This is kind of the same reasoning why I've stayed away from max cushion shoes. I haven't tried them but feel like it would be easy to get lazy on your form and the extra cushioning would mask some problems in the long term. I'm no where near a serious runner but ran a lot of halfs for long runs and I usually just get a pair of shoes that's an older model but still what I'm looking for, and it's been working great for me.
I go for older models often to save money too - I ran in the nimbus 23 a bit this summer and that shoe released in 2020 haha. But yeah as someone who loves max cushion shoes it’s really easy to get sort of addicted
Agree on the shoes. I only wear trainers like Endorphin Speed for workouts, and then real super shoes for big workouts and spicy long runs. Glad to know you think it makes a difference!
That’s excellent, staying healthy is priority number one so whatever works, works. I have no injury history, so I have a bit more freedom to experiment with footwear without being worried about getting hurt. I found cushioned everything helped me improve a lot for a year or two but that going back to some more traditional shoes is helping me reach a new level in the long term
@ my injury history is long and varied 😂🤣 cushioned shoes for me have saved my running! Totally get why you would want to mix it up to load the calf’s and Achilles at the elite level
Great video. I thought I knew a lot about shoes and running technique, but it took me ten years to start to really figure out what my feet and legs needed. I’m still learning. It’s a long road, but worth it.
First timer here - I appreciate your contrarian approach to shoes! Seems like everyone is wanting the most tech for every style of run (I’m guilty of it, but have thought of going back to the Pegasus, Rides, Ghosts of the market)
I prefer the feel of the traditional running shoes like the Pegasus or even something like the Hyperspeed 3 from Asics. However I do use plated trainers, but I prefer the rod technology of Adidas because they feel more natural in my opinion than most plated shoes. I only use them once a week to get a feel for them and my body getting use to them. But most of my running is done is traditional running shoes. My current rotation: Daily Trainer: Adidas SL2 Plated Trainer: Boston 12 Race: Sky Paris
congrats on the race; wut a g… you worked for that and good things are to come! for the ankles and stabilizers, I like to run strides on the grass at the public park and let the small undulations strengthen the feet; be sure to wear spikes or you might fall!
Congrats on the Marathon Time. I was hoping to run my first full marathon this Spring after starting running last May. Unfortunately, I have developed something while running my knees hurt, so that may not happen now. I think it's like IT band stuff from what I have read up on. WIll work on strength training as I sit a lot in my job and try running slower and lessen the miles until hopefully I can recover. I have enjoyed your vids. Keep them up. I am very interested in the shoe video. I started with Nimbus 25 last year. Bought 1080V12 after that. I now have those two along with Speed 4 and 4 Pro's for race day. Boston 12, Deviate Nitro 2 cause they were on a massive discount. Just ordered the Asics Novablast 4 on discount as well.
Focusing on strength and lower mileage a bit while you recover will probably help a lot (though I’m not qualified to give real advice on any injury stuff). That’s a great rotation - puma is one of the few brands I haven’t tried yet so maybe I’ll throw them into the mix in 2025. Glad you’ve enjoyed the vids!
I 100% agree that you should do a lot of runs with a fairly minimal shoe. Especially if running is the main modality you use to exercise. I personally run a lot in the Adios 8 but since I hit legs really hard with a squat day and a hinge day I use "supershoes" as a tool to keep my mileage up to run the day after a leg day.
