I agree. Another thing I have read over the past couple of years are comments from anxious leaning people saying that after dating an avoidant and being severely hurt, they themselves become more avoidant and closed off with current people they date which is honestly sad. If you know something damaged you this bad, why would you in turn do the same to others? Just don't date until you heal this.
@@Fresh_Baked_Bread_Is_Life I agree. As the saying goes, hurt people hurt people. I was an FA leaning towards more anxious. I got hurt quite badly in 2 back to back relationships, once with a narcissistic AP, once with a narcissistic DA, which hurt even more. Afterwards, after being left confused about what the hell happened and questioning myself, I removed myself from dating and went into therapy for 1,5 years to heal myself. I am sure that if I dated, I would act severely avoidant, which would only emotionally damage another person for absolutely no reason but my selfishness and fear of not be willing to be alone.
@SunshineAndSnowflakes the problem is often we can heal things on our own but dating is a whole different environment where we can get retriggered. It's another layer of exposure that might not come out until you're dating again, and you kind of have to have relationships for some issues to surface. What matters is that you recognize them when they come up and deal with them as they do, not letting yourself go into old patterns by making a different choice
Have waited 10 months while listening to "i dont want drama or overthinking". Met his family, spent holidays together, every weekend together. All to be told we're just friends. We're old almost 60. I dont have the patience for this anymore.
I recently watched this episode of Catfish. When the man and woman finally met, he was very wishy washy about what he wanted, and her response was perfect! She basically said "Okay, I totally understand if you don't feel ready for this. I'm looking for something a little more concrete, so I think friendship is the best option for us." You can tell he was shocked and sad. She still hung out and went with him to get his first tattoo and was completely fine in the friendship role. What happened? They ended up being a couple. He said when she was ready to call their connection off and just be friends and realizing she was too amazing to let her go, he mustered up the courage to put his fears and confused state aside and made the commitment. My point? You HAVE to put yourself and your needs first, be willing to walk away and do it with grace and confidence. They'll either make the commitment or let you walk away. Either way, you're more respected for standing by your beliefs and not sacrificing your own happiness for someone else...even for them.
Nah I think this is different if the genders were reversed. When women suggest just being friends, it’s because she isn’t attracted to the guy. I’m sure it can happen in some cases, but if you actually put yourself in the friend role, they’ll not be able to see you in the romantic role. As a man, it’s best to say “No problem, I understand. I’m looking for someone that’s a little more sure about me. Best of luck!” It’s deal or no deal. And you walk away. I think this works when the roles are reversed because men don’t compartmentalize women the same as women do. Just my opinion though. Also for example, my stepdad told my mom they should just be friends. After they’d been dating. And my mom said nope, then you’re not coming over, we aren’t going out, no sleeping together (TMI for me lol) and she was ready to walk away. He changed his mind eventually and they’ve been married 13 years.
@@Gbb93 haha good for your mom! I love that. I suggested being friends with someone I was in love with. He didn't want what I wanted and that was fine, but no need to waste each others time. He made the commitment within two days. Lol So it does happen. Yes there are the "friend-zoned" men and then there are the ones that it's better to let go...even if you do love them.
@@Fresh_Baked_Bread_Is_Life Yeah my ex suggested that we be friends. Kinda weird to say that 12 hrs after you are intimate and say all sorts of lovey dovey stuff lol. I thought sure maybe we can try that. But she didn’t want to make any effort, always busy, etc. So I could tell she didn’t really want to be friends, or that maybe she knew we couldn’t based on her own feelings. It didn’t end well, we’ll just say that. I figure it’s for the best. I don’t think she friend zoned me…more like it was idealization.
@SunshineAndSnowflakes Transparency and honesty are lacking. What I despise are all these 'mind games '. Everyone needs to have a PhD. in Psychology just to navigate relationships nowadays, it's that confusing.
@@HippieZippy I mean, I suppose so if one is into playing games. I genuinely tell someone I am all set and actually walk away. There's a difference between having self-respect and honoring your non-negotiables than trying to get someone to commit by manipulation. Either way, it really is a mess in the world of dating right now. That's why I stay family, health and career focused because these are areas in my life that are solid. Even dating someone who is in love with you and vice versa is hard now because so many are unwilling to address their wounds to progress. I'm in my 40's now and already have children so I feel lucky, but it must suck for those who still want children and marriage trying to find someone now.
I'm securely attached and i can tell you that i expect people to make plans with me, communicate clearly and be consistent. A DA doesn't last very long. I think they are weird and off putting. Cool people, yes. But in a dating sense, its not who i invest my time in. And to the video, shes great by the way, i'm prepared to walk away from anyone i am dating. If i am not right for someone or they aren't for me i am not going to force it or date a fantasy. I can commit after a couple months but i'm not gonna build a strong attachment for 6 months or more. I'm dating to get to know them and that takes time
I was dating somebody 2 months and I felt I wasn’t getting the consistency and communication I needed so I just finished it out of the blue then I realised I had rushed into it so I explained to the person why I had finished it this is a pattern for me though my life, I find it hard to commute my needs so I rush into things then I have that light bulb moment a few weeks later that I should of had explained myself better it’s so frustrating going thought life like this I have changed a lot from childhood trauma but I’m still finding communication very hard ❤
This idea of having to wait a few months to decide if we're in a relationship or not is very weird to me. I live in Romania, in my country if we meet, like each other, go on 2-3 dates, like each other, kiss, have sex, start couple like interacting on daily basis, then we're together, we're in a relationship. There's no question about it. Now, if in a few months we don't like each other anymore, we break up. But we were a couple. The idea that I'd be investing all sorts of resources into a man in my case, for months, only to find out that we were never a couple is.... quite weird and sad. We commit, we do our best, we see how it works, we go the distance or break up. Investing in not yet committed makes no sense to me.
@@stormyskyz7881not only America… is the same disaster in the Nordic countries in Europe or Spain or UK I can also add to the list but, this coment about Romania is true! It’s the cultural thing that still exists. I can say the same for its neighbours.
Before social media and dating apps were so big, America was like this as well. Fear of commitment just means you're waiting to find something better, and it's more accessible than ever.
It takes time to get to know someone before committing intimately.... It's not avoidant. It's being smart. People jump into the sack way too soon. Such an act is sacred and creates a bond that is difficult to move on from. It's like a divorce! You give away a part of yourself in sexual intimacy.... This should not be rushed. Nothing is sacred anymore!
I’m not waiting three months to see if someone wants to commit to me!! After about three or four weeks, we are exclusive or we are not…. It doesn’t mean you have to be in a deeply committed relationship as that evolves naturally, but you definitely have to be exclusive.
Always have this conversation when you feel you are owed it. Further, if you say you’re going to walk away, then walk away and don’t look back. If you stick around it will likely cause you to become confused and insecure. Save yourself the heartache and let them come to you or move on. You’re welcome
My ex- a DA - was big into Future Faking very early on. He loved the fantasizing and getting me hyped up on the potential for us together long term. But it was all both a ruse to hook me and a way for him to "pretend" it would go somewhere (and maybe deep down he hoped it would) but when things started getting "real" he did the typical DA withdrawal. P.S. I'm a secure style. I just wish I'd known about all this before I met him!
MY Avoidant ex totally did the future faking thing. I never understood it. She would say she wanted to do something. I would either go out and buy tickets, or make plans to go somewhere and she would go avoidant on me. The bottom line, avoid the avoidant. They aren't worth our time or heartbreak .
