Barbara Natterson-Horowitz: What veterinarians know that doctors don't
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- What do you call a veterinarian that can only take care of one species? A physician. In this short and fascinating talk, Barbara Natterson-Horowitz shares how a species-spanning approach to health can improve medical care of the human animal - particularly when it comes to mental health.
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Cross disciplinary communication is important. And the ego fueled separation of the sciences is detrimental to discovery.
True, ignorance is still a huge problem even for those people that should know it better. It is tempting to try to fit your experimental results and oiobservations to your expectations rather than to find a better model.
TrueKoalaKnight WELL SAID!
I am a veterinarian with a sick child. I can tell you doctors are overworked and stymies by bean counters. Kudos to the ones who persevere and find ways to get patients good care and bless those who really care even while under stress themselves.
My experience with a very complex child has shown me exactly that. No communication is very detrimental. Also doctors do harm from arrogance more than ignorance...
That’s a really good comment!!!
I wish I could find a physician as good as my dog's veterinarian.
Ikr
My doctor is better then my dogs vet
Unfortunately many good doctors are hogtied by the corporations who own their practices. They have to work around the system that values money first so they can get patients the care they need. Must be frustrating.
@@danarzechula3769 Most of my doctors are professors at the state medical school...no private practice. Many of them are not so hot either.
@@Awesumpye25 then your dog needs a new vet
I’ve been a veterinarian for over 10 years now. From my perspective, veterinarians are the opposite of M.D.’s. I will look ANYWHERE in any article or any discipline to find answers for my cases.
Hi! I’m an undergraduate passionate to become a veterinarian. Your comment is very interesting to me. May you explain your perspective more? That would be really helpful.
@@leenmedraj Well, veterinary medicine is kind of the redheaded stepchild of the medical field. We are always overlooked and yet we work harder than many M.D.‘s. We are often limited by the owner’s funds, unable to perform diagnostics, can’t talk to our patient and yet are asked to provide answers on what is harming a pet. That requires us to be creative and flexible. Many vets have invented objects or techniques that are now used on the human side of medicine. We tend to talk to each other about difficult cases and research ANYTHING that might be helpful. And we’ll use absolutely ANY drug off-label that we’re allowed to…that is how we found that the drug Cerenia is good for many things besides nausea, for instance.
It feels like I’m rambling but I hope it was somewhat helpful. Good luck with your veterinary dreams. It’s a long road, but it can be rewarding for the right type of person.
Wow,I see all these beautiful comments about veterinarians and can't be anything other than grateful.I am in the first year of veterinary college and have my doubts from time to time.All I can hear is how veterinarians are underistamated and how they shouldn't be with somebody as big as a doctor "in the same room".But I guess there are honourable people who think otherwise.
So thank you all ❤
Marija Miskovic yes we are the most underestimated professionals bet I to second year vet in vet school
@Paddy Orourke
Greed, arrogance and lethargy are the downfall for humanity.
No profession should be regarded above another one. How much time do you think a physician would have to follow his profession without farmers providing the source for his food, without butchers for his meat or bakers for his bread?
How good can the work of any medical personal be without cleaners and garbage collectors?
Greed, arrogance and lethargy - whenever people had overcome these, the world had changed for the better.
@Paddy Orourke
I think the problem goes much deeper and has much broader effects.
There is a temptation for human beings to highten their own selfesteem by belitteling others.
This happens within families, school classes or workplaces, where we call it mobbing. This happens between different professions, where we call it arrogant behavior. But it also happens between ethnies, religious confessions, even states, where we call it racism, anti semitism, elitism etc. etc.
If you broaden your view you'll find that the state of relationship between physicians and veterinarians is connected to the latest incident in Minneapolis.
I strongly believe that to overcome racism we need to overcome this temptation in ourselves, in our home, our school, our workplace first. Otherwise any action against racism or anti semitism will be on a path to failure right at the beginning.
I'm a retired professor of Anesthesiology. One of the smartest anesthesiologists I know is a veterinarian at the College of Veterinary Medicine, Cornell University in Ithaca NY. He would clearly be a star in any traditional medical school.
In addition I am always amazed at the challenges he handles on an almost daily basis. Patients ranging from a marmoset to a 500 pound tiger. As a physician I am humbled by his clinical prowess.
Dr. Natterson-Horowitz has it absolutely right.
Yes so true.
But if I look to my carrier as a veterinarian,I see that I'm more looser than any other field.
(Land of working veterinarian it's makes difference)
Hello sir i am a student of 10 stndrad from india ladakh, i want to became a veterinary in the future ,but problem is i belongs to farmer family...would you support me for my fututre study...?
In the City of Seattle, male kittens can not be released to their "forever home" unless they have been neutered. At 2 lb.! Prof. Kopman, can you imagine the infinitesimal amounts that they are dealing with? Amazing! And yes, I heard from a vet how someone called him for an emergency worming for his cat. It was a lion. Never a dull day.
I can attest to the professionalism and capability of Cornell animal clinic....impressed.
My father used to say he would rather go to a vet than a doctor. I always understood how right he was...
