no "benefit" to using higher tiered gear which is the issue. You kill things 10% faster only once.
I'm going to play Elden Ring with this music on.
😂😂😂😂😂
U really are tarnished
you can do Gannon's theme when you face each of the lords.
For me the thing with weapon durability is that it's just not what I want from Zelda. I love building up my arsenal of unique weapons and tools that have unique effects on enemies. Instead I just have a row of basically the same weapon that I don't want to use because I don't want to use it and lose it forever.
Well the point is that you need to use different weapons for certain situations. Have a boomerang, leaf, torch etc. You need to be constantly thinking outside the box on how to use as little of your resources as possible instead of brute forcing it
@@thememeilator2633 yeah I'm aware of that. You can do that in other zelda games too. I found I ended up brute forcing it more in botw than other zelda games. Because my weapons will break and I can't repair them I basically never used any of my unique weapons. I just used the master sword and when it was recharging I'd use my cheap easy to replace weapons. In other zelda games I'm constantly experimenting with how the items affect different enemies. It's so fun after a dungeon to explore and see how my new tool counters different enemies.
If the weapons have no value there is no point in spending time hunting for them.
Thats fair, though i would recommend not judging it as a “Zelda game”, and just judging it as a “game”. Good is good, genres and labels are not important.
@@brpadington “value” is entirely subjective.
Breath of the Wild's answer to the problem was to create another problem. Elden Ring's answer was to solve the problem with stuff the player actually wants and needs.
Realistically how “rewarding” is it to receive the same weapon when it’s a consumable. Especially when you’ve already received said same weapon multiple times by just fighting jobber enemies and other cheats.
I was always excited when getting a half decent weapon (or many other things) as a reward in BOTW at any point in the game. But in ER, unless it's a high level smithing stone I just don't care what it gives me.
It's not a knock on ER, it's the better game imo, but that's because it's held up by other things like it's combat and engagement. I do wish it rewarded or encouraged variety in some way though, rather it falls into the old trick of rewarding vertical growth thus discouraging horizontal.
For me, it was always rewards because it was something I ALWAYS used.
@@zSanityz Have you tried trying something new? you played something that didn't have the Funnytendo seal of approval, so you're not incapable you're just ignorant to your own lack of creativity. Reminds me of someone from IGN who complained that the Claymore is the only good weapon and said From Soft should have a system like botw that _forces_ you to do that.
Nintendo: we force you to have fun. Buy the Switch and it's shitty emulator.
Your insight into game design is always impeccable. I never really thought about the “why” these systems exist as they do but it makes perfect sense the way you explain it.
Plot twist: Zullie IS Miyazaki.
@@mitchelltriggs7223 AND Aonuma. They were the same person all along!
Check out Game Maker's Toolkit if you're interested in game design/philosophy, I think he even spoke about the Zelda system.
@@mitchelltriggs7223 Unlikely, there is not enough reused content :p
You know, while it was still at the BotW part, I was thinking, "Why not have weapon *upgrades* instead of tons of weapons that can degrade?" Interesting to see that Elden Ring will go that route. Dark Souls already did, kind of - you found lots of weapons (and armour), of course, but you also found materials to make the weapons/armour stronger, or change the type of damage they did (fire, divine, etc). I'm pretty excited for Elden Ring - yours are about the only videos I've been watching about it, because you focus on mechanics and behind-the-scenes stuff, instead of story and lore, which I generally prefer to go in blind for.
That works, but it can be a pain when balancing the world. Upgrading weapons means you can get stronger than the base best weapon can make you, which means that some challenges in the world will be easier. Then, you'd have to make some areas more difficult, which would mean more of the world would be restricted by a difficulty wall, limiting free exploration. It's totally possible to make it work, but little changes like this influence many other systems in a game, sometimes going against your vision of the game (maybe Nintendo had rather made the exploration as free as possible and not limit it behind difficulty, instead of delivering a better weapon system. It's a tough thing to balance.
@@SirZelean they did have a difficulty wall: the guardians. And they already implemented difficulty scaling too.
@@vyor8837 I didn't say they didn't. I meant it would have needed to be more pronounced. Even though there are difficult areas, you can manage them with bad equipment if you are skilled and ingenious enough. That would be to a significantly lesser extent if you made things more difficult.
