The New "King" of Camp Chairs Has a BIG Problem
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
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*Check out ADOTEC* and all their cool gear including the Hikers Helper: geni.us/SHSrML
Hikers Helper: geni.us/Kse6x
*The Chairs:*
Nemo Moonlight Elite: geni.us/0UFAZyB
Helinox Chair Zero: geni.us/LR2hUH
REI Flexlight Air: geni.us/t5kqG
I just bought one this weekend for $134 at REI on sale Saturday. I took it on a hike Sunday and really like it as I made my hot coco. And REI's return policy makes it easy if the comfort isn't right.
I own both chairs. The Helinox Chair Zero and the Nemo Moonlight Elite. For reference I'm 6' and roughly 200 lbs. I noticed the same thing when sitting in the Moonlight Elite the first time I sat in it. It's not uncomfortable for me (doesn't dig into my armpits but I think that's because of my longer torso) but I definitely noticed that lack of a taller back. I haven't used the Moonlight Elite enough to determine if I prefer the Chair Zero but I would say the Moonlight Elite is definitely superior in materials and construction. You can easily tell that the Moonlight Elite is a more "solid" chair. When I wiggle around it doesn't feel like the hub is moving like on my Chair Zero. Plus as he said in the video the Moonlight Elite is $180 and an REI exclusive right now but the Chair Zero is now $159.95 and the ground pad is $34.95. so combine that together and the Moonlight Elite is actually cheaper and weights less than the Chair Zero with the ground sheet by a few ounces. When I measured the Moonlight Elite with its case it was 1.39 lbs (22.3 oz) while the Chair Zero w/ the optional ground sheet was 1.46 lbs (23.4 oz). Just wanted to let everyone know. Thanks for coming to my TED talk 😂
Appreciate the input 🙏
@@2649 No problem!
This is exactly what I thought.
This has to be the first video ever where the sponsored ad is more interesting than the product the video is for. XD
What I love most about this video is what you taught serendipitously: having competition that works really hard at making a better product does not mean that it is the best product for everyone. It truly is important to educate ourselves as consumers about what the options are, and then actively "try before you buy" on things that stretch your individual budgetary constraints. If it costs more than what you would 'not even notice' if you lost, then shop wisely. This is also why physical stores are so much more important than online-only ones.
I'll say what the real problem is with both of these chairs.............. the PRICE. Who in the heck is paying nearly $200 for these chairs????? When I bring a chair, it's my Big Agnes Skyline UL chair that I paid exactly $79.99 for. Heck, I almost bought the Chair Zero when REI had it on sale for $60. None of these manufacturers should be asking more than $100 for these chairs, they are simply gaffing the public.
I dont know, honestly $150 does not seem that crazy to me. I bought my Helinox One like six years ago for just under $100 back then and still consider it my best hiking purchas all these years later.
@@carsandtools It likely cost them about 10 dollars to make. The camping gear industry have a crazy high markup. Just because the product last a long time, and you are happy about it, doesnt mean it's not over priced.
@@primal5435 The MSRPs are high but considering the regular deals, they are alright. I got both my Hellinox One chairs for $70 each and that is great value IMO. And I'd pay twice for half the weight. To be honest I didn't know the Zero existed, as I got the One so long ang I don't really follow the camping gear market closely. I also got the ripoff Amazon ones just to have in the car for camping and whatnot. They were $30 and it showed - visibly cheaply made, a lot heavier and the fabric on one one torn within 6 months.
The Big Agnes and the original Nemo Moonlight are roughly the same price in Germany.
I got my Moonlight even cheaper on a discount, roughly 20 bucks cheaper then the Big Agnes and the quality completely blows it out of the water
Loved the original moonlite, and now love the moonlite elite. Chairs can be like shoes, unique feel to every individual. Find what is comfortable for you and own it. I think it is great to have another lightweight option on the market, it pushes innovation to do so.
The hiker’s helper massage tool looked pretty darn cool
I cant help but feel like that little reclining gadget is just more tech to go wrong and fail lol. I think the more simple and sturdy chair makes more sense. Great video!!
really appreciated the comparison of seat heights!! not sure that I have seen that in any other reviews, so I really appreciate it!
