I went to the Harley dealer today. They had a 2022 Pan America for $15,000. It only had 4,000 miles on it. I was considering it until I started looking up information on the bike. Seems like they kind of suck. I'm out.
Thank you so much for doing this video I am at the exact stage you are. I'm dropping off Pan American at another dealer and picking up a Triumph Tiger 1200. I've just had an experience and thought I might share to help someone who is considering buying a Harley. I recently bought a Pan American at Barnes Harley. I have had nothing but problems with the bike. From the starter clutch dying, to the screen randomly turning off, to error codes non stop, to the bike leaving me stranded. When I approached Barnes Harley to see if they could help their proposed solution was to get rid of the bike at a loss. It is not their problem they don't make the bike just sell them. Ergo too bad you got stuck with a lemon. Then they pretended that they've never heard of these issues. Meanwhile, I took it to another dealer and was told that these issues are quite common, and some fixes are available but they won't just do a recall you have to prove that the problem exists. After owning a few Harleys this is not what I would expect being a long time customer and all. So please if you are considering buying a Harley Davidson, specifically a Pan America DON'T! Read the forums regarding these issues and google them you will see they are very common and NEVER deal with a dealership like Barnes who not only won't try to assist but flat out tells you too bad now you're stuck with our crap. If anyone wants to see the texts and the issues I have videos and pictures of everything. Learn from my misfortune and feel free to contact me for proof. Don't buy Harley and never deal with Barnes dealers. I know there are some die hard Harley fans heck I was one of them but this is the help I got so far and sadly you'll never know how a company will treat it's loyal customer but just make sure you know what you're getting into. Your hard earned money should be giving you headaches and definitely should piss you off. Just my 2 cents.
Hardly Driveables poor machines in almost every facet and customer service corresponds.Japanese and Euro bikes light years ahead and as a mechanical engineer recognise the design faults which are amateur and unacceptable. Ride a V2S multistrada.
I picked up my Pan American in June and have 8000 miles on the motorcycle. i have had no problems other than small fault lights but it never affected the rideability. It's been updated at all service intervals. It seems to me that that the techs are not really familiar with the motorcycle. Finding a good dealer is the secret. I've been across the country, and every dealer I noticed had different skill levels.
To me, fault lights are the biggest deal. It shows that the vehicle is still buggy and not finished yet or substandard and cant meet the minimum requirements or refinement to keep it within OBD limits. Amateurish.
my Pan American now has 12000 miles, and the faults were caused by a bad o2 sensor and a bad fuel pump. The rideability and performance were never an issue. Never left me anywhere.
The secret is doing all your own work. I've worked at 2 motorcycle shops, and I've seen a 3rd motorcycle shop where I bought my motorcycle and they installed my front wheel backwards when I bought a new Ninja in 2002. I decided after seeing how the motorcycle shops are run behind the scenes, and having worked at one large motorcycle dealer as a mechanic, that I will never trust a dealer with my engine. There is no way to know what they are actually doing, unless you watch them, and they won't let you anywhere near the actual work being done. What if they don't torque your clutch basket properly? What if they leave a bolt sitting in your engine? You should learn to do your own repairs, because on RUclips you can learn how to fix anything, and there is probably a "step by step" video of how do all the basic repairs you'd ever need to do. Resetting a code isn't worth going to the dealer for. Never let anyone change your oil under any circumstances. They could drop some metal filings in your engine by accident, by doing sloppy work, and that could take years of life off your engine. It's just not worth the risk of putting your life in someone else's hands, because it's really your life that is at stake with a motorcycle. The only thing you need to know about changing your oil. Buy 10-40T Motul 7100 oil only (it doesn't break down after 3,000 miles, shifts buttery smooth, and doesn't make any noise when your engine is glowing hot). Gently tighten your oil drain plug!
So I own a 2021 Pan America Special. I've ridden it 22,000 miles, many of those hard off road miles, with no issues. I also follow the forums closely. The bike is an excellent design and damn near indestructible. The problem, however, is the lack of required training on the bike among Harley technicians. Harley offers a TON of bike specific training on this model since it's so radically different from its other models. The problem is that it's up to the dealerships to determine who is qualified to do the final assembly at the dealerships and the routine maintenance and repairs. Many dealerships STILL don't accept that this bike REQUIRES all the additional specialized training offered by Harley for final assembly and service. In our forums, about 85% of owners have no major issues. But the 15% that do have horrible issues that should never occur. They are clearly from improper and untrained service and final assembly. I've always insisted on only having techs who have CMPLETED the Pan America specific training to work on my bike. I speak to the tech directly to confirm that. I will wait as long as necessary to schedule my service and updates with that tech, or will take my bike to another dealership that has a fully bike-specific trained tech. Not surprisingly, I've had no issues. I've even single tracked the beast and ridden through snow with it. But I know of plenty of people who had "battery" issues that were actually loose connections, failure of accessory charging that were wired connected in reverse polarity orientation, battery drainage issues that were failure to update the ECM (which is free), locked out suspensions from loose connections, and eroded coolant tubing that was caused by failure to trim the coolant tube to the correct length. None of these issues were design issues; they are just uniformed and poorly done finally assembly and/or maintenance. The only "bad part" issue was a batch of started gears that were too small, (which Harley has recalled and will replace for free) a weak hand rail on the first year model (also on recall/replacement) and the fact that the fuel pump tends to eventually clog and die. This has been an issue with the same fuel pump used across multiple bike brands, and seems to be a supply chain issue. Some people get 30,000 miles out of their fuel pump - some get 5,000 miles. As this problem has come into vogue relatively recently, owners are now adding fuel cleaner to their gas to keep the pump from gumming up. I'm personally at 22,000 miles and heard the pathognomonic high-pitched whine of the pump straining for the first time last week, which went almost completely away after a single treatment of sea foam fuel cleaner. I plan to run two more tanks with the Sea Foam, and just run a tank with Sea Foam once a quarter to keep the fuel pump clean. I'm also upgrading to a better fuel filter, since that's dirt cheap and can't hurt. It's actually a great bike IF and ONLY IF you buy if from a dealership where a FULLY bike-specific trained tech has done the final assembly and all the maintenance. That's it. My own fully Pan-America-specifically trained tech re-torqued all the exterior bolts with Loctite, shortened the radiator hose, checked and tightened (if necessary) all electrical connections, etc, etc., during the final dealership assembly prior to even selling me the bike. He only installs ECM updates when needed, and even then waits until the bugs are worked out to recommend them. He constantly goes to Milwaukee for more classes on this bike. Not surprisingly, I had a great experience with no issues. I've taken the bike repeatedly on long trip to remote areas with no concerns. And it's built extremely sturdily, as its gone over multiple time in rocky terrain with no damage at all to the bike except for a few minor scratches. But I do NOT let generic "Harley" techs touch the bike for anything, even something as small as changing the oil. (There's actually a special way oil is changed on this bike, and several people have found their oil level low because untrained techs did not use the technique specific for this bike. The Pan America has 18 direct engine parameter sensors with triple and quadruple redundancies and enough electronics to launch a shuttle. If Harley corporate could only restrict service of this model to fully bike-specifically trained techs throughout their franchised dealerships (which would also mean that dealerships without a Pan-America specifically trained tech would not be authorized to sell or service the bike) that would take care of 99% of issues some people have with their bikes.
Your comment is excellent. Other PA riders have also mentioned that differences in dealers causes issues but you further describe assembly by dealers. With that said, there's some early PAs out there for sale at low prices possibly due to issues caused by bad dealer assembly as you described. For those particular bikes do you believe there is some way to remedy the issues in those bikes like possibly dissembling part of the bikes? Or is it possible that those bikes have been ruined without remedy by bad assembly.
No fun buying a new machine and having so many issues. Great comment that you feel like Harleys R&D department - and keeping track of all the issues, like a pitbull. Congrats on the GSA and fingers crossed it will be headache free. Africa twin rider here.
I looked at the GS 1250. There are quite a few reliability issues with them. I was told by a mechanic and a salesman at the local BMW,triumph,ducati dealer that they see more Beemers come in for warranty repairs than the other bikes. Nice comfortable bikes, but they are bottom of the lists for warranty work. For a bike thats been in production for 40 years thats not good.
2:20 We did catch the issues (and many many more) in pre production engineering. Upper management and low level executives pushed it through to production anyway. None of us were happy about it.
This happens a lot. I was interested in the Sportster S with the 1250 Revolution engine - I think Harley should have rolled this engine out years ago to replace the V-Rod - now it's very late in the game for gas engines. Revolution is still critical for HD and I think a few years down the road it will be be a success. Thanks for your honest feedback. Too often companies hide negatives but when they are brought out in to the open it makes sense and actually gives me confidence they they acknowledge the issues and are working on it.
Hi Mr Green! Do you think the issues have been ironed out yet? From All the riding review I think this would be a great bike for me, but I’m very concerned about the issues raised. I’m a minister who loves riding, especially cross county, but can’t afford a lot of maintenance issues. My first impression is that this would be a great 4 corner+ ride. I’d be 70/30 road/dirt. (Maybe 60/40).
@@savagefrieze4675 I don't know whether its good or not these days. I'd imagine they have them working better. But I can't make a recommendation one way or the other.
I was only able to put 2k miles on it in the 3 weeks I had it before I put it in winter storage. After the 3rd software update I really didn't see any issues but the very rare starter whine. I guess we'll see next summer what happens, glad I have my little KLR as a backup in case something does go wrong. So far no regrets in trading in my M8 Road King and I know 2 other people who have no regrets as well with one of them with over 15k miles on it so far. Cheers, hope you have great luck with the BMW.
The rare starter whine is cause the motor stopped at top dead center. If you hit it a second time then it fires. That's cause the starter has re-positioned to allow it to crank. Lots of information about this.
Don't feel bad. I bought a first-gen Triumph Tiger Explorer in 2013. It has its issues as well. Eventually, Triumph sorted it out. The local dealer was mostly to blame as they botched the recall issue. I loved that bike but have a bitter taste for Triumph now. The Japanese manufacturers practice Kaizen. A continuous and incremental improvement of the Item or process. That is why they are so successful. Learn from your competition western manufacturers. We ate always trying to reinvent the wheel.
After owning numerous bike brands over the years (including BMW GSA, KTM, Ducati, etc.), I can tell you for a first-year model it seems to me the PA has had the "typical" amount of issues. As an example, the BMW 1200 GSA noted here has been plagued with issues many might not expect - a number requiring recalls (fork cap breakage, fuel pump leakage, gear box problems, final drive leakage, water pump leakage, a number of gearbox issues,...). Good on BMW for owning up and addressing most of these - but many times you are just trading issues. My opinion, but after riding the R1200 GSA and the HD PAS on multiple surface types I believe the PAS inspires more riding confidence overall.