In any case, that's totally missing my point. That was just an arbitrary example of how you can't just create any idea and shove it into a game without any consequences. Everything affects everything, and everything was decided for a reason. It's not really as simple as having a better idea. Sometimes you might even have a better idea, but that would kill other aspects of the game you aren't willing to give up on, so you have to stick to a worse idea.
@@SirZelean are you saying you can't beat dark souls with weak weapons?
@@vyor8837 ...
No, I'm not.
I think my issue with BOTWs version is all the weapons have pretty bad durability. An ability to repair a heavily damaged weapon would've been cool. Make it expensive so that the player really thinks about which weapon he is using it on.
Also the master sword should never have a cool down period.
Another way to handle it without having to add animations or new assets would be to add a crafting/repair/upgrade system, letting raw materials be used to duplicate items you've found before, octo jelly could function as a repair kit for all weapons, there could be a blacksmith of some kind that could apply multiple modifiers to weapons (increasing cost of both rupees and materials with each modifier added) and after weapon breakage still have the choice of dropping or repairing instead of exploding into a million pieces. Materials used to upgrade and repair equipment could provide meaningful loot without having the "this is too valuable to ever use" effect on rare items.
Also the champion weapons could have an auto regen feature similar to the master sword (and maybe elemental affects correlating with their associated champion abilities) or have more unique move sets on the champion weapons to set them apart and make them worth using.
Yeah the champion weapons really kind of lose their meaning when they shatter and you go back to town and find out "oh we'll just make you a new one."
Really? You're gonna make me a new one of Mipha's very own spear? Sure you will. It was the stats, after all, that mattered. I'm sure.
I think that's one of the things BotW may have been solving, but it's also that open world games can have you approaching problems with the same strategy forever (silenced sniper rifle every camp)
It forces you to think on your toes an use the environment more
"Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."
@@Lysander4 yeah that still happens to BotW
By the end of the game you can get all your weapons in high supply anyway, but it holds it off for a while
If a player wants to do something else, they will. If they like sniping, they’ll do that. Actual freedom of choice means choosing to do something different. If a player likes laming it out, that’s on them. When devs try to solve that by fiat, we get the shitty system from BotW that doesn’t actually add variety anyway because there are like three weapon movesets for dozens and dozens of weapons.
@@spiraljumper74 I don't think that's the case for all of us. I don't like making up my own challenges in games, it feels like I'm not playing the game properly. I try to go for the most optimal thing as a means of solving it, and a lot of open world games have insanely simple solutions that you can apply everywhere and don't give you any incentive to not do that.
@@spiraljumper74 well most people will always prefer the most efficient way. Anybody who designs games knows that. I love to chose to chose weapons and armor based on visuals, but i really can't resist if something is much better than what i have.. so mechanics like these are actually a blessing for people like me, because even the most OP items are not permanent. Another way to tackle this would be the weight system of equipment in the souls games, because it gives way more utility to all the "non OP" gear. The point is, if you just expect players to do things on their own without any motivation for it, chances are players are gonna miss what's fun in the game. You can do that sometimes, but not in a game who caters to a large audience
This is sort of related but the more I played of BoTW the more I realised I didn't like the mini dungeons. You knew what the reward was before you even entered, and they were essentially filler content. It wasn't a 10/10 game like I thought when I first started playing, still great though.
Elden ring looks like it's gonna give me some of that feeling I got from OoT when I got a new item, and the dungeons i've seen so far seem more varied than the mini ones from BoTW which I'm excited about
I liked the shrines quite a bit even if the reward was known. The interesting part for me was the shrine itself, and the long-term goal of getting more powerful was a side benefit. That being said, there were a few too many test of strength shrines. The reward shrines were fine because the challenge is getting to the shrine.
I was longing for traditional Zelda dungeons while playing BotW, though. I hope BotW2 has some of those.
@@ShadianVise
Yeah the "dungeons" in the beasts were not great. Hopefully they go for a majora's mask vibe in 2 and also add some proper dungeons
The shrines being the most common reward for exploration was by far the most exasperating element of the game for me. Every time I thought I found an interesting discovery, or an actual substantive sidequest, a mystery, or a crumb of narrative, what was it? Another fucking shrine. And then they're neither fun (imo) or challenging. Drove me absolutely up the wall.
