Now this is something I've always wanted to learn how to do and I'm glad if these individuals are putting forth the effort selecting something a dream come true easy way to go
He got confused turning into a canyon, thinking it had an exit to a lake, but it was a box. He tried to navigate his way out of it, doing a 180, but couldn't climb high enough, fast enough, and crashed on the bank of the other side.
@@Hachiae I agree. Car companies show their vehicles drifting corners and speeding through mountain trails. Doesn't mean I should try it. Hell, Suzuki sponsors Travis Pastrana. Maybe I'll try a double backflip.
@@davespringer777 Absolutely on point. Everyone whos talking crap about this should be talking crap about how every car company exists............period. Nobody, and i mean NOBODY knows the rate theyre going until they hit and i mean HIT the ground or some thing.
To add to what I said.. you never get in a vehicle where the driver/pilot takes off thinking there's a 100% chance you'll be parking safely. Never. That's called ignorance.
I’m a real life pilot and wow, there’s no doubt that an AoA indicator in GA planes would have done work a lot easier, even to understand how important it is to interpret correctly and knowing it’s limits with a little simple and complex instrument at the same time.
Yep it is a pretty representation of the old buzzer that has been around for decades. I can still hear the buzzer starting to come on in my head as I was doing stall / spin training. Buzzes a little you feel it getting mushy it buzzes a lot in a turn you are going to have fun ! Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't see this as being revolutionary.
My thoughts exactly! The stall horn is an AoA indicator... just simpler and cheaper, and at least you don't have to see it to be warned. In most practical ways, the old stall horn is better.
In June 2015, the company indicated that they had 1,250 orders for the A5 and plans to build 500 per year by 2017. Total number built by the end of 2017? 23. Total number built by 2019? 90. Meanwhile, the price is up to $400k. Hmm...
Thanks for the stats. More Icons are in the news and why? They're crashing from either sport pilots taking risks from unfamiliarity with the range of issues related to water takeoffs and landings coupled with low time experience to ignoring medical risks from drugs affecting dynamic effects from flight.
I looked at becoming involved in the company when they first started prototyping. The issue I recognized, and one that troubled me, was their incredibly top heavy corporate structure. Never a good thing when you are trying to develop a new product and input from the design floor is important.
The gauge might be misleading. I might be flying at very low airspeed, yet be in the green since I'm descending and thus be unaware that pulling up even slightly would immediately land me in the red. I think airspeed is also important since you've got to have either kinetic or potential energy to play with. If you've got neither, you are either touching down or about to crash.
Weiwu Zhang Stall angle of attack (critical AoA) does depend on Reynolds number, but in the context of this aircraft (small speed range, low altitudes, etc.) I would imagine that critical AoA is considered a constant value. The gauge is directly reading AoA, and thus the reading is relevant in all scenarios. Stall speed (in IAS), not stalling angle, is affected by bank angle. But yes of course knowing your airspeed in addition to AoA is important since those two things determine your rate of climb (or descent).
When descending you will generally still be pulling 1G. Stall speed is unaffected by whether you are ascending or descending, you are just more likely to end up in a stall ascending because you lose speed faster. Sub 1G loads are impossible to sustain for long (the ground objects), and will not affect your airspeed the way high G loads will. The cool thing about AoA is that it is pretty linear. If you are pulling 1G at a certain AoA you will pull 2G if you double the AoA. That means that if the guage is in the green you have a lot of lift available to you. Pulling back on the stick will not make you stall (though you might lose speed fast). Definitely agree that speed is life, altitude is life insurance, but these are more medium term heuristics compared to the immediate "wings produce lift and drag based on AoA" concerns.
no, the only way to be in the green with very low airspeed is with less than 1G flight, not possible for long as others have commented. assuming constant AoA for stall is a good enough method for practical concerns. in general critical AoA changes with airspeed (well actually reynolds number, but all factors other than velocity in reynolds number is constant) but the change is very small and assumed constant above a certain threshold, for most applications in aircraft reynolds number is very high and not considered a factor in AoA. i agree with the icon designers in that it should be included in some way shape or form in every airplane, particularly GA planes as they are flown by less experienced pilots.
Team Synergy congratulates Icon for putting AoA awareness front and center and for bringing it to the forefront of the aviation safety discussion. What a nice priority to insist upon from your earliest designs forward.
I can not avoid commenting this excellent video! I don't know what's best: the video or the aircraft! This really shows you the passion of flying. Good job!
OK, I admit it. I'm impressed. I've been a fan of Advanced Flight Systems' AoA displays for years (still am), but that's about as intuitive a display as one can get.
After flying around in a lot of GA planes I have to say AoA is something I wish I had from the beginning. I'm not a private pilot or LSA pilot but I have friends that let me fly with them and perform landings and such. With AoA I could see myself nailing perfect landings every time.
Another excellent addition to the A5 project. Kirk, I have said it before, I'll say it again, outstanding team, outstanding accomplishments. Look forward to touching base at Osh and congratulations on the AoA accomplishment a beautiful pairing with the spin recovery and BSR systems. Win, win, win.
I'll have to get one of these in the next life, all the good stuff is coming out now!! (Dear Worlds Fair, I attended the World of Tomorrow exhibition. It's now 2019.....the future still has not happened. Thanks for the lowered expectations!)
ICON is a great small aircraft company in California, Not many left here. I own a small manufacturing business and have done some work for them, The people there are Top notch to work with. Have not heard much from them as of late, but am looking forward to possibly working with them more in the future. Not many innovative small business left in this state compared to 20-30 years ago. Go ICON!
