Why Mesh Base Layers Are Warmer Than Merino Wool
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- Опубликовано: 3 май 2024
- I learned about mesh baselayers from a recent video from @TheBearEssentials He does a much better job at explaining how and why mesh base layers work, so make sure to check out his video over here: • Why MESH is the WARMES...
Two other good videos about mesh base layers by @MidwestBackpacker and @GruntProof :
1. • Wool Mesh Base Layer
2. • Revolutionary Cold Wea...
Here is the Brynje Mesh Base Layer that I'm using (affiliate link) ➜ www.brynjeusa.com/ref/16/
In this video, I finally test my new mesh base layer. I've been testing it on and off since the end of November 2023, but in this video, I do a comprehensive test to compare it with synthetic and merino wool base layers. Not to spoil anything, but it turns out that mesh base layers actually are that good. I wonder why we aren't talking more about them?
Also, one point that I forgot to mention in the video, is that you should always wear them underneath another layer. So for example, if you wear a mesh layer underneath a merino wool one, you'll be able to deal with the lowest of temperatures.
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▼ TABLE OF CONTENTS
00:00 - Intro
00:33 - About mesh layers
00:55 - How they work
01:56 - Testing
02:51 - Synthetic test
04:40 - Merino test
06:08 - Mesh test
08:37 - Trail Goals
09:06 - Summary
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Here is the Brynje Mesh Base Layer that I'm using (affiliate link) ➜ www.brynjeusa.com/ref/16/
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So you're telling me that the Predator's mesh outfit actually makes sense and is practical?
Hey! Are you Latvian? familiar accent.
They just suck in the durability department for how expensive they are.
Brynje means chainmail
1: I think poor Aclima and their WoolNet and WorkNet products want to have a word here... 😏
2: A follow up could be testing base layers with structured surfaces, I think they can be a nice compromise.
I'm not a hiker, but I am a goth, and I've always been amazed at how warm mesh shirts are. Thanks for explaining why.
@@jamesmccaul2945 no king - just hi(gh) ;-)
Haha hell yea
i wore a lot of mesh in my party/raver days and same
Right? I learned this in the club during winter in the late 90’s/early 2000’s when you dance, sweat and then freeze. That’s why mesh is a staple and it’s versatile for hot weather. Also, people can say what they want about goths in summer but, it pays off in winter/cold climates.
This is the collab we didnt know we needed lol
I’m a cyclist and I’ve always had trouble staying warm due to poor moisture management which, frankly, isn’t something I’d ever heard of until a few months ago. I would ride up my favorite mountains and then be utterly freezing on the descent, even with the highest quality winter gear. Turns out I was overdressed. Lately I’ve been trying to be “comfortably cold”, which I think is a phrase that U.S. Marines use to describe the state you should be trying to achieve. Surprisingly it works.
With or without mesh?
@@roddas26 Actually being on topic would imply that I’m paying attention, right? The answer is: yes and no. My point was that I agree that the key is moisture management and I should have specified that some of my better experiments have been with mesh, but I’ve also used some high end cycling base layers that, while not mesh, are still full of dozens of holes across the back and armpits. I think mesh really might be the best, but those work pretty well too.
@@H457ur thanks for clarifying.
Cheers from New Zealand 🇳🇿
( also a life long cyclist)
One trick is to wear as little as possible while you're moving and generating a lot of body heat. Not only does that keep you drier by making you sweat less and making it easier for your sweat to evaporate, but when you stop moving and start to get cold you can put on your insulating layers and actually warm up.
@@futuresonex I think you’re right and I feel like something of an idiot for taking so long to figure that out. I spent my entire childhood and most of my teens in Guam and I never liked being cold, so I bundled up. The cold never stopped me from exercising but I was sometimes pretty miserable. Then I started to carry a change of base layer, socks and hat (fortunately, the climb I like best ends at a public building with a restroom and a heater), and found that I no longer had that problem. I discovered mesh when the algorithm fed me videos about it and a light bulb went off in my head. I expect that any quality layering system will work if you use it correctly and don’t let yourself get wet.
Mesh layer first, then merino wool layer. Now you've got the hot set-up!
Thinking the same... I dont have a flatlock sewing machine but I'm thinking to sew a layer of mesh on the inside of a merino wool baselayer shirt... Already have a bunch of mesh material I bought for other projects ....mesh bags
Yeah if it's -30° outside, in +5° it's way too much
@@Talking_Ed well thats why you dress in layers
@@jbbolts Yeah but waring 2 base layers in 5 degrees is insanity removing layers or not
Merino wool mesh layer! Would be a super quick knit.
When I was a child in the 1960s, men doing heavy work with occasional pauses, such as fishermen, dock workers (longshoremen in the USA) and coal delivery men wore "string singlets": mesh base layers, as they are now called. Old knowledge is being rediscovered. Modern textiles like polypropylene make these base layers even better than the old cotton or wool string singlets.
Old school knows! 👍
String vests were to go to for old miners in the village including my grandad
Thank you for that information Greg.
I'm trying to find more information on this. Do you know of any places with pictures?
I think we should stick with the natural fibres
When you need to finish your hike at 6pm but your job as a stripper starts at 7pm.
Just kidding! Thanks for the awesome video!
Lol 😂
0.0
As a Goth with a cold disposition, I can 100% say that mesh and other fishnet-like materials are solid insulators, even for those who aren't actively moving. I'm incredibly sensitive to the cold for reasons not even my doctors understand, and over the years of my adulthood where i was suddenly allowed to accessorize the way i wanted, I've found that just wearing gloves and tights of medium to fine fishnet nylon helps me stay warm during the winter! 10/10 would recommend.