@@paracetamolgirl7820 Exactly
"How does From Soft answer the chest problem?"
- *Ateria leaf*
- *Mushroom*
Personally, I can appreciate BotW’s concept of having one item that does a relatively simple thing, but it’s how it flows with other items at your disposal and the environment where it gets interesting. It feels really satisfying finding a more efficient way to approach your fights like taking advantage of Stasis+, parrying a Remote Bomb to send enemies flying, or using Cryonis or some other vantage point to create a bullet time on enemies. Champion abilities add more to this by encouraging you to experiment with the ways you can use them for adventuring as well as combat. Durability was never an issue for me, even for my first play through back in 2017, but I can definitely see how it would frustrate some people given how you can experience the game in any order. The only thing I could ask for is more enemy variety, which looks like will be issued in the sequel 🤞. As for Eldin Ring, I haven’t played much of it, but it’s a very beautiful game and a I had a lot of moments where I’d see something far off and say “yeah, I want to go there.” Both great games without a doubt but BotW will always have a special place in my heart.
Weapon durability was easily the *WORST* thing about BotW for me. You could find an AWESOME flame sword that was hidden away, and just as you start to celebrate what you found, you remember that it will break in 30 swings, with no way to fix it, and suddenly all that excitement dissolves instantly.
That is tragic.
Personally I would have been fine with every chest just being filled with a Shotel or a firekeeper soul, but I suppose that would not be seen as ideal for everyone.
Heh.
Don’t forget some glorious gleaming sunlight medallions!!!
Another thing that I think definitely helps is that there really aren't that many chests in elden ring, most equipment is dropped from enemies in the world, which somehow makes the chest loot and most of the random drops both feel more rewarding.
The weapon durability thing was the reason my first priority in BOTW was getting the master sword. At least it will regenerate after a while.
Currently working on clearing the master trials, so that I can get that boost to its durability.
The best weapon in BOTW is the one that halway invalidates the main mechanic of weapons.
But really, what they could do instead is to give weapons randomly generated parameters, as that is a quick and dirty way to make your loot less generic. Even better if they could implement certain unique parameters like Diablo's legendary weapons.
I honestly expected I'd hate the durability system in BotW at first, but after playing that game for a bit and getting a feel for how frequently and where you tend to find certain weapons, it ended up clicking really well for me and had me use all weapon types all the time. The way BotW has you improvising on the fly against groups of enemies is a type of encounter design I hadn't seen before and haven't seen since, at least not to that degree.
It's all fun and games until you have to fight a lynel and you break all your weapons
@@Baka_Mop you don't "have to" fight a lynel
I think this ashes of war, or just in general, options to augment existing armor, is a great system, and I intend to use it as a Dungeon Master as well.
I want to reward players, but I can only give out so much gold and magic items before they all have artifacts out the wazoo
Interesting idea, but that is basically giving them magix items that they have to choose before they might come to a situation where A is useful and B is not, although it might spice it up just enough
@@kayas7574 Kinda where I'm at with it. It's an extra attribute to add to one of your already magic weapons
This was honestly a good video that I didn't know I needed to watch but grateful I did. Just added alittle perspective to the gaming world that I enjoy knowing. Thank you!
your videos are so pleasant to watch! im trying to avoid elden ring spoilers and spoilers to the other games i havent played so i cant watch all of your videos, but they are always such a treat c:
The questions that immediately spring to my mind are:
-will the Ashes be permanent alterations to weapons or interchangeable?
-if they are permanent, can you get multiple copies for multiple weapons?
-do they have different effects on different weapon types?
-will they have unique interactions with enemies/elements/upgrades/npcs/etc?
Almost every video leaves me more hungry to get my hands on the full game.
I am aware that they don't have different effects on different weapon types because they only work on a specific weapon type typically.
They're interchangeable.
I got multiple copies of Determination, but I also started with one as Enchanted Knight.
They should be the same on different weapon types, from what I saw.
No way of knowing yet on the last one.
From what I've seen in the Elden Rinf Test Videos...
The Ashes of War are interchangeable and are not permanently locked to a weapon. However, Elemental Combination and Elemental Interactions is up in the air... Maybe it might exist but given Dark Souls 3 and Sekiro. Maybe not, outside of burning grass.