After having a difficult time flying the other planes in Flight Simulator 2020 I hopped into this thing and had a blast, even if it's a video game its angle of attack gauge is so intuitive to fly. I was like landing on lakes and making low height maneuvers it was like a duck
While not critical for GA aircraft (afterall, GA aircraft have been flying without it) an AOA indicator would be VERY helpful. It would give you a graphic representation of would you are on the speed/loading curve. To say that a pilot would ignore his VSI because of the AOA indicator is like saying that he would ignore his VSI because of his airspeed indicator. You use the available instruments to get a picture of what teh aircraft is doing.
The AoA system is a result of the pilot’s flying, not the other way around. Making corrections based on it is like resolving the effect of a problem instead of the problem.
WOW! Now I know what that indicator is on the dashboard of the ICON A5 in MSFS. I've been wondering since I first tried it a few days ago. Logged in 9 hours of flying on the ICON A5. Thank you!
Speaking about implementation of AOA indicator & it will change the way we teach people how to fly, most of the instructors will go, do what ever you want just don't bring it to the red...awesome aircraft~!
Absolutely! AOA is the most primary information needed by a pilot. Archaic FAA regulations requiring Airspeed, etc. (and not AOA) exist only as an artifact of history -- from the 1920's! It's time for a change. FAA needs to dispense with the requirement for Airspeed, and add a requirement for AOA.
It was never clear to me how it came to the point where pilots are thought to fly airspeed and not AoA. You can stall wing at any speed. AoA is what makes ti stall. Still a lot of pilots have the idea that you fly slow you stall, fly fast you are safe, and that is absolutely wrong. So cudos to you guys doing the right thing,
An interesting note from the pilot's handbook reads: "If the engine quits in instrument conditions (blind flying when you can't see the ground) or at night, the pilot should pull the control column full aft (it won't stall) and keep the wings level. The leading-edge slats will snap out at about 40 mph (64 km/h), and when the airplane slows to a forward speed of about 25 mph [40 km/h], the airplane will sink at about a parachute descent rate until the aircraft hits the ground."
Stall speed is all about the airflow over the wings. If you are in an envelope which reduces the airflow then you will stall. Where that envelope is depends on many factors, but AOA is one of the biggest factors. Wing loading is another. Wing loading might be the biggest contributor to stall speed. It will determine your effective AOA. The AOA is controlled by the pilot. Wing loading is a manufacturing concern. I hear about the "spin resistant" wing, but I wonder if that comes with a price of raising the wing loading? I am a part 107 pilot, but I also build scale aircraft and wing loading is one of the biggest factor when choosing an airframe. Park flyers have super low wing loading, and so they can fly low and slow, but the EDF jets usually have higher wing loading, so you can get more lift at the higher speeds. Scale usually sits in the middle depending on what you are building.
@@juharuohisto5702 It is a yellow strip of vertical lights, below the Garmin display. The problem is if you trim it to TO position in cockpit, it actually trims down.
I feel for these people and the families of those who have gone. I have seen new and old pilot's who needed to go back to school. The ground/water is not your friend, it is there waiting to kill you. An engineer who I work with bent two Harvard's while training in the Airforce. Staying alive and safe is a mindset. I have spent years climbing in canyons/kloofs, no one in their right mind wants to fly any kind of aircraft in these places. I nearly bought the 'Farm' a few years ago. It was in a B747-400 over central Africa. We went through some really severe thunderstorms. We dropped tail first out of one of them. Then hit the updraft, this was like hitting a wall. I never thought you could corkscrew one of these things, but we did. The pilots had to hand fly us back to France for repairs. Thanks for the interesting video, this thing is like a flying Jetski on Testosterone. And greetings from Africa.
Seems like a good addition to have to an aircraft, but what happens in the event that the instrument fails? If we make it so that people no longer need an understanding for how a wing functions in relation to all the other factors related to the aircraft, I could see some problems in the future. Definitely a good addition to have for pilots who understand what impacts angle of attack, but shouldn't be a replacement for superior aeronautical knowledge.
Simultaneously the antithesis, and yet the epitome of good old fashioned stick and rudder flying. High tech yet simple. Lol. Mixed feelings. I came here because I love aviation and aerospace, have played several sims, and just got Microsoft Flight Simulator as my new go to sim. I tried the A5 and excuse my french, but in the parlance of our times, I thought to myself, "Wtf is this gimmicky sh!t doing in the introduction to bushcraft section lmao." That said, I really really love it. Really, AoA is a really key metric to think of when you're flying, even though most planes aren't outfitted with a guage and you're just estimating or guessing it. I've only ever had it displayed somewhere for me (cockpit guage or otherwise) in a military sim. I don't like the idea of pushing it as the be all end all, let people hyperfocus on this one metric and not really learn my IAS, bank, rotations at each altitude etc. A large fraction of Alaskan bushcraft pilots fly unlicensed... Not saying they should, but it's the reality we live in and it's not my place to judge anyway. I've seen estimates that say anywhere from 5 percent to 45, anyone's guess really unless you have a really well-funded study that'll never happen. I wonder what prices and accessibility of aircraft with AoA guages and cockpits like this will be like in 15 years from now. I know y'all say you're working on bringing affordability up, or were 8 years ago at least. Anywho, cool stuff, it's a really fun guage to fly, get some more performance out of the craft, and a really great safety feature. I'm just hesitant with it being so big in front of me and my traditional 6 pack being less prominent/somewhat hidden.
