"House Targaryen was written as backstory for Daenerys" 👏 This is the best analysis channel there is. So glad you released the edited view, will rewatch again and again.
@@artorhenBasically my argument is that if the Targs only exist as Dany's backstory the same is true for Jon. This is because the mystery of Jon's parentage is built into Book one. This is set up at the start of the book in Jon's early chapters where he mopes about being a bastard, and the pay off for the reader comes during Ned's tower of Joy dream, where the first clue of R+L=J is.
Hi David! I’ve been binging and rewatching your fully produced videos the past couple months and want to say #1 thank you for these edited streams, cuz sadly, my personal flavor of ADHD prevents me from being able to keep focus during the live streams, and #2 I can’t thank you enough for all that you do and the fantastic energy/vibes/silliness you bring. And rad costumes. And all the symbolism that blows my damn mind. Anywhoo, your videos have become my go-to comfort watches on really bad days, when my depression is the gnarliest and I can’t stop spiraling. So, thank you for teaching me all the cool things, making me laugh, and overall helping pull me out of the deep dark pits ❤️
hey just seeing this comment but thank you very much, and yes I do try to offer different formats for content, and it gives me variety to in the ways I can present things
You must have been shattered with her later seasons 😂 I was on her side until she met Jon at dragonstone and gave him a speech about how special she was for literally no reason. Im just not gonna wait 5-10 years for the real author to finish these books.
David, I can’t believe I’m just now realizing this but you would make an amazing reading teacher. The way you use thinkalouds to explain and make connections is exactly what a great teacher does :)
38:04 Devotees of Kali often call her Ma Kali because she is the mother, holding our souls as we move through the cosmic timeline. She strips away the ego so we can see what's really there. Dany will be forced to drop the ego (the Game of Thrones) to fulfill her dharma (the Others). It's a great comparison.
Reaghar failing to get Dany fully set up for the prophecy to come is a great commentary on parenting. Regardless of your efforts, life has a way of subverting even the best laid plans.
@myujmes I was mixing thoughts. Reaghar failed to set up who he thought was the prince that was promised Jon. Dany ended up being the promised prince instead. I just got myself mixed. When it comes to Targaryen family trees, I usually get mixed up.
This is the kind of verbal slip that I do, lol. but yes I do think it's very interesting, and it's also interesting that the two chosen ones both had much more troubled upbringings than they would have had the dynasty stayed in place, and those upbringings informed their character
@DavidLightbringer I've been thinking about that timeline a lot. A theorized timeline where things go right for Targaryens and they properly get Westeros set up to fight The Others. Like you said, though, it's important that Dany and Jon have been mostly divorced from the horrible aspects of their ancestry. Allowing for a more just and sustainable future.
Every single video you do about Dany is my favorite video! You always bring respect to the conversation that is tragically missing a lot of the time without being biased in your takes. So happy for this upload!!!
Outstanding; really appreciate the re-release as this is a really solid piece of work! Crazy that it's nearly 4 hours; your flow makes it fly by. Thank you DL!
1:23:40 I appreciate how Atlantis Morrisette depicted them as having various skin tones. As you said, it was such a massive imperial entity they would have people quite literally from the ends of the earth as well as the more familiar Essosi and Westerosi locales. Too often I see artworks based on things where no such information is given, yet they are usually depicted with 'western European' looks. This image is both visually interesting and also makes sense contextually
@@sterlingorganicfarm421that actually works several ways too, roads could be considered “progress” for humanity or civilization but a detriment to the the health of the environment, and arguably detrimental to human health, mental and physical, while trees are essentially the opposite. You could also say that dragons are designed for destruction but can still be used to create or build.
Valyirans aren't the sheep herders that found Dragons on the Peninsula. They were from Great Empire of Dawn that travel there and may have mingle with local people who lived there or enslaved them. They been there so long they forget 48 Dragons Lord's Families. For 5000 years.
Lyanna Stark also thought that as well. Rhaegar was looking for someone with old magic in the blood both Elis and Lyanna qualify in that regard. I believe that blood only has old magic in it can successfully breed with a Targeryon dragon bloodline
I think Viserion and Reagal are going to make eggs, for the few generals, since Targaryen's were so guarded of the dragons to their detriment and Danny crushes crap traditions.
@@swayback7375 Unlikely, even if Daenery's dragons produce no eggs, which itself is unlikely they won't produce eggs, than there is always Asshai, or any other place tbh. There are bound to be multiple eggs turned to stone, and all it takes is another event such as Daenerys's for Dragons to keep being reborn.
Great job LML, honestly amazing stream. I love when it all comes together. And if I might just add, you have gotten so much better over the years of explaining things, Bravo sir
Dany is a tricky character for me. George rarely writes individuals that do everything correctly, or everything with full justification (grey characters), so I'm on the lookout for a major mistake by Dany, or a "no good option" choice that has major consequences. I feel she has had some with Meereen, but I think she's in for a rough start in Westeros. I don't see her as a "villain in the making," but similar to how Stannis had his choice to kill Renly and the Battle of the Blackwater backfire (or wildfire) in his face, I think something will happen in Kings Landing that results in a sobering reality check for Dany (everywhere the Dragons danced, the people died). I see this both in an actual sense (Dragons are very difficult to use with precision, such is the nature of fire, thus collateral damage becomes inevitable) and in the sense of a potential conflict with Griff/Faegon. Targ civil wars have a habit of just obliterating the land and people (Aegon's Conquest, Dance with Dragons, Blackfyre Rebellions). Ultimately, I think the potential/probable conflict with Griff is going to result in a similar conclusion as Stannis had. "I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne. I think whatever happens, Dany will understand the true cost of fire and blood, and instead of "going mad" or become a tyrant, will take the damage she may inadvertently cause/witness/play part to and learn from it. Last note, I like your idea of her becoming a nature spirit. It fits one, with the "dream of spring" title, with the series like ending on a note of rebirth and regrowth after death and decay of winter, and it parallels nicely with the Garth the Greenhand "Summer King/Father" idea. The concept of Dany as a mother that gives life is a really cool idea, and goes nicely with her goals now as being a Mother and Protector or "Mhysa" to the downtrodden and afflicted. Ultimately, I'm excited to see where her story goes in the end. Awesome stream David, had my brain gears churning out thoughts and ideas all evening. Really appreciate the introspection and analysis you put in and generate in your fandom on this awesome series we have.