Clear and specific analysis. Bravo.
( 5:56 *exacerbates, not exasperates, although I’m sure it exasperated you when the chair dug in to your flesh. 😊 Apologies if I’m being pedantic, but I thought you might want to know. ✌🏻)
Thanks for your great gear reviews, they’re always very helpful. 🙂👏🏻
I just used this Nemo chair over Memorial weekend and had the same back issues. I also don't like how low it had me to the ground. Made it difficult to get out of the chair. Returned it for the Big Agnes Skyline chair for it's better seat height.
That Hiker's Helper is really interesting! Time for an upgrade over the old cork massage ball
FYI those prices on their website are in Canadian. It’s only about $40 US
That roller for your trekking pole though!!!
I got one a few months ago and it's been a game changer! It's really helped with my husband's plantar faciitis!
Totally buying a hiker’s helper thats brilliant!!
I’ve had the same issue, although just the regular Moonlite, exchanged it for the 0 and it was great
Top notch production quality on this one!
Sounds like a trip to REI is in order to test sitting in one before ordering and see how I fit. Was close to clicking buy but they're in stock locally so it'll be easy. Thanks!
I was really excited about this chair when it released. I had purchased the moonlight elite and had the same experience, in addition to what Steven said the back of the chair arches down about 3-4 inches when sitting in the chair which yields even less back height to this chair ontop of already being a bit smaller/lower chair. For me this negative of the moonlight elite and a few others the Helinox zero and REI flexlite air still just makes more sense for me. I ended up going with the flexlite after my return.
I'm so jealous of the groundsheet acting as the case. I'm thinking about trying to rig something up so I can use my helinox ground sheet in the same way
good video and info - very solid
Good clear analysis
Great to bring in other reviewers opinion in the video. One thing is to say "this is just my opinion and experience" another is to really demonstrate that people perceive it differently.
I’m 6’6” and sat in both at the store. While I liked Nemo’s adjustability, I preferred the Helinox for both seat height and length.
I just got a pair of Elites for me and my wife. I find it super comfortable. My wife on the other hand has the same problem as you Steven. It digs into her back.
Theres one problem I think you’ll see more as time goes by. The reclining mechanisms on one of my chairs is constantly sliding back. Like the cord is too slick. I go from fully upright to full recline in about a minute. It’s super annoying! I’m not sure if it will improve over time but I think a locking mechanism would make it much better.
Yes, everyone buy theirs at REI and return if you don't like. That way I can buy your returned one at a huge discount in the Re/Supply section haha
I just got mine a couple days ago and I find it somewhat uncomfortable as well. I'm 6'3" 230lbs and in the weight room and jiu-jitsu 3-4 times a week. I'm a big guy and my back is super broad. It digs in a bit. Still a great chair and I'll use it rather than sitting on the ground but it's not as amazing as some make it out to be.
Only for your size. For me, it is the most comfortable chair I've used. It's the GOAT now.
6'-3", 190lbs here...I find the Moonlight great and comfortable even after extended sitting, but I have only the REI Flexlite to compare it to. TO each his own, we all have different pressure points that may or may not be activated in various positions and on different chairs
Your videos are so incredibly helpful and thought out, I appreciate the testing you put these products through and the insights you give, especially acknowledging when things work best for you but everyone may not feel the same way. I have found some incredibly helpful gear from your videos, thank you!
Still enjoy my Big Agnes Mica Basin chair. It's heavier than the Helinox but WAY more comfortable.
I haven't tried this one yet, but I've sat in several Helinox and REI backpacking chairs and didn't find any of them terribly comfortable. I wound up getting a Rock Cloud that is quite comfortable to sit in, sits higher, and is more stable than these chairs while costing a half-to a third of the price. But it IS twice as heavy, coming in around 2 lbs. So I only bring it when I know I'm going to be spending more time kicking around at camp.
I've used the zero's groundsheet as a wrap for my chair for years. I don't put my chair inside my pack, so the dirt has never been an issue.