Maybe look into dysautonomia. I am very cold intolerant too and have several conditions but we believe it’s the dysautonomia that is the ultimate cause.
Must get sweaty as balls during the summer though
maybe it's not a medical issue and you just have an acute awareness of your cold sensing nerves?
"as a goth" thanks for telling me you werent loved a child, LOL
@@ronmka8931 "thanks for telling me you werent loved a child, LOL" thanks telling me you like making fun of something another person enjoys and that you also weren't loved as a child, LOL
I first read about mesh base layers in "The Golden Book of Camping" about 50 years ago. There, they referred to the mesh as 'brynje'. I didn't know it was the brand but the book identified them as Norwegian. Thanks for the video.
Brynje is also the word for chainmail in norwegian, so the name of the base layer might be related to that as well?
It's a brand name, as I saw another video on her for them too. Can't find an alternative. Sold out.
@@maverickuncraft4881 That was the inference they made in the book as well where they termed it "a brynje", with a definite article. I know I've seen a few bad fantasy movies where it looked like they might have used them for chain mail. :-)
Similar in Swedish; the garment he was wearing in the video is called a "nätbrynja" - nät means net or mesh - or just brynja. The brand name is like making a sweater and calling the brand Sweater.
@@henrikw377 Yeah it gets a little confusing at some point. Though net clothes aren't called brynje in Norway today. We haven't really one consistent name on it though
One of the foremost benefits of mesh clothing is that it facilitates ventilation while providing insulation. Adjust your outer layer (under arm zips etc.) and you will avoid becoming sweaty in the first place.
Other benefits are pack volume and drying time. If you get it wet you can swing it around to dry it - it hardly holds any water to begin with.
Only real downside to synthetic mesh is that you will stink.
Merino mesh when
i use combo of synthetic base layer and merino t-shirt to prevent being stinky :D
@@haphazard1342 Brynje already makes a merino blend mesh baselayer.
I have the merino-blend layer, and it is amazing.
Mostly polyester that stinks so much. Polyproplyne and Nylon are not bad.
When I joined the military, it was near Australia's winter and we had two weeks in the bush later in our basic training. Two girls in my course turned up with mesh thermals which most of us had never seen before. Our instructor said that they were more effective than the thermals we'd all bought and he was right on the money.
Hot
In the Norwegian army, we also use mesh base layers
They didn't standardize your equipment?
@@AuxiliaryPanther Smart armies don't do that for the base layer. you do want uniform code, but the base layer isn't really visible. and different body types / skin types means different needs. pretty stupid to have your soldiers underperform, because half of them are cold, half are near a heat stroke and 1/3 has rashes distracting them from their duties.
@@beyondEV Sure. When I was in the Navy, we had the base layer T-shirt, then an optional mock turtleneck that provided a good extra layer beneath the uniform. Having choices and mandates are not mutually exclusive.
The best thing about mesh is how fast it drys. It retains the heat and drys faster. It’s always been a win for me.
55 years ago I remember my father who was in the Canadian military had white mesh base layers that were sleeveless. So the mesh base layer has been around for a long time. You might want to research mesh base layers in the military. Thanks for this video. It brought back some good memories and convinced me to acquire the mesh base layer. Very good RUclips channel…keep up the good work.
I remember buying a couple of "stripper shirts" for the purpose (from some company like Fredrick's of Hollywood, even!) but they were *cotton* mesh and never really made a noticeable difference. The ones worn by English explorers were similar but made from silk.
@@fyrchmyrddin1937 you are saying British explorers, the picture in the video at 0:35 is from the British Mount Everest expedition in 1953 wearing Brynje.
@@jbcool What I recall reading about were various Polar expeditions, which were generally earlier; I did this at least 30 years ago so it was print rather than Internet.
It's possible that these referenced what were essentially cheap knock-off versions of Brynje, However, I just did a quick search and found mention of "string vests" fulfilling the same purpose.
Use to wear them as a kid to work out in, never knew why it felt better till now- wish I hadn’t stopped
Fish net has been around as early 1900's For you young people Welcome to the world of us older folks. We have never stopped using fishnet. Fish net with a mid-layer light wool layer and a wind stopper jacket at 0C 32F and your fishnet is dry, and the wool is only slightly damp (Not wet) to the touch after a hard two hour bike ride.,. It is so easy to get sucked into the world of the Poly Pro new ideas.
Absolutely - our grandparents were no fools but made best use of the general principles of mesh, making good use of the materials they could get hold of. in my case these were hand knitted string vests- not exactly high fashion and I got a bit of ribbing from some of the Kids, but I was the warmest one !
Fish net tights you kinkey devil 😉😉
It goes way back further than 50 or 100 yrs. Pre industrial revolution hand knitted vests were around in the American war of independence to my knowledge. I know in cold areas hand grubbing potatoes 70 yr ago hessian sacks were altered to make a layer over vests, under a shirt, to work in days almost snowing as they bought the harvest in
I'm honored that a comment of mine made a cameo appearance in your video! That said, there is a reason the Norwegian military uses mesh as their base layer. It's super cool that I came across this. Thanks for the stellar content!
I "discovered" this technique 2 years ago, so I purchased a couple of vests from the UK. Over there they have always been know as "string vests". As a kid, I remember my Dad buying them for us. I never understood (at that age) the use of a vest "full of holes" in winter!!!
This is now my second winter using a string vest as a base layer, and I've found I tend to be drier, which helps me keep a more stable temperature. They only cost me about 7 GBP per piece.