The starter clutch gear assembly is a known problem on early pan americas. Call Harley customer support and get a reference number. Go to a Harley dealer that actually cares about the pan America { this a a key part, even told to me by a factory Harley demo guy} and have them order the updated part. They will replace at no cost even though it isn't a "recall",it came out to all Harley dealers the end of august 2022 as a service notice.I had the mechanic at the Harley dealer in Greeley Colorado where I live show me how it all works on another one he was doing on the lift. I even took photos of the parts and the engine with the side case removed. They also did the computer updates and fixed a leaking radiator hose, not installed correctly at the factory. Which I was told is a fairly common easily fixed problem.I paid nothing for all of the repairs.
@@BackDraftBikes It is not. Find a decent dealer, some Harley dealers hate the pan America because it isn't one of the 1950s technology of their other bikes. Plus,many dealers have only 1 tech thats received training on this bike. Call Harley customer service first off and tell them what you experienced. They were well aware of the problem.
My experience with Extended warranties is they are an insurance policy at a premium price. Like you, I expect a $20k HD Motorcycle to be reliable enough without needing an extra warranty. I have a 2018 FXLR and even the stupid stuff that breaks (kickstand, front brake switch, leaking oil pan) would have cost more than I paid for the warranty (I didn’t pay retail for the Xtended warranty). Thank you for sharing your experience with us and I hope they fix your bike to your satisfaction…
Great video. I own a Nightster and I have similar issues but after complaining to Harley Davidson and get the service manager at my dealership involved, many problems are getting fixed. I am convinced that Harley Davidson knew of these problems but rushed production to sell the bike and then figure out the problems. I just took my bike in to get the defective handlebar replaced. At 19 degrees and riding in frigid road conditions at 6,000 feet in elevation, I can sympathize with your latest complaint. Has the dealership told you that it takes 2 hours to replace the spark plugs. Your bike has four spark plugs, two of them are easy to get to, but the other two are very labor intensive. Harley now has their Screaming Eagle spark plugs available for this bike which have a longer lifespan. I love my Nightster, but like you the problems can be annoying.
Thank you for the video! I had horrible experiences with my HD PA standard and sold it this week. The worst thing what happened was the engine stopped while riding in a long tunnel. This bike (electronics) has tremendous problems. No go for me after riding it 8000 miles.
Yo, I am a fellow Vstormer here(650) version! The more I read reviews on other bikes, the more I feel very lucky to own and ride my Vstrom. I don't have to look up where the next dealership is if I go on a highway trip to another city. I only need an occasional gas station or Tim Hortons. Lol!! I think that people that buy Harleys and stick with them enjoy the challenge of trying to keep them running! They call it Harley culture!! I am not interested in that. I would rather just ride without having to worry about if the bike is going to leave me stranded because I left the city!! Take care!! 😁
Hey there! Great video. Got rid of my Harley due to QC issues as well. Glad you got the GS! Probably won’t buy another Harley… Loved the bike but couldn’t deal with worrying about it all the time. 🙄
I have the 2 year warranty on mine. I’m now in the second year of warranty and only have 2200 miles on it. It’s my only vehicle by the way. It’s literally non stop in the shop for different warranty issues. Mainly electric but it’s had the front cylinder replaced in the first 500 miles. And multiple wiring harness issues and codes before I hit 1k(which also tossed me into limp home mode). Then my quick shifter kept malfunctioning after my 1k service. Eventually it failed and popped codes. The quick shifter was on backwards. Now I keep getting key fobs is sing warnings while it’s in my pocket. Multiple times it can’t detect the key fob and leaves me stranded until it can finally detect it. The bypass code screen for when you lose the fob only pops up for like 1 second before it turns off. The push to talk for Bluetooth doesn’t work properly. And now I’m having major mechanical issues again that I can’t find the source of. I’m running out of warranty and I can’t even get to 3k miles on mine. As far as bike characteristics go… I feel that the suspension isn’t tuned properly and it doesn’t dampen well on the road. Additionally the motor feels like you have a big box of rocks in each cylinder. Feels and sounds like each cylinder is playing yatzee. Not a smooth bike at all. Atleast mine isn’t. That’s not even all the issues I’ve had. Just some major ones that stick out. Battery got swapped too because it couldn’t hold proper voltage and wouldn’t start many times within the first 1500miles. I’d stay clear of this bike entirely. Had so much potential. Brand new it was glorious. Engine was smooth, hauled ass, sounded great. But mine just fell apart.
Worst of all, they are trying to fight me that it’s a lemon😂 the corporation. Not the dealership. My dealership has been nothing but amazing and supportive.
I have almost 6000 miles on my Pan America. Knock on wood… no issues. Kinda seems like they are hit or miss. You either get a solid, reliable model, or a lemon. It’s unfortunate, but, so far, I love my Pan America!
I been to the HD outlet yesterday evening, with heart full of PAN America, top varient, then it crossed my mind to go check out for a sincere review, there you are...!!! Thanks a tonne, saved me and a couple of my buddies, we wanted to roll out 3 PAN ams the same day. Happy GS'ing brother 👍👍👍👍
I traded my Harley for a 2021 BMW R1250GS. I absolutely love it. Zero issues so far (5,000 miles). Mine is not the GSA, but it has every possible option and I've added the upper and lower crash bars. It gets confused as a GSA, but it is smaller and lighter. The 1250 shift-cam motor has gobs of low end grunt too. Not sure how your 1200 GSA will compare, but they are all good bikes.
Gs looks way better than Gsa in my opinion..& i envy you man..you have made great choice & its a dream bike for many of us..congrats & wish you many many happy miles with it,take care & ride safe..
My dealer recently bought back my 1st run Pan Am. 11k on the clock in 1 1/2 years but the constant issues that many of the Pan Am's have had.It was the special w/o the ARH but it would lower and sometimes stay in the low position, even after clearing the faults. The dash and the non-starting issues cost me some trips that I couldn't take it on. It would give me starting issues away from home when I couldn't have it on a charger for a few days and I was away from the bike, so I wasn't able to ride it for a charge. My heated grips only worked intermittently. Etc... Long story short, I went in the last time and told them about the issues and said I didn't want a bike I couldn't trust. It is marketed as an Adventure bike, after all. I was very happy with the buy back. I've bought three Harleys in three and a half years from my local dealer and I still have a 2017 Ultra Classic that I love with about 36K on the odometer. The dealer had a 2018 KTM Super Adventure R with a bit over 4K and I bought that from them so I'd have a decent ADV bike. It has just as many electrical farckles minus the ARH... which mine wasn't supposed to have anyway, so I'll see how it does.
Thanks M8, I was very serious about buying one after a test ride, here in oz, there are a lot of Pan Americas for sale with 1500-2500km, that raised some question for me. And now you have answered them. makes the CFMoto 800mt look really good at half the price.
it's a shame that this bike is so riddled with issues, because the bike its self is so comfy to sit on and the ergo's are incredible. Also the technology loaded into the bike is really awesome. Lemon Law should be covering you for everything, and this bike should have been bought back and dissolved.
So I’ve had some of the issues you’ve talked about but definitely all of the negative experience from multiple Harley dealerships. As far as I’m concerned I will be purchasing something different as soon as I can.
What a great video!! My wife had a 2020 HD 883 Iron and that bike was fine until it got cold, it had a lot of trouble starting when it was 20 degrees, I had a Honda NC700X and it never had any issues! I asked Harley about it and they said that I had to let it warm up we sold the bike and I will never own another HD ever! I have a 2018 Triumph Tiger 1200 XCA and I love it!!
I bought the first year model BMW R1100RS "oilhead" back in 94. I went through three transmissions. Fortunately BMW covered all under warranty. It sucks but it is a risk with all-new first year models even on high end bikes from reputable manufacturers.
I'd rethink that. They have corrected the launch firmware issues, and mine runs my buddy's 1250 gs right off the road. In fact he just ordered a black one. Dont kid yourself, the black forest motorad guys have plenty of issues as well, and they are located in Germany!
Thank you for the video. Definetely helped sway my decision on even test driving a pan america if its gonna give me those issues. Not what I'm looking for in an adventure bike. I"m kicking between Norden 901 and Triumph 1200 and the BMW 1250.
I found your video after hearing about my coworkers issues with her Harley experience. I was glad I bought my GS a month before Harley released the Pan American experience now.
I’ve brought one in England 2022 plate and it’s a dream to ride been on some pretty rough tracks in wales and no problems rode it non stop for 6-7 hours that day was brilliant, on 1600 miles now big thumbs up from me 👍👍
I'm glad I watched your videos. I was going to test ride a pan america this week but now I'm reconsidering. Seemed pretty good on paper and a bit cheaper than a equivalent equipped GSA. If I'm going to spend that much on a bike I don't want that many potential issues.
Not cheaper than a GSA anymore! Dealers in Cali are asking more for this bike than the GSA, totally relying on the blind loyalty to the bar and shield from many of their customers. Wake up riders!!! This bike is no where near as refined as the other offerings in this tech laiden , stacked motorcycle category. Do you really think a Pan Am is going to be a bike you can own and ride for 15 or 20 years? I'm going to a Harley demo day this Friday and I'll give the Pan Am a ride, I'm also going to ride a GSA and a new Rally Explorer on the same day. I can get the Honda AT, in top spec, with all the extras for 24500 OTD!!!!!!
@@BackDraftBikes I found a GSA, if only the recall would be completed. Waiting on a Brembo caliper. I decided to skip the Harley, seems to need some polishing. I don’t really like the radiator and cooler sitting lowest point to the ground either. Hopefully will join you on or off next week!
I have 4500 miles on mine and not a single issue you are describing. Hear me out... Try another dealer. This is a new bike and other than the online training dealerships have had on the model there is not a lot of technical expertise at many dealers because they simply haven't seen many bikes yet. There is a reason many BMW shops have techs that are savvy on the bike, they see them a lot; also not a good thing. As a former F800GSA owner who had his electronic rear suspension ripped out and replaced at 800 miles, I can tell you mechanical issues happen to every bike. Maybe switch to a shop with techs that are a bit more seasoned on the bike. What I am hearing is a shop that is offering excuses, not devising a plan for resolve them. That is very much a dealership issue, not a bike issue. Just my opinion.
As a former 1200GSA owner, now a HD PA owner, I can say that I like this guy have a lot of buyers remorse. I'm trying to get on with the bike and fix the things that are wrong with it, but you know when my $6K Royal Enfield Himalayan becomes my 'go to' bike, you know there's an issue. The HD fanboys are eating up this bike, but I'm certainly not in that category. I'm hoping that I can finally find peace with this bike, but if I don't in the next several weeks, it too will find itself replaced by another GS or GSA.
@@Oldwiseguy-59 this does not actually deactivate TC. It has a hardwired system which will always cut power if it senses rear wheel slip. Plenty of people have been reporting issues with this, and dozens of other problems.
I have my PA and just hit 5k miles on the bike, I went through 3 batteries, one wiring harness, one starter motor and a few softwares updates… Still having trouble with the bike…
Thank you for the review. This year, when I was upgrading my bike, I was considering the HD Pan America. However, after reading reviews like this one, I decided to stick with BMW. I bought a 2023 BMW R1250GS with most of the options. No problems - a great bike. BMW has had 40 years to refine and improve the formula. Dealing with the various error codes (mentioned in numerous posts by various riders) would drive me up the wall. A great review and I am sorry for your experiences with HD. I hope that it goes well with BMW.