I made a footprint with an empty birdseed bag and some duct tape. Several folks have posted how to make one.
Do you have link to these folks who make the footprints ?
I tryed this chair last time I was at REI! Was surprised how comfortable it was!! The fact it comes with ground sheet is great. Still not gonna get it, my helinox zero with ground sheet will continue working!! Haha
I bought the Moonlight Elite…and returned it. I’m 6’0”, 170 lbs. and it’s fine when I first sit in it. But any extended sit and I start feeling the edges of the chair start digging in the underside of my thighs.
I liked the height it was at. The back seems high enough. My other big complaint was when you would cinch up the adjustable back for say, kitchen work…it drew the seat closer together and made my knees wanna pinch in (which is counterintuitive when you wanna work with stuff like a camp stove on the ground in front of you.
I really wanted to like it. The build quality is fantastic. But the two gripes I had were big enough for me to return mine to REI.
Nice review.
This is a cool chair. I have both it and the Big Agnes.
First, let me say I’m 6’1 and weigh 245…ish . Lol . I sat in this chair today at REI, and I had the same thought. Its was way too low in the back and was uncomfortable immediately. It’s pretty low to the ground as well. A positive is the build quality seemed very good and well worth checking out. I just don’t think it’s great for bigger folks. I think it’s a super cool chair that will most likely fit most. I recommend trying it out if possible.
I really wanted to love this chair! I recently used my REI 20% off member coupon, making it the same price as the Helinox, and hoped it would work for me like it did for your wife. I’m 5’2” and around 140 for reference. However, I had the same problem with it digging into my back and also into the bottom of my thighs. I think it’s because the materiel is stiff or ‘sharp’ like you mentioned plus it doesn’t have any give so it squeezes.
I ended up returning it for the Helinox chair zero and it is so much more comfortable!
Sat in one in REI. Bought one and when I gave it some more sit time at home…I had the sharpness in the thighs as well. Didn’t really have a problem with the back. But the thigh pain made me return it.
Recently found your page and have enjoyed the content allot. Was curious if you've ever considered trying to put together load outs based on stores (walmart, target, bass pro shop, etc.). The reason this sparks my interest is the fact that the gear is there to be tried and/or examined vs the leap of faith of buying online.
I’ll deal with the REI shortcomings for the on sale price. $53.
This review was super helpful. I have a broad back thank god I ran into this video man thanks again
I’m 5’1” and 110lbs soaking wet. I, too, found the Nemo chair to be less comfortable. I even went back to REI a second time to sit in it again after watching Dan’s video. But the results were the same. It’s nice to hear I’m not the only one.
That massager is genius! It’s definitely going on my wish list.
Thank you for your honest review on both chairs. I'm currently in the market for a new bikepacking chair that's lighter and smaller (packaging) than my original REI chair (which is comfortable but bulky and heavy) and these are the two that peak my interest. At first glance, I had leaned over to the Moonlight Elite with its recliner adjustment and footprint but after watching your review on how it works and feels, I've come to the conclusion that the Helinox is the new chair for me. Not a big guy but I don't like the thought of being "swallowed in" by the chair and the armpits pinch may or may not be a problem for me. Don't need the footprint since I don't want the dirt and mud when it's time to pack up and the price difference between the two chair was the selling point. Looks like I'll be toting the Helinox on RAGBRAI this year. Cheers, mate!!!
Speaking of foam roller tho that’s why I still carry my Nalgene because it does both roller and water holder and it has never broken on me
They should print that massage roller in TPU, or rather, with a TPU casing for better comfort :) It will still be firm, but a bit more comfortable
Outstanding review.
I am 6’3” very broad shouldered and I just visited the REI in Tustin to check out this problem. Conclusion …the sides of the chair back were NOT digging into my upper back at all…not the slightest discomfort…so I’m not sure whether this is a problem for people with shorter torsos, or what? Thanks for your review.
Amazon, et al.: Here's a light 2.2 lb backpacking chair for $35
Market: That's wonderful. Utilitarian, but awesome. Any way to make this lighter?
