CECILY NEVILLE Duchess of York | The woman who survived the Wars of the Roses | The mother of Kings
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- Опубликовано: 3 фев 2022
- CECILY NEVILLE, Duchess of York was a Plantagenet matriarch, the mother of Kings Edward IV and Richard III and the woman who survived the Wars of the Roses from start to finish, living long enough to see her descendants take the ultimate power, only to lose it three times over, culminating in the conquest of England by Henry Tudor and the end of the Plantagenet dynasty. Indeed the story of her sons and her tragic grandsons, the Princes in the Tower, is an abject lesson not just in how to take a throne, but in how to lose a throne and in what it was like to be monarch in 15th century England when whoever wore the crown was constantly a King under threat. In this documentary from History Calling, we’ll look at roughly the first half of the life of Cecily Neville, including her birth, her child marriage to Richard, Duke of York and the difficulties they had in having children before their ultimately large family arrived. The video will cover the Duchess’s time in France and Ireland, her relationship with Queen Margaret of Anjou, the wife of Henry VI, her dramatic capture after the Battle of Ludford Bridge and finally her reaction to the disaster which befell her family at the end of 1460 when her husband and second son, Edmund, Earl of Rutland, were slain at the Battle of Wakefield. If you’ve ever wondered, what were the Wars of the Roses (or indeed what was the Cousins’ War, which another name given to this conflict), Cecily’s story is an excellent entry point into this complicated saga and this video will also cover many of the early events in this long-running conflict. This is the first entry in a series on the women of the Wars of the Roses.
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BUY OR RENT:
Britain’s Bloody Crown Presented by Dan Jones (2016) [Documentary covering the Wars of the Roses. Historically accurate] amzn.to/2TPep8i (US LINK)
The White Queen (2013). [Depicts the story of the Wars of the Roses from Elizabeth Woodville’s point of view. Gets the broad strokes of history correct, but definitely not completely accurate] amzn.to/3dm7kBL (UK LINK) OR amzn.to/2VcbQO5 (US LINK)
The White Princess (2018). [Covers the marriage of Henry Tudor to Elizabeth of York. Again, gets the broad strokes of history correct, but definitely needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.] amzn.to/3ftrmNt (UK LINK) OR amzn.to/3C1NLdl (US LINK)
The King in the Carpark (2013). Documentary about the discovery of Richard III’s skeleton in 2012. amzn.to/3C0loMF (UK LINK)
READ MORE:
J. L. Laynesmith, Cecily Duchess of York (Bloomsbury, 2017) amzn.to/3EjW4Bp (UK LINK) OR amzn.to/33QBb4h (US LINK)
Amy Licence, Cecily Neville: Mother of Kings (Amberley, 2015) amzn.to/3ppivke (UK LINK) OR amzn.to/3FDHINu (US LINK)
Michael Hicks, The Wars of the Roses (Yale, 2012) amzn.to/33O5w3A (UK Link) or (US Link) amzn.to/3FZrZaV
Phillipa Gregory, The Red Queen (2011). Fictionalised account of the Wars of the Roses told from Lady Margaret Beaufort’s point of view. Read for fun, but definitely don’t get your history from this. amzn.to/3rgXYfz (UK LINK) OR amzn.to/2V8IQa3 (US LINK)
Phillipa Gregory, The White Queen (2011). Fictionalised account of the Wars of the Roses told from Elizabeth Woodville’s point of view. Read for fun, but definitely don’t get your history from this. amzn.to/2PlPztQ (UK LINK) OR amzn.to/37bO9YK (US LINK)
THUMBNAIL: Cecily Duchess of York, Horae ad usum Parisiensem, 1401-1500. Available at gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv... and on Wikimedia Commons (detail)
NB: Links above may be affiliate links. This means if you make a purchase through one of these links, I earn a small commission. It in no way affects the price you pay.
Creative Commons licenses used see creativecommons.org/licenses/
Do you think Richard and Cecily should have been King and Queen of England? Let me know below and check out my PATREON site for extra perks at www.patreon.com/historycalling Remember to SUBSCRIBE and check out the DESCRIPTION BOX for more sources on Cecily's life too.
At that point, no. It might have prevented the bloodshed that came later, which no one could have foreseen at the time, but it might not. After all, we know that many people didn’t accept their son as king so why would they have accepted Richard and Cecily? It might even have set a dangerous precedent.
As I understand it, even the most favourable interpretation of their claim to the throne was only slightly better than Henry VI’s, and Henry VI had been acknowledged as the rightful king before he was incapacitated. There could have been a regency until either Henry VI or his son Edward could rule.
I agree about the precedent. Edward obviously took the throne, but he then faced constant threats on it and of course we know that his son was usurped, then his brother and Henry VII faced attempts to oust him too. Had there not been that precedent of replacing the King in the recent past (plus what happened to Richard II) perhaps later events would have transpired differently.
Once one person usurps, it seems to become fair game.
Just by male preference primogeniture, Richard had the right to be king.
@@lh384 Are you sure? I’ve read that the rules regarding succession were much looser at the time than they are now, particularly when it came to women inheriting or men inheriting via a female relative. I’m not sure how reliable that was though.
Wars of the Roses - the women are often more fascinating than the men - should be an awesome series of vids - ty
Thank you. I hope so too :-)
@@HistoryCalling - Margaret of Anjou deserves 10 videos just for her - it should be great - 🛸👽
Haha, I was thinking 2, but we'll see :-)
@@HistoryCalling - 👍
Completely agree, Philippa Gregory’s books are amazing as they always focus on the female characters and view points 😍
Wars of the Roses was such a rich, layered, and complex conflict that I learn something new every time I see another video.
My love of history started with reading the book “Katherine” (by Anya Seton) as a teen. The book was on the meeting and lives of Katherine Swynford and John of Gaunt. I love hearing you bring the stories alive again - thank you!🇨🇦
Quite a few people have been asking about KS. She's on my list for a video (eventually) :-)
I read that book too, long ago. It was my first introduction to John of Gaunt and Katherine Swynford.