In light of hearing about mesh base layers, I bought an inexpensive cycling mesh base layer. I didn’t want to invest in Brynje base layer, without trying something similar out first. I recently walked with a backpack weighing about 12 pounds, for about 8 miles in 18 degrees F (-7.7 degrees C) temperatures wearing only a mesh base layer only covered by a lightweight short-sleeved cycling jersey (the type with a ventilation zipper) with cycling arm warmers. I also had my standard gloves and a warm hat. It was actually perfect. I did feel a little chilled at the onset of the walk, but once I had gotten warmed up I never sweated, the mesh trapped in enough air so that I didn’t feel cold, but didn’t trap the sweat so I never got wet. I also used this same gear set to cycle at relatively high intensity (about 17-20 mph or 27-32 kph) with similar results, I kept warm without getting sweaty. I think I might save up for Brynje mesh base layer and try it mountaineering this spring.
What brand did you choose for your inexpensive net base layer
@@cortez1030 I got a Darevie cycling shirt. I am normally a size medium or large for most brands (I’m about 190 lbs and 6 ft 2 inches), after reading some of the reviews that said it is a tight fit I got the xxl-xxxl shirt and it’s a good fit. This is not a lightweight base layer though it weighs about 8 oz. It’s effective at regulating my temperature in cold weather though.
@@cortez1030 I think I might make the leap and get a Brynje mesh top.
My testing of Cycling mesh shirts found that they kind of suck for things not cycling (darevie and castelli). They chafe like mad, have less good moisture protection, and are colder than actual fishnet layers.
As an example, I tried putting a wet shirt over cycling mesh and over fishnet (both were mostly polypropylene).
The fishnet provided a deeper air gap and less skin contact area. As a result it was only a little damp. The cycling mesh was very uncomfortable, but an improvement over just the wet shirt.
We use mesh as a base layer in the army in Norway as well! And the few times I have gone for a full wool layer instead of the mesh I have regretted it instantly! Mesh is awesome!
Regretted it how? Does it hold on to moisture a lot or...?
You "forgot" about 3 points:
1. (As mentioned by others) there exist a merino version too. Use merino wool mesh on slow multidays (skiing/hiking). The polypropylene is for high activity like running, biking, skiing, and you have to wash it after every use. The Merino wool version I never wash.
2. You can layer these mesh layers. In the winter I usually use two layers under the outer shell.
3. (and most important) all the advantages you mention are true, but the most important is that the mesh offers very few contact points. Even if you sweat like a pig you will feel a dry feeling, or at least a dryish feeling.
Brynje is for me the best brand. Aclima is a copycat, but works. The rest of the "mesh" product in other brands are not really mesh in the same way. This is the bread and butter for walking in winter conditions in the wilderness in Norway, and it works extremely well. I don't understand why this is not in every through hikers set up.
The shirt you picked out is at least one size too big for you. It should sit tight on your body. You lose some of the effects.
yeah I know, it's definitely a size too big.
There is also a Finnish brand called Svala which is similar polypropylene mesh and it's also silver ionised making it antibacterial. The treatment penetrates to the core of the fibres before they are spun into yarn, ensuring that the antibacterial properties will not be lost during washing.
Thanks!!
He specifically mentioned the contact points though
Aclima existed 40 years before Brynje, calling it copycat is a bit harsh
Nice video. Two other Norwegian brands that make mesh and sell mesh is Devold and Aclima. Aclima is my favorite brand for anything wool and mesh, i think its the brand with the best quality.
After hiking before you put on a second layer, you should take of the mesh and shake it for a few seconds in the air/wind.
This will dry it out and it works really well whether is below 0°c or above
Dahlie makes also wool mesh shirts. In Finland we have Svala, but they make only polypropene ones.
Aclima was the one who makes the new nordic military mesh underwear.
@@Ahex75 I was, recently when i went to change my mesh (Netting) they have acquired a new brand that's 100% wool. Brand name is not on the garment so I don't know who took over the contract. Only thing I know is that it sucks compared to the Aclima and Brynje. Got like 6-7 sets if I scavenge trough my house xD
❤ thank you
Ive used Brynje for decades. It is NOT just for cold weather! In a hot climate with lightweight layering it is equally superb!
Chris K
I'm 62. Never heard of this before. Thanks for the info. Awesome! You learn something new every day.
BackpackingLight here in the States has been discussing mesh for several months. I found a closeout shirt from
Eberlestock for their mesh (which is very similar to Brynje) and have been testing it the past few weeks. I did a 4 mile hike last week in sub freezing temps and snowing with an alpaca mid layer and a wind jacket and stayed perfectly warm and dry the entire time. The jacket was just to keep the falling snow from soaking the alpaca. When I got back home and removed the layers my skin was dry to the touch.
So far I’m a big fan of the mesh and will likely keep using it for the near future.
Looks like Eberlestock no longer has anything mesh in their catalog.
@@dekcarc yeah, I don’t think they had much luck with it, hunters probably saw it as goofy. They were on close out when I got mine, only $20.
Interesting. A comment by 'Nordic93' mentioned two alternatives to Brynje. They are Devold and Aclima. So if Eberlestock has discontinued mesh gear, no worries.
Where did you get the alpaca mid layer? Those are supposed to be difficult to obtain, and their fur is supposed to be perhaps the warmest of any animal.
Been using Brynje the past 3 years with absolute success. I wear them exclusively in cold conditions where a base layer is needed.