@@PB-md3nt Yep. I was sitting on a $1500 plane ticket and he still had 2 suitcases full of my stuff - overseas! I was thankfully able to a refund on most of the ticket but getting my stuff back cost me $1000. And this was after my asking him repeatedly, "Are you SURE about this trip?" all while he was cushioning his next "relationship." The fun part is that I know I am his phantom ex. And I'm armed and ready to respond to his next overture. My goal isn't to hurt him. I loved him deeply. My goal is to use his vulnerable moment to make him face his issues. I truly hope it helps him - and his relationships going forward.
@@brownell.landrum I know I am her phantom ex. She keeps coming back to me, and has gone out on dates and said it's not me when she goes out with them. I, too, will not hurt her but definitely will tell her she needs to address her demons..
I am just now getting out of a DA relationship and I cannot wait to get my life back and feel happiness again! The senseless boreout is over 🎉 And now I am noticing how everyone feels like I am texting too little and too slow. That is the damage they caused me. Now working on reclaiming my right to express myself ❤
I did exactly this. Thank goodness I did it the correct way. So now either he will come around or I’ll eventually meet the guy for me!! Awesome. And thank you!
Cool video, My relationship of 5 years ended a month ago. The love of my life decided to leave me, I really love her so much I can’t stop thinking about her, I’ve tried my very best to get her back in my life, but to no avail, I’m frustrated, I don’t see my life with anyone else. I’ve done my best to get rid of the thoughts of her, but I can’t, I don’t know why I’m saying this here, I really miss her and just can’t stop thinking about her
its difficult to let go of someone you love, i was in a similar situation, my relationship of 12 years ended, but i couldnt just let her go i did all i could to get her back, i had to seek the help of a spiritual counselor who helped me bring her back
Exclusivity without the proposal 💍 means absolutely nothing … simply because so many people future faking and that exclusive promise is just for their comfortable access to get to you … Securely attached person should look at the actions and act accordingly. That’s all there is to it 🤷🏻♀️
He has committed to me but not to marriage…. literally for years. I am frustrated with my own patience, and fed up and yet have been here so long it’s hard to leave… so many mutual friends and family relationships… it pisses me off (at myself.) I never thought I would allow myself to be in this long of a situation.
The ironic thing is, I would get upset about people not wanting to be with me even though I know what I signed up for in the beginning. It's tough to not project feelings of rejection onto a person you want to be with, but you do make sense.
Yep. Did this. I say I just need to know we are both genuinely interested and moving forward together. Of course he says as long as we can move slow, yes, I see a future with you. I’m in love with you. Only to have him now say I deserve better and he’s long gone. I opened my heart and committed while he ran. I’m now trying to figure out why he didn’t take off on the many occasions that we discussed these options before admitting feelings of love for each other. No win here.
Eh, I’m secure and tried it all. Even a second chance after space . When she reached back out I tried for a while to give time and just be chill but weird breadcrumbing, non communication, among other behaviors. I asked chill a few times , I actually even tested by acting like anxious and pouring it on. We’d talk about bigger plans and when I brought it up to reality, crickets. I pretty much knew where it was going but was more curious. I finally got bored and just said good luck bye. It’s not even worth the effort as a secure. Dont waste your time.
Actions always speak louder than words. It would be nice to try and talk to the avoidant about valuing your own time and expectations regarding where it’s all going but if their actions are showing you already how they feel why seek clarity
As someone who is working on being more secure from being an AP, your videos have helped me so much. My communication and trusting myself has really improved. Thank you!
This also applies to any relationship or friendship whether it’s platonic or romantic. As a secure person, I was friends with someone I recognized as avoidant after a while. Her husband and mine got along well. We did things together. Her words didn’t match her actions though. Constantly creating space and reluctant to make plans, canceling plans without rescheduling, although saying how grateful she was to have me as a friend. Didn’t want to “ruin what we were building” by making plans in general. Wtf? Anyway I finally spoke up, after she cancelled an important celebration the day before with a lame excuse…said it was evident she didn’t have time to put effort into a close friendship, that I was okay with it, and therefore was more of a casual friend, instead of a close friend. I have room for both. Saying it like this to let her off the hook so if she was feeling stress or whatever, she would hopefully take it better. Her response was no response. Okay. Can’t invest in that type of person.
I think you r more anxious she gave you all signals I don’t want a close relationship and you call her avoidant . Of course she avoids you because she doesn’t want more but it isn’t her trait I m sure if she sees her true guy she will never cancel plans
You misread my comment…not a romantic relationship. I’m a female and referring to a female friend who I have realized was avoidant. She knew my husband when they were kids. She reached out to my husband and I to get together. I didn’t know her. She expressed over and over how she had no female friends and how happy she wss to now have a person to connect with. After some time went by it was evident why she had no friends. As I said, her actions didn’t match her words. Expressing desire to connect but wanting to be spontaneous with no definite plans. I show care for friends by intentionally setting aside time for them, which is why I have many long time friends. Push pull, constant cancelling, keeping space while saying she wanted closeness and constantly needing advice on managing her difficult family members. . All the signs. Can’t be close friends with that type of behavior. So she’s in the casual friend category now.
GREAT POINT and one I don’t think is brought up NEARLY enough, especially considering how crucial, vital even, substantial friendships are in our lives and communities. Your example is one that I’ve seen popping up here and there unfortunately, this and the ghosting scenario, and they’re both heartbreaking and I’m sorry you went through it. This can be so devastating, particularly for those genuinely seeking (and/or needing) connection, those still learning about friendships in general, and those unnecessarily hurt by repeated acts of UNNECESSARY dishonesty. I say unnecessary because so often its acts that could’ve been replaced with polite ‘No, thank you’, ‘That’s not something my family’s really into right now but thank you for inviting us,’etc, but INSTEAD people often say YES, RSVP, state ____ is their favorite also, etc., unnecessarily and unprovoked, and worse, this deceitful and harmful behavior is often excused and ‘explained away’ as being “polite” 😳 whereas the person hurt by them, the reaction to the ongoing deceitful behavior, is viewed as “impolite”, and is now somehow in the wrong. 🤦🏾♀️ So lying is ok but ‘truthing’ is wrong? Yeah. Things have changed quite a bit. PS - So glad you double checked to clarify just in case because you never know and sometimes people have their own things going on. You are DEFINITELY the type of friend I’d appreciate, a clear communicating one!
@@ars6187 Thank you. Sad thing is, they create the very scenario they fear by sabotaging the friendship...ending up alone! It's great to now understand this issue as I realize I witnessed avoidant behavior a few other times in the past, and recognized the misalignment... but felt confused and decided that it wasn't worth investing time to figure it out. Anyway, I like to believe there are awesome people who I have yet to meet coming my way!
I’m pretty secure, I do not like to date multiple ppl at once, so I will state that and give my attention to dating one person at a time. I also will not sleep with someone who is sleeping with other ppl, so I guess you could look at that as a commitment? I don’t need months to get to know one person, I have no idea what commitment means in this sense of dating. However, I will not introduce someone to family and friends until I have a good idea of who a person is and that can be a few months.
See this is how dating should be. There was a quote I heard that resonated: If you’re dating two people and can’t decide between them, pick the 2nd person. If the 1st person was right for you, there wouldn’t be another person.
I completely agree with you! I don't understand how nowadays folk are seeing multiple people. I mean, why?! I've got no time for that kind of thing. If you're dating you're together, not flitting about from one person to another. It shows an absolute lack of commitment from the other person.
@@lindatannock Yeah, the term I think we use is “emotionally unavailable.” Gal I dated did that, and she’d do it right in front of me which was rude. I never visibly got upset or jealous, but I was so confused and it definitely affected how I treated her - I’m not gonna go all in for someone who’s not all in for me! She told me way afterwards that after me, she decided to not date multiple guys at once again. I was like “gee, thanks”. Wish you could have made that choice while you were dating me… and ofc I felt like I was never enough..