I have always had a love of history, beginning young as my parents brought us to Italy every summer to see our relatives and between relatives, we saw Europe and my live for history began. At 12 I read the book "Nicholas and Alexandra" which really got me into Victorian history and how she, Victoria, changed the scope of Europe through the marriages of her many children and how at times it went well and at times, not and that through her, a carrier of hemophilia, passed that gene onto a couple of daughters (and 1 son who was born with the illness, himself, as only males can get the illness but the women carry the gene...and this son, shockingly, for the 1800s, lived into his late 30's)...and through those daughters onto the granddaughters, including Czarina Alexandra of Russia, (born Princess Alix of Hesse Darmstadt, daughter of Alice of Great Britain who was daughter to Victoria) and how their choosing to hide that Nicholas and Alexandra's son, the Tsarevitch, future emperor, helped to bring on the hatred for that family, after 300 years on the throne....and the public, not knowing how desperate they were to hide this fact and help their son, turned to Rasputin for help, as he was known to be a faith healer but he was a womanizing, drunken monk...but this is another story. Then, and I am sorry for having gone on as i have, we have "Katherine" by Anya Seton, which I read when I found it in a pile of books of a deceased aunt....and loved it and checked it and historically researched it and though a melodrama, it is all true! That story I lived as much for the history as I did for the fictionalizing facts like creating such an interesting character out of Katherine's sister, Phillipa Chaucer. Her brother in law, Chaucer, himself, making John of Gaunt into a dreamy prince soldier adulterer...but who cared? He was a dream! Anyway, I am as attached to that book now as i was 20 years ago when I found it and I bought it on my Kindle so I can have it forever and every now and then I look on RUclips for new videos about her...and all these characters from Cicily Neville to the Tudors to Queen Elizabeth II, all come from her "union" with John of Gaunt. Even Catherine of Aragon was a direct descendent of John's, but through his 2nd wife, Costanza of Castille. Anyone, nice to share with someone about a book known to be melodrama but accurate. Often I see the question asked who do I see, if they made a film of the book, in all the roles. I know who I see playing him or her....you? Bye! Sorry for going on so long.
@@happyexpat3744 I’ve held on to Katherine as well so I can re-read again too. It is one of my favourites. I have been reading about Czar Nicolas and his family. That’s a hard story to get through, very tragic. Have you read the “Josephine B Trilogy” about Josephine Bonaparte’s life? That is another one I kept - I couldn’t put that one down either. The French Revolution I found really interesting. I enjoyed your reply to my comment!
@@westcoastgirl5639 Thank you. No, I haven't read about the Empire phase in French history, except how it was tied to other royal houses in Europe. On that note, and as it is Sunday, I won't write any further.. Have a nice day.
i can get so lost (in a good way lol) with this time period. i always find it funny how it seems almost every single person is related to john of gaunt🤣
I know. They pretty much all were! :-)
so crazy!
You delivered as always! The York and Plantagenet family tree is so complex and have to go back a few times to really get it and even then it’s like, “umm I think I got it!” You did a great job on the diagrams and explaining the bloodlines I know that had to have been a challenge! So much detail and thorough, I look forward to next Friday for part 2! Keep up the good work!
Thank you. The family trees were indeed a bit of a nightmare to put together. I spent hours trying to figure out who to include and who to cut and trying to make sure they were spaced out enough that the text boxes weren't going to overlap. I then had the whole video uploaded to YT and prescheduled to go live when I discovered I'd left Cecily's first born son off one of the trees. I could have screamed/cried. I had to fix it, re-render the whole video and upload it all over again :-(
@@HistoryCalling oh wow!! Good catch! Even if you did I wouldn’t have held it against you lol!
I always have to go back to the family 👪 tree 🌳 several times ⏲ when reading 📚 about the Wars of the Roses 🌹 just to keep everyone straight. Like you, I think I've got it then I realize I don't! Back to the tree 🌳 I go!
@@dianetheisen8664 oh same same!!
@@Mike-sf8wb LOL
One thing about Cecily is that thanks to Shakespear's plays on the Wars of the Roses, she has been portrayed by the best actresses of Britain. At the top of my head there's Maggie Smith (who stopped aging after the 90s 🤣) in Ian McKellan's 'Richard the Third' and Judith Dench in BBC's "The Hollow Crown" opposite Benedict Cumberbatch as Richard. I just wonder how she felt having her own son accuse her of having an affair so that his older bro can be declared a bastard. That is such a low blow 🤨
Yes, she has really lucked out in the actresses she's had to tell her story.
Which source did William Shakespeare use for some of his history plays? Amongst them and a major source was Polydore Vergil.
Who did Polydore Vergil work for?
It wasn't Cecily, it was someone much more astute. Can you guess :-)))) Sure you can! Who was head and shoulders above Cecily?
Who was a political player bar-none, the spin-doctor of all spin-doctors and made sure anyone following would have her version, the Lancastrian version, and the House of York, all of it, would be seen through HER prism?
Lady Margaret Beaufort of course, who picked up the red rose mantle after Queen Margaret.
Part of Lady Margaret's circle was a priest name Christopher Urswick, born a Lancastrian in Furness. He was the go-between between her and her son in exile but was encouraged by her to befriend Vergil.
Two foreigners, both Italian, the other being Mancini, were known to be writing the official histories.
Urswick gave Vergil chapter and verse what Lady Margaret told him. Vergil took it like mother's milk.
Vergil was instrumental to Lady Margaret, kind of a modern day press secretary and became a fixture himself of her court by the time her son had succeeded to the throne.
The name of the actresses you name are exactly as you say and you could go back to the 60's on black and white tv with Dame Peggy Ashcroft, though not playing Cecily.