Helinox: Here's an ultralight chair that's only 1 lb!!!
Market: That's amazing. I love it. But, dang, $150 for a chair? Anyone else have a solution?
Nemo: Yes, we do! Here's a largely me-too product that's $180!
Market: [sigh]
REI: here's a chair that's cheaper and lighter than both of those, goes on sale regularly for as little as $50
Thanks for showing the difference in heights and seat depths. I'm short and light weight so I can still learn what might fit me by seeing what taller and larger people say is too short for them haha
Hmmm... I am definitely taking some 50LB bank-line and tying on each end to the poles of my (El Cheepo) Naturehike YL08 chairs just like that adjustor string. Maybe I'll need to drill a tiny hole or file a small notch under the vinyl caps... I'll measure the longest needed to include the two end knots and a tautline hitch I'll put near each seat front pole to make it adjustable while sitting. Add a little figure 8 so the line cant adjust past the end of the line too...twi in fact to always leave a tag end. That adjustability is a GREAT idea. TY! you got the wheels turning.
PS Save the packing for anything you may return after retail tryouts.
@mylifeoutdoors and for those of you that are commenting on the massage roller. I am intrigued by this product to replace the cork ball I bring with me. Can anyone who has tried it answer something for me? How do they mitigate the risk of bending your trekking pole while using it or is that a risk and it would need to be used with minimal force or only with hands immediately next to the roller?
I've been using one for over a year now on both aluminum and carbon poles. No issues with the poles bending at all. The areas where you need the most pressure (quads, hamstrings, calves, hips) by default you will use a closer grip. While working your back, neck shoulders, arms etc you don't need much pressure for the roller to work. Unfortunately I have Peroneal Tendonitis and some minor tears in my ankle and Plantar Fasciitis. This roller has truly helped me overcome the muscle tension caused by the imbalances that my injuries have created.
My body puts a real load on any chair and so if a camp chair has feet that end straight down, I have found that the ends of the chair legs will puncture ground sheets or just poke into the earth as far as they can. I have to use the chair that is u shape at the bottom so that shape takes the pressure instead of single legs sticking down like puncture poles.
See, someone else knows about single legs poking downward and this kit has some kind of solution to that.
Not a fan of chairs! I always carry the Zlite Sol closed foam pad. I cut it in half so it’s 36” 7.2oz and use it for so many things, ie, sit pad, yoga pad, cooking pad, star gazing pad, under my Thermarest Xlite inflatable for more warmth, as a wedge to even out tent site, wind shield for stove, and as a dump pad for all my gear when I unload my backpack once we get to our campsite. Very multipurpose piece of gear and lighter weight than a chair!
Felt exactly the same way when I sat in it at the store, sticking to my Helinox (which is obnoxiously priced, WTF..)
the king of camp chair is bear canister. its sturdy, it carries your food, and it actually weights about the same as those camp chairs and dont occupy extra space. if you are going to bear country you would be carrying one anyway.
Nothing beats Mountaingear trekking pole chair and seat pad combo for weight and comfort anyway
I really want you to look at the osprey levity backpack. I just watched your last super light video and they make a 45 and a 60l all under 3 pounds. I have the 45 and swear by it. Please please please see this
Hot take but is guess it is subjective. I like what Nemo is doing here.
I’ll keep chillin’ in my crazy creek. Hasn’t failed me once
Love my Nemo.
Love my Helinox chair zero, but Devin might have sold me on grabbing a Big Agnes Skyline UL chair.
I have all three chairs - the Helinox Chair Zero, the Big Agnes Skyline UL, and the new Nemo Moonlite Elite. I absolutely LOVE my Big Agnes Skyline UL chair. It’s a little heavier, but much more comfortable. It sits higher off the ground than the Helinox Chair Zero. I really wanted to like the Nemo Moonlite Elite, but it digs into the sides of my thighs painfully. I’m going to return it to REI.
