Tikka has the ability to blow every other manufacturer away rn. All they need to do is change their twist rates to better suite the modern heavy bullets, and improve the ergonomics of their stocks. If they would just do that in a 7 PRC with a 22” threaded barrel I’d buy one tomorrow.
@@EndoftheBlock7224 my steyr collect is worth more than my car. People have no idea how crazy steyr rifles can be. Everyone wants to talk about useful features on a rifle but somehow never talk about the steyr scout? In my hunting collection alone ive got 2 scouts, a pro varmint that had to be imported (Einer helped me with that LOL), several pro hunters, a CLII and a thb. Sure steyrs dont have the newest of the new cartridges, but they do have all the tried and true cartridges that really are all a hunter, sportsman, or ELR comp guy could need.
@@rpk5250 it’s not necessarily the performance of the gun that is increased. It’s the “shootability” and ergonomics. Which allow YOU to shoot the rifle better. The rifle itself doesn’t necessarily become more accurate. Sort of like upgrading the trigger. The gun itself doesn’t perform any better but it allows you to shoot better.
Bought a All Weather Ruger American Rifle stainless steel 7mm-08 with a 22 inch long barrel for my son. He picked an aftermarket stock from Bell & Carlson out of their catalog and it has an aluminum channel in the forearm and metal trigger guard upgrades. Mounted a Leopold 2-7 power scope on it and he LOVES IT!!!
Cheap flexible stocks can sometimes "slap" the barrel during recoil especially off of a bench rest. Inconsistent groups and fliers drove me crazy until I figured it out. I have some cheap remedies if you can gunsmith a bit. Also glass and piller bedding can sometimes turn a box store gun into a good shooter.
Just from my own experiences and talking to others at the range the consensus is that with the more expensive rifles you're paying for quality control. That's why with the cheap rifles there are ones that shoot like an expensive rifle, but then there's others that can't hit anything. You don't see that as much with the expensive rifles.
I buy things smack in the middle. Browning X, Kimber, Tikka Tx3, Winchester model 70. Good quality, good performance and guns you can be proud of. I avoid the price extremes.
Idk if it counts as "high end" but I love my Weatherby Mark V Accumark. It's the perfect rifle for me in the Rockies, feels great and is very easy for me to use
I ALSO LIKE MY WETHERBY VANGUARD RIFLE STAINLESS SYNTHETIC IN .308 WIN WITH MY WEAVER3X9 BY 40 SCOPE ATTACHED TO IT IT DOES ME EXCELLENT HUNTING WHITETAILS IN THE POCONO MOUNTAINS OF PENNSYLVANIA
Owner of a CVA Cascade and for its price as a “cheap” rifle, you honestly can’t beat it for what it offers in its price range. I’ve been happy with its performance at the range. Just got back from a deer hunt with it too and wasn’t concerned at all with it’s weight, durability, etc, while out in the woods and mountains. Highly recommend over the other two “cheap” rifles in this video. I would like to try that pricey Bergara though!
I do own a Bergara BMR in 22LR and that thing is lights out accurate with a decent scope and good ammo! Squirrel sniper for sure! It’s almost too nice to take into the woods to be honest! 😆
@@sethmatherne7012 Not a wood stock. American Rifleman review article described the stock as "fiberglass-reinforced synthetic stock bears what CVA calls its SoftTouch finish, giving the rifle a comfortable rubberized feel". I like how it feels, personally. I got it in the CRKT FDE/Killik K2 Camo pattern in 6.5 CM. At the time it was an 'exclusive' color pattern to Sportmans Warehouse.
The most important aspect of a firearm for me and I would assume many do it yourselfers is simplicity and ease of maintenance!! If you cannot work on your own gun without needing a gun smith/armorer you have a potential expensive paper weight! I have exactly that, simplicity and ease of maintenance with my Savages! All my Savages are sub MOA with my handloads and I can do all the maintenance myself to include barrel swaps. Hands down the best cheap rifle!!
That cva cascade is a top notch rifle for the price. For me I want the chasis style rifle for the modularity I’m doing a custom Tikka 7prc in a XLR chassis.
@@ElkRyder96 just guessing here, but if they're made in countries that are under CIP instead of SAAMI, they may have to wait until CIP adds a cartridge that was developed and added to SAAMI. It's been a month or two, but last I looked, 7prc still wasn't listed on the CIP website.
We have used everything from Savage from an Axis in .243 compact that we upgraded with a Boyds stock, models 10/11 to a higher end 110 High Country. All have the accutrigger. All have shot really well especially with handloads. The one that blows me away is a very inexpensive used model 10 in 7mm-08 has shot handloads from sierra 120 pro hunter to 139 grain Hornady interlock sub 1/2 minute at 100yds. I also love the tikka rifles. Friends have had great luck with the Ruger American line. I still would love to try out a CVA cascade.
I'd say the real sweet spot of price, performance, feature's and quality control is 600 to 800$. Also most used rifles are very lightly used so if you keep an eye out you can get 1200$ rifle for 800$
One of my favorite features of a higher end chassis is the arca rail. If I have time to remove my spotting scope from my tripod and shoot from the tripod I’m choosing that every time. Plus the folders like the hnt26 are awesome. Have two builds with that chassis. Of course, if I needed to I could sell them off and hunt with the cascade and be just fine.
I do not hunt with a spotting scope and tripod how the heck do you hunt like that. Clearly your not stalking anything. How many factory rifles sold in America come with an Arca rail from the factory .001%? I am not aware of a mass produced hunting rifle that comes from the factory with an ARCA rail on it not from Remington, Howa, Sako, Tikka, Sauer, Savage, Winchester, Ruger etc....Real men real hunters do not hunt with a carbon fiber camera tripod, spotting scope and ARCA rail to swap out their rifle with their spotting scope. Yuppie elitists' hunters hunt the way you hunt. What's next are you hunting Elk from a helicopter and tell us how handy that ARCA rail and silencer you run is during the hunt was? That's not hunting.
I can understand how you feel on this one, but I actually have found the arca rail and tripod setup to work extremely well on my hunts. My son used a tripod from a seated position last year to get up above some brush and make a 300 yard shot. I frankly don't know how we could have taken a shot without the tripod. It was a super open basin, so getting closer with no trees and fresh snow wouldn't have been successful.
A spotting scope, tripod and even the ability to attach your rifle to a tripod are just tools to expand options of a hunt. There are scenarios, like Jim mentioned, that it makes harvesting an animal feasible and ethical. Is it necessary? No. But you could also say a scope of certain magnification isn’t necessary. Or a good rest isn’t because if you don’t shoot freehand it isn’t “hunting”. Some of the funnest hunts to me are using spotting scopes to find game, determine a path for a stalk and leaving behind most of your gear working your way to a shot. Is that not hunting because I used a spotting scope? What about using a rangefinder and pins on a bow hunt? Too much tech? I guess my point is that there are levels of advantage a Hunter can take and it’s an individuals prerogative to determine what’s acceptable in certain circumstances (unless the law says otherwise:).
Im blue collar and raised 3 sons who all wanted to hunt...so I couldnt really go for the big money guns. I have a few just above 1K , but most in the 400-800 range. The most unexpected and accurate gun I own is a 770 Remington in 7mm08....its a tack driver and never has weird flyers or wacky shots. Brand new 10 years ago it was $289...yes it has some cheapness to the stock and bolt until it wore in. But 3 years ago I slapped a Boyds stock on it along with a bipod and its one of my favorite guns to this day. But I would say for the most part my more expensive guns tend to be more accurate and less clunky and feel better when shooting. Although good optics on a decent shooting cheaper gun can really help your accuracy. Most of my scopes are Vortex, Leupold, Hawke.
Problem with rifles like the 110 ultralite is your basically buying a $400 rifle with an $800 barrel. The barrel and accu trigger are amazing, but the action is not great, the mags suck, and the stock does have good adjustment but its very cheap feeling which it shouldnt be for $1200.
@@Nick-sx6jm your right the stock sucks but I really like the trigger however the action works not the best. My issues is i am left handed and its hard to find left hand bolt action rifles. I had considered the bargara but they were heavy for the left version. I also considered christian arms but backfire reported having issues. So my next rifle i bought was Tikka and I am saving my money putting prethreaded proof barrel on it, still think about putting hs precision stock on it or a manners. Which one would u go with?
@anthonymurphy2540 Yeah, I overall like my ultralite, but still need to get the mags to work as they dont feed reliability and have had savage send me more with the same problem. I looked at the bergaras as well but they are very heavy unless you shell out a lot of money for a higher end carbon one. I think Tikka will probably be my next rifle and I would just get one with a solid stock or maybe go the chassis route.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. I have a 110 ultralite in 300 wsm that I bought knowing I was going to put it in a spare MDT chassis I had laying around. The trigger was defective right out of the box. Instead of taking the time to send it to Savage I bought a Jard trigger and installed. Now I have a $2000 gun with a gritty action that does shoot .3 moa with my handloads. If I had to do it over again I would just spend a bit more and build a custom rifle off of an Origin action.
