Adventism Rejects the Deity of Christ
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Clip from "Is Seventh Day Adventism a Cult?"
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#seventhdayadventism #theology #religion
I am adventist and this is not true. We believe Jesus is God. Unfortunately, until an actual adventist who is not bitter or holds a grudge against adventists, lies will be peddled. The trinity is one of the fundamental beliefs of the adventist church.
The clip sounds like Preston was going to challenge him before the clip was cut. Maybe this is just a bad edit 😕
I believe the guy is speaking about their theology. I attended "Sabbath school" once (I was visiting the church with a distance relative at the time) and I heard someone openly say that Jesus is not God. So this guy ain't lying. Some appear to believe Jesus is God and others don't.
@@susanma3483There are people in every denomination that believe something that is out of the way. So you are going to take one persons comment when you went to Sabbath School one time and take this as the SDA churches' belief? If I say that the the sky is green are you going to say that all science teachers are no good because I said something odd? Perhaps there is something wrong with my vision or my understanding of colors. There are 20 million SDA believers around the world. If you believe that some of them will not say or do something awkward; there is a problem with understanding human beings. Please look at the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of the SDA church. They are all online for anyone to see. There are no hidden doctrines.
@susanma3483 What is important is the official position of the church not what a few members here and there believe. He is not quoting the official position. That is disingenuous and intellectually dishonest
@@lifestylesoftheafricanremn9219 The man is quoting truth. Might be heard to hear but it is what it is. The religion is a cult and not true biblical Christianity. I know this by firsthand experience.
This is like inviting an Athiest to explain Christianity to you...
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I GO TO AN ADVENTIST CHURCH AND I CAN TESTIFY THAT WE DO NOT REJECT THE DEITY OF CHRIST! DO NOT BE MISLED BY THIS VIDEO.
This is getting silly now, Adventists DO NOT REJECT- sigh why bother
Exactly!! Once I saw the title I refuse to watch👎🏾 And its with the same guy from the "Is Adventism A Cult video." Please get a real Bible believing, Christ loving 7th Day Adventist to interview. Not this guy regurgitating misinformation like all the other non Adventist/ex-Adventist. Really disappointed in the Perry's. I'll be unsubscribing from all their platforms ✌🏾
Pure Lies. Look at what we believe on the 28 fundamental beliefs you will quickly know we believe in the Divinity of Christ.
I’m so disappointed with this series. As a SDA i cannot relate to anything being said as it’s not what is taught in church at all
Now this is just pure deception. Please go check the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of SDAs and it clearly states in the 2nd and 4th that we believe Christ is God. Please also read the Desire of Ages AT LEAST so you actually know Ellen G White’s thoughts on Christ. It’s disappointing how you’re using your platform to spread misinformation like this.
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I'll subscribe again when they bring an actual pastor or someone in the Adventist faith on this podcast. Otherwise this is just flat out disrespectful.
Yep. This is how I look at it as an SDA. They can lie, misrepresent, name call, and slander, but that will never change the reality: Jesus Christ is the eternal God part of the Trinity, Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savoir, I am saved and justified by faith in Christ atoning blood, I am sanctified by the Spirit, the Bible and the Bible only is my rule of faith by which every doctrine and individual is tested including Ellen White, God's moral law has never changed, the seventh day Sabbath is validated by the full authority of the scriptures, there is a Judgement before the second coming in which God will judge every work "with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil", humans are not immortal and the righteous will receive immortality at the second coming, the righteous dead are sleeping in their graves awaiting the resurrection at Christ second coming, and daily I must "grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ". This is what makes me a Seventh Day Adventist.
The title of this clip? Come on Perrys, I expected better.
I don’t know much or really anything about the SDA but if I was to just watch this video I would believe in the narrative it’s selling and move on. But from reading the comments seems like the SDAs are calling this untrue which leads me to wonder what is the intent.
I would say if there is a mistake here that we go to our brothers and sisters and quash it and ask for forgiveness. As a believer in God and His Son Jesus and The Holy Spirit going to church on a different day shouldn’t divide us but of course we have to be accountable for what word we are preaching and bringing people to.
So here I am back again because I had to look more into this being that I knew very little to nothing. I truly believe the SDA should actually look deeper into the doctrine they may not fully know the history behind and are defending because the information is really just on their website lol and the clear word Bible translation that clearly states Jesus is Michael.
I don’t think people truly grasp that YOU HAVE TO READ AND LEARN THE WORD YOURSELF. Also when you don’t know as you get closer to God He will reveal so much to you. Before I would defend anything I must run it through God. This is not ultimately just about SDA, LDS, JW, etc… it’s about God. Any Christian church can and will go against the truth but we must keep searching and learning about God that we don’t fall into the deceit of mankind.
I appreciate your kind comment. This is what I believe as a Seventh Day Adventist: Jesus Christ is the eternal God part of the Trinity, Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savoir, I am saved and justified by faith in Christ atoning blood, I am sanctified by the Spirit, the Bible and the Bible only is my rule of faith by which every doctrine and individual is tested including Ellen White, God's moral law has never changed, the seventh day Sabbath is validated by the full authority of the scriptures, there is a Judgement before the second coming in which God will judge every work "with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil", humans are not immortal and the righteous will receive immortality at the second coming, the righteous dead are sleeping in their graves awaiting the resurrection at Christ second coming, and daily I must "grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ". This is what makes me a Seventh Day Adventist.
This information is not accurate & extremely misleading. I was born and raised in the Seventh-day Adventist (SDA) church, and my father is a well-studied pastor in the SDA church. I can confidently say that we believe:
1. Jesus is the eternal God.
2. Jesus died for the sins of the world.
3. We are saved by grace through faith, not by works.
I have read many of Ellen G. White's books cover to cover, including "The Great Controversy," and her writings consistently teach these same truths.
To the Perry family, I gave you "The Great Controversy" book a long time ago in gift bags when you were on a poetry tour (they were big books lol). If you still have them, please open them up and read them for yourselves to see what they say.
The information in this video is not accurate, and I hope all who watch it will do their own research.
I watched the Perrys and admire these two young people for their kingdom work. I do not belong to the cancel culture so I will not unsubscribe but as an Adventists I can say we are not cults. We believe in the Trinity. We believe that God gave prophetic words to Ellen White to share with the church. We DO NOT esteem her writings above the Word of God. We are a Bible believing church. All 66 books. I’m not here to defend God’s truths because He alone is God and will vindicate Himself. Disgruntled people are not validation sources for truth❤
Why would you still chose to subscribe to people who are bearing false witness and too lazy to do the most basic research?
It’s so disappointing to see this irresponsible stewardship of your platform. Please do your own research. My husband and I usually enjoy and relate to this channel, but this was a hard watch. Praying that Jesus Christ, the eternal God, will lead you to the truth.
@user-jf6oi4fh7bnobody bats an eye when an ex-JW, ex-Muslim or ex-Catholic speaks about why they left their past faith and we take it as a true representation of said faith. This is no different. If testimony from a victim of a crime can be heard in court then so can an ex-SDA be heard on his former religion. It doesn’t sound like this man had church hurt, he was just disappointed that nobody was willing to answer his questions.
It was very sad and hurtful indeed
Not seeing this ANYWHERE on their site.
Adventist Fundamental Belief
#4
The Bible frequently mentions the “Son of God.” But how can God have a “son,” and what should that mean to us?
Let us keep in mind that Jesus is the Son not in the sense of having been created, but because He partakes of the same divine nature as God the Father. Adventists embrace the belief that Jesus is the eternal Son of God, and is also fully God Himself and part of the Godhead. He was sent to earth to minister to us, live as our example, and ultimately bear the eternal punishment of our sins. He is now our advocate, our High Priest, the relatable link between us and God the Father.
I can't listen to this foolishness anymore. I am done with the series.please get a real, true SDA on the podcast!
As someone who values fair and respectful dialogue, I urge all Seventh-Day Adventists who support the WiththePerrys ministry to consider discontinuing their support for this channel. Please keep them in your prayers. It is evident that they are not committed to a balanced discussion, as they have not invited active, recognized, and respected SDA pastors to participate in the conversation. (I will stand corrected when the Perrys publicly correct this with the name(s) & date(s) of near future planned conversations.) Instead, they continue to produce content that damages and slanders the Seventh-Day Adventist Church by labeling it a cult. This is disappointing and contrasts sharply with their treatment of other faiths on the channel.
Mason's repeated use of outdated rhetoric and false claims, which the SDA Church has addressed with reasonable biblical apologetics over the years, is particularly concerning. This behavior appears to be a strategy to increase social media views and revenue rather than fostering genuine understanding at this point. Seems to me as if they are just reading from exAdventist sources/books and presenting it as truth to confuse those who do not know what SDA's believe (within and out of the faith). A strategy I see here being employed quite a bit is the use of strawman arguments - misrepresenting or twisting subtly what SDA's believe to then refute it. This is a logical fallacy in argument. This is now the fifth (at least that I'm aware of) video segment produce by the Perry's with Mason and Thunder leading the charge with falsities against the SDA church. We now know where the Perrys stand and I would strongly urge a boycott of this channel by Adventists. It is very clear what this ministry is about now.
I can't support these guys who don't care about making bold-faced lies.
I noticed something interesting in a podcast they put up about how "the Christian church" (which they are trying to identify while claiming to be) has always been good at gathering, but not organizing. SDAs have always been very good organizers who have not struggled to gather, rather endured- & allowed God alone to open & shut doors only He can. Listening to anti SDA podcasts have only strengthened my Faith & led me to study with even more enthusiasm to know better what Gods Word says with so much joy!! Nothing that is being said is new! Many are being led to misunderstand on purpose. But, many are also being strengthened & coming into the folds of God's kingdom as they wholeheartedly seek, many for the FIRST TIME🙌🙏😍♥️ He is certainly working ALL THINGS together, for the GOOD, of Those who Love Him. & if we love God, we will, by default, obey His Commands, with Hope & Praise in our hearts absolutely, no matter what comes😭🙌❤️
A little concerning to me that this clip is promoting something with no proof. Is there an Adventist group other than 7th Day?
This is false. As an Adventist, I believe in the diety of Christ!.
Raised in the Adventist church, my father was a church elder. I’m telling you this is a lie. SDAs believe in the Trinity and definitely the deity of Christ. You’re in GA, there are Adventist churches there, go visit one and have a conversation. This video is wrong and irresponsible.
Ellen White did not believe in the trinity for decades. Many SDA churches still do not.
Please stop the flagrant slander against my church. I was born and raised Seventh Day Adventist and have and continue to study our doctrines. The ex-SDA evangelist that is being relied on for sourcing of Adventist doctrines is clearly not being honest about what exactly we believe- check your comments you will see many Adventists there are who disagree with him.
Eric Mason and Preston Perry, it's time for you both to study to show yourselves approved unto God.
Take some time and really study out what we preach and teach with an actual current, well studied Adventist minister or lay person. You cannot rightly divide the word of truth if you do not understand it.
The ex SDA is really is quite off the mark. If you really want an honest study on what Seventh Day Adventists actually believe you must speak with an actual current member or pastor who is well studied in our biblical doctrines.
This is how I look at it as a Seventh Day Adventist. They can lie, misrepresent, name call, and slander, but that will never change the reality: Jesus Christ is the eternal God part of the Trinity, Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savoir, I am saved and justified by faith in Christ atoning blood, I am sanctified by the Spirit, the Bible and the Bible only is my rule of faith by which every doctrine and individual is tested including Ellen White, God's moral law has never changed, the seventh day Sabbath is validated by the full authority of the scriptures, there is a Judgement before the second coming in which God will judge every work "with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil", humans are not immortal and the righteous will receive immortality at the second coming, the righteous dead are sleeping in their graves awaiting the resurrection at Christ second coming, and daily I must "grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ". This is what makes me a Seventh Day Adventist.