I bought mine last September and have 500 miles on it so far. I'm having leaks and issues starting it. This looks like an ominous portent of things to come.
The starter making that weird noise is normal, it's just a protection clutch in the starter to prevent it from breaking if it tries to crank the engine when it's at maximum compression stroke on the engine.
I just bought a 2022 Pan Am and so far so good. Put 500 miles on it last weekend and no issue's. I will say I was not impressed with the set up from dealer when I picked it up last Decemeber. The handle bars were not adjusted and almost touching the tank. The clutch adjustment had no slack in it and the clutch slipped. The engine oil level was at the very bottom of the dip stick. With that being said I had Brian Gray perfromance set the bike up as it should have been from the dealer and it has performed as it should. I have installed an exhaust from A1 CYCLES and it sounds amzing a little loud but great sound. I'm really hoping that the 2022 is a better model then the 2021. If it is not I will be doing exactly what you did and be coming home with a BMW or maybe a KTM. Thanks for your great review and honesty.
My Pan America has been perfect, I have not had any of the issues you described. As for your tire wearing, that is a tire manufacture, not the Harley. You may have been running at low pressure. One thing I have noticed is the dealerships are having growing pains with this bike. It will take a while for the technicians to get around the learning curve. However, I do not care for the side stand or how it is mounted the the engine case. Beyond that I love my Pan America.
On a Pan Am page, there was a survey of who has and hadn't had problems with their bikes. Turns out the percentage was very small. This poor guy got a lemon. Perhaps the lemon law would have been the way for him to go. I would have pursued it for sure. But this is not typical of the bikes and they are selling very well.
That sucks and I think you have made the correct decision in the switch, guess I will skip the HD till it has had some further positive road time, my GS has had minor issues as they all do but you will now learn about a whole new cat, happy trails
That sucks to have problems like that! Your more patient than I am. I think you made a good choice getting away from the HD. None of them are perfect, I’ve owned more than a few ADV bikes. I recently went with a GS1250 myself. Great bike so far. Good luck and let us know what u think of your GS.
I live in Thailand and I owned a 2021 model Pan Am, I had lots of problems. Steering triple-tree replaced Stator (generator) replaced Rear rail replaced Suspension locked in high position a number of times. Bike would not start numerous times. Bike would go into limp mode Clutch broke and replaced twice Gears replaced Battery replaced Finally another steering problem. Owned the bike only for 9 months (3 months of which it was in the dealer). Sold it back to the dealer (lost a lot of money on it) and replaced it with a Heritage 114.
I recently bought a 22 model. Hit 920 miles and the front exhaust cam Sprocket came apart. Catastrophic failure. Thankfully Harley, of course, approved a new motor under warranty. We'll see if anything else happens.
Good vid. I live in the UK and I have yet to see the Harley adv on the road. I also ride the r1200GS LC. It’s the 2014 model. Can’t really think of anything I don’t like about it, except everyone else has one too. Such a confident machine. Yesterday the average fuel consumption was 76 mpg. That might not mean much over your side of the pond because your gallons are different. It is pretty astonishing! Never had a more fuel-efficient bike which is great because right now fuel prices are the highest ever seen in the UK.
I've never owned a Harley that didn't have issues, my 1st year Streetglide had serious safety/performance issues. I finally got so fed up with Harleys and bad service that after 13 years I went back to metrics and have been riding much happier.
I have a R1200GSA, identical to what you now have, with a couple mods to keep up with faster bikes. My wife asked me to try the HD PA, and I always said NO. I have a HD Road Kinng Special, which is what a HD should be.
Thank you very much. I was going to trade in my Anniversary Heritage for the Pan America but your problems have convinced me to move away from Harley. I too had Problems with the Heritage(1620 miles) that Harley refused to cover under Warranty.
THey have fixed all of the launch issues. Trust me motorad has the same issues. I'd go Honda or KTM for ADV way before a black forest machine. My 22 Pan has had zero issues. Never buy a launch edition and expect perfection.
Hi Pete very interesting video. I have owned my PAS here in the UK, having traded my 1200 GS, for a couple of months now but I have only done 600 miles on it. After just riding it for 27 miles it lost all power and had to be retrieved from the side of the road by my dealership. My dealership is excellent and soon had the issue resolved and they delivered it back to my home. Like you I did not want the extended warranty and there was no pressure from them to take one out. More on them later. This being my first ever Harley having ridden bikes for 50 yrs + I so wanted to like it. Initially I missed the low down torque of my GS but I compensated for that with the induction noise of the PAS in Sports mode. At my dealership some of the non riding PAS owners would cheekily call my bike a Honda but it was all in good fun, Some of them went even further and suggested I test rode a proper Harley but I was reluctant to do that for a long time. But only last Saturday walking around looking at the used bikes I spotted a 2014 Fat Boy which is immaculate , although older than my bike. Long story short I took it for a test ride and loved it. Its got so much more character in comparison to my PAS that I have decided to part exchange my bike to buy it. Just like you I would of brought another GS But given how good my dealership is and the fact that our H.O.G Chapter meet there weekly and I have formed strong friendships within the group the Fat Boy will do me fine. With regards to the PAS rather than speak badly of it I will just say that it did not suit my needs and in my opinion lacks Soul. Enjoy your new bike.
Thank you for the comment, I hear you. I was hoping for more out of the MoCo. So far I am loving the GSA. Maybe in a year or two I will see where HD went with this bike...ride safe mate!
Very honest reel. Sorry you are getting this headache. Good on you for sharing this. BMW GS is very refined. I believe these bikes are so troublesome because they are assembled here in modules to evade the tariffs The ones manufactured entirely in China/Taiwan are trouble free
Good luck and God bless you if you went to a BMW. I've had 6-7 GS's over the years as well as other models. I currently own 3 BMW's. It's the most high-maintenance and problem-prone of any brand I've owned. The 1200 water cooled bikes, even my new 1250, have currently pending recalls for driveshaft and transmission shaft issues. The one you got is a part of that recall so check to see if the recall has been done. Ironically, I also own 3-4 Harleys, one for 45 years. They've all been the most dependable, least maintenance brand I've owned. I don't have a Pan American but know several people who do and all of them have not experienced any problems. At least the issues you report seem only niggling to me but, still, you shouldn't have to worry about that stuff. Good luck!!!
My 2nd PAS is for sale, but it will never sell. First PAS STB. Not a word from Bull Run Harley since they swapped it out for one that wouldn’t start at pickup. Don’t trust it. Potential buyers ask why I’m selling it. I say because there are big problems. I also say, I wouldn’t buy it if I were you. So it sits and collects dust while I ride my other ADV bike.
I had a pan america for a loan bike for 1 week. It had weird issues trying to start. You'd tap the one touch and it would crank once but not fire. I thought it was the battery so I had a charger and charged it. Didn't change anything then I went to return it and get my bike and it had a n exclamation mark in a triangle in the mode selection. Apart from this issue it was an amazing bike to ride. Heated grips, wonderful power and handling. I would really love to own one and I'm sure they will come out with a fix
Bought a 2022 Pan America Special: 1). Dies randomly 2). Difficulty starting. 3). Improperly grounded (according to dealer mech). 4). Bosch connectors not properly seated. 5). Replaced ECM 6). Replaced head gasket. 7). Replaced front piston (was getting coolant in engine). 8). Currently replacing voltage regulator ( still waiting after 10 days) Yep.....as much of a fan I was about the Pan America, my experience has been trash. Almost exactly 5,000 miles on this bike. Trying to claim a Lemon Law on the bike. Bike, plus T,T&L, plus paniers and top case, upgraded skid plate, added auxiliary headlights, highway pegs and added auxiliary stop light....right at $30,000. Dealership in Bedford, Texas, where I bought the bike, offered me $12,000 for trade in. 😂. Yep....seeking legal counsel. Wish me luck!
Wow I have been looking at one at the local dealer, was thinking of going back up there and getting one today, decided to check U Tube on reliability on the Pan America, I see many people with problems. So, I am not going to get the PA I have been looking at for a couple of weeks. I did see many used ones with low milage at the dealer, that my was first warning of possible problems. Thanks for saving me a lot of $$
Hello ! One of my subscribers recommended that I watch this video.... i have had very similar issues, actually going to the shop again tomorrow....only 4000 kms. did you find the issue on the PA, water in the air box ? ? rusted filter ? only 4000 kms ? Sorry to hear you had all the issues
Yes I did. It is indicative on the position of the filter and the was water comes up off the front tire. I went with a K/N that I could clean easier. Still not easy with the removal of the tank that had zero thought into trailside repairs///
I had to get rid of mine after just 1700 kilometres as it kept breaking down and I couldn’t ever ride the damned thing because it was always in for warranty repairs. The new Harleys are junk.
As a HD owner of the past I feel your pain. I think HD makes more money in service & parts than bikes sales , unless you finance you're bike through them, then they got you on their hook!
I have a 2013 Yamaha that I bought in early 2013. It now has close to 67,000 miles on it and the only thing that's given me trouble is the cruise control cancel switch in the front brake lever, and right as it started acting up I received a letter in the mail from Yamaha of North America about a recall for the same problem. Yamaha fixed it for free... That's the difference between a company that's dedicated to selling quality and one that's dedicated to taking your money. Harley Davidson should be a marketing company, because that's what they're really good at.
Yamaha Tracer 900; First ride...80mph, the high pressure fuel blew out of the tank,showered the whole bike in fuel, luckily it didn't ignite! Sump bolts not torqued up,missed at service,leaking oil! Rear axle nut not torqued! Tracer 700; No ABS...connection loose 3mth wait for 1st service, did it myself, put in Motul full synthetic, told Yamaha NOT to drain oil or change K+N...they did both,replaced with Yamalube(Citgo,a Venezuelan oil,'Shitgo'),bike then wouldn't drop gears at the lights without the clutch being used, they literally ruined my engine! Motul has 160yrs of technology! I got rid of that machine and replaced it with a same model from a salvage yard, a better bike!
You will absolutely love the BMW! They take a bit of getting used to as to the shakes and such but it's just a fun bike. I have a 05 R1200GS ( and oldie) and out of all the bikes I have owned in my life this is my favorite. It doesn't do it all but what it does do it does it well. I have actually never ridden a GS other than mine so even I can't say the WC bikes are better or anything. I will also say that my bike was a rental bike in Denver and has a little over 107000 miles on her. I've put about 25k on the bike in the just shy of 3 years of ownership. Should easily see 200k+! And then do I sell the bike? Hell no. I slap a used engine in it if all the rest is still good. Am I gonna say they are without maintenance? Hell no there not. But they have character. My wife and I moto camp here in Colorado and surrounding states. I actually tow a trailer with my GS and it loves it. Plenty of power and torque. A few maintenance issues due to the mileage but with a little help the bike really isn't all that tough to work on. Now my engine only goes from 05 to 09. Past that it's different heads. I find my years reasonably simple to work on. Simple is better in the world of ADV. Unless you consider that urban trek across town to your favorite coffee shop your daily adventure. Oh and with that being said I just wanted to say that people kinda say that the 05 and 06 years are the worst. And my 05 is super early production month so my bike should be a huge POS right? I have all the factory BMW paperwork and there's nothing major there. But over all unless I was going to buy a regular dirt bike I probably would not really consider a Japanese bike. And to be honest with you about the Pan America is it looks like a catfish. Sorry has some neat features I guess but you did a great job explaining to me why there are so many of these coming up for sale online. Ride safe and enjoy that BMW!