You guys have inspired me to do my own testing and thus far Tikka T3, Mauser M18 and Sauer 100 have all been 1/2” rifles with quality ammo. In fact, the M18 actually shoots sub-MOA with surplus Lake City 147gr FMJ. However, the Ruger American was a total waste of money - 8 types of ammo and never shot better than 2” groups. Additionally, 2 x wood stocked Weatherby Vanguards in 2 different calibers were consistently over 1 MOA - average groups were 1.25”. Lastly, the most surprising rifle - based on a cost of < $350 was the Stevens 334 in .308 and 6.5CM. Both rifles I purchased turned in sub-MOA performance with a variety of ammo. The rifle comes from ATA with an adjustable trigger, but Savage has intentionally disabled that feature (after initially advertising it in their ads) and set the trigger at 6lbs because their lawyers got queasy (that from their customer service rep who was very candid). However, the trigger can still be adjusted down to around 3lbs (read the ATA Owners Manual - not Savage’s), and once done the rifle shoots great and looks great with a beautiful Turkish walnut stock - especially for under $400. You guys should review this rifle sometime - and publicly shame Savage into fixing that trigger. Keep up the great reviews!
Accuracy and functionality are very comparable among budget and expensive rifles nowadays and even the less expensive ones may outperform some high end rifles. However, there are other factors to take in consideration, such as production methods and quality of materials. For example, cheap rifles have barrels pressed to the receivers while more expensive ones have threaded barrels that are torqued to the receiver, allowing barrel replacement and a longer life. Walnut stocks are more expensive to manufacture and fit to a rifle and rifles manufactured with 100% metal parts are more expensive to produce than others produced with plastic trigger guards and magazines. The same goes for actions. A controlled round feed action is much more expensive to produce than a push feed.
The question it always comes down to is; what is it worth to you? Because no, the relationship is not linear. You can buy a $350 dollar bolt gun and put a $200 dollar scope on it and do 92% of what a $5000 dollar setup would allow you to do. It always comes down to the rate of diminishing returns, and where the rate doesn’t meet the return…..for you.
@jimyeats…well said 👍👍👍…my under $300 Savage Axis .308 from Sportsman’s Warehouse with $40 of upgrades from M*CARBO…trigger upgrade with shims (do a search) and their glue in stock stiffing inserts it shoots with much better accuracy than my early 1970 Remington 700 (considered the best in the time) which harvested many whitetail in the middle GA woods at real world distances…is it a one thousand yard tack driver? (which RUclipsr creator’s seem to be obsessed with these days…looking at their content) no…but in a realistic practical world…it shoots well enough to drop a deer at realistic distances (with more accuracy than what was considered “precision” from their earlier counterparts)…just sayin’ 😊😊😊
A very well put reply sir. I am one of those that is fine with 'cheap' rifles ie: axis, R american, surplus.... and find it hard to justify much more than the cost of those types of rifles. For what I do and my small budget, that's right where I fit.
I have a 308 hb axis and used rockite in the stock, worked the trigger, Athlon scope and a bipod. It shoots sub moa with factory hunting ammo . 2/3 moa with ppu 168 gr hpbt $25 a box ammo it pisses a couple guy off I know with how well it shoots because its a cheap hunting rifle. I love savage bolt guns we own a few and they just shoot dam well.
I've come to realize, I dont care how much a rifle costs. but after 30+ years of rifle hunting, I've come to have some must haves and some wants on rifles. The must haves for me are what dictate the rifles I look for and then my cash on hand helps choose the rifle. I could still be using my first rifle, savage 111 wood stock 270. i'd probably have saved lots of money and killed just as many animals. BUT, buying guns is fun. buying lots of cheaper guns is fun. buying expensive guns is fun. we dont NEEED most of what we buy as hunters. just buy what you like and can afford or want to afford
Push feed are mostly position sensitive which is why you have to cycle the bolt quickly, to not get a hang up. My old 90's Ruger M77, my Sako Gray Wolf, and CZ 550 are controlled feed and just don't ever hang up no matter the bolt cycling speed.
As someone who has always owner cheaper rifles, my bergara b14 hmr pro was worth every penny. I know cheaper guns can be just as accurate but this rifle gives me so much more confidence and I can easily shoot out to 600 yards. You could also get a cheap barreled action then put it in a nice stock and trigger if you’re one a budget.
Former ruger American owner here, the magazine is the biggest issue and failing. I ended up replacing the action with a Mauser 98 action, put a houge stock on and now it’s my favorite rifle
One thing to note on your cheaper guns is 2 of them have no place on anything but a vehicle supported hunt where you can oil and dry them every day. Because of that I don't consider anything not cerekoted or stainless to be a hunting rifle(ideally both). If it can't double as a canoe oar and not hurt it, it's not something worth buying for the long term. You can get guns like this in the $800 range. Tikka SS for example. Buddy took a new rem 700 with us this year. Shoots great. Was rusting by the end of day 1. Same with the Ruger American.
I love your content Jim and I am a consistent watcher and I have learned a TON from you as I've only been into hunting and guns the last year and a bit... 2 years ago I couldn't have told you the difference between a .270 and 30-06. If you may allow me to suggest some items that you don't address. 1) What level of effort goes into barrel harmonics and engineering between cheaper rifles and carbon fiber rifles? A meeting with both cheap and expensive rifle manufacturers could be warranted. The stock touching could be a major factor in the harmonics. Does a suppressor mute the effects? Does it improve the accuracy of a cheaper rifle? I'm in Canada and we aren't allowed such devices. 2) I actually prefer a heavier barreled rifle due to the reduction of recoil and a feature I targeted with the American, which 1-2 lbs isn't a factor when I am out hunting - my preference is for the heavier rifles. I remember your quick video of an ultra-light RUM. :) Also in my opinion, my Ruger American is a WAY better rifle than my Browning AB3. The accutrigger and subsequent accuracy I get from the Ruger can't compare to my Browning. I frequently get 2 holes in 3 shot groupings with my American and It is a 1.5 MOA difference between the AB3 and American. The AB3 has more creep and a harder pull out of the box than my Savage .22! The AB-3 was considerable more money and I purchased it not knowing better and feel that I paid extra for the brand name. So I wholeheartedly agree to disagree. Take care and keep up the excellent content!
I love reading thoughtful, kind, and informative comments like this. Everyone thinks about hunting and shooting differently, so it's nice to see what people are looking for and value in a gun. (1) Could be cool to investigate. I definitely see WAY TOO LITTLE testing on the cheap options before they release a new cartridge. On the higher end, they tend to take more time and really dial in the gun for that particular cartridge. (2) A year ago I would have totally disagreed with you. I preferred a skinnier (not crazy skinny) barrel. But this year I've had enough opportunities to see how much better they shoot with a little meat on the barrel that I'm convinced. I'm willing to take a little heavier gun if it means it's more shootable in training and in the field.
Tikka does make a next level action, with a $799 msrp startling point. One manufacturer that rarely gets any love on this channel is Howa/Weatherby. I recently bought a vanguard in 6.5-300 and got a very stiff stock ( in a splatter camo) a threaded barrel with thread protector and cerakote coating that shoots about a 1.1inch group consistently. I realize this gun has plenty of cons as well, however i thought it was a good deal at $749.
Which rifle is in the sub $1,000 category on the chart that's to the far left (most accurate in the $1k and below bracket) or do you have a chart where we can see your results? Thanks and great content as always.
I have the Ruger American in 243 Win and replaced the flex stock with a Pro Mag custom stock. It is heavier and soo much more stable now. It was the best money I ever spent on the rifle.
I would like to hear your thoughts on taking a less expensive gun and upgrading the stock; such as AG composites, Grayboe or MDT. You make amazing content.
I was just going to recommend the same thing. You wonder how many times they put a great barreled action in a cheap stock to make it affordable whereas you take that same barrel action and put it in an expensive stock and all of a sudden you’ve got an expensive gun.
You can do that…but if the same company has a higher end option I would recommend looking at it first. A lot of times you’ll invest more yourself making changes, rather than buying something that was upgraded from the beginning. For example, a Bergara B14 in a synthetic stock can be put into an AG composites stock, like what the Premier already has, but you’re not going to get the rest of the benefits of the Premier, like a stainless steel receiver and barrel (versus Chromoly on the B14), Triggertech trigger or quick disassembly bolt.
I have three Tikkas, one superlite, one varmint, and one CTR. They shoot better than most people could be with them. I also have several Steyrs and they are bullseye shooters too and most of them were under $1200. I agree, pay a bit more and get A LOT MORE. I messed with the really cheap setups for years and found I have way more fun not messing with them.
My go-to hunting rifle is a Marlin 1895 in 45-70 with a 3-9x40 scope because usually I hunt no further than 200 yards. I've been looking to get an AR 10 for some proper long range hunting, possibly with a long 20+ inch barrel.