But you can swap non exclusive Weapon Arts between ALL weapons which are not Ranged X Melee. Maybe even Staffs and Chimes etc. can swap WR with Melee too???
And Power Stance is back without Stat Attribute restrictions like Dark Souls 2.
(All is subject to change, though.)
I honestly don't know why i didn't mind the durability i BoTW, but when i got the Master Sword i almost exclusively used that.
my biggest gripe with the game is that there is never any REAL incentive to explore. you always know what you're gonna get, spirit orbs... every time. That along with there not being any real dungeons or temples is unfortunate. i hope that in the second one they really go all-in and make alot of armour, weapons and other thing that makes the world more interesting to explore.
I also feel like they could've made more cool "rare" weapons with high durability that you can buy back when they break or something.
A lot of payoffs in botw aren't tangible rewards. There's no reward as such for climbing the tallest mountain in Hyrule other than climbing it.
@@pramitpratimdas8198 yeah. They should make it so you can upgrade and/or craft weapons, that'll at least improve exploration somewhat.
If they don't want to change it up too much, at least put in some weapon skins or something to find, like in Ghost of Tsushima.
@@lillewilleman doesn't seem like a good idea when weapons break so easily. Unless you want them as a decorative item?
I can't express how much an improvement it is to switch your infusions on the spot rather than fast travelling to the Hub to do it
I've never really minded the weapon durability much in Botw, but I do certainly hope they refine it for the second game, and it's quite simple; just add repair and crafting/upgrades to them. Let players be able to fix busted weapons, augment them with magic or buff, and thusly give more purpose to the mountains of items that are collected.
you know the weapon durability exist for you not to only use one weapon right ? if not the master sword wouldnt run out of energy, this video isn't that good at explaining botw
@@fieldkaiju
I never said anything about using just one weapon all the time, just being able to get a little more life out of them, and give some purpose to all the crap Link carries like resources that could easily be used for repairs.
@@fieldkaiju I'm the sort of person who gets emotionally attached to my equipment. As a result, I beat ganon using crappy expendable gear while my most prized swords sat happily in my house. I think the gameplay loop of replacing broken weapons is stupid.
@@Darkman9000 if you can just repair them then whats the point of collecting new weapons
@@HamsterPants522 emotionally attached?
My favorite part of BOTW was finding a shrine, being made to fight the same 'guardian' enemy I would have to fight at least 30 times, and being rewarded with an orb that equated to 1/40th of what I'd need to max my stamina.
fr, people raved on about how cool it was that there was always shrines to find, but to me it was always just like, i already know exactly what my reward will be, theres no mystery, why should i even care? not like the shrine "puzzles" ever felt rewarding to solve themselves
Those shrines also gave you one chest with a good item and 2-3 powerful guardian weapons from the defeated enemy.
This was a surprisingly insightful dive into open world game design, Zullie. I’d love some more development/game design-based videos. I think you have some interesting things to say!
It's something I've thought about doing a bit, but a lot of it might veer out of Souls territory.
@@ZullietheWitch i can’t speak for everybody, of course, but i’m more than down to hear (read?) what you have to say even if it’s not From-related. Limiting yourself like that might do you a disservice, videogames are so vast! and your insights are well thought out and substantial. I understand the need to cater to a pre-established audience, but, if you ever decide to take the risk? Know that i’ll stick around, at least. Thanks for the content Zuuuullie
Well, might as well do it, every now and then. You may help some aspiring developers and designers out there, Zullie ^^
Botw was originally conceptualized to be similar to camping/pioneering/living off the land. Nintendo really wanted rhe player to focus on what the land/setting itself had to offer. They wanted players constantly looking around saying, what in this area looks cool? What should I approach, grab, investigate? I think finding weapons HAD to be part of that. Think of the boat oars buried upright in the sand, or mops at stables. That's a really unique way to INTRODUCE looking for weapons. But it then requires that the player needs to want to look for weapons, so weapons need to be impermanent etc. I agree with others that keeping durability was important, but introducing repair and improvement mechanics that used up resources would have improved matters.