Hearing the meaning of fire and blood makes how D&D made Dany even sadder - they took this message of something worth fighting for and the importance of it to some wishy washy centrist nonsense about if you’re violent in securing your liberation, you’re as bad as your oppressor
I hope characters like Dany are written as honestly as possible. From what I've seen on forums, some women find inspiration from her and I hope that is true for readers in general. I'm not a parent but I've found the way she immediately has to protect people to be very powerful. She doesn't hesitate when she sees the brutal treatment of the slaves and the people enabling this feel her fiery wroth, quite literally. Yet we also learn from her POV that she later reflects on those decisions. She's not afraid to take action but often checks herself, asking if she is doing the right thing based on what she believes is moral, even when it could have serious consequences for her at the personal level.
fever dream is awesome! hidetaka miyazaki (the creator behind dark souls and elden ring) makes his whole team read it to get a sense of description and vibe
Explains a lot of the vibes in Dark Souls, Elden Ring to an extent and obviously Bloodborne. I just left a comment about the dragon stones you can use to quite literally become the Dragon
this is my first time watching one of your videos. you are such a pleasure to watch and your analysis is thought provoking and enlightening. i love dany so much and it’s so fun to learn more about her character ❤
Hey David ! What a treat to wake up to. I absolutely love the “theory’s” and especially the “what if” style videos. In reference to Dani being your favorite and a lot of us being Targaryen fan boys would love to hear your thoughts maybe one day on “what if Targaryen rule stayed at full power, and passed ice and fire prophecy down accurately and responsibly through the lines .” How would they have prepared for the threat in the north? How many dragons would they have by that time? Would the Ice king still have attacked Westeros under full Targaryen strength and rule? Just a cool idea thought I’d share with you and super curious to maybe one day hear your thoughts on a livestream. Love the content and thanks for the hours of entertainment David !
so I thought about this and I think the answer is that Dany's character has been uniquely forged by her upbringing, and her experience with slavery and being a refugee is a key part of informing her moral compass. I think in a way the dynasty had to fall, because a privileged prince or princess wouldn't be the right person to lead the fight and unite everyone
Teddy Roosevelt once delivered a speech immediately following an assassination attempt where he was shot. He finished the speech with the bullet lodged in his chest. That was almost as cool as this video.
lmao he's literally my favorite president for that. he shoulda did that 3rd term tho. 😢 he took out standard oil he need to resurrect and take out all these other monopolies plaguing us🥹 off topic but I love teddy Roosevelt 🤷♀️😅
@@ShOot4theStArZ_aim4theMoOn13I’m a fan as well, I’m not very well read on him, a novice let’s say, the more I learn the more there to like it seems… but honestly he seems too good to be true… I’m just waiting to learn some crazy stuff about him that makes me rethink him as such a heroic larger than life guy. Im not sure anyone around today could possibly fill his shoes but it sure feels like we need a miracle worker to salvage this mess we’re in. 50 years of going in the total opposite direction has left the public rather brainwashed, but clearly the tides are turning… not sure what they’re turning into thi
@swayback7375 he has many flaws. PBS has a documentary called "the roosevelts" by Ken burns. if you were interested 😊 its about teddy, Franklin & Elenor roosevelt. I enjoyed it. but teddy definitely had major flaws and views on important topics like the Buffalo soldiers incident. that stained his presidency & legacy. for me, his energy is what makes me love him. I hate all the president's tbh🤷♀️ I'm Very much anti.. but he was wild. he'd run up & wrestle with people outta nowhere. happy af. he used to say "speak softly & carry a big stick" such a G! he even had his own group of soldiers named the ROUGH RIDERS. in the early 1900s !?!? the ROUGH RIDERS!? LEGEND. he saved the national parks & busted monopolies like standard oil. we have puppet president sadly.. we'll never see the likes of him again and now his watch has ended. lol
27:41 i wish I could cross between dark fantasy universes and give Targs the twinkling dragon torso stone. I feel like it would have really helped Aerion Brightflame's self esteem. Like "here use this and you'll be the best dragon ever buddy, no need to drink weird alchemical stuff"
Your theory iceberg streams are my absolute FAVORITE videos you do. Of course I love the other stuff too but I really like the way you are building on theories to give a more detailed and in depth understanding of a character or story element.
This discussion had me thinking a lot about the Haitian Revolution, which people might not be all that aware of sadly. in 1792 the slaves in San Domingue revolted and killed plantation owners and put fire to the sugar fields and plantations, Fire and Blood. Many of the Revolutions leaders, L'ouverture, Dessalines, Christophe, and Boukan had been slaves themselves. It is a history worth learning about I think.
I heard that it was the slave trade, or something a character in a book about the slave trade, may well be where George got the phrase Fire and Blood from
For any onepiece fans. Anyone else notices that Luffy and Daenerys have common themes. they both free slaves, are destined to bring down a wall, have dragon blood and have general Dawnbringer /sungod vibes.
@spicypineapple2778 Lol. Thank you for the correction. Distractions sometimes cause me to misspell the simplest of words. ( 😆 and admittedly; I tend to get distracted often).
How long would you legitimately expect it run? The books are hundreds of hours to read, tge audiobooks are read fast and take around 50 hours each… I can’t see it working in live action, animation seems like the only real way
@@swayback7375 adaptation is always going to be a balancing act especially for something that long. Like you said, even read quickly it still takes forever. I think the problem was the show was focusing it's very limited time on the wrong things. As such, any live action adaptation will depend on how well the people doing it understand what is really important in the story. Of course everyone's interpretation will be different but I think there are certain parts that most readers would like to see. But still even if you had the best folks adapting it, it would still be very long and time consuming to do well. I know anime is not everyone's cup of poppymilk but I personally think the style of ASOIAF (or at least certain stories within it) would lend themselves very well to that visual approach
I think I can add onto the “fire and blood” phrase being a positive thing. Since George is a sci-fi writer I bet he’s aware of this, plus it’s kind of neat. Obviously blood is an aspect of life in that you only find it in living things, (or recently dead things too I guess) but the same is true of fire too. The hot rapid oxidation that is the fire we see on earth is only seen on earth and is only possible because of the way life on earth has shaped its chemistry. Not even the sun has fire on it in the same sense that earth does because that’s nuclear in nature. Moreover, a lot of metabolism, which is one of the criteria of being alive, is basically the same chemical process that fire is, just at a slower rate and accomplished with water. So life in a sense is basically burning water, and as syrup pointed out men are filled with water, or rather blood. This also seems sort of relevant to me too, but violence is an inherent part of evolution and therefore life. Fire and blood inherently implies both that the virtue of life and the vice of violence are two sides of the same coin
Amazing stream! Touching on how Dany has planted seeds throughout the story, and you think she will plant more without the ability to tend them makes one think. It is said dragons do not sow, do not plant trees. But fire is an essential natural function in nearly all terrestrial ecosystems. It is a restart and clears out/cuts back old growth and makes room for new life and biodiversity to grow and thrive! I think this suits Daenerys beautifully, with what she’s already accomplished and with the foreshadowing we have as of now.