Just some feedback on the chart at 2:13. It would be easier to read if you made it (left) Not Precise -> Percise (right) rather than how it is now. Also units for precision would be helpful, if the extremes are 1 vs 2 MOA or 1 vs 8 MOA there could be different take aways. That said a scatter plot is absolutely the best type of graph for this. Graphs are hard and people pick the wrong kind a lot. My take away is that it would appear to have some correlation with price lending to precision but without more data it's hard to tell.
I have a love of walnut and maple with a deep blue or a satin stainless. Cerakote is a pass for me, having owned several rifles and pistols with Cerakote. Wears quickly, in my experience. My cheapest rifle is a 308 mossberg MVP Patrol. Truck gun, for bears or active shooter. As far as stocks, as stated above, I am a traditionalist. Walnut, maple, and laminates. I have an Oryx, MDT, magpul Hunter, etc. All ugly to me. Own what you love.
It doesn't matter between expensive or cheaper priced rifles. Its just depends on the shooter. If buying all the extra stuff makes you feel better as a shooter. Buy it. When it comes down to me, if I want to buy something expensive I buy it or live without it. There's always going to be the next great thing, that your paying a lot for that gun manufactors probably pay 5 or 10 dollars for small parts. Do I think their should be guns priced above a thousand for no unless if its a collector. I feel the same way about scopes too but o well.
I purchased the cheapest Rem 700 I could find, then upgraded it over time to make a higher end rifle. That is more fun then just dropping $2k and doing nothing to it.
I like to go mid range on pretty much everything. Cheap is cheap for a reason, and the high end stuff really does not get you anything that helps you hunt better. I have a Tikka T3X with a 3-9x Leupold scope. All in cost about $1100 USD. It's accurate, works flawlessly, and is robust and light weight.
Just go for it, wood can be refinished and guns should be enjoyed and used. I have a black bear and give it hell, it's clean and functional and that's all that really matters.
A Toyota Avalon will get you there just like a Lexus LS. My first trip to Africa I took a Savage M10 with Bushnell 3200 and Savage 444B to Limpopo. My nephew just used a Savage Axis II with Sightron S1 and a Yildiz HPS on his first. The plains game and birds seem to have trouble telling we are not shooting Blaser with Swarovski and Krieghoff.
The high end and middle end rifles are out of my range no matter how nice they are. I'm fortunate that I bought my Savage 116 FCSS years ago when they were affordable. It's very accurate for the first five shots and then the tapered barrel starts to shift a tiny bit. What's hard for me to navigate is that some affordable rifles get super accurate reviews from one source and then someone else says theirs was inaccurate. Now you're right back where you started when trying to pick out a new rifle. I use Backfire as my guide but it's still a crapshoot.
There is less quality control with cheaper rifles. That’s why some shoot lights out and others don’t. On top of that, some believe that manufactures cherry pick the most accurate rifles to send to reviewers.
If you wanna get your start in gunsmithing. Buy a Ruger American. Both of mine took polishing of different surfaces between them so they cycle like a normal rifle.
Great Video!!! I like when you said that "feeding" is the most important thing to you when and why you would pick a more expensive rifle over cheap. My follow up question is then, would you rather have a flat plate metal with the spring, or does a clip work well for you too? (Just in general obviously because there are so many variables). Pro's and Con's of flat plate vs clip?
Looking for the mid range. They are to me the best of both worlds. Browning X-Bolts, Tikka T3s, Winchester 70s. I have others from both ends of the spectrum, but these are what I am seem to always lean towards when it's time to pick one to take to the woods.
As a reloader who gets quite excited over tiny groups I cant help but chuckle thinking about the millions of game animals that have succumbed to the ole trusty soft point bullets that you could pick up at any hardware store back in the day...I do believe the law of diminishing returns is something many of us including myself overlook a lot of times.
I feel like I just got suckered I bought a Fierce twisted rage rifle for $2500. Only bc it has 1.85 twist barrel. I haven't shot it yet, but if it doesn't shoot at least a 1/2 inch group Like my $700 begara b14 ridge or a quarter inch group like my $1500 Christensen arms rifle. I'm going to sell it and buy 3 cheapest rifles I can find
My Steyr Scout is the most worth it gun Ive ever bought! 6.7lbs and a 5shot .6 with m80. Tho, It does drop a bit with the Omega 300 silencer on that whip thin barrel when it gets hot after 10rnds.
Those ruger American ranch rifles are unbelievable in my opinion. I bought 4 yeara ago when they were 300ish $ and wish i bought every caliber they make .
Agreed. I recently picked up one in .233. I got 1 moa at 100 yards, but I think the scope needs fine tuning, AND I’m more likely to blame misses on me rather than the gun I’m going to do a couple upgrades, but out of the box, I like the gun.
Just out of curiosity but whenever he talks about hunting and having a more accurate rifle he's usually talking about 350 yards or more where the difference in a 1 moa and a 2 moa becomes a major issue, how often do people actually hunt at those ranges. I'm from central Oklahoma and when in an area where you can hunt things like deer and hogs your not even able to see 350 yards in any direction. The furthest I've ever been able to possibly take a shot at a deer legally was maybe 275 yards. Now I'm not so arrogant as to assume everyone is in the same circumstances as me but I am curious as to how often the difference comes into play
Out of the box, the Tikka T3X is the king of quality vs cost and has pretty good aftermarket support. Their factory action is smoother than a few of my "custom" actions and their feeding is second to none. Really should have had a Tikka in this comparison.
I feel like manufacturers don’t make fancy looking but cheap stocks because they are worried that that people who are buying their guns solely on looks, wouldn’t even consider a more expensive rifles.
I bought a Thompson center bolt action with a vortex scope combo for 400 dollars in 308 caliber. I got some good rings and ammunition. It's almost junk. I can't shoot more than 3 shots before the barrel gets hot and starts to spread the group. I finally got it sighted in so I can reliably hunt with it. It's accurate enough to hunt with and does a 1.5 group at 100 yards and I have it zeroed for 150 dead on. It shoots 1.5 high at 100 and 3.25 low at 250. The bolt runs good enough for me, but it really bothers me that to get a good 20 to 30 rounds of practice it takes all day. Every 3 shots I have to leave the action open and let it cool for 10 to 15 minutes so the accuracy stays consistent. I don't enjoy shooting or practice with it. I basically get a box of hunting ammunition 20 rounds. First 3 shots I check the zero of the scope after that. I shoot 4 more groups of 3 at different distance to make sure my drops are still right,the last 5 I use to hunt with. I'll never cheap out on another rifle I want to shoot a lot. I didn't have really high expectations for this gun to gun to start with but it failed terribly. I knew it wasn't going to be a long range nail driver and I expected the 1.5 group which is fine for hunting. I did expect it to shoot all 5 shots or full loading of ammunition accurate and reliable. After the 3 rd shot 4 and 5 start getting into 3 and 4 inch group which isn't what I want that sucks. I'll keep it and hunt with it but I know it's very limited ability. I thought about trading it in or selling it to replace it with a better gun but it is so bad I can't put it off on someone else. I've learned it's limitations and I can still get it to work for humanely taking deer. I just can't target shoot or hunt ground hogs and coyotes like I intended to when I bought the gun. I thought I would be able to shoot them out to 400 yards but not with this gun
Who Tee who just featured a Ruger American in .30-06 shooting 150gr Core-Lokt and achieved tighter than 0.50 MOA. Ya just don't need to spend a heap of money.
You don’t need to spend more money on a rifle, but when you do you certainly may get a lot more features for your money. The Ruger American is generally a pretty nice shooting rifle, but the action is rough, the stock feels cheap, and the magazine is cheap. The bluing on the barrel of the one I had was pretty lousy and rusted easily also.
Lol, my wife asked me the same question. Jim you need to do a video on top answers and top poor answers that husbands use. I’m 58 and my wife just rolls her eyes at me when I try to tell her how important my new rifle is and I’m sorry to say watching your videos has gotten me into trouble a few times
Just do like I did. My wife and me have a deal. She like jewelry I like guns so if one of us spends say 1k on something then the other one gets equal spending power on their choice of collection. It works well and also keeps both of us from spending too much because we know it’s going to double eventually.
I’ve worked my way through the cheap rifles up to the premium ones, I’ve found that the majority of the difference comes down to action and stock. On the cheap side I’ve had a Rem 783, Savage 10tr & axis, Sauer s100 xt, 3 models of Tikka, a Vanguard and probably others I can’t remember. With exception of the axis they were all accurate, but the stocks were terrible on all of them and the actions were junk on the Savages and Sauer. Right now I’ve got a Beragara premier pro hmr, Sako finnlight and a Fierce carbon rogue. I can’t find a single thing to complain about with them.
Put it this way: i was getting the same if not better groups with my savage 110 .308 than the dude next to me with the $5,000 rifle with a $3,500 scope... I know ive been shooting for 30 years but damn i thought a much better gun with an insanely powerful scope would make a little difference. Turns out its was really the ammo that was making the difference. His cheap ammo was all over the place and his better stuff was a lot tighter.