Fascinating! My ex DA was quick to make things exclusive, quick to fantasize abt the future and in a years he wanted me to move in. I’m FA, naturally is was hard for me to trust so quickly before 6 mos. Moving in together I was not fully comfortable. Long story short we broke up. He came back a year later. We moved in, but only for 2 years. His breadcrumbs and gaslighting was driving me bananas. Video on how secure attachment deals with gaslighting? What is the slippery slope that can make a secure attachment become ANXIOUS when dealing with an avoidant?
I really needed this video a couple of months ago. I tried to explain to the person in my best possible way that I had the feeling he was drifting apart and had no real interest in getting to know each other. He got very defensive.
I love these videos. I watch a lot of the DA videos to understand my attachmentstil better and see what behaviour and mechanics I show without activly knowing for working on it. And the secure videos for role moddeling learning. In my family there aren't romantic longterm relationships. And the one who exists is extremly toxic... (even most of the platonics were/are highly toxic between my extended family...) I am extremly lacking these skills, because of a missing socialization and role moddeling...
Wow you are so spot on,That's how i fell in love with my then fearful avodaint partner, now a secured one, we started as friends then the rest is history thanks thais if it wasn't for your videos,i really don't know you are appreciated 😊😊
Like someone in the comments said it turns out i am not so insecure that i first tough and i am proud of that fact....however "i don't know i am not sure...or ..i don't like you like that" are still no go for me and a major Red flag ....and it's the point of no return ❤❤❤😊
I’ve stayed because of my feelings for him yes but also because of empathy for his trauma, which he hasn’t shared with me, but clearly exists. As a result I’m almost always the one to initiate contact, especially after an argument. But, how do I know that I’m not being a fool, that he’s taking advantage of my compassion, that it’s not because of his issues/fears that he won’t initiate but just because he is a stubborn, egotistical man who is taking me for granted? I believe he is both DA/FA. I am secure, but he has brought out some anxiety in me.
I am in a very similar situation. I do have so much empathy for my traumatised FA bf, but am I just being a bit too naive and taken advantage of? This thought is so pushing me to the anxious attachment 😢
If you both feel you're losing yourself in the relationship and becoming anxious, talk to them. If they're completely non-committal, walk away, particularly if they're unwilling to get help for their issues. It'll never change. You'll just get more anxious and your needs won't get met. It'll always be like that.
@@lindatannock tysm. On top of which he started flaw-finding when I used the wording “we are together.“ i wish I knew whether he meant it, or fears because of his issues. It was hurtful. Not the first time. :(
thank yoou so much for sharing all of these useful tools and tips. navigating these conversations *are* quite scary, my attachment style is changing back to secure in my developmental life especially previous relationships. the question lingers for me, how do you encourage them to open up to you more, and not hold back. and would you be able to go into how to rebuild trust after trust is damaged in a relationship?
10:20 I think this is where my attempts at boundaries can be a little over eager. I can feel bad, feel them not being on the same page as me, and I'm hypervigilant to threat. So I'll be like "I'm going to start distancing myself because I feel neglected." And my husband feels pressured. It's nice to be like "I'm noticing this. I'm wanting this and not seeing us stay on the same page. If in the next few weeks I don't see us working together I'll bring it up again. And if it doesn't THEN I'll take a step back." Requires a lot of emotional core strength - because your moood won't shift so severely if they don't show up, since your life is full with others alreafdy.
I won't even wait 2 months to have that talk. On the first date, I wanna know what you are looking for and have you say it before I let you know what I'm looking for. After that date, that info should help me decide if I should see you again or not or go NC. If we make it past the first date and we keep talking, I'm looking at your actions the whole time; by 6 - 8 weeks, we should already know if we wanna be together. If you still don't know at that point, goodbye. The most I can do is give you a couple of 2 - 4 weeks. After that, byeeeeee! Don't waste your time, it's not worth it.
Was in a situationship with a FA I tend to lean more anxious but working really hard on being secure. Relationship started through friendship. I was recently single after being engaged so I knew I didn’t want to rush into anything at the start. After 2 months of being incredibly close I could sense me catching feelings. She said she was to. So I asked for commitment. We were doing everything a relationship is, just without the label. She freaked out. Why am I rushing, I’m not chill, all of that rubbish. Said that if she can’t give me that then I’m wasting my time, so I called it off and walked away 4 weeks past and she messaged. Asking if we could be friends. I’m not friends with women I recently slept with. And I don’t really wanna watch her play around with someone else. So I held my ground. It’s really hard because you do miss the person and the memories. We did get on really well. But long term you know it will do you more damage than good if you let them back in
Did you communicate your needs clearly and then give them a chance to process…. May be they got scared initially and realised but having said that ask them clearly the reason they are back…. Communicate respectfully how u feel
Happy to say I'm more secure than I thought but still hurts when the DA runs scared and you have to let go of all the things they told you they wanted for the future at the start. I do also think i could've given them a bit less 'space and time' and reclaimed my own time a bit more but it's all down to learning.
For the past months i’ve been trying to break off with an avoidant. He keeps diverting the conversation. Lol anyways, I decided that I don’t need to verbalize my position in order to have closure. I know this is not for me after two years of getting a really clear picture of who he is. I waited so long because I was so emotionally in love with him. However, it just isn’t going to work for me in the long run. I’m working on my personal finances and looking for some one on my level.
I need to work on saying things like you say them. I find myself being more direct in my approach and I come across very harsh. This is not going to be easy for me but I’ll work on it :)
I wish I had come across this video a lot earlier in life. What does one do when an AP finds out that he is married to a DA 16 years into a marriage and a child is involved? A little over a year ago, I started therapy and have a much better understanding of things but a solution (other than the obvious) still evades me. Thank you #ThaisGibson for #PDS, you are a life saver. Just trying to focus on the child and keeping myself sane, while knowing that this might not be setting the right example.
@@davidwhyman1189 Go read about the Attachment Theory, you should eventually get to the Anxiety vs Avoidance graph/picture. On that graph/picture you should see; SA - Secure Attachment, AP - Anxious Preoccupied, FA - Fearful Avoidant, DA - Dismissive Avoidant. To the best of my understanding, this has to do with how one perceives themselves vs. how one perceives others. Understanding this has been extremely helpful for me in understanding my marriage. Now there are instances where I feel like Neo from The Matrix, where I can predict (to an extent) how interactions between my wife and others (myself included) are going to end up and I can take the necessary steps to keep my sanity rather than falling back into the anxious-avoidant trap over and over again. While I am not out of the trap yet, it seems that I am able to avoid the worst aspects of being in this trap by understanding the attachment theory. It seems to make the most sense out of all the other things that I have come across in my year long journey to figure out my life. Good Luck!
@davidwhyman1189 You're not the only one! I had to GTS (hahaha Google That Stuff) myself. FA: Fearful Avoidant DA: Dismissive Avoidant AP: Anxious Preoccupied SA: Secure Attached You might also see secure, avoidant, resistant, and disorganized. Those largely map to the 4 above, it depends on whose literature someone is quoting (or, trying to distance themselves from)
Outstanding modeling, I think you heard my asking for more modeling of secure styles. Wish I had you in my early dating stages lots of unnecessary bonding and disappointment took place trusting progression would take place csuse I wanted it. Options, and observation are key now no assumptions.
I just separated from an avoident after 9 1/2 months of dating. I asked him if he would be there for me when im sick, and that question pretty much ended the relationship.
The point that sticks out in this video the most is understanding that everyone doesn't have the same timeline. People always tell me I'm not being assertive by waiting for the woman to bring up commitment and I always answer by asking, "how am I supposed to know a person's timeline?" It's so much easier to let the woman bring up commitment or exclusivity so I don't blind sight her before she's ready. Great video!