I enjoy going back to boring daily trainers for a while. Same thing applied to me, as much as i love the feeling of super shoes i do develope some serious weaknesses over time. Going back to daily trainers with lower stack and less of a rocker kind of sucks at first but after a few weeks i have so much more of a natural stride and footstrike. As well as feeling stronger and more explosive. Definilty can feel the strength in my feet and calves improve. When the feet are strong i feel like im digging in rather than gliding like on skates
Wish there was more shoe brand emphasis on the old "minimalist" type of racing flats ala back in the day circa mid 2010s... them shoes were all about the leg/foot technique strengthening via getting out of the way of your body:the ground
Agreed, it’s a bit of a lost art cause the market isn’t there anymore. Though some brands like adidas with the adios 9 and saucony with the sinister are still kind of catering to that demographic. My favorite shoe of all time was the Nike Streak 6
I tried max cushion. Awesome first 150 miles then wore out fast. Went back to reliable Gel Nimbus. Ran for Hopkins? Does Van Allen still coach there? He beat me by a few places at the HS state meet. He's had a good run
yea make a video on ur philosophy on running shoes! that would b very intriguing as i have some thoughts of my own and will b curious to see if ours r similar
Im a little old now and just beginning again and it was 2017 when achieved a 20km long run, since then I rarely trained. I was using very old shoes, never used the modern ones. Now I mostly use the Ghost 16 for slow and tempo runs, and some 29€ with thin and flat sole only for interval to strengthen my feet. The ghost 16 "want" to run a little faster than I do, that's good, and they also should serve me for long runs up to 20km. My Idea is to use a more supportive shoe to increase my distance and later do the same distance with less support or increase my pace on longer distances or do some longer or harder fartlek runs with more supportive and the short and fast with least supportive shoes. The ghost also have kind of a rocker and that rocker is a good thing to keep up the cadence.
That’s a phenomenal plan and very similar to what I’ve done here. I used higher cushion / higher tech to get my volume up, now I’ve been able to go back and reach that same volume with lower cushion / lower tech to reset everything and avoid a plateau. Seems like you’ve got a great method going, and the ghost is a great pick for the use you’ve outlined
@CharlieTeeterRunning yea, when I watched a video about the adizero evo sl I thought that could be the future of tempo - but the evo sl is not much different to my 👻 . Now I heard about Nike Streakfly, and this could follow my 29€ and even do a 5 or 10k competition. Corbon won't help me, this even won't be fun to run with a pace of 5min/km, but maybe I'll get some cheap old Hoka Rocket X for prolonging my tempo runs and getting the first carbon experience. I think I don't have to tell you how I found the sweet spot of elastic recoil cuz you already be on it a lot. But the invisible rope trick will help every runner to get straight and properly aligned: Imagine a rope attached to your sternum, this pulls your body up by the chest. With the up and down oscillation it stretches the whole body and automatically alignes chest, tummy and pelvis. It adjusts you in the beginning and makes you easy and relaxed in the end of your runs. Another trick I found is an imaginary hold from behind, as if there's something heavy tied to your waistline. The body will produce that feeling exactly and you feel much strain on your posterial chain, that what propels you forward. On the contrary you can run like somebody pushes you from your back, that magic trick induces more hip engagement and takes a lot of strain from the legs, your heels will swing up freely. I wondered why I couldn't get my heels up, when tried I had to fight against tense quads. With more hip engagement the strain has gone... It's like the pelvis was following the legs movement and after the pull from behind experiment the pelvis became the leading part and the autonomous reflexes of the legs no longer working against me. But like you are running you don't have that issue I think. But dispensing pelvis rotation and hamstrings/glute effort or training both of it can maybe optimize your mechanics as well.
I think age and lifetime miles are a big factor here. Super shoes have literally rejuvenated my running at age 56 and nearly 45 years of being a runner. They allow me to run faster and longer, recover way faster and just generally feel better. I find most people who tell others to stay away from super shoes are young and fast (like good college runner fast). For some of us super shoes are the best thing to ever happen to our running lives.
You’re absolutely right. My perspective as a young guy who only started running ~8 years ago in high school will be completely different from someone like you who’s been a life long runner. That’s absolutely incredible that super shoes have had that impact for you - being able to progress and enjoy the run is all that matters however anyone chooses to do it. Hyped for you that you’ve been able to experience that rejuvenation in recent years!
@ That being said my favorite shoe right now is the Adidas Evo SL which is not a super shoe (no plate). I also wear the SL2 a lot which is also not plated for ez runs. So it’s not like I’m running every single run in super shoes.
Closing in on 50 I do half my runs in super shoes to protect my soleus and achilles. I can no longer run 60-70 miles a week unless I’m protecting lower legs. I love ground feel and exploding off ball of foot in flatter/flexible shoes but I pay for it the next two days. For me upper legs/hips can still withstand abuse so I transfer the stress up there with super shoes.