Your comment means a lot to me. I had a couple NASTY trolls coming after me today commenting on my vids and it kinda got me feeling down. Thank you for a kind comment.
@@backfire who cares what they think? Lol, enjoy life while you can. Thanks for the information you bring. I love to see people actually enjoying what their doing. Keep it up
Probably costs a lot more to make a non tradiational stock with the cheap materials, and if it fails they are in the hole heaps for the moulds and everything they spent making it.
There’s a lot of nuisance when it comes to inexpensive versus expensive. For example, just in the Bergara line, when you get a B14 it has a synthetic stock and chromoly barrel. The B14’s are all cerakoted now on the exterior, so a decent setup for $700-800. If you step up to a Bergara Premier you get a full stainless steel action and barrel, which is then cerakoted for added corrosion resistance. You also go from an in-house trigger on the B14 to a TriggerTech, as well as being hand assembled in Georgia by veteran employees. The Premier also has a bolt that can be quickly disassembled in the field for cleaning. Just about any rifle off the shelf today will kill a game animal. I think everyone has to be honest with themselves about their level of involvement in the sport and what exactly they’re looking for.
I almost bought one, went with a Weatherby instead. Out of my entire collection I don’t have a single model 70, like I said I’ve came close but it’s never made the cut.
@jaydunbar7538 my next rifle will be a Mark V in 30-378. What I respect about the Model 70 is that they are built like tanks. I got 4 and will get more..its a preference thing really.
I have some rifles that cost $3000.00-$4000.00 that are beautiful, high quality and accurate. But I don't hunt with them. I usually hunt with a Ruger American or CVA cascade on occasion a Mossberg patriot. To be honest, these $500.00 rifles may not be as pretty, as smooth action and have the quality but they are just as or more accurate than the 3-4K ones. I didn't mind getting a scratch on a $500.00 rifle as much as a $3000.00 rifle! My CVA cascade 6.5CM is scary accurate! I probably hunt with it more than any other. Buy what you like and can afford without putting you in debt. Practice and enjoy!
Ya know .I could debate this over and over a million times . I have had the cheapest to some real fine reputable rifles. About 10 years ago I bought a left handed Savage axis a a bit of a bush gun one to not worry about scratching or beating up. That thing shot better then my most expensive rifle in my cabinet . The only difference was repeatability after about 10 shots. The axis would wander a bit the Browning held tight .but who's I tent when hunting is to fire 10 shots In a row at game. I k ow some guns fit and finish is not great but sometimes even the can hold some nice tight groups suitable for ant hunting situation
I think this is spot on for hunting but for those of us who just hunt bullseyes on paper the differences start to matter more. I think the cheap barrels are often good enough for tight groups at common range distances, but chassis flex and heavy triggers in cheaper rifles tend to be their achilles heel.
What you pay for are the tighter tolerances, more engineering development & often unnoticed features, like protective coatings, polished rails & reduced friction points, adjustable triggers, hand lapped barrels. For example, tikka are amazing as a budget rifle, made in the Sako factory, with Sako barrels, but they use some plastic/ polymer parts instead of metal or wood. What else you’re paying for is being “out of the box”. You shouldnt need to buy a new rifle, then get the action trued, put in a better trigger, float the barrel or re-bed the action. That’s where the investment is. That’s why- with the example above, there are lots of upgrades for tikka rifles, but not much for sako rifles, because you’ve already paid for premium quality. But to address another point raised- something more important than weight is the balance point. If the rifle is barrell end heavy, it can be harder to hold on target if you’re shooting freehand as an example.
I'll take my Savage.308 with a 4x12 Vortex for the hunting I do. It shoots quarter size group's at 200 all day long. I only hunt deer in Wisconsin, and don't shoot competition. Don't need fancy shmancy to put food in the freezer.
Will we ever see a new production Mauser 98 in the line-up for comparison sake? I know they are a bit over the price point of the "high end" ones you tested but id like to see how they stack up.
I have something made for the weak forarms on cheaper rifles made and in patient pending but can't get an in with companies. I've tested it on savage axis and ruger american. 6:02
I had a Christensen arms Mesa FFT I got it for $2500 cad. It did not out perform my Tikka T3X lite. It was heavier, ejection issues, floor plate was finicky to close. I was disappointed. I have 3 Tikka rifles now
Love my Sig Cross.. Have a Trijicon TA-55A on it.. But have option's. Sig range system, or other long scopes.. I am wondering.. WHAT one works best??? Suppressed???
Do you need a more expensive rifle? Nope Are they better? Yes Is the difference worth the money? Only the one spending the money can decide that. I’ve got a variety of cheaper and more expensive firearms, and the more expensive ones do tend to have a bit more forgiveness in my experience from things like stock stiffness and trigger break.
Jim, have you considered trying the Seekins PH2? It’s an excellent rifle. I’m not an expert shooter but I get 1/2 MOA groups nearly every time with my 6.5prc. Would love to hear your thoughts on them.
And... I know the Ruger Gen2 American was not out at the time of this video- trust me when I tell you Ruger fixed everything that was wrong with the Gen1. I did not buy a Gen1 for several reasons and I am a Ruger man for sure. I have the Gen2 Standard in .243 Winchester with 20 inch bbl and the Gen2 5.56 NATO Ranch with the 16.1 inch bbl. Also waiting on the Gen2 .223 Remington 20 inch bbl to come in stock at my local gun store. That will be a total of 3 for me. Ruger have outdone themselves with the Generation 2 American Rifle.
In my opinion obviously to each is their own, if you want the high price tag stuff, go for it, you get quality control, maybe some specific quirks and some cool tech. If you just buy the cheap stuff because it’s cheap and gets the job done do it, what matters most is keeping the second amendment safe and keeping traditions alive. Also, I love and want to have a high end rifle but I also want a rifle that I don’t have to worry much about scuffing barrels in brush or trees, or getting dirt in the action on a windy hunt day, so I mean it depends on event, environment and circumstance. But to each is their own.
Tikka has the ability to blow every other manufacturer away rn. All they need to do is change their twist rates to better suite the modern heavy bullets, and improve the ergonomics of their stocks. If they would just do that in a 7 PRC with a 22” threaded barrel I’d buy one tomorrow.
If I recall correctly they've changed from 1/11 to a 1/10 on the 300wm. My t3x has the 1/10 which is ideal. They need to update others.
I LOVE Tikka and my second favorite factory rife is Steyr. Can't go wrong with either and I have three Steyrs and 4 Tikkas
You make a great point. Just wondering if all the Tika rifles you’ve bought and upgraded performed better by just upgrading the stock?
@@EndoftheBlock7224 my steyr collect is worth more than my car. People have no idea how crazy steyr rifles can be. Everyone wants to talk about useful features on a rifle but somehow never talk about the steyr scout? In my hunting collection alone ive got 2 scouts, a pro varmint that had to be imported (Einer helped me with that LOL), several pro hunters, a CLII and a thb. Sure steyrs dont have the newest of the new cartridges, but they do have all the tried and true cartridges that really are all a hunter, sportsman, or ELR comp guy could need.
@@rpk5250 it’s not necessarily the performance of the gun that is increased. It’s the “shootability” and ergonomics. Which allow YOU to shoot the rifle better. The rifle itself doesn’t necessarily become more accurate. Sort of like upgrading the trigger. The gun itself doesn’t perform any better but it allows you to shoot better.
Bought a All Weather Ruger American Rifle stainless steel 7mm-08 with a 22 inch long barrel for my son. He picked an aftermarket stock from Bell & Carlson out of their catalog and it has an aluminum channel in the forearm and metal trigger guard upgrades. Mounted a Leopold 2-7 power scope on it and he LOVES IT!!!
Cheap flexible stocks can sometimes "slap" the barrel during recoil especially off of a bench rest. Inconsistent groups and fliers drove me crazy until I figured it out. I have some cheap remedies if you can gunsmith a bit. Also glass and piller bedding can sometimes turn a box store gun into a good shooter.
Just from my own experiences and talking to others at the range the consensus is that with the more expensive rifles you're paying for quality control. That's why with the cheap rifles there are ones that shoot like an expensive rifle, but then there's others that can't hit anything. You don't see that as much with the expensive rifles.
I buy things smack in the middle. Browning X, Kimber, Tikka Tx3, Winchester model 70. Good quality, good performance and guns you can be proud of. I avoid the price extremes.
Idk if it counts as "high end" but I love my Weatherby Mark V Accumark.
It's the perfect rifle for me in the Rockies, feels great and is very easy for me to use
I’d say that counts.