This period is particularly blessed in having possibly the greatest dramatist of all time, chronicle it. His source was mainly that which Lady Margaret had intended it to be all along.
@@HistoryCalling Yorkist apologists and Ricardians cry foul craven that they are wrongly represented by history.
To a sense they are right but who's faults that!!!!!
If Lady Cecily had more political acumen, instead of practicing her needlework in Baynard's Castle she would have captured the narrative. In the event she left the field open to Lady Margaret. Lady Margaret had the imagination and the drive.
Thank you History Calling enjoyed this. Plantagenet history is certainly complicated but I do know there were some amazing women Cecily being one. Looking forward to learning more as the series goes on.
Thank you. Yes, it is really complex. That's part of the reason I held off doing a series on it for a while in fact, as it's not something I already had a great background knowledge of, so it's a lot more work than videos on (for example) the Tudors.
I need a flow chart for every person/family involved in the War of the roses 🤣 amazing as always HC! Appreciate all the hard work that goes in ur videos 🙌👸
I am right there with you. I kept having to go back and double check who people were and it doesn't help that so many of them were called Richard, Edward or Henry. :-) Thanks for watching and supporting.
As the Cousins War (it was only named The Wars of the Roses by Sir Walter Scott centuries later) is of great interests to me I did try walking someone through the 30 years and 15 battles. It might have been made easier if 15th century parents had been more inventive when naming their sons. There are so many Richards, Henrys, Edwards, Edmunds etc it does get a bit confusing. Especially when sons inherited not only titles but also Christian names from their fathers.
Nor does it help that not even the Neville family could decide which side they were on from one day to the next. Some were Lancastrian and some Yorkists - until it was in their interests to change allegiance, which occurred frequently. And they weren’t the only family split between which faction to support.
Despite all that it is a fascinating period of English history - if you can get your head round it. But once you do it’s intriguing.
But one detail which can’t be overlooked is that Cecile Neville became a femme sole - which meant that, in exchange for a vow of celibacy, she could deal with her own properties and bring her own legal cases. She was one formidable lady and no matter what Henry VII thought of her youngest son he knew better than to get on the wrong side of her. For example he wanted to gift one of her properties, King’s Langley, to one of his supporters. He found he couldn’t bully her into of handing it over and she took the case to court - and won. Very few of her children survived her. Not many people reached their 80s at the time - especially women who could, and did, die in childbirth - but maybe bring a no nonsense, stroppy mare helps you live longer.
Henry VIi’s mother was also a femme sole and a formidable, stroppy mare too. She didn’t live to be as old as Cecile Neville but she lasted long enough to outlive her son and see her grandson inherit the throne so there might be something in it.
My dysfunctional family will be happy to learn they could be worse ! Keeping one's head during this time was no mean accomplishment. Thanks for another good video. Can't wait for part II.
Thank you. Yes, I'm sure a lot of families think they're dysfunctional until they hear about the Plantagenets and then they realise that dysfunctional is a relative term :-)
Ah yes, Proud Cis! She’s definitely a favourite and her life and times provide an interesting POV into the political events of the day.
Regarding her husband’s claim, I’m on the the fence about this. Primogeniture favours the Mortimer-York claim, proximity favours the Lancastrian, and the precedent for the usurpation of weak kings was already set by Henry IV. However, he took the throne from a childless Richard II, so Cecily and Richard ousting Margret and Henry while completely cutting out their son Edward would’ve been a huge mistake. This would only serve to spawn even more competing claims to the throne, as many of the leading nobles were all already related back to Edward III one way or another (he and Queen Philippa did have 13 children after all).
On the flip side they represented a wealthy couple both of royal decent where the husband was a seasoned military commander and the wife was pious and very fruitful, producing several children, many of whom survived to adulthood. This was in stark contrast to Henry VI and Margaret - a weak king who oversaw major English losses in France, and a foreign-born queen who was constantly over-stepping and interfering in politics while only managing to give birth once after several years of marriage.
If only the queen and the duke had managed to come to some sort of compromise, perhaps sealed with the prince’s marriage to one of the younger York girls, a lot of bloodshed could’ve been avoided. It’s these power moves that would unfortunately lead to the wiping out of both royal lines, as the deaths piled up on either side.
Looking forward to next week! With all that said, and given what we know of her, I do think Cecily would’ve made a fantastic queen 😬
Yes, trying to cut Prince Edward out of his inheritance was never going to end well. I like your idea of marrying him to one of the York girls though. It's a shame in some ways that Warwick got there first with his daughter Anne Neville. It only inflamed the situation further.
I have a lot of Friday night notifications but I think my favourite is fast becoming this channel
Thank you so much. I hope you enjoy the video on Cecily :-)
I don't usually comment but you deserve the bump in the algorithm.
Thank you :-) I wish everyone understood the algorithm as well as you do.
Absolutely fascinating...what a time these people lived in, in their pursuit of power. Well delivered as always.
Thanks Jacqui. Yes, I don't envy them.
And each person, seriously, honestly thought they had the right to be the monarch!
Another excellent video! I really like how you explain everything as best as possible given fuzzy details from hundreds of years ago. Giving multiple points of views, different reasons, with supporting information! Excellent work!!! Very much appreciate.
Thanks Heather. I do my best, but it's definitely a challenge with the Wars of the Roses given all the complicated family relationships.
I am a descendent of the Nevilles through my grandmother who was a Westmoreland. Enjoyed hearing this very much.
Thank you. I hope you'll come back on Friday for the next instalment.
Always interesting. I don’t think we can even imagine living through the times these people did. They lost so many children and yet they just ‘carried on’. Terrifying. Thank you, look forward to the next one. 👵👵👵🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
I know. Even a tenth of what they suffered would completely floor most of us nowadays I think.
i'm saving watching this video until me and my mom can watch it together (we've been watching your tudor series and bonding over our shared hatred of henry viii) but i'm sure you did a lovely job as always ☺️💙
Thank you. Hope you both enjoy it. Yes H8 was a thoroughly unpleasant article (at least from the mid 1530s on).