And there is something to looking like every other GS guy on the dirt. My 22 pan runs circles on my buddys gs. Maintenance you say. Yes no one make it any more complicated than over engineered black forest motorad engineers. Worst cars on the planet, bikes are much better but Ill take the V twin 13.1 self adjusting valves over the wierd balanced air head motor.
I was considering replacing my old 1990 electra glide with a Pan America. I think I'll wait until they get their act together. People have more problems with these things than I've had in 34 years and 75,000 miles on my electra glide. Such a shame because I really like them.
There are bikes made on a Monday or a Friday. Yours was a Saturday 😅Don't feel bad I have a friend who is on his second triumph adventure bike. First one was a lemon. Bad ecm the works. Second one has issues too. They spend more time at the dealership than with him. I'm talking months at a time.
Great review. I also watched your review of the new Sporty. I have owned Harley's for over 20 yrs and the service I received at three different dealerships in two different states has turned me off the the Brand---So I am not at all surprised with your experience with Laconia Harley-Davidson. This is why I am now an Indian Motorcycle customer. Coming up on my 5K mile service on my 2022 Indian FTR-S and have experienced none of the issues I saw you have had with your PanAm or that my riding buddy has seen with his brand new 2021 Sportster-S. My bike is a daily rider, to include riding at 5am in temps in the teens; no cold start issues on my 2022 FTR-S. Once again, great review and hope your BMW proves a better two-wheel experience for you.
Cant blame you really I would have walked at hour 2 waiting for the battery. I wish Harley would crack down on these predatory dealers it just ruins the whole experience. First dealer I went to was so disgusting I walked out much to there surprise. When they asked why I was leaving I just said Im 52 ive dealt with scumbags before its amazing in 2022 its still happening . Went to another dealer who was great no BS were MSRP take it or leave it. Deal was done in 15 mins and everyone was happy, big difference dealing with a professional shop.
Think you made the right choice. While I might start with something smaller for off-road think I'll go with the GSA. They're not problem free either but overall seems to be a better bike.
Thank you for the video. I was between the AFRICAN TWIN, and the Pan. This video really helped me decide. With the limited time I have to ride anyway I don’t want to spend that time riding to the dealer.
I have an older BMW bike, I put about 14k miles on it annually and do most of the routine maintenance myself. Surprisingly, the bike has been more reliable than my Ford vehicle. I’ll definitely be getting another BMW motorcycle in the future
Newer ones are much less reliable than the old air-oil cooled, they have lots of problems with the electronic suspension, engine control, gearbox and quickshifters.
Wow, i had the ame terrible experience at HD Yuba City with buying my 2022 Pan America, will never buy another from that place. But I love my Pan America, the road settings on off road plus with TC manually placed off gives me plenty of power as long as i am abouve 4k rom’s. Best of luck with your BMW, they are great bikes. But I am happy with my choice thus far
I think I'll keep my 2017 GS now. Looking at cycle Cycle trader there seems to be a lot of low mileage PA's for sale. Wonder why. I do applaud Harley for making the effort. I've owned a few harleys, the last one being an 04 Ultra Classic. That bike had three rear brake failures (it was an unseated o-ring. Dealer took care of it and even picked it up). The Harley buying experience leaves a lot to be desired. It a horrible "my way or the highway" experience. Shitty attitude and pressure. The first time I looked at the PA they wanted 26K with no bags or anything and wanted a deposit to test ride it. BMW will pressure you to test ride their bikes. Of course there aren't as many dealers and parts can be pricey. At this point HD prices are beyond ridiculous. No wonder you can finance one for up to 94 months. You'd really take a bath over that. My GS has all the features the new bikes have, I just don't have the digital console. Then again, I prefer analog gauges. I rode a BMW and that completely changed my mind. I did have issues with an 08 R1200RT. The bike would shut off at speed. Yes I did have a BMW problem once. The dealer played it off as a fluke or said I wasn't riding the bike properly, it would always restart. Knock on wood the GS has been flawless. I also own an Interceptor 650 for general commuting.
I still want one. Nothing wrong with the R1200GSA though.. solid bike. I don't buy the "first generation" excuse. They were developing the Pan America for three years before it finally got to dealers. Plenty of time to work out issues. But I still want one. Waiting to see if anything changes for 2022.
Hate hearing this. I'm a Mainer (Lovell) and after not riding for 45 years, I bought a new HD Sport Glide this past May. Me? A Harley? After all those years bashing them? It was an impulse buy. Of all things, my wife encouraged me to get it! Well alrighty then! Anyway, I've been really impressed with this particular bike. I knew what I was getting. What surprised me most was how much I love forward controls! This bike fits me like a glove. No complaints. However, when I looked over a nice green PA I was intrigued. I grew up on dirt bikes. I'm 66 but the idea of a nice dual purpose ADV bike appeals to me. Maine roads. Nuff said. I've been thinking the past few weeks that maybe a PA would be worth considering trading the SG in. I've felt the GS was always tad too intimidating. The PA's active suspension features are pretty slick. I too tend to think this might be a dealer issue. If it were me I'd go somewhere else. I think it'd be a shame to let it go without giving it a try. For all intents these are first gen bikes. Bound to be issues. The somewhat cheap windshield setup for one. But.... fixable stuff. A pain? Sure. Hoping for best resolution for you.
Hello neighbor! I love Kezar Lake. Good fishing! I wouldn’t go with the PA yet, way to many issues to sort out yet. You should look at the other videos on the channel, you may see a few familiar sites. I did the four corners and filmed it last year, search ‘fringes of Maine’ and you should find it. Hope to see you soon! Pete
New anything whether it's bikes, or cars sometimes have bugs. But imo HD should stick to their bread and butter. I would have got a bmw gs 1300 but that's just me. I have a 08 Streetglide which is pretty simple. Not a ton of crazy electronics. Never ever had any issues. Vehicles now days have wayyyy too much electronic b.s Ride on. Hope u have better luck going forward!
That is how free markets work, if the product is defective, and can't be fixed, they should refund you under lemon laws, they vary from state to state, the bmw was one of My choices, but I saved over $5000 buying My 2022 Pan America, and I have not had any trouble in the first 7000 miles, this is My first Harley, good luck and happy trails to You Sir.
Wow, was literally going to buy one this week and your video popped up, thanks a heap. Feel sorry for the riders that have bought these and are going to actually use them for adventure touring, I'd be concerned about getting stuck in outback Australia for some stupid electronic fault.
Wow! Thanks for this video!. I was seriously going to buy one in a week or two!!. Not now!. I'm going to my BMW dealer this week!.. Bet that HD dealer didn't even give a crap, I know my HD dealer is awfull too with several problems with my Brand new 22 Road King with less than 900 miles, And they say there's nothing wrong either!!. HA!
Wow was not expecting that. I wanted to buy the PanAM when it came out, but the voice of reason “wife” said you should wait a year. Smart lady. As these bikes get more off road use as they are intended the proof will be in the pudding.
Total garbage that as soon as you take it off road with TC disabled it starts throwing codes. Corp says "Oh. You were taking it off road. Yes." ??? This is an ADV bike, no?
Great video, I don't know what HD are doing, seems like they've lost the plot!! Cant fault your final choice, the BMW GSA 1200/1250 are superb bikes, had 3 of them, never let me down.
My first alarm bell would have gone off when they said you would regret not taking out extended warranty. There’s obviously a reason for that, you need it, as you found out. Smart move buying a BMW they make nice bikes. All the best for your riding future.
Thanks for your review. I was hoping that the Pan America would be a better bike. I’m not sure I want to have to experience any of the issues you pointed out. I will probably just find a great BMW to upgrade from my current V-Strom 650. I really like the adv riding position / style. So it have a good mix between ADV and touring with my Goldwing being my second bike.
I have a 2020 DCT Tour wing and am looking for an adventure bike also but I've got enough technology on my Wing to choke a horse. I've decided on the Tenere 700 ( if I can ever find one!) My feeling is the electronics and all the technology are cool to play with, but just don't mesh with the terrain and environment of off roading. JMHO
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I went to the Harley dealer today. They had a 2022 Pan America for $15,000. It only had 4,000 miles on it. I was considering it until I started looking up information on the bike. Seems like they kind of suck. I'm out.
Thank you so much for doing this video I am at the exact stage you are. I'm dropping off Pan American at another dealer and picking up a Triumph Tiger 1200. I've just had an experience and thought I might share to help someone who is considering buying a Harley. I recently bought a Pan American at Barnes Harley. I have had nothing but problems with the bike. From the starter clutch dying, to the screen randomly turning off, to error codes non stop, to the bike leaving me stranded. When I approached Barnes Harley to see if they could help their proposed solution was to get rid of the bike at a loss. It is not their problem they don't make the bike just sell them. Ergo too bad you got stuck with a lemon. Then they pretended that they've never heard of these issues. Meanwhile, I took it to another dealer and was told that these issues are quite common, and some fixes are available but they won't just do a recall you have to prove that the problem exists. After owning a few Harleys this is not what I would expect being a long time customer and all. So please if you are considering buying a Harley Davidson, specifically a Pan America DON'T! Read the forums regarding these issues and google them you will see they are very common and NEVER deal with a dealership like Barnes who not only won't try to assist but flat out tells you too bad now you're stuck with our crap. If anyone wants to see the texts and the issues I have videos and pictures of everything. Learn from my misfortune and feel free to contact me for proof.
Don't buy Harley and never deal with Barnes dealers. I know there are some die hard Harley fans heck I was one of them but this is the help I got so far and sadly you'll never know how a company will treat it's loyal customer but just make sure you know what you're getting into. Your hard earned money should be giving you headaches and definitely should piss you off. Just my 2 cents.
Which Burns dealership were you dealing with? I live in Kamloops.
I own a harley and I think you have made the right decision to part with the pan america...you were way more patient than I would have been
I am loving the BMW
Hardly Driveables poor machines in almost every facet and customer service corresponds.Japanese and Euro bikes light years ahead and as a mechanical engineer recognise the design faults which are amateur and unacceptable. Ride a V2S multistrada.
I picked up my Pan American in June and have 8000 miles on the motorcycle.
i have had no problems other than small fault lights but it never affected the rideability.
It's been updated at all service intervals.
It seems to me that that the techs are not really familiar with the motorcycle.
Finding a good dealer is the secret. I've been across the country, and every dealer I noticed had different skill levels.
To me, fault lights are the biggest deal. It shows that the vehicle is still buggy and not finished yet or substandard and cant meet the minimum requirements or refinement to keep it within OBD limits. Amateurish.
I agree. I expected and had a few gremlins by my dealer had good techs who knew what they were doing. I have had minimal issues.
my Pan American now has 12000 miles, and the faults were caused by a bad o2 sensor and a bad fuel pump. The rideability and performance were never an issue. Never left me anywhere.