My issue is you could buy two ultra modern STOL Zlin cub ultras with the turbocharged rotax 915 , one on floats and one on wheels for the price of one of these .. Two brand new far more capable planes for the price of one
Brilliant idea! AoA has been a thing of Business Jets upwards for far too long! Really important piece of information. I'm sure it will be integrated into Garmin / Bendix / Avidyne suites before too long!
Also, stall angle of attack may be different at different conditions: altitude, humidity, leading edge surface finish, Reynolds #, side slide, and other. It would be more accurate to use stall indicator based on something else (like airfoil surface pressure, or so) instead of the angle of attack. Practically, it may be a condition that it stalls even AoA indicator says it should not. So you will need to icrease safety margin to compensate errors.
It calculates the angle of attack. It tells you which way the wind is moving across the wing and calculates when the wing will stall based on the airspeed. So if you bank 90 degrees to the right and pull hard, the indicator will move toward the red and determine if you're going to stall in your turn. An artificial horizon would just tilt and show that you are banking. This tells you if you're going to stall in your turn, climb, dive, or level flight. It doesn't just show the aircraft's position based on the horizon.
AoA is the angle between the chord line and the relative wind. The artificial horizon shows the angle between the planes current pitch or attitude to the horizon.
Wow, I'm impressed! I would really be impressed if they ever sell an aircraft. The only thing they've sold so far is stock in their company and a promise. Both of them have the same value.
AoA alone doesn't tell the entire story, but it's very close. AoA and a slip/skid indicator would truly tell the whole story. If you have a good AoA but you're skidding like crazy, you could still conceivably stall, because the AoA in a turn is not a constant across the width of the aircraft and the total airflow across the inside wing will be lower in a skid, which would effectively change the AoA envelope on the gauge (unless, of course, they've taken this into consideration and already limited that envelope).
RE: (`Its an AoA gauge, its been in experimental aircraft for over 15 years`) Who says it`s not ? and of course it`s been around for ages,but to have it incorporated in a light aircraft is a quite a new development.Once again Well done Icon to the Icon team and designers.
the AOA indicator is revolutionary for general aviation. I'm sure we'll see more of it from other manufacturers. There needs to be a standard, though. Same gauge, same lines, like that.
You could build a hell of a lot more than that for 189k, but the icon is a luxury LSA. For the money, you could build the equivalent, but they already have it packaged up in a well-tested craft.
It's good and would be useful. A very easy to interpret AOA gauuge has been in existence for a long time. It is found in USAF T-38s. Besides the guage, there is a 3 light vertical display that sits in your line of sight on top of the glare shield. A red chevron points downward if you are slow, a green donut in the middle if you are on speed, and a yellow chevron pointing up if you are fast. we "fly the green donut" ...
I love this plane it’s a brilliant piece of engineering, its biggest problem is it’s been marketed wrong right from the beginning and has more or less killed this project.
What will kill this plane in the market is price. A cute plane, but not $389K cute. An AOA indicator is a great idea. Why not retrofit to your current aircraft?
Once again must I be surprised that the Icon team have incorporated in the cockpit of the A5 and Angle of Attack dial? No! I am not, because these guys do know what it takes to fly aeroplanes. My faith only grows stronger from drawing board to full production of this craft.
Actually, how would the AoA indicator respond to a slip? Say left turn base to final, too high. Left wing gives what, 20% lift, right way less, no lifting body. So the plane is in a controlled rapid descent without laminar airflow disruption, unless the SHTF very quick as any of the problematic factors are factored in when used by an inexperienced pilot. Thanks in advance for an answer... Bueheller?
Aerospace Engineering Student and Multimedia Graduate here. In regards to UX, wouldn't a gauge that starts flat (Horizontal) at zero AoA and also displays negative AoA be more intuitive as well as more quickly inform the pilot?
F-16 has an angle of attack indicator just to the left of the hud. Monitoring it to maintain 11 degrees aoa is a large part of the landing procedure. Another cool fact. F-22 and f-35 can fly in excess of 50 degrees aoa.
I want to be a part of this team so badly. Amazing stuff guys. It's my dream to own one of these beauties someday. Unfortunately that may not happen on a software engineer's salary.
I like the idea of Alpha as primary instrumentation, but noticeably absent is a vertical speed indicator. You are building a seaplane that potentially will need to execute a glassy water landing. With no reference on when to flare, the only way to land is to set up a pitch-power combo that will result in a constant vertical velocity around 150-200 ft/min. This pitch-power combination changes with density altitude, and must be established at a safe altitude and checked with the VVI, before landing. Without a vertical velocity instrument, how do you propose a potential customer perform a glassy water landing?
OK, sounds good but I'd like to know the mechanics of the instrument. The learn more link doesn't seem to cover the instrument, how does it work? You could easily derive AOA from g force and indicated air speed but would be limited to the range +- CL crit. That is, it won't work while in stall. You also can't use GPS flight path and trim incidence because that would be influenced by induced incidence for the whole aircraft and not give true AOA. Would that matter though? Also flap setting influences CL crit which changes the instruments calibration around the zero lift trim and CL crit changing with Re due to airspeed requires re-calibration of the instruments scale. So I have to assume you have automated these calibrations for intuitive simplicity. So, I'd like to know the inputs used, what auto and setup calibrations have been included and if the instrument can be installed and calibrated to function in other existing fixed wing aircraft. Maybe that's a business secret, nice job though.
does the parachute get caught in the propeller when activated? would be interesting to see worst case scenario procedures in real time as they are a security barrier for most people considering flight.