Structure 25's are like my guilty pleasure. Almost all of my shoes are better than them and look better than them but I don't care. I love them anyway 😂.
They may feel rough if you’re in the middle of a training block and try to switch into them without an adjustment period. I started using them during a time when my mileage was low and building slowly, and I had no issues at all working my legs more
Races only and one trial long run prior. That’s it for super shoes. Work hard the rest of the time and you’ll get double the benefits come the big day. Otherwise you’re just teaching your body to get lazier.
That’s a good take, though I found a lot of value in using them for a lot of big marathon pace sessions to lock into the exact form / rhythm I would be running with at CIM. I used one pair for the whole build, then broke out a fresh pair of the same model for my last trial LR and the race. Felt a world of difference, but still the same rhythm being in a familiar model
This is kind of the same reasoning why I've stayed away from max cushion shoes. I haven't tried them but feel like it would be easy to get lazy on your form and the extra cushioning would mask some problems in the long term. I'm no where near a serious runner but ran a lot of halfs for long runs and I usually just get a pair of shoes that's an older model but still what I'm looking for, and it's been working great for me.
I go for older models often to save money too - I ran in the nimbus 23 a bit this summer and that shoe released in 2020 haha. But yeah as someone who loves max cushion shoes it’s really easy to get sort of addicted
I use the same approach, get previous model at discount (I.e still a rip off 😂)
They can be great if you mostly run on concrete, however on nice tracks and well-kept trails, I think it's best to use non-super shoes.
Agree on the shoes. I only wear trainers like Endorphin Speed for workouts, and then real super shoes for big workouts and spicy long runs. Glad to know you think it makes a difference!
That’s the method I use when I’m in full training mileage as well. Great to hear I’m not alone in that!
My experience is different, I use cushioned shoes for everything and now I have zero injuries and race waay faster.
Minimal shoes for me = injury
That’s excellent, staying healthy is priority number one so whatever works, works. I have no injury history, so I have a bit more freedom to experiment with footwear without being worried about getting hurt. I found cushioned everything helped me improve a lot for a year or two but that going back to some more traditional shoes is helping me reach a new level in the long term
@ my injury history is long and varied 😂🤣 cushioned shoes for me have saved my running!
Totally get why you would want to mix it up to load the calf’s and Achilles at the elite level
Great video. I thought I knew a lot about shoes and running technique, but it took me ten years to start to really figure out what my feet and legs needed. I’m still learning. It’s a long road, but worth it.
I’m definitely still learning too - it’s a fun road to be on though!
First timer here - I appreciate your contrarian approach to shoes! Seems like everyone is wanting the most tech for every style of run (I’m guilty of it, but have thought of going back to the Pegasus, Rides, Ghosts of the market)
Glad to have found this channel!
Great video explaining thoughts in depth.
I prefer the feel of the traditional running shoes like the Pegasus or even something like the Hyperspeed 3 from Asics. However I do use plated trainers, but I prefer the rod technology of Adidas because they feel more natural in my opinion than most plated shoes. I only use them once a week to get a feel for them and my body getting use to them. But most of my running is done is traditional running shoes. My current rotation:
Daily Trainer: Adidas SL2
Plated Trainer: Boston 12
Race: Sky Paris
Good rotation, I’ve heard great things about the SL2
congrats on the race; wut a g… you worked for that and good things are to come!
for the ankles and stabilizers, I like to run strides on the grass at the public park and let the small undulations strengthen the feet; be sure to wear spikes or you might fall!
Thanks so much! I’m a big fan of grass strides. I like to do them barefoot if the grass is nice enough but spikes are always great
Congrats on the Marathon Time. I was hoping to run my first full marathon this Spring after starting running last May. Unfortunately, I have developed something while running my knees hurt, so that may not happen now. I think it's like IT band stuff from what I have read up on. WIll work on strength training as I sit a lot in my job and try running slower and lessen the miles until hopefully I can recover.
