I started making my own gels and hydration/fuel. I have better control over what goes in them, I can balance electrolytes for weather conditions, use higher quality ingredients (highly branched cyclic dextrin rather than maltodextrin for ease on gut), balance HBCD/Fructose ratios for my particular metabolism and stage of the race, make it clean (no food dyes, sucralose, etc.), and portion them out for certain points in the race. And it saves a ton of money. With brand name stuff, I spend around $16.55 for a 3-hour run. With my stuff, it's about $6.24 with HBCD and around $3.27 if I use maltodextrin. I can make gels for around $0.31. This way, I can afford to use gels/fuel on training runs much more to train my gut to handle 90g+ of carbs per hour.
@atropinecaffeine Sure, I actually have a spreadsheet with all the measurements and links to where I purchase ingredients. It's pretty easy, but takes some time to mix yourself. You can make simple gels pretty cheap and easy with Fructose and Maltodextrin. I add in branch chain amino acids and electrolytes (potasium, magnesium, sodium) which takes more time due to small measurements. But if you don't care about that stuff, it's basically 18g malto dextrin and 14g Fructose which gives you about 31g of carbs and 125 calories. I add 84g of water to make it more of a shot, and take it in several swallows over a minute or so (like in a little 4 oz hammer gel bottle). This way it doesn't hit your stomach all at once. I combine this with a hydration drink/fuel which has similar ratios, but twice as much but mixed with 18 oz of water. So like 60g of carbs here. Combined it's about 90g of carbs in a ratio of maltodextrin:Fructose (10:8) that is supposed to be best for absorption and 21 oz of water (what I tend to use in an hour). I do this for every hour I plan to run. Maybe I should make a video for this... oh, and so it doesn't just taste like liquid marshmallows, I add .5 ml of Mio to the "gel" and 2.5 ml to the drink.
@@readupcavemanI don't know of a yt video for this method. Maybe I should make one. It's based on my own research, but mirrors a lot of the name brand stuff out there. Most companies use a combination of maltodextrin and Fructose, some add branch chain amino acids and electrolytes (which is cheap and easy). I personally prefer Highly Branched Cyclic Dextrin to Maltodextrin because it slows absorbtion and doesn't hit your gut as hard, but it's 3x as expensive as simple maltodextrin (so like $0.60 per 125 calorie gel as opposed to $0.31). I just did a 2 hour run this morning and took in 180g of carbs (the equivalent of just over 7 gels) for around $4. $1.92 if I used maltodextrin. And this is with branch chain aminos and electrolytes.
@@atropinecaffeine 10:8 Maltodextrin to Fructose plus water is the basic recipe. I add amino acids and electrolytes as well. It's a bit of an effort, but I train on a 10 day cycle, so 9 days on, one day off. I use the day off to make drinks, gels and recovery (just add water) and do laundry, lots of running kit laundry, lol. You can make them as big or small as you want. Diluted for ease of consumption or concentrated to carry less. You really just need to know how many grams of carbs you want and can tolerate (I can handle about 90g/hr at the moment) and spread them out over time so you don't need to find some bushes.
I’ve listened to the Audible version of your book around 10 times so far. That plus these videos are a running pot of gold. Brilliant and highly valuable insights and actionable tips. Thank you!
Having read your book from front to back a few times, I implemented all of your recommendations (except Kenny Moore's approach--I'm old😆) for my most recent marathon, CIM. Although I slowed down a teeny bit in the last few miles, I felt so much better than last year at the same race, ran 10 minutes faster than the year before, and, BQ'd. I am a believer! Thx
Hi Andrew, your book „Run Elite“ is absolutely fantastic! Thank you for making it available to us! I ran my first 2 marathons this year with your help! I will run my next marathon in April next year and then I would like to run another one after only 3 weeks. Would you have any advice on how to handle these 3 weeks between 2 marathons? Thank you and greetings from Germany!
Just wanted to say thanks for all you do! I’ve been running for just a little over a year and I’ve been learning from scratch. Somewhere along the way I came across your videos. I resonated with your approach so I’ve been using your book to train for my first marathon. I wanted to do something “big” and I got into the Tokyo Marathon. Only 9 weeks to go! I’d be lost without the triphasic model! Thanks!