I would prefer a tape (with a chevron) like in all the modern glass panels, because A5 isn't going to be the sole airplane I might fly. However, it's better to have this indicator than none. There's a reason why the leader of U.S. LSA market, the CTLS, comes with an AoA standard too. It's a great thing to have.
Wow aeronautics finally caught up to what sailor have been doing for years and years and years, AOA in regards to stalling the foils and sails. It's not and never has been brain surgery .
I love this plane and DO agree with the AoA guage and its benefits, However, The young lady stated that, due to this guage, "We would be teaching and flying so differently." Not true.... Im not even sure what she meant by that. The fundamentals fo flight remain the same. This guage only demonstrates graphically, what we have already been taught. It DOES make it a little easier to "see" what the flight envelope looks like. It does not change the way we should teach or fly.
I think she meant that we'd be spending less time looking at a cluster of gauges and be looking nearly entirely at the AoA for things like landings and slow flight. It definitely would be nice to see the limits of your airplane in real time
A good high power single x country cruiser. Like a bonanza or piper saratoga. Something to take a few people a long way for a week. Also something fun to put around in.
"A good high power single x country cruiser. Like a bonanza or piper saratoga. Something to take a few people a long way for a week. Also something fun to put around in." This is exactly what its NOT. NOBODY is buying this jet ski with wings to "putt around in" or "to take a few people a long way for a week." It's designed for non-pilots to act stupid in and pretend they are jet fighter pilots or pelicans diving for food until they CRASH into the drink and die. Why do you think "Reckles Roy" Halladay is the spokesperson for this POS "aircraft"? Doesn't really matter any more since after 3 deaths in less than a year including the CHIEF DESIGNER of the thing AND a very famous athlete, this company is TOAST, as in DONE, over and out. Pay off the lawsuits, declare bankruptcy and GO AWAY..............
Now this is something I've always wanted to learn how to do and I'm glad if these individuals are putting forth the effort selecting something a dream come true easy way to go
I'm in Dubai. Will you be making one in solid gold?
FerrariDMC I've got one installed in my BMW!
DUBAI TOO
FerrariDMC send me some gold 😭 I’m poor over here in California lol
too heavy
Solid gold? It will never get off the ground, or get a 747 engine just to charge dow a runway, no flying
5:29 Rest in Peace, This man died in an icon test flight accident, along with another person. our prayers are with you.
this is sad.especially him being so passionate about this project.
..but our customer curiosity demands : what was the origin of the disaster ?
He got confused turning into a canyon, thinking it had an exit to a lake, but it was a box. He tried to navigate his way out of it, doing a 180, but couldn't climb high enough, fast enough, and crashed on the bank of the other side.
Rip the Roy also....
Who was he? How did he die? Info pls :(
flight simulator 2020 brought me here.
no experience flying I was able to fly this and land it on microsoft flight sim perfectly.. such a cool plane
flight simulator 2020 brought me here. Too
this plane quickly became my favorite. dashboard, visibility is amazing and it can land on water
same my friend , same.
Me too
First two crashes ruled human error. Same will be with the Halladay incident except his was beyond error... it was screwing around and hot dogging it.
Yes it's pilot error but this company encouraged the behavior that he was exhibiting. ICON is 100% at fault for their scam marketing of this aircraft.
@@parallelburrito what how so? the pilot should always know his own limits and fly within them
@@Hachiae I agree. Car companies show their vehicles drifting corners and speeding through mountain trails. Doesn't mean I should try it. Hell, Suzuki sponsors Travis Pastrana. Maybe I'll try a double backflip.
@@davespringer777 Absolutely on point. Everyone whos talking crap about this should be talking crap about how every car company exists............period. Nobody, and i mean NOBODY knows the rate theyre going until they hit and i mean HIT the ground or some thing.
To add to what I said.. you never get in a vehicle where the driver/pilot takes off thinking there's a 100% chance you'll be parking safely. Never. That's called ignorance.
I’m a real life pilot and wow, there’s no doubt that an AoA indicator in GA planes would have done work a lot easier, even to understand how important it is to interpret correctly and knowing it’s limits with a little simple and complex instrument at the same time.
A5 is a beauty.
Didn't look so great great in a hundred pieces spread around the gulf.
It looks great if the pilot isn't a dumbass, which Roy Halladay was.
No, is not.
@@hate-conductor why?
@@jimkont3590 because from some angles of view it looks like an angular box with wings
I have an Icon A5, only an RC model but it keeps me motivated to work for the real thing, absolutely love this plane. It's a work of art really :)
Swiss-viation couple of years later but who makes your RC? I'd love to look at one!
@@p38sheep lol, I believe it was Horizon Hobby that made it, don't know if they still make them.
Swiss-viation sweet thanks for the reply... looks like it's been discontinued sadly. I'm looking at a nice 1.5m timber though :-)
@@p38sheep I'm sorry to hear that. The Icon RCs did sell out quick quickly from what I can remember. If you can get one out of timber, why not, 😁👍
Swiss-viation birthday is coming up! Very well might! Cheers!
So beautiful, and those landings were amazing! Great job @ICON Air team!
I've been using AoA in my Hyundai roadster for years !
Same
Flight simulator 2020 brought me here and boy do I love flying this plane in that sim
Jon karkow was a legend in the aircraft design community. Greatest engineer I ever worked with.