I love this story. I don't know if my mom would've been interested, but I loved watching stuff with her. I hope you guys enjoyed this video!
When it comes to Plantagenet history I think of Winston Churchill’s definition of Russia. “A riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma.” There’s more to unwrap in these family’s comings and goings. It makes me dizzy. However I find the Plantagenets fascinating. I’m looking forward to your videos on the Plantagenet women. Thank you. Have a great weekend.
Thanks Leticia. I agree. It's a lot to unravel and complicated by the fact that they were all related to each other so many times over.
If in Europe females were equal to males, your current queen could be still Plantagenet. In my country females were crowned as kings. And heirs were bearing name of the ruling monarch, so if ruling monarch was a female, it was she who was giving name to her sons, not their husbands name. I m fascinated with British history and once I traced blood line of Elisabeth the second and she truly is descendant of Plantagenets
Wow! I see why you went with two parts. Alot to unpack here. Weird hearing my last name tossed about so many times. Are we the bad guys? Glad I found you so I can learn about my ancestors. I only know the War of Roses happened, no details. You're a treasure. Thanks. Lvya
Ah, you're only the bad guys until we hear the story from Margaret of Anjou and Margaret Beaufort's points of view. Then it's all gonna be 'those scummy Yorks, we hate their guts'.
You have LOTS of interesting stuff to learn
No far from it, Lancaster are the good guys and Lancaster/Tudors won thanks to the two remarkable ladies HC will relate.
The Hundred Years War had just come to it's conclusion, basically the English never had enough capacity to hold South of the Loire and when their Burgundian allies switched sides at the Treaty of Arras it was damage limitation.
Henry VI inherited this. One uncle John Duke of Bedford was Regent in Normandy and Humphrey Duke of Gloucester Regent in England.
John made a good job but sadly died during the Treaty of Arras. Humphrey, well, was for the War but was a curious character. England split into two factions, pro-war like Humphrey and Anti-war like Cardinal Beaufort, the Duke of Suffolk and latterly the Duke of Somerset.
The seeds were sown.
Soldiers coming back without a job and only had known war.
A war party and a peace party.
Henry VI was a pious man, set up Eton College and King's College Cambridge but sadly had a condition where he became umcommunicative. He was married to a relative of Charles VII. She wasn't popular.
However they did have a child, Edward of Westminster, the Prince of Wales.
Events like the Cade Rebellion shocked England. Suffolk had been murdered by then and Somerset took the can.
Richard of York saw an opportunity. He was aided and abetted by a branch of the Neville family who were already at loggerheads with the Percy family in the North.
It didn't take long to boil over.
The Wars of the Roses lasted from 1455-1487 though there were peaceful gaps. Vendettas became foremost. About one third of the nobility were killed, either on field or by execution.
There were about 15 field battles of which the Yorkists won about 2/3rds.
The Yorkists made a mess of the peace and were prone to falling out amongst themselves not least Edward IV and his brother George Duke of Clarence.
All the Lancastrian House had to do was to stay in the game and wait for the Yorks' to implode.
God be thanked the House of Lancaster had two most remarkable ladies both called Margaret who did just that and made sure later the greatest dramatist perhaps of all time, Shakespeare, had the material, eventually, and could tell the story - from a Lancastrian point-of-view.
Though I don't think even he needed to add drama to the final scenes.
Both women were forced against type and morés of the time to fight for their only child, in the face of their own imminent danger.
Henry VI when decisions of state needed to be taken often seemed to be elsewhere. His Queen was always there even in military matters. She was never far away from battle
Latterly against all the odds and by surrounding herself with figures of the age, Saint John Fisher her confessor, Lady Margaret Beaufort in the most constant danger in a largely enemy court through political awareness second to none and with a completely modern use of the printed word ensured the succesion of her son and ushered in the Tudor dynasty.
Her badge, the Beaufort "portcullis" is the symbol of Westminster along with the Tudor Rose, her foundations of learning are still with us and even an Oxford College has been named in her honour.
Her great granddaughter Elizabeth was of the same mettle.
The Duchy of Lancaster had started as an Earldom by being given to Edmund Crouchback the brother of Edward I in the 1200's. It is a County Palatinate which gives it extra autonomous powers. Edward III in the 1300's raised it to a Dukedom, members of the Royal Family only.
Lancaster Castle is intact and inhabited. One of the most famous Dukes of Lancaster is John of Gaunt, the third son of Edward III and probably the wealthiest man after the king. A huge figure in English history. His gateway at Lancaster Castle is magnificent.
It was from him the Beaufort family sprung. Watch out for them. His legitimate family usurped the crown from Richard II, provided Henry IV, Henry V and Henry VI and through the Beaufort line Henry VII and Henry VIII etc.
Since the Usurpation in 1399 the Duchy has always been retained by the Monarch. Even though she is a lady Her Majesty the Queen is still the Duke of Lancaster amongst her titles. She has her own Chancellor in the British Cabinet that looks after the steward matters on her behalf.
You should be very proud of your name, very proud!:-)
@Spencer York Whose side were they on. Sadly the former goes practically unrecognised nationally yet has been described as the "English Gettysburg" and was a very sad affair. The only time two annointed kings with two Commissions of Array ever happened.
Even Shakespeare notes it (I think!) as "a place in Yorkshire".
Best wishes.
Thank you for your wonderfully detailed videos. You put so much effort into them and make them easier to understand. I don't know how you do it. The 15th century English royals are so confusing for me and you make it easier to follow. I know everyone from Richard III to Elizabeth II. I also have to mention, those poor, poor women who had so many children, noble and commoner. They must have just been so worn out. I cannot even imagine how hard life was for them. Bless them all!
You're very welcome. Yes, the Wars of the Roses are confusing to follow, especially as everyone was related to each other, usually several times over.