Absolutely. Nutrition is meant to aid your running and not to juice yourself up to run faster. All those who juice themselves up will have health complications in the long run
This is so interesting - especially about the long long run. I have followed McMillan plans and he emphasizes this (eg 22-24) and it just makes sense to me yet it’s soooo controversial in the running and coaching space due to the risk of injury/diminishing returns. I appreciate you discussing it here!
Mostly in the end of support and through specific. These are very taxing so should be done when you have a lot of fitness. The goal of base is to get ready for training. Support is “training to train”, and specific is training. So these tough workouts require that you can ALREADY do full distance long runs at an easy pace. Therefore base comes before and these are later.
Hi Andrew! As someone who loves to train but also has a demanding work schedule, I was wondering if you had any tips for fitting in the training and recovery…I’m a soon-to-be nurse (I graduate in 1 more semester!) and I will be working 12 hr shifts. I’ll either be on days (7am-7pm) or nights (7pm-7am) three days a week. It is challenging to get training in when I work days, (either running at 5am or 8pm) yet when I work nights, I don’t recover well because the sleep I get during the day after a night shift is not as restorative as a normal night of sleep. Not to mention that I’m pretty much on my feet for nearly 12 hours straight when at work with only short breaks. Appreciate tips from everyone else, too! Thanks!
It depends on what your training for. I have a Runner) who is an ER surgeon and he works crazy long hours at all hours of the day, but he’s also an ultra runner, so his time on fee spent working is actually part of his If you’re not an ultra runner, then just with the way that you feel after a shift it’s best for you to get your run in before your shift starts, be at a early shift or a late shift. Because what are the chances that you’re gonna get off of a shift and still feel like you wanna run? Perhaps not as high. I’ve been in positions where I’m working insanely long stretches of hours as well, and what’s worked for me then is doing multiple very short runs. Sometimes I only have time to get 2 miles in before a session, and then on a lunch break I’ll go get another 40 minutes of running, and then run again as soon as I’m done before eating dinner. Turning like this can make you feel like a bad ass, I know I feel really productive when I’m doing something like this. But you have to have lunch and eat as well don’t you? I find the best way to do. This is use my break time to actually run and then Eat fruits and vegetables, juice, smoothie at any spare moment that I possibly have. You save time, because you don’t need to order things, cook things, clean up, it’s just grabbing a bag of apples and devouring them on your way back from your run or on your commute to or from work. Nice side benefit is that you clean up your diet in this way too eating a lot of produce and minimizing heavy fatty oily salty dead foods. And finally, just be easy on yourself. Perhaps your work does take priority right now, and so get the Running in that you can, but don’t kick yourself if your mileage is lower. It’s OK, you have to live a well rounded life. But almost certainly you can find a time to get in a short run before work, and then another short run either on a break or directly after. One piece of advice is after you finish work do not sit down to end your day relax and eat a meal until you’ve either done the run, or you’ve decided that you’re not going to Run. once you sit down and take a load off. You’re very unlikely to get back up and get out, so get a short run in before you make it home, once you’re home it kind of came over.
Love the content and editing! I started making running and lifting based content a month ago, I was wondering how you did your editing so well? Its currently the part I dread the most haha
Thanks! Send me an email on this, or IG. As it’s not on topic to talk that in this thread. We can talk off RUclips on that. I check IG only rarely so may take me a bit to get back to you there
There’s nothing wrong with running on fat. It’s been shown time and time again that your performance will improve with carbs. Not a debate. If you don’t mind performing at a lower level, then no prob.
Very good video. I especially like the simplification and thorough insight to various training protocals with what some call a "fat adaptive" process. As for Lumen, well, it was good until it went to a subscription model. However, (someone correct me if I'm wrong) I do believe it will give you a reading without a subscription but you can't access any insight as to how to use the information... or, something like that. No matter, I do believe IF you have the money it may be better to wait until VO2 Master's new device comes out with a VCO2 filter. Then, you will be able to use it in REAL TIME to determine not only many metabolic efficiencies/flexibility such as Fat vs. Carbohydrate usage (i.e., RER) but also know your RMR and other equally important ventilory thresholds such at VO2 max. But, with those advantages come a cost that is about 10x the cost of the LUMEN with no ongoing subscription.
