Mead was like that recurrent villain that always came up with a new plan to defeat the protagonists, being defeated but returning over and over, until the players had enough.
I like how this banning baton pass is like “killing” someone, which the heroes have a moral code to never do. So mead taunts them, urging them to kill him so his philosophy wins, and yet the hero’s prevail, their moral code intact
I laughed so much at this video. The editing, the storytelling, Mead obeying the letter of the law while also being the biggest troll possible. It's brilliant.
It’s like that one coach in the early days of the NHL who is directly responsible for several rules to professional hockey, by being as obstinate/disruptive but Within the Letter as possjble
2:50 Also Whirlwind Skarm isn't common because it's incompatible with Drill Peck (breeding weirdness). If you want to run a phasing move on Skarm, you don't also wanna tell your opponent if you have Drill Peck just because you're running Whirlwind, so most just run Roar.
@@lucasfellegger5185 In gen 1 TCG, the mr mime card was pretty much the face of stall decks. He has an unassuming 40 hp, but his ability causes all damage done to him to just be negated unless its 20 damage or less. This meant both that a lot of cards just couldn't hurt him, and those who could would have to do so in 2 hits. This damage could also be healed back with both potions and the poke centre card which discarded all your energies for a full heal on everyone. In a stall deck this didn't matter, as you wouldn't be attacking, just waiting till your opponent decks out.
Paid attention to this channel since last year. Kudos for continually putting out creative content that not only stays true to your interests and who you seem to be, but also engages the audience. That’s no small feat! Congrats on the rapid growth
Also notable, Skarmory doesn't like having to run Whirlwind since that means it can't run Drill Peck which is like its only usable attacking move bar HP
Gardevoir has had a 100% success rate in enabling Belly Drum Extremespeed Linoone with double screens/Memento. Kinda funny considering Mr. Mime did something almost identical and went to jail over it.
That's a lot more interactive and is a lot weaker to phasing. You can roar Linoone on his BD turn, there's stuff linoone can't KO at +6, you can roar out or kill the gardevoir before they get both screens up - much more counterplay.
I think that part at the end is what a lot of people forget. SOMEBODY needs to step up and prove just how broken something is, or it will forever become a scourge upon the given meta. (This is true outside of Pokemon aswell)
mime was one of my favorite PU pokemon through gens 6 and 7. Technician icy wind, charge beam, magical leaf, gleam, sometimes psywave as a joke. hes always been fun as a low tier spattacker
I used to run Baton Pass Mr. Mime with Magic Bounce Espeon back in Gen 6. People forgot he was part Fairy now, so I used him to wall out a lot of Draco Meteors and set up.
this is interesting as the ladder I'm most used to is balanced hack mons and prankster haze (haze affects the field so dark types don't stop this) is a staple there so it's interesting to see how other meta games deal with boosts.
I've NEVER agreed with the full ban on Baton Pass, my idea would be to ban Baton Pass with ways to boost stats and trapping moves. This would allow for dry-passing and passing Substitutes, allowing Celebi to escape Pursuit (since Baton Pass doesn't trigger Pursuit like U-Turn). My favorite team that I've made was a 6th Gen VoltTurn team with a Mega Lopunny that carried Baton Pass as a means to pivot, I also had a Choice Band Talonflame and a Defog Mew, so I could get away with sacrifice Quick Attack. Now I can't use it because Baton Pass is banned when there was a solution to allow non-toxic uses of the move.
Awesome video! I hope u cover the sand veil ban as well altho vapicuno and bkc have done so as well. I feel with the influx of new players its worth revisiting such a broken strategy of the format in your style!