The secret is doing all your own work. I've worked at 2 motorcycle shops, and I've seen a 3rd motorcycle shop where I bought my motorcycle and they installed my front wheel backwards when I bought a new Ninja in 2002. I decided after seeing how the motorcycle shops are run behind the scenes, and having worked at one large motorcycle dealer as a mechanic, that I will never trust a dealer with my engine. There is no way to know what they are actually doing, unless you watch them, and they won't let you anywhere near the actual work being done. What if they don't torque your clutch basket properly? What if they leave a bolt sitting in your engine? You should learn to do your own repairs, because on RUclips you can learn how to fix anything, and there is probably a "step by step" video of how do all the basic repairs you'd ever need to do. Resetting a code isn't worth going to the dealer for. Never let anyone change your oil under any circumstances. They could drop some metal filings in your engine by accident, by doing sloppy work, and that could take years of life off your engine. It's just not worth the risk of putting your life in someone else's hands, because it's really your life that is at stake with a motorcycle. The only thing you need to know about changing your oil. Buy 10-40T Motul 7100 oil only (it doesn't break down after 3,000 miles, shifts buttery smooth, and doesn't make any noise when your engine is glowing hot). Gently tighten your oil drain plug!
So I own a 2021 Pan America Special. I've ridden it 22,000 miles, many of those hard off road miles, with no issues. I also follow the forums closely. The bike is an excellent design and damn near indestructible. The problem, however, is the lack of required training on the bike among Harley technicians. Harley offers a TON of bike specific training on this model since it's so radically different from its other models. The problem is that it's up to the dealerships to determine who is qualified to do the final assembly at the dealerships and the routine maintenance and repairs. Many dealerships STILL don't accept that this bike REQUIRES all the additional specialized training offered by Harley for final assembly and service. In our forums, about 85% of owners have no major issues. But the 15% that do have horrible issues that should never occur. They are clearly from improper and untrained service and final assembly. I've always insisted on only having techs who have CMPLETED the Pan America specific training to work on my bike. I speak to the tech directly to confirm that. I will wait as long as necessary to schedule my service and updates with that tech, or will take my bike to another dealership that has a fully bike-specific trained tech. Not surprisingly, I've had no issues. I've even single tracked the beast and ridden through snow with it. But I know of plenty of people who had "battery" issues that were actually loose connections, failure of accessory charging that were wired connected in reverse polarity orientation, battery drainage issues that were failure to update the ECM (which is free), locked out suspensions from loose connections, and eroded coolant tubing that was caused by failure to trim the coolant tube to the correct length. None of these issues were design issues; they are just uniformed and poorly done finally assembly and/or maintenance. The only "bad part" issue was a batch of started gears that were too small, (which Harley has recalled and will replace for free) a weak hand rail on the first year model (also on recall/replacement) and the fact that the fuel pump tends to eventually clog and die. This has been an issue with the same fuel pump used across multiple bike brands, and seems to be a supply chain issue. Some people get 30,000 miles out of their fuel pump - some get 5,000 miles. As this problem has come into vogue relatively recently, owners are now adding fuel cleaner to their gas to keep the pump from gumming up. I'm personally at 22,000 miles and heard the pathognomonic high-pitched whine of the pump straining for the first time last week, which went almost completely away after a single treatment of sea foam fuel cleaner. I plan to run two more tanks with the Sea Foam, and just run a tank with Sea Foam once a quarter to keep the fuel pump clean. I'm also upgrading to a better fuel filter, since that's dirt cheap and can't hurt.
It's actually a great bike IF and ONLY IF you buy if from a dealership where a FULLY bike-specific trained tech has done the final assembly and all the maintenance. That's it. My own fully Pan-America-specifically trained tech re-torqued all the exterior bolts with Loctite, shortened the radiator hose, checked and tightened (if necessary) all electrical connections, etc, etc., during the final dealership assembly prior to even selling me the bike. He only installs ECM updates when needed, and even then waits until the bugs are worked out to recommend them. He constantly goes to Milwaukee for more classes on this bike. Not surprisingly, I had a great experience with no issues. I've taken the bike repeatedly on long trip to remote areas with no concerns. And it's built extremely sturdily, as its gone over multiple time in rocky terrain with no damage at all to the bike except for a few minor scratches. But I do NOT let generic "Harley" techs touch the bike for anything, even something as small as changing the oil. (There's actually a special way oil is changed on this bike, and several people have found their oil level low because untrained techs did not use the technique specific for this bike. The Pan America has 18 direct engine parameter sensors with triple and quadruple redundancies and enough electronics to launch a shuttle. If Harley corporate could only restrict service of this model to fully bike-specifically trained techs throughout their franchised dealerships (which would also mean that dealerships without a Pan-America specifically trained tech would not be authorized to sell or service the bike) that would take care of 99% of issues some people have with their bikes.
Your comment is excellent. Other PA riders have also mentioned that differences in dealers causes issues but you further describe assembly by dealers. With that said, there's some early PAs out there for sale at low prices possibly due to issues caused by bad dealer assembly as you described. For those particular bikes do you believe there is some way to remedy the issues in those bikes like possibly dissembling part of the bikes? Or is it possible that those bikes have been ruined without remedy by bad assembly.
No fun buying a new machine and having so many issues. Great comment that you feel like Harleys R&D department - and keeping track of all the issues, like a pitbull. Congrats on the GSA and fingers crossed it will be headache free. Africa twin rider here.
DCT or manual?
I looked at the GS 1250. There are quite a few reliability issues with them. I was told by a mechanic and a salesman at the local BMW,triumph,ducati dealer that they see more Beemers come in for warranty repairs than the other bikes. Nice comfortable bikes, but they are bottom of the lists for warranty work. For a bike thats been in production for 40 years thats not good.
2:20 We did catch the issues (and many many more) in pre production engineering. Upper management and low level executives pushed it through to production anyway. None of us were happy about it.
Hi Mr green, thanks for your comment and honesty. You should create a 2023 motorcycle and sale it. I would consider purchasing 1 motorcycle. Thanks.
This happens a lot. I was interested in the Sportster S with the 1250 Revolution engine - I think Harley should have rolled this engine out years ago to replace the V-Rod - now it's very late in the game for gas engines. Revolution is still critical for HD and I think a few years down the road it will be be a success. Thanks for your honest feedback. Too often companies hide negatives but when they are brought out in to the open it makes sense and actually gives me confidence they they acknowledge the issues and are working on it.
Hi Mr Green! Do you think the issues have been ironed out yet?
From All the riding review I think this would be a great bike for me, but I’m very concerned about the issues raised. I’m a minister who loves riding, especially cross county, but can’t afford a lot of maintenance issues. My first impression is that this would be a great 4 corner+ ride. I’d be 70/30 road/dirt. (Maybe 60/40).
@@savagefrieze4675 I don't know whether its good or not these days. I'd imagine they have them working better. But I can't make a recommendation one way or the other.
@@kylegreen378 thank you Mr. Green. It would be really great to do long distance riding and off road riding on an American made bike.
I was only able to put 2k miles on it in the 3 weeks I had it before I put it in winter storage. After the 3rd software update I really didn't see any issues but the very rare starter whine. I guess we'll see next summer what happens, glad I have my little KLR as a backup in case something does go wrong. So far no regrets in trading in my M8 Road King and I know 2 other people who have no regrets as well with one of them with over 15k miles on it so far. Cheers, hope you have great luck with the BMW.
The rare starter whine is cause the motor stopped at top dead center. If you hit it a second time then it fires. That's cause the starter has re-positioned to allow it to crank. Lots of information about this.
Not a problem with my 2023 yet. Absolutely love it.
2024 be even better, bigger generator, 330amp battery, radiator hose clamp, etc
Don't feel bad. I bought a first-gen Triumph Tiger Explorer in 2013. It has its issues as well. Eventually, Triumph sorted it out. The local dealer was mostly to blame as they botched the recall issue. I loved that bike but have a bitter taste for Triumph now. The Japanese manufacturers practice Kaizen. A continuous and incremental improvement of the Item or process. That is why they are so successful. Learn from your competition western manufacturers. We ate always trying to reinvent the wheel.
After owning numerous bike brands over the years (including BMW GSA, KTM, Ducati, etc.), I can tell you for a first-year model it seems to me the PA has had the "typical" amount of issues. As an example, the BMW 1200 GSA noted here has been plagued with issues many might not expect - a number requiring recalls (fork cap breakage, fuel pump leakage, gear box problems, final drive leakage, water pump leakage, a number of gearbox issues,...). Good on BMW for owning up and addressing most of these - but many times you are just trading issues. My opinion, but after riding the R1200 GSA and the HD PAS on multiple surface types I believe the PAS inspires more riding confidence overall.
The starter clutch gear assembly is a known problem on early pan americas. Call Harley customer support and get a reference number. Go to a Harley dealer that actually cares about the pan America { this a a key part, even told to me by a factory Harley demo guy} and have them order the updated part. They will replace at no cost even though it isn't a "recall",it came out to all Harley dealers the end of august 2022 as a service notice.I had the mechanic at the Harley dealer in Greeley Colorado where I live show me how it all works on another one he was doing on the lift. I even took photos of the parts and the engine with the side case removed. They also did the computer updates and fixed a leaking radiator hose, not installed correctly at the factory. Which I was told is a fairly common easily fixed problem.I paid nothing for all of the repairs.
I gave up, they said it was "normal"
@@BackDraftBikes It is not. Find a decent dealer, some Harley dealers hate the pan America because it isn't one of the 1950s technology of their other bikes. Plus,many dealers have only 1 tech thats received training on this bike. Call Harley customer service first off and tell them what you experienced. They were well aware of the problem.
My experience with Extended warranties is they are an insurance policy at a premium price. Like you, I expect a $20k HD Motorcycle to be reliable enough without needing an extra warranty. I have a 2018 FXLR and even the stupid stuff that breaks (kickstand, front brake switch, leaking oil pan) would have cost more than I paid for the warranty (I didn’t pay retail for the Xtended warranty). Thank you for sharing your experience with us and I hope they fix your bike to your satisfaction…
Great video. I own a Nightster and I have similar issues but after complaining to Harley Davidson and get the service manager at my dealership involved, many problems are getting fixed. I am convinced that Harley Davidson knew of these problems but rushed production to sell the bike and then figure out the problems. I just took my bike in to get the defective handlebar replaced. At 19 degrees and riding in frigid road conditions at 6,000 feet in elevation, I can sympathize with your latest complaint. Has the dealership told you that it takes 2 hours to replace the spark plugs. Your bike has four spark plugs, two of them are easy to get to, but the other two are very labor intensive. Harley now has their Screaming Eagle spark plugs available for this bike which have a longer lifespan. I love my Nightster, but like you the problems can be annoying.
agree
Thank you for the video! I had horrible experiences with my HD PA standard and sold it this week.
The worst thing what happened was the engine stopped while riding in a long tunnel. This bike (electronics) has tremendous problems. No go for me after riding it 8000 miles.