I use my Lumen multiple times a day and I generally do my first run of 5 or 10km on an empty stomach (maybe some water or black coffee in the morning) with a Lumen level of 2 max and have no issues for those distances and feel no hunger when I finish and also feel great. I’m assuming this is because I’m fat adapted but I’m not sure if this is what I’m supposed to do. Thoughts? I also prefer to do my runs at a Lumen level of 2 in general.
I’m a consistent runner, I do all my “amateur” runs (intervals, recovery and long) using water only. 3 hrs on water I’ll cramp a bit but can keep going if I like. I usually go out about 2 or 3 hrs after a small breakfast. About a month and half before race, I’ll introduce Gatorade and Honey Stingers to my routine. Do you think my approach is helping to be more fat adapted by training on water?
Hey how’s it going Run elite? I had question about long distance running and heavy upper body bench pressing lifting. Do you think heavy lifting bench press 5 sets 5 can slow down long distance runners and elevate heart rate? I notice when ever I cut out heavy lifting upper body I can run longer long runs 17-18 milers and keep same steady pace at lower heart rate without issues. But when ever I lift heavy bench press and squats I seem struggle with my heart rate during long runs and I run little slower with more elevated heart rate. Feels like it demands more oxygen when I lift heavy. What do you think? And I have had some of my worst half marathon performances when I include heavy bench press. What do you think ?
Are you sure that your insulin levels will go up if you take in carbs at the start of a race? My guess would be that because you are running - your muscles will suck up the carbs using a non-insulin requiring pathway.
You're right there. Taking carbs straight up before a race your muscles will use it. Taking carbs half an hour before a race insulin will have kicked in an leave you in a "valley" carbwise 😴
You're not going to go into keto acidosis, unless you're diabetic. Ketosis is different. I'm also a fan of not eating for 2h before a marathon... first gel at 20 min. Insulin potently switches off fat burning.
Accumulating keystones deliberately isn’t good for long term health. Be it ketone production (lower ketones) or keto acidosis (higher ketones or excessive). Here’s a great evidence based playlist on this if you care to check it out. I think we agree on the points that excessive ketones, not good, and that eating before a race and raising insulin also equals not optimal for performance. Thanks for commenting. Here’s that playlist ruclips.net/p/PL5TLzNi5fYd8H9nNYTHuxVBTCNP0hZDu3&si=_oEaKnFMAlV_d3qu
@runelitecoach Ketosis is pointless but mostly harmless. You'll likely be in ketosis after a long fasted run. Ketoacidosis is very dangerous. But you cannot go into keto acidosis unless you are diabetic... any level of insulin prevents it.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
I started making my own gels and hydration/fuel. I have better control over what goes in them, I can balance electrolytes for weather conditions, use higher quality ingredients (highly branched cyclic dextrin rather than maltodextrin for ease on gut), balance HBCD/Fructose ratios for my particular metabolism and stage of the race, make it clean (no food dyes, sucralose, etc.), and portion them out for certain points in the race. And it saves a ton of money. With brand name stuff, I spend around $16.55 for a 3-hour run. With my stuff, it's about $6.24 with HBCD and around $3.27 if I use maltodextrin. I can make gels for around $0.31. This way, I can afford to use gels/fuel on training runs much more to train my gut to handle 90g+ of carbs per hour.
Recipe? 😁
Please share how you make them! Is there a YT reference similar to your method? Cheers!