if i was a player and in was getting targeted by the mods this hard and every time i changed my team to adapt to a ban they banned it again i would get pretty demoralized. like the mods made the right call don't get me wrong but if i was mead man i would feel bad
he actually does this on purpose to bring attention to broken stuff and get it banned - he is a very good player and uses real teams on ladder all the time
I do wish we could still baton pass, even if it is restricted to no stat boosts. There are many good defensive pivots that would really benefit from a slow baton pass
Taunt exists I don't see why it was banned in general there's counterplay to pretty much any move so I find a list banning certain moves and Pokemon to be unnecessary and limiting. I get why it's a thing in something like Yu-Gi-Oh cause ftks are a thing but it's not like someone can't be prepared for boton pass when taunt exists. It's just a great utility move to prevent setup in general so it boggles my mind why anything has to be banned
@@joshuabradford8206 In gen 3, Taunt lasts a grand total of 2 turns. also, it's blocked by substitute, which BPers are going to do anyway, Also, if they're faster then you because they say, D danced, then taunt will fail to prevent the bp, and they'll probably run you over, so you have to premptively taunt before they do any boosts, at which point, you're playing a 50%50% where nothing happens to them, or they get a free hit on you. taunt is powerful, but its not good at all at stopping bp
@@joshuabradford8206It boggles my mind that terrible players like you still go around saying this after all these years. There’s a format on Showdown that doesn’t ban anything; evasion, baton pass, Uber pokemon etc., can all be used, and there’s no sleep clause or anything either. And guess what? It’s a completely chaotic shitshow and was pretty quickly shown to be uncompetitive, with many matches being decided in a coin toss with player skill having minimal impact on the outcome. Pokemon is a poorly balanced game in a lot of ways, especially where the singles format is concerned, as the only competitive aspect the devs put consideration into is doubles/VGC format. And unlike most games where the devs will routinely patch in buffs and nerfs to keep the meta as balanced as possible, Game Freak has zero interest in doing so. So if you want to get into pokemon singles, you can either go with your idea of a completely free reign game with little competitive potential, or you can do your best to build a healthy meta with the broken pieces GF has given us with some bans and clauses. Not surprisingly, most top singles players think your idea is trash.
In my opinion, this would justify an entire Baton Pass ban, that reaction to Hypno seemed petty and unjustified. Well, such is the nature of complex bans and considering how things ended up anyway, it was a pointless decision. I know it will be hard to convince an old format to change at this point, though since every other generation agreed that Baton Pass is a game breaking move, they might be onto something.
calm mind pass and SD pass aren't broken - they're actually very dynamic and fun strategies but they have a lot of counterplay. for example, you can't just calm mind pass willy nilly if they have blissey or snorlax alive, you have to 1) remove their special walls and 2) actually find an opportunity to spend turns calm minding and batoning without getting ko'd or phased. dry baton passing no boosts is also really healthy for the metagame - it allows you to escape trappers, gain tempo, but at the cost of an entire move slot. so the complex ban preserves all of this really interesting and fun stuff but gets rid of the 1 dimensional chaining strategies.
I played against Mead tonight! I beat him twice, but I had the honor of getting swept by his belly drum Marowak the final game even when I knew it was coming.
Knowing smogon has the capacity to fundamentally alter mechanics for stuff like sleep clause, it makes me wonder why they don't just alter the move baton pass to not pass more than one "move's" worth of stat increases at a time, and perhaps to make those stat increases go away if the user further stat boosts after recieving baton pass boosts.
Pretty sure the sleep clause and freeze clauses are based on precedent, as the Pokémon Stadium games have actually done this "fundamental alteration of game mechanics" first. So yeah, smogon doesn't just change game mechanics however they please; they only replicate what is actually possible in the games. In fact, the entirety of Smogon's tiering system is simply a "documented gentlemen's agreement" on what players want to follow, and their bans/clauses are no different.
@@breloommaster12 i know changing things whenever they want would be disasterous. But id argue complex bans can be just as bad for similar reasons: alienating players by straying too far from the source material. I wasn't suggesting this as a simple fix, but more curious if it was even on the table for the community as a whole to decide upon together. At the end of the day pokemon was not made with competitive fairness in mind---and at times sticking to the source material may be diametrically opposed to even the loosest definition of competitive fairness.
@@breloommaster12 in real life you could just have the players switch in and out to reset rule breaking. They could have easily made it work like that or just banned Mr mim from using baton pass or anything else. Seems like Smogon is not the brightest bunch we also went a year with houndstone being banned because they didn't want to ban last respects because reasons...
@@CivilizedWasteland when you start to get too complex, it easily wanders into "favoritism" territory. "Banning Baton Pass from only Mr Mime" has the same energy as "banning Speed Boost from Blaziken", "banning Fishious Rend from Dracovish", "banning Thousand Arrows from Zygarde-50%" and _literally countless_ other examples throughout history because there's always some way to "nerf a broken Pokemon to become more manageable". If this kind of specific ban were to be applied to Mr Mime, why shouldn't other Pokemon share this privilege? Rest assured that it won't end with just Mr Mime; *everyone* would suggest for their own complex bans to be applied to whatever Pokemon they want to remain in the meta and not be banned outright. The Houndstone ban is a part of this; Smogon does not ban moves until they have proven to be broken on MORE THAN ONE user, but since Houndstone was literally the only mon available at the time, they could not go through with banning Respects and had to wait for other Last Respects users to be released (aka the Basculegions) so they can go ahead to ban the move as a whole. You may not like this system, but it has already proven effective at discerning which aspect of a Pokemon/move is actually broken. Take Cyclizar for example, who broke the meta with its fast Shed Tail + Regenerator combo so they banned Cyclizar. However, later Orthworm proved that it was Shed Tail itself that was enough of a problem even without Cyclizar's superior traits. Smogon's system of "widescale banning" is effective at identifying problematic elements of the meta instead of trying to "manually cherrypick" what is deemed to be broken or not.