It's certainly helped by the fact that elden ring just has a huge variety of unique weapons and armor to be found too
Which you can't use because of the requirements. I don't like respecting my stat just to test something you don't know if you gonna like it
@@radnetro Which is exactly what the respeccing and NG+ mechanics are for..
you can boost your stats with items very easily, even on a no level run you can use nearly all the weapons in the game, you dont need to respec to see how a weapon performs
I know Zelda games aren't really one for an upgrade system, most of what you get is for a specific purpose and I think they backed themselves into a corner when faced with something that had an RPG element to it.
That said, I really think this could have been better handled, if we had something that could have just increased the durability on weapons like a whetstone, or even have a blacksmith repair weapons at the point of breaking would have made things a lot more bearable and not so much resource management.
Hell, even something like a permanent strength boost, so we don't waste half of our Great Flameblade's durability fighting a moblin.
Zelda has upgrade systems for a long time. Swords, bows, bombs, etc.
@@YTPrule they've been upgrading since the beginning. Better sword, better arrows, better quiver
You can upgrade the armor in BotW though.
I’m personally a fan of Razbuten’s idea which is to have some kind of resource used for upgrades that you can only get from broken weapons so breaking weapons feels more rewarding than it currently does
I loved how cinematic the breath of the wild section was! Excellent camera work, as always, Zullie. And excellent points too -- I started using exclusively the Master Sword and specific weapons I farmed from Lynels for their high damage modifiers and durability. Never saw a reason to use any other weapons aside from elemental ones.
Static weapon assets are incredibly simple to make, costing little relative time. They have no moving parts, tend to be able to be canabalized from like-models, and can usually be built with primitive shapes, or nearly primitive ones, unless you're making bizarre final fantasy weapons, which Zelda avoids. The prime issue botw faced was not a matter of assets. It was a matter of game mechanics. If every weapon was better than the last, power would spiral out of control and the variance between hard to reach and easy to reach chests wouldn't matter. If chests remained static, but power was the sole determinate of the chest's value, nobody would look for the weaker ones. The weapon durability system encouraged continual exploration, which was the central focus of the game. The big downfall of it was in making enemies too beefy for the weapons- a problem they leaned in to in service to their central aim, but one they were rightly criticized for.
I liked quite a bit about Zelda’s system, as it led to creativity and experimentation, with tense moments, but that wore out in late game when you’re just throwing away powerful weapons for another or are more easily able to avoid combat.
I think they should do a dual approach. Once you get a weapon it’s registered in your Sheikah slate. You can then go to designated locations across the map to reforge that weapon with weapon parts. Weapon parts are a blanket resource you get whenever your weapon breaks, but may also be available for purchase at certain places. Weak weapons cost less the reforge, but give few weapon parts when breaking. Strong weapons cost a lot, but give more weapon parts.
This way you’re always getting something when you engage in combat, even if a weapon breaks.
Yeah if the system worked like this I'd have loved the heck out of it like man they could of made some really awesome weapons to be usable so no dy just guns for the best weapon use only that one when you could just use those special elemental weapons on the right enemies without having to waste it when you may need it later for example using the cold blades in the gerudo desert to avoid the heat
i never had a moment where i was running out of weapons while playing botw, it was quite the opposite most of the time where i had to throw the worst weapons i had away. Lets also not forget that alot of the chests in botw have other types of resources not just weapons in them.
Agreed. Really, the only issues I have with the system is, one, that I think the game should automatically give another weapon from your inventory as soon as one breaks, since it can be a little annoying and rhythm-breaking to go to the menu to get another. And two, give the player an option to fix broken/damaged weapons. But it needs to be costly to do so, to not make players play it too safe. I do think it is a bit disheartening to grind for the most amazing Savage Lynel Crusher with the best bonus, just to know it'll break eventually. I think the advantages of the system outweigh the problems, but it can be improved.
@@GreatSpaceToaster fixing weapons would be a great addition yeah, you should call shigeru about it
I think not running out weapons an issue too because it defeats the whole purpose of having weapons as a resource. If the player essentially has infinite resources anyways then why have durability in the first place?