SDAs: “Hey these accusations are false, we are being misrepresented. Here are some leaders that would be willing to speak with you and engage in meaningful, biblical discussions.”
The Perry’s: Digs all ten toes in and posts 3 more slanderous videos 🥴🫠.
All good though, God will use it all for his glory!
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This is how I look at it. They can lie, misrepresent, name call, and slander, but that will never change the reality: Jesus Christ is the eternal God part of the Trinity, Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savoir, I am saved and justified by faith in Christ atoning blood, I am sanctified by the Spirit, the Bible and the Bible only is my rule of faith by which every doctrine and individual is tested including Ellen White, God's moral law has never changed, the seventh day Sabbath is validated by the full authority of the scriptures, there is a Judgement before the second coming in which God will judge every work "with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil", humans are not immortal and the righteous will receive immortality at the second coming, the righteous dead are sleeping in their graves awaiting the resurrection at Christ second coming, and daily I must "grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ". This is what makes me a Seventh Day Adventist.
Perry’s - I like you all but PLEASE PLEASE go to the leadership or any pastor or member of the Adventist church to get the truth of what Adventist believe - Adventist believe in God, Jesus and Holy Spirit just like you Perry’s - Adventist are Christians just like you except you worship on Sunday and Adventist worship on the 7th day sabbath
I agree with this. The lies about our belief are now hurtful. Nonetheless, we keep it moving.
That part!!! Cuz I was raised SDA!! Been all of my life and I don’t think everyone got a true understanding of anything here!!!! This was not the move… Definitely should have gotten someone else. Like you said a leader.
He is so wrong! I wonder which Adventist church he is talking about. I've been a member of the Adventist Church for over 3 decades. The Church strongly believes in the trinity(Godhead). It is our fundermental belief #2.
We also strongly believe in the deity of Christ. There's no other denomination I know of that upholds the deity of Jesus like the Adventist Church. The belief in Christ and His deity is our fundamental belief #4. The man obviously doesn't know what he is talking about.
These series are disingenuous towards SDA by using “Ex Adventist” to examine what is “taught” in the faith. Until an actual SDA comes on to defend the faith TRUTHFULLY. These videos need a different title. Adventists do not reject the deity of Christ.
Look at Fundamental belief #4
“4. God the Son (Jesus Christ)
God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ. Through Him all things were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished, and the world is judged.
Forever truly God, He became also truly human, Jesus the Christ. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He lived and experienced temptation as a human being, but perfectly exemplified the righteousness and love of God.
By His miracles He manifested God’s power and was attested as God’s promised Messiah. He suffered and died voluntarily on the cross for our sins and in our place, was raised from the dead, and ascended to heaven to minister in the heavenly sanctuary on our behalf.
He will come again in glory for the final deliverance of His people and the restoration of all things.”
(Isa. 53:4-6; Dan. 9:25-27; Luke 1:35; John 1:1-3, 14; 5:22; 10:30; 14:1-3, 9, 13; Rom. 6:23; 1 Cor. 15:3, 4; 2 Cor. 3:18; 5:17-19; Phil. 2:5-11; Col. 1:15-19; Heb. 2:9-18; 8:1, 2.)”
Jesus Christ is not a created being..He has always been eternal and is fully God. Please stop sharing this biased “Ex Adventists…”
Never have we seen you guys use “Ex” members to justify what “Doctrinal Faiths” a denomination upholds. This “Poisoning the well” analogy really needs to stop.
Your comment is the only comment that I’ve seen to actually address a fundamental belief. Much respect. Most comments on here are just spouting how wrong the Ex Adventist is about SDA theology without even addressing anything in particular they felt was false theology the Ex Adventist communicated in this podcast.
@@LovehardFightharder_ Glory to God! Please continue to pray for me. I haven’t started my ministry page on YT as of yet but it’s coming soon. But individuals like the person in the video will continue to breathe new life into the making of genuine SDA podcasts. To address and bring awareness to people spreading misinformation. There’s always two sides to any argument, but Gods word will always be true. We mustn’t be surprised by these claims either because Paul said it best in Acts 20:29
“For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.” (Act 20:29, KJV)
If people just took the time to do genuine Bible study and apply the teaching of the Bible unbiased…you’d be surprised at what God will reveal to you. Let the Bible interpret the Bible.
@@LovehardFightharder_I posted the location of all the 28 fundamental beliefs on most of these 5 videos and all those comments were deleted. My other comments were not deleted though.
You gotta love it when you see it!!!!
1. Social media at it's best
2. Haters at workkk
3. Misrepresentation at it's finest.
One thing I that would have made this more respectable is if receipts (evidence) were included.
But then again, I'm sure anything quoted from any SDA teaching would have been taken out of context.
- from an SDA
This is how I look at it as an SDA. They can lie, misrepresent, name call, and slander, but that will never change the reality: Jesus Christ is the eternal God part of the Trinity, Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savoir, I am saved and justified by faith in Christ atoning blood, I am sanctified by the Spirit, the Bible and the Bible only is my rule of faith by which every doctrine and individual is tested including Ellen White, God's moral law has never changed, the seventh day Sabbath is validated by the full authority of the scriptures, there is a Judgement before the second coming in which God will judge every work "with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil", humans are not immortal and the righteous will receive immortality at the second coming, the righteous dead are sleeping in their graves awaiting the resurrection at Christ second coming, and daily I must "grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ". This is what makes me a Seventh Day Adventist.
Man I have to laugh at this. One search in the Adventist fundamental beliefs will tell you Elce is incorrect regarding current beliefs. Is he correct that the pioneers didn't believe the trinity? Yes. Did this belief change once they received new light? YES. In the episode, Preston asked him point blank if this belief was still held and for whatever reason he flat out lied and said Yes.
So disappointed in you Elce. We know you experienced hurt at the hands of the church but falsely stating our beliefs for clout is disappointing.
Ellen White always believed in the Trinity even though others did not.
@elijahrodgers416 that's not true. Focus on the below excerpt where she referred to Jesus as a created being. In the 1900s she did make the shift of believing in the trinity.
“The Eternal Father, the unchangeable one, gave his only begotten Son, tore from his bosom Him who was made in the express image of his person, and sent him down to earth to reveal how greatly he loved mankind.” EGW, Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, 07-09-1895, “The Duty of the Minister and the People,” Par. 14.
@@necy She was a Methodist. She defiantly was not as forceful in her writings concerning the Trinity till later. But she made her position so clear that it cannot be debated except by those that don't care about breaking the 9th commandment.
@elijahrodgers416 you said she always believed in the Trinity. I showed you that's not true. Even the SDA church acknowledges that. You are correct in saying she later made her adjusted beliefs quite known, just as I mentioned in my OP.
@@necy please provide your evidence that scholars use this quote as proof that she thought Jesus was not fully God
Secondly how familiar are you with EGW writings.
I ask the second question because I know that anyone that has a lot of writings can easily be misquoted and misunderstood. It’s done with the bible, it’s done with politicians and it can be done to me and you. I’m suggesting that’s what you might be doing to EGW with this quote, the way I understand that quote would not be that He was being created when he was being “torn”from the father’s bossom.
Lastly the main point though is in this podcast it did sound like SDAs teach people that Jesus was created and then they lie about it in their documents, this is not true. It wasn’t explicitly stated but it was heavily implied. There are many ways to say things, sometimes people use implications to say the worst things about others.
In this podcast it was made to seem like we have two doctrines, like we have secret books and meetings where we tell the truth and then agree to go out and lie to people. This is not only not true but hurtful because we don’t have such meetings or at least I haven’t been invited to those😂. I have never heard of them. Doctrinally speaking my experience is that people learn what we believe in Sabbath school
Evangelistic campaigns
Reading books
Listening to sermons
Discussions with others
Prayer and reflection
Personal bible study
Looking at nature and how people live
There is no secret meetings where we are taught secret SDA dictionary words and meanings. What you are bringing up by using the quote is using it to prove the opposite of the EGW writings on who Jesus was and it’s avoiding acknowledging that it has been implied in this podcast that SDAs teach people that Jesus was created and then also tell them to lie to people that they were not taught that.
A video title like that, without fact-checking and doing the research themselves? They must got editors putting out these clips because the Perrys I watch are wiser than that.
Bro you're speaking facts...this clip is just for views and hype. As a life long SDA, I've always believed Jesus to be God and was never taught anything otherwise.
I know Preston has to have done his own research of SDA and gotta know this isn't true 🤦🏾♀️
Dear Jackie and Preston Perry.
I want to first of say thank you for your ministry….Im a seventh day Adventist and I came across your ministry few years ago when I saw Jackie’s testimony and I was touched and encouraged at how you boldly you shared your testimony on how Christ changed your life and how he has been leading you as it is so clear you love God and that is so so encouraging in a word where Christian’s often shy away from truth for men’s applause. I have sometimes watched your podcasts however, I must say on this topic I was really really disappointed by the way you handled this discussion. You didn’t give due diligence in finding a Seventh-Day Adventist to give a balanced view on defend our beliefs and this this was not unfair. You should have found someone to defend our beliefs before continuing with part 2. I do hope you do a part 3 and instead of a ‘debate’ you should simply have a discussion with an adventist on what we believe. If you are genuinely wanting to know the truth then a debate style discussion may lead to arguments and people loosing the message on what Adventists believe and therefore not able to defend the doctrines we uphold.
This discussion should only be entered into by people with an unbiased humble heart and spirit wanting to know the truth from
the word of God. Rather than debating with people that are already set in their views. I know of many seventh day adventists who would be happy to have this discussion like my husband …if you are HUMBLE and GENUINE in your search for truth
Reading the comments should indicate to you guys that there is something wrong. 1 guy says we believe that Christ is not God and over 100 comments indicate otherwise... of course we believe in Jesus. Anyway, people will probably say we are angry and deceived despite the math of this video not mathing... (Ps: Adventist of 16ish years).
God will defend His people even when faux intellectuals try to disregard the truth.
This is the point where we have to pray for those who struggle with telling the truth. It does bear repeating that the fundamental beliefs of the church are searchable. We can find fault in denominations or the interpretations of individual believers but let us strive at least to be honest and truthful.
Adventists are Holy Spirit filled believers of our Savior Jesus Christ. Adventists are Christians, true and true!!!
The tirle of this clip is so false! Do your own research! Seek and yiu will find. Just go to God and the Bible for your answers. Mercy Jesus!!! God/Jesus is cominng back soon!😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢
Please have an ACTUAL Adventist present. Most things said were misconstrued I don’t think it’s fair to have a former Adventist answer on behalf of Adventists. Total misrepresentation. Unfair trial.
I am very disappointed, wow . This is just not nice . Hurtful. When is this our fundamental beliefs. Wow
the title is completely false & at this point it’s coming across as slander of the SDA denomination. SDA’s DO BELIEVE in the trinity. It’s completely unfair to run with this information when it is untrue. Please give one of the SDA’s who were willing to speak on your channel and opportunity to speak on the denomination. It’s only fair. This is disappointing, as a supporter of you and your channel this saddens me.
Denominations have divided us.
so true
I’m sensing a malicious intent with no desire to seek to know the truth about Adventists. This title is wrong is every sense and seems to be the propaganda you’re trying to push and it’s quite disappointing.
Based upon the name of this clip and what this so called Pastor and ex-SDA are saying, I have a verse from the Word of God for these lies that are being leveled against SDAs, and please pay close attention to the latter part of the phrase.