@@breloommaster12 I don't need you to regurgitate stupid arbitrary decisions that they barely follow. Last respects was obviously broken there was no reason to wait on a pokemon that wasn't even in the game yet.
Another point in Mimes favor is that, if it becomes necessary, its perfectly capable of just spamming Psychic with all those boosts. I also love how Cradily was usually the recipient of all of this as it had Suction Cups, so you couldn't Phase it, and it had natural healing with Giga Drain
Things like this made me wish there was a way to have Baton Pass to be exclusively Dry Pass (no stats being passed) without a complex ban. However that's unfortunately not possible
I noticed that Hypnosis was used a couple of time(5:01)(7:00). The accuracy on the move is atrocious(60%). There is no Wide Lens this generation to help boost the accuracy. If Hypnosis misses, the opponent will have a chance to break the Substitute.
Oooo I am here so early. Nice. Why would you need to use baton pass to pivot if you're not interested in passing on stat buffs? Can't you just switch like normal? I thought the benefit of volt switch and U-turn was that they also deal damage
Even if U-turn did 1 damage, it would still be useful for gaining switch advantage on the opponent. You already see this in recent times, such as Tapu Koko favouring U-turn over Volt Switch just for the ability to pivot instead of opting for more damage. Baton Pass being a 0 damage U-turn was just as useful; in fact it is sometimes MORE useful since it unconditionally escapes Pursuit unlike a faster U-turn which still gets caught by Pursuit
The idea is that if you dry pass on a fast mon, it's basically the same as a switch but it goes after a potential switch from your opponent. That way, you'd have an advantage against their switch-in, possibly making them switch again and giving you even more momentum.
@@joefarrow1599 You also get to see IF they clicked an attack. so even then you can also react by picking a better counter/resist. so no matter what they do, you will force a switch or a bad stay on the next round, meaning you can't go wrong if you know you have a good receiver, while they will ideally take at least as much chip as you do, if not much more. It's a free click in many situations and it can be devastating in a favorable rock-paper-scissors end game, even if your opponent plays perfectly.
Really cool topic. Would you be interested in covering the role that Scizor has had in competitive singles? One specific question I've always had is why Scizor is never seen in older competitive gens but ramped up in usage later on
Plus steel/bug has always been good but w fairy introduced steel is much, much better. Especially considering steel no longer resists dark and ghost since gen 6, so resisting dark is nice too post knock off buff/introduction of fantastic dark types gen 8/9. Tldr: technician and change to the type chart is why scizor is now usable.
Just wait until the Future Paradox form of Mr.Mime, Iron Jester, finishes repairing his Time Machine with the help of his current Katoninan and Galarian forms of Mr.Mime in order to return to the Gen 3 OU and delete the baton pass restrictions in order to wreak havoc once again.
I dont understand. Why ban soundproof when Mr. Mime is the problem? Why does exploud also have to suffer ;_; Do people think a recipient that can counter play roar would be to strong? Then wheres all the octillery and cradely sweeper teams?
it sure is! batoning when they switch skarm in lets you bring in mag for free, it also lets you escape being trapped by dug, etc. it's great for gaining tempo but at the cost of a move slot, which keeps it balanced
I hope that in modern metagames, Baton Pass is unbanned as a Scouting Move, but the Stat passing is banned as a whole. Because it can allow Pokemon without a pivot move to scout into a safer teammate.
If i got nickel for every weird gen 1 pink pokemon that completely break metagame i would get 2 nickels, which is not a lot but weird that happened twice
I feel like I'm the only person who has mr.mime as one of their top 10 favourite pokemon simply because of the silly strategies you can do in a playthrough and competitive. Also he's just a lil goofy guy he kinda cute right?
There is quite a bit of comedy gold hidden in here. Mr Mime, the creepy clown, gets banned for his crimes in OU, only to be replaced by the notorious pedophile, Hypno. Sadly, you never mentioned why Octillery was the premier receiver during the era without the one statboost rule, you could have added another unapreciated, somewhat creepy Pokemon to the fellony list.