It's possible that your response: "how am I supposed to know a person's timeline" says a lot about your approach to discussing commitment up to that point. Typically a secure person will be communicating openly and honestly about exactly that commitment timeline in order to come to a reasonable agreement about what works for both parties. The fact that there's no communication about this timeline until a person assumes you lack assertiveness could be perceived as a form of avoidance. However it would depend on how much communication has taken place before this.
A woman dates a man because she wants a powerful confident consistent Caring, responsible leader. She rarely wants to have to lead a relationship to commitment. It feels like shes the mom.Men often dont like being told what to do so women allow him to make good decisions. Polarity helps keep a balance and harmony. Both parties only know if they are right for each other if they are up front about their own values, vision, needs,and lifestyle. Share who you are and desires so know early is this a match....❤
@@oosn0b0ardroo it doesn't matter how you communicate the idea to the individual, what matters is whether or not the individual is ready. Forcing a timeline is not healthy and certainly not what Thais is suggesting. She's saying that you take the timeline into consideration before asking. I've found women will bring up commitment when they're ready which is why I continue dating other women in the meantime.
@@ladyofspa women also don't want to be forced into a commitment they're not ready for. As Thais says in the video, you have to take the other person's timeline into consideration. Since people don't walk around with timelines on their foreheads, it's best to sit back, show up, and wait for them to bring it up. I've seen this post out FAR too many times in the last 10 years for it to be purely coincidence. Couple that with the fact that prior to this time frame I actually was the one to ask for exclusivity (typically around the 2-3 month mark) and was always told it was "too soon." Go figure. My job as a man is to focus on hanging out, having fun, and hooking up. If and when she's ready to be exclusive, she'll let me know. In the meantime, I continue seeing and saying other women as well.
I wish I had worded it the way you have. I'm pretty secure leaning AP and he was FA. I told him I want a r/shp, I can wait but I won't wait forever. I'm paraphrasing. Basically put a ticking clock on the table. He got triggered ofcourse. Couldn't stand the perceived pressure and he was just from a bad break up. So he said I should find someone else. It's been one year of on and off no contact. We even dated for a week a year ago. But I still want him and it sucks honestly. It just sucks that I still want this unstable human being in my life 🤦🏾♀
How does an avoidant style get better at thinking about the anxious person? Sometimes I feel like i just naturally don't think about the person at the early stages of dating because i'm so used to doing my own thing... and I worry that i'm hurting the other's feelings because we have different expectations around frequency of texting.
I'm dating and avoidant woman we've been dating for 6 moths and well she says she wants to get married and have kids with me but sometime dealing with the stonewalling for pushing you away kinda makes me feel otherwise , I'm very patient with her and she goes to therapy but still is hard when things go wrong
See....I think ideally the talking stage should be 3 to 6 months. Dating should be 6 months to 2 years prior to determining if this person is ideal for an actual title/label/commitment. The reason I say this for myself is you DO NOT KNOW PEOPLE....A person can literally fake an entire personality for 3 months easily, and have you thinking one thing when it was never that. Hence why I say TAKE YOUR TIME! Yet being in a talking stage/situationship for 2 years IS A WASTE OF TIME. Like again there should be some type of progression.....you should not still be unsure where you stand with someone, still asking what are we 2 years in??! Also this is why I personally subscribe to ethical non-monogamy. Bc again why should anyone waste all their time putting all their eggs into one basket, not having their needs met, etc when they could be talking and mingling with others that's just my two cents on it. Another thing is people need to learn to be HONEST, TRANSPARENT, and COMMUNICATE effectively. My issue is people LIE about being monogamous/ and relationship oriented just so they can have access to consistent sex, instead of keeping things honest and real from the jump. Which is one of the many reasons why many of us end up in situationships we never consented to being in! If we are being honest its predatory behavior and its sexual coercion/abuse. You are using people, leading people on, not being forthcoming and playing games with people to have access to their bodies for sex. That is WRONG, no matter how you try to twist and turn it.
@@PsychedPerspective you speak my language lol. The first point especially. People should understand that dating is a journey, not a sprint. I heard some talking about wanting commitment or at least a guarantee after 2 or 3 months. My female relatives said they wanted the guy to start planning for marriage before the first date ffs! Rushing into things is how you end up in toxic relationships, or situationships. Dating is a process, where you get to know someone, and vet them.
Could this apply to a marriage, on thin ice, with the DA (who WILL NOT admit that she is this style) who has set an ultimatum for the AA? The AA is me who is in the process of self-improvement (for myself as well as the relationship) but without a doubt want to be with my wife. She shows every sign of lacking or wanting intimacy (both from our shaky marriage and seemingly from childhood but I cannot confirm the latter). She claims that it’s my insecurities as to why I want her affection and touch, etc. My argument is and has always been “couple touch each other and are affection and hold hands”.
Feels worse as he did commit We moved in together And then he backed away and away and eventually out of commitment again All the while pretending and justifying All the well setting up other sources, and pretending he wasnt Sooo angry its waking me up at night Honestly trust your gut and emotions Youre not overreacting If it feels wrong It is
I’m 4 years in and his avoidant behaviors seems more abusive then avoidant. Being neglectful, yelling, defensive, no interdependence makes me feel like I owe him things, I’m ready to get married he says he is he just treats me like crap I’m gonna move on
There’s no way it’s accurate to accommodate someone’s need to wait 6 months to establish if it’s a relationship or not. That does not make sense because you can’t protect yourself within that time period of not getting attached. In 6 months you can get heartbroken and it’s a waste of time to hang around in case they do want to commit. I did this with a partner for 5 months and it took me two years to fully get over it and I still feel betrayed by it. I would say that person was avoidant and at the same time had some abandonment fears that would get triggered by me not meeting them 100% in every single moment. I would say I was more avoidant but not to the extent that I don’t want connection. I just require a lot of space within the connection. I believe you can rule out someone’s intentions within the first 1 month for sure and even before that based on how they’re showing up and the effort they’re investing. Women get more easily attached so they should not be entertaining someone who doesn’t have a clear direction and sense of how they feel about you. You should be going on dates with multiple people and not sleeping with them until they have shows a genuine interest throughout time. You vet them. They don’t vet you.
I feel to be a securely attached person but i usually commit after 3 weeks if i really like a person. Do you think it could be a redflag for me? Am i falling into anxious attached? I honestly don't keep on dating a person after the second date if i don't feel totally involved since for me a person can be either 100 or 0.
That was my style but I realize I did a disservice to the slow burner shy dudes who probably would have brought me happiness in our relationship. Live and learn. Try out different timelines
What are people’s opinions on friendships after relationships? In my life I get alot of can we still be friends or why am I throwing away the friendship if dating doesn’t work. I’m happy walking away and distancing if it doesn’t work but I’m always made to feel bad for 100% removing myself after a breakup I understand if kids are involved and that sort of thing…
I truly think it depends. I'm good friends with my ex husband. He's a good man, we weren't a good match. I have so much inner work that I want to do, I have zero interest in dating any time soon. I guess time will tell, but I'm grateful for our friendship
I think if you truly care about a person enough to consider partnership with them, it makes sense that you'd stay friends. It doesn't make sense not to, unless a person needs space to protect their feelings for awhile while they heal.
@@the_blue_lotus_portal Normally they are just acquaintances to me. I wish nothing bad on them. But when I’m dating I don’t see the need to be in contact with past partners. It feels weird to me. It’s such a 50/50 topic Some people are against it Some people don’t mind
I think that this resonates with y situation. But we are 17 yr together no marriage no kids. He is 9 yr older, zhen I was to young, was 17 old and he was 25 i didnt know much about love or commitment. But after all this years realised that he has traumas, never reciprocate love, and he is fearful avoidant type and I secure t. I dont know what to do, since he dosent want to go on psycologist therapy, neither wants to work on himself, issues, he just lives in routine, and does not see value in marriage. He does not have emotional inteligence, its so sad, difficult, I m fighting for years for our love. Hes so lukewarm, and dont want to introspect his life, traumas, and past. Im affraid he cannot be good husband or dad if he doesnt heal.