Aclima is another brand that makes mesh baselayer from merino wool and if I’m not wrong Brynje has also a merino wool mesh base layer
They also have the crazy double-layered version! On the inside theres the mesh, and on the outer its a semi thick merino wool baselayer. I bought it by mistake, as they are way too warm for most activities and seasons. I dont camp in february in Norway :D
Man, i never knew about mesh base layers like that one. Ive been rocking cheap waffle thermals because the waffle helps move air and create air pockets. I hate poly because it squeezes too tight and irritates my hair follicles. Which, comfort matters on a long hike. Im so glad you posted this.
Wow, who (of a certain age) would have thought that the humble British String Vest would re-emerge called a mesh base layer ?!
Ninks?
anybody could have thought about that considering there's absolutely nothing weird calling a layer made of mesh material a" mesh layer"
Pretty sure mesh existed before the British empire
When i was in the military school i used a mesh base layer from my dad, was his base layer when he was a conscript 50 years ago, in the Argentinean Army was called "Ballenera" the meaning is whaler because was used by the sailors in the past. And also we used a scarf made from the same mesh called "Sudadera" and was useful even for camouflage.
I went on a crazy full day hike a few months ago in -10 Celsius and wore only a thick puffer and an Under Armour compression top. I had the puffer unzipped for half the hike and stayed really warm. Any sweat would evaporate as soon as I'd unzip the jacket, then I could zip it again if needed. It was very surprising, it turns out that staying dry is more important than trapping heat in the long run. Your body constantly generates excess heat anyway as you hike, you don't need to trap it all.
I appreciate the amount of hard work you put into this video. After watching this, I’m definitely going to invest in a mesh bass layer for my upcoming thru hike of the A.T.
One of my favorite cycling base layers is a mesh merino wool base layer. Combo of fabric and mesh pattern does great. I use a two layer only system - one base layer (based on temperature), one jersey or jacket on top. I’ve used this down to 28° quite comfortably.
I hunt moose in the northern Norwegian mountains. It is very wet and the hike up to reach our posts is extremely tough, but after that, when we reach our posts it is cold, wet and windy. Every member of our team uses these mesh shirts.
I am using mesh base for years and I love it!
- It is warm because of the small air pockets between your skin and the next layer.
- It is very light compared to other types.
- It draws the moisture away from your skin into the next layer. Dry feeling always!
Though it has a few negative points:
- It absolutely requires a good next layer over it. A fleece or a good synthetics. The next layer _absolutely must_ be capable to absorb the moisture. Yet another layer is required if you need to stop the wind.
- If pressed too tight, the mesh can be "printed" into your skin. Not sure if it's bad, but the texture on the skin sometimes looks funny when you take the mesh off. (For the same reason you probably wouldn't like to be sleeping in it. )
- It looks too "sexy" to the point you may not like to wear it in public without a next layer. Whereas a good "normal" base layer looks generally OK. Well, anyway there is no point to wear the mesh alone.
- It is rare to find and it is expensive as compared to the amount of material used.
This being said, I use mesh as a base layer in light conditions or in sport. But in real cold weather or with not enough motion involved, I'd rather use it as a "preliminary" layer under another light base layer. Best!
Thanks for doing such a grueling test! Never heard of these before. I liked hearing that they keep you comfortable in a cooler indoor environment. Great tip! 👍
In the US, the "Defeet Un D shirt" is well known in cycling. It fits tight and boosts the warmth of your other base garment. It works for any activity, even under dress clothes. Defeet also has a great wool sock, the Woolie Boolie, that is better than many other hiking socks.
I have Brynje set for maybe ten years now and it definitely works best from all other sets i used (and used a lot of them). Especially well it works for sleeping in a cold. Big boost if there's another base layer on top of it to seal net holes air pockets, maybe even better than just thin fleece.
I have one of those as a base layer for winter cycling and I love it
While deployed to Norway, we observed the Norwegian soldiers wore fishnets as a base layer. I traded for a set and let me tell you, just wearing the fishnets and waterproof parka was able to keep me warm while doing moderately physical tasks. Brynje is a great company to buy these.
It has been used for decades. It has even featured in some old American outdoor books. Why did Americans stop using it is anyone's guess, but I'd say it was for ease of production on solid base layers. Today you can pay close to $100 for a mesh shirt but as low as $5 for a poly shirt. Mesh works by keeping hot air next to your skin but it allows the water vapor to go through to your second layer, not your first.
I've been using a 60/40% wool/synthetic mesh and I love it. So easy to air out sweat and gives a really good insulation, it's perfect for the climate in my part of sweden.
Thank you for all this testing! Very interesting review!
i love it when my multiple interests align. Thanks for giving me inspiration to knit my own mesh top from merino wool and nylon as i could use the help with both the sweating and the cold!
Don't forget that the fleece not necessarily stops the wind. Thanks for the test
Good video! In the US, Wiggy's sells fishnet base layers. I just bought a set a couple of weeks ago and used them last weekend. Seemed to work as advertised. The concept is sound.
I can tell a lot of work went into being as thorough as possible, love this!
one of the best videos I have seen in a long time. thanks
Very interesting video. The weave definitely matters. Patagonia makes a heavier mesh base layer from merino and capilene. Some people wear it as a base layer and as a sweater. One reviewer didn't like it because unless you can stop the wind it's not going to be very warm but he may not have understood how to layer it. The layering is a little different.
The propper way to dress, especially in a cold climate is a mesh base layer, and possibly a woll baselayer on top if its really cold, combined with a wind proof and water resistant outer layer (while walking). Usually its better to put on a marino woll baselayer when you stop moving, and another woll layer on top if its really cold (all underneath the wind and water resistant layer). Synthetic weave is not something I'd wear for long hikes, especially if I'm expecting to take breaks in between. this is because unlike woll, which retains some of its insulating capabilities even when it gets wet, synthetic weave and coton both literally suck heat out of your body when they get even slightly wet.