I have enjoyed your vids. Keep them up. I am very interested in the shoe video. I started with Nimbus 25 last year. Bought 1080V12 after that. I now have those two along with Speed 4 and 4 Pro's for race day. Boston 12, Deviate Nitro 2 cause they were on a massive discount. Just ordered the Asics Novablast 4 on discount as well.
Focusing on strength and lower mileage a bit while you recover will probably help a lot (though I’m not qualified to give real advice on any injury stuff). That’s a great rotation - puma is one of the few brands I haven’t tried yet so maybe I’ll throw them into the mix in 2025. Glad you’ve enjoyed the vids!
Feeling homesick missing my stl running routes this is like actually what i needed today thank u
Always love the local routes after being away for a few months
I 100% agree that you should do a lot of runs with a fairly minimal shoe. Especially if running is the main modality you use to exercise.
I personally run a lot in the Adios 8 but since I hit legs really hard with a squat day and a hinge day I use "supershoes" as a tool to keep my mileage up to run the day after a leg day.
Sounds like a great balance to me. I’ve heard good things about the adios 8, a couple of my college teammates loved them
I want a shoe video as you were saying at the end!
I enjoy going back to boring daily trainers for a while. Same thing applied to me, as much as i love the feeling of super shoes i do develope some serious weaknesses over time. Going back to daily trainers with lower stack and less of a rocker kind of sucks at first but after a few weeks i have so much more of a natural stride and footstrike. As well as feeling stronger and more explosive. Definilty can feel the strength in my feet and calves improve. When the feet are strong i feel like im digging in rather than gliding like on skates
That’s a great analogy at the end, I definitely agree. Also makes super shoes feel super again when you do go to use them on big days
Wish there was more shoe brand emphasis on the old "minimalist" type of racing flats ala back in the day circa mid 2010s... them shoes were all about the leg/foot technique strengthening via getting out of the way of your body:the ground
Agreed, it’s a bit of a lost art cause the market isn’t there anymore. Though some brands like adidas with the adios 9 and saucony with the sinister are still kind of catering to that demographic. My favorite shoe of all time was the Nike Streak 6
I tried max cushion. Awesome first 150 miles then wore out fast. Went back to reliable Gel Nimbus.
Ran for Hopkins? Does Van Allen still coach there? He beat me by a few places at the HS state meet. He's had a good run
Bobby is still coaching there, yeah! He’s the main reason I committed out of high school - very good coach, he taught me a whole lot
100% agree!
this. I pretty much do all my mileage in structures.
Do you feel like the structures are rough and will cause injury?
@@maskedduck3929 not at all. theyre very neutral for a "stability shoe". just a boring basic shoe
yea make a video on ur philosophy on running shoes! that would b very intriguing as i have some thoughts of my own and will b curious to see if ours r similar
Im a little old now and just beginning again and it was 2017 when achieved a 20km long run, since then I rarely trained. I was using very old shoes, never used the modern ones.
Now I mostly use the Ghost 16 for slow and tempo runs, and some 29€ with thin and flat sole only for interval to strengthen my feet.
The ghost 16 "want" to run a little faster than I do, that's good, and they also should serve me for long runs up to 20km.
My Idea is to use a more supportive shoe to increase my distance and later do the same distance with less support or increase my pace on longer distances or do some longer or harder fartlek runs with more supportive and the short and fast with least supportive shoes.
The ghost also have kind of a rocker and that rocker is a good thing to keep up the cadence.
That’s a phenomenal plan and very similar to what I’ve done here. I used higher cushion / higher tech to get my volume up, now I’ve been able to go back and reach that same volume with lower cushion / lower tech to reset everything and avoid a plateau. Seems like you’ve got a great method going, and the ghost is a great pick for the use you’ve outlined
@CharlieTeeterRunning yea, when I watched a video about the adizero evo sl I thought that could be the future of tempo - but the evo sl is not much different to my 👻 .
Now I heard about Nike Streakfly, and this could follow my 29€ and even do a 5 or 10k competition.
Corbon won't help me, this even won't be fun to run with a pace of 5min/km, but maybe I'll get some cheap old Hoka Rocket X for prolonging my tempo runs and getting the first carbon experience.