You can't fix people or stay in a relationship hoping he'll change. This is who he is and you have to prepare yourself for him to be this way forever. If change is going to happen he needs to want it.
@@Fresh_Baked_Bread_Is_Life I understand nor after many years. I was also a people pleaser, when I healed last year or two I see al different. I love him but not as a future husband anymore. it so sad because there are so many years left for trying for love and commitment. But I realised after we talked that he was immature and problems. I was like a toy a seal to comfort him. when he graduated I was so proud of him, with rose glasses thinking he would provide, be better person, future husband, that we would travel together help others. But no he just last ten years had no ambitions, no perspective, he stucked, then routine happend to us etc. its really sad , these last days of time all is hard.Also there is family ho interferre beetwen us, manipulate insinuate things, and that also tired us. Im just seeking for advice for practical steps what to do next .
@@Fresh_Baked_Bread_Is_Life Želi on promjenu iskrenu, no onda kao da ustukne i izgubi se opet u rutini. i više ni sam nezna što bi htio. Želi on bolji život, ali totalno je zbunjen, .I ja mu više ne mogu pomoći, kao da mu fali nešto u glavi. Obavili smo mnogo razgovora zadnjih mjeseci. I više zaista kao da gubimo vrijeme. On živi u rutini, posao kuća hobby spavanje jedenje sve isto. I nema planove, nemamo ušteđevine i on krivi sebe. Kao da nevoli sebe, krivi se za sve i negativizira . Nemogu to više slušati. Nezna dijeliti ljubav, on uvjek je došao i traži zagrljaj traži poljubac, uvjek kaže ''daj mi ''a ne evo ti Srećom prilično je mirna osoba, da je žestok odavno bi otišla. Ali pošto je on avoidant sa tim ponašanjem i rutinom mi smo emocionalno i duševno sve više odvojeni. Mrtvilo
Ok, speaking up clearly if avoidant potential partner is on same page as i do, i got it, but, um, where is romantic part of it? Just stepping up and asking (by other words) "hey, i am interested in long-term romantic partnership, are you interested or not, necause i don"t waste my time here?" sound clunky. I believe that stepping up would scare most women away. What would be next then? "Can i hold you hand, can i kiss you, can we have beutiful romantic sex?" ;)
2 - 4 months! As a therapist i would call someone who wants to jump into a relationship that fast codependent. There's alot to the other person that's just not known at 2 - 4 months. A year dating is healthy. What you are suggesting in this video is unhealthy in relationships
1st step is acknowledging and admitting it, so well done 👏 This is where your journey begins. Now, the easiest way to start going towards secure is by attending therapy. But if this is not an option for you, there are plenty of resources online. Good luck, you're gonna do great 😊
Yeah, you need to give it time and communication. When you’re feeling overwhelmed, express that to them. If they haven’t confronted their concern already, that is. Otherwise they will assume that you just aren’t very into them or dating other people, and they likely will begin guarding themselves and keeping a distance. In my experience, the avoidant will see this as disinterested and either (FA) come closer for reassurance, which will confuse the hell out of the other person. Or they (DA) will just begin detaching out of self preservation. In actuality, it’s a misunderstanding between them both where disinterest isn’t actually occurring.
I feel like we are in an avoidant and emotional unavailability pandemic.
I agree. Another thing I have read over the past couple of years are comments from anxious leaning people saying that after dating an avoidant and being severely hurt, they themselves become more avoidant and closed off with current people they date which is honestly sad. If you know something damaged you this bad, why would you in turn do the same to others? Just don't date until you heal this.
Agree! 😂
@@Fresh_Baked_Bread_Is_Life I agree. As the saying goes, hurt people hurt people. I was an FA leaning towards more anxious. I got hurt quite badly in 2 back to back relationships, once with a narcissistic AP, once with a narcissistic DA, which hurt even more. Afterwards, after being left confused about what the hell happened and questioning myself, I removed myself from dating and went into therapy for 1,5 years to heal myself. I am sure that if I dated, I would act severely avoidant, which would only emotionally damage another person for absolutely no reason but my selfishness and fear of not be willing to be alone.
@@nickus51 100%. I don't date when I'm hurt over an ex. If I can't show up secure, then I turn people down when they ask me out.
@SunshineAndSnowflakes the problem is often we can heal things on our own but dating is a whole different environment where we can get retriggered. It's another layer of exposure that might not come out until you're dating again, and you kind of have to have relationships for some issues to surface. What matters is that you recognize them when they come up and deal with them as they do, not letting yourself go into old patterns by making a different choice
This video has made me realize I’m more secure than I thought.
I love this comment! It's nice when there are moments that confirm I actually did the right thing sometimes. Lol
Securely attached do not wait around for those who can't committ...We move on and wish them well. We don't NEED them, they need us..❤
Nobody needs anybody, especially outside of these styles. Born alone, die alone.
This❤
Thats where you are very wrong. You would like them to need you, but they dont so you leave.
what a stupid take on this
No one was ever born alone. You are born out of someone else.
Then we were cradled and cared for 24/7.
What am I missing?
Have waited 10 months while listening to "i dont want drama or overthinking". Met his family, spent holidays together, every weekend together. All to be told we're just friends. We're old almost 60. I dont have the patience for this anymore.
I recently watched this episode of Catfish. When the man and woman finally met, he was very wishy washy about what he wanted, and her response was perfect! She basically said "Okay, I totally understand if you don't feel ready for this. I'm looking for something a little more concrete, so I think friendship is the best option for us." You can tell he was shocked and sad. She still hung out and went with him to get his first tattoo and was completely fine in the friendship role. What happened? They ended up being a couple. He said when she was ready to call their connection off and just be friends and realizing she was too amazing to let her go, he mustered up the courage to put his fears and confused state aside and made the commitment.
My point? You HAVE to put yourself and your needs first, be willing to walk away and do it with grace and confidence. They'll either make the commitment or let you walk away. Either way, you're more respected for standing by your beliefs and not sacrificing your own happiness for someone else...even for them.
Nah I think this is different if the genders were reversed. When women suggest just being friends, it’s because she isn’t attracted to the guy. I’m sure it can happen in some cases, but if you actually put yourself in the friend role, they’ll not be able to see you in the romantic role. As a man, it’s best to say “No problem, I understand. I’m looking for someone that’s a little more sure about me. Best of luck!” It’s deal or no deal. And you walk away. I think this works when the roles are reversed because men don’t compartmentalize women the same as women do. Just my opinion though.
Also for example, my stepdad told my mom they should just be friends. After they’d been dating. And my mom said nope, then you’re not coming over, we aren’t going out, no sleeping together (TMI for me lol) and she was ready to walk away. He changed his mind eventually and they’ve been married 13 years.
@@Gbb93 haha good for your mom! I love that. I suggested being friends with someone I was in love with. He didn't want what I wanted and that was fine, but no need to waste each others time. He made the commitment within two days. Lol So it does happen. Yes there are the "friend-zoned" men and then there are the ones that it's better to let go...even if you do love them.
@@Fresh_Baked_Bread_Is_Life Yeah my ex suggested that we be friends. Kinda weird to say that 12 hrs after you are intimate and say all sorts of lovey dovey stuff lol. I thought sure maybe we can try that. But she didn’t want to make any effort, always busy, etc. So I could tell she didn’t really want to be friends, or that maybe she knew we couldn’t based on her own feelings. It didn’t end well, we’ll just say that. I figure it’s for the best. I don’t think she friend zoned me…more like it was idealization.