@atropinecaffeine Sure, I actually have a spreadsheet with all the measurements and links to where I purchase ingredients. It's pretty easy, but takes some time to mix yourself. You can make simple gels pretty cheap and easy with Fructose and Maltodextrin. I add in branch chain amino acids and electrolytes (potasium, magnesium, sodium) which takes more time due to small measurements. But if you don't care about that stuff, it's basically 18g malto dextrin and 14g Fructose which gives you about 31g of carbs and 125 calories. I add 84g of water to make it more of a shot, and take it in several swallows over a minute or so (like in a little 4 oz hammer gel bottle). This way it doesn't hit your stomach all at once. I combine this with a hydration drink/fuel which has similar ratios, but twice as much but mixed with 18 oz of water. So like 60g of carbs here. Combined it's about 90g of carbs in a ratio of maltodextrin:Fructose (10:8) that is supposed to be best for absorption and 21 oz of water (what I tend to use in an hour). I do this for every hour I plan to run. Maybe I should make a video for this... oh, and so it doesn't just taste like liquid marshmallows, I add .5 ml of Mio to the "gel" and 2.5 ml to the drink.
@@readupcavemanI don't know of a yt video for this method. Maybe I should make one. It's based on my own research, but mirrors a lot of the name brand stuff out there. Most companies use a combination of maltodextrin and Fructose, some add branch chain amino acids and electrolytes (which is cheap and easy). I personally prefer Highly Branched Cyclic Dextrin to Maltodextrin because it slows absorbtion and doesn't hit your gut as hard, but it's 3x as expensive as simple maltodextrin (so like $0.60 per 125 calorie gel as opposed to $0.31).
I just did a 2 hour run this morning and took in 180g of carbs (the equivalent of just over 7 gels) for around $4. $1.92 if I used maltodextrin. And this is with branch chain aminos and electrolytes.
@@atropinecaffeine 10:8 Maltodextrin to Fructose plus water is the basic recipe. I add amino acids and electrolytes as well. It's a bit of an effort, but I train on a 10 day cycle, so 9 days on, one day off. I use the day off to make drinks, gels and recovery (just add water) and do laundry, lots of running kit laundry, lol.
You can make them as big or small as you want. Diluted for ease of consumption or concentrated to carry less. You really just need to know how many grams of carbs you want and can tolerate (I can handle about 90g/hr at the moment) and spread them out over time so you don't need to find some bushes.
Solid video, nice job. Oh, and Santa made it - 2 nights in & I’m liking my new Manta. Thanks for the promo code.
I’ve listened to the Audible version of your book around 10 times so far. That plus these videos are a running pot of gold. Brilliant and highly valuable insights and actionable tips. Thank you!
Haha! I’ve listened at least 5 times and a few sections more. The first section now before a race.
Having read your book from front to back a few times, I implemented all of your recommendations (except Kenny Moore's approach--I'm old😆) for my most recent marathon, CIM. Although I slowed down a teeny bit in the last few miles, I felt so much better than last year at the same race, ran 10 minutes faster than the year before, and, BQ'd. I am a believer! Thx
Hi Andrew, your book „Run Elite“ is absolutely fantastic! Thank you for making it available to us! I ran my first 2 marathons this year with your help! I will run my next marathon in April next year and then I would like to run another one after only 3 weeks. Would you have any advice on how to handle these 3 weeks between 2 marathons? Thank you and greetings from Germany!
Nice voice transition!!! You are really perfecting these videos - great job!
Thank you so much!
Just wanted to say thanks for all you do! I’ve been running for just a little over a year and I’ve been learning from scratch. Somewhere along the way I came across your videos. I resonated with your approach so I’ve been using your book to train for my first marathon. I wanted to do something “big” and I got into the Tokyo Marathon. Only 9 weeks to go! I’d be lost without the triphasic model! Thanks!
Wow amazing! I’m so happy to hear that the Run Elite book has helped you so much. Good luck Brando!
Absolutely. Nutrition is meant to aid your running and not to juice yourself up to run faster.
All those who juice themselves up will have health complications in the long run
Great video. Merry Christmas and a very happy New Year. God bless you richly.
This is so interesting - especially about the long long run. I have followed McMillan plans and he emphasizes this (eg 22-24) and it just makes sense to me yet it’s soooo controversial in the running and coaching space due to the risk of injury/diminishing returns. I appreciate you discussing it here!
Should we, these techniques: depletion, alternate, loooong run and elite run hack, use in base, support or specific phase or training?