Yep it is a pretty representation of the old buzzer that has been around for decades.
I can still hear the buzzer starting to come on in my head as I was doing stall / spin training. Buzzes a little you feel it getting mushy it buzzes a lot in a turn you are going to have fun ! Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't see this as being revolutionary.
My thoughts exactly! The stall horn is an AoA indicator... just simpler and cheaper, and at least you don't have to see it to be warned. In most practical ways, the old stall horn is better.
In June 2015, the company indicated that they had 1,250 orders for the A5 and plans to build 500 per year by 2017. Total number built by the end of 2017? 23. Total number built by 2019? 90. Meanwhile, the price is up to $400k. Hmm...
They found out the problem with liability in aviation
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Thanks for the stats. More Icons are in the news and why? They're crashing from either sport pilots taking risks from unfamiliarity with the range of issues related to water takeoffs and landings coupled with low time experience to ignoring medical risks from drugs affecting dynamic effects from flight.
I looked at becoming involved in the company when they first started prototyping. The issue I recognized, and one that troubled me, was their incredibly top heavy corporate structure. Never a good thing when you are trying to develop a new product and input from the design floor is important.
The gauge might be misleading. I might be flying at very low airspeed, yet be in the green since I'm descending and thus be unaware that pulling up even slightly would immediately land me in the red.
I think airspeed is also important since you've got to have either kinetic or potential energy to play with. If you've got neither, you are either touching down or about to crash.
Weiwu Zhang Stall angle of attack (critical AoA) does depend on Reynolds number, but in the context of this aircraft (small speed range, low altitudes, etc.) I would imagine that critical AoA is considered a constant value. The gauge is directly reading AoA, and thus the reading is relevant in all scenarios. Stall speed (in IAS), not stalling angle, is affected by bank angle. But yes of course knowing your airspeed in addition to AoA is important since those two things determine your rate of climb (or descent).
When descending you will generally still be pulling 1G. Stall speed is unaffected by whether you are ascending or descending, you are just more likely to end up in a stall ascending because you lose speed faster. Sub 1G loads are impossible to sustain for long (the ground objects), and will not affect your airspeed the way high G loads will.
The cool thing about AoA is that it is pretty linear. If you are pulling 1G at a certain AoA you will pull 2G if you double the AoA. That means that if the guage is in the green you have a lot of lift available to you. Pulling back on the stick will not make you stall (though you might lose speed fast).
Definitely agree that speed is life, altitude is life insurance, but these are more medium term heuristics compared to the immediate "wings produce lift and drag based on AoA" concerns.
no, the only way to be in the green with very low airspeed is with less than 1G flight, not possible for long as others have commented. assuming constant AoA for stall is a good enough method for practical concerns. in general critical AoA changes with airspeed (well actually reynolds number, but all factors other than velocity in reynolds number is constant) but the change is very small and assumed constant above a certain threshold, for most applications in aircraft reynolds number is very high and not considered a factor in AoA.
i agree with the icon designers in that it should be included in some way shape or form in every airplane, particularly GA planes as they are flown by less experienced pilots.
It's called be aware of your surroundings. Do you look at only your HUD/gauges/dashboard in video games or while you're driving to work?
@@hawkofthereborn43 I don't play video games and the vehicle I ride to work doesn't have any gauges because it's a bicycle .
A lot of people including myself are loving your plane in Microsoft flight simulator 20
Team Synergy congratulates Icon for putting AoA awareness front and center and for bringing it to the forefront of the aviation safety discussion. What a nice priority to insist upon from your earliest designs forward.
I can not avoid commenting this excellent video! I don't know what's best: the video or the aircraft! This really shows you the passion of flying. Good job!
that is a game changer I am interested. you guys are the future I can see every commercial Air liner with this capabilities.
That has got to be the single most important tool available to general public making flying safer.
OK, I admit it. I'm impressed. I've been a fan of Advanced Flight Systems' AoA displays for years (still am), but that's about as intuitive a display as one can get.
The most exciting GA plane I've ever seen.
LSA not GA ol boy :)
Incredible! Hopefully ICON has a 4 seater in mind for the future.
$270k-389k not sure how that price is light sport
Wow, that's really cheap for such an aircraft!
@@Endorion_YTC Wow, you clearly know nothing about light sport aircraft
@@flightevolution8132 Wow, so do you!
light sport is weight based, not money based
They said the AOA indicator wasnt cheap... i guess thats where the priced goes to haha just playing.
After flying around in a lot of GA planes I have to say AoA is something I wish I had from the beginning. I'm not a private pilot or LSA pilot but I have friends that let me fly with them and perform landings and such. With AoA I could see myself nailing perfect landings every time.
I like the picture that was shown of the future dashboard. Keeps getting better looking.
Another excellent addition to the A5 project. Kirk, I have said it before, I'll say it again, outstanding team, outstanding accomplishments. Look forward to touching base at Osh and congratulations on the AoA accomplishment a beautiful pairing with the spin recovery and BSR systems. Win, win, win.
This video inspired me to build an audio angle of attack indicator for gliders. Thanks you.
I'll have to get one of these in the next life, all the good stuff is coming out now!! (Dear Worlds Fair,
I attended the World of Tomorrow exhibition. It's now 2019.....the future still has not happened. Thanks for the lowered expectations!)
ICON is a great small aircraft company in California, Not many left here. I own a small manufacturing business and have done some work for them, The people there are Top notch to work with. Have not heard much from them as of late, but am looking forward to possibly working with them more in the future. Not many innovative small business left in this state compared to 20-30 years ago. Go ICON!