I'm a medical doctor and a dog rescuer. I spent about half of my 30-year medical career seeing patients at other doctors had not been able to figure out what the diagnosis was. And my personal experience having rescue 54 dogs in 35 years and having seen hundreds of patients I'm hospital wards, and veterinarians make mistakes in about the same rate.
@@Madronaxyz I am sure you are correct as we are only human... Many doctors rely on what the patient tells them where vets have to actually figure it out for themselves... people cannot be relied on to tell the whole story for fear of judgement ...
@@Madronaxyz It is not a lack of mistakes that makes me prefer my vet to most of the doctors I've consulted. It is the caring, the use of intuition, the creativity, the knowledge and all the intangibles that make her a healer rather than merely a medical professional who follows scientific principles. I have met some MDs who are also healers, but my estimate is about 1:10. It's like artists: anyone can put paint on a canvas, but not everyone can paint like Van Gogh.
@@JohnMcKillop Don't subestimate human medicine, because thanks to it, veterinarians have vaccines, many medicines, procedures, and know many diseases
@@forestcb7567 We have vaccines, many medicines, procedures, and know many diseases because of animal research done mostly by veterinary staff with an MD investigator. All pharmacology is tested on animals before tested on humans so veterinary medical staff should not be underestimated in many respects.
Thanx a lot we veterinarians feel honoured !
Unmesh my grandfather was a vet! Unfortunately world war 2 temporarily destroyed his business due to community German hatred! People can learn a lot about their own health by watching how their fur babies treat them! My cat told me I had a yeast infection before humans detected it!
You should! You're brilliant and us 4 legged parents thank you!
The difference between a physician and a vet is that the physicians patients can tell their doctor what's wrong.
No, most people can only tell their physician the symptoms they're feeling. People don't to the doctor and say "Hey, I've got cancer. What should I do about it?"
I said what was wrong not what was causing it
People are notoriously bad at figuring out what's wrong with themselves. Sometimes you would rather let the doctor do tests.
Mujtahid Haque
most people are notoriously bad at everything
"most people are notoriously bad at everything" yes the previous comments were ridiculous but that right there is supper funny!
I am a physician who has been learning from and working with veterinarians for over 20 years. I even have discussed my medical problems with a veterinarian, and received some good advice. I have attended a veterinary conference, and found it interesting.
Margaret Wacker sounds like you’re one of few. Good on you!
Hooray for you!! Many times since the research is done in animals vet med has the drug or treatment before human med. Also our patients are particularly good at humbling us :)
good for you for being a trailblazer! Life is so much richer when the ego is relegated to it's proper place...
In Italy we study basic sciences, 2 years of Physiology, 2 years of General Pathology and 1 year of Pharmacology along with Veterinary students. Veterinarians often conferred with our instructors.
My medical diploma was signed by the Dean of my medical school, a Veterinarian.
There is much to be said of traditional medical science.
Antonio Usm
My dogs and cats get more loving attention, time and care from their Vet, than I get from my own doctor.....😂
It's a sad irony that *because* animal life is seen as less valuable, veterinarians have more leeway & can be more experimental with their treatments, so they can improve upon what was taught in school. When treating human patients, there is always the fear of a lawsuit if the doctor strays from 'by the book.'
Vets can have lawsuits too
Oh yes vets can have lawsuits and they are becoming more and more common sadly
There is much more profit in a patient who is “ managed” as opposed to one who is cured. Humans have insurance
Vets do have lawsuits bud, I'm a Veterinary student from India and have seen few vety. Docs license being cancelled due to certain complications.
Because vets can kill their patients, that is why animals are considered less important
I commented this on another video but I found this one and my comment fits too well so I'm just going to leave this here:
I wish veterinarians could get the recognition they deserve and get paid more. They do lifesaving procedures like surgeons with the increased difficulty of the patient not being able to describe their pain, what happened and when it happened, and where areas of pain are isolated. Vets also have to know the anatomy of multiple breeds and species and they have to know pediatrics to geriatrics and all the specialities in between whereas surgeons specialize in trauma, cardiology, neurology...etc and work together when needed while vets do all this thinking by themselves (or with a small team) and have to know the same spread of information that 3 or 4 surgeons would know when combined. And there's the argument for "human lives are more valuable" but vets get yelled at and told they don't care about the animals precisely because this thinking exists. Veterinarians take their patients lives just as seriously as doctors and surgeons do.
Thank you!!!
How much are you willing and able to pay for lifesaving cancer treatment for yourself or your mother? And how much for your goldfish or parakeet? That's why human doctors get paid more, because we place a higher value on a human life than on animal life. And until Coco the Gorilla learns how to write a check for her own care, that's the way it will always be.
@jocaguz18 either way, Doctors, Surgeons, Veterinarians should have some of their loans forgiven because those professions can sometimes spend their lives paying off their debts.
@@undefinedamboy2664 for some people, their pets are all they have and they value those lives much more than any other person they know. Most people view pets as part of their family. Paying for a pets healthcare comes with getting a pet, if someone knows they can't do that, they should not get a pet.
@jocaguz18 I do agree with the debt statement, I live in the US and I agree, the way our Student Loan system is set up is sorta BS. The average vet student comes out with over $100,000 in debt, which is way more than it should be.