Mostly in the end of support and through specific. These are very taxing so should be done when you have a lot of fitness. The goal of base is to get ready for training. Support is “training to train”, and specific is training. So these tough workouts require that you can ALREADY do full distance long runs at an easy pace. Therefore base comes before and these are later.
😢😂🎉😮😅😅😅😅😮😮😮😂😂😢😅😅😅😮😮🎉😅🎉😅😅😮😮😢😮😅😮🎉😮😅😮😢😢😢😮😮🎉😅😅😅😅🎉😂😢😂😂😮😢😢😅😢😮😅😮😢😮😅🎉😮😮😂😢😅😅😅🎉😂😅😢😢😂😮😢😢😅😅😅😮😂😢😂😮😮 21:03 21:03 😅 😅😮😂😢😢😢😮😅🎉😅😅😂21:03 😅❤😮 21:03 a😢 21:03 😅😅😮😮🎉🎉😅😢😮😢😅😢😮😢😮😮😢😮😅🎉😅😂
😅😢😢😮😢😮😮🎉🎉🎉😮😂😮😮😅 😅😅😮😅😮😢😮😅🎉🎉😂😢😂😂😢😮😢
❤😮😮😂😅😊 21:03 😂😂 21:03 😂😂😂❤ 21:03 😮😮😮😅😂🎉😢😂 21:03 ❤😢😢😅😮😮😮😅😢😢😮😅😢😅😮😢😮😅😮😢😅😂😮😂
Great advice
Thank you i
Hi Andrew! As someone who loves to train but also has a demanding work schedule, I was wondering if you had any tips for fitting in the training and recovery…I’m a soon-to-be nurse (I graduate in 1 more semester!) and I will be working 12 hr shifts. I’ll either be on days (7am-7pm) or nights (7pm-7am) three days a week. It is challenging to get training in when I work days, (either running at 5am or 8pm) yet when I work nights, I don’t recover well because the sleep I get during the day after a night shift is not as restorative as a normal night of sleep. Not to mention that I’m pretty much on my feet for nearly 12 hours straight when at work with only short breaks. Appreciate tips from everyone else, too! Thanks!
It depends on what your training for. I have a Runner) who is an ER surgeon and he works crazy long hours at all hours of the day, but he’s also an ultra runner, so his time on fee spent working is actually part of his
If you’re not an ultra runner, then just with the way that you feel after a shift it’s best for you to get your run in before your shift starts, be at a early shift or a late shift. Because what are the chances that you’re gonna get off of a shift and still feel like you wanna run? Perhaps not as high.
I’ve been in positions where I’m working insanely long stretches of hours as well, and what’s worked for me then is doing multiple very short runs. Sometimes I only have time to get 2 miles in before a session, and then on a lunch break I’ll go get another 40 minutes of running, and then run again as soon as I’m done before eating dinner. Turning like this can make you feel like a bad ass, I know I feel really productive when I’m doing something like this. But you have to have lunch and eat as well don’t you? I find the best way to do. This is use my break time to actually run and then Eat fruits and vegetables, juice, smoothie at any spare moment that I possibly have. You save time, because you don’t need to order things, cook things, clean up, it’s just grabbing a bag of apples and devouring them on your way back from your run or on your commute to or from work. Nice side benefit is that you clean up your diet in this way too eating a lot of produce and minimizing heavy fatty oily salty dead foods.
And finally, just be easy on yourself. Perhaps your work does take priority right now, and so get the Running in that you can, but don’t kick yourself if your mileage is lower. It’s OK, you have to live a well rounded life. But almost certainly you can find a time to get in a short run before work, and then another short run either on a break or directly after. One piece of advice is after you finish work do not sit down to end your day relax and eat a meal until you’ve either done the run, or you’ve decided that you’re not going to Run. once you sit down and take a load off. You’re very unlikely to get back up and get out, so get a short run in before you make it home, once you’re home it kind of came over.
eagerly waiting for your book on diet & nutrition
8:14 what about science? Isn't it only your estimation? Any data? How faster must be those last miles?