I think I don't have to tell you how I found the sweet spot of elastic recoil cuz you already be on it a lot.
But the invisible rope trick will help every runner to get straight and properly aligned: Imagine a rope attached to your sternum, this pulls your body up by the chest. With the up and down oscillation it stretches the whole body and automatically alignes chest, tummy and pelvis. It adjusts you in the beginning and makes you easy and relaxed in the end of your runs.
Another trick I found is an imaginary hold from behind, as if there's something heavy tied to your waistline. The body will produce that feeling exactly and you feel much strain on your posterial chain, that what propels you forward.
On the contrary you can run like somebody pushes you from your back, that magic trick induces more hip engagement and takes a lot of strain from the legs, your heels will swing up freely.
I wondered why I couldn't get my heels up, when tried I had to fight against tense quads. With more hip engagement the strain has gone...
It's like the pelvis was following the legs movement and after the pull from behind experiment the pelvis became the leading part and the autonomous reflexes of the legs no longer working against me.
But like you are running you don't have that issue I think.
But dispensing pelvis rotation and hamstrings/glute effort or training both of it can maybe optimize your mechanics as well.
I think age and lifetime miles are a big factor here. Super shoes have literally rejuvenated my running at age 56 and nearly 45 years of being a runner. They allow me to run faster and longer, recover way faster and just generally feel better. I find most people who tell others to stay away from super shoes are young and fast (like good college runner fast). For some of us super shoes are the best thing to ever happen to our running lives.
You’re absolutely right. My perspective as a young guy who only started running ~8 years ago in high school will be completely different from someone like you who’s been a life long runner. That’s absolutely incredible that super shoes have had that impact for you - being able to progress and enjoy the run is all that matters however anyone chooses to do it. Hyped for you that you’ve been able to experience that rejuvenation in recent years!
@ That being said my favorite shoe right now is the Adidas Evo SL which is not a super shoe (no plate). I also wear the SL2 a lot which is also not plated for ez runs. So it’s not like I’m running every single run in super shoes.
Bang on
Closing in on 50 I do half my runs in super shoes to protect my soleus and achilles. I can no longer run 60-70 miles a week unless I’m protecting lower legs. I love ground feel and exploding off ball of foot in flatter/flexible shoes but I pay for it the next two days. For me upper legs/hips can still withstand abuse so I transfer the stress up there with super shoes.
That seems like a great system for your needs. Health is priority number one for sure
I've seen my buddy Conner wear Structures for a long run before. I would love to see your shoe rotation!
Websters track looks DOPE
It’s easily one of the best in STL now, super hype
Subscribed!
very cool
Like this comment if you love regular trainers
The only time i am in running shoes is when I am running. The other 99.9 percent of the time im in barefoot shoes.
Structure 25's are like my guilty pleasure. Almost all of my shoes are better than them and look better than them but I don't care. I love them anyway 😂.
Agreed, I’ll always defend them
Shoe philosophy video please
Only reason I train in the structures
Do you feel like the structures are rough and will cause injury?
I rotate between them and vomeros, I have been rotating between the two for about a year and have had no injuries or issue whatsoever.
I made a decision not to run in plated shoes for January, except for one race at the end of the month, this video has justified that decision for me 🙂
Isn't the structure/stability shoes in general, all about "shoes that do the work for you".. or am I wrong, never really got into those kind of things
They may feel rough if you’re in the middle of a training block and try to switch into them without an adjustment period. I started using them during a time when my mileage was low and building slowly, and I had no issues at all working my legs more
Races only and one trial long run prior. That’s it for super shoes. Work hard the rest of the time and you’ll get double the benefits come the big day. Otherwise you’re just teaching your body to get lazier.
That’s a good take, though I found a lot of value in using them for a lot of big marathon pace sessions to lock into the exact form / rhythm I would be running with at CIM. I used one pair for the whole build, then broke out a fresh pair of the same model for my last trial LR and the race. Felt a world of difference, but still the same rhythm being in a familiar model
Beast
This is sandbagging at its finest
Do the results lie though?