Thank you for the info as I was considering getting one. Currently ride a Vstrom 1000 with almost 30k miles with no issues.
I'm looking at a V-Strom 800DE. They're great bikes and very reliable.
Yo, I am a fellow Vstormer here(650) version! The more I read reviews on other bikes, the more I feel very lucky to own and ride my Vstrom. I don't have to look up where the next dealership is if I go on a highway trip to another city. I only need an occasional gas station or Tim Hortons. Lol!!
I think that people that buy Harleys and stick with them enjoy the challenge of trying to keep them running! They call it Harley culture!! I am not interested in that. I would rather just ride without having to worry about if the bike is going to leave me stranded because I left the city!! Take care!! 😁
Hey there! Great video. Got rid of my Harley due to QC issues as well. Glad you got the GS! Probably won’t buy another Harley… Loved the bike but couldn’t deal with worrying about it all the time. 🙄
SAME here
My Pan Am Special is just fine so far. Sorry you had a different experience.
I have the 2 year warranty on mine. I’m now in the second year of warranty and only have 2200 miles on it. It’s my only vehicle by the way. It’s literally non stop in the shop for different warranty issues. Mainly electric but it’s had the front cylinder replaced in the first 500 miles. And multiple wiring harness issues and codes before I hit 1k(which also tossed me into limp home mode). Then my quick shifter kept malfunctioning after my 1k service. Eventually it failed and popped codes. The quick shifter was on backwards.
Now I keep getting key fobs is sing warnings while it’s in my pocket. Multiple times it can’t detect the key fob and leaves me stranded until it can finally detect it. The bypass code screen for when you lose the fob only pops up for like 1 second before it turns off.
The push to talk for Bluetooth doesn’t work properly. And now I’m having major mechanical issues again that I can’t find the source of.
I’m running out of warranty and I can’t even get to 3k miles on mine.
As far as bike characteristics go… I feel that the suspension isn’t tuned properly and it doesn’t dampen well on the road. Additionally the motor feels like you have a big box of rocks in each cylinder. Feels and sounds like each cylinder is playing yatzee. Not a smooth bike at all. Atleast mine isn’t.
That’s not even all the issues I’ve had. Just some major ones that stick out. Battery got swapped too because it couldn’t hold proper voltage and wouldn’t start many times within the first 1500miles.
I’d stay clear of this bike entirely. Had so much potential.
Brand new it was glorious. Engine was smooth, hauled ass, sounded great. But mine just fell apart.
Worst of all, they are trying to fight me that it’s a lemon😂 the corporation. Not the dealership. My dealership has been nothing but amazing and supportive.
I am sorry, I feel your pain.
I have almost 6000 miles on my Pan America. Knock on wood… no issues. Kinda seems like they are hit or miss. You either get a solid, reliable model, or a lemon. It’s unfortunate, but, so far, I love my Pan America!
Lockdown bikes...speak to Aprilia 😂
yes sir i was thinking about the H>D>P but like you I am going to GO BMW GS 1250.
I been to the HD outlet yesterday evening, with heart full of PAN America, top varient, then it crossed my mind to go check out for a sincere review, there you are...!!! Thanks a tonne, saved me and a couple of my buddies, we wanted to roll out 3 PAN ams the same day. Happy GS'ing brother 👍👍👍👍
Thank you bro! I love it!
I traded my Harley for a 2021 BMW R1250GS. I absolutely love it. Zero issues so far (5,000 miles). Mine is not the GSA, but it has every possible option and I've added the upper and lower crash bars. It gets confused as a GSA, but it is smaller and lighter. The 1250 shift-cam motor has gobs of low end grunt too. Not sure how your 1200 GSA will compare, but they are all good bikes.
Gs looks way better than Gsa in my opinion..& i envy you man..you have made great choice & its a dream bike for many of us..congrats & wish you many many happy miles with it,take care & ride safe..
My dealer recently bought back my 1st run Pan Am. 11k on the clock in 1 1/2 years but the constant issues that many of the Pan Am's have had.It was the special w/o the ARH but it would lower and sometimes stay in the low position, even after clearing the faults. The dash and the non-starting issues cost me some trips that I couldn't take it on. It would give me starting issues away from home when I couldn't have it on a charger for a few days and I was away from the bike, so I wasn't able to ride it for a charge. My heated grips only worked intermittently. Etc...
Long story short, I went in the last time and told them about the issues and said I didn't want a bike I couldn't trust. It is marketed as an Adventure bike, after all.
I was very happy with the buy back. I've bought three Harleys in three and a half years from my local dealer and I still have a 2017 Ultra Classic that I love with about 36K on the odometer.
The dealer had a 2018 KTM Super Adventure R with a bit over 4K and I bought that from them so I'd have a decent ADV bike. It has just as many electrical farckles minus the ARH... which mine wasn't supposed to have anyway, so I'll see how it does.
Thanks M8, I was very serious about buying one after a test ride, here in oz, there are a lot of Pan Americas for sale with 1500-2500km, that raised some question for me. And now you have answered them. makes the CFMoto 800mt look really good at half the price.
it's a shame that this bike is so riddled with issues, because the bike its self is so comfy to sit on and the ergo's are incredible. Also the technology loaded into the bike is really awesome. Lemon Law should be covering you for everything, and this bike should have been bought back and dissolved.
The consumer, in the end, has to deal with the stress. Never again HDMC, never again.
So I’ve had some of the issues you’ve talked about but definitely all of the negative experience from multiple Harley dealerships. As far as I’m concerned I will be purchasing something different as soon as I can.
What a great video!! My wife had a 2020 HD 883 Iron and that bike was fine until it got cold, it had a lot of trouble starting when it was 20 degrees, I had a Honda NC700X and it never had any issues! I asked Harley about it and they said that I had to let it warm up we sold the bike and I will never own another HD ever! I have a 2018 Triumph Tiger 1200 XCA and I love it!!
Thanks for sharing
I bought the first year model BMW R1100RS "oilhead" back in 94. I went through three transmissions. Fortunately BMW covered all under warranty. It sucks but it is a risk with all-new first year models even on high end bikes from reputable manufacturers.
I'm really considering an adventure bike. Own several harleys and an Indian Springfield which I love. I will be going with BMW though.
Maybe you should have a test ride on KTM because same big V-Twins engine characteristics and sport bikes capabilities
@@Justwanthavefun_100 thank you. I'll check it out
I've heard the BMW GS is the best adventure bike
@@bigflave2947 If you don’t mind the sound of a large fart out of the pipe 🤣
I'd rethink that. They have corrected the launch firmware issues, and mine runs my buddy's 1250 gs right off the road. In fact he just ordered a black one. Dont kid yourself, the black forest motorad guys have plenty of issues as well, and they are located in Germany!
Thank you for the video. Definetely helped sway my decision on even test driving a pan america if its gonna give me those issues. Not what I'm looking for in an adventure bike. I"m kicking between Norden 901 and Triumph 1200 and the BMW 1250.
I found your video after hearing about my coworkers issues with her Harley experience. I was glad I bought my GS a month before Harley released the Pan American experience now.
Look at the resale value as well now, many folks are just like us and saw the light.
I’ve brought one in England 2022 plate and it’s a dream to ride been on some pretty rough tracks in wales and no problems rode it non stop for 6-7 hours that day was brilliant, on 1600 miles now big thumbs up from me 👍👍
Great to hear!
I'm glad I watched your videos. I was going to test ride a pan america this week but now I'm reconsidering. Seemed pretty good on paper and a bit cheaper than a equivalent equipped GSA. If I'm going to spend that much on a bike I don't want that many potential issues.
Not cheaper than a GSA anymore! Dealers in Cali are asking more for this bike than the GSA, totally relying on the blind loyalty to the bar and shield from many of their customers. Wake up riders!!! This bike is no where near as refined as the other offerings in this tech laiden , stacked motorcycle category. Do you really think a Pan Am is going to be a bike you can own and ride for 15 or 20 years? I'm going to a Harley demo day this Friday and I'll give the Pan Am a ride, I'm also going to ride a GSA and a new Rally Explorer on the same day. I can get the Honda AT, in top spec, with all the extras for 24500 OTD!!!!!!
I have been looking at a used 400mi 2021 Pan Am in Concord, I guess I will stick with finding a GS
Agreed, it's probably my old bike :)
@@BackDraftBikes I found a GSA, if only the recall would be completed. Waiting on a Brembo caliper. I decided to skip the Harley, seems to need some polishing. I don’t really like the radiator and cooler sitting lowest point to the ground either. Hopefully will join you on or off next week!
@@BackDraftBikes the bike was black on black.
I have 4500 miles on mine and not a single issue you are describing. Hear me out... Try another dealer. This is a new bike and other than the online training dealerships have had on the model there is not a lot of technical expertise at many dealers because they simply haven't seen many bikes yet. There is a reason many BMW shops have techs that are savvy on the bike, they see them a lot; also not a good thing. As a former F800GSA owner who had his electronic rear suspension ripped out and replaced at 800 miles, I can tell you mechanical issues happen to every bike. Maybe switch to a shop with techs that are a bit more seasoned on the bike. What I am hearing is a shop that is offering excuses, not devising a plan for resolve them. That is very much a dealership issue, not a bike issue. Just my opinion.
hey man, does it really not let you deactivate traction control?
@@dogmanXR600 1) pull over, stop, neutral, push TC button, ride away 2) create new ride mode same as some other mode but with TC off…
As a former 1200GSA owner, now a HD PA owner, I can say that I like this guy have a lot of buyers remorse. I'm trying to get on with the bike and fix the things that are wrong with it, but you know when my $6K Royal Enfield Himalayan becomes my 'go to' bike, you know there's an issue. The HD fanboys are eating up this bike, but I'm certainly not in that category. I'm hoping that I can finally find peace with this bike, but if I don't in the next several weeks, it too will find itself replaced by another GS or GSA.
@@Oldwiseguy-59 this does not actually deactivate TC. It has a hardwired system which will always cut power if it senses rear wheel slip. Plenty of people have been reporting issues with this, and dozens of other problems.
I have my PA and just hit 5k miles on the bike, I went through 3 batteries, one wiring harness, one starter motor and a few softwares updates… Still having trouble with the bike…
Thank you for making this video. People that say “this is expected” or “all new bikes have issues” etc have never bought a quality motorcycle.
Thank you for the review. This year, when I was upgrading my bike, I was considering the HD Pan America. However, after reading reviews like this one, I decided to stick with BMW. I bought a 2023 BMW R1250GS with most of the options. No problems - a great bike. BMW has had 40 years to refine and improve the formula. Dealing with the various error codes (mentioned in numerous posts by various riders) would drive me up the wall. A great review and I am sorry for your experiences with HD. I hope that it goes well with BMW.
Good trade, they don't call them Hardly Ableson's for nothing!!
I bought mine last September and have 500 miles on it so far. I'm having leaks and issues starting it. This looks like an ominous portent of things to come.
I'm a PAS owner. It's great when it works but many times it doesn't. And HD won't even try to fix some things that should be fixed on warranty!
