@@jamalvines2133 Don't take this the wrong way, but what's this "atmosphere" you're talking about, like fan consensus or something like that...Like this is a genuine question and I'm confused...
Stockton is criminally underrated. Most NBA RUclips hates him. Lots of people don't even have him top 5 PG or in their top 30. He made the team around him better and his advanced stats prove it. He's #6 all time in career win shares. He's #3 all time on FiveThirtyEight's JAWS. People like stats until they don't like the answers they give. 😆 He has a bunch of Wilt-tier records that will never be broken (he missed like 4 games in 18 years or something absurd). I'd choose him in a heartbeat over any other point guard. You don't need every player to be scoring machines. You need some players that elevate those around them and run smart plays. I also believe steals are SOMETIMES more important than scoring. If your opponent is averaging 1.2 points per possession, and your team is averaging 1.1 points per possession, then a steal deprives your opponent of a possession (-1.2 points) and gives your team an extra possession (+1.1), creating a 2.1 point differential. That's one reason Stockton does so well on advanced stats like win shares, even though he's blowing up the score board himself.
Underated parts of Stocktons game were that he was a lil dirty at times but he was sneaky af and played into the clean cut image like CP3. Plus he was said to be really strong for his size.
Haha yup. I remember seeing him and Jordan go at it several times. But all of those guys wanted to win with every fiber in their body. Just feels like in todays game a lot of the guys don't have that killer instinct. You still have some of course, but it just seems more rare today.
Stockton was too unselfish. He easily could have averaged 21 and 11. He was a great defensive guard. I think he still holds the record for most steals and offensive charges. He was much better defensively than Thomas. His physical play on the defensive end was almost on a different level. Because of his toughness, he was labeled as a dirty player. But even if that is true, he was effective to a fault and denied other players of their usual game. He's a HOF player, but I have several guards ahead of him. Great vid as always!!
@@futurefox635 he drives a lot tho and had good shot selection bro... he did not only dump it off to malone, he just knew which move was the right one to make whether that was to pass, drive, shoot, etc.
Isiah had all stars Laimbeer, Aguirre, HOF Dumars, HOF Rodman, 6th man Microwave....oh, and Thomas himself HOF player. Yes, Stock had Malone, and thats pretty much it. Hornacek was awesome, but knee gone. Same with Magic Lakers, Jordan Bulls, Bird Celts, etc etc etc. Frankly, the amount of winning Stockton and Malone achieved is nothing short of amazing.
@futurefox635 omg, what a silly response. And stockton used his left. Literally many times, not sure where you casuals come up with this lie. The fact remains that Thomas had loads of help, much, much more than Stockton had. That is fact.
I didnt say stockton *never used* his left hand. Im saying his left hand was a massive weakness and his opponents knew it. And it cost him because they would trap him going right and he would be forced to pick up his drible (the guy ALWAYS picked up his drible when forced left) It literally cost him in the biggest games not going left under pressure. @@markbrinton6790
John Stockton is the greatest pure pg ever. I'd still take Magic over him because John was unselfish to a fault. He should have been a touch more selfish.
Stockton was twice as fast as everyone else. He could have been a track star. Guys could be near the half line at a dead run.. john could be 25 ft behind them.. and he could catch up and get in front of them before they reached THE PAINT. i swear he was like the flash
Thing about Stockton is if you draft him for your franchise, he’s so consistent that he hardly missed games and on top of all that was mentioned in the clip, with his style of play he could play at that level for nearly 20 years. Word was mans used to pull up in a minivan before getting the better of his opponent because he was so pesky and annoying like a lil fly. Definitely no one like him before or since
Nah. I’d go Alvin Robertson, and cp3 first. Cp having 6 steals leads is insane. But Stockton definitely is in that same boat. U also got jordan, GP, Kidd, and Maurice cheeks. U also have to factor in jerry west who didn’t have his steals counted but he definitely was an amazing ball thief and would probably be the all time leader if they did count.
I watched several Jazz games in person growing up and went to a few Jazz camps. I know how good he was. The problem is, so many ppl today don’t know anything about the game and think it’s all about dunking and launching 3-pointers from 30 feet out.
To echo other comments, he was great in all areas, just not the All time leader.. categories.. This Vid shows a bit of what he was like.. It was so fun back then. Only Jersey I ever bought was his.