The mesh layer is aactually also nice when its warm, as it alows sweat to evaporate from your skin, thereby cooling you down.
Very well done! Excellent demostration, both in presentation and preparation. Nice explanations and active involvement of the audience! I dont hike much anymore but i am a sailor, everything you mentioned about hiking is done by a sailor, although the activity level is less, at any moment it can go to life and death. So having the right equipment is essential, not only for comfort but it can quickly change to become a life saver! Thanks!
Mesh layers also generate a lot more friction! It works really well for continued movement as movement in general causes friction. The mesh with its larger surface area helps make even more friction to keep you warm. That’s why knitted items are better in general. They have the slight advantage of having more surface area to rub and create that friction (through the holes from the loops of knitting) and also being a seemingly tightly woven garment. You can increase that friction by changing even the structure of the knit by doing a body hugging structure like 2x2 ribbed structure. I would recommend anyone into optimizing their garments for specific tasks to familiarize themselves with fiber properties and weave/ knit structures and garment construction as those are the primary things that drive garments effectiveness is specific tasks.
Lol i got a kinky one for a rave wich was outdoor and i was stunned how warm these things are =D , now i know.
My granddad was wearing this forever in winter. German WW2 veteran. Obviously worked.
Just ordered a Brynje Shirt. Cold at the moment.
Your grand father was a good man.
@@johnjay1147 He was a pacifist drafted in WW2. Not ideal. Alternative: execution. He was lucky to get on a destroyer and never had to shoot a single round.
Great post!
Been using Brynje and Aclima mesh for years. Sometimes wool and sometimes synthetic.
Wool smells a lot less!
Use this all winter for my runs, often with only shell over the mesh - down to -15°C (Norway). Starting cold is the key, at least for me.
Nice video and test! Thanks for the mention. Happy hiking!
👍👍👍 .. good review 😊.
Absolutely correct on Mesh Base Layers. Science backs this up.
Back in the 60's, our Airforce Pilots wore 'String Vests' under their Flight Suits. A pal of mine who had done his Military National Service as a Dog Handler guarding an Airforce Base, had one. I tried it out and was surprised how warm it was.
String Base Layers will 'take off' (as did synthetics replace cotton and merino wool, synthetics) as soon as 'marketing / the bean counters' determine that there is money to be made.
I am not surprised that they are popular in Scandinavia. Scandinavians live 'up North' 😁.
A very good share .. thanks for that .. take care ..
"Noooo dad I'm not a femboy, these fishnets are totally just to keep me warmer"
tbh though this is so smart idk why I never thought of it myself lol [edit: as a way to keep warmer]
It's 2024 - you can now be the femboy you always wanted to be. Don't have to find excuses for wearing some hot fashion.
@@Oktokolo Oh the first part was a joke about how bad of an excuse it'd be, sorry the second part in hindsight is confusing because I switched to talking about the warmth benefit while being too vague
@@SymbolCymbals2356 You wheren't too vague and the joke was obvious.
@@Oktokolo Good I'm a bit of a dumbass socially so I'm never sure I came across right lol
@@Oktokolo I wish but it really depends on where you live :\
great idea to do this test and i'll check for sure those mesh layers i didnt't know about thx!
When I was in the army we used a mesh layer underneath our t-shirt. The mesh layer had a vent at the bakc we could pull out through the neckline, it was just a long strip of the mesh, but it worked like a charm to help getting rid of sweat and heat when working hard.
mesh base layer is pretty common thing in cycling. most roadies wearing it under the lycra/poly/jersey/anyelsematerial shirt in almost every weather condition. I've used a cheapest aliexpress and decathlon's meshvests in summer while ago. it's was a much comfortable ride overall. but still not sure about hiking with that thing. oh, and it should fit slim and close to the body!
Yeah I saw that it's very big in the cycling world!
Castelli makes nice mesh cycling kit
I just discovered a fleece and 2 rain jackets on is just as warm as a fleece and puffy and rain jacket . The extra rain jacket is cheaper in some cases lighter to easier clean can stay compressed in a pack for long periods of time and of course wind waterproof
Good idea!
Amazing video, thanks a lot for sharing your foundings and testing it
Really interesting! I am a lifetime backpacker and I too was unaware of mesh. I am going to check it out. Thanks Oscar! ❄️🌿🎒
I bought a Brynje right before the season turned freezing, and it’s been extremely well worth it. Wear a wicking 2nd layer and a warming 3rd layer I.E (FROG silkweight thermal under FROG 1/4zip pullover) and finally a windbreaker or jacket on top depending on wind/rain/temperature and feel the difference in heat and sweat management you’ve been needing. Active layer management is still a huge MUST and if you sweat, take off or open your jacket and/or 1/4 zipper. I sweat a LOT less than when I put a standard thermal directly against my skin vs with the Brynje
So you wear a base layer over another base layer ....
@@3nertia You'll learn that's necessary if you ever move somewhere with sustained 30mph wind gusts.
@@harryazzole7814 Why the fuck would I want to live anywhere like that? It's bad enough where I live lmao
😂 @@3nertia I'm dying, that is hilarious
@@3nertia Lots of people wear dual base layers, some have good venting options. Some people do live in extra cold climates, ie Northern Alberta. How would you dress in -30 to -50 weather?
I don't know exactly why they work, but I know they do work.
They also keep you from overheating as much as two normal layers allowing for less layer changes in a day.
I've found the tops work better than bottoms for me, but I generally wear loose fitting hiking pants that already vent better than more form fitting tops.