@@samliyin if u are avoiding combat it's possible to run it to this issue op is talking about. Or if u r using different ways to down enemies
Honestly it kind of reminds me of the dungeon system in Bloodborne, there’s so many valuable items in those dungeons the lower you go that either help you open up other dungeons (like certain hard to find materials like red jelly), better or different versions of a weapon that can only be found there (uncanny saw cleaver), and the upgrade materials for your weapons that are hard to find in the base game (blood chunks, blood rocks, cursed blood gems). Now that they’ve added ashes of war and it’s in open world, I can’t imagine all the hours I’m gonna spend just riding around like a maniac trying to find everything the game has to offer lol
I love how Tears of the Kingdom fixed this. Fuse is such an amazing ability for improving gear. A Silver Boko horn fused to basically any weapon can kill five or so Silver Bokos, ensuring you're always profiting on weapons if you actually engage in combat. The ability to make a new good weapon out of anything made breaking one a lot less frustrating. Brilliant!
I actually quite liked the durability system for BotW. The combat would grow dull without it.
Players who want infinite or much higher durability would ironically grow bored of swinging the same weapon around after a while. If every weapon is transitory and limited, they each feel a little more special and valuable, especially the elemental weapons.
Another excellent video Zullie! You're one of my favorite content creators.
I'm definitely looking forward to Elden Ring, and I'm hoping BotW 2 changes the weapon durability.
I think the limited durability on BoTW fits perfectly with the "wild" thematic. This link is the hero of the wild, he adapts to avery environment and battle so you must use what you have at the moment and some times improvise to overcome any obstacle.
have you ever used a piece of tableware?
did it break after 13 uses?
It somehow simultaneously felt like weapons broke too easily and that I always had no room for more weapons. Weapons after combat were nice, since you would rarely go through an entire combat (multiple weak enemies or few strong enemies) and still have the weapon you started with, but weapons while exploring and while in shrines often requires me to drop a partially used weapon for one with more durability.
It did also occasionally discourage fights (like you said, weapons are resources) because as part of the opportunity cost of the fight, you have to factor in the weapons you will lose and gain from the encounter.
Personally my only problem with Botw was that I had too many good weapons to choose from. After 30 minutes of gameplay, I never ran out of weapons. Mostly I just had to discard older ones, because I found better ones. Then I just expanded my weapon inventory to maximum.
This finally puts why I had such a tough time with botw into words. I love the combat in that game (I'm pretty combat-focused in general), and the durability system discouraging combat meant that a major reason why I would enjoy the game is gone (or at least drastically reduced). Seeking out powerful enemies and challenging myself in combat is a big part of my enjoyment in more open-ended RPGs; I love running to an enemy I shouldn't be able to realistically take down yet, overcoming that challenge, and being rewarded with some crazy ahead-of-the-curve reward that lets me flex on the cannon fodder enemies as a reward for my victory. But when every encounter is essentially just a resource trade-off, nothing I pick up really matters, and so the reward incentive to take on challenging encounters or optional fights disappears. Every cool weapon I obtain is just a metaphorical Phoenix Down that I'm too afraid to actually use unless it's absolutely necessary.
I never ran out of weapons in my BotW playthrough. When I reached the end game, I just farmed Lionels until I was happy, then was completely free to do whatever I wanted. Lionels are a lot of fun to fight and track down too.
farming is never a good solution. i literally just want a basic weapon that doesn't explode in 10 hits.
I think a crucial part of what makes Elden Ring's loot system successful is that a weapon is not just a bonking stick, it has another purpose. It's almost always part of the story. So even if you're running a Strength build and get a weapon for a mage, it can be a rewarding find even though you can't use it.
Breath of the Wild though.....it did so many things wrong. The weapon thing was just the most visible part of the iceberg.
I never thought of easy breakable weapons as a problem, let alone the worst of all. It gives real meaning to your choices when you engage a fight or not.
My issue of choice in the game was lack enemy variety with no shadow of a doubt, and that is really reducing any of your tactical abilities
I really hope Nintendo listened to criticisms for BotW and fixed them for the sequel. I want a game with more story, better rewards for exploration, and a proper difficulty curve. None of that every reward is a shrine and a breakable item or a wonderfully difficult early game, but a piss easy mid to late game stuff.
Spread out those Sheikah runes (Which they might do with the fancy new arm and abilities they showcased) and maybe add some more depth to combat. Not so much that it loses the accessibility it has, but definitely reward exploration with fun challenges and the like.