The family trees are a great help in understanding the relationships. A patient piece of work - thanks
A perfect watch for a Friday night! Thank you for all the effort you put into these!
Thanks Iris. Hope you like it :-)
this totally a historical cliffhanger. i kept seeing the red bar getting closer to the end like nooooo😭🤣 i cant wait to hear the next part!! excellent video!
Thank you. Always leave them wanting more as they say :-)
@@HistoryCalling hahaha yes you must!!
@@HistoryCalling I believe that was also said by Marlene Dietrich, a lady who knew her way around....
Amazing amount of detail as always. I'll definitely have to give this another viewing given the twists and turns you describe. I know next to nothing about The War of the Roses so this is the best starting point for me. Viewing this later than usual; pre-dinner hour so it's a great way to start the evening. Looking forward to next week! You rock, HC! Be well.
Thanks Stephen. Yes, it was a lot of work for me too to wrap my head around it all and then try to write up a coherent script. It was definitely a complicated time to be alive, especially if you were a Plantagenet.
Absolutely brilliant!! 😍So much I didn't know, like Cecily being taken prisoner, & sending her eldest sons to the Continent. I'm SO psyched for a whole series on the women of the WotR with decent research behind it, like it couldn't be better! 😍And I must say, your family trees are AMAZING! That's the only way I've got to even half-understanding what went on in the WotR, lol, & to know anything about Cecily & her life, you _have_ to know where she fits. Can't wait for ep 2!
Thanks Beth and I'm glad you appreciated the trees as they were absolute murder (no pun intended) to put together.
Absolutely bloody well done and researched 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼fascinating 👏🏼looking forward to part two
Thank you. It took ages to read up on and get my head around who everyone was and which battle was which :-)
@@HistoryCalling you put it in a way that I can fully understand and keep track of🙌🏼
The Bishop of Chichester was murdered on his way to pay the troops...
"MY DUDES, I WAS COMING TO PAY YOU GUYS, WHAT THE...!"
Yeah, I didn't understand the logic of that either 🤔
Unless the killers intended to rob him, instead of/in addition to killing him. 🤷
Great video! Cecily is my 17th Great GrandAunt! Raby Castle is a beautiful castle.
Awesome video! Can't wait for the next one.
Thanks Joseph :-)
Oh I’ll be back next week most definitely. Again, thank you for your in-depth commentary. It is always a pleasure listening to you.
Excellent video! I can't wait to see part two!
Glad you enjoyed it. Part 2 next week. Spoiler alert: there are going to be a lot more dead Plantagenets by the end of it!
What an in-depth study! Thank you History Calling. A masterful job and I’m sure extremely intense. So many people, so many relatives, so many directions, too many heirs! I come back each week to hear you bring history to life and you NEVER disappoint! I love the channel and your diligence. Again, thank you.
Thanks Amy. You're very welcome and yes, it was a _wee_ bit intense at times :-) The family trees were pretty complex (despite the fact that the versions in the video are simplified).
@@HistoryCalling I can just imagine! I think I watched 3 times to make sure I understood who was who and relations, etc! 🤷🏻♀️
Women’s history, usually overlooked, Thankyou! For these interesting videos❤
Thanks for these fascinating vids
Always looking forward to Fridays to see your new video!
Thank you. Hope you enjoyed hearing about Cecily.
Oh my goodness, this was so amazing! Perfect to get my day started. I appreciate all of your hard work and look forward to th next installment
Thanks LaToya. Glad you liked it. See you on Friday for the 2nd half :-)
Wow! This video made me go back and re-watch other videos on this period. Gave me a new appreciation of the rivalry between the Duke of York and Somerset. Now learning more about Edward the IV’s relationship with his parents. I wish more videos incorporated the stories of the women at the time. I love the video of Margaret Beaufort from Absolute History, other videos about Henry Tudor don’t give her any credit with his rise to power. Love learning about the family lines. Great Video!
That was great looking forward to part 2
Thank you. It's already done and scheduled for release next week :-)
Great idea for a series, looking forward to the next episodes.
Thank you. :-)
Very interesting and I’d not heard of her before. Love English history; especially the Tudors and, lately the Plantagenets. Can’t wait for part 2❤️
SO much energy spent in the pursuit of power. I think Richard and Cecily would have been wiser to hold their own position IMHO.
They certainly paid a heavy price for aiming for the throne. I'm not sure Richard had the kind of cut-throat nature that his son Edward displayed when he needed to. If he had, he might have seized the throne much sooner.
I enjoyed listening to the story on Cecily Neville life thanks for telling us
Really enjoyed this as I knew little about Cecily beforehand. Loved the old videos of London!
Ps the stained glass windows you showed of Jasper Tudor etc are in Cardiff Castle. I live seven miles from Cardiff. Alison
I was thrilled to find the public domain footage of London too. It's obviously from the wrong time period, but I thought it added nicely to the historical vibe. Yes, I've been to Cardiff Castle myself a couple of times (gorgeous building). Somehow I missed these windows though, which is why I use creative commons images from Flickr. I'm kicking myself!
The family trees you include are fantastic. I am currently rereading a book by Alison Weir Lancaster and York, as an audiobook. The book is packed with facts and make it entertaining but seeing the family jigsaw clears up the confusion on how they all relate. Very glad to have found your videos because they clear up some fuzzy spots in the book. Lovely job.
I throughly enjoy your videos. Thank you again 💓 for making history exciting for me
You're very welcome. Hope you like the 2nd part of Cecily's life on Friday :-)
Well, this one i will listen to again and again...my understanding of the complicated time before the Wars of the Roses is vague. I have read some about cecily/richard because of my interest in their daughter, Margaret, Duchese of Burgundy. She is another lady with an interesting life!
I know, it is really complicated. I had a fun (for which read headache inducing) time figuring out all the different ways people were related to each other and trying to condense it all into comprehendible family trees.