It seems that Gengar is the only OU pokemon with haze and haze isn't part of its standard set (and there are a lot of moves listed). There are some UUBL pokemon too, still UUBL usually means unviable for OU. Roar is probably more versatile than haze in general
![The Gen 3 OU Iceberg Explained [Part 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8dh4MSEt6aY/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Gen 3 OU Iceberg Explained [Part 1]](/img/tr.png)
I'm hosting a $2800+ Gen 3 OU Tournament. Check out the commentary here:
www.youtube.com/@jimothygaming/videos
I think Jim meant to link his ADV Revival playlist for anyone confused
Mead was like that recurrent villain that always came up with a new plan to defeat the protagonists, being defeated but returning over and over, until the players had enough.
Nah, more like the villain who won but the system kept shackling him so he just coming back with new loopholes just for the lols
Sounds like Dennis
I like how this banning baton pass is like “killing” someone, which the heroes have a moral code to never do. So mead taunts them, urging them to kill him so his philosophy wins, and yet the hero’s prevail, their moral code intact
He's gotten other stuff banned too like sand veil Cacturne
Sounds like the gen 3 OU community are full of sore losers tbh.
Mr. Mime deflects the bans with his sickly sense of humor
*A clownly power*
He gives suicune a coupon for new phasing moves but it is expired.
*This is a mimey joke*
"I have never listened to a rule, that is my rule. Do you hear? I don't."
-Mr. Mime
“I got that reference” moment
Ttar throws skarmory at Poliwrath. Poliwrath flips skarm like a coin. Skarm lands heads up, which means poliwrath goes home.
Mr. Mime (soundproof): "Your rules don't affect me because I can't hear 'em!"
I laughed so much at this video. The editing, the storytelling, Mead obeying the letter of the law while also being the biggest troll possible. It's brilliant.
As they say in the awesome show Suits, "He may not break the rules, but he'll bend the shit out of them!"
I like how in this story, Ubers is a jail which means Mr Mime was probably getting beat up by all the inmates in there. Poor Mr Mime
It’s like that one coach in the early days of the NHL who is directly responsible for several rules to professional hockey, by being as obstinate/disruptive but Within the Letter as possjble
2:50 Also Whirlwind Skarm isn't common because it's incompatible with Drill Peck (breeding weirdness). If you want to run a phasing move on Skarm, you don't also wanna tell your opponent if you have Drill Peck just because you're running Whirlwind, so most just run Roar.
Id just use hp flying instead with whirlwind
@@Blanktester685 issue with that is then you can't use Hidden Power Ground to take care of Magneton
@@CaptainJLinebeckyolo skarm isn't that common though
skarmory. its name is skarmory. it's literally insane how lazy people are
@@bbbbbbbbbbbrbbrb Sure b
Funny how Mr. Mime, such an unassuming pokemon, had both a broken meta in VGC and in the trading card game.
What happened in tcg
@@lucasfellegger5185
In gen 1 TCG, the mr mime card was pretty much the face of stall decks. He has an unassuming 40 hp, but his ability causes all damage done to him to just be negated unless its 20 damage or less. This meant both that a lot of cards just couldn't hurt him, and those who could would have to do so in 2 hits. This damage could also be healed back with both potions and the poke centre card which discarded all your energies for a full heal on everyone. In a stall deck this didn't matter, as you wouldn't be attacking, just waiting till your opponent decks out.
What happened in VGC?
@@smogon3215 nothing, OP is confusing vgc with singles
I'd also add that Mr mime was also a war criminal in Pokemon unite. Being called a "support" but dealing more damage than certain attacking pokemon
Are you saying then, that Mr Mime could be associated with Iron Muguilis and Chugilis? As he once terrorized an entire meta?
It was years ago. They probably just take inspiration from him. He's still in a maximum security prison with no contact with the outside world.
The Mr. Mime Mead used was the criminal one from Detective Pikachu isn’t it.
Paid attention to this channel since last year. Kudos for continually putting out creative content that not only stays true to your interests and who you seem to be, but also engages the audience.
That’s no small feat! Congrats on the rapid growth
This is truly insane Jimothy.
Also notable, Skarmory doesn't like having to run Whirlwind since that means it can't run Drill Peck which is like its only usable attacking move bar HP
I remember when baton pass teams were considered a meme back in gen 4 and eventually evolved into being a problem many years later. Crazy.
Gardevoir has had a 100% success rate in enabling Belly Drum Extremespeed Linoone with double screens/Memento. Kinda funny considering Mr. Mime did something almost identical and went to jail over it.