I am so pleased that this physician has brought this subject to light. It is refreshing that someone actually recognizes that each discipline informs the other.
Didn't watch the video, just wanted to point out the fact that veterinarians ARE doctors.
Yeah she mentioned in the video lol
Inspired by the talk. Proud and happy to be a veterinarian
veterinarians are the best doctors in the world
Ikr
Don't forget, vets cured ulcers with antibiotics since the 1940's. Physicians just treated the symptoms with Zantac type drugs til they went over the counter in the 90's.
jcvet33 my husband nearly died from liver failure on Zantac ! The research worldwide was pretty damning about it....but the consultants had no idea it could cause liver failure !!! They don’t even know the side effects of most of the drugs they prescribe
@@antheablackmore5838 I couldn't agree with you more.
Don't forget human doctors invented the vaccines, stethoscope, they discovered many diseases and enzimes, also they discovered the insulin. They've treated and investigating with animals and humans before veterinarians 🙂
@@antheablackmore5838 my dog nearly died because almost 3 veterinarians gave him clindamicine, they thought he had an infection on it's neck. Desperately I consulted with a human doctor and he diagnosed a quemodectoma on it's carotid artery. Please let's stop romantizicing M,D. 's iatrogenies; because veterinarians many times are worse but the difference is that they don't go to jail.
@@forestcb7567 The great king Ashoka (300 BC) of the Maurya Empire (India)erected the first known veterinary hospitals in human history 1,000 years before the first stethoscope was used in western medicine. He arranged cultivation of herbal medicines for men and animals in his empire and adjoining kingdoms. Ashoka also set down laws governing veterinary jurisprudence-rules of conduct between “veterinarians” and the owners of domesticated animals while western medicine was permitting barbers to use leeches and bloodletting to treat infection.
For what it’s worth, I don’t think you understand what Iatrogenesis is. The term refers to a disease or symptoms induced in a patient by a physician’s wrong diagnosis, intervention, error, or general negligence.
Furthermore, studies have been done on medical errors in both hospitals and veterinary clinics.
Jessica Wallis, Daniel Fletcher, and John Ladders in their study, “Medical Errors Cause Harm in Veterinary Hospitals” looked at 542 self-reported medical errors by veterinarians between February 2015 and March 2018. Errors most commonly reached patients without causing harm (45%); however, 15% of all incidents resulted in patient harm. Eight percent of patients harmed suffered permanent morbidity or death. Drilling down into those numbers about 1:100 errors by vets resulted in death.
Medical error is not listed in the top-five causes of death of cats or dogs while it is the third leading cause of death among humans killing 250,000 patients annually.
As to your can’t-pass-the-laugh-test opinion that vets are “many times worse” than doctors with respect to medical errors, lawyers have a maxim they live by: don’t tell me what you think you know: show me what you can prove.
I'm a retired nurse and don't go near a doctor or hospital unless I absolutley have to (i.e for emergencies or if an infection has gone beyond what I can manage myself) - this is because their only answers are to pump you full of drugs or chop bits off your body - no knowledge of what is going on emotiuonally or psychologically in my body required nor adminstered. Personally I'd rather be treated by a vet.
Hi, I fully agree and am also a former ITU nurse. When medicine becomes truly preventative, holistic or whole patient centered we will see a huge improvement.Vetenarians tend to take the psychological condition of their patients far more seriously than do physicians to the detriment of their human patients.
I'm another one. 70 year old retired ER and surgery hospital RN. Haven't been to a doctor except for broken bones in years. I take no meds and treat myself with diet & CBD.
Robyn my cat often tells me I have infections before humans can detect its presence! When i told my dr I'd come in due to my cats response she laughed at me! The next wk symptoms appeared got tested positive for a yeast infection got the last laugh!
I'm an RVT who had to go through 3 hard years before I was finally diagnosed with IBS. I was told I needed to change my diet and lifestyle and spoken to very poorly by several Dr and even my GI. It was a long journey to finally get the help I needed. I often think about how when cats come in for GI and other symptoms like I did would often get a diagnosis within 3-6 months for around the same price I paid over all those years. It's heartbreaking, but I'm happy our furry friends are getting the help they need since they are voiceless. I often joke around and say I'd rather be treated by the vets I work with since they seem to be more caring. I hope this changes soon. It's a sad reality, and fortunately, I don't have it nearly as bad as some other people, but it still sucks.
And to think vets dont even get paid anywhere neqr half the amount a physician does, but with the same atrocious amount of student loans
in short, veterinarians are better and more competent than human doctors.
thanks for saving me 15 min
I don't understand why we have to COMPARE the two? She is clearly trying to make a connection between the two fields, and be because of people like you who love to stigmatize and egotistically prove that one is better than the other, well we wont be able to connect them anytime soon. Not trying to attack but try to see the benefit of COMBINING the two, instead of proving that one is BETTER than the other.
Many doctors go into their field for money. The only degree that makes less money tgan vet med is a PhD in philosophy. The applicant pool is different.
@@mariyanradulov9377 Delivering better care with shared information really should be the goal to benefit all living creatures.
@@hernanperez912 ???
I grew up on a farm and I once had a rash, that just wouldn't go away. Luckily my physician made the connection and referred me to our vet.