Stockton #1 in career steals with 3265 and 2nd place is Kidd at 2684. 581 behind Stockton. In assists: Stockton #1 at 15806 with Kidd #2 at 12091. 3715 behind Stockton
more than " not athletic" he was born with a body that didn't given him the best physical possibilities so he was doing what he could with what he had he simply pushed his "normal" body to the best he could physicaly! see him more like that, he was clearly not shaquille o'neil physicaly but what he didn't had in body he did it in technic and willpower!
You don't play in the 80s and 90s NBA for 20 years! lead in Assists AND Steals without supreme athleticism! Jumping is not he only way to define athletes, and yes Stocks had wheels!
Stockton is the greatest pure point guard ever. Magic, West, and Curry are the greatest scoring point guards ever. Isaiah isn't even in the conversation really for best point guard cause who isn't picking Stockton, Magic, Curry, Pistol, or West over Isaiah...
for the first question i pick johns stocktons, yes he was far from flashy but in is PG position i think they NEVER had a better one that him he was not flashy don't had impressive moves but he perfected the basis of a point guard to the core, he was not here to be seen he was here to make his team win ( to bad that his team only had " the mailman" as a very good player too, it's why for me the team lost everytime you can have a perfect brain if your limbs are weak you wont go far and utah only had one genius brain ( stocktons) and one good arm (malone)!
You can't look at a mix tape someone put together to get a clear picture of how someone played the game, you should watch entire games or series' to understand.
yes stocktons in the public eyes would be a dirty player, he i think had the mentality " all for the team" his goal was to make his team win and would do anything for that be it clean or dirty it's why i don't call him a "dirty" player ( even if he certainely was doing dirty things) but a PRAGMATICAL player "the result is what is important!" it's to why he was a perfect " familly man"!
I have always made the argument he belonged on the Dream Team. The last thing that squad needed was a shooting PG, they needed 2 assist guys. And they got the 2 best in Magic and John. Was never a believer that Isiah belonged on the Dream Team over Stockton. Now to John Stocktons fans he is overrated.He is easily the least physically talented of any of the great PGs. No hops, speed, or even great handles. He had good handles, efficient handles. His shooting was so so and streaky, and his 3 point game, although sometimes effective, was not a major threat. That being said, to the people who havent seen him, or arent fans of his, I find he is criminally underrated. His consistency as a playmaker was as steady as the tides. Tenacity was comparable to Jordan. Toughness and mean streak elbows to rival the Pistons and Knicks. Vision was only in a league with Magic. Never seen a PG before or since that had floor awareness and vision that those 2 possessed. Uncanny, unnatural instincts. Although was the slower player in a ton of matchups, was hardly ever a defensive liability. Most steals in NBA history kind of proves that. What he lacked in size and athleticism he made up for in toughness and smarts. For his era, and the era right before him, he was THE prototype for a PG. Magic was the freak, Stockton was possibly the purest PG to ever play. His fans claim him as the all time PG, but hes not. Magic had freakish size, freakish talent, and had the vision and playmaking with it. But John is an easy 2nd in my eyes. The Chris Pauls and Isiahs, and whomever you choose to name, run distant 3rds in my book. Theres a PG tier of Magic and John. The rest can fight for supremacy on that 2nd tier. As far as getting the most out of what God handed you, him and Iverson are the only 2 HOF players who come from that mold. He was generational and overlooked for the most part. He was not exciting. He was not flashy. He has no ring based solely on the fact that Magic and Jordan played when he did. But his game spoke volumes. If you have a kid who wants to be a PG, there are a few you would want them to watch to learn, to understand the position more. He is one of those few you would want them to witness.
@@TheIcemanthomas my argunent was that alot of players are more talented, but none are better players. Jason Williams was more talented, not better. Gary Payton was more talented, but not better. My argument pretty much agrees with you.
I cant understand that Stockton only averaged about 13 points per game, yet had a 52% 2 point and 38% 3 point average. He had to keep his shots at a low level?
Isiah Thomas all defensive teams 0. John Stockton 5 times. 55th in all time scoring considering all he did is pass is not a bad stat either. 2 20-20 games vs Magic Johnson in the playoffs. He was as clutch as he wanted to be.