@SunshineAndSnowflakes Transparency and honesty are lacking. What I despise are all these 'mind games '. Everyone needs to have a PhD. in Psychology just to navigate relationships nowadays, it's that confusing.
@@HippieZippy I mean, I suppose so if one is into playing games. I genuinely tell someone I am all set and actually walk away. There's a difference between having self-respect and honoring your non-negotiables than trying to get someone to commit by manipulation.
Either way, it really is a mess in the world of dating right now. That's why I stay family, health and career focused because these are areas in my life that are solid. Even dating someone who is in love with you and vice versa is hard now because so many are unwilling to address their wounds to progress. I'm in my 40's now and already have children so I feel lucky, but it must suck for those who still want children and marriage trying to find someone now.
I'm securely attached and i can tell you that i expect people to make plans with me, communicate clearly and be consistent. A DA doesn't last very long. I think they are weird and off putting. Cool people, yes. But in a dating sense, its not who i invest my time in.
And to the video, shes great by the way, i'm prepared to walk away from anyone i am dating. If i am not right for someone or they aren't for me i am not going to force it or date a fantasy. I can commit after a couple months but i'm not gonna build a strong attachment for 6 months or more. I'm dating to get to know them and that takes time
Very secure perspective. We have to stop putting our happiness on hold for others.
I found that response weird and off putting.
@@jacl1923 cool
Beautifully said
I was dating somebody 2 months and I felt I wasn’t getting the consistency and communication I needed so I just finished it out of the blue then I realised I had rushed into it so I explained to the person why I had finished it this is a pattern for me though my life, I find it hard to commute my needs so I rush into things then I have that light bulb moment a few weeks later that I should of had explained myself better it’s so frustrating going thought life like this I have changed a lot from childhood trauma but I’m still finding communication very hard ❤
This idea of having to wait a few months to decide if we're in a relationship or not is very weird to me.
I live in Romania, in my country if we meet, like each other, go on 2-3 dates, like each other, kiss, have sex, start couple like interacting on daily basis, then we're together, we're in a relationship. There's no question about it.
Now, if in a few months we don't like each other anymore, we break up. But we were a couple.
The idea that I'd be investing all sorts of resources into a man in my case, for months, only to find out that we were never a couple is.... quite weird and sad.
We commit, we do our best, we see how it works, we go the distance or break up.
Investing in not yet committed makes no sense to me.
That makes sense America is the one that’s messed up
@@stormyskyz7881not only America… is the same disaster in the Nordic countries in Europe or Spain or UK I can also add to the list but, this coment about Romania is true! It’s the cultural thing that still exists. I can say the same for its neighbours.
Before social media and dating apps were so big, America was like this as well. Fear of commitment just means you're waiting to find something better, and it's more accessible than ever.
That's how dating used to be. Now, people don't want to commit to try to make a relationship work.
It takes time to get to know someone before committing intimately.... It's not avoidant. It's being smart. People jump into the sack way too soon. Such an act is sacred and creates a bond that is difficult to move on from. It's like a divorce! You give away a part of yourself in sexual intimacy.... This should not be rushed. Nothing is sacred anymore!
I’m not waiting three months to see if someone wants to commit to me!!
After about three or four weeks, we are exclusive or we are not…. It doesn’t mean you have to be in a deeply committed relationship as that evolves naturally, but you definitely have to be exclusive.
Always have this conversation when you feel you are owed it. Further, if you say you’re going to walk away, then walk away and don’t look back. If you stick around it will likely cause you to become confused and insecure. Save yourself the heartache and let them come to you or move on. You’re welcome
A young woman doesn't have 6 months to wait and see if an avoidant even wants a relationship. Wait a month and then move on ladies.
I disagree. A month is not enough time. Ladies, relax. Enjoy the ride.
Why is that? Why is 6 months too long to wait for a marriage proposal?
Women can be avoidants as well unfortunately...
@@colored-thoughts2505 I was just about to say " what about the avoidant woman in the relationship? Because... that might me 😅"
My ex- a DA - was big into Future Faking very early on. He loved the fantasizing and getting me hyped up on the potential for us together long term. But it was all both a ruse to hook me and a way for him to "pretend" it would go somewhere (and maybe deep down he hoped it would) but when things started getting "real" he did the typical DA withdrawal.
P.S. I'm a secure style. I just wish I'd known about all this before I met him!
MY Avoidant ex totally did the future faking thing. I never understood it. She would say she wanted to do something. I would either go out and buy tickets, or make plans to go somewhere and she would go avoidant on me. The bottom line, avoid the avoidant. They aren't worth our time or heartbreak .
@@PB-md3nt Yep. I was sitting on a $1500 plane ticket and he still had 2 suitcases full of my stuff - overseas! I was thankfully able to a refund on most of the ticket but getting my stuff back cost me $1000. And this was after my asking him repeatedly, "Are you SURE about this trip?" all while he was cushioning his next "relationship."
The fun part is that I know I am his phantom ex. And I'm armed and ready to respond to his next overture.
My goal isn't to hurt him. I loved him deeply. My goal is to use his vulnerable moment to make him face his issues. I truly hope it helps him - and his relationships going forward.
@@brownell.landrum I know I am her phantom ex. She keeps coming back to me, and has gone out on dates and said it's not me when she goes out with them.
I, too, will not hurt her but definitely will tell her she needs to address her demons..
Happened to me too when I dated a DA. I now run when I meet DA.
Maybe he was a narcissist? Living in a fantasy. I like Sam Vaknin's videos on the subject
I'm becoming more and more secure... It has taken so much beautifully hard work to get here, but I'm okay with that... because I'm here ❤.
It’s insane how I used to be an avoidant but now as I
Getting older in my early 30s I am becoming for secure and clear on what I want and my standards
A secure person equally thinks about both peoples needs…. You sound still DA. Just saying
@@stormyskyz7881😂 ……😂
I am just now getting out of a DA relationship and I cannot wait to get my life back and feel happiness again! The senseless boreout is over 🎉
And now I am noticing how everyone feels like I am texting too little and too slow. That is the damage they caused me. Now working on reclaiming my right to express myself ❤
Could someone please list the actual meanings of the many two letter acronyms that this RUclipsr uses. It is really confusing. Thanks.
@@davidwhyman1189FA fearful avoidant, DA dismissive avoidant, AP anxious preoccupied
@@davidwhyman1189DA is dismissive avoidant
AP- anxious preoccupied
FA- fearful avoidant
SA- securely attached
@@davidwhyman1189DA=dismissive avoidant
AP= anxious preoccupied
FA=fearful avoidant
@@davidwhyman1189 DA - dismissive avoidant. FA - fearful avoidant (also known elsewhere as disorganized attachment). AA - anxious attachment.
I did exactly this. Thank goodness I did it the correct way. So now either he will come around or I’ll eventually meet the guy for me!! Awesome. And thank you!
Cool video, My relationship of 5 years ended a month ago. The love of my life decided to leave me, I really love her so much I can’t stop thinking about her, I’ve tried my very best to get her back in my life, but to no avail, I’m frustrated, I don’t see my life with anyone else. I’ve done my best to get rid of the thoughts of her, but I can’t, I don’t know why I’m saying this here, I really miss her and just can’t stop thinking about her
its difficult to let go of someone you love, i was in a similar situation, my relationship of 12 years ended, but i couldnt just let her go i did all i could to get her back, i had to seek the help of a spiritual counselor who helped me bring her back
Amazing, how did you get a spiritual counselor, and how do i reach her?