Turns out it was a rash that I had probably gotten from out cattle. They gave me the right ointment and diluted it some... rash was gone within days.
Also, I have seen Vets perform surgery with minimal equipment under less than ideal conditions and its amazing what they can do.
Yes, I have nothing but respect for large animal vets! Being on-call is so tough, and often they're out there doing emergency procedures with an animal pitched up to the side of a fence, and they're making makeshift tools out of items on the fly. Super high-stress stuff. I don't think I'd have what it takes to have that kind of problem-solving skills like large animal vets do.
I love this video! Her humility is wonderful. And her recognition of veterinary medicine is appreciated.
Am a veterinarian who has for the first time developed unconditional respect for a human medic...Way to go Dr Horowitz!!. #ZOOBIQUITY, Let us interact, cognize and improve our two desciplines of Medicine
There is a case in Brazil, Curitiba, where I live, that a woman was cured by taking a medicine indicated by a veterinarian. Physicians didn´t have an answer for any medicine to cure her.
"What veterinarians know that doctors don't?" How about everything?
We know how to make our patients sit, stay, and be quiet, ha
Ha, true😂😂😂
I'd rather say human doctors are more specialized in treating one species and specific diseases in humans, while veterinarians have a much broader knowledge about different species, common diseases, species specific diseases. And veterinarians are very practical oriented and very efficient in "simple" (will say most of the time cheap) treatment of their patients, as most owners don't have an insurance for their pets..
Also human doctors have to be more concerned about legal things, as when they do something wrong they get sued much more often, while veterinarians have more chances to learn from their errors (which is positive and negative, vets often have more experience, they know first hand what works and what doesn't)
TiberiuS: there is more and more specializing in the veterinary field than there used to be. I work in a 7 doctor vet clinic, and while we are considered general practice overall, each of our doctors have areas of special interest, like orthopedic surgery, internal medicine, ophthalmology, and exotics medicine (species other than cat/dog) to name a few. One of our doctors recently certified in acupuncture. Veterinary medicine, done right, is anything but simple.
Oh, and our doctors have to carry as much malpractice insurance as a human doctor.
11:02 --> here is the real issue! it takes a lot of courage for some one who has invested a lot of their time and effort... a lifetime, usually, into the highest scholar title a human can achieve, to humble themselves and admit that there is more that they can learn AND that the source, though carrying a less prestigious title, may have more practical knowledge about a particular subject. I don't think this TED talk is particularly enlighening, but it is the white elefant in the room and I appreciae her pointing it out on behalf of better patient care.
most physicians don´t have PhDs or post doc studies. Some have specialties wich are not the same... but still, that ego I´ve seen it in PhDs of every science from literature to medicine .
Small-animal veterinarians actually have it harder than MDs, because they have to understand at least two separate species (dog/cat), often also one or two others (rabbit/ferret/birds,etc). Large-animal veterinarians? Horse/cattle/pig/goat/etc. Challenging! And, yes, I have seen the condescension the speaker mentions, in daily practice.
She keeps asking why this information wasn't put in the hands of physicians, but it has been available this whole time. Anyone can go on a database like PubMed or Web of Science and read articles describing this information and these treatments. As a pre-veterinary student, I read a lot of scientific articles detailing both human and animal medicine. I keep up with medical news in both the medical and veterinary world. And so do many other vet students and veterinarians I know. If doctors would just pay attention to these kinds of articles, they would have known about the treatments as well. It's not "Shouldn't this information have been put into the hands of physicians?" - as if it's the veterinarians' fault. No, it should be "Shouldn't have physicians stopped looking down on the veterinary profession and actually taken the time to look up this information on their own?" It's available after all. (And I don't mean this about all physicians - or all veterinarians - for that matter. I'm just generalizing. I do know that there are some veterinarians who don't pay attention to medical articles and some physicians who do pay attention to veterinary articles.)
I got the impression that she meant that human doctors need to pay more attention to veterinary treatment methods, not that Vets were being gatekeepers.
ZeChachaiimSheli
It’s a lack of humility and lack of curiosity.
It seemed like she was calling out biases in MD/DO training, not saying that vets are the reason this info isn’t available.
it is so basic a 2 year old could figure it out ... doctors are never taught to understand that all life on this planet shares 97% of the same dna ... meaning 97% of the time what works on animals works on us ... doctors may spend years learning but they never actually gain knowledge just memorization of how others deal with the basic problems
Great talk. I totally agree that vets are on the front line with knowledge that doctors should listen to. I've had a dog with diabetes that lived a long life with good vet care. I had a dog that had hind leg knee surgery that my vet got an orthopedic surgeon friend to help out with and the dog did great. They can work together to help all us animals. Make the world a better place for us all.
How many snobbish doctors watched this talk ? Just look at the thumbs down counter.
pixelsmart 😂 53
63 now lol
pixelsmart people don’t _have_ to like this just because you do!
To be honest, id rather have a vet dr work on me....in the event of emergency. They are innovative and resourceful and dont have godlike narcissism.
Every truly loving animal "owner" becomes something of a veterinary diagnostician.