Strangely Stannis is a model for Daenerys' future Westeros Campaign. Only one King went north to protect the realm from the Others - its not looking great for him but his heart was in the right place. Maybe Daenerys will have more success.
Watching this, two random ideas came up, which I now sacrifice to the God of Lorehunting: With all this symbolism of Dragons being comets being swords, and considering the forging of Dawn by Azor and Nissa...is it possible this legend actually describes the "forging" of the original Dragon? Named Dawn? Secondly, Tyrion's bloody white wooden dragon, being both a symbol for dragons and Weirwoods, further hints at their origins being both Fire and Green Magic. Just to contribute. Also: Tyrants and Slavelords can burn for all I care. No tears wept at all.
Completely agree on making the masters work and the needs of war. There is a massive difference between doing it in war or peace. Dany is doing it FOR THEIR BENEFIT. I know they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but these people lack even the concept of democracy, and let's be honest, the nobles would turn that around rather quickly. It's akin to a military draft, there is no difference. Dany's entire journey has been about freeing slaves and making things better, thinking she'd do an about face is insulting. "It's foreshadowed, dragon people are bad. She's going to be insane and burn things."------ Have these people seen Westeros? People suck, it's another massive theme in this story. You can't keep people like that in check without both the carrot and the stick. Everyone else does it, Dany's stick just happens to be dragons. The Andals conquered most of Westeros because they were better armed than the First Men (so we're told, I no longer accept what maesters say as gospel, especially when it concerns Valyrians/First Men or the Andal invasion)
Anyone that sees “mama” and DOESN’T think “BEAR” after is about to experience the Find Out™ part of the saying, lol. Mothers are *so protective*. Dany being both mother and dragon shouldn’t be tough to reconcile 🙃 (Or for another example: how well would stealing an egg away from a dragon mom go? I imagine not very well, but I would absolutely be there with popcorn to watch.) John Picacio is SO GOOD, god his expressions are unmatched. I love his art. His Mel is one of my favorite pieces of art ever. Last so I can unpause and watch lol: does asking politely for freedom ever actually work? I can’t think of an example. 😭 Fire and blood it is, then!
No freedom is rarely if ever freely given Particularly when there is an economic incentive attached to keeping a life in slavery. All slavery has an economic element inherent in it. That’s why GRRM explores the resistance in the slave countries because she unseated their commerce and didn’t replace it.
Jon skinchanging Rhaegal to give Tyrion a dragon ride would be so amazing 🥹 additional thought!! the original Night's Queen was a sort of "mother" to the Others, so perhaps in the Weirwood net the Other recognize her Nissa Nissa/Night's Queen traits, her Nissa Nissa symbolic echos if you will, and begin to call her "mother", which influences Dany to stay to lead the Others back into the gree sea
I've read Asoiaf long before I've discovered your channel and all unbelievable symbolism and theories. Even then I've always thought about Dany as a truly good human being. That does not mean she is always right and true, but that just means being human. She does however learn from her mistakes and always try to repent and do better. Binging your videos and seeing all evidence of her character summed up, only solidified my first impression. I just can't fathom how anyone can think she will do complete 180 and start burning innocent people in her conquest for throne. If something like that happens, it will surely be accident brought on by wildfire caches. After that she won't be able to live with herself.
Because that’s the human thing to do when you’re in a position of power and you have your back up against a wall. The darkness within the human heart prevents us from being good leaders and is why we are prone to repeat our history of blood. That’s the commentary on nuclear fallout. And that’s why Bran is the best choice for king. He is “beyond human.”
@@goldenchipmunk I would say the distinction there is that Skynet is a man-made tool while the Weirwood gods are a naturally existing force that is invested in humanity. Closest thing to an actual god in this world. Skynet decided to attempt the eradication of humans in mimicry of the human need to survive. Bran’s goals are in alignment with Ned’s morals and will produce positive outcomes for society.
Dany makes mistakes but George makes a great point in the story of when you win the war or the battle what comes next and we see Dany struggling with the slavery system and how she goes for each peaceful resolution but it will ultimately end in fire and blood in order to fully stop it
Absolutely love your work. Trying to work through your library haha so much content. I listen to you when i clean my house. Very slow going because i tend to stop and pay attention
I still have hope we’ll see winds someday. Fingers crossed :) your vids made me a mega fan of this franchise. Give me all the spin offs for many years to come lol
Like the 3rd time watching this through I had an epiphany that from what you said , it sounds like Euron could trick Victarion to blow the horn and his soul will be stuck in a dragon for Euron to control like the theory that the Targaryen's ancestors are soul bound to the beasts... thoughts?? Also Elden Ring lore has really expanded my thinking on this stuff, if you haven't had a chance to look into it then definitely recommend!
Ive gone back and forth between the main characters (past and present) and I think Daenerys is the most interesting character ever written (not HBO version)
58:00 great, now I have some very "dudes rock" crow exchange between Kings Landing and the Wall in my head. Rheg: "Guess who just had comet sex? Prince that was promised incoming, babeeee!" Esteemed Maester Aemon: "Noice."