@@ValkyrieHikes i was hoping to upgrade from my skyline ul to the nemo elite but the nemo i got from rei came with a broken shock cord that holds the poles together. after going back and forth between the 2 the skyling ul was much more comfy. id say if big agnes made some adjustments to the skyline it could be just as light as the helinox and the nemo. if the seat material on the skyline was like the nemo and they shaved an inch off the height id say that would bring it down. i might try modifying one on my own.
Chairs. Cool.
I worked at REI and even with my employee discount, i wouldnt pay that much for a chair.
I strongly believe that the Nemo Moonlight elite offers more although it is a little bit heavier ( I would buy the Nemo )
Interesting attempt at a better chair for backpackers. I really enjoyed the mention of the device for muscle rolling. That's what I attribute to being 23-years injury-free. I've made several videos on the topic. However, I'll stick with my Nalgene bottle which also serves as my water bottle, hot water bottle, coffee/ drink cup, and cold soaking bottle if I go stoveless.
How do you use the same vessel both for drinking water and cold soaking? When your food is soaking you just don't drink? 😵💫
@@dustyoldhat, great question! I also carry a Smartwater bottle as well as a 2+ L platypus reservoir (1 oz) when I want to stock up. Usually I'm cold soaking at the end of the day and I typically camp near a water source so having drinking water isn't a problem. I can also roll my quads and calves for injury prevention when I get to camp while still cold soaking. Note, drinking water after cold soaking can have residual "flavor". Haha!
I had the same tihng happen with the Helinox. :(
I'm still a big fan of my el-cheapo Lacal chair. Yes, it's one of Amazon's Chinese knockoffs, but it's barely over a pound, cost me $30, and sits nicer than either the REI or the Zero. I bought a second one just to hang onto in case I ever break the first, but it hasn't happened yet.
Those hoops on the base pad for the new elite look like they want to be wrapped around the leg before being placed into the pocket. 🙂
Cascade from Costco suits my needs ......and I'm a big heavy man
big agnes skyline is still the best imo yeah its heavy but your not sitting in the dirt and its really comfortably
The fact that the Nemo has aluminum hubs instead of plastic is a point in its favour. I've sat in a chair zero and I didn't like it, it felt flimsy like it was gonna break. Unfortunately the Nemo isn't available here yet so I can't compare them.
The Chair Zero feels like its gonna break, but it never does. It's awesome.
I already added the massage roller to my shopping list $38 2.22 oz. Then I finished watching the video. Thanks for sharing the new stuff. Heavier than a cork ball BUT attaches so nothing to lose AND the trekking pole becomes part of the tool for reaching back, shoulder, etc.
Just picked one up and unfortunately have to agree… I wanted so badly to love this chair and it is still a great chair, but my Chair Zero is much more comfortable.
Nice video. I carry a stool (it’s both a stool and a toilet). I can’t see carrying a chair and a stool. I can’t convert the chair into a toilet
Why do RUclips hosts ignore the REI flexlite? It’s lighter, more comfortable and cheaper than the Helinox! I owned both and sold my Helinox.
I find it uncomfortable, I listed it in my “gear to avoid” video. but ironically it’s not as uncomfortable as the moonlight.
That’s interesting. Your issue with the moonlight is what I experienced with the helinox.
Anyway, I think you did a great job reviewing the moonlight. Very informative and thorough. Cheers!
Hopefully it doesn’t take a year of use to figure out the chair is uncomfortable. Try it at home and if it isn’t comfortable, take it back in new condition. It shouldn’t take a year or extended time in the field to make the decision.
just figured out I was setting up my chair zero wrong like a year ago. 😂
I carry a little pocket-sized foldable stool, for instant sitting and a single hammock [just a net] for more comfortable... I never trusted those flimsy chairs to let myself relax on them...
ADOPTEC 9x9 tarp for $549! Expensive!
I think they are in Canadian funds... so $400 USD. Pretty decent for Dyneema
I bought this chair at REI and tried it out in the store as well - and it felt just fine for that brief period. Brought it home and watched tv while using it for about an hour. For the first 5 minutes the chair felt ok but the comfort steadily declined from there. I am 6’1” and 245 lbs and have determined that them bottom corners digging into my hips is a real problem. I am returning the chair. It is definitely NOT the king of camp chairs AND the weight of the chair plus the groundsheet is more than advertised on the chair’s packaging.