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone.... Rev. 21:8
There are other verses in the word of God that could’ve been quoted vs the one quoted to prove a point in a Christ/loving centered manner. I’m also saddened by the misconception/lies regarding the SDA church, “But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection” Col 3:14.
Omg what lies ! This is becoming very sad . Blatunt lies being said here
Reporting these videos as ‘misinformation’ you are doing real damage here
This is not true qbout adventists
Why don't you invite an adventist to come on the pod cast so you can get clarity
AMEEEEEEEN
If he really believes what’s coming out of his mouth, I’d leave too. He is very misguided and y’all are very lazy for not actually doing research yourselves before demonizing a religion of 22 million over what he said. Christ did not tell you to do this, it is divisive and unnecessary. We could use the SAME Bible to prove why YOU are wrong in some of your beliefs but what would the point be? This is wrong and you need to repent, your intentions are not pure
CAP
Such bold-faced lies were given in the time of Paul against the New Testament church. How could one make such thunderous lies and claim to be a follower of Jesus? Do you hate the seventh day Sabbath and Seventh day Adventist that much?
Wow Perrys, I am truly dumbfounded now. It was one thing when you had the podcast, with men who clearly have a vendetta against the SDA church to speak on behalf of that church. But to highlight these fallacies and put them as the title of your clips, it’s as if you are the ones now with an agenda out to ruin the SDA church. Wow, Satan really has raised up an adversary against this church in the form of the Perrys!! I say this love truly, because why this sudden venom against this denomination in particular, as opposed to others? They are being targeted 😢
At this point they are posting these videos and still refusing to bring an actual Adventist on to speak about Adventism. And many pastors have reached out. They claimed a sincere interest in understanding but instead have demonstrated an agenda. They are absolutely not seeking to understand, but to influence. They have indeed provided their platform for the attack of Adventists in particular. It should beg the question: why? What spirit is truly at work here? It is not God’s spirit that leads people to intentionally misrepresent. Beware.
You need to do better research. I have never heard that SDA reject Christ's diety. The difference with this denomination is that they also focus on Saturday Sabbath, dressing modestly, and eating healthily. Please do not spread false messages.
This is most thunderously wrong video about Seventh Day Adventist. If these guys were on the side of truth, why would they make such bold-faced lies? If anyone believes these guys, they are defiantly cultish.
What did Ellen White say about the pre-existence of Christ? The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? What did she believe about the gospel? (Just in case you wouldn't listen to what I have to say)
“The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with the Father. He was the surpassing glory of heaven. He was the commander of the heavenly intelligences, and the adoring homage of the angels was received by him as his right. This was no robbery of God.”
“Here Christ shows them that, although they might reckon His life to be less than fifty years, yet His divine life could not be reckoned by human computation. The existence of Christ before His incarnation is not measured by figures.”
“From all eternity Christ was united with the Father, and when He took upon Himself human nature, He was still one with God.”
But while God's Word speaks of the humanity of Christ when upon this earth, it also speaks decidedly regarding his preexistence. The Word existed as a divine being, even as the eternal Son of God, in union and oneness with his Father. From everlasting he was the Mediator of the covenant, the one in whom all nations of the earth, both Jews and Gentiles, if they accepted him, were to be blessed. ‘The Word was with God, and the Word was God.’ Before men or angels were created, the Word was with God, and was God.
“Christ was God essentially, and in the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity, God over all, blessed forevermore.”
“From the days of eternity the Lord Jesus Christ was one with the Father; He was “the image of God,” the image of His greatness and majesty, ‘the outshining of His glory.’”
“The name of God, given to Moses to express the idea of the eternal presence, had been claimed as His own by this Galilean Rabbi. He had announced Himself to be the self-existent One, He who had been promised to Israel, ‘whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity.’ Micah 5:2”
“There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.”
“The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption.”
“Those who proclaim the third angel's message must put on the whole armor of God, that they may stand boldly at their post, in the face of detraction and falsehood, fighting the good fight of faith, resisting the enemy with the word, “It is written.” Keep yourselves where the three great powers of heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, can be your efficiency. These powers work with the one who gives himself unreservedly to God. The strength of heaven is at the command of God's believing ones. The man who takes God as his trust is barricaded by an impregnable wall.”
“Our sanctification is the work of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is the fulfilment of the covenant that God has made with those who bind themselves up with Him, to stand with Him, with His Son, and with His Spirit in holy fellowship. Have you been born again? Have you become a new being in Christ Jesus? Then co-operate with the three great powers of heaven who are working in your behalf. Doing this you will reveal to the world the principles of righteousness.”
“Those who are baptized in the threefold name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, at the very entrance of their Christian life declare publicly that they have forsaken the service of Satan and have become members of the royal family, children of the heavenly King.”
“The Holy Spirit is a person, for He beareth witness with our spirits that we are the children of God. When this witness is borne, it carries with it its own evidence. At such times we believe and are sure that we are the children of God.”
“The Sacrifice of Christ as an atonement for sin is the great truth around which all other truths cluster. In order to be rightly understood and appreciated, every truth in the Word of God, from Genesis to Revelation, must be studied in the light that streams from the cross of Calvary. I present before you the great, grand monument of mercy and regeneration, salvation and redemption,-the Son of God uplifted on the cross. This is to be the foundation of every discourse given by our ministers.”
“The cross of Calvary challenges, and will finally vanquish every earthly and hellish power. In the cross all influence centers, and from it all influence goes forth. It is the great center of attraction; for on it Christ gave up His life for the human race. This sacrifice was offered for the purpose of restoring man to his original perfection; yea, more. It was offered to give him an entire transformation of character, making him more than a conqueror.”
“Never should a sermon be preached, or Bible instruction in any line be given, without pointing the hearers to “the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” John 1:29. Every true doctrine makes Christ the center, every precept receives force from His words.”
“No discourse should ever be presented without presenting Christ and Him crucified as the foundation of the gospel.”
“The study of the incarnation of Christ, His atoning sacrifice, and mediatorial work, will employ the mind of the diligent student as long as time shall last.”
“On the cross of Calvary, Christ made a full and complete atonement for the fallen race. He died because of our sin. This was the only way in which we could be pardoned. Holiness is the fruit of Christ’s infinite sacrifice in our behalf. It was not for His friends, but for His enemies, that Christ made this sacrifice, for those who He declared would not come to Him that they might have life, for those who chose earthly pleasures and earthly riches. He longs to save those who have given themselves up to the world. He calls upon them to choose His service, to give themselves wholly into His control, to wear His yoke, and learn of Him how to be meek and lowly, how to do God’s will. “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus; who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God; but made himself of no reputation, and took upon Himself the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name; that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
“Jesus is our atoning sacrifice. We can make no atonement for ourselves; but by faith we can accept the atonement that has been made. ‘For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God.’ ‘Ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, ...but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.’ No man of earth, no angel of heaven, could have paid the penalty for sin. Jesus was the only one who could save rebellious man. In Him divinity and humanity are combined, and this was what gave efficacy to the offering on Calvary's cross. At the cross, mercy and truth met together; righteousness and peace kissed each other.”
“If the cross does not find an influence in its favor, it creates an influence. Through generation succeeding generation, the truth for this time is revealed as present truth. Christ on the cross was the medium whereby mercy and truth met together, and righteousness and peace kissed each other. This is the means that is to move the world.”
@user-jf6oi4fh7b I know!
It really discounts everything they got to say!
We what?! Of our 28 foundational beliefs, the trinity is literally number 2. I encourage everyone to look into SDA for themselves lol
Ellen White did not believe in the trinity until the early 1900s. Depending on where you live, they may still be teaching the original teachings.
Ellen White taught that the door to heaven was shut on October 22, 1844. She herself realized it wasn't true and discontinued it years later.
Ellen White believed many things that are no longer taught.
@@Elizabeth-rk3do What did Ellen White say about the pre-existence of Christ? The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? What did she believe about the gospel?
“The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with the Father. He was the surpassing glory of heaven. He was the commander of the heavenly intelligences, and the adoring homage of the angels was received by him as his right. This was no robbery of God.”
“Here Christ shows them that, although they might reckon His life to be less than fifty years, yet His divine life could not be reckoned by human computation. The existence of Christ before His incarnation is not measured by figures.”
“From all eternity Christ was united with the Father, and when He took upon Himself human nature, He was still one with God.”
But while God's Word speaks of the humanity of Christ when upon this earth, it also speaks decidedly regarding his preexistence. The Word existed as a divine being, even as the eternal Son of God, in union and oneness with his Father. From everlasting he was the Mediator of the covenant, the one in whom all nations of the earth, both Jews and Gentiles, if they accepted him, were to be blessed. ‘The Word was with God, and the Word was God.’ Before men or angels were created, the Word was with God, and was God.
“Christ was God essentially, and in the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity, God over all, blessed forevermore.”
“From the days of eternity the Lord Jesus Christ was one with the Father; He was “the image of God,” the image of His greatness and majesty, ‘the outshining of His glory.’”
“The name of God, given to Moses to express the idea of the eternal presence, had been claimed as His own by this Galilean Rabbi. He had announced Himself to be the self-existent One, He who had been promised to Israel, ‘whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity.’ Micah 5:2”
“There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.”
“The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption.”
“Those who proclaim the third angel's message must put on the whole armor of God, that they may stand boldly at their post, in the face of detraction and falsehood, fighting the good fight of faith, resisting the enemy with the word, “It is written.” Keep yourselves where the three great powers of heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, can be your efficiency. These powers work with the one who gives himself unreservedly to God. The strength of heaven is at the command of God's believing ones. The man who takes God as his trust is barricaded by an impregnable wall.”
“Our sanctification is the work of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is the fulfilment of the covenant that God has made with those who bind themselves up with Him, to stand with Him, with His Son, and with His Spirit in holy fellowship. Have you been born again? Have you become a new being in Christ Jesus? Then co-operate with the three great powers of heaven who are working in your behalf. Doing this you will reveal to the world the principles of righteousness.”
“Those who are baptized in the threefold name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, at the very entrance of their Christian life declare publicly that they have forsaken the service of Satan and have become members of the royal family, children of the heavenly King.”
“The Holy Spirit is a person, for He beareth witness with our spirits that we are the children of God. When this witness is borne, it carries with it its own evidence. At such times we believe and are sure that we are the children of God.”
“The Sacrifice of Christ as an atonement for sin is the great truth around which all other truths cluster. In order to be rightly understood and appreciated, every truth in the Word of God, from Genesis to Revelation, must be studied in the light that streams from the cross of Calvary. I present before you the great, grand monument of mercy and regeneration, salvation and redemption,-the Son of God uplifted on the cross. This is to be the foundation of every discourse given by our ministers.”
“The cross of Calvary challenges, and will finally vanquish every earthly and hellish power. In the cross all influence centers, and from it all influence goes forth. It is the great center of attraction; for on it Christ gave up His life for the human race. This sacrifice was offered for the purpose of restoring man to his original perfection; yea, more. It was offered to give him an entire transformation of character, making him more than a conqueror.”
“Never should a sermon be preached, or Bible instruction in any line be given, without pointing the hearers to “the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” John 1:29. Every true doctrine makes Christ the center, every precept receives force from His words.”
“No discourse should ever be presented without presenting Christ and Him crucified as the foundation of the gospel.”
“The study of the incarnation of Christ, His atoning sacrifice, and mediatorial work, will employ the mind of the diligent student as long as time shall last.”