@HenDawgz Thanks U For Watching John Stockton & Please Watch More Players That Played In Michael Air Jordan Era. I Have Been Watching BBall Since 1986 & Played Ball All My Life. Now Too Many People Say MJ Is Overrated. He Won A Lot Against Nobodies Lmao. Because They Under Rates His Competition. These Same People Under Rate Their Skills, Talents, Defense, Athleticism, & Their BBall I.Q. Because They Never Or Barely Watched These Great Players Play The Game Of Basketball. HenDawgz U Just Watched Some Clips Of Stockton Your Eyes Tells U That John Was No Joke. Please Watch More Videos Of Other Great Players In MJ's Era They Deserves A Lot Of Respect. Honestly Players Today To Me Are Not More Athletic Or Just Equal To In Most Areas. Most Players Today Are Better Trained With Their Balance & Footwork On Offense. The Only Big Difference In Today NBA Is The Spacing Of Players Defending Other Players. As Well The Spacing The Players Have Away From The Basket On The Court. Keep Up The Great Commentary!! Your Basketball Knowledge Is Getting Better By The Day. Also Kobe Was Definitely Clutch Lol
At one point Phil Jackson wanted to avoid facing Utah Jazz especially in 1998 because they swept Lakers that had four All-Star players (Shaq, Afro Kobe, Eddie Jones, and Van Exel) in the previous playoff series. Jazz’s system and intelligence would outsmart a lot of teams, even my 1998 Bulls to an extent. Of course MJ was a bit too much for them at the end. 😅 I’m 38 and I’ve seen the entire NBA in 90s.
Magic Johnson was wayyyy better PG than John Stockton. I do believe he would be top 3 or 4 though.... Im not saying he wasnt deadly. But you gotta give that cake to the silky smooth Magic
John Stockton. Stockton definitely was the better defender. Look at the stats, look at the video. No disrespect to Zeke, he was good as well, but I feel Stockton was a little bit better defender.
I grew up watching those guys first thing after I started watching those guys everyone else except one or two others you know I lost interest in watching he just wasn't fun those two could play an outrun people always showed up and they were just fun I'm great combination both great it players independently but together they were f****** almost unbeatable
Hope y’all enjoyed this video! Was Stockton overrated or underrated?! 🤔
kinda underrated
HenDawgz, Stockton was criminally underrated.
BETTER THAN EVERY GUARD TODAY. INCLUDING STEPH, YOU KIDS HAD TO BEEN FROM THE ERA TO UNDERSTAND THE ATMOSPHERE. THE BEST ERA IN ANY SITUATION IN LIFE
@@jamalvines2133 Don't take this the wrong way, but what's this "atmosphere" you're talking about, like fan consensus or something like that...Like this is a genuine question and I'm confused...
Massively ovverated. Half of his legacy is Malone Turn Around Jumpers
Stockton is criminally underrated. Most NBA RUclips hates him. Lots of people don't even have him top 5 PG or in their top 30.
He made the team around him better and his advanced stats prove it. He's #6 all time in career win shares. He's #3 all time on FiveThirtyEight's JAWS.
People like stats until they don't like the answers they give. 😆
He has a bunch of Wilt-tier records that will never be broken (he missed like 4 games in 18 years or something absurd).
I'd choose him in a heartbeat over any other point guard. You don't need every player to be scoring machines. You need some players that elevate those around them and run smart plays.
I also believe steals are SOMETIMES more important than scoring. If your opponent is averaging 1.2 points per possession, and your team is averaging 1.1 points per possession, then a steal deprives your opponent of a possession (-1.2 points) and gives your team an extra possession (+1.1), creating a 2.1 point differential. That's one reason Stockton does so well on advanced stats like win shares, even though he's blowing up the score board himself.
Underated parts of Stocktons game were that he was a lil dirty at times but he was sneaky af and played into the clean cut image like CP3. Plus he was said to be really strong for his size.
Haha yup. I remember seeing him and Jordan go at it several times. But all of those guys wanted to win with every fiber in their body. Just feels like in todays game a lot of the guys don't have that killer instinct. You still have some of course, but it just seems more rare today.
I would go with Stockton over Thomas all day. Not only is the all time assist leader, he's also the all time steals leader.