That's a lot more interactive and is a lot weaker to phasing. You can roar Linoone on his BD turn, there's stuff linoone can't KO at +6, you can roar out or kill the gardevoir before they get both screens up - much more counterplay.
“100% success rate” lol…
I praise Mead for what he did. He had his big brain steaming when he cooked up those builds. The dude was one fire
I think that part at the end is what a lot of people forget. SOMEBODY needs to step up and prove just how broken something is, or it will forever become a scourge upon the given meta. (This is true outside of Pokemon aswell)
He has sound proof as he is deaf to our calls for justice
Mead could be secretly under control from Iron Mugulis after it went back in time
When I played pokemon I nicknamed my Mr. Mime to "The Joker" from Batman. Now I found out that he really was insane 🤡
mime was one of my favorite PU pokemon through gens 6 and 7. Technician icy wind, charge beam, magical leaf, gleam, sometimes psywave as a joke. hes always been fun as a low tier spattacker
Soundproof working on heal bell is funny
Mr. Mime has done many cool things.
Also we need a video about scale shot, it's basically changed all gen9 formats
Dice hydreigon cool
I used to run Baton Pass Mr. Mime with Magic Bounce Espeon back in Gen 6.
People forgot he was part Fairy now, so I used him to wall out a lot of Draco Meteors and set up.
this is interesting as the ladder I'm most used to is balanced hack mons and prankster haze (haze affects the field so dark types don't stop this) is a staple there so it's interesting to see how other meta games deal with boosts.
Lol at tyranitar escorting mr mime to jail in his little hat
The OG Bad guy of competitive Pokémon. Even wxorse than Old Money.
Mead was also a War criminal lol.
I've NEVER agreed with the full ban on Baton Pass, my idea would be to ban Baton Pass with ways to boost stats and trapping moves.
This would allow for dry-passing and passing Substitutes, allowing Celebi to escape Pursuit (since Baton Pass doesn't trigger Pursuit like U-Turn).
My favorite team that I've made was a 6th Gen VoltTurn team with a Mega Lopunny that carried Baton Pass as a means to pivot, I also had a Choice Band Talonflame and a Defog Mew, so I could get away with sacrifice Quick Attack. Now I can't use it because Baton Pass is banned when there was a solution to allow non-toxic uses of the move.
I've really been enjoying your dive into this niche competitive history. I remember when NetBattle was still the thing.
Digging the freshness of the thumbnail Mr. Cool. Great work as usual.
Awesome video! I hope u cover the sand veil ban as well altho vapicuno and bkc have done so as well. I feel with the influx of new players its worth revisiting such a broken strategy of the format in your style!
if i was a player and in was getting targeted by the mods this hard and every time i changed my team to adapt to a ban they banned it again i would get pretty demoralized. like the mods made the right call don't get me wrong but if i was mead man i would feel bad
Trust me, mead is doing fine with a real team
You could be the best player on Smogon that's not really the point he was making.
he actually does this on purpose to bring attention to broken stuff and get it banned - he is a very good player and uses real teams on ladder all the time
@@cryptooooooooo this
"mr mime does not seem like a very threatening pokemon."
Pokemon unite: "allow me to introduce myself."
The competitive crimes of Mr Mime in Gen 3 are nothing compared to the war crimes of Mr Mime in Syria.
mr rime was such a delayed evo because they only just let him out of prison for what he did to that family in Siberia
@@carissapeacock Excited for the Netflix documentary: 'Mime Jr. - In the Mind of Sinnoh's Youngest Serial Killer'
@@danielmee3938 i still cant believe how he managed to kill that many by the age of 2
@@carissapeacockIncluding his older sibling when he was barely a month old
Galarian mr mime is definitely on an offenders register
What people dont like to mention is the series of crimes in 1997-2004 that Mr. Mime seemingly was nowhere to found during.
Great work on the editing. Video quality is top notch
Mr. Mime and Mead are insane
I do wish we could still baton pass, even if it is restricted to no stat boosts. There are many good defensive pivots that would really benefit from a slow baton pass
even a fast one is good! because baton pass lets you react to if the opponent switched out or not that turn
Taunt exists I don't see why it was banned in general there's counterplay to pretty much any move so I find a list banning certain moves and Pokemon to be unnecessary and limiting. I get why it's a thing in something like Yu-Gi-Oh cause ftks are a thing but it's not like someone can't be prepared for boton pass when taunt exists. It's just a great utility move to prevent setup in general so it boggles my mind why anything has to be banned
@@joshuabradford8206 In gen 3, Taunt lasts a grand total of 2 turns. also, it's blocked by substitute, which BPers are going to do anyway,
Also, if they're faster then you because they say, D danced, then taunt will fail to prevent the bp, and they'll probably run you over, so you have to premptively taunt before they do any boosts, at which point, you're playing a 50%50% where nothing happens to them, or they get a free hit on you.
taunt is powerful, but its not good at all at stopping bp
@@joshuabradford8206It boggles my mind that terrible players like you still go around saying this after all these years.