The starter making that weird noise is normal, it's just a protection clutch in the starter to prevent it from breaking if it tries to crank the engine when it's at maximum compression stroke on the engine.
I just bought a 2022 Pan Am and so far so good. Put 500 miles on it last weekend and no issue's. I will say I was not impressed with the set up from dealer when I picked it up last Decemeber. The handle bars were not adjusted and almost touching the tank. The clutch adjustment had no slack in it and the clutch slipped. The engine oil level was at the very bottom of the dip stick. With that being said I had Brian Gray perfromance set the bike up as it should have been from the dealer and it has performed as it should. I have installed an exhaust from A1 CYCLES and it sounds amzing a little loud but great sound. I'm really hoping that the 2022 is a better model then the 2021. If it is not I will be doing exactly what you did and be coming home with a BMW or maybe a KTM. Thanks for your great review and honesty.
Thanks for the info.. never buying an adventure hd!
Hey Pete. Best of luck with the new bike. Sorry the Pan America did not work out for you.
Thank you kind sir. I still have my Iron Head, and now a GSA
Thanks for this info.
WoW!! Weird truly. I have not had any problems with my 2021 Special. I have dumped it about 12 times. I do put it on a battery tender.
Tighten your battery terminals. Keep it on tender when parked. They are very voltage sensitive. Have dealership update modules. Freeish should be.
My Pan America has been perfect, I have not had any of the issues you described. As for your tire wearing, that is a tire manufacture, not the Harley. You may have been running at low pressure. One thing I have noticed is the dealerships are having growing pains with this bike. It will take a while for the technicians to get around the learning curve. However, I do not care for the side stand or how it is mounted the the engine case. Beyond that I love my Pan America.
On a Pan Am page, there was a survey of who has and hadn't had problems with their bikes. Turns out the percentage was very small. This poor guy got a lemon. Perhaps the lemon law would have been the way for him to go. I would have pursued it for sure. But this is not typical of the bikes and they are selling very well.
@Peter Angles do you feel better now?
@Peter Angles show us on the dollie where the bad Harley people hurt you!
That sucks and I think you have made the correct decision in the switch, guess I will skip the HD till it has had some further positive road time, my GS has had minor issues as they all do but you will now learn about a whole new cat, happy trails
I have a 2021 with just over 5100 miles and it's stranded me twice now with starting issues. Seriously considering giving it back.
That sucks to have problems like that! Your more patient than I am.
I think you made a good choice getting away from the HD. None of them are perfect, I’ve owned more than a few ADV bikes. I recently went with a GS1250 myself. Great bike so far.
Good luck and let us know what u think of your GS.
Appreciate it mate! Yes, I am really liking the 1200, snow is coming so I think it will be a few months before I get to ride it again
I live in Thailand and I owned a 2021 model Pan Am, I had lots of problems.
Steering triple-tree replaced
Stator (generator) replaced
Rear rail replaced
Suspension locked in high position a number of times.
Bike would not start numerous times.
Bike would go into limp mode
Clutch broke and replaced twice
Gears replaced
Battery replaced
Finally another steering problem.
Owned the bike only for 9 months (3 months of which it was in the dealer). Sold it back to the dealer (lost a lot of money on it) and replaced it with a Heritage 114.
I recently bought a 22 model. Hit 920 miles and the front exhaust cam Sprocket came apart. Catastrophic failure. Thankfully Harley, of course, approved a new motor under warranty. We'll see if anything else happens.
Yikes!
Good vid. I live in the UK and I have yet to see the Harley adv on the road. I also ride the r1200GS LC. It’s the 2014 model. Can’t really think of anything I don’t like about it, except everyone else has one too. Such a confident machine. Yesterday the average fuel consumption was 76 mpg. That might not mean much over your side of the pond because your gallons are different. It is pretty astonishing! Never had a more fuel-efficient bike which is great because right now fuel prices are the highest ever seen in the UK.
I'll be looking at the PA in about 6 years. I'm glad they made it and I hope they keep refining it and making it better.
I've never owned a Harley that didn't have issues, my 1st year Streetglide had serious safety/performance issues. I finally got so fed up with Harleys and bad service that after 13 years I went back to metrics and have been riding much happier.
Thank you.
Twice that time in HD saddles, evo onward, and never an issue. One leak on a 2011 ultra. multi 100k miles combined.
I have a R1200GSA, identical to what you now have, with a couple mods to keep up with faster bikes. My wife asked me to try the HD PA, and I always said NO. I have a HD Road Kinng Special, which is what a HD should be.
Thank you very much. I was going to trade in my Anniversary Heritage for the Pan America but your problems have convinced me to move away from Harley. I too had Problems with the Heritage(1620 miles) that Harley refused to cover under Warranty.
THey have fixed all of the launch issues. Trust me motorad has the same issues. I'd go Honda or KTM for ADV way before a black forest machine. My 22 Pan has had zero issues. Never buy a launch edition and expect perfection.
I have 4k miles on the 22 special. no issues so far. been on trails and dirt mud and all regularly. but that dealership does sound like trash though.
Hi Pete very interesting video. I have owned my PAS here in the UK, having traded my 1200 GS, for a couple of months now but I have only done 600 miles on it. After just riding it for 27 miles it lost all power and had to be retrieved from the side of the road by my dealership. My dealership is excellent and soon had the issue resolved and they delivered it back to my home. Like you I did not want the extended warranty and there was no pressure from them to take one out. More on them later. This being my first ever Harley having ridden bikes for 50 yrs + I so wanted to like it. Initially I missed the low down torque of my GS but I compensated for that with the induction noise of the PAS in Sports mode. At my dealership some of the non riding PAS owners would cheekily call my bike a Honda but it was all in good fun, Some of them went even further and suggested I test rode a proper Harley but I was reluctant to do that for a long time. But only last Saturday walking around looking at the used bikes I spotted a 2014 Fat Boy which is immaculate , although older than my bike. Long story short I took it for a test ride and loved it. Its got so much more character in comparison to my PAS that I have decided to part exchange my bike to buy it. Just like you I would of brought another GS But given how good my dealership is and the fact that our H.O.G Chapter meet there weekly and I have formed strong friendships within the group the Fat Boy will do me fine. With regards to the PAS rather than speak badly of it I will just say that it did not suit my needs and in my opinion lacks Soul. Enjoy your new bike.
Thank you for the comment, I hear you. I was hoping for more out of the MoCo. So far I am loving the GSA. Maybe in a year or two I will see where HD went with this bike...ride safe mate!
Very honest reel. Sorry you are getting this headache. Good on you for sharing this. BMW GS is very refined. I believe these bikes are so troublesome because they are assembled here in modules to evade the tariffs The ones manufactured entirely in China/Taiwan are trouble free
Right on
Good luck and God bless you if you went to a BMW. I've had 6-7 GS's over the years as well as other models. I currently own 3 BMW's. It's the most high-maintenance and problem-prone of any brand I've owned. The 1200 water cooled bikes, even my new 1250, have currently pending recalls for driveshaft and transmission shaft issues. The one you got is a part of that recall so check to see if the recall has been done. Ironically, I also own 3-4 Harleys, one for 45 years. They've all been the most dependable, least maintenance brand I've owned. I don't have a Pan American but know several people who do and all of them have not experienced any problems. At least the issues you report seem only niggling to me but, still, you shouldn't have to worry about that stuff. Good luck!!!
My 2nd PAS is for sale, but it will never sell. First PAS STB. Not a word from Bull Run Harley since they swapped it out for one that wouldn’t start at pickup. Don’t trust it.
Potential buyers ask why I’m selling it. I say because there are big problems. I also say, I wouldn’t buy it if I were you. So it sits and collects dust while I ride my other ADV bike.
I had a pan america for a loan bike for 1 week. It had weird issues trying to start. You'd tap the one touch and it would crank once but not fire. I thought it was the battery so I had a charger and charged it. Didn't change anything then I went to return it and get my bike and it had a n exclamation mark in a triangle in the mode selection. Apart from this issue it was an amazing bike to ride. Heated grips, wonderful power and handling. I would really love to own one and I'm sure they will come out with a fix
Agree, they are fun, but too glitchy
People are dumping these left & right. There are tons of used ones with low miles. Buyers beware.
Bought a 2022 Pan America Special:
1). Dies randomly
2). Difficulty starting.
3). Improperly grounded (according to dealer mech).
4). Bosch connectors not properly seated.
5). Replaced ECM
6). Replaced head gasket.
7). Replaced front piston (was getting coolant in engine).
8). Currently replacing voltage regulator ( still waiting after 10 days)
Yep.....as much of a fan I was about the Pan America, my experience has been trash. Almost exactly 5,000 miles on this bike. Trying to claim a Lemon Law on the bike. Bike, plus T,T&L, plus paniers and top case, upgraded skid plate, added auxiliary headlights, highway pegs and added auxiliary stop light....right at $30,000. Dealership in Bedford, Texas, where I bought the bike, offered me $12,000 for trade in. 😂. Yep....seeking legal counsel. Wish me luck!
I am sorry. I feel you.
Wow I have been looking at one at the local dealer, was thinking of going back up there and getting one today, decided to check U Tube on reliability on the Pan America, I see many people with problems. So, I am not going to get the PA I have been looking at for a couple of weeks. I did see many used ones with low milage at the dealer, that my was first warning of possible problems. Thanks for saving me a lot of $$
Thank you! And yer welcome my friend. BMW GSA all the way now
After watching this it makes me want to keep my 21 Honda Africa twin DCT . 10k since last July, no problems.
ha ha theres nothing to compares between those 2 bikes...youre joking right?😁
Hello !
One of my subscribers recommended that I watch this video....
i have had very similar issues, actually going to the shop again tomorrow....only 4000 kms.
did you find the issue on the PA, water in the air box ? ? rusted filter ? only 4000 kms ?
Sorry to hear you had all the issues
Yes I did. It is indicative on the position of the filter and the was water comes up off the front tire. I went with a K/N that I could clean easier. Still not easy with the removal of the tank that had zero thought into trailside repairs///
I had to get rid of mine after just 1700 kilometres as it kept breaking down and I couldn’t ever ride the damned thing because it was always in for warranty repairs. The new Harleys are junk.
As a HD owner of the past I feel your pain. I think HD makes more money in service & parts than bikes sales , unless you finance you're bike through them, then they got you on their hook!
I have a 2013 Yamaha that I bought in early 2013. It now has close to 67,000 miles on it and the only thing that's given me trouble is the cruise control cancel switch in the front brake lever, and right as it started acting up I received a letter in the mail from Yamaha of North America about a recall for the same problem. Yamaha fixed it for free... That's the difference between a company that's dedicated to selling quality and one that's dedicated to taking your money. Harley Davidson should be a marketing company, because that's what they're really good at.
Yamaha Tracer 900;
First ride...80mph, the high pressure fuel blew out of the tank,showered the whole bike in fuel, luckily it didn't ignite!
Sump bolts not torqued up,missed at service,leaking oil!
Rear axle nut not torqued!