“On the cross of Calvary, Christ made a full and complete atonement for the fallen race. He died because of our sin. This was the only way in which we could be pardoned. Holiness is the fruit of Christ’s infinite sacrifice in our behalf. It was not for His friends, but for His enemies, that Christ made this sacrifice, for those who He declared would not come to Him that they might have life, for those who chose earthly pleasures and earthly riches. He longs to save those who have given themselves up to the world. He calls upon them to choose His service, to give themselves wholly into His control, to wear His yoke, and learn of Him how to be meek and lowly, how to do God’s will. “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus; who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God; but made himself of no reputation, and took upon Himself the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name; that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
“Jesus is our atoning sacrifice. We can make no atonement for ourselves; but by faith we can accept the atonement that has been made. ‘For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God.’ ‘Ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, ...but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.’ No man of earth, no angel of heaven, could have paid the penalty for sin. Jesus was the only one who could save rebellious man. In Him divinity and humanity are combined, and this was what gave efficacy to the offering on Calvary's cross. At the cross, mercy and truth met together; righteousness and peace kissed each other.”
“If the cross does not find an influence in its favor, it creates an influence. Through generation succeeding generation, the truth for this time is revealed as present truth. Christ on the cross was the medium whereby mercy and truth met together, and righteousness and peace kissed each other. This is the means that is to move the world.”
Utter lies/misinformation. We definitely hold to the view of the divinity of Christ. We dont declare that Jesus was promoted. We hold to the viewpoint that Michael was a pre-incarnate name for Jesus, an archangel, or Chief of the angels
Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” Jude 1:9
Micheal is not the Lord, but Jesus is the Lord. Micheal is one of the arcahngels, and one of the chief of the angels. Micheal isn't Jesus.
You can lie, misrepresent, name call, and slander, but that will never change the reality: Jesus Christ is the eternal God part of the Trinity, Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savoir, I am saved and justified by faith in Christ atoning blood, I am sanctified by the Spirit, the Bible and the Bible only is my rule of faith by which every doctrine and individual is tested including Ellen White, God's moral law has never changed, the seventh day Sabbath is validated by the full authority of the scriptures, there is a Judgement before the second coming in which God will judge every work "with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil", humans are not immortal and the righteous will receive immortality at the second coming, the righteous dead are sleeping in their graves awaiting the resurrection at Christ second coming, and daily I must "grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ". This is what makes me a Seventh Day Adventist.
Why does God give gifts to those that misrepresent him?
Y’all scared
Y’all scared
Y’all scared
Preston & Jackie Perry, I pray that this message finds you. There is a Pastor, Teacher & Elder by the name of Dewayne Lemon with PTH Ministries who reached out to you all about being on your podcast to speak the truth on behalf of the Seventh Day Adventist church but you all were not willing to talk but come on here & say that no one responded or reached back out. That is very disingenuous of you all & I pray that you repent! You are lacking truth & are avoiding a man who has true biblical knowledge who can come on your show to get to the bottom of what the bible truly says about biblical truth that Seventh Day Adventist believe. It seems if this was all for show & ego. I rebuke the both of you in Jesus name because yall know that you both are not doing what's right!
Very sad.
I will keep you in my prayers.
He is lying there is no promotion theology in Ellen White or Adventism. If you truly want to know the SDA beliefs they are readily available on the church website.
Just go to our website and read our 28 fundamental beliefs to see if we deny the deity of Christ.
Why are men or humans interested in the creation of Christ before he came to the earth and the reason satan was rebellious?So many things are not known before the earth was created and even after the earth was created. Unless the Holy Spirit reveals (with confirmation from 2 or more witnesses), please do not join the dots by yourself or assume things. If not in black or white by God, do not make insinuations.
Why can't we just use the Word or Bible as documented to accept God as the All in All. The clouds and all things made (physical and spiritual) know God Almighty as the creator. Must we define the reason beyond our comprehension to know God and accept his Word? Truly I heard all these sayings of the arch angels in the past but my spirit had issues why humans must know the creation of Christ. Why do men want to know about how God created creation instead of obeying Him? Obedience is the KEY to his heart by walking with him in the spirit which can only be achieved if you know Him intimately. Do not depart from the Word of God. God alone via the Holy Spirit will reveal that which you should know. These areas in the Bible convinced me to stay away from man's thinking and just embrace God only. They are:
Gen 1: 1-2 (shows the Holy Spirit)
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:26(shows there were others with power with God when he used the word "us").
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
John 1:1 -5(shows the Word was with God from the beginning)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
John 1:14-15 (shows the Word became flesh that we know now as Christ Jesus)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
Psalm 18:15 ( shows there are things unknown by man yet and we won't know till God reveals or he opens our inner eyes)
15 Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.
God's plan was to always be with us but man kept rejecting him til Jesus Christ was raised on the 3rd day.
The risen Christ solved the issue, so why are we rejecting the Holy Spirit and what Jesus did? What we are saying indirectly is that we know more than God. Why are we consumed with the knowledge God Almighty via the Holy Spirit did not explicitly define?
It says Christ was the Word that was with God at the beginning and to me this means the Word from God was Christ then. Even if I do not know all now, I care less as long as the Holy Spirit keeps teaching me the Word and how to be God's child. I only want God Almighty to be my Father and I am content with that. I am looking forward to playing on a 1-1 with Christ. You can reprimand me as you want and say all sorts but I love being with and in God (my All in All)
obedience is a sign of respect. Obedience is evidence of trust. Inspired every word of the Bible from beginning to end. I trust that he gives instruction and warning for his good reasons. Obedience is showing love and fear towards him. Yes he saved us but we can’t walk all over him and do what we want we have to respect his authority pick up our cross die to the flesh obey his word out of respect and heed his warnings.
Hey Family (Perrys) I’m not SDA, but I think we should hear from a practicing SDA on this matter; I think it’s fair. 🤷🏾♀️
"Satan had claimed that it was impossible for man to obey God's commandments; and in our own strength it is true that we cannot obey them. But Christ came in the form of humanity, and by His perfect obedience He proved that humanity and divinity combined can obey every one of God's precepts."
- Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy, p. 477
"There are many who are crying out, 'Peace, peace,' when there is no peace. But the day is hastening on when they shall meet the stern realities of eternity. We have a great work to do, and we need divine enlightenment. Men may speak very eloquently upon the Scriptures, and present their doctrines in an attractive light, while they are misinterpreting the Word of God and leading souls into error."
- Ellen G. White, Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers, p. 112
Good day, I trust it is well with you.
I wanted to send an email, but couldn't find any contact details, so here I am in the comments.
Seeing that our authority is the Bible, I would like for us to seek the Bible pertaining this video you have uploaded...
Seeing that both you, Mr. And Mrs. Perry, have admitted to not knowing much about adventists, their beliefs, and the adventists space, you, should have "inquired, made search and asked diligently", even "test the spirits" to establish whether the adventists speak and stand for the Law and the Testimony or not. ( Deuteronomy 13:14; Deuteronomy 19:16-18; Isaiah 8:20; 1 John 4:1)
The credibility of your witnesses pertaining this matter should have been tested, by failing to do so you have exhibited partiality. The claims made should have been proven to be true or false before posting this video, because should they be false, you have just given false witnesses the platform to commit a transgress, and by endorsing such not only is the credibility of your ministry in question but you too would have partook in the transgress of your witnesses. (Exodus 20:16, Proverbs 6:16 - 9, Deuterenomy 13:14, Deuterenomy 19:16-18, Romans 1:32, 1 Timothy 5:21 - 22)
If it can be proven by scripture that the adventist movement stands for the Law and the Testimony, thus there is light in them, then you too have acted as a stumbling block standing in the way of people who stand to benefit from this light. (Isaiah 8:20, Matthe 23:13). I'm not claiming that the adventists are the light I'm saying they could have the light in them.
I encourage you to investigate the claims of your witnesses, establish if adventists stand for what has been mentioned in this video or somethingelse. Upon doing so, judge based on fact and most importantly scripture not opinion, speculations and misinformation, for the sake of the integrity of your ministry, and yourselves. And ultimately for the sake of the Truth.
With Love
Although Deuteronomy 13 and 19 may seem to be quoted out of context, I quoted them for the sake of illustrating the principle of making honest inquiry on a matter or subject before we act.
@NP70se
The Apostle in 1 Cor. 5 while instructing church leadership to deal with the sexual sin running rampant in the church, also reminded them that it was not their role to judge the world. That’s God’s job. We must learn to live in the world and not be of the world. I do not judge any person(s). I choose to educate. I can dissociate myself from others or unsubscribe from the Perry’s, but then I could lose an opportunity to educate and love them into the truth? The kingdom of God is bigger than each of us or any denomination. ❤
Adventist Fundamental Belief
#4
The Bible frequently mentions the “Son of God.” But how can God have a “son,” and what should that mean to us?
Let us keep in mind that Jesus is the Son not in the sense of having been created, but because He partakes of the same divine nature as God the Father. Adventists embrace the belief that Jesus is the eternal Son of God, and is also fully God Himself and part of the Godhead. He was sent to earth to minister to us, live as our example, and ultimately bear the eternal punishment of our sins. He is now our advocate, our High Priest, the relatable link between us and God the Father.
Ellen White’s own words in one of her books: ‘But I do not ask you to take my words. Lay Sister White to one side. Do not quote my words again as long as you live until you can obey the Bible’ and ‘A “Thus saith the Lord” is the strongest testimony you can possibly present to the people. Let none be educated to look to Sister White, but to the mighty God, who gives instruction to Sister White’ (Selected Messages Book 3, Chapter 4, The Primacy of the Word).
I am so disappointed in the Perrys. I know that pastor Ivor Myers reached out to talk with him, and yet he, Preston, continues to put out false info. This is sad and has cast a shadow of doubt on their sincerity. I truly believed that he would invite a knowledgeable adventist on, if u really want to know what SDA's believe. He invited the mormons on, but won't invite Pastor Myers. Then u have to ask yourself... Why wouldn't he? That pastor that he had on nor Preston will invite Pastor Myers on to comb through the scriptures. Im starying to believe that i know why. Nonetheless, go to Power of the Lamb ministry and watch the vidro callled 11 fact checks from the Perrys. Also watch who the video, who is the scapegoat that he also presented.
I am really hurt by this, mostly because I am blessed by @jackiehill's ministry. But you guys gave a platform to someone with ill intentions towards adventism, ...and he lied. This is not what we believe. We can have a conversation and a healthy debate about our beliefs, but it has to be based on facts. Je suis vraiment déçu.
ruclips.net/user/liveVqIl3tmoeEU?si=2cWwQMKvsvQKaE2T
Perrys have you considered what if the Seventh day Adventist doctrines are Biblical and Truth? Have you studied for yourself what is the doctrine? Have you considered what if Thunder and Mason are bearing false witness against the truth? The attacks against Christ and the early believers came from leaders in the church and from false witnesses. Saul why persecutest thou me?
Dear Jackie and Preston Perry.
I want to first of say thank you for your ministry….Im a seventh day Adventist and I came across your ministry few years ago when I saw Jackie’s testimony and I was touched and encouraged at how you boldly you shared your testimony on how Christ changed your life and how he has been leading you as it is so clear you love God and that is so so encouraging in a word where Christian’s often shy away from truth for men’s applause. I have sometimes watched your podcasts however, I must say on this topic I was really really disappointed by the way you handled this discussion. You didn’t give due diligence in finding a Seventh-Day Adventist to give a balanced view on defend our beliefs and this this was not unfair. You should have found someone to defend our beliefs before continuing with part 2. I do hope you do a part 3 and instead of a ‘debate’ you should simply have a discussion with an adventist on what we believe. If you are genuinely wanting to know the truth then a debate style discussion may lead to arguments and people loosing the message on what Adventists believe and therefore not able to defend the doctrines we uphold.
This discussion should only be entered into by people with an unbiased humble heart and spirit wanting to know the truth from
the word of God. Rather than debating with people that are already set in their views. I know of many seventh day adventists who would be happy to have this discussion like my husband …if you are HUMBLE and GENUINE in your search for truth @withtheperrys @preston_n_perry .