There’s a format on Showdown that doesn’t ban anything; evasion, baton pass, Uber pokemon etc., can all be used, and there’s no sleep clause or anything either. And guess what? It’s a completely chaotic shitshow and was pretty quickly shown to be uncompetitive, with many matches being decided in a coin toss with player skill having minimal impact on the outcome.
Pokemon is a poorly balanced game in a lot of ways, especially where the singles format is concerned, as the only competitive aspect the devs put consideration into is doubles/VGC format. And unlike most games where the devs will routinely patch in buffs and nerfs to keep the meta as balanced as possible, Game Freak has zero interest in doing so. So if you want to get into pokemon singles, you can either go with your idea of a completely free reign game with little competitive potential, or you can do your best to build a healthy meta with the broken pieces GF has given us with some bans and clauses. Not surprisingly, most top singles players think your idea is trash.
@@joshuabradford8206my taunt mon when their +2 speed baton passer taunts it first then passes to celebi (its not looking so good all of a sudden)
In my opinion, this would justify an entire Baton Pass ban, that reaction to Hypno seemed petty and unjustified. Well, such is the nature of complex bans and considering how things ended up anyway, it was a pointless decision.
I know it will be hard to convince an old format to change at this point, though since every other generation agreed that Baton Pass is a game breaking move, they might be onto something.
calm mind pass and SD pass aren't broken - they're actually very dynamic and fun strategies but they have a lot of counterplay. for example, you can't just calm mind pass willy nilly if they have blissey or snorlax alive, you have to 1) remove their special walls and 2) actually find an opportunity to spend turns calm minding and batoning without getting ko'd or phased.
dry baton passing no boosts is also really healthy for the metagame - it allows you to escape trappers, gain tempo, but at the cost of an entire move slot.
so the complex ban preserves all of this really interesting and fun stuff but gets rid of the 1 dimensional chaining strategies.
Thank you for all your hard work. You are putting yourself at great risk to deliver us the truth
Very well put together video as always
JUSTICE FOR EXPLOUD
This was a fun video! Great work Jim
Jimothy breaking out his finest Donkey Kong albums from his record collection. You love to see it.
As Mr Mimes lawer we will not take this slander laying down see you in court MR "Jimothy"
So mr mime got banned because he got them airpods
This video spoke to the innermost aspects of my soul
I played against Mead tonight! I beat him twice, but I had the honor of getting swept by his belly drum Marowak the final game even when I knew it was coming.
Thank you Mead, this is insane.
The edit in the banned part was just amazing.
"Finally Smogon decided that the best course of action was to wipe Mead off the face of the Earth"
Knowing smogon has the capacity to fundamentally alter mechanics for stuff like sleep clause, it makes me wonder why they don't just alter the move baton pass to not pass more than one "move's" worth of stat increases at a time, and perhaps to make those stat increases go away if the user further stat boosts after recieving baton pass boosts.
Pretty sure the sleep clause and freeze clauses are based on precedent, as the Pokémon Stadium games have actually done this "fundamental alteration of game mechanics" first.
So yeah, smogon doesn't just change game mechanics however they please; they only replicate what is actually possible in the games. In fact, the entirety of Smogon's tiering system is simply a "documented gentlemen's agreement" on what players want to follow, and their bans/clauses are no different.
@@breloommaster12 i know changing things whenever they want would be disasterous. But id argue complex bans can be just as bad for similar reasons: alienating players by straying too far from the source material. I wasn't suggesting this as a simple fix, but more curious if it was even on the table for the community as a whole to decide upon together. At the end of the day pokemon was not made with competitive fairness in mind---and at times sticking to the source material may be diametrically opposed to even the loosest definition of competitive fairness.
@@breloommaster12 in real life you could just have the players switch in and out to reset rule breaking. They could have easily made it work like that or just banned Mr mim from using baton pass or anything else. Seems like Smogon is not the brightest bunch we also went a year with houndstone being banned because they didn't want to ban last respects because reasons...