Tracer 700;
No ABS...connection loose
3mth wait for 1st service, did it myself, put in Motul full synthetic, told Yamaha NOT to drain oil or change K+N...they did both,replaced with Yamalube(Citgo,a Venezuelan oil,'Shitgo'),bike then wouldn't drop gears at the lights without the clutch being used, they literally ruined my engine! Motul has 160yrs of technology!
I got rid of that machine and replaced it with a same model from a salvage yard, a better bike!
You will absolutely love the BMW! They take a bit of getting used to as to the shakes and such but it's just a fun bike. I have a 05 R1200GS ( and oldie) and out of all the bikes I have owned in my life this is my favorite. It doesn't do it all but what it does do it does it well. I have actually never ridden a GS other than mine so even I can't say the WC bikes are better or anything. I will also say that my bike was a rental bike in Denver and has a little over 107000 miles on her. I've put about 25k on the bike in the just shy of 3 years of ownership. Should easily see 200k+! And then do I sell the bike? Hell no. I slap a used engine in it if all the rest is still good. Am I gonna say they are without maintenance? Hell no there not. But they have character. My wife and I moto camp here in Colorado and surrounding states. I actually tow a trailer with my GS and it loves it. Plenty of power and torque. A few maintenance issues due to the mileage but with a little help the bike really isn't all that tough to work on. Now my engine only goes from 05 to 09. Past that it's different heads. I find my years reasonably simple to work on. Simple is better in the world of ADV. Unless you consider that urban trek across town to your favorite coffee shop your daily adventure. Oh and with that being said I just wanted to say that people kinda say that the 05 and 06 years are the worst. And my 05 is super early production month so my bike should be a huge POS right? I have all the factory BMW paperwork and there's nothing major there. But over all unless I was going to buy a regular dirt bike I probably would not really consider a Japanese bike. And to be honest with you about the Pan America is it looks like a catfish. Sorry has some neat features I guess but you did a great job explaining to me why there are so many of these coming up for sale online. Ride safe and enjoy that BMW!
RIDE IT BROTHER!
And there is something to looking like every other GS guy on the dirt. My 22 pan runs circles on my buddys gs. Maintenance you say. Yes no one make it any more complicated than over engineered black forest motorad engineers. Worst cars on the planet, bikes are much better but Ill take the V twin 13.1 self adjusting valves over the wierd balanced air head motor.
I was considering replacing my old 1990 electra glide with a Pan America. I think I'll wait until they get their act together. People have more problems with these things than I've had in 34 years and 75,000 miles on my electra glide. Such a shame because I really like them.
So it really is a Harley Dirt Glide after all. Just 24 hours ago I drove home on a spanking new '22 Africa Twin AS DCT and I'm loving it.
There are bikes made on a Monday or a Friday. Yours was a Saturday 😅Don't feel bad I have a friend who is on his second triumph adventure bike. First one was a lemon. Bad ecm the works. Second one has issues too. They spend more time at the dealership than with him. I'm talking months at a time.
Great review. I also watched your review of the new Sporty. I have owned Harley's for over 20 yrs and the service I received at three different dealerships in two different states has turned me off the the Brand---So I am not at all surprised with your experience with Laconia Harley-Davidson. This is why I am now an Indian Motorcycle customer. Coming up on my 5K mile service on my 2022 Indian FTR-S and have experienced none of the issues I saw you have had with your PanAm or that my riding buddy has seen with his brand new 2021 Sportster-S. My bike is a daily rider, to include riding at 5am in temps in the teens; no cold start issues on my 2022 FTR-S. Once again, great review and hope your BMW proves a better two-wheel experience for you.
I love the Indians
Indian’s? You mean Polaris….
Polaris, Indian, victory all the same. But tend to be pretty ok
Cant blame you really I would have walked at hour 2 waiting for the battery. I wish Harley would crack down on these predatory dealers it just ruins the whole experience. First dealer I went to was so disgusting I walked out much to there surprise. When they asked why I was leaving I just said Im 52 ive dealt with scumbags before its amazing in 2022 its still happening . Went to another dealer who was great no BS were MSRP take it or leave it. Deal was done in 15 mins and everyone was happy, big difference dealing with a professional shop.
Think you made the right choice. While I might start with something smaller for off-road think I'll go with the GSA. They're not problem free either but overall seems to be a better bike.
Thank you for the video. I was between the AFRICAN TWIN, and the Pan. This video really helped me decide. With the limited time I have to ride anyway I don’t want to spend that time riding to the dealer.
Glad it was helpful!
I have an older BMW bike, I put about 14k miles on it annually and do most of the routine maintenance myself. Surprisingly, the bike has been more reliable than my Ford vehicle. I’ll definitely be getting another BMW motorcycle in the future
Newer ones are much less reliable than the old air-oil cooled, they have lots of problems with the electronic suspension, engine control, gearbox and quickshifters.
Why didnt you get either a fairly newish used 1150 gsa or a new one rather than the 1200
Wow, i had the ame terrible experience at HD Yuba City with buying my 2022 Pan America, will never buy another from that place. But I love my Pan America, the road settings on off road plus with TC manually placed off gives me plenty of power as long as i am abouve 4k rom’s. Best of luck with your BMW, they are great bikes. But I am happy with my choice thus far
me too
I want a PanAmerica so bad. I’m wondering if they corrected these issues on the 2022? I won’t buy a 2021 because of this review. I still want one tho
I think I'll keep my 2017 GS now. Looking at cycle Cycle trader there seems to be a lot of low mileage PA's for sale. Wonder why. I do applaud Harley for making the effort. I've owned a few harleys, the last one being an 04 Ultra Classic. That bike had three rear brake failures (it was an unseated o-ring. Dealer took care of it and even picked it up). The Harley buying experience leaves a lot to be desired. It a horrible "my way or the highway" experience. Shitty attitude and pressure. The first time I looked at the PA they wanted 26K with no bags or anything and wanted a deposit to test ride it. BMW will pressure you to test ride their bikes. Of course there aren't as many dealers and parts can be pricey. At this point HD prices are beyond ridiculous. No wonder you can finance one for up to 94 months. You'd really take a bath over that. My GS has all the features the new bikes have, I just don't have the digital console. Then again, I prefer analog gauges.
I rode a BMW and that completely changed my mind. I did have issues with an 08 R1200RT. The bike would shut off at speed. Yes I did have a BMW problem once. The dealer played it off as a fluke or said I wasn't riding the bike properly, it would always restart. Knock on wood the GS has been flawless. I also own an Interceptor 650 for general commuting.
I still want one.
Nothing wrong with the R1200GSA though.. solid bike.
I don't buy the "first generation" excuse. They were developing the Pan America for three years before it finally got to dealers. Plenty of time to work out issues.
But I still want one. Waiting to see if anything changes for 2022.
Truth
Did you end up buying one?
You make the right move my Gs1200 2017 no problem
Hate hearing this. I'm a Mainer (Lovell) and after not riding for 45 years, I bought a new HD Sport Glide this past May. Me? A Harley? After all those years bashing them? It was an impulse buy. Of all things, my wife encouraged me to get it! Well alrighty then! Anyway, I've been really impressed with this particular bike. I knew what I was getting. What surprised me most was how much I love forward controls! This bike fits me like a glove. No complaints. However, when I looked over a nice green PA I was intrigued. I grew up on dirt bikes. I'm 66 but the idea of a nice dual purpose ADV bike appeals to me. Maine roads. Nuff said. I've been thinking the past few weeks that maybe a PA would be worth considering trading the SG in. I've felt the GS was always tad too intimidating. The PA's active suspension features are pretty slick. I too tend to think this might be a dealer issue. If it were me I'd go somewhere else. I think it'd be a shame to let it go without giving it a try. For all intents these are first gen bikes. Bound to be issues. The somewhat cheap windshield setup for one. But.... fixable stuff. A pain? Sure. Hoping for best resolution for you.
Hello neighbor! I love Kezar Lake. Good fishing! I wouldn’t go with the PA yet, way to many issues to sort out yet. You should look at the other videos on the channel, you may see a few familiar sites. I did the four corners and filmed it last year, search ‘fringes of Maine’ and you should find it. Hope to see you soon! Pete
New anything whether it's bikes, or cars sometimes have bugs. But imo HD should stick to their bread and butter. I would have got a bmw gs 1300 but that's just me. I have a 08 Streetglide which is pretty simple. Not a ton of crazy electronics. Never ever had any issues. Vehicles now days have wayyyy too much electronic b.s
Ride on. Hope u have better luck going forward!
yeah is a visible big difference between those 2 bikes but how much money is the difference?
That is how free markets work, if the product is defective, and can't be fixed, they should refund you under lemon laws, they vary from state to state, the bmw was one of My choices, but I saved over $5000 buying My 2022 Pan America, and I have not had any trouble in the first 7000 miles, this is My first Harley, good luck and happy trails to You Sir.
Wow, was literally going to buy one this week and your video popped up, thanks a heap. Feel sorry for the riders that have bought these and are going to actually use them for adventure touring, I'd be concerned about getting stuck in outback Australia for some stupid electronic fault.
cant believe they sale that garbage in australia...i used to believe that kind of crap is only for us in america
Wow! Thanks for this video!. I was seriously going to buy one in a week or two!!. Not now!. I'm going to my BMW dealer this week!.. Bet that HD dealer didn't even give a crap, I know my HD dealer is awfull too with several problems with my Brand new 22 Road King with less than 900 miles, And they say there's nothing wrong either!!. HA!
I had same problems, sold it. Junk.
Wow was not expecting that. I wanted to buy the PanAM when it came out, but the voice of reason “wife” said you should wait a year. Smart lady. As these bikes get more off road use as they are intended the proof will be in the pudding.
Total garbage that as soon as you take it off road with TC disabled it starts throwing codes. Corp says "Oh. You were taking it off road. Yes." ??? This is an ADV bike, no?
Welcome to the world of Harley Davidson once they get your money your screwed. I’ve owned 4 never again.
Great video, I don't know what HD are doing, seems like they've lost the plot!! Cant fault your final choice, the BMW GSA 1200/1250 are superb bikes, had 3 of them, never let me down.
Totally agree
Did they charge anything like diagnose fee
No, just my time. Lots of time.
Me and buddy having same starting issue. Both bikes wouldn't start period and so makes the weird noise when they start.
My first alarm bell would have gone off when they said you would regret not taking out extended warranty. There’s obviously a reason for that, you need it, as you found out. Smart move buying a BMW they make nice bikes. All the best for your riding future.
Thanks for your review. I was hoping that the Pan America would be a better bike. I’m not sure I want to have to experience any of the issues you pointed out. I will probably just find a great BMW to upgrade from my current V-Strom 650. I really like the adv riding position / style. So it have a good mix between ADV and touring with my Goldwing being my second bike.
I really like the Beemer.
I have a 2020 DCT Tour wing and am looking for an adventure bike also but I've got enough technology on my Wing to choke a horse. I've decided on the Tenere 700 ( if I can ever find one!) My feeling is the electronics and all the technology are cool to play with, but just don't mesh with the terrain and environment of off roading. JMHO
Nah, hes wrong. Zero problems with my 22 pan am, HD has corrected most if not all the firmware glitches. Its an awesome machine!