Trust me that's a bit high end. Have the Weatherby Vanguard Talus and love it, would love a Mark V one day.
weatherby are not low grade at all
I ALSO LIKE MY WETHERBY VANGUARD RIFLE STAINLESS SYNTHETIC IN .308 WIN WITH MY WEAVER3X9 BY 40 SCOPE ATTACHED TO IT IT DOES ME EXCELLENT HUNTING WHITETAILS IN THE POCONO MOUNTAINS OF PENNSYLVANIA
Owner of a CVA Cascade and for its price as a “cheap” rifle, you honestly can’t beat it for what it offers in its price range. I’ve been happy with its performance at the range. Just got back from a deer hunt with it too and wasn’t concerned at all with it’s weight, durability, etc, while out in the woods and mountains. Highly recommend over the other two “cheap” rifles in this video. I would like to try that pricey Bergara though!
Yep because the Cascade utilizes a Bergara barrel. For the money they’re bangers.
Also why there are “hunting” and “targetL rifles. Minute of deer is the end goal for most hunting rifles. The ammo helps some also.
I do own a Bergara BMR in 22LR and that thing is lights out accurate with a decent scope and good ammo! Squirrel sniper for sure! It’s almost too nice to take into the woods to be honest! 😆
Did you get a wood stock or some form of synthetic@@noammobro ?
@@sethmatherne7012 Not a wood stock. American Rifleman review article described the stock as "fiberglass-reinforced synthetic stock bears what CVA calls its SoftTouch finish, giving the rifle a comfortable rubberized feel". I like how it feels, personally. I got it in the CRKT FDE/Killik K2 Camo pattern in 6.5 CM. At the time it was an 'exclusive' color pattern to Sportmans Warehouse.
The most important aspect of a firearm for me and I would assume many do it yourselfers is simplicity and ease of maintenance!! If you cannot work on your own gun without needing a gun smith/armorer you have a potential expensive paper weight! I have exactly that, simplicity and ease of maintenance with my Savages! All my Savages are sub MOA with my handloads and I can do all the maintenance myself to include barrel swaps. Hands down the best cheap rifle!!
That cva cascade is a top notch rifle for the price. For me I want the chasis style rifle for the modularity I’m doing a custom Tikka 7prc in a XLR chassis.
@Meepzopt they haven’t but I’ve take a tikka action in a custom build. Tikka is always slow on the ball to keep up with new cartridges.
@@ElkRyder96 just guessing here, but if they're made in countries that are under CIP instead of SAAMI, they may have to wait until CIP adds a cartridge that was developed and added to SAAMI. It's been a month or two, but last I looked, 7prc still wasn't listed on the CIP website.
We have used everything from Savage from an Axis in .243 compact that we upgraded with a Boyds stock, models 10/11 to a higher end 110 High Country. All have the accutrigger. All have shot really well especially with handloads. The one that blows me away is a very inexpensive used model 10 in 7mm-08 has shot handloads from sierra 120 pro hunter to 139 grain Hornady interlock sub 1/2 minute at 100yds. I also love the tikka rifles. Friends have had great luck with the Ruger American line. I still would love to try out a CVA cascade.
Great comparison video and good talking points. You and Emily do a great job. Keep the good content coming our way. God Bless.
I prefer the middle ground like Tikka.
I'd say the real sweet spot of price, performance, feature's and quality control is 600 to 800$. Also most used rifles are very lightly used so if you keep an eye out you can get 1200$ rifle for 800$
This is why I like living on the east coast. You will rarely shoot long enough where there is any difference between a $500 rifle and a $1500 rifle.
Fine point
I agree with you about the CVA Cascade 6.5 prc. It shoots way better group's than my Cristensen Arms MPR 6.5 prc.
i love hearing you and the wife together. stay blessed.
Thanks so much
One of my favorite features of a higher end chassis is the arca rail. If I have time to remove my spotting scope from my tripod and shoot from the tripod I’m choosing that every time.
Plus the folders like the hnt26 are awesome. Have two builds with that chassis.
Of course, if I needed to I could sell them off and hunt with the cascade and be just fine.
I do not hunt with a spotting scope and tripod how the heck do you hunt like that. Clearly your not stalking anything. How many factory rifles sold in America come with an Arca rail from the factory .001%? I am not aware of a mass produced hunting rifle that comes from the factory with an ARCA rail on it not from Remington, Howa, Sako, Tikka, Sauer, Savage, Winchester, Ruger etc....Real men real hunters do not hunt with a carbon fiber camera tripod, spotting scope and ARCA rail to swap out their rifle with their spotting scope. Yuppie elitists' hunters hunt the way you hunt. What's next are you hunting Elk from a helicopter and tell us how handy that ARCA rail and silencer you run is during the hunt was? That's not hunting.
I can understand how you feel on this one, but I actually have found the arca rail and tripod setup to work extremely well on my hunts. My son used a tripod from a seated position last year to get up above some brush and make a 300 yard shot. I frankly don't know how we could have taken a shot without the tripod.
It was a super open basin, so getting closer with no trees and fresh snow wouldn't have been successful.
A spotting scope, tripod and even the ability to attach your rifle to a tripod are just tools to expand options of a hunt. There are scenarios, like Jim mentioned, that it makes harvesting an animal feasible and ethical. Is it necessary? No. But you could also say a scope of certain magnification isn’t necessary. Or a good rest isn’t because if you don’t shoot freehand it isn’t “hunting”. Some of the funnest hunts to me are using spotting scopes to find game, determine a path for a stalk and leaving behind most of your gear working your way to a shot. Is that not hunting because I used a spotting scope? What about using a rangefinder and pins on a bow hunt? Too much tech?
I guess my point is that there are levels of advantage a Hunter can take and it’s an individuals prerogative to determine what’s acceptable in certain circumstances (unless the law says otherwise:).
I don't "sport" for the experience or memory, I "hunt" to eat so all this mystic hoopla about the magic of "hunting" makes me giggle......
Im blue collar and raised 3 sons who all wanted to hunt...so I couldnt really go for the big money guns. I have a few just above 1K , but most in the 400-800 range. The most unexpected and accurate gun I own is a 770 Remington in 7mm08....its a tack driver and never has weird flyers or wacky shots. Brand new 10 years ago it was $289...yes it has some cheapness to the stock and bolt until it wore in. But 3 years ago I slapped a Boyds stock on it along with a bipod and its one of my favorite guns to this day. But I would say for the most part my more expensive guns tend to be more accurate and less clunky and feel better when shooting. Although good optics on a decent shooting cheaper gun can really help your accuracy. Most of my scopes are Vortex, Leupold, Hawke.
Great video. The Savage Axis is not on the list but it has proven to be a reliable affordable rifle. So far so good.
Agreed, I just got one IN 223 and it AVERAGES 0.55 MOA, none of my expensive guns do that.
I was about to say that too. I picked up an Axis-SR in .308 and it shoots really well.
Wouldn’t be caught dead with an axis. Ruger American maybe.
@@TeensierPythonI’ve killed more animals with a savage axis than most people people kill in a lifetime of hunting
The beginning of your handle, "teen" says it all.........
Many a game animal has complained to me that the low end guns are ineffective, but you know how game lie.
Hahah. True.
Straight up died of embarrassment for being taken with a savage axis where the owner didn’t even bother to upgrade that yellow tinted scope…
I prefer something in the middle! Like a savage 110 with carbon barrel or a the tikka rifle.
Problem with rifles like the 110 ultralite is your basically buying a $400 rifle with an $800 barrel. The barrel and accu trigger are amazing, but the action is not great, the mags suck, and the stock does have good adjustment but its very cheap feeling which it shouldnt be for $1200.
@@Nick-sx6jm your right the stock sucks but I really like the trigger however the action works not the best. My issues is i am left handed and its hard to find left hand bolt action rifles. I had considered the bargara but they were heavy for the left version. I also considered christian arms but backfire reported having issues. So my next rifle i bought was Tikka and I am saving my money putting prethreaded proof barrel on it, still think about putting hs precision stock on it or a manners. Which one would u go with?
@anthonymurphy2540 Yeah, I overall like my ultralite, but still need to get the mags to work as they dont feed reliability and have had savage send me more with the same problem. I looked at the bergaras as well but they are very heavy unless you shell out a lot of money for a higher end carbon one. I think Tikka will probably be my next rifle and I would just get one with a solid stock or maybe go the chassis route.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. I have a 110 ultralite in 300 wsm that I bought knowing I was going to put it in a spare MDT chassis I had laying around. The trigger was defective right out of the box. Instead of taking the time to send it to Savage I bought a Jard trigger and installed. Now I have a $2000 gun with a gritty action that does shoot .3 moa with my handloads. If I had to do it over again I would just spend a bit more and build a custom rifle off of an Origin action.
You guys have inspired me to do my own testing and thus far Tikka T3, Mauser M18 and Sauer 100 have all been 1/2” rifles with quality ammo. In fact, the M18 actually shoots sub-MOA with surplus Lake City 147gr FMJ. However, the Ruger American was a total waste of money - 8 types of ammo and never shot better than 2” groups. Additionally, 2 x wood stocked Weatherby Vanguards in 2 different calibers were consistently over 1 MOA - average groups were 1.25”.