@@CivilizedWasteland when you start to get too complex, it easily wanders into "favoritism" territory. "Banning Baton Pass from only Mr Mime" has the same energy as "banning Speed Boost from Blaziken", "banning Fishious Rend from Dracovish", "banning Thousand Arrows from Zygarde-50%" and _literally countless_ other examples throughout history because there's always some way to "nerf a broken Pokemon to become more manageable". If this kind of specific ban were to be applied to Mr Mime, why shouldn't other Pokemon share this privilege? Rest assured that it won't end with just Mr Mime; *everyone* would suggest for their own complex bans to be applied to whatever Pokemon they want to remain in the meta and not be banned outright.
The Houndstone ban is a part of this; Smogon does not ban moves until they have proven to be broken on MORE THAN ONE user, but since Houndstone was literally the only mon available at the time, they could not go through with banning Respects and had to wait for other Last Respects users to be released (aka the Basculegions) so they can go ahead to ban the move as a whole. You may not like this system, but it has already proven effective at discerning which aspect of a Pokemon/move is actually broken. Take Cyclizar for example, who broke the meta with its fast Shed Tail + Regenerator combo so they banned Cyclizar. However, later Orthworm proved that it was Shed Tail itself that was enough of a problem even without Cyclizar's superior traits. Smogon's system of "widescale banning" is effective at identifying problematic elements of the meta instead of trying to "manually cherrypick" what is deemed to be broken or not.
@@breloommaster12 I don't need you to regurgitate stupid arbitrary decisions that they barely follow. Last respects was obviously broken there was no reason to wait on a pokemon that wasn't even in the game yet.
It is insane how much this mead fellow was willing to do to not play the game
he also got sand veil cacturne banned lol, that shit has made me want to punch my monitor on many ocassions
@@cryptooooooooo THAT WAS THE SAME GUY???
@@ck11032 yeah he's actually doing community service by bringing broken stuff to light
Enjoyed the little animations also great video
Mr. Mime is responsible for the team I use now. I built it to beat that team and it just beat almost everything else 😅
Another point in Mimes favor is that, if it becomes necessary, its perfectly capable of just spamming Psychic with all those boosts.
I also love how Cradily was usually the recipient of all of this as it had Suction Cups, so you couldn't Phase it, and it had natural healing with Giga Drain
octillery also
Some, dare I say, call him Mr. Crime
I miss baton pass. So many mons have it and no access to other pivot moves.
Mr. Crime is my favorite regional variant.
mr mime and iron mugulis will get along very well in jail
Things like this made me wish there was a way to have Baton Pass to be exclusively Dry Pass (no stats being passed) without a complex ban. However that's unfortunately not possible
Im so happy these comments arent filled with people talking about the pronunciation of baton pass lmao
Exploud and Electrode being punished for Mr Crime
I do wish Exploud hadn't been caught in the crossfire. I feel like they should have just banned the baton pass + soundproof combination.
This adds a whole new meaning to "the mead runneth free"
I've been rolling with Mr. Mime since Pokemon Red.
This is such a fun Pokemon with fun design lol.
Mr mime these stat boosts
Delicious gen 3 content. Are there any plans for chess Jimothy comeback content?
I noticed that Hypnosis was used a couple of time(5:01)(7:00). The accuracy on the move is atrocious(60%). There is no Wide Lens this generation to help boost the accuracy. If Hypnosis misses, the opponent will have a chance to break the Substitute.
I was scrolling matches on showdown
Mead is using a baton pass and sand attack set
He might get sand attack banned ngl
thank you for the lesson jimbo, I was wondering what the current rules were after I saw some mild baton passing in the tourney
Oooo I am here so early. Nice.
Why would you need to use baton pass to pivot if you're not interested in passing on stat buffs? Can't you just switch like normal? I thought the benefit of volt switch and U-turn was that they also deal damage
Even if U-turn did 1 damage, it would still be useful for gaining switch advantage on the opponent. You already see this in recent times, such as Tapu Koko favouring U-turn over Volt Switch just for the ability to pivot instead of opting for more damage.
Baton Pass being a 0 damage U-turn was just as useful; in fact it is sometimes MORE useful since it unconditionally escapes Pursuit unlike a faster U-turn which still gets caught by Pursuit
The idea is that if you dry pass on a fast mon, it's basically the same as a switch but it goes after a potential switch from your opponent. That way, you'd have an advantage against their switch-in, possibly making them switch again and giving you even more momentum.
@@Blaziken20052000thanks I think I understand now. Does that mean you'd get to see what they switched to before you choose your mon?