Her name is Shelly renee white , and she is a great spiritual counselor who can bring back your ex.
Thank you for this valuable information, i just looked her up now online. impressive
Bot
Exclusivity without the proposal 💍 means absolutely nothing … simply because so many people future faking and that exclusive promise is just for their comfortable access to get to you …
Securely attached person should look at the actions and act accordingly.
That’s all there is to it 🤷🏻♀️
I'm torn on this. I'm AP, he's DA. I had this exact conversation in 4 weeks which triggered his flight response. THANK GOODNESS it did!
He has committed to me but not to marriage…. literally for years. I am frustrated with my own patience, and fed up and yet have been here so long it’s hard to leave… so many mutual friends and family relationships… it pisses me off (at myself.) I never thought I would allow myself to be in this long of a situation.
Frustrated with my own patience is the thing I need to forgive myself for decades of putting up with avoidant man babies.
The ironic thing is, I would get upset about people not wanting to be with me even though I know what I signed up for in the beginning. It's tough to not project feelings of rejection onto a person you want to be with, but you do make sense.
Yes, she acknowledges feelings on both sides of these kind of shituations.
Yep. Did this. I say I just need to know we are both genuinely interested and moving forward together. Of course he says as long as we can move slow, yes, I see a future with you. I’m in love with you. Only to have him now say I deserve better and he’s long gone. I opened my heart and committed while he ran. I’m now trying to figure out why he didn’t take off on the many occasions that we discussed these options before admitting feelings of love for each other. No win here.
Eh, I’m secure and tried it all. Even a second chance after space . When she reached back out I tried for a while to give time and just be chill but weird breadcrumbing, non communication, among other behaviors.
I asked chill a few times , I actually even tested by acting like anxious and pouring it on. We’d talk about bigger plans and when I brought it up to reality, crickets. I pretty much knew where it was going but was more curious. I finally got bored and just said good luck bye. It’s not even worth the effort as a secure. Dont waste your time.
Actions always speak louder than words. It would be nice to try and talk to the avoidant about valuing your own time and expectations regarding where it’s all going but if their actions are showing you already how they feel why seek clarity
Especially if they get triggered by deep conversation and create all kinds of drama.
As someone who is working on being more secure from being an AP, your videos have helped me so much. My communication and trusting myself has really improved. Thank you!
Could someone please list the actual meanings of the many two letter acronyms that this RUclipsr uses. It is really confusing. Thanks.
@@davidwhyman1189 AP is anxious preoccupied attachment
This also applies to any relationship or friendship whether it’s platonic or romantic. As a secure person, I was friends with someone I recognized as avoidant after a while. Her husband and mine got along well. We did things together.
Her words didn’t match her actions though. Constantly creating space and reluctant to make plans, canceling plans without rescheduling, although saying how grateful she was to have me as a friend. Didn’t want to “ruin what we were building” by making plans in general. Wtf?
Anyway I finally spoke up, after she cancelled an important celebration the day before with a lame excuse…said it was evident she didn’t have time to put effort into a close friendship, that I was okay with it, and therefore was more of a casual friend, instead of a close friend. I have room for both. Saying it like this to let her off the hook so if she was feeling stress or whatever, she would hopefully take it better. Her response was no response.
Okay.
Can’t invest in that type of person.
I think you r more anxious she gave you all signals I don’t want a close relationship and you call her avoidant . Of course she avoids you because she doesn’t want more but it isn’t her trait I m sure if she sees her true guy she will never cancel plans
You misread my comment…not a romantic relationship. I’m a female and referring to a female friend who I have realized was avoidant. She knew my husband when they were kids. She reached out to my husband and I to get together. I didn’t know her. She expressed over and over how she had no female friends and how happy she wss to now have a person to connect with. After some time went by it was evident why she had no friends. As I said, her actions didn’t match her words. Expressing desire to connect but wanting to be spontaneous with no definite plans.
I show care for friends by intentionally setting aside time for them, which is why I have many long time friends. Push pull, constant cancelling, keeping space while saying she wanted closeness and constantly needing advice on managing her difficult family members. . All the signs. Can’t be close friends with that type of behavior. So she’s in the casual friend category now.
GREAT POINT and one I don’t think is brought up NEARLY enough, especially considering how crucial, vital even, substantial friendships are in our lives and communities.
Your example is one that I’ve seen popping up here and there unfortunately, this and the ghosting scenario, and they’re both heartbreaking and I’m sorry you went through it. This can be so devastating, particularly for those genuinely seeking (and/or needing) connection, those still learning about friendships in general, and those unnecessarily hurt by repeated acts of UNNECESSARY dishonesty.
I say unnecessary because so often its acts that could’ve been replaced with polite ‘No, thank you’, ‘That’s not something my family’s really into right now but thank you for inviting us,’etc, but INSTEAD people often say YES, RSVP, state ____ is their favorite also, etc., unnecessarily and unprovoked, and worse, this deceitful and harmful behavior is often excused and ‘explained away’ as being “polite” 😳 whereas the person hurt by them, the reaction to the ongoing deceitful behavior, is viewed as “impolite”, and is now somehow in the wrong. 🤦🏾♀️
So lying is ok but ‘truthing’ is wrong?
Yeah. Things have changed quite a bit.
PS - So glad you double checked to clarify just in case because you never know and sometimes people have their own things going on. You are DEFINITELY the type of friend I’d appreciate, a clear communicating one!
@@ars6187 Thank you. Sad thing is, they create the very scenario they fear by sabotaging the friendship...ending up alone! It's great to now understand this issue as I realize I witnessed avoidant behavior a few other times in the past, and recognized the misalignment... but felt confused and decided that it wasn't worth investing time to figure it out.
Anyway, I like to believe there are awesome people who I have yet to meet coming my way!
I’m pretty secure, I do not like to date multiple ppl at once, so I will state that and give my attention to dating one person at a time. I also will not sleep with someone who is sleeping with other ppl, so I guess you could look at that as a commitment? I don’t need months to get to know one person, I have no idea what commitment means in this sense of dating. However, I will not introduce someone to family and friends until I have a good idea of who a person is and that can be a few months.
same
See this is how dating should be. There was a quote I heard that resonated: If you’re dating two people and can’t decide between them, pick the 2nd person. If the 1st person was right for you, there wouldn’t be another person.
I completely agree with you! I don't understand how nowadays folk are seeing multiple people. I mean, why?! I've got no time for that kind of thing. If you're dating you're together, not flitting about from one person to another. It shows an absolute lack of commitment from the other person.
@@lindatannock Yeah, the term I think we use is “emotionally unavailable.” Gal I dated did that, and she’d do it right in front of me which was rude. I never visibly got upset or jealous, but I was so confused and it definitely affected how I treated her - I’m not gonna go all in for someone who’s not all in for me! She told me way afterwards that after me, she decided to not date multiple guys at once again. I was like “gee, thanks”. Wish you could have made that choice while you were dating me… and ofc I felt like I was never enough..
Fascinating! My ex DA was quick to make things exclusive, quick to fantasize abt the future and in a years he wanted me to move in. I’m FA, naturally is was hard for me to trust so quickly before 6 mos. Moving in together I was not fully comfortable. Long story short we broke up. He came back a year later. We moved in, but only for 2 years. His breadcrumbs and gaslighting was driving me bananas.
Video on how secure attachment deals with gaslighting? What is the slippery slope that can make a secure attachment become ANXIOUS when dealing with an avoidant?
Could someone please list the actual meanings of the many two letter acronyms that this RUclipsr uses. It is really confusing. Thanks.
FA = Fearful Avoidant
DA = Dismissive Avoidant
I really needed this video a couple of months ago. I tried to explain to the person in my best possible way that I had the feeling he was drifting apart and had no real interest in getting to know each other. He got very defensive.