Great to see this reuploaded, I think I know why it got demonetized 😁 Dosh Kaleen ruling over Mereen is brilliant, hope that practice becomes more widespread. I used to believe "men should lead" because they're better at the big picture while women are better in details... But now I'm realizing, at the risk of oversimplifying, men are better in the material/worldly/linear stuff while women are better in the spiritual/more complex stuff. Of course gender isn't everything, but Dosh Kaleen have a lot to offer and Mereen is in great need so perfect solution 🥰
@@serpounce5699 it is a pleasing sacrifice to The God. Blessing of salt upon ya! (But not the plants themselves as that would of course be very damaging to any garden)
I’ve heard some pretty convincing Tyrion arguments also. I prefer to think it’s Tyrion over Euron due to a pretty petty reason… I like Tyrion and I don’t like Euron! 😂😂😂
No hate for any of your guests David, but I have to be honest. Your solo streams are significantly better than your shared streams with other creators. It’s not that they’re not good, they are; but your solo streams are usually much more coherent and focused. Sometimes the shared streams become a bit disorganized and difficult to follow. This one was fantastic. Thank you so much!!
I disagree a bit about when you said that in the first book, Dany is the only Targ and the rest are designed later behind her. On my last re-read of AGOT, I noticed that Bobby B mentions them many times before they ever say anything about Dany. He even says the line "I'll make sure every last one of them is dead" to Ned on their first trip out together when he's staying at winterfell right in the beginning. They mentioned Rhaegar, Ned asks him how much he remembers about that day. I got a very big vibe of "THIS BIG EVENT HAPPENED 15 YEARS AGO SURROUNDING THESE TARGARYEN PEOPLE AND THE MAD KING WAS INSANE" before Dany is even really introduced as a character. So the dynasty as a concept was already there and integral to the plot. Also look at the scans of his original 3 novel pitch to editors, he described the main plot/mystery of the (then) trilogy to be about learning Jon's parentage. All of that was more important and central than Dany's story originally. He scaled her role up later.
"House Targaryen was written as backstory for Daenerys" 👏 This is the best analysis channel there is. So glad you released the edited view, will rewatch again and again.
Jon as well
@@Walkth15wayI mean Jon identifies more with his Stark heritage more than anything.
@@Ashbrash1998 Yeah Grrm has to have the twin protagonists thing in mind from the start.
@Walkth15way can you give an example if you think so?
@@artorhenBasically my argument is that if the Targs only exist as Dany's backstory the same is true for Jon. This is because the mystery of Jon's parentage is built into Book one. This is set up at the start of the book in Jon's early chapters where he mopes about being a bastard, and the pay off for the reader comes during Ned's tower of Joy dream, where the first clue of R+L=J is.
Hi David! I’ve been binging and rewatching your fully produced videos the past couple months and want to say #1 thank you for these edited streams, cuz sadly, my personal flavor of ADHD prevents me from being able to keep focus during the live streams, and #2 I can’t thank you enough for all that you do and the fantastic energy/vibes/silliness you bring. And rad costumes. And all the symbolism that blows my damn mind. Anywhoo, your videos have become my go-to comfort watches on really bad days, when my depression is the gnarliest and I can’t stop spiraling. So, thank you for teaching me all the cool things, making me laugh, and overall helping pull me out of the deep dark pits ❤️
Glad you have found a balanced way to enjoy this stuff. Streams can be a bit much to take in depending on the day
hey just seeing this comment but thank you very much, and yes I do try to offer different formats for content, and it gives me variety to in the ways I can present things
Give me anything Dany and I'm happy. Thank you for this 4 hour treat David.
7:57
You must have been shattered with her later seasons 😂 I was on her side until she met Jon at dragonstone and gave him a speech about how special she was for literally no reason. Im just not gonna wait 5-10 years for the real author to finish these books.
I came into this chanel like two weeks ago and I'm addicted now. You're good dude...
Saddle up!
that was me like last summer now i’m obsessed! 🤘🏻
Don't worry, you'll have plenty of time to watch the 100+ videos on this channel before Winds comes out!
the next step is asking your smart speaker to play the latest podcast from David Lightbringer while you drift off to sleep
@@pankratos5017
David, I can’t believe I’m just now realizing this but you would make an amazing reading teacher. The way you use thinkalouds to explain and make connections is exactly what a great teacher does :)
Is he not teaching us?
38:04 Devotees of Kali often call her Ma Kali because she is the mother, holding our souls as we move through the cosmic timeline. She strips away the ego so we can see what's really there. Dany will be forced to drop the ego (the Game of Thrones) to fulfill her dharma (the Others). It's a great comparison.
You need to go to his channel. He did a long-form video about it. Also, Jai Kali Maa
@@footwearisoptional8766 I'll never hear those words and not think of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. It's wrong, I know, but it's there.
@@jacobenke7936 om nam shivay, om nam shivay because if you're about to be sacrificed to a goddess the thing to do is pray to her hubby, I guess
Reaghar failing to get Dany fully set up for the prophecy to come is a great commentary on parenting. Regardless of your efforts, life has a way of subverting even the best laid plans.
Rhaegar is her brother not her dad
@myujmes I was mixing thoughts. Reaghar failed to set up who he thought was the prince that was promised Jon. Dany ended up being the promised prince instead. I just got myself mixed. When it comes to Targaryen family trees, I usually get mixed up.
Valid it's hard to keep it all together but your point still works
This is the kind of verbal slip that I do, lol. but yes I do think it's very interesting, and it's also interesting that the two chosen ones both had much more troubled upbringings than they would have had the dynasty stayed in place, and those upbringings informed their character
@DavidLightbringer I've been thinking about that timeline a lot. A theorized timeline where things go right for Targaryens and they properly get Westeros set up to fight The Others. Like you said, though, it's important that Dany and Jon have been mostly divorced from the horrible aspects of their ancestry. Allowing for a more just and sustainable future.
So happy for this stream 🔥🙏 The Daenarys Theory Iceberg is back ,and we love it ❤
I LOVE your Daenerys content. Your understanding of her is insightful always.
My favorite character, grew watching the show with my dad and read all the books by the time I turned 16... thank you for honoring her ❤
Every single video you do about Dany is my favorite video! You always bring respect to the conversation that is tragically missing a lot of the time without being biased in your takes. So happy for this upload!!!
"Well she's not a mortal man. She's a damn.... lizard baby"
LUV IT
Outstanding; really appreciate the re-release as this is a really solid piece of work! Crazy that it's nearly 4 hours; your flow makes it fly by. Thank you DL!
It definitely is impressive and well thought out!
Long live book's Daenerys, beautiful as slavers in flames
I’m really been appreciating the content you bring. Discovered your channel last week and been listening to everything. Keep it up.