When bad and scary things occur in their lives- as they invariably do in ours - they react much as we do. The one big difference between animals and humans is that humans are foolish enough to believe that our lives are more valuable than theirs, across the board. The word "snobbish" is definitely applicable.
jabbermocky 'Arrogant' definitely.
tootz1950
When I learned that there is a verse in the Christian Bible which gives "men dominion" over the "beasts and birds and fishes" I knew where that sort of belief system was going to end up. Exactly where it is today. Not a pretty picture from any perspective.
And as we've seen in this video, this "snobbishness" is so important to some people that they have no problem sacrificing human lives for it.
Kröte nschemel
Indeed, the audacity of indiscriminate cruelty is exulted and iatrogenically cleansed, simultaneously, by the sacrificial, money-grubbing elements of modern Western medicine. A "Profit above all" approach to healing this planet's natural inhabitants is WRONG, in any language. Love don't make no money and money can't buy any love. Animals know this as truth. We are slow to learn.
well, humans take care of other animals, other animals seldom do take care of humans so the "snobbish" nature is at least partially grounded
I'm a vet who recently underwent laser therapy to correct my short sight, the ophthalmologist was telling me how the veterinary industry was way ahead with its treatment for certain conditions of the eye than human opthalmology and that they could learn a thing or two from us. I love that he acknowledged this, for once it really made me feel like a collegue to other medical professionals, not just a poor cousin.
The only thing I know is that it's some type of code which allows a veterinarian to put doctor in front of his name but a veterinarian is not a doctor I got 2 veterinarians in my family they're not doctors they said they would never put doctor in front of their name that's disrespecting the profession of doctorates you don't do it
We all know even Mike even young kids know so you know it's going on from generation to generation a veterinarian is not a doctor and my son said if he took his 2 dogs to a place and it says doctor veterinarian he said I wouldn't go he said because mom that's disrespecting being a doctor he is not a doctor he is a veterinarian they might want to be a doctor but no doctors treat humans veterinarians treat all kind of animals
An excellent point. It is a pity that practical medicine gets buried by arrogance, perhaps required attendance at some kind of cross-pollination conference should be a requirement of maintaining one's medical license.
I'm a dentist who was looking for help for the 2 baby mynas that fell and got rescued by me (despite my being extremely scared of animals) and luckily stumbled on this excellent TED Talk.
This topic is not new to me as I myself am an advocate of the concept that a patient can never be treated without multidisciplinary approach. But now i really want to become a vet.
I watched two shows on emergency medicine; one about humans, one about our beloved pets. In these two episodes, a dog and a human had basically the same injury; one happened by being T-Boned by another car (the human), and the other being hit by a truck (the dog). Both broke their backs, both had similar injuries and surgeries. But the human spent 9 to 12 months to heal, was in intense pain, and had permanent issues, while the dog healed in 8 to 10 weeks, was completely fine, healed 100%, and is doing great. How do doctors not understand that the immense wealth of knowledge that veterinarians have can be so helpful to treating humans and vis versa? This video is amazing.
Just ask Dr.Wallach. He both a veterinarian as well an MD. He was curing diseases in animals for decades that persist in humans to this day.
Yes.....like MS....
Great talk...she sounds sincerely interested in helping...
unfortunately most physicians are only interested in pushing drugs for the pharmaceutical companies...
This is my favorite video I have ever watched
During WWII, Veterinarians were allowed to treat people (as emergency workers while London was being blitzed). MDs were never allowed to treat animals because they didn't have the knowledge.
During the 2020 pandemic, veterinarians and veterinary technicians were called upon to essentially be "back up" if the frontline human health care workers were sick.
What always amazes me about vets in comparison to physicians is their superior bedside manner and communication skills.
I have seen more patience and compassion being shown towards my dog than I have ever experienced as a patient (even when I was a child). Vets are much more willing to provide support and advice to their patients' primary caregivers too.
*SHE's a "JANEY-COME-LATELY": Joel Wallach exposed this connection decades ago. Be fascinated by "Dead Doctor's Don't Lie" on RUclips.*
This was such a fantastic talk. Never knew there was such a rift between the two professions.
Basically we Mammals have all the same physiology!! And we can get the same illnesses!
As a retired veterinarian, I’ve always felt that we were basically MDs that weren’t restricted to only treating one species. This is the idea of the One Health initiative as everyone can learn from other’s experiences.
We love our profession and we are respectful of life. We NOT only treat our patients, we also take care of the concerns and pain of their guardians. Medical science is one with its nuances by species. Today research centers study a hundred diseases with a common pathophysiological root that affects dogs (the closest biological model to our species) and O. sapiens. Thank you for sensitive and honorable words that honor both medical professions.
"Damned, Jim, I'm a physician, not a veterinarian" - Bones, Star Trek TOS
Actually, the medical staff in Starfleet are trained more like veterinarians than physicians. They have to be able to treat patients of all species. Many episodes in different Star Trek focus on doctors treating pets.
Mujtahid Haque I know ... but this somehow popped up in my mind ... It might even be form Star Trek: The Voyage Home.
Let's be honest. The original series had some pretty conservative ideas next to absolutely visionary ones.
lol
Roy Kliffen
McCoy treated lesser animals, including tribbles
I do not approve of this message.