@@joefarrow1599 yes that is precisely it; the superior positioning you get is more than worth doing zero damage
@@joefarrow1599 You also get to see IF they clicked an attack. so even then you can also react by picking a better counter/resist. so no matter what they do, you will force a switch or a bad stay on the next round, meaning you can't go wrong if you know you have a good receiver, while they will ideally take at least as much chip as you do, if not much more. It's a free click in many situations and it can be devastating in a favorable rock-paper-scissors end game, even if your opponent plays perfectly.
Really cool topic. Would you be interested in covering the role that Scizor has had in competitive singles? One specific question I've always had is why Scizor is never seen in older competitive gens but ramped up in usage later on
Gen 3 it's an okay swords dance + baton pass user, gen 4 it gets technician bullet punch. The physical/special split was very kind to scizor.
Plus steel/bug has always been good but w fairy introduced steel is much, much better. Especially considering steel no longer resists dark and ghost since gen 6, so resisting dark is nice too post knock off buff/introduction of fantastic dark types gen 8/9. Tldr: technician and change to the type chart is why scizor is now usable.
getting technician bullet punch, u-turn, roost etc made it significantly better. it didn't have access to any of these tools in gen 2 and 3.
Such a goated outro
Pokémon: Baton Pass
Jimothy: Battin' Pauss
Everytime you find a good strategy some baby has to cry for the nerf
Just wait until the Future Paradox form of Mr.Mime, Iron Jester, finishes repairing his Time Machine with the help of his current Katoninan and Galarian forms of Mr.Mime in order to return to the Gen 3 OU and delete the baton pass restrictions in order to wreak havoc once again.
You should do a video on why Mew is banned in ADV!
The amount of baton pass teams I have to face in scarlet Wi-Fi battles is nuts
I dont understand. Why ban soundproof when Mr. Mime is the problem? Why does exploud also have to suffer ;_; Do people think a recipient that can counter play roar would be to strong? Then wheres all the octillery and cradely sweeper teams?
Whenever someone used this strat on me on showdown i just pulled out my primal grudon and used psyche up so that i could easily get past most things.
Baton pass seems like such a good pivot move. Even if you're not passing stat changes
it sure is! batoning when they switch skarm in lets you bring in mag for free, it also lets you escape being trapped by dug, etc. it's great for gaining tempo but at the cost of a move slot, which keeps it balanced
thanks alot this video really helped me with my lil thing i wrote about mr mime
Thank you, Mead.
The crimes of Mr. Mime?! More like the crimes of MEAD THE PASSING MENACE
Baton pass is the complicated example of the emu war
"We live in a meta" - Mr. Mime
My baton pass team on 2018 was Scizor, Magneton, Vaporeon, Zapdos, Mr Mime obv, and Marowak. Marowak destroy all meta with +2 atack, except Skarmory
Can't escape the Maplestory music
Very good video i need more stuff like this
I can't believe stand-up ADV OU citizen Poliwrath got involved in such criminal activities.
Seeing Metagross wearing a cop hat is the funniest and cutest thing to see
6:44 Belly Drum, screens, and sub?
Sounds like some G9 Stuff
I actually love this
I run Barrier on Mime so he doesn’t risk get ohko’d by T Tar, and other physical sweepers, I didn’t realize other people used Mime the same way.
I hope that in modern metagames, Baton Pass is unbanned as a Scouting Move, but the Stat passing is banned as a whole. Because it can allow Pokemon without a pivot move to scout into a safer teammate.
Baton Pass is just perfect for creating a force of destruction
If i got nickel for every weird gen 1 pink pokemon that completely break metagame i would get 2 nickels, which is not a lot but weird that happened twice
nah man went from groodon to ba'on pass
I feel like I'm the only person who has mr.mime as one of their top 10 favourite pokemon simply because of the silly strategies you can do in a playthrough and competitive.
Also he's just a lil goofy guy he kinda cute right?
There is quite a bit of comedy gold hidden in here. Mr Mime, the creepy clown, gets banned for his crimes in OU, only to be replaced by the notorious pedophile, Hypno. Sadly, you never mentioned why Octillery was the premier receiver during the era without the one statboost rule, you could have added another unapreciated, somewhat creepy Pokemon to the fellony list.
You would think this would make more people run Haze instead of Roar, but I guess that one has bad availability
It seems that Gengar is the only OU pokemon with haze and haze isn't part of its standard set (and there are a lot of moves listed). There are some UUBL pokemon too, still UUBL usually means unviable for OU.
Roar is probably more versatile than haze in general
Roar is far better because it also gets rid of substitute and allows you to accumulate spikes chip, among other benefits
Mr. Mime and Hypno, parteners in crime.