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I SEE YOU KIDS DON'T KNOW WHAT A LEADER IS. LACK OF FATHERS I GUESS
This is a wild take. IT is way way better than Stockton. you are putting way to much weight into Longevity and Karl Malone turnaround jumpers.
Stockton was too unselfish. He easily could have averaged 21 and 11. He was a great defensive guard. I think he still holds the record for most steals and offensive charges. He was much better defensively than Thomas. His physical play on the defensive end was almost on a different level. Because of his toughness, he was labeled as a dirty player. But even if that is true, he was effective to a fault and denied other players of their usual game. He's a HOF player, but I have several guards ahead of him. Great vid as always!!
Who in the hell are "several better guards"? Magic,Stockton, Isaiah,Jkidd
Best of all time.
Greatest “Pure” PG of all time.
No. His entire career is based on someone else hitting TURN AROUND JUMPERS. He did not set up Malone for easy baskets... He got free assists.
@@futurefox635 he drives a lot tho and had good shot selection bro... he did not only dump it off to malone, he just knew which move was the right one to make whether that was to pass, drive, shoot, etc.
@@futurefox635Dumb take
@@malvolio01 was my favorite player growing up but I recognize him for what he is. Good player elevated by Malone's midrange
@@futurefox635 He made Malone better. Not the other way around
Isiah had all stars Laimbeer, Aguirre, HOF Dumars, HOF Rodman, 6th man Microwave....oh, and Thomas himself HOF player. Yes, Stock had Malone, and thats pretty much it. Hornacek was awesome, but knee gone. Same with Magic Lakers, Jordan Bulls, Bird Celts, etc etc etc. Frankly, the amount of winning Stockton and Malone achieved is nothing short of amazing.
Malone is better than anyone you just listed. So you proved yourself Wrong. Stock has no left hand and thats why he doesnt have a ring.
@futurefox635 omg, what a silly response. And stockton used his left. Literally many times, not sure where you casuals come up with this lie. The fact remains that Thomas had loads of help, much, much more than Stockton had. That is fact.
I didnt say stockton *never used* his left hand. Im saying his left hand was a massive weakness and his opponents knew it. And it cost him because they would trap him going right and he would be forced to pick up his drible (the guy ALWAYS picked up his drible when forced left) It literally cost him in the biggest games not going left under pressure. @@markbrinton6790
Stockton could read the play as good as anybody. Very quick reflexes. Horniseck was pretty good player himself and was a part of their chemistry.
Hornacek
The greatest pure point guard ever
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John Stockton is the greatest pure pg ever. I'd still take Magic over him because John was unselfish to a fault. He should have been a touch more selfish.
Ala Steve nash
Stockton wasn’t super fast, but he was quicker than 99% of any point guards who ever played. That’s how he got so many steals.
And he was STRONG AF too. And he was a lil manipulative and dirty at times
He was a lot faster than it looks on film. My bother played with him .
he has quick first step HOF
Stockton was twice as fast as everyone else. He could have been a track star. Guys could be near the half line at a dead run.. john could be 25 ft behind them.. and he could catch up and get in front of them before they reached THE PAINT. i swear he was like the flash
super underrated. I always never understood at the time how he was so good and always lit up the laker teams.
Thing about Stockton is if you draft him for your franchise, he’s so consistent that he hardly missed games and on top of all that was mentioned in the clip, with his style of play he could play at that level for nearly 20 years. Word was mans used to pull up in a minivan before getting the better of his opponent because he was so pesky and annoying like a lil fly. Definitely no one like him before or since
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"He would arrive in a minivan, pop the kids out, go out there and bust us up"
Stockton was the equivalent of a great QB if you had him you had a chance in every game
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Stockton is the greatest steals man of all time.
Nah. I’d go Alvin Robertson, and cp3 first. Cp having 6 steals leads is insane. But Stockton definitely is in that same boat. U also got jordan, GP, Kidd, and Maurice cheeks. U also have to factor in jerry west who didn’t have his steals counted but he definitely was an amazing ball thief and would probably be the all time leader if they did count.
Stockton avg 2.2 steals per game. Thomas was at 1.9 per game.
LEADERSHIP THOMAS
John can dunk he did alot in messing around but said he wouldn't in a game.