Seventh Day Adventists believe in the Holy Trinity, God The Father, The Son Jesus (Yeshua Messiah), and The Holy Spirit. Sola Scriptura, John 3:16, 17💞
Oooh this people did not do their fact check!!! Oh my Lord who are they even listening to? Who is this man talking so much falsehood!
I'm not an SDA so it's probably not their thing to do the following. But I would definitely sue you all for this false claim if I were part of their organization. Or at least report you to RUclips for misinformation. You are bearing false witness. A basic research on their beliefs should have been done instead of taking someone else's word.
Ellen White didn't believe in the trinity for decades.
I dearly hope your other work/videos are better than this.
What? This is not what Adventist believe. He is not speaking truth.
The SDA Church does believe in a trinity you can order a free booklet from Doug Batchelor called: "Holy Trinity" so please stop your lies!
For decades Ellen White didn't believe in the trinity. You have to dig deep to find it.
Ellen White said that the door to heaven was shut on October 22, 1844. She later realized that it was a lie. Remember the Shut Door doctrine?
Ellen White said many things that the SDA church doesn't teach anymore.
Bruh look at our doctrine. What y’all talking about?
Im not sure about SDAs but this sounds like the doctrine of Jehovah's witnesses. Again, SDAs and JW are a bit similar so i wouldn't be shocked.
If im not mistaken, SDA believe that keeping the Sabbath will save them (legalism). Thats one of the doctrines I'm certain they believe in. I stand corrected.
I'm protestant. I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, the father and the holy spirit.
How can resting from your own works on the Sabbath be legalism? See Hebrews 4:4, 9, 10.
As a seventh day Adventist we believe Jesus is God
Why have this as the title. Lord Jesus have mercy 😭😭
We don’t believe this at all 😅
Hello Saints. Ready to hear a word.
This issue is that what is being said is from EGW writings.
Many in the church are not familiar with exactly all that she wrote.
This is not currently emphasized in the SDA church today, and in fact many churches do not want to bring this up and have moved from this thought,
and herein lies the issue there is a tension between the foundational writings of the church and what is taught in the church now.
The issue is also that this isn't even what EGW says in her writings.
What did Ellen White say about the pre-existence of Christ? The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? What did she believe about the gospel?
“The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with the Father. He was the surpassing glory of heaven. He was the commander of the heavenly intelligences, and the adoring homage of the angels was received by him as his right. This was no robbery of God.”
“Here Christ shows them that, although they might reckon His life to be less than fifty years, yet His divine life could not be reckoned by human computation. The existence of Christ before His incarnation is not measured by figures.”
“From all eternity Christ was united with the Father, and when He took upon Himself human nature, He was still one with God.”
But while God's Word speaks of the humanity of Christ when upon this earth, it also speaks decidedly regarding his preexistence. The Word existed as a divine being, even as the eternal Son of God, in union and oneness with his Father. From everlasting he was the Mediator of the covenant, the one in whom all nations of the earth, both Jews and Gentiles, if they accepted him, were to be blessed. ‘The Word was with God, and the Word was God.’ Before men or angels were created, the Word was with God, and was God.
“Christ was God essentially, and in the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity, God over all, blessed forevermore.”
“From the days of eternity the Lord Jesus Christ was one with the Father; He was “the image of God,” the image of His greatness and majesty, ‘the outshining of His glory.’”
“The name of God, given to Moses to express the idea of the eternal presence, had been claimed as His own by this Galilean Rabbi. He had announced Himself to be the self-existent One, He who had been promised to Israel, ‘whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity.’ Micah 5:2”
“There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.”
“The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption.”
“Those who proclaim the third angel's message must put on the whole armor of God, that they may stand boldly at their post, in the face of detraction and falsehood, fighting the good fight of faith, resisting the enemy with the word, “It is written.” Keep yourselves where the three great powers of heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, can be your efficiency. These powers work with the one who gives himself unreservedly to God. The strength of heaven is at the command of God's believing ones. The man who takes God as his trust is barricaded by an impregnable wall.”
“Our sanctification is the work of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is the fulfilment of the covenant that God has made with those who bind themselves up with Him, to stand with Him, with His Son, and with His Spirit in holy fellowship. Have you been born again? Have you become a new being in Christ Jesus? Then co-operate with the three great powers of heaven who are working in your behalf. Doing this you will reveal to the world the principles of righteousness.”
“Those who are baptized in the threefold name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, at the very entrance of their Christian life declare publicly that they have forsaken the service of Satan and have become members of the royal family, children of the heavenly King.”
“The Holy Spirit is a person, for He beareth witness with our spirits that we are the children of God. When this witness is borne, it carries with it its own evidence. At such times we believe and are sure that we are the children of God.”
“The Sacrifice of Christ as an atonement for sin is the great truth around which all other truths cluster. In order to be rightly understood and appreciated, every truth in the Word of God, from Genesis to Revelation, must be studied in the light that streams from the cross of Calvary. I present before you the great, grand monument of mercy and regeneration, salvation and redemption,-the Son of God uplifted on the cross. This is to be the foundation of every discourse given by our ministers.”
“The cross of Calvary challenges, and will finally vanquish every earthly and hellish power. In the cross all influence centers, and from it all influence goes forth. It is the great center of attraction; for on it Christ gave up His life for the human race. This sacrifice was offered for the purpose of restoring man to his original perfection; yea, more. It was offered to give him an entire transformation of character, making him more than a conqueror.”
“Never should a sermon be preached, or Bible instruction in any line be given, without pointing the hearers to “the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” John 1:29. Every true doctrine makes Christ the center, every precept receives force from His words.”
“No discourse should ever be presented without presenting Christ and Him crucified as the foundation of the gospel.”
“The study of the incarnation of Christ, His atoning sacrifice, and mediatorial work, will employ the mind of the diligent student as long as time shall last.”
“On the cross of Calvary, Christ made a full and complete atonement for the fallen race. He died because of our sin. This was the only way in which we could be pardoned. Holiness is the fruit of Christ’s infinite sacrifice in our behalf. It was not for His friends, but for His enemies, that Christ made this sacrifice, for those who He declared would not come to Him that they might have life, for those who chose earthly pleasures and earthly riches. He longs to save those who have given themselves up to the world. He calls upon them to choose His service, to give themselves wholly into His control, to wear His yoke, and learn of Him how to be meek and lowly, how to do God’s will. “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus; who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God; but made himself of no reputation, and took upon Himself the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name; that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
“Jesus is our atoning sacrifice. We can make no atonement for ourselves; but by faith we can accept the atonement that has been made. ‘For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God.’ ‘Ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, ...but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.’ No man of earth, no angel of heaven, could have paid the penalty for sin. Jesus was the only one who could save rebellious man. In Him divinity and humanity are combined, and this was what gave efficacy to the offering on Calvary's cross. At the cross, mercy and truth met together; righteousness and peace kissed each other.”
“If the cross does not find an influence in its favor, it creates an influence. Through generation succeeding generation, the truth for this time is revealed as present truth. Christ on the cross was the medium whereby mercy and truth met together, and righteousness and peace kissed each other. This is the means that is to move the world.”
They can lie, misrepresent, name call, and slander, but that will never change the reality of what I believe: Jesus Christ is the eternal God part of the Trinity, Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savoir, I am saved and justified by faith in Christ atoning blood, I am sanctified by the Spirit, the Bible and the Bible only is my rule of faith by which every doctrine and individual is tested including Ellen White, God's moral law has never changed, the seventh day Sabbath is validated by the full authority of the scriptures, there is a Judgement before the second coming in which God will judge every work "with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil", humans are not immortal and the righteous will receive immortality at the second coming, the righteous dead are sleeping in their graves awaiting the resurrection at Christ second coming, and daily I must "grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ". This is what makes me a Seventh Day Adventist.
I didn't know this was Adventist teaching. I have heard snippets and flavors of this all over the place in the past 4 years
Me neither. This is actually the first time I’ve ever heard this and I was raised Seventh-Day Adventist.
@@me2cute2c I also do not see it on the SDA site.
The reason that you do not know it or have not heard of it is because they are lies. This is not what we believe.
As an SDA, this is not true. We believe that Jesus is God.
Because it’s not what we teach.
Is clearly obvious that you don’t know who Michael the archangel is because you are liking him to the typical angel
Is clearly obvious that you don’t know who Michael the archangel is because you are liking him to the typical angel
He clearly doesn't. This is what I have studied. Concerning Michael the Archangel Revelation 12:7-10 says, And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, (8) And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. (9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (10) And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Here Michael and “His angels” are fighting against the devil and the rebellious angels. Micheal is leading the battle against the devil. An angel is not leading this charge. Many angels even rebelled against God and joined the devil. We see that in the reference “and the Dragon fought and his angels”.
Jude 1:9-10 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. (10) But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
Here again fighting with the devil.
Another reference to “His angels”
Matthew 13:41-43 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; (42) And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (43) Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Matthew 24:30-31 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Described as “His angels” just as in Revelation 12.
In the Bible Jesus is called by other names to emphasize a point such as Emmanuel, “True and Faithful”, “Prince of Peace”, etc.
Daniel 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
Here Michael is referred to as Daniels “Prince” which means “Lord”.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Here the “voice of the Archangel” and “trump of God” raises the dead. An angel cannot raise the dead by his voice. Jesus is the Resurrection and Life.
Jesus says,
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Now the Bible is abundantly clear regarding the Divinity of Christ. The Jesus that I worship is self-existent, eternal, the I AM, the Almighty, The Prince of Peace, our Redeemer. Read Isaiah 9:6,7; John 1:1-3,14: Philippians 2:5-11, Colossians 1:17; Matthew 1:21; Matthew 28:18-20;
(Revelation 1:8) “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.”
@@elijahrodgers416 CRYSTAL CLEAR!!! Thanks for sharing this and I hope the Perrys read this! It’s just a misunderstanding of the terms because they see angel and have a modern understanding. Jesus is the Angel of the Lord, the word of God, the angel or messenger of the covenant etc. they just need to study in depth because they think we believe Jesus is an angel because they use other things like “well JW believe Jesus is an angel called Michael! You can’t use JW to explain SDA! They don’t believe Jesus is God! We do!
Nah, he's correct, Micheal is sometimes refered to as "one of the chief angel" (lowercase in NKJV). Micheal is not the Lord.
Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” Jude 1:9
@@AbisJourney He is not correct neither are you. You added the word angel, but the Bible says, "one of the chief princes". "Princes" means "Lord" not angel. Michael was Daniel's Prince. It is blasphemy to call Michael an angel. The Bible never called Michael an angel. The word “Archangel” in this context is clearly pointing to the Divine One that created and “reigns over the angels”.
@@elijahrodgers416 you’re correct I Was talking about Daniel 10 when he is called one of the chief princes. This is what I meant. That shows there are many chief princes, and he is one of them. Not "The One".
In that same chapter it says there was a prince of Persia as well that was against Daniel receiving revelation. That prince could have been a "principality"
The Bible never says Micheal is Jesus plainly. I found that it’s always explained by interpretation, translation, revelation which can always be wrong. This is doctrine of man
“Before the assembled inhabitants of heaven the King declared that none but Christ, the Only Begotten of God, could fully enter into His purposes, and to Him it was committed to execute the mighty counsels of His will. The Son of God had wrought the Father's will in the creation of all the hosts of heaven; and to Him, as well as to God, their homage and allegiance were due. Christ was still to exercise divine power, in the creation of the earth and its inhabitants. But in all this He would not seek power or exaltation for Himself contrary to God's plan, but would exalt the Father's glory and execute His purposes of beneficence and love.”