After having a difficult time flying the other planes in Flight Simulator 2020 I hopped into this thing and had a blast, even if it's a video game its angle of attack gauge is so intuitive to fly. I was like landing on lakes and making low height maneuvers it was like a duck
While not critical for GA aircraft (afterall, GA aircraft have been flying without it) an AOA indicator would be VERY helpful. It would give you a graphic representation of would you are on the speed/loading curve. To say that a pilot would ignore his VSI because of the AOA indicator is like saying that he would ignore his VSI because of his airspeed indicator. You use the available instruments to get a picture of what teh aircraft is doing.
Awesome little aircraft. Living 500 meters from an airport, and 4 km away from the Danube, i'd really appreciate an aircraft like this.
Simple concept that makes so much sense. Hawkins is genius to include this!
The AoA system is a result of the pilot’s flying, not the other way around. Making corrections based on it is like resolving the effect of a problem instead of the problem.
WOW! Now I know what that indicator is on the dashboard of the ICON A5 in MSFS. I've been wondering since I first tried it a few days ago. Logged in 9 hours of flying on the ICON A5. Thank you!
Speaking about implementation of AOA indicator & it will change the way we teach people how to fly, most of the instructors will go, do what ever you want just don't bring it to the red...awesome aircraft~!
Absolutely! AOA is the most primary information needed by a pilot.
Archaic FAA regulations requiring Airspeed, etc. (and not AOA) exist only as an artifact of history -- from the 1920's! It's time for a change. FAA needs to dispense with the requirement for Airspeed, and add a requirement for AOA.
It was never clear to me how it came to the point where pilots are thought to fly airspeed and not AoA. You can stall wing at any speed. AoA is what makes ti stall. Still a lot of pilots have the idea that you fly slow you stall, fly fast you are safe, and that is absolutely wrong. So cudos to you guys doing the right thing,
"we just need another, oh, let's say" $80 million to make this work... "
كام سعرها
Incredible Team, Phenomenal Product
AOA Indicator is a game changer for amateurs and professionals.
An interesting note from the pilot's handbook reads: "If the engine quits in instrument conditions (blind flying when you can't see the ground) or at night, the pilot should pull the control column full aft (it won't stall) and keep the wings level. The leading-edge slats will snap out at about 40 mph (64 km/h), and when the airplane slows to a forward speed of about 25 mph [40 km/h], the airplane will sink at about a parachute descent rate until the aircraft hits the ground."
I have fallen in love with it. in fact, I'm inspired. Someday, I will have it.
Kage Krôss nnn
Why couldn’t airspeed, wind, humidity, etc be computed with a variable AoA into one display, with standard gauges in blackout?
Also add audible warning
A child could fly this puppy! AOA indicator that demonstrates optimum approach vector? I want!!!
Are you going to make a bigger version. For something like 4 people
Stall speed is all about the airflow over the wings. If you are in an envelope which reduces the airflow then you will stall. Where that envelope is depends on many factors, but AOA is one of the biggest factors. Wing loading is another. Wing loading might be the biggest contributor to stall speed. It will determine your effective AOA. The AOA is controlled by the pilot. Wing loading is a manufacturing concern. I hear about the "spin resistant" wing, but I wonder if that comes with a price of raising the wing loading? I am a part 107 pilot, but I also build scale aircraft and wing loading is one of the biggest factor when choosing an airframe. Park flyers have super low wing loading, and so they can fly low and slow, but the EDF jets usually have higher wing loading, so you can get more lift at the higher speeds. Scale usually sits in the middle depending on what you are building.
Power or airspeed is critical to aircraft's stall characteristic. Leading edge flaps or slots can help prevent it but power is still needed
Wow, this machine looks like incredible fun and AOA is balls....
who visit this after playing Flight Simulator 2020? :)
Have you noticed the pitch trim is messed up on the A5 in Flight Sim?
@@Cannabinova I cant even locate the pitch trim in cockpit view
@@juharuohisto5702 It is a yellow strip of vertical lights, below the Garmin display. The problem is if you trim it to TO position in cockpit, it actually trims down.
@@Cannabinova Ahh, I knew there was something weird about it.
At first I thought it was a normal plane
I feel for these people and the families of those who have gone. I have seen new and old pilot's who needed to go back to school. The ground/water is not your friend, it is there waiting to kill you. An engineer who I work with bent two Harvard's while training in the Airforce. Staying alive and safe is a mindset. I have spent years climbing in canyons/kloofs, no one in their right mind wants to fly any kind of aircraft in these places. I nearly bought the 'Farm' a few years ago. It was in a B747-400 over central Africa. We went through some really severe thunderstorms. We dropped tail first out of one of them. Then hit the updraft, this was like hitting a wall. I never thought you could corkscrew one of these things, but we did. The pilots had to hand fly us back to France for repairs. Thanks for the interesting video, this thing is like a flying Jetski on Testosterone. And greetings from Africa.
I will have one delivered as soon as it downloads
Love those camera angles of the A/C in this video!
Seems like a good addition to have to an aircraft, but what happens in the event that the instrument fails? If we make it so that people no longer need an understanding for how a wing functions in relation to all the other factors related to the aircraft, I could see some problems in the future. Definitely a good addition to have for pilots who understand what impacts angle of attack, but shouldn't be a replacement for superior aeronautical knowledge.
C'mon guys! I can't wait any more, I want to fly it!