I watched several Jazz games in person growing up and went to a few Jazz camps. I know how good he was. The problem is, so many ppl today don’t know anything about the game and think it’s all about dunking and launching 3-pointers from 30 feet out.
As for small players, check out spud webb and mugsey bogues.
To echo other comments, he was great in all areas, just not the All time leader.. categories.. This Vid shows a bit of what he was like.. It was so fun back then. Only Jersey I ever bought was his.
I was into basketball in the early 90s though I'm an Englishman. Jordan and Stockton stood out for me from the rest
Stockton is a 🐐 for sure!
Stockton #1 in career steals with 3265 and 2nd place is Kidd at 2684. 581 behind Stockton. In assists: Stockton #1 at 15806 with Kidd #2 at 12091. 3715 behind Stockton
Stockton is NBA all time steals leader. Not even close.
more than " not athletic" he was born with a body that didn't given him the best physical possibilities so he was doing what he could with what he had he simply pushed his "normal" body to the best he could physicaly! see him more like that, he was clearly not shaquille o'neil physicaly but what he didn't had in body he did it in technic and willpower!
John 💯
So underrated!!!.!
You don't play in the 80s and 90s NBA for 20 years! lead in Assists AND Steals without supreme athleticism!
Jumping is not he only way to define athletes, and yes Stocks had wheels!
Yoooo real talk John Stockton is the best point guard ever to play in the NBA 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
I would take John Stockton over Isiah Thomas. Stockton was one tough dude and had a better overall career than Isiah.
John Stockton doesn't care if he's overrated or underrated.
Lol well I would hope not! What’s your point
Stockton is the greatest pure point guard ever. Magic, West, and Curry are the greatest scoring point guards ever. Isaiah isn't even in the conversation really for best point guard cause who isn't picking Stockton, Magic, Curry, Pistol, or West over Isaiah...
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John Stockton was definitely the more clutch out of the duo.
Anyone who knows hoops goes Magic,John S., Isaiah,Kidd for pg
for the first question i pick johns stocktons, yes he was far from flashy but in is PG position i think they NEVER had a better one that him he was not flashy don't had impressive moves but he perfected the basis of a point guard to the core, he was not here to be seen he was here to make his team win ( to bad that his team only had " the mailman" as a very good player too, it's why for me the team lost everytime you can have a perfect brain if your limbs are weak you wont go far and utah only had one genius brain ( stocktons) and one good arm (malone)!
You can't look at a mix tape someone put together to get a clear picture of how someone played the game, you should watch entire games or series' to understand.
John is #1 in steals and Jordan is #3, both great players and pesky defenders
yes stocktons in the public eyes would be a dirty player, he i think had the mentality " all for the team" his goal was to make his team win and would do anything for that be it clean or dirty it's why i don't call him a "dirty" player ( even if he certainely was doing dirty things) but a PRAGMATICAL player "the result is what is important!" it's to why he was a perfect " familly man"!
i knew it before they said im from utah
thats funny stackton is the all time steals leader
I have always made the argument he belonged on the Dream Team. The last thing that squad needed was a shooting PG, they needed 2 assist guys. And they got the 2 best in Magic and John.
Was never a believer that Isiah belonged on the Dream Team over Stockton.
Now to John Stocktons fans he is overrated.He is easily the least physically talented of any of the great PGs. No hops, speed, or even great handles. He had good handles, efficient handles.
His shooting was so so and streaky, and his 3 point game, although sometimes effective, was not a major threat.
That being said, to the people who havent seen him, or arent fans of his, I find he is criminally underrated.
His consistency as a playmaker was as steady as the tides. Tenacity was comparable to Jordan. Toughness and mean streak elbows to rival the Pistons and Knicks. Vision was only in a league with Magic. Never seen a PG before or since that had floor awareness and vision that those 2 possessed. Uncanny, unnatural instincts.
Although was the slower player in a ton of matchups, was hardly ever a defensive liability. Most steals in NBA history kind of proves that.
What he lacked in size and athleticism he made up for in toughness and smarts.
For his era, and the era right before him, he was THE prototype for a PG. Magic was the freak, Stockton was possibly the purest PG to ever play.