Praise Garth
Mirri Maz Duur being inside one of the dragons helps explain how there's a (head of the) dragon that will turn against Dany
Great theory, maybe it will even be the same dragon that gets lured away by Dragonbinder and used against Dany
I believe it Mirri Maz Duur is Green Dragon. Drogo is her husband but I don't understand who the White Dragon is? Viserys her brother?. Spirit?
Rhaego, Drogo and Mirri Maz Durr are the sacrificies@@sophiawilson8696
@@sophiawilson8696 Rhaego
Drogon - Khal Drogo, Rhaegal - Rhaego, Viserion - Mirri
1:23:40 I appreciate how Atlantis Morrisette depicted them as having various skin tones. As you said, it was such a massive imperial entity they would have people quite literally from the ends of the earth as well as the more familiar Essosi and Westerosi locales. Too often I see artworks based on things where no such information is given, yet they are usually depicted with 'western European' looks. This image is both visually interesting and also makes sense contextually
Can't be a full Valyrian until she spends 1,000 hours painstakingly building perfectly level roads.
Dragons don’t plant trees they build roads 😂
@@sterlingorganicfarm421that actually works several ways too, roads could be considered “progress” for humanity or civilization but a detriment to the the health of the environment, and arguably detrimental to human health, mental and physical, while trees are essentially the opposite.
You could also say that dragons are designed for destruction but can still be used to create or build.
@@sterlingorganicfarm421 they actualy cut them, aegon cut all the weirwoods
I wonder why would he do that a visión maybe?
Valyirans aren't the sheep herders that found Dragons on the Peninsula. They were from Great Empire of Dawn that travel there and may have mingle with local people who lived there or enslaved them. They been there so long they forget 48 Dragons Lord's Families. For 5000 years.
This is just what's need in the A&E waiting room, you sir are a scholar and a gentleman
Hope that that's better than it sounds! Take care!
@@I_Babeuf Getting there! Appreciate it :)
@@I_Babeufat first i thought it was like the tv network to pitch a pilot episode lol. Hope all is well
@@ThommyofThenn ah if only I had the wit for such japes! All good thanks mate!
Spent the first hour and 10 mins listening while at the gym. Bro, it made the session go by so fast. Great vids! Great content!
A near 4 hr long iceberg video, let’s go!
Yea this is gonna be a "chunker" that I'll watch it in pieces
Lyanna Stark also thought that as well. Rhaegar was looking for someone with old magic in the blood both Elis and Lyanna qualify in that regard. I believe that blood only has old magic in it can successfully breed with a Targeryon dragon bloodline
I thought he had a type, ie: dark hair, dark eyes, boyish looking, and very kind hearted but opinionated
I love the idea of the Dosh Khaleen ruling the shattered slaver's bay
I think Viserion and Reagal are going to make eggs, for the few generals, since Targaryen's were so guarded of the dragons to their detriment and Danny crushes crap traditions.
What if Nissa Nissa WAS originally a Wyrwood tree, and her remains are either the heart of winter or the warlock grove
@@setelliott9683unlikely we will more eggs, dany is closing that chapter of their family history I think…
@@swayback7375 Unlikely, even if Daenery's dragons produce no eggs, which itself is unlikely they won't produce eggs, than there is always Asshai, or any other place tbh. There are bound to be multiple eggs turned to stone, and all it takes is another event such as Daenerys's for Dragons to keep being reborn.
one of my favourite Dany theory is free range viserion, its just so sweet and I genuinely believe it could happen just because of how sad it is
Great job LML, honestly amazing stream. I love when it all comes together. And if I might just add, you have gotten so much better over the years of explaining things, Bravo sir
Dany is a tricky character for me. George rarely writes individuals that do everything correctly, or everything with full justification (grey characters), so I'm on the lookout for a major mistake by Dany, or a "no good option" choice that has major consequences. I feel she has had some with Meereen, but I think she's in for a rough start in Westeros.
I don't see her as a "villain in the making," but similar to how Stannis had his choice to kill Renly and the Battle of the Blackwater backfire (or wildfire) in his face, I think something will happen in Kings Landing that results in a sobering reality check for Dany (everywhere the Dragons danced, the people died). I see this both in an actual sense (Dragons are very difficult to use with precision, such is the nature of fire, thus collateral damage becomes inevitable) and in the sense of a potential conflict with Griff/Faegon. Targ civil wars have a habit of just obliterating the land and people (Aegon's Conquest, Dance with Dragons, Blackfyre Rebellions).
Ultimately, I think the potential/probable conflict with Griff is going to result in a similar conclusion as Stannis had. "I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne. I think whatever happens, Dany will understand the true cost of fire and blood, and instead of "going mad" or become a tyrant, will take the damage she may inadvertently cause/witness/play part to and learn from it.
Last note, I like your idea of her becoming a nature spirit. It fits one, with the "dream of spring" title, with the series like ending on a note of rebirth and regrowth after death and decay of winter, and it parallels nicely with the Garth the Greenhand "Summer King/Father" idea. The concept of Dany as a mother that gives life is a really cool idea, and goes nicely with her goals now as being a Mother and Protector or "Mhysa" to the downtrodden and afflicted. Ultimately, I'm excited to see where her story goes in the end.
Awesome stream David, had my brain gears churning out thoughts and ideas all evening. Really appreciate the introspection and analysis you put in and generate in your fandom on this awesome series we have.
Great idea to rerelease this! Can't wait to listen
Was trying to figure out when this originally streamed. I've been coming to them pretty regularly the last few months but did not find this familiar.
Hearing the meaning of fire and blood makes how D&D made Dany even sadder - they took this message of something worth fighting for and the importance of it to some wishy washy centrist nonsense about if you’re violent in securing your liberation, you’re as bad as your oppressor
For real for real. Free Palestine 🇵🇸
Ah man. Can't believe I missed this live. Thanks for the excellent background video to have while taking care of my bebes.
I hope characters like Dany are written as honestly as possible. From what I've seen on forums, some women find inspiration from her and I hope that is true for readers in general. I'm not a parent but I've found the way she immediately has to protect people to be very powerful. She doesn't hesitate when she sees the brutal treatment of the slaves and the people enabling this feel her fiery wroth, quite literally. Yet we also learn from her POV that she later reflects on those decisions. She's not afraid to take action but often checks herself, asking if she is doing the right thing based on what she believes is moral, even when it could have serious consequences for her at the personal level.