Simultaneously the antithesis, and yet the epitome of good old fashioned stick and rudder flying. High tech yet simple. Lol. Mixed feelings.
I came here because I love aviation and aerospace, have played several sims, and just got Microsoft Flight Simulator as my new go to sim. I tried the A5 and excuse my french, but in the parlance of our times, I thought to myself, "Wtf is this gimmicky sh!t doing in the introduction to bushcraft section lmao."
That said, I really really love it. Really, AoA is a really key metric to think of when you're flying, even though most planes aren't outfitted with a guage and you're just estimating or guessing it. I've only ever had it displayed somewhere for me (cockpit guage or otherwise) in a military sim.
I don't like the idea of pushing it as the be all end all, let people hyperfocus on this one metric and not really learn my IAS, bank, rotations at each altitude etc. A large fraction of Alaskan bushcraft pilots fly unlicensed... Not saying they should, but it's the reality we live in and it's not my place to judge anyway. I've seen estimates that say anywhere from 5 percent to 45, anyone's guess really unless you have a really well-funded study that'll never happen. I wonder what prices and accessibility of aircraft with AoA guages and cockpits like this will be like in 15 years from now. I know y'all say you're working on bringing affordability up, or were 8 years ago at least.
Anywho, cool stuff, it's a really fun guage to fly, get some more performance out of the craft, and a really great safety feature. I'm just hesitant with it being so big in front of me and my traditional 6 pack being less prominent/somewhat hidden.
What an inspiration aircraft, team of people and company. I look forward to hearing of the A5 coming to the UK at some point!
My issue is you could buy two ultra modern STOL Zlin cub ultras with the turbocharged rotax 915 , one on floats and one on wheels for the price of one of these .. Two brand new far more capable planes for the price of one
Brilliant idea! AoA has been a thing of Business Jets upwards for far too long! Really important piece of information. I'm sure it will be integrated into Garmin / Bendix / Avidyne suites before too long!
Continue with the excellent work. You guys rock.
Also, stall angle of attack may be different at different conditions: altitude, humidity, leading edge surface finish, Reynolds #, side slide, and other. It would be more accurate to use stall indicator based on something else (like airfoil surface pressure, or so) instead of the angle of attack. Practically, it may be a condition that it stalls even AoA indicator says it should not. So you will need to icrease safety margin to compensate errors.
An Angle of Attack indicator: I wish I had this when I was learning to fly all those years ago!
Is this not just an artificial horizon or am I missing something?
It calculates the angle of attack. It tells you which way the wind is moving across the wing and calculates when the wing will stall based on the airspeed. So if you bank 90 degrees to the right and pull hard, the indicator will move toward the red and determine if you're going to stall in your turn. An artificial horizon would just tilt and show that you are banking. This tells you if you're going to stall in your turn, climb, dive, or level flight. It doesn't just show the aircraft's position based on the horizon.
AoA is the angle between the chord line and the relative wind. The artificial horizon shows the angle between the planes current pitch or attitude to the horizon.
Wow, I'm impressed! I would really be impressed if they ever sell an aircraft. The only thing they've sold so far is stock in their company and a promise. Both of them have the same value.
Happy now?
Beautiful aircraft! It seems the ballistic parachute should be positioned behind the prop. Strong headwind+rocket lag/stall would be a problem.
Love this plane in FS2020.
AoA alone doesn't tell the entire story, but it's very close. AoA and a slip/skid indicator would truly tell the whole story. If you have a good AoA but you're skidding like crazy, you could still conceivably stall, because the AoA in a turn is not a constant across the width of the aircraft and the total airflow across the inside wing will be lower in a skid, which would effectively change the AoA envelope on the gauge (unless, of course, they've taken this into consideration and already limited that envelope).
if I would win the lottery, it would be the first thing I would buy. It looks so good and fun.
I'd love to fly this airplane... need to save a few more pennies until they opportunity arises. awesome work.
RE: (`Its an AoA gauge, its been in experimental aircraft for over 15 years`) Who says it`s not ? and of course it`s been around for ages,but to have it incorporated in a light aircraft is a quite a new development.Once again Well done Icon to the Icon team and designers.
this thing is soooo handy, I'm not a pilot but I've been playing flight sim with this little bad boy and damn its nice to fly.
the AOA indicator is revolutionary for general aviation. I'm sure we'll see more of it from other manufacturers. There needs to be a standard, though. Same gauge, same lines, like that.
Impressive product approach!
You could build a hell of a lot more than that for 189k, but the icon is a luxury LSA. For the money, you could build the equivalent, but they already have it packaged up in a well-tested craft.
It's good and would be useful. A very easy to interpret AOA gauuge has been in existence for a long time. It is found in USAF T-38s. Besides the guage, there is a 3 light vertical display that sits in your line of sight on top of the glare shield. A red chevron points downward if you are slow, a green donut in the middle if you are on speed, and a yellow chevron pointing up if you are fast. we "fly the green donut" ...
I love this plane it’s a brilliant piece of engineering, its biggest problem is it’s been marketed wrong right from the beginning and has more or less killed this project.
What will kill this plane in the market is price. A cute plane, but not $389K cute.
An AOA indicator is a great idea. Why not retrofit to your current aircraft?
Once again must I be surprised that the Icon team have incorporated in the cockpit of the A5 and Angle of Attack dial? No! I am not, because these guys do know what it takes to fly aeroplanes. My faith only grows stronger from drawing board to full production of this craft.