Lastly, the most surprising rifle - based on a cost of < $350 was the Stevens 334 in .308 and 6.5CM. Both rifles I purchased turned in sub-MOA performance with a variety of ammo. The rifle comes from ATA with an adjustable trigger, but Savage has intentionally disabled that feature (after initially advertising it in their ads) and set the trigger at 6lbs because their lawyers got queasy (that from their customer service rep who was very candid). However, the trigger can still be adjusted down to around 3lbs (read the ATA Owners Manual - not Savage’s), and once done the rifle shoots great and looks great with a beautiful Turkish walnut stock - especially for under $400. You guys should review this rifle sometime - and publicly shame Savage into fixing that trigger.
Keep up the great reviews!
Accuracy and functionality are very comparable among budget and expensive rifles nowadays and even the less expensive ones may outperform some high end rifles. However, there are other factors to take in consideration, such as production methods and quality of materials. For example, cheap rifles have barrels pressed to the receivers while more expensive ones have threaded barrels that are torqued to the receiver, allowing barrel replacement and a longer life. Walnut stocks are more expensive to manufacture and fit to a rifle and rifles manufactured with 100% metal parts are more expensive to produce than others produced with plastic trigger guards and magazines. The same goes for actions. A controlled round feed action is much more expensive to produce than a push feed.
The question it always comes down to is; what is it worth to you? Because no, the relationship is not linear. You can buy a $350 dollar bolt gun and put a $200 dollar scope on it and do 92% of what a $5000 dollar setup would allow you to do.
It always comes down to the rate of diminishing returns, and where the rate doesn’t meet the return…..for you.
@jimyeats…well said 👍👍👍…my under $300 Savage Axis .308 from Sportsman’s Warehouse with $40 of upgrades from M*CARBO…trigger upgrade with shims (do a search) and their glue in stock stiffing inserts it shoots with much better accuracy than my early 1970 Remington 700 (considered the best in the time) which harvested many whitetail in the middle GA woods at real world distances…is it a one thousand yard tack driver? (which RUclipsr creator’s seem to be obsessed with these days…looking at their content) no…but in a realistic practical world…it shoots well enough to drop a deer at realistic distances (with more accuracy than what was considered “precision” from their earlier counterparts)…just sayin’ 😊😊😊
A very well put reply sir. I am one of those that is fine with 'cheap' rifles ie: axis, R american, surplus.... and find it hard to justify much more than the cost of those types of rifles. For what I do and my small budget, that's right where I fit.
exactly ! My savage axis 270 has done me great for many years. killed 100s of deer + hog and no issues with this $300 gun.
I have a 308 hb axis and used rockite in the stock, worked the trigger, Athlon scope and a bipod. It shoots sub moa with factory hunting ammo . 2/3 moa with ppu 168 gr hpbt $25 a box ammo it pisses a couple guy off I know with how well it shoots because its a cheap hunting rifle. I love savage bolt guns we own a few and they just shoot dam well.
Absolutely correct.
I've come to realize, I dont care how much a rifle costs. but after 30+ years of rifle hunting, I've come to have some must haves and some wants on rifles. The must haves for me are what dictate the rifles I look for and then my cash on hand helps choose the rifle. I could still be using my first rifle, savage 111 wood stock 270. i'd probably have saved lots of money and killed just as many animals. BUT, buying guns is fun. buying lots of cheaper guns is fun. buying expensive guns is fun. we dont NEEED most of what we buy as hunters. just buy what you like and can afford or want to afford
Push feed are mostly position sensitive which is why you have to cycle the bolt quickly, to not get a hang up. My old 90's Ruger M77, my Sako Gray Wolf, and CZ 550 are controlled feed and just don't ever hang up no matter the bolt cycling speed.
As someone who has always owner cheaper rifles, my bergara b14 hmr pro was worth every penny. I know cheaper guns can be just as accurate but this rifle gives me so much more confidence and I can easily shoot out to 600 yards. You could also get a cheap barreled action then put it in a nice stock and trigger if you’re one a budget.
Former ruger American owner here, the magazine is the biggest issue and failing. I ended up replacing the action with a Mauser 98 action, put a houge stock on and now it’s my favorite rifle
100% right. I can't imagine why Ruger doesn't just fix the magazine and feeding issues. Can't be THAT hard.
One thing to note on your cheaper guns is 2 of them have no place on anything but a vehicle supported hunt where you can oil and dry them every day. Because of that I don't consider anything not cerekoted or stainless to be a hunting rifle(ideally both). If it can't double as a canoe oar and not hurt it, it's not something worth buying for the long term. You can get guns like this in the $800 range. Tikka SS for example.
Buddy took a new rem 700 with us this year. Shoots great. Was rusting by the end of day 1. Same with the Ruger American.
I’d have loved to have seen a higher end Tikka on the list. $1200-1600ish range
Or even a $950 Tikka Superlite.
I love your content Jim and I am a consistent watcher and I have learned a TON from you as I've only been into hunting and guns the last year and a bit... 2 years ago I couldn't have told you the difference between a .270 and 30-06. If you may allow me to suggest some items that you don't address.
1) What level of effort goes into barrel harmonics and engineering between cheaper rifles and carbon fiber rifles? A meeting with both cheap and expensive rifle manufacturers could be warranted. The stock touching could be a major factor in the harmonics. Does a suppressor mute the effects? Does it improve the accuracy of a cheaper rifle? I'm in Canada and we aren't allowed such devices.
2) I actually prefer a heavier barreled rifle due to the reduction of recoil and a feature I targeted with the American, which 1-2 lbs isn't a factor when I am out hunting - my preference is for the heavier rifles. I remember your quick video of an ultra-light RUM. :)
Also in my opinion, my Ruger American is a WAY better rifle than my Browning AB3. The accutrigger and subsequent accuracy I get from the Ruger can't compare to my Browning. I frequently get 2 holes in 3 shot groupings with my American and It is a 1.5 MOA difference between the AB3 and American. The AB3 has more creep and a harder pull out of the box than my Savage .22! The AB-3 was considerable more money and I purchased it not knowing better and feel that I paid extra for the brand name. So I wholeheartedly agree to disagree. Take care and keep up the excellent content!
I love reading thoughtful, kind, and informative comments like this. Everyone thinks about hunting and shooting differently, so it's nice to see what people are looking for and value in a gun.
(1) Could be cool to investigate. I definitely see WAY TOO LITTLE testing on the cheap options before they release a new cartridge. On the higher end, they tend to take more time and really dial in the gun for that particular cartridge.
(2) A year ago I would have totally disagreed with you. I preferred a skinnier (not crazy skinny) barrel. But this year I've had enough opportunities to see how much better they shoot with a little meat on the barrel that I'm convinced. I'm willing to take a little heavier gun if it means it's more shootable in training and in the field.
I'll stick with my cva cascade. This thing is a gem honestly for the price I paid for it
I'd love to see you do a comparison between a Savage 110 high country and a CVA Cascade XT in 6.5 PRC at the range
Tikka does make a next level action, with a $799 msrp startling point.
One manufacturer that rarely gets any love on this channel is Howa/Weatherby. I recently bought a vanguard in 6.5-300 and got a very stiff stock ( in a splatter camo) a threaded barrel with thread protector and cerakote coating that shoots about a 1.1inch group consistently.
I realize this gun has plenty of cons as well, however i thought it was a good deal at $749.
Which rifle is in the sub $1,000 category on the chart that's to the far left (most accurate in the $1k and below bracket) or do you have a chart where we can see your results? Thanks and great content as always.
I have the Ruger American in 243 Win and replaced the flex stock with a Pro Mag custom stock. It is heavier and soo much more stable now. It was the best money I ever spent on the rifle.
I would like to hear your thoughts on taking a less expensive gun and upgrading the stock; such as AG composites, Grayboe or MDT. You make amazing content.
Upgrading the barrel and having it professionally bedded, or having the original barrel rebedded on the original stock could be useful.
I was just going to recommend the same thing. You wonder how many times they put a great barreled action in a cheap stock to make it affordable whereas you take that same barrel action and put it in an expensive stock and all of a sudden you’ve got an expensive gun.
You can do that…but if the same company has a higher end option I would recommend looking at it first. A lot of times you’ll invest more yourself making changes, rather than buying something that was upgraded from the beginning.
For example, a Bergara B14 in a synthetic stock can be put into an AG composites stock, like what the Premier already has, but you’re not going to get the rest of the benefits of the Premier, like a stainless steel receiver and barrel (versus Chromoly on the B14), Triggertech trigger or quick disassembly bolt.
Another nice, informative video. Thanks for the info!
I have three Tikkas, one superlite, one varmint, and one CTR. They shoot better than most people could be with them. I also have several Steyrs and they are bullseye shooters too and most of them were under $1200. I agree, pay a bit more and get A LOT MORE. I messed with the really cheap setups for years and found I have way more fun not messing with them.
dude i love the red desert of St. George
It’s pretty awesome. Though I admit that sometimes I miss the pine trees, but that’s just an hour and a half a half away in Brianhead.