Patriarchs and Prophets
Chapter 1
This is what the presenter was referencing.
Thanks
What did Ellen White say about the pre-existence of Christ? The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? What did she believe about the gospel?
“The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with the Father. He was the surpassing glory of heaven. He was the commander of the heavenly intelligences, and the adoring homage of the angels was received by him as his right. This was no robbery of God.”
“Here Christ shows them that, although they might reckon His life to be less than fifty years, yet His divine life could not be reckoned by human computation. The existence of Christ before His incarnation is not measured by figures.”
“From all eternity Christ was united with the Father, and when He took upon Himself human nature, He was still one with God.”
But while God's Word speaks of the humanity of Christ when upon this earth, it also speaks decidedly regarding his preexistence. The Word existed as a divine being, even as the eternal Son of God, in union and oneness with his Father. From everlasting he was the Mediator of the covenant, the one in whom all nations of the earth, both Jews and Gentiles, if they accepted him, were to be blessed. ‘The Word was with God, and the Word was God.’ Before men or angels were created, the Word was with God, and was God.
“Christ was God essentially, and in the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity, God over all, blessed forevermore.”
“From the days of eternity the Lord Jesus Christ was one with the Father; He was “the image of God,” the image of His greatness and majesty, ‘the outshining of His glory.’”
“The name of God, given to Moses to express the idea of the eternal presence, had been claimed as His own by this Galilean Rabbi. He had announced Himself to be the self-existent One, He who had been promised to Israel, ‘whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity.’ Micah 5:2”
“There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.”
“The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption.”
“Those who proclaim the third angel's message must put on the whole armor of God, that they may stand boldly at their post, in the face of detraction and falsehood, fighting the good fight of faith, resisting the enemy with the word, “It is written.” Keep yourselves where the three great powers of heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, can be your efficiency. These powers work with the one who gives himself unreservedly to God. The strength of heaven is at the command of God's believing ones. The man who takes God as his trust is barricaded by an impregnable wall.”
“Our sanctification is the work of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is the fulfilment of the covenant that God has made with those who bind themselves up with Him, to stand with Him, with His Son, and with His Spirit in holy fellowship. Have you been born again? Have you become a new being in Christ Jesus? Then co-operate with the three great powers of heaven who are working in your behalf. Doing this you will reveal to the world the principles of righteousness.”
“Those who are baptized in the threefold name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, at the very entrance of their Christian life declare publicly that they have forsaken the service of Satan and have become members of the royal family, children of the heavenly King.”
“The Holy Spirit is a person, for He beareth witness with our spirits that we are the children of God. When this witness is borne, it carries with it its own evidence. At such times we believe and are sure that we are the children of God.”
“The Sacrifice of Christ as an atonement for sin is the great truth around which all other truths cluster. In order to be rightly understood and appreciated, every truth in the Word of God, from Genesis to Revelation, must be studied in the light that streams from the cross of Calvary. I present before you the great, grand monument of mercy and regeneration, salvation and redemption,-the Son of God uplifted on the cross. This is to be the foundation of every discourse given by our ministers.”
“The cross of Calvary challenges, and will finally vanquish every earthly and hellish power. In the cross all influence centers, and from it all influence goes forth. It is the great center of attraction; for on it Christ gave up His life for the human race. This sacrifice was offered for the purpose of restoring man to his original perfection; yea, more. It was offered to give him an entire transformation of character, making him more than a conqueror.”
“Never should a sermon be preached, or Bible instruction in any line be given, without pointing the hearers to “the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” John 1:29. Every true doctrine makes Christ the center, every precept receives force from His words.”
“No discourse should ever be presented without presenting Christ and Him crucified as the foundation of the gospel.”
“The study of the incarnation of Christ, His atoning sacrifice, and mediatorial work, will employ the mind of the diligent student as long as time shall last.”
“On the cross of Calvary, Christ made a full and complete atonement for the fallen race. He died because of our sin. This was the only way in which we could be pardoned. Holiness is the fruit of Christ’s infinite sacrifice in our behalf. It was not for His friends, but for His enemies, that Christ made this sacrifice, for those who He declared would not come to Him that they might have life, for those who chose earthly pleasures and earthly riches. He longs to save those who have given themselves up to the world. He calls upon them to choose His service, to give themselves wholly into His control, to wear His yoke, and learn of Him how to be meek and lowly, how to do God’s will. “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus; who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God; but made himself of no reputation, and took upon Himself the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name; that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
“Jesus is our atoning sacrifice. We can make no atonement for ourselves; but by faith we can accept the atonement that has been made. ‘For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God.’ ‘Ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, ...but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.’ No man of earth, no angel of heaven, could have paid the penalty for sin. Jesus was the only one who could save rebellious man. In Him divinity and humanity are combined, and this was what gave efficacy to the offering on Calvary's cross. At the cross, mercy and truth met together; righteousness and peace kissed each other.”
“If the cross does not find an influence in its favor, it creates an influence. Through generation succeeding generation, the truth for this time is revealed as present truth. Christ on the cross was the medium whereby mercy and truth met together, and righteousness and peace kissed each other. This is the means that is to move the world.”
Yes, and this is what you left out. "The King of the universe summoned the heavenly hosts before Him, that in their presence He might set forth the true position of His Son and show the relation He sustained to all created beings. The Son of God shared the Father's throne, and the glory of the eternal, SELF-EXISTENT One encircled both. About the throne gathered the holy angels, a vast, unnumbered throng-“ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands” (Revelation 5:11.), the most exalted angels, as ministers and subjects, rejoicing in the light that fell upon them from the presence of the Deity. Before the assembled inhabitants of heaven the King declared that none but Christ, the Only Begotten of God, could fully enter into His purposes, and to Him it was committed to execute the mighty counsels of His will. The Son of God had wrought the Father's will in the creation of all the hosts of heaven; and to Him, as well as to God, their homage and allegiance were due. Christ was still to exercise divine power, in the creation of the earth and its inhabitants. But in all this He would not seek power or exaltation for Himself contrary to God's plan, but would exalt the Father's glory and execute His purposes of beneficence and love. PP 36.2 The angels joyfully acknowledged the SUPREMACY of Christ, and prostrating themselves before Him, poured out their love and adoration. PP 36.3
FALSE😮
Nope.
I was a deacon the SDA church is a cult straight up period end of story
1 John 4:1
Mathew 7:15-18
Mathew 24:11 & 24
Deuteronomy 13:1-3
2 Peter 2:1-3
You can lie, misrepresent, name call, and slander, but that will never change the reality: Jesus Christ is the eternal God part of the Trinity, Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savoir, I am saved and justified by faith in Christ atoning blood, I am sanctified by the Spirit, the Bible and the Bible only is my rule of faith by which every doctrine and individual is tested including Ellen White, God's moral law has never changed, the seventh day Sabbath is validated by the full authority of the scriptures, there is a Judgement before the second coming in which God will judge every work "with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil", humans are not immortal and the righteous will receive immortality at the second coming, the righteous dead are sleeping in their graves awaiting the resurrection at Christ second coming, and daily I must "grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ". This is what makes me a Seventh Day Adventist.
This is what the Bible says. READ: Matthew 5:17-19; Matthew 15:3-6; Mark 7:6-9; Mark 2:27,28; Matthew 19:17-22; Luke 16:7; Mark 10:19-21; John 14:15; Romans 3:31; Romans 7:12; 1 Corinthians 7:19; Romans 7:22-25; Romans 8:1-4; Revelation14:12: Revelation 22:14; James 2:11,12; 1 John 3:4; Roman 7:7; Roman 13:9,10; Genesis 2:1-3; Luke 23:54,56.
@@elijahrodgers416amen brother. If he was a deacon, it means little in terms of his understanding of SDA doctrine. It just means he carried an offering plate and did general maintenance. Maybe he was burned out by some other false professors of SDA
Adventists please read
Signs of the Times
January 30, 1879 par.1
by EGW
Why would Christ have to beg the Father concerning the plan of Salvation?
This seems very perplexing
I think the presenter knows more historical facts about Adventism than current SDA members. A great deal of this information is not presented in this current age….
What did Ellen White say about the pre-existence of Christ? The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? What did she believe about the gospel?
“The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with the Father. He was the surpassing glory of heaven. He was the commander of the heavenly intelligences, and the adoring homage of the angels was received by him as his right. This was no robbery of God.”
“Here Christ shows them that, although they might reckon His life to be less than fifty years, yet His divine life could not be reckoned by human computation. The existence of Christ before His incarnation is not measured by figures.”
“From all eternity Christ was united with the Father, and when He took upon Himself human nature, He was still one with God.”
But while God's Word speaks of the humanity of Christ when upon this earth, it also speaks decidedly regarding his preexistence. The Word existed as a divine being, even as the eternal Son of God, in union and oneness with his Father. From everlasting he was the Mediator of the covenant, the one in whom all nations of the earth, both Jews and Gentiles, if they accepted him, were to be blessed. ‘The Word was with God, and the Word was God.’ Before men or angels were created, the Word was with God, and was God.
“Christ was God essentially, and in the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity, God over all, blessed forevermore.”
“From the days of eternity the Lord Jesus Christ was one with the Father; He was “the image of God,” the image of His greatness and majesty, ‘the outshining of His glory.’”
“The name of God, given to Moses to express the idea of the eternal presence, had been claimed as His own by this Galilean Rabbi. He had announced Himself to be the self-existent One, He who had been promised to Israel, ‘whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity.’ Micah 5:2”
“There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.”
“The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption.”
“Those who proclaim the third angel's message must put on the whole armor of God, that they may stand boldly at their post, in the face of detraction and falsehood, fighting the good fight of faith, resisting the enemy with the word, “It is written.” Keep yourselves where the three great powers of heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, can be your efficiency. These powers work with the one who gives himself unreservedly to God. The strength of heaven is at the command of God's believing ones. The man who takes God as his trust is barricaded by an impregnable wall.”
“Our sanctification is the work of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is the fulfilment of the covenant that God has made with those who bind themselves up with Him, to stand with Him, with His Son, and with His Spirit in holy fellowship. Have you been born again? Have you become a new being in Christ Jesus? Then co-operate with the three great powers of heaven who are working in your behalf. Doing this you will reveal to the world the principles of righteousness.”
“Those who are baptized in the threefold name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, at the very entrance of their Christian life declare publicly that they have forsaken the service of Satan and have become members of the royal family, children of the heavenly King.”
“The Holy Spirit is a person, for He beareth witness with our spirits that we are the children of God. When this witness is borne, it carries with it its own evidence. At such times we believe and are sure that we are the children of God.”
“The Sacrifice of Christ as an atonement for sin is the great truth around which all other truths cluster. In order to be rightly understood and appreciated, every truth in the Word of God, from Genesis to Revelation, must be studied in the light that streams from the cross of Calvary. I present before you the great, grand monument of mercy and regeneration, salvation and redemption,-the Son of God uplifted on the cross. This is to be the foundation of every discourse given by our ministers.”
“The cross of Calvary challenges, and will finally vanquish every earthly and hellish power. In the cross all influence centers, and from it all influence goes forth. It is the great center of attraction; for on it Christ gave up His life for the human race. This sacrifice was offered for the purpose of restoring man to his original perfection; yea, more. It was offered to give him an entire transformation of character, making him more than a conqueror.”
“Never should a sermon be preached, or Bible instruction in any line be given, without pointing the hearers to “the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” John 1:29. Every true doctrine makes Christ the center, every precept receives force from His words.”
“No discourse should ever be presented without presenting Christ and Him crucified as the foundation of the gospel.”