I owned a Nemo chair and agree that it did dig in at the upper back but the worst issue was the cups that the frame snaps into. On my chair, the frame broke through the cups after only using it on a weeklong trip, which made the chair completely useless, and more annoyingly, it was extra bulky and weight that I had no use for yet had to carry for the rest of the trip. I looked up reviews and noticed that this isn’t a rare issue so for that reason alone, I will not buy another with this design. A slightly heavier or bulkier chair that you can use beats a broken chair every time.
Crazy creek till i die!
The Nemo is an REI exclusive chair anyway so you can't get it anywhere else even if you wanted too....
I really like the hikers helper concept, unfortunately $55 is too high for me.
That’s in Canadian FYI. It’s only $40 US
I'm stunned you haven't snapped the legs off your Helinox treating them that way, they must be WAY stronger than I think. The pad that goes on the bottom should be included with the Helinox, to me it's essential but obviously you've gotten away with it!
My 4 year old jumped into my lap while I was sitting in my Helinox, bent the leg support poles. I used the chair for 6 more years before one of the poles broke. I contacted them to see if they would sell me replacements or at least point me towards a source; since I knew I was out of warranty. The customer service person said he would send me out a pair of poles to replace it. Didn’t even charge me shipping!
Wow! Excellent for sure! And good to know.
I'm in the "very large guy" club at 6'5"and 290 lbs, so ultralight chairs aren't my jam. I generally go out solo anyways, so i just sit in my hammock.
But that muscle massager is slick, that's going on the short list.
When you say quality, REI is never, ever the first thing that ever comes to mind. That out of the way, I agree, the chair digs into my sides as well, just below my armpits. It was so bad that I never even took it into the field and straight up returned it the next day. While the Helinox is, and probably will be my go-to chair for a long time, my biggest gripe is how it pinches the heck out of my hips. So much that if I sit for 30 minutes by a fire, I start to get a burning ache along the sides of my hips. I don't know if you or anyone else has experienced this, but for me, this is the biggest limiting factor of this chair. Recently, I purchased the Sea to Summit UL hammock and straps and have been using that between two trees as my place to go sit and lounge. Now, this won't work if I want to go sit by the water, or if I want to sit right by the fire, but for the other 80% of the time, I'll take the hammock over my chair any day.
always fun when the feet sink in and the plastic foot comes off under ground
Naturhikes new backpack seat is light comfortable and a quarter the price of these chairs.
Me with a big Agnes six
What a relief, no Temu sponcon here. Rather, promoting small business innovative cottage products by hikers for hikers. Thanks Steven.
Let me know when a 50 dollar option not weighing 3 pounds arrives
Chair comfort is entirely subjective. For all the talk about the Chair Zero being the king, I’ve never found it to be comfortable at all. The Chair Zero Highback is an entirely different story - for me it’s extraordinarily comfortable with very minimal weight or pack space penalties. The new Nemo is equal to that comfort for me. I’ve not experienced any of the pressure points mentioned in the video. I need a chair that keeps my head above my shoulders to avoid aggravating herniated discs. With the Nemo in the upright position, problem solved. The Chair Zero Highback naturally provides the support I need, but the Chair Zero makes me miserable. My advice is to go to an REI and sit in every chair they offer for as long as you can. Only you can make the determination as to what chair is best for you.
We were wondering how to reduce 10 grams to different equipment, but we were carrying a 1kg chair. It just seems like marketing to me. I don't see the point of it at all. I like to sit on the grass or a log...
I used to feel the same way until I sat in a friends chair. It makes a big difference. Now I cut weight other places so that I can bring a chair
Ill stick with my 30.00 but 4 pound chair.
Ya, this side down doesnt mean this side out.
$180 is a crazy price for what it is. You basically paying for the convenience. Still massively overprized.
The "King" of camp chairs, at least for this particular small and packable catagory, belongs to Big Agnes. I don't care about a little extra weight. I'm going for comfort. And Big Agnes has more comfortable and more stable options.