My go-to hunting rifle is a Marlin 1895 in 45-70 with a 3-9x40 scope because usually I hunt no further than 200 yards. I've been looking to get an AR 10 for some proper long range hunting, possibly with a long 20+ inch barrel.
Just some feedback on the chart at 2:13. It would be easier to read if you made it (left) Not Precise -> Percise (right) rather than how it is now. Also units for precision would be helpful, if the extremes are 1 vs 2 MOA or 1 vs 8 MOA there could be different take aways.
That said a scatter plot is absolutely the best type of graph for this. Graphs are hard and people pick the wrong kind a lot.
My take away is that it would appear to have some correlation with price lending to precision but without more data it's hard to tell.
I have a love of walnut and maple with a deep blue or a satin stainless. Cerakote is a pass for me, having owned several rifles and pistols with Cerakote. Wears quickly, in my experience.
My cheapest rifle is a 308 mossberg MVP Patrol. Truck gun, for bears or active shooter.
As far as stocks, as stated above, I am a traditionalist. Walnut, maple, and laminates.
I have an Oryx, MDT, magpul Hunter, etc. All ugly to me. Own what you love.
It doesn't matter between expensive or cheaper priced rifles. Its just depends on the shooter. If buying all the extra stuff makes you feel better as a shooter. Buy it. When it comes down to me, if I want to buy something expensive I buy it or live without it. There's always going to be the next great thing, that your paying a lot for that gun manufactors probably pay 5 or 10 dollars for small parts. Do I think their should be guns priced above a thousand for no unless if its a collector. I feel the same way about scopes too but o well.
I purchased the cheapest Rem 700 I could find, then upgraded it over time to make a higher end rifle. That is more fun then just dropping $2k and doing nothing to it.
I like to go mid range on pretty much everything. Cheap is cheap for a reason, and the high end stuff really does not get you anything that helps you hunt better. I have a Tikka T3X with a 3-9x Leupold scope. All in cost about $1100 USD. It's accurate, works flawlessly, and is robust and light weight.
I love my Sako 85 barvarians! Definitely not low end but unfortunately they are just too pretty to drag through the bush 😅
Just go for it, wood can be refinished and guns should be enjoyed and used.
I have a black bear and give it hell, it's clean and functional and that's all that really matters.
I hunt in brushy areas so my 243 youth model works perfect for me, drops them every time. one shot one kill.
A Toyota Avalon will get you there just like a Lexus LS.
My first trip to Africa I took a Savage M10 with Bushnell 3200 and Savage 444B to Limpopo.
My nephew just used a Savage Axis II with Sightron S1 and a Yildiz HPS on his first.
The plains game and birds seem to have trouble telling we are not shooting Blaser with Swarovski and Krieghoff.
The high end and middle end rifles are out of my range no matter how nice they are. I'm fortunate that I bought my Savage 116 FCSS years ago when they were affordable. It's very accurate for the first five shots and then the tapered barrel starts to shift a tiny bit. What's hard for me to navigate is that some affordable rifles get super accurate reviews from one source and then someone else says theirs was inaccurate. Now you're right back where you started when trying to pick out a new rifle. I use Backfire as my guide but it's still a crapshoot.
There is less quality control with cheaper rifles. That’s why some shoot lights out and others don’t. On top of that, some believe that manufactures cherry pick the most accurate rifles to send to reviewers.
If you wanna get your start in gunsmithing. Buy a Ruger American. Both of mine took polishing of different surfaces between them so they cycle like a normal rifle.
Great Video!!! I like when you said that "feeding" is the most important thing to you when and why you would pick a more expensive rifle over cheap. My follow up question is then, would you rather have a flat plate metal with the spring, or does a clip work well for you too? (Just in general obviously because there are so many variables). Pro's and Con's of flat plate vs clip?
Looking for the mid range. They are to me the best of both worlds. Browning X-Bolts, Tikka T3s, Winchester 70s. I have others from both ends of the spectrum, but these are what I am seem to always lean towards when it's time to pick one to take to the woods.
As a reloader who gets quite excited over tiny groups I cant help but chuckle thinking about the millions of game animals that have succumbed to the ole trusty soft point bullets that you could pick up at any hardware store back in the day...I do believe the law of diminishing returns is something many of us including myself overlook a lot of times.
I feel like I just got suckered I bought a Fierce twisted rage rifle for $2500. Only bc it has 1.85 twist barrel. I haven't shot it yet, but if it doesn't shoot at least a 1/2 inch group Like my $700 begara b14 ridge or a quarter inch group like my $1500 Christensen arms rifle. I'm going to sell it and buy 3 cheapest rifles I can find
My Steyr Scout is the most worth it gun Ive ever bought! 6.7lbs and a 5shot .6 with m80.
Tho, It does drop a bit with the Omega 300 silencer on that whip thin barrel when it gets hot after 10rnds.
Other then sighting-/breaking-in range procedure shooting; were does one need 10 rnds of more?
Those ruger American ranch rifles are unbelievable in my opinion. I bought 4 yeara ago when they were 300ish $ and wish i bought every caliber they make .
Agreed. I recently picked up one in .233. I got 1 moa at 100 yards, but I think the scope needs fine tuning, AND I’m more likely to blame misses on me rather than the gun I’m going to do a couple upgrades, but out of the box, I like the gun.
Take a look at the Sabatti Evo US. It's a tack driver for around $900.
Just out of curiosity but whenever he talks about hunting and having a more accurate rifle he's usually talking about 350 yards or more where the difference in a 1 moa and a 2 moa becomes a major issue, how often do people actually hunt at those ranges. I'm from central Oklahoma and when in an area where you can hunt things like deer and hogs your not even able to see 350 yards in any direction. The furthest I've ever been able to possibly take a shot at a deer legally was maybe 275 yards. Now I'm not so arrogant as to assume everyone is in the same circumstances as me but I am curious as to how often the difference comes into play
My old Remington 788 308 win still shoots 3 shot groups at 100 you can cover with a dime I bout it in 1981
I think Jim should start manufacturing firearms he would have some awesome designs
It's like : Why don't guys like him have a gun design in their name or contribute to the design of a mass produced gun .
@@Airon79 it would be out of reach price wise for most people
Out of the box, the Tikka T3X is the king of quality vs cost and has pretty good aftermarket support. Their factory action is smoother than a few of my "custom" actions and their feeding is second to none. Really should have had a Tikka in this comparison.
I feel like manufacturers don’t make fancy looking but cheap stocks because they are worried that that people who are buying their guns solely on looks, wouldn’t even consider a more expensive rifles.
I think I have to agree with your guess.
I would go for the $200 one because the person that had to use it(mop bucket) would make a big difference to. Put wheels on the Sig cross.
I bought a Thompson center bolt action with a vortex scope combo for 400 dollars in 308 caliber. I got some good rings and ammunition. It's almost junk. I can't shoot more than 3 shots before the barrel gets hot and starts to spread the group. I finally got it sighted in so I can reliably hunt with it. It's accurate enough to hunt with and does a 1.5 group at 100 yards and I have it zeroed for 150 dead on. It shoots 1.5 high at 100 and 3.25 low at 250. The bolt runs good enough for me, but it really bothers me that to get a good 20 to 30 rounds of practice it takes all day. Every 3 shots I have to leave the action open and let it cool for 10 to 15 minutes so the accuracy stays consistent. I don't enjoy shooting or practice with it. I basically get a box of hunting ammunition 20 rounds. First 3 shots I check the zero of the scope after that. I shoot 4 more groups of 3 at different distance to make sure my drops are still right,the last 5 I use to hunt with.
I'll never cheap out on another rifle I want to shoot a lot. I didn't have really high expectations for this gun to gun to start with but it failed terribly. I knew it wasn't going to be a long range nail driver and I expected the 1.5 group which is fine for hunting. I did expect it to shoot all 5 shots or full loading of ammunition accurate and reliable. After the 3 rd shot 4 and 5 start getting into 3 and 4 inch group which isn't what I want that sucks. I'll keep it and hunt with it but I know it's very limited ability. I thought about trading it in or selling it to replace it with a better gun but it is so bad I can't put it off on someone else. I've learned it's limitations and I can still get it to work for humanely taking deer. I just can't target shoot or hunt ground hogs and coyotes like I intended to when I bought the gun. I thought I would be able to shoot them out to 400 yards but not with this gun
Who Tee who just featured a Ruger American in .30-06 shooting 150gr Core-Lokt and achieved tighter than 0.50 MOA.
Ya just don't need to spend a heap of money.
You don’t need to spend more money on a rifle, but when you do you certainly may get a lot more features for your money. The Ruger American is generally a pretty nice shooting rifle, but the action is rough, the stock feels cheap, and the magazine is cheap. The bluing on the barrel of the one I had was pretty lousy and rusted easily also.