@@HistoryCalling Ahem! Here's another vote for Margaret of Burgundy, who makes my trio of favorite Margarets into a quartet:)
You have mentioned Margaret but in-passing. She was considered tall so gives strength to the argument that Edward IV was the son of Richard Duke of Gloucester.
Like the Lancastrian Margarets especially after her husband was found in a frosty ditch outside Nancy she really persevered to make her mark. Moving her court to Mechelen and looking after her step-daughter's interests she was a nuisance to the Tudors bankrolling imposters.
England had become inextricably linked with Burgundy.
The Duke of Burgundy was a senior member of the Valois family. Nominally Burgundy had been an Eastern Province with a capital in Dijon. By marriage and military campaigning it had grown to include Flanders and encompass modern Belgium and the Netherlands by the 1300's. It's court, though nominally a Dukedom, was possibly the wealthiest in Europe and the most elaborate.
However a rivalry occurred within the royal family. The Duke of Burgundy and the Duke of Orleans of the Armagnac faction, were at loggerheads.
John the Fearless the Duke of Burgundy arranged the murder of Louis Duke of Orleans in Paris after he had been visting a lady who had just given birth and was on his way back to the royal palace of St. Pol.
It was pretty much open warfare.
The Hundred Years War was in full swing.
Burgundy was bankrolled by two major industries, textiles and wine.
The manufacturing cities like Ghent and Bruges were dependant on English Wool through the English Staple. By the later Middle Ages these powerful cities had created some autonomy from the aristocracy - i.e the Battle of the Spurs etc. The cities were pro-English the aristocracy was pro-French.
The Duke of Orlean's son, Charles the new Duke, had been captured by the English in battle at Agincourt and was prisoner in England. Despite this the Armagnac faction continued the dispute with the Burgundians. They planned a reconciliation meeting with the Burgundians at Montereau on a bridge over the Seine to be attended to by the Dauphin, later Charles VII.
At this meeting sadly John the Fearless was also murdered by the Armagnacs.
His son, the new Duke of Burgundy, Phillip the Good, immediately struck up an alliance with the English. The French were pushed back beyond the Loire.
The Dukedom probably reached its apogee under Phillip and his Chancellor, Rolin.
At the Treaty of Arras the Burgundians changed sides again. Henry VI who was the only king ever crowned in both kingdoms was a baby and in his minority. It was a tall order to hold on to Normandy and Gascony without Burgundian support, not least financially. His uncle Bedford did a great job but sadly died at the time of the Treaty of Arras despite being pretty young - 40's etc.
His other remaining uncle Humphrey had remained Protector in England and was belligerent and worth a video on his own. He led the "War Party". This was the party that Richard Duke of York, egged on by Warwick for reasons, mainly property, of his own, would later lead after Humphrey.
The other party, the "Peace Party", was led by Cardinal Beaufort, the Duke of Suffolk who had led the military campaign and the Duke of Somerset, another Beaufort.
There was a triangular struggle (if you don't count Scotland) between London, Paris and Brussels (which had superceded Dijon mainly).
Scotland at this time was a separate and often beligerant country to England. It had formed the "Auld Alliance" with the French and famous Scottish families like Buchan and Douglas had being given leadership roles in the French Army. Henry V's brother, Thomas, Duke of Clarence, sadly had been killed by the Scots at Baugè, the highest-ranking English casualty in the Hundred Years War.
James I (Stuart Family) had been captured and held prisoner by the English during this time.
A young Henry VI had been betrothed to Margaret of Anjou a relative of Charles VII crowned at Rheims by St. Joan of Arc.
She immediately gravitated towards the "Peace Party" of the Beauforts.
Being foreign some of her new subjects didn't take to her and some have given her a bad press ever since calling her "She-Wolf". Partisan of course. Yorkist properganda.
If the Lancastrians were pro-French this fed into the national dynamic as the Yorkists would side with Burgundy.
It is against this background that Cecily's daughter Margaret married Phillip's son, Charles, later Charles the Bold.
When the Yorks were on their uppers in exile they would stay in Burgundy though usually outposted for political reasons in Uttrecht.
Hope this helps to navigate the shifting sands of political alliances.
Margaret seems as assiduos as the Lancastrian Margarets but less successful but after her husband's death trying to expand his empire even after defeats at Murten and Grandson she began to see less of him and was at loggerheads with her principal industrial cities and moved her court to Mechelen where she did a decent job as the now 'de facto" ruler of the Dukedom. She played a major role in the marriage of her step-daughter to Maximillian I the first Habsburg ruler of the Duchy.
Former Ricardians sought her solace after Bosworth. The Earl of Lincoln and Lord Lovell etc. She bankrolled a couple of rebellions that ended badly.
The Earl of Lincoln was killed at Stoke Field, the last battle of the WOTR in 1487.
Lord Lovell only survived by swimming the Trent. He was one of Richard III's lieutenants.
He disappeared from history, though in his house of Minster Lovell, in a secret room, a skeleton was found.
:-O
Hope this helps sketch in some of the background afore the period for you. ;-)
You're so cruel to end it on a cliffhanger (even if fans of this historical period know what will happen next regardless) but it's definitely a good way to ensure that everyone comes back next Friday! I didn't know that Cecily and Margaret prior to everything headed south actually had a fairly cordial relationship. You would have thought that since Richard Duke of York was so often in the bad graces of the royal couple that Cecily by extension would have been as well.
Yes, I was hoping that might encourage people to return. Also the video was just so long by then that I really wanted to finish it up.
@@HistoryCalling At first I thought that this was going to be a loooong video 📹. But, like the books 📚 I've read on the subject, I thoroughly enjoyed it and when it ended I was disappointed. Like a good book 📖, if it's good, I don't want it to end.
Thank you for your videos!
You're very welcome. Thank you for watching :-)
This series is going to be so juicy!!!