Actually, how would the AoA indicator respond to a slip? Say left turn base to final, too high. Left wing gives what, 20% lift, right way less, no lifting body. So the plane is in a controlled rapid descent without laminar airflow disruption, unless the SHTF very quick as any of the problematic factors are factored in when used by an inexperienced pilot. Thanks in advance for an answer... Bueheller?
Aerospace Engineering Student and Multimedia Graduate here. In regards to UX, wouldn't a gauge that starts flat (Horizontal) at zero AoA and also displays negative AoA be more intuitive as well as more quickly inform the pilot?
F-16 has an angle of attack indicator just to the left of the hud. Monitoring it to maintain 11 degrees aoa is a large part of the landing procedure. Another cool fact. F-22 and f-35 can fly in excess of 50 degrees aoa.
Flight instruction will still need the old school lessons of flight before AOA indicators in GA.
Another wonderful Feature on Icon A5.
Yeah, the wing loading on those suckers is enormous!
I want to be a part of this team so badly. Amazing stuff guys. It's my dream to own one of these beauties someday. Unfortunately that may not happen on a software engineer's salary.
😭😭😭😭
I looked at the thumbnail and thought it was a MFS2020 tutorial. That's how realistic it is.
I like the idea of Alpha as primary instrumentation, but noticeably absent is a vertical speed indicator. You are building a seaplane that potentially will need to execute a glassy water landing. With no reference on when to flare, the only way to land is to set up a pitch-power combo that will result in a constant vertical velocity around 150-200 ft/min.
This pitch-power combination changes with density altitude, and must be established at a safe altitude and checked with the VVI, before landing.
Without a vertical velocity instrument, how do you propose a potential customer perform a glassy water landing?
Your aircraft is so beautiful!
I agree so much that cockpits are unnecessarily complex.
OK, sounds good but I'd like to know the mechanics of the instrument. The learn more link doesn't seem to cover the instrument, how does it work? You could easily derive AOA from g force and indicated air speed but would be limited to the range +- CL crit. That is, it won't work while in stall. You also can't use GPS flight path and trim incidence because that would be influenced by induced incidence for the whole aircraft and not give true AOA. Would that matter though? Also flap setting influences CL crit which changes the instruments calibration around the zero lift trim and CL crit changing with Re due to airspeed requires re-calibration of the instruments scale. So I have to assume you have automated these calibrations for intuitive simplicity. So, I'd like to know the inputs used, what auto and setup calibrations have been included and if the instrument can be installed and calibrated to function in other existing fixed wing aircraft. Maybe that's a business secret, nice job though.
does the parachute get caught in the propeller when activated? would be interesting to see worst case scenario procedures in real time as they are a security barrier for most people considering flight.
I would prefer a tape (with a chevron) like in all the modern glass panels, because A5 isn't going to be the sole airplane I might fly. However, it's better to have this indicator than none. There's a reason why the leader of U.S. LSA market, the CTLS, comes with an AoA standard too. It's a great thing to have.
Wow aeronautics finally caught up to what sailor have been doing for years and years and years, AOA in regards to stalling the foils and sails. It's not and never has been brain surgery .
My favorite part of this gauge is the overall aesthetic.
Im getting a private pilots license and icon says it gives its own aircrafts with sport pilot license, can I still get the icon with a private?
I love this plane and DO agree with the AoA guage and its benefits, However, The young lady stated that, due to this guage, "We would be teaching and flying so differently." Not true.... Im not even sure what she meant by that. The fundamentals fo flight remain the same. This guage only demonstrates graphically, what we have already been taught. It DOES make it a little easier to "see" what the flight envelope looks like. It does not change the way we should teach or fly.
Chelsea is cute!
I think she meant that we'd be spending less time looking at a cluster of gauges and be looking nearly entirely at the AoA for things like landings and slow flight. It definitely would be nice to see the limits of your airplane in real time
I LIKE THAT PHASE: "The worst place you can STALL, is.. LOW, and.. SLOW"!!! - It definately can be a addictive pt where you can overcome with it lol.
I love this plane, it's my dream plane. Though it will be awhile till I could afford or fly this plane.
Might be right, Roy Halladay just died in his. Will be interesting to see what the investigation shows.
If I had $385,000 the plane I would buy would be?... Mini poll
Be careful.
The new ad for this plane says, "You fly, you DIE!!:
A good high power single x country cruiser. Like a bonanza or piper saratoga. Something to take a few people a long way for a week. Also something fun to put around in.
"A good high power single x country cruiser. Like a bonanza or piper saratoga. Something to take a few people a long way for a week. Also something fun to put around in."
This is exactly what its NOT.
NOBODY is buying this jet ski with wings to "putt around in" or "to take a few people a long way for a week."
It's designed for non-pilots to act stupid in and pretend they are jet fighter pilots or pelicans diving for food until they CRASH into the drink and die.
Why do you think "Reckles Roy" Halladay is the spokesperson for this POS "aircraft"?
Doesn't really matter any more since after 3 deaths in less than a year including the CHIEF DESIGNER of the thing AND a very famous athlete, this company is TOAST, as in DONE, over and out.
Pay off the lawsuits, declare bankruptcy and GO AWAY..............
This is a great video-very informative, triple thumbs up!
i feel like this will be a game changer
Practical - Yes
More reliable than the airspeed? Not really sure
The physics says yes, provided their sensor works. Low speeds don't cause stalls, high AoA does.
have you thought about the mvp it would be nice to be able to loose that wind screen after landing