Love the content and editing! I started making running and lifting based content a month ago, I was wondering how you did your editing so well? Its currently the part I dread the most haha
Thanks! Send me an email on this, or IG. As it’s not on topic to talk that in this thread. We can talk off RUclips on that. I check IG only rarely so may take me a bit to get back to you there
Being fat adapted, i am happy i can maintain my energy on a half marathon so far...maybe next year ill try to test in a full mara
There’s nothing wrong with running on fat. It’s been shown time and time again that your performance will improve with carbs. Not a debate. If you don’t mind performing at a lower level, then no prob.
Very good video. I especially like the simplification and thorough insight to various training protocals with what some call a "fat adaptive" process. As for Lumen, well, it was good until it went to a subscription model. However, (someone correct me if I'm wrong) I do believe it will give you a reading without a subscription but you can't access any insight as to how to use the information... or, something like that. No matter, I do believe IF you have the money it may be better to wait until VO2 Master's new device comes out with a VCO2 filter. Then, you will be able to use it in REAL TIME to determine not only many metabolic efficiencies/flexibility such as Fat vs. Carbohydrate usage (i.e., RER) but also know your RMR and other equally important ventilory thresholds such at VO2 max. But, with those advantages come a cost that is about 10x the cost of the LUMEN with no ongoing subscription.
I use my Lumen multiple times a day and I generally do my first run of 5 or 10km on an empty stomach (maybe some water or black coffee in the morning) with a Lumen level of 2 max and have no issues for those distances and feel no hunger when I finish and also feel great. I’m assuming this is because I’m fat adapted but I’m not sure if this is what I’m supposed to do.
Thoughts?
I also prefer to do my runs at a Lumen level of 2 in general.
Yes it’s fat adaptation combined with your existing glycogen stores. Carb up once you’re back from your run for recovery
I’m a consistent runner, I do all my “amateur” runs (intervals, recovery and long) using water only. 3 hrs on water I’ll cramp a bit but can keep going if I like. I usually go out about 2 or 3 hrs after a small breakfast. About a month and half before race, I’ll introduce Gatorade and Honey Stingers to my routine. Do you think my approach is helping to be more fat adapted by training on water?
I have low thyroid function at times. Do you know how this might affect the way the body metobolises its fuel?
Hey how’s it going Run elite? I had question about long distance running and heavy upper body bench pressing lifting. Do you think heavy lifting bench press 5 sets 5 can slow down long distance runners and elevate heart rate? I notice when ever I cut out heavy lifting upper body I can run longer long runs 17-18 milers and keep same steady pace at lower heart rate without issues. But when ever I lift heavy bench press and squats I seem struggle with my heart rate during long runs and I run little slower with more elevated heart rate. Feels like it demands more oxygen when I lift heavy. What do you think? And I have had some of my worst half marathon performances when I include heavy bench press. What do you think ?
Are you sure that your insulin levels will go up if you take in carbs at the start of a race? My guess would be that because you are running - your muscles will suck up the carbs using a non-insulin requiring pathway.
You're right there. Taking carbs straight up before a race your muscles will use it. Taking carbs half an hour before a race insulin will have kicked in an leave you in a "valley" carbwise 😴
You're not going to go into keto acidosis, unless you're diabetic. Ketosis is different.
I'm also a fan of not eating for 2h before a marathon... first gel at 20 min. Insulin potently switches off fat burning.
Accumulating keystones deliberately isn’t good for long term health. Be it ketone production (lower ketones) or keto acidosis (higher ketones or excessive).
Here’s a great evidence based playlist on this if you care to check it out.
I think we agree on the points that excessive ketones, not good, and that eating before a race and raising insulin also equals not optimal for performance.
Thanks for commenting. Here’s that playlist
ruclips.net/p/PL5TLzNi5fYd8H9nNYTHuxVBTCNP0hZDu3&si=_oEaKnFMAlV_d3qu
@runelitecoach Ketosis is pointless but mostly harmless. You'll likely be in ketosis after a long fasted run. Ketoacidosis is very dangerous. But you cannot go into keto acidosis unless you are diabetic... any level of insulin prevents it.
If I only knew you 3 years ago!😢😅