This Engineering Practice is Making Your Commute More Dangerous
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2022
- Strong Towns president and founder, Chuck Marohn, explains what exactly forgiving design means and how it actually creates a less safe environment by forgiving drivers’ mistakes rather than preventing them.
Confessions of a Recovering Engineer book: www.confessions.engineer
Learn more about forgiving design: www.strongtowns.org/journal/2...
See if Chuck is coming to speak in your area: www.strongtowns.org/events
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Nothing bothers me more than the dozens of six lane, hundred foot wide roads with a speed limit of 50Kph in my city. Such a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature and driver psychology. They’re a waste of useable pedestrian and cycling space, and encourage drivers to speed well over the posted limit; making it more dangerous for everyone.
Man, my hometown has arterials with speed limits of 55 *miles* per hour. It's basically a highway, except you have tons of stoplights and collision points. I can't think of a single arterial that has a speed limit of 50KPH (30MPH). The roads are wide and the blocks are long to accommodate drivers. Of course there will never be political will to change how the city is designed, which is a shame since I do think there's potential to retrofit it some extent.
I agree and yet i also drive way over the speed limits here. Why drive slow when the road is basically a highway? Its just stupid and a waste of space
@@vishaalprasad2020 recently learned, that traffic lights do not operate above 43 mph (70kph) in Germany, because the reaction time above is deemed too unsafe for traffic lights... And in the US 55 mph on an arterial is just absurd. That is faster than the German Speed Limit on urban freeways (50 mph/80 kph)
Risk compensation is is just how humans operate. It's too much work to constantly evaluate true risk, so we operate based on how stressed a situation makes us. Roadways aren't nearly stressful enough to reflect their true risk.
I always feel a certain reverence when walking along a stroad, knowing there are no obstacles for an errant 2,000 pounds of kinetically charged metal and plastic to crash into, except me.
2,000 pounds is very generous. A Ford F150 for example is *at least* 4,000 pounds.
@@morre6748 An F-150 is at least *6,000* pounds.
This seems to go hand in hand with the thing i heard about dutch street design. Once that highway reaches a town it is narrowed down and lined with more trees and such so that way there is a notable change to the driver. You are leaving the wide open fast road and now need to slow down and drive carefully as you are a guest in a place for people.
It is also self-reinforcing. Infrastructure design that is more friendly to other forms of transport will encourage said forms of transport and make people who drive cars more likely to drive differently because there's more types of transport they commonly encounter plus many if not all of these people will also be using some of those themselves.
I love how you balance by both praising and criticizing the design.
It’s about the context!
Why go fast inside a city? It's like giving free pass to shoot guns in public without recourse.
Distracted driver: Runs off the road, kills a family of four standing in the sidewalk
Traffic engineer: "I pardon you"
Max speed limit within city limits should be no more than 25 mph. And the lanes should be as narrow as possible for the cars and rest should be dedicated to mixed bicycle and pedestrian lanes or even a dedicated bus lane
Extremely smart. Thanks for the share. I think some data communications networks may have inherited this problem except for data packets, rather than cars.
Great video
I like to drive the speed limit. It really pisses people behind me off. And I find that immensely entertaining. ☺️
the question is - where's the forgiving design for pedestrians?
big truck bring big money, big bank really full, fix road ok. poor man use foot, small money, dont care zzz, walk on grass
It's over there, behind the light pole that's designed to break away and fall on you if a vehicle hits it. 🤭
Las Vagas streets are designed to make 50mph feel slow
We only think tunnels are expensive because we don't account for the expensive externalities of high speed roads in urban areas.
We can remove high speed roads from urban areas without spending billions on road tunnels.
Tunnels are 4 times more expensive than building overground just to construct them, maintenance is more difficult, and there's a greater risk of fire.
How about building streets (not stroads or roads) that have speed limits of 50 or 30 km/h in cities, that enforce those limits by street design not police
@@jan-lukas and while we wait for a street design the police should do their job and be enabled to effectively enforce speed limits.
The death rate per mile between past and today is not an apples to apples comparison. People’s lifestyles were local and walkable so few driving miles were necessary. Today’s stroads and highways make the deaths per mile need to be very low because VMT is exponentially higher than early automobile era.
The same point also applies to people today who want to bicycle instead of drive. Inherent in that choice is living more locally so the miles traveled tends to be much less than a driving peer. Therefore the death rate per mile of bicycling is not as bad as it looks when compared to driving. That risk level has the multiplier of miles traveled. Reducing mileage reduces total death risk.
That said, of course it is welcome whenever the per mile risk decreases.
"forgiving" design doesnt exist, cars neither forgive or remember. what it's actually called is; a runway, it's designed as a runway. a runway is there for vehicles to drive as fast as humanly possible in order to take off from the ground. when you build a runway on top of a road. people get nervous, their perspective makes them think they're going slow (because it takes longer for you to drive past the environment, making you think you're sitting in the same spot) so they speed up to whatever feels safe, because the speed limit is already out the window; it's no use
Forgiving design does exist, just not in URBAN settings. Highways should be built like that, but again NOT IN CITIES
Designing roads to be dangerous on purpose is not an option though.
The Dutch would like a few words with you ...
Not dangerous but commands your attention and where you naturally drive slower.
Roads shouldn't be designed to be dangerous, but they shouldn't be built inside cities. Streets however should look like dangerous, so drivers will pay more attention, and be built inside cities but not outside of them
@@jan-lukas we can compromise on leaving it at "roads shouldn't be"
no roads - no problem!
dangerous to take at high speed does not equal dangerous
Yes, but Chuck: there are such things as speedometers and self-discipline.
Either you left out the /s sarcasm sign, or you're contradicting the "forgiving" design, which erases self-discipline.
NJB: ruclips.net/video/Ra_0DgnJ1uQ/видео.html Why Cars Rarely Crash into Buildings in the Netherlands
@@SecureLemons A speedometer is a device which measures current speed.
Congratulations! You drive responsibly, now please explain how your self discipline will prevent all other drivers from driving recklessly. The fact of the matter is even if you are responsible you can't force other people to be responsible. So unless we install systems in cars that prevent them from going over the speed limit people are always going to speed no matter what.