“The study of the incarnation of Christ, His atoning sacrifice, and mediatorial work, will employ the mind of the diligent student as long as time shall last.”
“On the cross of Calvary, Christ made a full and complete atonement for the fallen race. He died because of our sin. This was the only way in which we could be pardoned. Holiness is the fruit of Christ’s infinite sacrifice in our behalf. It was not for His friends, but for His enemies, that Christ made this sacrifice, for those who He declared would not come to Him that they might have life, for those who chose earthly pleasures and earthly riches. He longs to save those who have given themselves up to the world. He calls upon them to choose His service, to give themselves wholly into His control, to wear His yoke, and learn of Him how to be meek and lowly, how to do God’s will. “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus; who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God; but made himself of no reputation, and took upon Himself the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name; that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
“Jesus is our atoning sacrifice. We can make no atonement for ourselves; but by faith we can accept the atonement that has been made. ‘For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God.’ ‘Ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, ...but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.’ No man of earth, no angel of heaven, could have paid the penalty for sin. Jesus was the only one who could save rebellious man. In Him divinity and humanity are combined, and this was what gave efficacy to the offering on Calvary's cross. At the cross, mercy and truth met together; righteousness and peace kissed each other.”
“If the cross does not find an influence in its favor, it creates an influence. Through generation succeeding generation, the truth for this time is revealed as present truth. Christ on the cross was the medium whereby mercy and truth met together, and righteousness and peace kissed each other. This is the means that is to move the world.”
They did not have videos or computers in her time, and she wrote very descriptive at times. This was not saying that Christ was inferior to the Father. If you were not sure there are many other quotes in which she is very clear. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit met to put the plan of salvation "foreordained before the foundation of the world" into action. "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us (the Trinity), to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." (Genesis 3:22-24)
"Sorrow filled Heaven, as it was realized that man was lost, and the world which God had created was to be filled with mortals doomed to misery, sickness, and death, and there was no way of escape for the offender; the whole family of Adam must die. The heart of the Son of God was touched with pity for the lost race. Upon his lovely countenance rested an expression of sympathy and sorrow. Soon he approached the exceeding bright light which enshrouded the Father, and he seemed to engage in close converse with him. The anxiety of the angels was intense while Jesus thus communed with his Father. Three times he was shut in by the cloud of glory; the third time he came forth his countenance was calm, free from all perplexity and trouble, and shone with benevolence and loveliness, such as words cannot express. He then made known to the angelic host that a way of escape had been made for lost man. He told them that he had been pleading with his Father, and had offered to give his life a ransom, and take the sentence of death upon himself, that through him man might find pardon; that through the merits of his blood, and obedience to the law of God, man could again have the favor of God, and be brought into the beautiful garden, and eat of the fruit of the tree of life. ST January 30, 1879, par. 1
At first the angels could not rejoice, for their Commander concealed nothing from them, but opened before them the plan of salvation. He told them that he would stand between the wrath of his Father and guilty man, that he would bear iniquity and scorn, and but few would receive him as the Son of God He would leave all his glory in Heaven, appear upon earth as a man, become acquainted by his own experience with the various temptations with which man would be beset; and, finally, after his mission as a teacher should be accomplished, he would be delivered into the hands of men, and after enduring almost every cruelty and suffering, that Satan and his angels could inspire wicked men to inflict, he would die the cruelest of deaths, hung up between the heavens and the earth as a guilty sinner. And not merely would he suffer bodily pain, but mental agony. The weight of the sins of the whole world would be upon him. He told them also that after his death he would rise again the third day, and ascend to his Father to intercede for wayward, guilty man. ST January 30, 1879, par. 2
The angels prostrated themselves before their beloved Commander, and offered to give their lives. Jesus told them the transgression was so great that the life of an angel could not pay the debt; his life alone could be accepted by his Father as a ransom for man. But the work of the angels was assigned them, to descend with strengthening balm from glory to soothe the Son of God in his sufferings, and to minister unto him. Also, their work would be to guard the subjects of grace from the evil angels, and the darkness constantly thrown around them by Satan. ST January 30, 1879, par. 3
With a holy sadness Jesus comforted and cheered the angels, and informed them that hereafter those whom he should redeem would be with him, and ever dwell with him; and that by his death he should ransom many, and finally destroy him who had the power of death. And his Father would give him the kingdom, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, and he should possess it forever and ever. Satan and sinners should be destroyed, never more to disturb Heaven, or those who should inherit the new earth. Jesus bade the heavenly host be reconciled to the plan that his Father had accepted, and rejoice that fallen man could be exalted again, through his death, to obtain favor with God and enjoy Heaven." ST January 30, 1879, par. 4
Why is this perplexing? God was deciding as to whether He is going to offer up His only begotten Son for us, do you think that was an easy decision? This is why God gave the most unusual demonstration of this in the story of Abraham and Isaac-that we may understand even a little of what He did. I would argue it was infinately more difficult for the Father to offer up Jesus than for Abraham to offer up Isaac since the Father and Jesus never been separated, but by giving Him to the human race, the Father was making a most significant sacrifice to save us. No problem with the quote at all.
I am a SDA non-trinitarian and i believe that Jesus is fully divine and therefore I do not deny His deity. The Bible also doesn't teach a trinity. So if there are SDAs who aim to appear as christians based on their belief in a trinity, its because the 28 Fundamental beliefs teach a trinity, while the original pioneers rejected that same trinity. Modern SDAs seem to so care about what other christians think about them that they are willing to reject John 17:3 to be a part of the crowd. Bruhh😢
How can you be Seventh Day Adventist AND non trinitarian? The Trinity is part of their fundamental beliefs; a non negotiable for their denomination. By “SDA” do you mean something else? Or maybe I’m misunderstanding the definition of non trinitarian…just curious.
@@Ajw214 thanks for asking. By SDA, I mean I was born into Seventh Day Adventism and I am still a Seventh Day Adventist by membership. I was not disfellowshipped, nor did I apply for my membership to be removed. Let me explain how I can be SDA and not believe in the trinity by sharing a short piece of documented history. Will share it in parts.
@@Ajw214
Part 2
Now that we know the role of Ellen White as set forth in Fundamental Belief #18, lets look at what an SDA should believe according to her guidance.
“We have nothing to fear for the future, except as we shall FORGET the way the Lord has LED US and HIS TEACHING IN OUR PAST HISTORY.”
{Ellen White, 16LtMs, Ms 139, 1901, par. 28}
Many SDA Non-Trinitarians today who are Ellen White readers, would have been acquainted with the following EGW Prophecy:
“The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in GIVING UP THE DOCTRINES WHICH STAND AS THE PILLARS OF OUR FAITH, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The PRINCIPLES OF TRUTH THAT GOD IN HIS WISDOM HAS GIVEN TO THE REMNANT CHURCH, WOULD BE DISCARDED. Our RELIGION WOULD BE CHANGED. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the LAST FIFTY YEARS would be accounted AS ERROR. A new organization would be established. BOOKS OF A NEW ORDER WOULD BE WRITTEN. A system of INTELLECTUAL PHILOSOPHY would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work.”
{Ellen White, Selected Messages, book 1, pages 204.2 - 205.1}
When the 28 Fundamental Beliefs are read, the main change which took place was especially in belief #2. The current #2 “fundamental beliefs” of the trinity was not in the 1872 and 1889 versions of the “Fundamental Principles.”
Modern SDA historians admit that a change did happen with One Particular teaching:
“ADVENTIST BELIEFS HAVE CHANGED over the years under the impact of ‘present truth.’ MOST STARTLING is the teaching regarding Jesus Christ, our Saviour and Lord. Many of the pioneers, including James White, J.N. Andrews, Uriah Smith, and J.H. Waggoner, held to an Arian or semi-Arian view … that is, the Son at some point in time before the Creation of our world was generated by the Father … the TRINITARIAN UNDERSTANDING OF GOD, NOW PART OF OUR FUNDAMENTAL BELIEFS, WAS NOT GENERALLY HELD BY THE EARLY ADVENTISTS. EVEN TODAY A FEW DO NOT SUBSCRIBE TO IT.” (William G. Johnsson in the Adventist Review, Jan. 6, 1994 p.10)
I am no longer a strict Ellen White disciple as before. But, one of the most persuasive statements which can work in her defence of prophecy, is upon this subject because clearly the church’s position has officially changed. They will not change the 1844 Investigative Judgment doctrine, nor the Sabbath doctrine. But for the Trinity, they have clearly made that change after she died. She said:
“I tell you now, that when I am laid to rest, GREAT CHANGES will take place…I want the people to know that I warned them fully before my death.” Manuscript 1, February 24, 1915
“Be not deceived; many will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. We have now before us the alpha of this danger. The omega will be of a most startling nature.” (E.G. White, Selected Messages book 1, p. 197)
(Part 2)
@@Ajw214(Part 3)
SDA historian, George Knight said:
"Most of the founders of Seventh-day Adventism would not be able to join the church today if they had to subscribe to the denomination's Fundamental Beliefs."
"More specifically, most would not be able to agree to belief number 2, which deals with the DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY. For Joseph Bates the Trinity was an unscriptural doctrine, for James White it was that "old Trinitarian absurdity," and for M. E. Cornell it was a fruit of the great apostasy, along with such false doctrines as Sunday-keeping and the immortality of the soul."
A well-known Adventist Trinitarian Jerry Moon who was a co-author of the book The Trinity wrote:
“That most of the leading SDA PIONEERS were non-Trinitarian in their theology has become accepted Adventist HISTORY.”
He then goes on to say: …“either the PIONEERS were wrong and the present church is right, or the PIONEERS WERE RIGHT and the present Seventh-day Adventist Church has apostatized from biblical truth.”
{Jerry Moon, The Trinity, Chapter, Trinity and antitrinitarianism in Seventh-day Adventist history, p. 190}
What did Ellen White teach concerning the Pioneers? Did she consider their writings as filled with error? If not, was she not in agreement with them? What were her instructions?
Ellen White said:
“The record of the experience through which the people of God passed in the EARLY HISTORY OF OUR WORK MUST BE REPUBLISHED. Many of those who have since come into the truth are ignorant of the way in which the Lord wrought. The EXPERIENCE of William Miller and his associates, of Captain JOSEPH BATES, and of OTHER PIONEERS in the Advent message SHOULD BE KEPT BEFORE OUR PEOPLE.” PM 30.1
SDA PIONEER Joseph Bates said:
“Respecting the TRINITY, I concluded that it was an impossibility for me to believe that the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, was also the Almighty God, the Father, one and the same being. I said to my father, "If you can convince me that we are one in this sense, that you are my father, and I your son; and also that I am your father, and you my son, then I can believe in the TRINITY." AJB 204.2
Ellen White said:
"We are to REPEAT THE WORDS of the PIONEERS in our work, who knew what it cost to search for the truth as for hidden treasure, and who labored to lay the foundation of our work. They moved forward step by step under the influence of the Spirit of God. One by one these PIONEERS are passing away. The word given me is, “LET that which these men have written in the PAST BE REPRODUCED.”
{Ellen White, Counsels to Writers and Editors, p. 28, par. 1}
“We have nothing to fear for the future, except as we shall forget the way the Lord has led us and His teaching in our PAST HISTORY.”
{Ellen White, 16LtMs, Ms 139, 1901, par. 28}
Ellen White was a Non-Trinitarian, and she encouraged her readers and the church ministries to reprint the writings of the Pioneers. The same pioneers who was against the trinity.
(Part 3)
@@Ajw214
(Part 1)
Number #18 of the “28 Fundamental Beliefs” points back to history as more truthful of the SDA position on the Godhead than the currently held position. Here is the evidence:
*Fundamental Belief #18* - *The Gift of Prophecy”*
“The Scriptures testify that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy.”