I treated tribbles and martians you fool!
congratulations for rediscovering theory of biological evolution - Darwin :)
The vets never needed to--only the doctors
Vets are the best!!! Who else agrees with me?
Wow, what very valuable story. Thanks so much doctor for bring this out. I’ve said for years to my children that most of human healing started with an animal.
This is one of the most enlightening talks I have came across. Thank you soo much. ♥️
Amazing! About time!
I wish my doctor was as good as Noel Fitzpatrick, that man is amazing. I would let him operate on me any day and not be worried. He is a miracle worker.
The only big problem I see is that in the dawn of 'modern medicine' , humans were put into a special box, where we were seen as entirely different from animals.. yet we are animals... !!! Medicine for humans needs to move away from the Victorian ideal that humans are somehow completely different ...!????
Just finished James Herriot's first book, "The Lord God Made Them All" , the book that inspired the BBC series "All Creatures Great and Small".. amazing book, amazing true stories....!!
"Species spanning" = humans are animals... animals are animals ... Let us diagnose and treat all animals with similar premise.... ??
Thank you for this talk 🙏
I guess doctor don't aks vets because of our human centric mindset, i could imagine if you explain to the patient that you came up with the diagnosis because the human patient have the same symptoms as some chimpanzee in the zoo, someone will get unreasonably upset because they are now being compared to a chimpanzee.
It's give me a nice feel😊
Being a veterinary student.
What an amazing woman. Wow. I’d never thought of that before. I hope she manages to convince some other doctors, they’re not a very open minded bunch.
I've told my wife: "If I'm ever sick or injured and cant talk: Don't take me to the Veteran Hospital, take me to the Veterinarian Hospital." ...and I meant it.
Lactation consultants have known this information for a long time, but who is listening? They have always known that infants should not be separated, washed, handled by others , injected, and given eye drops until the infant has had long periods of skin to skin time with his mother. It is when the oxytocin level is peaking and through suckling, the baby and mother benefit from the hormone shifts. People always say, "why is breastfeeding so difficult, I thought it was natural?" What part of birth these days is natural I say. We treat baby kittens and puppies better than we treat our own infants. At least we know enough that we don't interfere with animals, lest their own mother reject them or at the very least have suckling issues. I hope someone out there is listening......
+intuitknit Hello, I am a RN and I specialized in Labor & Delivery for 18 years. We did begin to allow bonding once our Lactation nurses provided us with the information, and it work...for the 68% of that population that it would work for. But there are deviants from this issue, as with every issue known to man. We therefore come up with alternatives for the outliers ( The Acute & Chronically ill, Adoptions, Rape & Abuse, The Mcdonald's for dinner group, etc, etc, etc.)
+JACQUELINE DACOSTA why would you not not "allow" bonding? that is insane...and arrogant...to think that a new born baby is better in the arms of a bunch of strangers than in the arms of the mom...evolution and nature know better than a bunch of people who just want control and to feel they have an important job. We had two beautiful children born at home, perfect and healthy, and even better that they did not enter this world to a lot of loud noises and strangers trying to grab the baby and tell the mother what to do.
+JACQUELINE DACOSTA The "outliers" you mentioned probably have even more reason to have skin to skin contact for as long as possible to avoid the long term implication of being denied it. The infant brain amygdala will prune itself back in neuron innervation if denied contact with mother. Incidentally, they found that in race horses that if foals were taken from their mothers and fed with bottles that later they were untrainable and incorrigible. The " outliers" you mention don' t need that feature added to their troubles. Skin to skin for ALL is best practice.
J DACOSTA we in the breastfeeding support community know that those "outliers" even more than your 68% need to be supported in breastfeeding; long term outcomes for users of illicit drugs and their children are vastly improved when we support mothers who use in breastfeeding their babies, which includes safe and reliable access to the drugs and paraphernalia. We know that adoptive mothers can be supported to lactate and breastfeed their adopted babies and that parent-child bonding is more reliable than without breastfeeding. We know that supporting mothers of sick and 'deformed' babies to breastfeed gives better lifelong outcomes to those children and to their mothers.
And we know all of these things because we have not been too arrogant in our species-ism to have ignored what other mammals do, and what veterinarians have learned.
Three cheers for Veterinarians.
Respectfully, I find it ironic that the medical community discovered in 1980 that fear can induce cardiac arrest. There's a sentence from a text in written in 300 AD that expresses the same fact regarding a specific point of time in the future: "Men's heart will fail them for fear."
Nice presentation. Thank you.
Lol, so we should start trusting texts from thousand of years ago to treat patients? Seriously, people gets dissatisfied with doctors whatever they do.
My vet grandfather got the snobbery! Pay attention to what ur animals tell u about ur own health! They can detect human body changes faster than human Mds can!
Brilliant. This lecturer has multi perspective thinking.
I don’t understand why the zoo called a human cardiologist when LA has veterinary specialty hospitals with veterinary cardiologists they could have called.
My friend spend 2 or 3 years just trying to get into vet school, and she's a 4.0 student..