Always love Dany content ! loved your recent reread of her chapter that was a great stream!
Night gathers and my watch begins
At 1hour 22 min you say Martin then correct Marwin ....might not be that much of a mistake ?
fever dream is awesome! hidetaka miyazaki (the creator behind dark souls and elden ring) makes his whole team read it to get a sense of description and vibe
Explains a lot of the vibes in Dark Souls, Elden Ring to an extent and obviously Bloodborne. I just left a comment about the dragon stones you can use to quite literally become the Dragon
this is my first time watching one of your videos. you are such a pleasure to watch and your analysis is thought provoking and enlightening. i love dany so much and it’s so fun to learn more about her character ❤
Hey David ! What a treat to wake up to. I absolutely love the “theory’s” and especially the “what if” style videos. In reference to Dani being your favorite and a lot of us being Targaryen fan boys would love to hear your thoughts maybe one day on “what if Targaryen rule stayed at full power, and passed ice and fire prophecy down accurately and responsibly through the lines .” How would they have prepared for the threat in the north? How many dragons would they have by that time? Would the Ice king still have attacked Westeros under full Targaryen strength and rule? Just a cool idea thought I’d share with you and super curious to maybe one day hear your thoughts on a livestream. Love the content and thanks for the hours of entertainment David !
so I thought about this and I think the answer is that Dany's character has been uniquely forged by her upbringing, and her experience with slavery and being a refugee is a key part of informing her moral compass. I think in a way the dynasty had to fall, because a privileged prince or princess wouldn't be the right person to lead the fight and unite everyone
Teddy Roosevelt once delivered a speech immediately following an assassination attempt where he was shot. He finished the speech with the bullet lodged in his chest. That was almost as cool as this video.
lmao he's literally my favorite president for that. he shoulda did that 3rd term tho. 😢 he took out standard oil he need to resurrect and take out all these other monopolies plaguing us🥹 off topic but I love teddy Roosevelt 🤷♀️😅
@@ShOot4theStArZ_aim4theMoOn13I’m a fan as well, I’m not very well read on him, a novice let’s say, the more I learn the more there to like it seems… but honestly he seems too good to be true… I’m just waiting to learn some crazy stuff about him that makes me rethink him as such a heroic larger than life guy.
Im not sure anyone around today could possibly fill his shoes but it sure feels like we need a miracle worker to salvage this mess we’re in.
50 years of going in the total opposite direction has left the public rather brainwashed, but clearly the tides are turning… not sure what they’re turning into thi
@swayback7375 he has many flaws. PBS has a documentary called "the roosevelts" by Ken burns. if you were interested 😊 its about teddy, Franklin & Elenor roosevelt. I enjoyed it. but teddy definitely had major flaws and views on important topics like the Buffalo soldiers incident. that stained his presidency & legacy. for me, his energy is what makes me love him. I hate all the president's tbh🤷♀️ I'm Very much anti.. but he was wild. he'd run up & wrestle with people outta nowhere. happy af. he used to say "speak softly & carry a big stick" such a G! he even had his own group of soldiers named the ROUGH RIDERS. in the early 1900s !?!? the ROUGH RIDERS!? LEGEND. he saved the national parks & busted monopolies like standard oil. we have puppet president sadly.. we'll never see the likes of him again and now his watch has ended. lol
I am consistently blown away by your insights. "Fire and Blood" as an abolition battle cry a la John Brown? Genius. And I've read Fevre Dream.
Yay! Love early morning content to get the day going 🎉
Ayeeee let’s get our boy here some cheddar for this gem of a stream. Paws off RUclips censorship!
Here! Here!
I've been sure to thank the people who left supercomments. Very heartwarming to see and important 😊
Lmao 😂😂😂
@@CharmagnCody-mw6zr haha not rly a joke but I'm feeling it😂
So, you are a lover of censorship?
What a pleasant morning surprise
27:41 i wish I could cross between dark fantasy universes and give Targs the twinkling dragon torso stone. I feel like it would have really helped Aerion Brightflame's self esteem. Like "here use this and you'll be the best dragon ever buddy, no need to drink weird alchemical stuff"
Ohhhh, I almost forgot! Watching right away. I saw this live, so I definitely know it is excellent!
Your theory iceberg streams are my absolute FAVORITE videos you do. Of course I love the other stuff too but I really like the way you are building on theories to give a more detailed and in depth understanding of a character or story element.
This discussion had me thinking a lot about the Haitian Revolution, which people might not be all that aware of sadly. in 1792 the slaves in San Domingue revolted and killed plantation owners and put fire to the sugar fields and plantations, Fire and Blood. Many of the Revolutions leaders, L'ouverture, Dessalines, Christophe, and Boukan had been slaves themselves. It is a history worth learning about I think.
I heard that it was the slave trade, or something a character in a book about the slave trade, may well be where George got the phrase Fire and Blood from
Thank you for another amazing video ❤ love having your videos on while I work.
I could listen to this dude talk for hours about ice and fire. Love these streams dude.
I'm excited for TWOW, but lately I think I'm more excited to get an update to your theories. You're doing amazing work, dude! Praise Garth
For any onepiece fans. Anyone else notices that Luffy and Daenerys have common themes. they both free slaves, are destined to bring down a wall, have dragon blood and have general Dawnbringer /sungod vibes.
true and they both have the goal to become King/Queen.
Do you visualise asoiaf moments as a manga also?? It would be so awesome and don't get me started on how well i think it would adapt to animation
Well said Tommy!!
I also see fairytail parallels with natsu & Dani. iykyk❤
Came to rewatch the White Walker Iceberg and found this❤️🔥
Thank you🤯
I wish the show had stuck closer to the books. Short cuts really hurt the overall product. (I'm a book purest, tho😊).
Beautiful understatement of how i feel about the show
*purist
lol but I 100 percent agree. They left out wayyy too many good details.
@spicypineapple2778 Lol. Thank you for the correction. Distractions sometimes cause me to misspell the simplest of words. ( 😆 and admittedly; I tend to get distracted often).
How long would you legitimately expect it run?