“This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe IT was manifested in the ministry of ELLEN G. WHITE. HER WRITINGS SPEAK WITH PROPHETIC AUTHORITY and provide comfort, GUIDANCE, INSTRUCTION, and CORRECTION to the church.”
“They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested.”
……
Because Ellen White’s writings speak with Prophetic Authority, providing guidance, instruction and correction to the church, it means that if the church teaches something different to what she taught, the church stands to be corrected and instructed. Many SDAs though they are fighting tooth and nail to defend SDAs from public shaming, are also aware of a continual internal struggle between the EGW zealous and those who do not follow her counsel. This is why the SDA church is divided into over 100 different factions and different brands of SDA. Some are called offshoots and some operate from within the church. Many would even say that many things that the General Conference do causes the conscientious to scratch their heads in confusion. From issues of ecumenism, to LGBTQ and a lack of action from the SDA leadership to put things right. The point is this. This same General Conference who hold votes at times to determine of the 28 Fundamental Beliefs should be adjusted, are often found to not be living up to the guidance of Ellen White their prophetess, which they say provide guidance, instruction, and prophetic authority. Should it really be surprising that something in the 28 Fundamental Beliefs could be wrong even when compared with their prophetess and with the Bible? If you really want to know what SDAs believe you would need to speak to over 22 million members personally because we all have different viewpoints for various reasons. If you would like to know what SDAs are supposed to believe, read Ellen White’s writings and you would also see that most SDAs do not even know their history, nor what they are supposed to believe as taught by Ellen White, except what is often regurgitated in SDA sermons and sabbath school lesson quarterly studies.
(Part 1)
This was just absolute deception. Ellen White and Adventism as a whole firmly uphold the deity of Christ. We also don’t believe that Christ was promoted to deity, nor has this been stated in any of Ellen White’s writings. We believe He has always been divine. To avoid misrepresentation, please bring on an Adventist pastor to have a reasonable and balanced discussion. I recommend Pastor Ivor Myers @powerofthelamb
What do you think of Patriarchs and Prophets Chapter 1?
Could you possibly see how some one could be a bit perplexed?
@@keke7085 Patriarchs and Prophets Chapter 1 directly emphasises the deity of Christ. It speaks about how He was the only begotten of the Father (begotten does not mean created or promoted), and is the Word who was always with the Father, being one with Him in nature, character and purpose. This chapter emphatically states that Christ is God.
@@keke7085 What did Ellen White say about the pre-existence of Christ? The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? What did she believe about the gospel?
“The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with the Father. He was the surpassing glory of heaven. He was the commander of the heavenly intelligences, and the adoring homage of the angels was received by him as his right. This was no robbery of God.”
“Here Christ shows them that, although they might reckon His life to be less than fifty years, yet His divine life could not be reckoned by human computation. The existence of Christ before His incarnation is not measured by figures.”
“From all eternity Christ was united with the Father, and when He took upon Himself human nature, He was still one with God.”
But while God's Word speaks of the humanity of Christ when upon this earth, it also speaks decidedly regarding his preexistence. The Word existed as a divine being, even as the eternal Son of God, in union and oneness with his Father. From everlasting he was the Mediator of the covenant, the one in whom all nations of the earth, both Jews and Gentiles, if they accepted him, were to be blessed. ‘The Word was with God, and the Word was God.’ Before men or angels were created, the Word was with God, and was God.
“Christ was God essentially, and in the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity, God over all, blessed forevermore.”
“From the days of eternity the Lord Jesus Christ was one with the Father; He was “the image of God,” the image of His greatness and majesty, ‘the outshining of His glory.’”
“The name of God, given to Moses to express the idea of the eternal presence, had been claimed as His own by this Galilean Rabbi. He had announced Himself to be the self-existent One, He who had been promised to Israel, ‘whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity.’ Micah 5:2”
“There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.”
“The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption.”
“Those who proclaim the third angel's message must put on the whole armor of God, that they may stand boldly at their post, in the face of detraction and falsehood, fighting the good fight of faith, resisting the enemy with the word, “It is written.” Keep yourselves where the three great powers of heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, can be your efficiency. These powers work with the one who gives himself unreservedly to God. The strength of heaven is at the command of God's believing ones. The man who takes God as his trust is barricaded by an impregnable wall.”
“Our sanctification is the work of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is the fulfilment of the covenant that God has made with those who bind themselves up with Him, to stand with Him, with His Son, and with His Spirit in holy fellowship. Have you been born again? Have you become a new being in Christ Jesus? Then co-operate with the three great powers of heaven who are working in your behalf. Doing this you will reveal to the world the principles of righteousness.”
“Those who are baptized in the threefold name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, at the very entrance of their Christian life declare publicly that they have forsaken the service of Satan and have become members of the royal family, children of the heavenly King.”
“The Holy Spirit is a person, for He beareth witness with our spirits that we are the children of God. When this witness is borne, it carries with it its own evidence. At such times we believe and are sure that we are the children of God.”
“The Sacrifice of Christ as an atonement for sin is the great truth around which all other truths cluster. In order to be rightly understood and appreciated, every truth in the Word of God, from Genesis to Revelation, must be studied in the light that streams from the cross of Calvary. I present before you the great, grand monument of mercy and regeneration, salvation and redemption,-the Son of God uplifted on the cross. This is to be the foundation of every discourse given by our ministers.”
“The cross of Calvary challenges, and will finally vanquish every earthly and hellish power. In the cross all influence centers, and from it all influence goes forth. It is the great center of attraction; for on it Christ gave up His life for the human race. This sacrifice was offered for the purpose of restoring man to his original perfection; yea, more. It was offered to give him an entire transformation of character, making him more than a conqueror.”
“Never should a sermon be preached, or Bible instruction in any line be given, without pointing the hearers to “the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” John 1:29. Every true doctrine makes Christ the center, every precept receives force from His words.”
“No discourse should ever be presented without presenting Christ and Him crucified as the foundation of the gospel.”
“The study of the incarnation of Christ, His atoning sacrifice, and mediatorial work, will employ the mind of the diligent student as long as time shall last.”
“On the cross of Calvary, Christ made a full and complete atonement for the fallen race. He died because of our sin. This was the only way in which we could be pardoned. Holiness is the fruit of Christ’s infinite sacrifice in our behalf. It was not for His friends, but for His enemies, that Christ made this sacrifice, for those who He declared would not come to Him that they might have life, for those who chose earthly pleasures and earthly riches. He longs to save those who have given themselves up to the world. He calls upon them to choose His service, to give themselves wholly into His control, to wear His yoke, and learn of Him how to be meek and lowly, how to do God’s will. “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus; who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God; but made himself of no reputation, and took upon Himself the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name; that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
“Jesus is our atoning sacrifice. We can make no atonement for ourselves; but by faith we can accept the atonement that has been made. ‘For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God.’ ‘Ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, ...but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.’ No man of earth, no angel of heaven, could have paid the penalty for sin. Jesus was the only one who could save rebellious man. In Him divinity and humanity are combined, and this was what gave efficacy to the offering on Calvary's cross. At the cross, mercy and truth met together; righteousness and peace kissed each other.”
“If the cross does not find an influence in its favor, it creates an influence. Through generation succeeding generation, the truth for this time is revealed as present truth. Christ on the cross was the medium whereby mercy and truth met together, and righteousness and peace kissed each other. This is the means that is to move the world.”
@@keke7085 And here is the other one they bring up. In Ellen White's time they did not have videos or computers in her time, and she wrote very descriptive at times. This was not saying that Christ was inferior to the Father in any way. If you were not sure there are many other quotes in which she is very clear. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit met to put the plan of salvation "foreordained before the foundation of the world" into action. "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us (the Trinity), to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." (Genesis 3:22-24)
"Sorrow filled Heaven, as it was realized that man was lost, and the world which God had created was to be filled with mortals doomed to misery, sickness, and death, and there was no way of escape for the offender; the whole family of Adam must die. The heart of the Son of God was touched with pity for the lost race. Upon his lovely countenance rested an expression of sympathy and sorrow. Soon he approached the exceeding bright light which enshrouded the Father, and he seemed to engage in close converse with him. The anxiety of the angels was intense while Jesus thus communed with his Father. Three times he was shut in by the cloud of glory; the third time he came forth his countenance was calm, free from all perplexity and trouble, and shone with benevolence and loveliness, such as words cannot express. He then made known to the angelic host that a way of escape had been made for lost man. He told them that he had been pleading with his Father, and had offered to give his life a ransom, and take the sentence of death upon himself, that through him man might find pardon; that through the merits of his blood, and obedience to the law of God, man could again have the favor of God, and be brought into the beautiful garden, and eat of the fruit of the tree of life. ST January 30, 1879, par. 1
At first the angels could not rejoice, for their Commander concealed nothing from them, but opened before them the plan of salvation. He told them that he would stand between the wrath of his Father and guilty man, that he would bear iniquity and scorn, and but few would receive him as the Son of God He would leave all his glory in Heaven, appear upon earth as a man, become acquainted by his own experience with the various temptations with which man would be beset; and, finally, after his mission as a teacher should be accomplished, he would be delivered into the hands of men, and after enduring almost every cruelty and suffering, that Satan and his angels could inspire wicked men to inflict, he would die the cruelest of deaths, hung up between the heavens and the earth as a guilty sinner. And not merely would he suffer bodily pain, but mental agony. The weight of the sins of the whole world would be upon him. He told them also that after his death he would rise again the third day, and ascend to his Father to intercede for wayward, guilty man. ST January 30, 1879, par. 2
The angels prostrated themselves before their beloved Commander, and offered to give their lives. Jesus told them the transgression was so great that the life of an angel could not pay the debt; his life alone could be accepted by his Father as a ransom for man. But the work of the angels was assigned them, to descend with strengthening balm from glory to soothe the Son of God in his sufferings, and to minister unto him. Also, their work would be to guard the subjects of grace from the evil angels, and the darkness constantly thrown around them by Satan. ST January 30, 1879, par. 3
With a holy sadness Jesus comforted and cheered the angels, and informed them that hereafter those whom he should redeem would be with him, and ever dwell with him; and that by his death he should ransom many, and finally destroy him who had the power of death. And his Father would give him the kingdom, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, and he should possess it forever and ever. Satan and sinners should be destroyed, never more to disturb Heaven, or those who should inherit the new earth. Jesus bade the heavenly host be reconciled to the plan that his Father had accepted, and rejoice that fallen man could be exalted again, through his death, to obtain favor with God and enjoy Heaven." ST January 30, 1879, par. 4
@@keke7085 This is what they leave out. "The King of the universe summoned the heavenly hosts before Him, that in their presence He might set forth the true position of His Son and show the relation He sustained to all created beings. The Son of God shared the Father's throne, and the glory of the eternal, SELF-EXISTENT One encircled both. About the throne gathered the holy angels, a vast, unnumbered throng-“ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands” (Revelation 5:11.), the most exalted angels, as ministers and subjects, rejoicing in the light that fell upon them from the presence of the Deity. Before the assembled inhabitants of heaven the King declared that none but Christ, the Only Begotten of God, could fully enter into His purposes, and to Him it was committed to execute the mighty counsels of His will. The Son of God had wrought the Father's will in the creation of all the hosts of heaven; and to Him, as well as to God, their homage and allegiance were due. Christ was still to exercise divine power, in the creation of the earth and its inhabitants. But in all this He would not seek power or exaltation for Himself contrary to God's plan, but would exalt the Father's glory and execute His purposes of beneficence and love. PP 36.2 The angels joyfully acknowledged the SUPREMACY of Christ, and prostrating themselves before Him, poured out their love and adoration. PP 36.3