A question I never thought to consider. Thank you!
well seeing as they are out of large sizes for the wool version I hope you affiliate link is doing well! You definitely deserve one from this video, it was well made and entertaining
for higher arobic activities (like cycling, running, especially something like nordic skiing) this has been the most common baselayer for some years - quite a few makers, Brynje perhaps the most known - but aclima, craft, devold and others make similar - mesh needs to be subdevided into synthetic and merino types - each with their added pros and cons - in general you get more warmth per weight and better moisture transport - downside is of course wind resistance (needs something on top) so its mostly for colder conditions - and in general the fit, feel and look (lots can be said - but it aint pretty...) personally i use it mostly for running/nordic skiing and less (mostly hybrid types) for hiking - i prefer a wool mix (something between 50-80% wool) with mesh back and underarm panels which for me is the most versatile piece that gives a good mix of fabric qualities (much better moisture transfer than pure wool, but still all the positives of wool regarding performance when moist, anti bacterial... and the good properties of mesh and more solid parts in the places it makes sense
Works great year around. Try it in summer with ventilation shirt over it. The fishnet wicks the moisture away from the skin and the ventilation shirt carries it away, Nice towear to sleep in year around.
@@tomsitzman3952 sure :) I just prefer the hybrid kinds as I can use them on their own - and they still give the main benefits of the mesh/fishnet construction
Is there any particular brand you tend to use for hybrid baselayers?
@@QuidamEU i use a few different ones - Mons royale temple tech hood is pretty good - aclimas woolnet hybrid, artilect's 125g series, icebreaker zone knit 125 series, Norrona bitihorn (old series)
Wiggys also offers mesh base layer tops and bottoms. Brynje, brynjeusa, offers different weights of mesh base layers. As well as mittens, socks, caps and Balaclava with a mesh lining.
Since mesh base layers are like a screen, you can't use them alone, except maybe in the summer. They are great under say a fleece, or a soft shell. Where as a solid material base layer can be used stand alone. Brynje offers a mesh T-shirt and this is often my summer base layer under a work shirt. Unisex Super Thermo T-Shirt Base Layer or Unisex Traditional Light Cotton T-Shirt Base Layer.
Mesh base layers are also great under a vapor barrier shirt or pants, water proof coated nylon jacket. The mesh gives a barrier between your skin and the vapor barrier material. Greatly reduces the wet, clammy, feeling.
As well as under a pack for the same reason - the mesh doesn't turn into a wet rag like a solid material base layer or shirt does.
Awesome to see Wiggy’s mentioned! I have a sleeping system from him, and his mesh stuff haze been around for a while!
It's funny to me because I realize I'm warm and sweating in my merino wool base layers but I never actually feel wet UNTIL I take them off lol
As well as Aclima / more dense mesh versions at Devold. But as well as Devold - Helly Hansen has base layers that reminds 3D air mesh (while weaved from synthetic + merino). So there's actually a lot options.
Excellent, this confronts what I have been saying for years!
Interesting & educational! Thanks for sharing 🥳
Old military "USGI Flyers Aramid Thermal Undershirts" are basically a more closed mesh similar to this. Insanely light, warm and breathable. Cheap, too
We usually call those a waffle knit or waffle top, I wear something similar year-round.
Still a standard issue in the Finnish army. I would say that it depends on the climate.
The same idea works with much hyped Alpha fleece. Looking forward to get one some day. Interesting piece is also Patagonia’s Capilene Air baselayer, made of half merino, half polyester, and has the same mesh type knit.
I’ve found a good middle ground with mesh shirts aimed for runners. Thanks for the vid. 👨🔬
Armadillo merino also sells a base layer top that is basically a traditional base layer with the mesh layer sewn into the inside
@@nathanlockhart3876 Ouch, pricey stuff. The Lynx one right? 166 GBP / 290g Edited: Would pull double duty as a mid too
@@YahyaHautamaki yes pricey for sure, and I don’t think they have a similar offering for pants, which is why I went with Brynje + smartwool intraknit. But it is good option if you don’t want to fiddle with as many layers.
I think there’s a Bundeswehr T-shirt (Leo Köhler Tropenshirt) which has a similar sandwich construction: cotton on top with polyester mesh sewn on the inside. These are available in the EU for 15-25 Eur apiece
Itseltäni löytyvät Acliman verkkopaita ja Rabin Alpha (Polartec alpha-materiaali) flash fleece. Verkkopaita toimii paremmin siirtämään kosteutta eteenpäin. Flash fleece jää märäksi. Itseasiassa vanha Haglöfsin fleece kuivuu nopeammin. Materiaalina ilmeisesti Polartec 200 tai 300.
Brynje is fantastic..I only use this when walking in the Norwegian mountains..I am never wet and it dries super quick
Reminds me of string vests that were common everyday wear in the northern UK during the 1950s-60s
I’ve used the Brynje polypro ones for maybe 15 years. I like to place them under a thin - 180g - merino base layer; perfect. For those who are interested in a merino option, Castelli makes one.
So, a base layer over another base layer? 🤔
@@3nertia Actually yes: Brynje and Finetrack call their mesh base layers "level 0" in a layering system where level 1 would be the traditional base layer. This effectively traps air better than anything else.
@@maxwellerickson7066 Seems excessive and I'm not fully convinced that the mesh layer 0 is necessary with a merino wool layer 1 ...
Of course, I don't live in the arctic north either lol
@@3nertia You don't need a thick layer for this, but a thin merino layer over mesh can offer excellent warmth for weight and still give you good moisture management. There are plenty of people who use an "Expedition weight" baselayer in the winter and that approach is inferior compared to the mesh option.