His fans claim him as the all time PG, but hes not. Magic had freakish size, freakish talent, and had the vision and playmaking with it. But John is an easy 2nd in my eyes. The Chris Pauls and Isiahs, and whomever you choose to name, run distant 3rds in my book. Theres a PG tier of Magic and John. The rest can fight for supremacy on that 2nd tier.
As far as getting the most out of what God handed you, him and Iverson are the only 2 HOF players who come from that mold.
He was generational and overlooked for the most part. He was not exciting. He was not flashy. He has no ring based solely on the fact that Magic and Jordan played when he did.
But his game spoke volumes. If you have a kid who wants to be a PG, there are a few you would want them to watch to learn, to understand the position more. He is one of those few you would want them to witness.
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Zeke is a better talent than Stockton imo.
@@TheIcemanthomas my argunent was that alot of players are more talented, but none are better players. Jason Williams was more talented, not better. Gary Payton was more talented, but not better.
My argument pretty much agrees with you.
I remember the era and this is an extremely accurate statement
John
I cant understand that Stockton only averaged about 13 points per game, yet had a 52% 2 point and 38% 3 point average. He had to keep his shots at a low level?
He’s too unselfish. Like Steve Nash, I always thought if they took more shots, their teams would probably win more games.
I'll take Stockton every time against Isaiah. The choice is Stockton, Magic, or The Big O.
John Stockton
Stockton
Stockton was a better passer and a defender than Isiah. Stockton is the career assists and steals leader.
Isiah was a better scorer.
Isiah Thomas all defensive teams 0. John Stockton 5 times. 55th in all time scoring considering all he did is pass is not a bad stat either. 2 20-20 games vs Magic Johnson in the playoffs. He was as clutch as he wanted to be.
Stockton over Thomas all day
I think Isiah gives you more, but Stockton was great.
@HenDawgz Thanks U For Watching John Stockton & Please Watch More Players That Played In Michael Air Jordan Era. I Have Been Watching BBall Since 1986 & Played Ball All My Life.
Now Too Many People Say MJ Is Overrated. He Won A Lot Against Nobodies Lmao. Because They Under Rates His Competition. These Same People Under Rate Their Skills, Talents, Defense, Athleticism, & Their BBall I.Q.
Because They Never Or Barely Watched These Great Players Play The Game Of Basketball.
HenDawgz U Just Watched Some Clips Of Stockton Your Eyes Tells U That John Was No Joke. Please Watch More Videos Of Other Great Players In MJ's Era They Deserves A Lot Of Respect.
Honestly Players Today To Me Are Not More Athletic Or Just Equal To In Most Areas. Most Players Today Are Better Trained With Their Balance & Footwork On Offense.
The Only Big Difference In Today NBA Is The Spacing Of Players Defending Other Players. As Well The Spacing The Players Have Away From The Basket On The Court.
Keep Up The Great Commentary!!
Your Basketball Knowledge Is Getting Better By The Day. Also Kobe Was Definitely Clutch Lol
Thanks for this 💯💯💯
Non athletic...lol. incredibly athletic.
At one point Phil Jackson wanted to avoid facing Utah Jazz especially in 1998 because they swept Lakers that had four All-Star players (Shaq, Afro Kobe, Eddie Jones, and Van Exel) in the previous playoff series. Jazz’s system and intelligence would outsmart a lot of teams, even my 1998 Bulls to an extent. Of course MJ was a bit too much for them at the end. 😅 I’m 38 and I’ve seen the entire NBA in 90s.
I would never choose Isaiah over Stockton ever. I'd take Curry first over Isaiah.
Stockton was 5x all nba defense 2nd team. Don’t see any all defense for Thomas.
Overrated
1 Magic
2 Stockton
3 Isaiah
Magic Johnson was wayyyy better PG than John Stockton. I do believe he would be top 3 or 4 though.... Im not saying he wasnt deadly. But you gotta give that cake to the silky smooth Magic
John Stockton. Stockton definitely was the better defender. Look at the stats, look at the video. No disrespect to Zeke, he was good as well, but I feel Stockton was a little bit better defender.
I grew up watching those guys first thing after I started watching those guys everyone else except one or two others you know I lost interest in watching he just wasn't fun those two could play an outrun people always showed up and they were just fun I'm great combination both great it players independently but together they were f****** almost unbeatable
John Stockton every fucking time. No I've was better