Great talk and it comes as no surprise to those of us with lots of animal experience and knowledge of vets and the work they do.Prof.Noel Fitzpatrick,the British vet who has pioneered so many amazing surgical proceedures and specially made artificial joints and implants for animals has been talking about this for years and saying that the two professions should trade much more information and cooperate.
I keep asking my vet if she can take me as a patient...
my dog nearly died because almost 3 veterinarians gave him clindamicine, they thought he had an infection on it's neck. Desperately I consulted with a human doctor and he diagnosed a quemodectoma on it's carotid artery.
Very moving, and I think she is on the right track. Gave me chills. She's very eloquent.
Humans are exceptional! Exceptionally evil! TNX for the video!
Wow, this is one of the best TED's I've ever seen. I'm not a vet or a physician but I have a biology degree and have worked in therapeutic and environmental science jobs that pertain to both humans and animals, so I think about this topic a lot. --She mentioned the distinction between how many species the two types of doctors have to become experts on, but she forgot one other glaring aspect: animal patients don't receive medical attention until they are ill enough for people to notice. And even then, they can't say "Well this started around Christmas; at first I was just feeling dizzy, then a couple weeks later I started having numbness in my......." in other words, they can't report the history of any symptoms that are strictly self-perceived (PAIN and severe ANXIETY are the ones that haunt me to think about). And not only can animals not say how they feel; many species have an evolutionary proclivity to actively CONCEAL when something is wrong, because in the wild it would make them vulnerable to attack by predators or even their own cohort. So they could be in utter agony and not make a peep about it, until it gets so bad or until other symptoms manifest that would bring them to medical attention. Then human owners expect vets to save their lives, but it may be too late at that point, and it's nobody's fault, yet the owners will still be angry about having to pay the service bill even though it's a fraction of the cost for the same service if it had been on a human.
Absolutely! Unfortunately this is amplified in our prey species of patients. Cows, horses, rabbits, birds... We don't see them until they are VERY sick. It is embedded I their DNA to hide their ailments lest they be preyed upon. So when we see a very dull bird,or rabbit, or whatever - it is EXTREMELY concerning. Because then we know it is very very I'll.
+1 for the world of science.
takes a vets needs to make a human doctor sit up and realize that all animals on this planet are only 3% different from US ... 97% of all living animals on this planet share 97% of the same make up ... of course treatments on humans work on animals and vica versa ... a two year old could figure that out without spending any time in school ... yet a doctor takes years to figure that out after working on animals rather than humans ... an excellent reason why the doctor training programs are lacking they missed the MOST IMPORTANT FACT ... they are not the best they are just people working on other people ... not gods like they think
self injury .. great now humans will have the cone of shame to keep from looking at their incisions lol
yup had to down vote ... this doctor is a waste of time for she finally learned what I knew at 2 ... that animals and people can be treated the same way ... since we are 97% identical ...
I want to be a vet when I grow up. This is inspirational
Great goal! But you'll need to study really hard and have very, very good grades throughout high school and college. It is incredibly hard to get into vet school. Start planning now.
Thanks.... Vet student from Egypt ❤👏👏👏👏
And I heard it was some type of cold and this sounds like a bout of money trick to when you get a veterinarian he can put a doctor in front of his name if you pay this feeAnd I heard it was some type of cold and this sounds like a bout of money trick to when you get a veterinarian he can put a doctor in front of his name if you pay this fee
cheese actually does come from a plant......vegan cheese that is
We should all think of ourselves as human animals. Let's work on finding a way to help veterinary scientists and biomedical scientists communicate more readily.
Many doctors are arrogant. Some even believe Vets are people who failed to get into medical school (I have heard these comments with my own ears) but doctors and vets are very much two sides of one particular coin. It's important that both work together. In Germany, at present, it has some of the lower Covid-19 related deaths compared to many countries its size. The head of the department dealing with the pandemic there is a veterinarian. Vets are used to dealing with viruses/diseases like human medical personnel are not. BSE and such was a short time ago, the veterinary community is used to these things and can assist in cases such as this. Germany see the knowledge they have to offer and are availing of it.
The egos of most human doctors prevents them from being open to what biologists and vets already know. As a biologist, every time she refers to animals and then humans, I cringe; humans are animals.
well yes humans are animals, i think it would be easier to say “animals” than “other animals besides humans.”
The talk is for everybody, simple people who don't have a degree like me. In the day to day like we call humans us and animals the rest of the animal kingdom. I think she just wants to reach all of us. ☺
Breaking the truth : doctors won't even watch this video after watching this title
Actually Vet are kindhearted but doctors are not kindhearted
Recognizing the close relationship between humans and animals and yet denying them basic rights is a wonderful example of cognitive dissonance.
This is so friggin cool!!
My dog has received quite unsatisfactory care from numerous veterinarians, including board-certified specialist veterinarians including ones at a top 10 school of veterinary medicine. Physicians insist on a biopsy to confirm the diagnosis of cancer. Veterinarians are willing to insist that cancer is the diagnosis, even when open bone biopsy X 3 and cytology X 2 are negative, and the dog has lived about 8 times longer than would be expected with the cancer diagnosis, especially given that treatment for cancer was not done, given the lack of indication based on biopsy and cytology results. Given the experience of my dog, I will prefer to receive my own care from physicians. I have not encountered a physician who approves of the care received by my dog from veterinarians.