Lol, my wife asked me the same question. Jim you need to do a video on top answers and top poor answers that husbands use. I’m 58 and my wife just rolls her eyes at me when I try to tell her how important my new rifle is and I’m sorry to say watching your videos has gotten me into trouble a few times
Just do like I did. My wife and me have a deal. She like jewelry I like guns so if one of us spends say 1k on something then the other one gets equal spending power on their choice of collection. It works well and also keeps both of us from spending too much because we know it’s going to double eventually.
Jim, WHEN will you put a cheap limbsaver tuner on that Mossberg patriot barrel and retest?
I’ve worked my way through the cheap rifles up to the premium ones, I’ve found that the majority of the difference comes down to action and stock. On the cheap side I’ve had a Rem 783, Savage 10tr & axis, Sauer s100 xt, 3 models of Tikka, a Vanguard and probably others I can’t remember. With exception of the axis they were all accurate, but the stocks were terrible on all of them and the actions were junk on the Savages and Sauer. Right now I’ve got a Beragara premier pro hmr, Sako finnlight and a Fierce carbon rogue. I can’t find a single thing to complain about with them.
Put it this way: i was getting the same if not better groups with my savage 110 .308 than the dude next to me with the $5,000 rifle with a $3,500 scope... I know ive been shooting for 30 years but damn i thought a much better gun with an insanely powerful scope would make a little difference. Turns out its was really the ammo that was making the difference. His cheap ammo was all over the place and his better stuff was a lot tighter.
Real positive dude. Nice video
Your comment means a lot to me. I had a couple NASTY trolls coming after me today commenting on my vids and it kinda got me feeling down. Thank you for a kind comment.
Don't let the flogs get to ya mate, just people without a life
@@backfire who cares what they think? Lol, enjoy life while you can. Thanks for the information you bring. I love to see people actually enjoying what their doing. Keep it up
As a practice as of late, I've been bedding the breech of my rifle and full length on most.
Probably costs a lot more to make a non tradiational stock with the cheap materials, and if it fails they are in the hole heaps for the moulds and everything they spent making it.
There’s a lot of nuisance when it comes to inexpensive versus expensive. For example, just in the Bergara line, when you get a B14 it has a synthetic stock and chromoly barrel. The B14’s are all cerakoted now on the exterior, so a decent setup for $700-800. If you step up to a Bergara Premier you get a full stainless steel action and barrel, which is then cerakoted for added corrosion resistance. You also go from an in-house trigger on the B14 to a TriggerTech, as well as being hand assembled in Georgia by veteran employees. The Premier also has a bolt that can be quickly disassembled in the field for cleaning.
Just about any rifle off the shelf today will kill a game animal. I think everyone has to be honest with themselves about their level of involvement in the sport and what exactly they’re looking for.
Model 70 is all you need. They dont call it The Riflemans Rifle for nothing.
I almost bought one, went with a Weatherby instead. Out of my entire collection I don’t have a single model 70, like I said I’ve came close but it’s never made the cut.
@jaydunbar7538 my next rifle will be a Mark V in 30-378. What I respect about the Model 70 is that they are built like tanks. I got 4 and will get more..its a preference thing really.
Anything shooting a anything-378 better be built like a tank
I have Model 70, Weatherby, Sako, Rem 700, Rem 600. Love them all
Excellent presentation! On the cheap group which has the biggest magazine and smoothest bolt execution. ?Your favorite caliber rifle.
I have some rifles that cost $3000.00-$4000.00 that are beautiful, high quality and accurate. But I don't hunt with them. I usually hunt with a Ruger American or CVA cascade on occasion a Mossberg patriot. To be honest, these $500.00 rifles may not be as pretty, as smooth action and have the quality but they are just as or more accurate than the 3-4K ones. I didn't mind getting a scratch on a $500.00 rifle as much as a $3000.00 rifle! My CVA cascade 6.5CM is scary accurate! I probably hunt with it more than any other. Buy what you like and can afford without putting you in debt. Practice and enjoy!
What about cheap vs mid range vs exspensive such as the ruger vs a bergara sporter/huner vs the fierce or sig
Ya know .I could debate this over and over a million times . I have had the cheapest to some real fine reputable rifles. About 10 years ago I bought a left handed Savage axis a a bit of a bush gun one to not worry about scratching or beating up. That thing shot better then my most expensive rifle in my cabinet . The only difference was repeatability after about 10 shots. The axis would wander a bit the Browning held tight .but who's I tent when hunting is to fire 10 shots In a row at game. I k ow some guns fit and finish is not great but sometimes even the can hold some nice tight groups suitable for ant hunting situation
I think this is spot on for hunting but for those of us who just hunt bullseyes on paper the differences start to matter more.
I think the cheap barrels are often good enough for tight groups at common range distances, but chassis flex and heavy triggers in cheaper rifles tend to be their achilles heel.
What you pay for are the tighter tolerances, more engineering development & often unnoticed features, like protective coatings, polished rails & reduced friction points, adjustable triggers, hand lapped barrels.
For example, tikka are amazing as a budget rifle, made in the Sako factory, with Sako barrels, but they use some plastic/ polymer parts instead of metal or wood. What else you’re paying for is being “out of the box”. You shouldnt need to buy a new rifle, then get the action trued, put in a better trigger, float the barrel or re-bed the action. That’s where the investment is. That’s why- with the example above, there are lots of upgrades for tikka rifles, but not much for sako rifles, because you’ve already paid for premium quality.
But to address another point raised- something more important than weight is the balance point. If the rifle is barrell end heavy, it can be harder to hold on target if you’re shooting freehand as an example.
$0.25 part.... means $5 additional cost in manufacturing. Additional labor, but also reduced output, which raises per rifle cost.
I'll take my Savage.308 with a 4x12 Vortex for the hunting I do. It shoots quarter size group's at 200 all day long. I only hunt deer in Wisconsin, and don't shoot competition.
Don't need fancy shmancy to put food in the freezer.
You should try out a 6.5 creedmoor, they're pretty slick.
Will we ever see a new production Mauser 98 in the line-up for comparison sake? I know they are a bit over the price point of the "high end" ones you tested but id like to see how they stack up.
I have something made for the weak forarms on cheaper rifles made and in patient pending but can't get an in with companies. I've tested it on savage axis and ruger american. 6:02
You probably never will you’d be better off working on producing it after market yourself
@@peternorton5648 considering that as well!
Didnt bother checking out CZ? I know the 600s have had their PR and callback issues but would of loved to hear your take on them
Haven’t been able to try the 600 yet. If I get a chance, I definitely will.
I just snagged a silly savage with a super nice magpul stock!! Impressive
Nice!
I had a Christensen arms Mesa FFT I got it for $2500 cad. It did not out perform my Tikka T3X lite. It was heavier, ejection issues, floor plate was finicky to close. I was disappointed. I have 3 Tikka rifles now
Winchester model 94 30/30 all day!!!!!!!!
Jim needs a Seekins
Just fyi if anyones looking for that bergara its called the divide not the wilderness
Love my Sig Cross.. Have a Trijicon TA-55A on it.. But have option's. Sig range system, or other long scopes.. I am wondering.. WHAT one works best??? Suppressed???
Fun fact CVA uses Bergara Barrels. Thats why they’re so accurate
Backfire I would like to see a video on Inexpensive AR or other Semi Auto platform rifles that are very Accurate
Cool idea. I like that.
Do you need a more expensive rifle? Nope
Are they better? Yes
Is the difference worth the money? Only the one spending the money can decide that. I’ve got a variety of cheaper and more expensive firearms, and the more expensive ones do tend to have a bit more forgiveness in my experience from things like stock stiffness and trigger break.
Jim, have you considered trying the Seekins PH2? It’s an excellent rifle. I’m not an expert shooter but I get 1/2 MOA groups nearly every time with my 6.5prc. Would love to hear your thoughts on them.
And... I know the Ruger Gen2 American was not out at the time of this video- trust me when I tell you Ruger fixed everything that was wrong with the Gen1. I did not buy a Gen1 for several reasons and I am a Ruger man for sure. I have the Gen2 Standard in .243 Winchester with 20 inch bbl and the Gen2 5.56 NATO Ranch with the 16.1 inch bbl. Also waiting on the Gen2 .223 Remington 20 inch bbl to come in stock at my local gun store. That will be a total of 3 for me. Ruger have outdone themselves with the Generation 2 American Rifle.
Love that 22 creed shirt!
When you buy too many expensive rifles and can't afford a foldable table 😉. Thanks for the info
In my opinion obviously to each is their own, if you want the high price tag stuff, go for it, you get quality control, maybe some specific quirks and some cool tech. If you just buy the cheap stuff because it’s cheap and gets the job done do it, what matters most is keeping the second amendment safe and keeping traditions alive. Also, I love and want to have a high end rifle but I also want a rifle that I don’t have to worry much about scuffing barrels in brush or trees, or getting dirt in the action on a windy hunt day, so I mean it depends on event, environment and circumstance. But to each is their own.