The books are hundreds of hours to read, tge audiobooks are read fast and take around 50 hours each…
I can’t see it working in live action, animation seems like the only real way
@@swayback7375 adaptation is always going to be a balancing act especially for something that long. Like you said, even read quickly it still takes forever. I think the problem was the show was focusing it's very limited time on the wrong things. As such, any live action adaptation will depend on how well the people doing it understand what is really important in the story. Of course everyone's interpretation will be different but I think there are certain parts that most readers would like to see. But still even if you had the best folks adapting it, it would still be very long and time consuming to do well. I know anime is not everyone's cup of poppymilk but I personally think the style of ASOIAF (or at least certain stories within it) would lend themselves very well to that visual approach
I think I can add onto the “fire and blood” phrase being a positive thing. Since George is a sci-fi writer I bet he’s aware of this, plus it’s kind of neat. Obviously blood is an aspect of life in that you only find it in living things, (or recently dead things too I guess) but the same is true of fire too. The hot rapid oxidation that is the fire we see on earth is only seen on earth and is only possible because of the way life on earth has shaped its chemistry. Not even the sun has fire on it in the same sense that earth does because that’s nuclear in nature. Moreover, a lot of metabolism, which is one of the criteria of being alive, is basically the same chemical process that fire is, just at a slower rate and accomplished with water. So life in a sense is basically burning water, and as syrup pointed out men are filled with water, or rather blood. This also seems sort of relevant to me too, but violence is an inherent part of evolution and therefore life. Fire and blood inherently implies both that the virtue of life and the vice of violence are two sides of the same coin
Amazing stream! Touching on how Dany has planted seeds throughout the story, and you think she will plant more without the ability to tend them makes one think. It is said dragons do not sow, do not plant trees. But fire is an essential natural function in nearly all terrestrial ecosystems. It is a restart and clears out/cuts back old growth and makes room for new life and biodiversity to grow and thrive! I think this suits Daenerys beautifully, with what she’s already accomplished and with the foreshadowing we have as of now.
cleansing fire, exactly. I believe that's her role
I keep missing lives 😢 You are so good at this David! Thank you! I enjoy watching these so much! ❤
Off topic, but the way you talk about your birds is so cute!
Strangely Stannis is a model for Daenerys' future Westeros Campaign. Only one King went north to protect the realm from the Others - its not looking great for him but his heart was in the right place. Maybe Daenerys will have more success.
Watching this, two random ideas came up, which I now sacrifice to the God of Lorehunting:
With all this symbolism of Dragons being comets being swords, and considering the forging of Dawn by Azor and Nissa...is it possible this legend actually describes the "forging" of the original Dragon? Named Dawn?
Secondly, Tyrion's bloody white wooden dragon, being both a symbol for dragons and Weirwoods, further hints at their origins being both Fire and Green Magic.
Just to contribute. Also: Tyrants and Slavelords can burn for all I care. No tears wept at all.
Completely agree on making the masters work and the needs of war. There is a massive difference between doing it in war or peace. Dany is doing it FOR THEIR BENEFIT. I know they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but these people lack even the concept of democracy, and let's be honest, the nobles would turn that around rather quickly. It's akin to a military draft, there is no difference. Dany's entire journey has been about freeing slaves and making things better, thinking she'd do an about face is insulting.
"It's foreshadowed, dragon people are bad. She's going to be insane and burn things."------ Have these people seen Westeros? People suck, it's another massive theme in this story. You can't keep people like that in check without both the carrot and the stick. Everyone else does it, Dany's stick just happens to be dragons. The Andals conquered most of Westeros because they were better armed than the First Men (so we're told, I no longer accept what maesters say as gospel, especially when it concerns Valyrians/First Men or the Andal invasion)
🔥🔥🔥
Love the content, not enough people talk about the importance of symbolism in fantastic stories.
Been loving listening to these while i work thanks david ❤️
RIP Bam Bam Bigelow. Dude was a legit hero who ran into a burning building to save some kids. Respect, legend.
oh wow I didn't know that hell yeah way to be
Anyone that sees “mama” and DOESN’T think “BEAR” after is about to experience the Find Out™ part of the saying, lol. Mothers are *so protective*. Dany being both mother and dragon shouldn’t be tough to reconcile 🙃 (Or for another example: how well would stealing an egg away from a dragon mom go? I imagine not very well, but I would absolutely be there with popcorn to watch.)
John Picacio is SO GOOD, god his expressions are unmatched. I love his art. His Mel is one of my favorite pieces of art ever.
Last so I can unpause and watch lol: does asking politely for freedom ever actually work? I can’t think of an example. 😭 Fire and blood it is, then!
LOL literally as SOON as I started up again, you said mama bears. 😌👌
No freedom is rarely if ever freely given Particularly when there is an economic incentive attached to keeping a life in slavery. All slavery has an economic element inherent in it. That’s why GRRM explores the resistance in the slave countries because she unseated their commerce and didn’t replace it.
Jon skinchanging Rhaegal to give Tyrion a dragon ride would be so amazing 🥹 additional thought!! the original Night's Queen was a sort of "mother" to the Others, so perhaps in the Weirwood net the Other recognize her Nissa Nissa/Night's Queen traits, her Nissa Nissa symbolic echos if you will, and begin to call her "mother", which influences Dany to stay to lead the Others back into the gree sea
what an amazing video thx man
I've read Asoiaf long before I've discovered your channel and all unbelievable symbolism and theories. Even then I've always thought about Dany as a truly good human being. That does not mean she is always right and true, but that just means being human. She does however learn from her mistakes and always try to repent and do better. Binging your videos and seeing all evidence of her character summed up, only solidified my first impression. I just can't fathom how anyone can think she will do complete 180 and start burning innocent people in her conquest for throne.
If something like that happens, it will surely be accident brought on by wildfire caches. After that she won't be able to live with herself.
Because that’s the human thing to do when you’re in a position of power and you have your back up against a wall. The darkness within the human heart prevents us from being good leaders and is why we are prone to repeat our history of blood. That’s the commentary on nuclear fallout.
And that’s why Bran is the best choice for king. He is “beyond human.”
@@jmeds94 bran being the best choice for a ruler is like saying skynet taking over the world was right
@@goldenchipmunk I would say the distinction there is that Skynet is a man-made tool while the Weirwood gods are a naturally existing force that is invested in humanity. Closest thing to an actual god in this world.