Yes, as Maxwell is saying, a thin base later over a mesh one is great, because the whole purpose is to create the air pockets.
Mesh baselayers have been a thing in cycling for a while! I love them in warm and cold weather, for sweat wicking & insulation respectively. There's actually really affordable ones at Decathlon, but brands such as Craft make them too. I highly recommend them to anyone!
Great tip! Thanks. Good presentation, I subscribed.
Thanks for that comparison. I cycle in Colorado all year and I have found in the winter a base layer with a tight weave keeps the moisture against my skin and can lead to being cold and uncomfortable while a thin loose weave base layer helps me stay dryer and warmer.
Great review and test! and thanks for tackling a (somewhat) controversial topic. We use Brynje Mesh as a base layer for long-distance hiking on the Appalachian Trail and it's caused us to rethink layering as we've found Mesh an odd mix of warm yet cool...and in the end superior to "closed knit" weaved base layers if 2nd and 3rd layers are chosen wisely.
We've been liking an Alpha Direct 2nd layer (Senchi Designs) as it grabs and evaporates the moisture well. If windy and cold, we've found a shell with pit-zips for a 3rd layer works well.
We've tried both synthetic and wool Brynje tops and bottoms and prefer the synthetic. It dries faster, is lighter, and is less expensive. It's also easier to wash when we get to town.
Brynje USA even created a 10% off discount code for us to pass out to hikers so they could discover the magic of mesh themselves (AT24)
Take care
In the early 90s a friend of mine was a Mountain Guide with the British Antarctic Survey. The standard issue undergarments were “string” vests. They looked crap but were the best for trapping air - the best insulation - near the skin. They were also breathable, obviously.
Our great grandparents knew stuff we shouldn’t have forgotten.
Wow... so I'm not crazy!!! It's not mesh, exactly, but I have a woven linnen blanket that is quite mesh-like, and doesn't provide any real warmth... and when I use that under my fleece blanket, it's noticeable how much warmer it is than just the fleece blanket. This was always my theory, but it's great to see it spelled out, thank you!!!
I’ve been wearing Mountain Hardware’s Air Mesh shirt. I’m extremely impressed with this product.
I’m a heavy sweater so moisture management is perhaps more critical for me than some. I have found nothing that comes close to the performance of Brenja fishnet base layer. I use the merino/synthetic blend. While backing, I’m very comfortable down to freezing with this base layer under a synthetic sun hoodie. Simply modulate comfort level with hat, neck gator and glove choices as needed. Once temperatures drop under freezing I add a light alpaca layer either under or over the sun hoodie. Not only is the base layer critical but the entire layering system has to work together to continue to move moisture away.
I have lots of merino base and mid layers but rarely use them because I easily saturate merino and it takes a long time to dry once wet. I’ve had better results with merino/ synthetic blends- I will no longer buy straight merino as it can’t perform well enough. Instead I prefer alpaca as it retains far less moisture than merino and drys much quicker. So alpaca is my choice for subsequent layers as it has the advantages of merino ((no odor) and moves moisture almost as well as synthetic choices. Brenja is the real deal and nothing I’ve tried comes close. Works so well for me I left my puffy at home during a two week trek across the Icelandic Highlands while most of the group was bundled up in typical
Layers and puffy jackets the entire time. Didn’t miss the puffy coat at all even when traversing miles of snow and ice.
Same here, at 52. As a hunter , fishermen we dress in layers, and take off , or open full length zippers. Till you find the setting you like , for the load and walking pace. 🤔 when you stop zip up once you start cooling down.
I've dressed in layers, unless 10- 0 degrees Fahrenheit then down jacket. 🤔
When deer hunting carried a flannel shirt, when I got to my sit spot, took off jacket (m65 Field jacket) and underlayer (insulated flannel shirt) . Put on dry flannel shirt, ,insulated flannel shirt, and Field jacket with orange vest. Turkey vast instead of a pack. 🤔🤔
Ironically found a Carhartt insulated coverall,with 3 zippers worked the best. With the flannel sitting shirt. . 😃😃
Hope this helps.
What I am missing is the test with removing the base layer. Also, how much extra warmth it gives you. I can see why it makes you less cold, there is just a lot less moisture trapped in and why it dries out faster, but those two directly go against the claim that it is also insulating. The reason why it dries out is that air can circulate well and thus transport the heat.
So I would assume, that you will stay as warm with this, or most likely even a bit warmer, if you just remove the merino shirt after you are done and wearing the fleece.
My thinking is is that because moisture sucks a considerable amount more heat away from you than air, what makes you warmer is the reduced time the moisture is in contact with your skin and the reduced time that the material is wet. Also, if you pair it with something wind resistant over top then your insulation it allows for pockets of warm air to sit in all the mesh holes which in turn can then exchange air with the "prewarmed insulation air", if that makes sense, basically creating two zones of warmth. Next to skin air and insulation air. Allowing you to modulate your insulation but limit the amount of next to skin heat loss in colder, high output situations.
Incredible and groundbreaking info. Great video.
Thanks for the info, I'm gonna try it forsure.
Mesh is nice. It is definitely drier than other garments next to skin.
However, to call it a "base layer" is slightly misleading. Mesh is not a standalone shirt; it requires a shirt over it, at least in public.
In other words, mesh is a good complement to a normal base layer, but is not a REPLACEMENT for a base layer.
Also, while mesh does add some warmth, it is not as warm as most base layers. Mesh certainly cannot compete with Polartec Alpha Direct or Teijin Octa (Airmesh) in terms of warmth to weight ratio.