I feel like they could have solved the entire durability issue literally just by making the champion weapons unbreakable
But you can rebuild them, that is why. Plus they would just fall into the why use something that breaks when you can use an unbreakable sword, hammer, bow, spear and shield. It would invalidate the very purpose of why the durability is there
@@thememeilator2633 Sure you *can* rebuild them but they take some pretty rare materials to do so and imo from a story perspective it kinda sucks that these weapons that belonged to supposedly the most capable warriors in the land (and some of Link's closest friends) are so easily broken and replaced.
As for the rest, I strongly disagree.
The main reason I think this would work is that none of the champion's gear is the strongest in its class (with the exception of the hylian shield which is found in the final dungeon), not even the master sword. It would be much tougher to face the hardest parts of the game with only these weapons than with stronger gear. On top of that none of these weapons inherently have elemental damage and I don't believe arrows invalidate that point because they're expensive and you can already just fire those from even a basic boko bow. I could see an argument for nerfing champion gear a touch if it was to be unbreakable but even without that there is still plenty of reason to seek out the consumable weapons. In fact with players no longer having to worry about the trade not being worth it I would argue there is even more incentive to take the challenges necessary to get better gear. Obviously this wouldn't completely get rid of the "too good to use" syndrome (I would know, I've got that shit bad) but I'm confident that it would most likely mitigate it.
@@tank7013 i personally would like the champion weapons to have a recharge system like the master sword does, maybe as long as the champion abilities take since you have to think they are fairly strong weapons and it would make sense from a story perspective, the spirits of the champions could be repairing them and it just takes longer then the master sword because the energy that the master sword has is far more powerful then the champions, if we made them unbreakable then we would have to make the master sword unbreakable too since it is basically links "champion weapon" for lack of a better term.
just so you know i have no ill will towards you and just wish to engage in a bit of debate.
@@thememeilator2633 Hmm... Yea. Yea I could see that as a pretty good compromise. Although even then I still do believe that the "final" master sword (as in post master trials) should be unbreakable as the ultimate reward for completing the toughest challenge in the game. Especially since at that point you've unlocked its full power and the story justification for it "breaking" is actually gone.
Oh and uh, no worries. I didn't get any sense of hostility from you at all
@@tank7013 thank you, but i definitely think that the full power master sword should be unbreakable too. I actually thought it was for a bit since i cleared out a lot of monster camps with it before it even said it was damaged, but i think one main reason why it should be unbreakable is because we've used it in the past as other links at full and in Wind Waker unpowered completely without breaking once.
Weapon durability also allows them to add a secondary currency in botw, korok seeds. It allows them too introduce small puzzles into the environment for players to find which makes exploration meaningful.
See my problem with the Clorox seeds is that they don't feel like a meaningful reward. I feel that after upgrade like say 10 of my slots for each one I don't really have much use for them so the 450 scattered around the world just becoming useless collectibles. They could have had secondary or tertiary uses like upgrading actual weapons or maybe trading in for something I don't know but they just felt useless after a while why collect them all you don't need them any weapons that are going to break
@@TimothyGod you aren’t intended to collect every korok seed, that’s why the reward for collecting all of them is literal poop. There are so many because different players take different paths and the devs wanted everyone to have equal opportunities to find them
@@colbyjackcheeser the virgin let everyone find everything vs the chad hide everything behind 50 invisible walls
@@colbyjackcheeser that's not the focus of my point. It's that, BECAUSE they aren't worth it, the world is filled with even less. They are the most abundant collectables, and they aren't worth for much. Weapons break to fast so finding one isn't a huge reward, it's either gonna break, or stay in your inventory forever. The shrines give all the same thing, you know as soon as you see one the reward is a thing for health or stamina (which isn't a bad thing, but there's isn't surprise, puzzle aside). And gear inside which will break, armour is great cause it doesn't break. But my point is the world is empty, but Elden ring has weapons that remain and have loads of potential, smaller rewards like runes aren't bad as those are everything. Armour, item crafting stuff. Yea botw has food which is a really cool idea, I think it should stay, but maybe add a recipe book for things you've done? Just cause there's so much. But otherwise I loved it.
I personally like the Gatcha approach wherein you have a bunch of the same weapons lying around in all sorts of different places, but collecting the same weapon can upgrade the base power of that weapon. So let's say you get a royal claymore that might start out at 15 might but increase to 40 as you collect each version of it. This way you don't have to vary up the loot pool as much and your weapons still have purpose