I think so too! :-)
Very detailed, love it! Have you read The Bard's fictional play Richard III? He was an interesting lad & the mystery of his bones was a big mystery until they were found. O.k., back to Cecily. Great video so far. :)
No, I've never read much Shakespeare beyond what I had to do in school. RIII is interesting though, I'll certainly grant you that. He was so loyal to Edward for so long and then usurped his son. Talk about a plot twist!
@@HistoryCalling Huge plot twist, something mystery movies today lack.
It’s so confusing I totally love that you added the tree on here
I researched the family lines while doing my own study of the War of the Roses. It helps to keep going over it again and again. In addition, you have to keep track of the family name plus the title. Thank you for an excellent video.
Great video! I love how thorough you are! This is my first time on your channel, I'm subscribed and look forward to checking out more.
Cecily fascinates me but I have a harder time finding anything on her, so thank you!
Awesome! Thank you and welcome aboard :-)
Another brilliant video! Thank you so much. I think Richard and Cecily would have been a good King and Queen. I’m looking forward to your next video. I’m really interested to know your opinion on whether Cecily was in London in spring 1438 and if she supported Richards rise to power over her grandson. I think she so over looked especially in comparison to Margaret Beaufort and Elizabeth Woodville but I think she was just as instrumental in events. Thank you so much for making a detailed video about her! 😁
Ah, spoiler alert, she was indeed in London, but you'll have to wait til next week to hear about that :-)
@@HistoryCalling I was hoping you would say she was! I can’t wait for the next episode ❤️
So I'm descended from many of the people involved in the second family tree, and I think even Cecily herself (though I would have to check). Either way this is so fascinating, humanising and just generally well made and thus a pleasure to watch as all your videos are. I can't wait to watch all of these videos on the War of the Roses women!! Thank you so much!!
Very good! Thanks
Thank you too :-)
Great video! I love hearing about these amazingly interesting women.
Thank you. I love researching them :-)
Wait 'til she gets to the Margarets. :-))))
⚘ REALLY well done. Clear. Concise. And you filled in the gaps for me regarding the key players. Thank you. New subscriber.
I’m so excited to learn more about Proud Cis!
Me too. She was a fascinating character.
A cliffhanger? Oh noooo! Can't wait for the next one!
Haha, all shall be revealed next week :-)
Firstly I would like to say thank you HC, you have done so well a mamouth task but as always done superbly,. 😊
Thank you. This one did feel pretty mammoth. The family trees alone ...😮
@@HistoryCalling I think you did a fantastic job HC, you can't beat perfection. 😊
😀
Thanks.
Great presentation!
Thank you kindly :-)
Love your videos, I’ve read everything I could get my hands on about the war of the roses… I would also love for you to do videos on John and William Marshall … the greatest knight and his father , I’ve read all the books on them also thank you for your videos
We need a video on Jacquetta Woodville.
If there's enough primary evidence to put together something of decent quality and the rest of the videos on the women of the Wars of the Roses do well, I promise I'll do one.
Love your videos!! I was reading about Queen Caroline of Brunswick today and didn’t see that you had a video on her. Could you possibly do one?
Sure can :-)
You are my favorite history RUclipsr.
Thank you so much :-)
I am reading the 4 book series by Eleanor Fairburn (The Rose in Spring book 1) that chronicles the life of Cecelia Neville, which brought me to this video. It is historical fiction, but sheds so much light on her that I never realized. Like many, her portrayal in "The White Queen" was stuck in mind until I started this series. AND, I have a loathing for Margaret of Anjou far greater than I did before I started the series. (I am glad MA died penniless in France!)
"Most likely one of the most dysfunctional royal families England had ever seen"
Queen Elizabeth II "hold my beer"
Haha, while the current incumbents aren't perfect (who is after all?), at least they're not killing each other.
@@HistoryCalling Not Yet!
Oh I’m opening my best port for this one, Thankyou HC x
Enjoy :-)
Just found this and loved it! This is my family's Civil War; my mother's name is Wesmoreland. Thanks
Well, yes Richard and Cecily should have been King and Queen. Based on Richard's having governed the country well for a year, I'd say they'd have been well off. And there are the various bloodlines. Can't wait to see Part II!!
Very complicated days. But it’s an interesting story & im looking forward to the next instalment.
Thank you. Yes, it is complex, but I'm hoping the family trees (which took forever to put together) will help people keep up.
Watching this again because I hate cliff hangers and finally understand who all these people are ❤️
Glad I found this channel.
Subbed ✔️
Awesome, thank you!
Great video
Thank you :-)
This was so interesting 😊 I do think Richard and Cecily should of been king and queen x I think Cecily was a very caring lady wen it came to her children x well done to another brilliant video 👍🙂
Thank you :-)
Loved this! Your voice is so nice 😍. Would love a video on her husband too since there isn't much about him on RUclips.
Thank you. I'll see how the videos on the women of the Wars of the Roses do first I think and then if there's enough interest, I'd be happy to come back and look at Richard in more detail.
Jeepers, there's a lot to pick through there. More rewatches I think and a notepad and pen (I feel old saying 'pen'). What a story and then but wait, there's more. Great research HC and use of photos too. I'm intrigued by the image of the throne you used, reminds me of The Last Kingdom.
That's St Edward's Chair in Westminster Abbey, used in almost all English/British coronations. It's a fantastic piece of history. I don't think I've seen The Last Kingdom, but if they got their inspiration from that throne, they chose a good one to base their set piece on. :-)
Cheers. Ludlow is an impressive castle
Excellent work, just knew this series was right up your street. Can't remember, but are you going to do an in depth on Margaret of Anjou? Some of the French Queens had interesting lives like Yolande of Aragon. Well done though.
Margaret's my next port of call. I should've put her in the poll I did on this series, but never mind :-)
@@HistoryCalling Yes! (That's me, pumping the air.)
Yeahhh! Both Margarets I sooo agree with you and we are promised such!