Skynet decided to attempt the eradication of humans in mimicry of the human need to survive. Bran’s goals are in alignment with Ned’s morals and will produce positive outcomes for society.
Dany makes mistakes but George makes a great point in the story of when you win the war or the battle what comes next and we see Dany struggling with the slavery system and how she goes for each peaceful resolution but it will ultimately end in fire and blood in order to fully stop it
19:03 damnnn right! Cus she's a baaaad bishhh💯💜❤️🔥🌠 that art is PERFECT too🎉🔥 reVolutionary fasho💜💜
One of your best yet❤
1:19 the Marwyn voice is hilarious! loving every minute of it.🎶
David Dany is both our favs hands down so let’s not be shy about the rose tinted glasses or red eyes 😂😉
This stream was good the first time and somehow even better this time. Thanks bud
i edited like an hour of dead air and rambling out of it and added more art, so that probably helped
@@DavidLightbringer your hard work is much appreciated babeh, best channel on RUclips
I only feel a little bad but I really want to see fAegon get hit with the undeniable truth that he IS fake, before he gets eaten. TWIST THAT KNIFE.
Lolz why?
Bad! I think he is a Targaryen but NOT the one he thinks is!
DL has rose-colored glasses for Daenerys 🔥
I also have a supportive love for Jon Snow ❄️
Absolutely love your work. Trying to work through your library haha so much content. I listen to you when i clean my house. Very slow going because i tend to stop and pay attention
I still have hope we’ll see winds someday. Fingers crossed :) your vids made me a mega fan of this franchise. Give me all the spin offs for many years to come lol
God you guys don't know how I'm gonna enjoy this video till the last second. Thank you David
Excellence as always, much appreciation 🫶
Damn David been putting out heat 💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿
Stunning video. Thanks for the content!
Catching the rewatch!
Like the 3rd time watching this through I had an epiphany that from what you said , it sounds like Euron could trick Victarion to blow the horn and his soul will be stuck in a dragon for Euron to control like the theory that the Targaryen's ancestors are soul bound to the beasts... thoughts?? Also Elden Ring lore has really expanded my thinking on this stuff, if you haven't had a chance to look into it then definitely recommend!
Thanks!
❤️❤️❤️
I wasn’t sure if this was a reupload of a previous stream until you told the story about Goose trying to nest in your drawers. Poor little guy
Ive gone back and forth between the main characters (past and present) and I think Daenerys is the most interesting character ever written (not HBO version)
I've said so too and I agree
There is a theory that Tyrion is a Targaryon, the son of the mad king.
I have a super old pod ast video called Tyrion Targaryen you can find on this channel
Another great vid!
58:00 great, now I have some very "dudes rock" crow exchange between Kings Landing and the Wall in my head.
Rheg: "Guess who just had comet sex? Prince that was promised incoming, babeeee!"
Esteemed Maester Aemon: "Noice."
Great to see this reuploaded, I think I know why it got demonetized 😁 Dosh Kaleen ruling over Mereen is brilliant, hope that practice becomes more widespread. I used to believe "men should lead" because they're better at the big picture while women are better in details... But now I'm realizing, at the risk of oversimplifying, men are better in the material/worldly/linear stuff while women are better in the spiritual/more complex stuff. Of course gender isn't everything, but Dosh Kaleen have a lot to offer and Mereen is in great need so perfect solution 🥰
I don't know where to post this but : What if Blackfires meant also that it BACKfires without the L ?
Thanks for making these you always come threw when I need an escape from get togethers with the in-laws
Ghost grass is supposed to cover the whole world, but I can barely get it to grow in my backyard. What's going wrong?
Soil might be too alkaline. I recommend adding some pearlite for drainage and some of that coco coir stuff
@tommyofthern I've been using thrall's blood. Does that work?
@@serpounce5699 it is a pleasing sacrifice to The God. Blessing of salt upon ya! (But not the plants themselves as that would of course be very damaging to any garden)
Okay that's where I went wrong
I ❤ the internet!
If the dragon has 3 heads. We have Danny and Jon but who's the third dragon?
I really think it's Euron
I’ve heard some pretty convincing Tyrion arguments also. I prefer to think it’s Tyrion over Euron due to a pretty petty reason… I like Tyrion and I don’t like Euron! 😂😂😂
what do you think about the crusader kings 3 AGOT mod? the mod is more geared towards the books
A perfect video to go with my coffee
I just finished a huge mug and I'm watching this whenever I take a "productivity" break 😊
Well thank you for this gift of a stream after a long day of work 😂
Yes! A new video
Kinda poetic that the dragon eggs Illryio gives Dany hatch and one of them later eats Illyrio’s son. Talk about karma.
oh shit I didn't even think about that
Is danny dreaming about burning the others at the trident, relevant to that being her ending...as it was Rhegar's?
When was this streamed originally? I scrolled through the live streams, was it taken down?
It was probably streamed a while ago and perhaps edited later. Haven't gotten too far in yet!
No hate for any of your guests David, but I have to be honest. Your solo streams are significantly better than your shared streams with other creators. It’s not that they’re not good, they are; but your solo streams are usually much more coherent and focused. Sometimes the shared streams become a bit disorganized and difficult to follow.
This one was fantastic. Thank you so much!!
I disagree a bit about when you said that in the first book, Dany is the only Targ and the rest are designed later behind her. On my last re-read of AGOT, I noticed that Bobby B mentions them many times before they ever say anything about Dany. He even says the line "I'll make sure every last one of them is dead" to Ned on their first trip out together when he's staying at winterfell right in the beginning. They mentioned Rhaegar, Ned asks him how much he remembers about that day. I got a very big vibe of "THIS BIG EVENT HAPPENED 15 YEARS AGO SURROUNDING THESE TARGARYEN PEOPLE AND THE MAD KING WAS INSANE" before Dany is even really introduced as a character. So the dynasty as a concept was already there and integral to the plot. Also look at the scans of his original 3 novel pitch to editors, he described the main plot/mystery of the (then) trilogy to be about learning Jon's parentage. All of that was more important and central than Dany's story originally. He scaled her role up later.
I think the idea of Dany is older than most of the plot. It's one of the first things he thought of.
Best character of the entire asoiaf. Glory glory hallelujah
I hope when the horn is blown that many dragons come to fight The Others.