As you say, the weave of a fabric is the most important thing. The most open weave is alpha direct (AD), which is remarkably warm and airy as a base layer. Adding Brynje under the AD adds some comfort, although AD alone does part of what Brynje does.
Bottom Line: If budget is a concern, then buy a good base layer first (AD or Airmesh), _then_ consider mesh as a potential addon. To purchase mesh first, thinking that it is as good as a quality, loose-weave, base layer, could be wasteful of limited resources.
Incorrect
I don't agree with everything, but good points nevertheless! You HAVE to wear something over a mesh, but not specifically a base layer. It can be a fleece or a sun shirt, as shown in my vid. But yeah, I agree that a normal base layer is more versatile. Mesh is super useful for really cold weather, so I think it makes more sense to buy it first if you live in Canada or a similar climate. But if you live in the southern US, a normal baselayer is probably better to buy first. For example, if you want to sleep in just a base layer, then you can't do that with a mesh because you always have to wear something over it. And as you pointed out, the BEST use for a mesh base layer is to wear it underneath a Merino wool baselayer, so yeah, they don't cancel out each other. My point with this video is that I wanted to bring awareness to mesh layers. They're incredibly good, often even better than traditional base layers, and yet everyone talks about merino and alpaca, but nobody about mesh. 🤷♂
@@OscarHikes Agreed that mesh is a good addon to other layers and it is helpful to let people know about it. I am wearing mine right now.
I just think you're slightly over-stating the case in favor of mesh. Shrug... HYOH, and we're all here because we wanted to hear your opinion.
I always put a thin layer on first, then a nice beefy warm layer, and I end it with a windbreaker. Where I live, I deal with negative temperatures in Fahrenheit rarely, but it works well!
best video on the topic in my opinion
For the cold season: Mesh base layer made of merino or merino/synthetic from Aclima or Devold (Scandinavian brands)
I also care about which one smells better after a week of hiking.
With a polypropylene mesh base layer you can rinse it in a stream, shake it out and put it back on straight away. Try that with merino. (No, don't, hypothermia is bad for you.) It won't be the mesh base layer that smells bad after a week.
Thanks for the response. I realize now that my comment sounded slightly aggressive, when I really just wanted to know which one would smell better. I love your channel!
You can get merino mesh too, but I would worry about durability. Those are not cheap, around 80 USD. I spent 3-4 days skiiing in my Brynje synthetic mesh and I didn't notice a smell. And you can easily wash it. wring it out and dry it quickly.
So from my own experience, it starts to smell bad in a time similar to merino wool, even though it's synthetic. That's because it ventilates extremely well. And yeah, if you wash it, it dries out extremely quickly. During the 31 minutes that I spent waiting to get cold, the mesh layer dried out completely on my back while wearing a fleece over it, which I was kind of shocked to notice because I also checked that with synthetic and merino wool, and they didn't dry at all.
Love your scientific approach
This is something we figured out climbing in college when my buddy had to wear an R1 as a first layer and commented how much warmer he was. I tried it, and it was a night and day difference. Still do it whenever I know I'm going to sweat a lot or it's really cold. The other thing I learned back then was down sucks unless it's well below freezing or you're in the desert.
According to wiggy's (colorado, USA), the mesh should be some type of nylon and not wool. Check out Wiggy's thinking on this.
With mesh, it really doesn't matter too much what the material is or isn't.
I think both wool and synthetic materials have their pros and cons. For synthetic, the pro is obviously that it's hydrophobic. For wool, is that it's antibacterial, softer to skin, and warmer due to holding more air. For less-active, normal hiking, I imagine wool mesh would work even better.
The more you tear up a mesh shirt, the fewer holes it has
Interesting video. I appreciate how thoughtful you were to remove as many variables as possible.
BRYNJE clothing is very good and very durable. I bought two mesh T-shirts from BRYNJE in 2001. I wore them as a base layer on building sites, for sport, hiking, or on very cold days. 23 years and the two T-shirts still work!
Merino comes in multiple weights. If one is going into serious cold climes I'd personally insist on it. Wool has the excellent property of remaining warm even if it's wet, because of the lanolin in it. Synthetic materials are in my opinion worse. A thick winter-weight Merino base layer is great - it really helps regulate temps both up and down. If you had had a thicker base layer that also covered your arms - and legs - you'd have remained comfortable much longer. That said, I can see how mesh could be quite effective with that much air against your skin, being held in place by the grid. I'm not a huge hiker - I mostly need base layers for riding motorcycles - so for me, Merino all the way. I prefer using as much Merino as possible in general to be honest, it's a fantastic natural material humans have not been able to match or improve on. Though certainly, a mesh combined with Merino on top would probably be great.
Merino works great as a mid-layer with the mesh underneath. The mesh truly does enhance merino’s own attributes. What really makes the mesh effective when combined with merino is it allows sweat to evaporate from the skin more effectively and pass through the merino. Synthetic works better for mesh because it doesn’t absorb as much sweat as merino mesh will, again enhancing the ability to get sweat off your skin and through your mid layer. I was skeptical at first too, I’ve even been playing around a lot with vapor barriers the past few years, but so far the mesh base layer has exceeded my expectations.
Okay I couldnt stop laughing seeing you see switch into the kink...I mean mesh layer.
I use Aclima wool mesh both for upper and lower body base layer during cold conditions in winter. Incredibly warm and does not soak up moisture from perspiration. During activity I can use the wool mesh layer alone with a wind proof layer on top even in - 15-20 degrees Celcius.
Theoretically it sounds really good!
I might give it a try next winter up here in Sweden.