Both often tainted by history for not knowing their place in the 15th Century, called "The She-Wolf" etc. It was the Margarets that won the Wars of the Roses by not being ciphers but being forced to step into politics when their husband's were unable and to protect their only child. It was common to have an "heir and a spare". Neither did and Lady Margaret Beaufort had her son when she was 12!
Both modern women who proved more than a match for the men. Ensuring that their version, of their noble House, was the one people would know.
History would be kind to them subsequently because they were the one's that wrote it ... literally. Lady Margaret got Polydore Vergil to write the whole account in the age of printing.
Being a spin-doctor is nothing new.
They both founded colleges and schools of learning including Cambridge.
The only Yorkist lady to come close was Elizabeth wife of Edward IV. Both queens Margaret and Elizabeth founding Queens' College Cambridge (n.b. apostrophe).
@@HistoryCalling Apology accepted ;-).
S'ppose you're leaving the best 'till last, the other Margaret, rather them both in a box-set! ;-).
If the Yorkist ladies had anything like maybe they could have won.
Churchill said history will look kind upon him because he intended to write it.
Lady M got their first. Maybe she wasn't the first spin-doctor in history but in with a shout of being the first woman yeehhh!
Good old Shakespeare would have been stuck without her and she didn't even know he was coming!
York 0 Lancaster 2 (after extra time).
Poor Anne Neville outshone by her first mother-in-law.
Thank you so much for covering this period. Don't stray too far from it please? :)
Present!! I hope we will not have a quiz on this one. Looking forward to reading more of the comments.
TY History Calling
Thank you. :-)
I love learning about the wat of the roses ❤
Thanks
THANK YOU SO MUCH LINDA for your very kind contribution to the channel. I hope you enjoyed Cecily's story. She was an incredible lady.
Oh so interesting!!
Thank you. I think so too :-)
💌🕊thanks
I have greatly appreciated your well-informed and well-written videos on major figures from the period of the Wars of the Roses in 15th-century England, and from the generally much better known Tudor Period.
Have you done a video yet on the 12th-century Anarchy, the dynastic civil war between the Empress Mathilda-the so-called “Lady of the English”-and King Stephen? I have always been intrigued by this turbulent period because of its having been the first time in English history a woman, Mathilda-daughter of King Henry I-was chosen (after the White Ship disaster) as a monarch’s successor, and actually reigned (albeit in a constantly disputed fashion) in her own right for a brief while (1141-1148). If you have already produced a video on the Anarchy, I’d love to watch it. If you have not, would you consider doing so?
Hi Stephen. Thank you for your kind words. You'll be happy to know that Matilda and the White Ship are both on my list. I find her story fascinating too (especially escaping in the snow dressed in white - it's like something out of a Grimm's fairytale!)
So what could be a few explanations of the children coming later. It does seem she was very fertile. She could have started her menses later than the norm, that could be why babies didn’t come earlier. Being raised together, the two could have felt more like siblings and taken a whole to warm to the idea of a physical relationship. There could have been miscarriage, or preemie babies that took a while to conceive after. Or it could have been that they just missed the few days that she was able to conceive. It’s so interesting to hear of so many children. Most royals didn’t have that many as time went on. I wonder if it had to do with the close family marriages, and intermarriages that saw a decline in fertility.
Yes, it is odd that she was well in her 20s before any surviving children arrive and we don't hear of any others before that. The reasons you give are all sound, although given how successful they were at procreating later, I think family intermarrying probably wasn't a major problem (they weren't super closely related after all). Now if you want to see what really bad inbreeding can do, I recommend looking at the Spanish Habsburgs...
Cecily Neville is my 17th great grandmother
Her Pops was Westmoreland in Netflix’s “The King” movie....the guy who asks Falstaff how he knows its going to rain and is also the fellow in the movie that tells the King that they have a rabble of prisoners and they cannot secure them to which Henry says “kill them all”--That is Cecilly’s father....
Love Cecily!
Another excellent video, thank you
You're very welcome :-)
TBH, I don't really care about the men but the women of the Cousins War are absolutely fascinating. From Cecily to Jacquetta and on to their daughters and the other women involved.
I know right! In many of medieval Europe's conflicts, you'll find the women are far more interesting.
Just stumbled upon your channel ( one of those bizarre things RUclips does). I love this history period in particular the Wars of the Roses ( some royals these days think they’ve got it tough). It’s great the way you sight documents and make comparisons about written and verbal accounts of events. Out of nosiness, is this an interest of yours or have you a history degree? If self taught…. I’m jealous.
Thank you so much and welcome aboard. I have a PhD in history and used to work as a university researcher and lecturer. When I get to 100k subscribers I think I'll do a Q&A video and maybe explain my background a little bit more, as I get asked about it sometimes.
@@HistoryCalling …. So not just a history buff but a properly educated one which I got the impression from talking about different sources of information. I’m a Sonographer but always had a keen interest in the way the monarchy has shaped Britain and Europe over the centuries. It’s a matter of finding factual books from fiction.
Hi. Although I am Spanish, I lived at different places across UK for several years. I am very interested in English history and I have been following your RUclips channel for a while. I would like to recommend the channel to my parents, since they are also history lovers. However, they do not speak English at all... therefore, an idea came to my mind. It would be great to have your videos accessible for Spanish speakers and I would be more than happy translating the script into spanish and putting the voice to it. I hope you find interesting this and I will be looking forward to hearing from you.
Excellent video, although you should have used the closing episode music from the BBC soap Eastenders for the cliffhanger ending!
Haha, if only copyright would allow that :-)
Lol, I can just hear those drums kicking in!
I don’t know if other people feel this too, but as evil as Richard III may have been, I’ve always felt this magnetic pull toward him
So sad history 😢😢
i love to see the family tree. more better do you have a link for it?
No, I created the tree myself so there's just what you see in the video I'm afraid.