Toby1 On the other hand, it's often the case that people, regardless how much they care for their pets, will not spend the type of money on them that they will on themselves or other humans. But I have known those who do, who will spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on tests, surgery, and other treatments for their pets. I do not currently have a pet, but my (admittedly second-hand) experience with these people is that their veterinarians will do all the work necessary if they're willing to spend the money.
***** The introduction of health insurance for pets has changed the situation--my dog has health insurance. It doesn't do any good, though, as veterinarians feel that it's okay to amputate a limb based on x-ray only. MDs would not do this, for fear of the multi-million dollar lawsuit that would result if the pathologist finds that there was no cancer and the amputation was not indicated. Since there's no way to put my dog's leg back after amputation, I have decided to rely on my judgment, and my dog's longevity as well as laboratory testing supports what I have decided.
You sound like a difficult client
Our rabbit's vet taught us the correlation between emotional stress and our rabbit's health. We didn't even know that before.
Most exotic animals have that connection. Because of imprinting process.
One of my favorite doctors had the esteemed position of the head of anesthesiology at UCLA medical center almost thrust upon him. He turned them down because he would be theirs 24/7, and he wouldn’t stop the work he did at a clinic. That’s my kind of doctor. He put people ahead of his position.
I really want to attend a vet anaesthetics conference now!
Great conversation. Veterinarians are extremely undervalued. They have to communicate with patients that can’t talk to them and often try to attack them. They have to use their intuition and their intelligence much more than human doctors. It’s the hardest job in the world. It’s no wonder veterinarians have one of the highest suicide rates of all jobs.
Respect your vet!
Witnessing the evolution of the sciences.
Much-needed reflection. Thank you.
A doctor will always be a doctor a veterinarian will never be a doctor because that's not what he is we're talking to difference between animals and humans you can't mix together no matter how hard they want to try
You do understand, veterinarians are doctors as well?
To make it more simple for you, doctor of human medicine, and doctor of veterinary medicine.
Consistent with what Dr. Natterson-Horowitz said, I know of a person who tried to get into veterninary school and was declined. Out of frustration, this person became an MD.
Yes and that has to deal with a large number of species of animals where as a human doctor only has to deal with one. Although veterinarians nowadays usually specialized between large animals and small animals. And then other veterinarian specialize with more exotic animals. You just can't possibly know everything about every species on the planet.
How do they treat self-injuring animals?
We being humans follow various religions and our religions forbid doing many things. Biologically we are treated or studied as advanced social animals but our faith in God, Adam, Eve, Angels, Divine Books, Prophets, Apostles, etc distinguish us from the rest. No doubt, we like or even rear animals, plants and other vegetation mostly by the training and education that we receive from our ancestors, parents, teachers, society, brotherhood, sisterhood, relatives, friends, etc. Treating humans and animals fairly makes us what we desire to become. Doctors and Veterinarians are equally important with regard to health and well being. May Allah Almighty bless us with the knowledge, skills, abilities, competencies, courage, etc. to treat, study and report lives fairly!
Super connection! ZooBiquity! Love It! MsRhuby! Star Diamond
I have graduated from a well known veterinary college and health officer from private university in my country. I believe that i have a well understanding about the intensive relation between a veterinary and human health science.
I feel proud to be your follower. I do trust one health approach is the best path way for our medical future.
ተስፋ አለኝ አንድ ቀን ህልሜ እውን ይሆናል። 🇪🇹
George Bernard Shaw made a witty remark which is relevant to this: “Any man who is a true specialist is, in the strict sense, an idiot.”
Human medicine has become : How do I use this machine for this and that in a human to find out what is going on.
These days it seems, doctors have a hard time diagnosing their human patients.
I have luckily met some docs that were able diagnosing correct without machines.
These days before they treat you, they send you to a facility with diagnostic machines, you have to make another appointment for that, and then after that, you have to make a new appointment with your physician again before you get anything about the medical status of your body and a treatment. And that is very time consuming and frustrating for patients. I wonder, if doctors learn less to diagnose and relay to much on machines these days? Nothing against those machines, but they, the docs, want to send almost every time somewhere before they treat you in the US.
Many, many diseases do demand “machines” to be diagnosed. What should doctors and other health care professionals do, go against the system and diagnose with their own ways?
Yes, I agree that vets are better. I have suffered with illness that a lot of doctors ignored. Which could have killed me. I even got sit in one docs office and listen to her call up another specialist and chew his butt for negligence. Doctors are highly educated, that makes them arrogant. One thing I learned as a mechanic, always listen to your customer. They don’t know whats wrong, but the symptoms they describe will lead you to the problem. I told my doc one time “you are not any smarter than I am, just better educated”, that kinda pissed him off! Good! I think that docs and vets should share resources more often. Thank you for your talk, it affirms something I’ve been saying for years. I grew up on a farm taking care of critters, 30 cows, 12 horses and ponies. Most of what you take care of is dents and dings. I’ve fixed myself and got yelled at for not going to the doc, it turned out great, I did the same thing they would have done at er, and it didn’t cost $1500.