10mins 25seconds - that's where how secure attached responds is first mentioned.
Thank you!
I love these videos.
I watch a lot of the DA videos to understand my attachmentstil better and see what behaviour and mechanics I show without activly knowing for working on it.
And the secure videos for role moddeling learning.
In my family there aren't romantic longterm relationships. And the one who exists is extremly toxic... (even most of the platonics were/are highly toxic between my extended family...)
I am extremly lacking these skills, because of a missing socialization and role moddeling...
This is SO helpful. Thank you for the gift you continue to be ❤
Wow you are so spot on,That's how i fell in love with my then fearful avodaint partner, now a secured one, we started as friends then the rest is history thanks thais if it wasn't for your videos,i really don't know you are appreciated 😊😊
Just walk away. Bye...
Me: wMGTOW ⛵ Bye
Same thing
Like someone in the comments said it turns out i am not so insecure that i first tough and i am proud of that fact....however "i don't know i am not sure...or ..i don't like you like that" are still no go for me and a major Red flag ....and it's the point of no return ❤❤❤😊
I’ve stayed because of my feelings for him yes but also because of empathy for his trauma, which he hasn’t shared with me, but clearly exists. As a result I’m almost always the one to initiate contact, especially after an argument. But, how do I know that I’m not being a fool, that he’s taking advantage of my compassion, that it’s not because of his issues/fears that he won’t initiate but just because he is a stubborn, egotistical man who is taking me for granted? I believe he is both DA/FA. I am secure, but he has brought out some anxiety in me.
I am in a very similar situation. I do have so much empathy for my traumatised FA bf, but am I just being a bit too naive and taken advantage of? This thought is so pushing me to the anxious attachment 😢
If you both feel you're losing yourself in the relationship and becoming anxious, talk to them. If they're completely non-committal, walk away, particularly if they're unwilling to get help for their issues. It'll never change. You'll just get more anxious and your needs won't get met. It'll always be like that.
@@lindatannock tysm. On top of which he started flaw-finding when I used the wording “we are together.“ i wish I knew whether he meant it, or fears because of his issues. It was hurtful. Not the first time. :(
Don't walk - run.
@@hotfuzz774 yup. Broke up last night.
Great approach- everything was spot on
thank yoou so much for sharing all of these useful tools and tips. navigating these conversations *are* quite scary, my attachment style is changing back to secure in my developmental life especially previous relationships. the question lingers for me, how do you encourage them to open up to you more, and not hold back. and would you be able to go into how to rebuild trust after trust is damaged in a relationship?
This was very helpful. Thank you!
Amazing perfect discussion script recommendations! ❤❤❤ thank you very much!!!
I have disorganized attachment, both anxious and avoidant, but I lean more towards anxious.
Excellent video!
10:20 I think this is where my attempts at boundaries can be a little over eager. I can feel bad, feel them not being on the same page as me, and I'm hypervigilant to threat. So I'll be like "I'm going to start distancing myself because I feel neglected." And my husband feels pressured. It's nice to be like "I'm noticing this. I'm wanting this and not seeing us stay on the same page. If in the next few weeks I don't see us working together I'll bring it up again. And if it doesn't THEN I'll take a step back." Requires a lot of emotional core strength - because your moood won't shift so severely if they don't show up, since your life is full with others alreafdy.
As an AP I would have the talk with the person but if the needle doesn't move I am gone.I would not have a follow up talk.
I won't even wait 2 months to have that talk. On the first date, I wanna know what you are looking for and have you say it before I let you know what I'm looking for. After that date, that info should help me decide if I should see you again or not or go NC. If we make it past the first date and we keep talking, I'm looking at your actions the whole time; by 6 - 8 weeks, we should already know if we wanna be together. If you still don't know at that point, goodbye. The most I can do is give you a couple of 2 - 4 weeks. After that, byeeeeee! Don't waste your time, it's not worth it.
Was in a situationship with a FA
I tend to lean more anxious but working really hard on being secure.
Relationship started through friendship. I was recently single after being engaged so I knew I didn’t want to rush into anything at the start.
After 2 months of being incredibly close I could sense me catching feelings. She said she was to. So I asked for commitment. We were doing everything a relationship is, just without the label.
She freaked out. Why am I rushing, I’m not chill, all of that rubbish.
Said that if she can’t give me that then I’m wasting my time, so I called it off and walked away
4 weeks past and she messaged. Asking if we could be friends.
I’m not friends with women I recently slept with. And I don’t really wanna watch her play around with someone else. So I held my ground.
It’s really hard because you do miss the person and the memories. We did get on really well. But long term you know it will do you more damage than good if you let them back in
Did you communicate your needs clearly and then give them a chance to process…. May be they got scared initially and realised but having said that ask them clearly the reason they are back…. Communicate respectfully how u feel
Happy to say I'm more secure than I thought but still hurts when the DA runs scared and you have to let go of all the things they told you they wanted for the future at the start. I do also think i could've given them a bit less 'space and time' and reclaimed my own time a bit more but it's all down to learning.
For the past months i’ve been trying to break off with an avoidant. He keeps diverting the conversation. Lol anyways, I decided that I don’t need to verbalize my position in order to have closure. I know this is not for me after two years of getting a really clear picture of who he is. I waited so long because I was so emotionally in love with him. However, it just isn’t going to work for me in the long run. I’m working on my personal finances and looking for some one on my level.
I need to work on saying things like you say them. I find myself being more direct in my approach and I come across very harsh. This is not going to be easy for me but I’ll work on it :)
this is a great video
I wish I had come across this video a lot earlier in life. What does one do when an AP finds out that he is married to a DA 16 years into a marriage and a child is involved? A little over a year ago, I started therapy and have a much better understanding of things but a solution (other than the obvious) still evades me. Thank you #ThaisGibson for #PDS, you are a life saver. Just trying to focus on the child and keeping myself sane, while knowing that this might not be setting the right example.
Occam's razor, my friend.
Could someone please list the actual meanings of the many two letter acronyms that this RUclipsr uses. It is really confusing. Thanks.
@@davidwhyman1189 Go read about the Attachment Theory, you should eventually get to the Anxiety vs Avoidance graph/picture. On that graph/picture you should see; SA - Secure Attachment, AP - Anxious Preoccupied, FA - Fearful Avoidant, DA - Dismissive Avoidant. To the best of my understanding, this has to do with how one perceives themselves vs. how one perceives others. Understanding this has been extremely helpful for me in understanding my marriage. Now there are instances where I feel like Neo from The Matrix, where I can predict (to an extent) how interactions between my wife and others (myself included) are going to end up and I can take the necessary steps to keep my sanity rather than falling back into the anxious-avoidant trap over and over again. While I am not out of the trap yet, it seems that I am able to avoid the worst aspects of being in this trap by understanding the attachment theory. It seems to make the most sense out of all the other things that I have come across in my year long journey to figure out my life. Good Luck!
@davidwhyman1189 You're not the only one! I had to GTS (hahaha Google That Stuff) myself.
FA: Fearful Avoidant
DA: Dismissive Avoidant
AP: Anxious Preoccupied
SA: Secure Attached
You might also see secure, avoidant, resistant, and disorganized. Those largely map to the 4 above, it depends on whose literature someone is quoting (or, trying to distance themselves from)
@@davidwhyman1189
SA=Secure Attached
AP=Anxious Preoccupied
DA=Dismissive Avoidant
FA=Fearful Avoidant/Disorganized
Source: rediscoveringsacredness.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/attachment-styles.jpg
Outstanding modeling, I think you heard my asking for more modeling of secure styles.
Wish I had you in my early dating stages lots of unnecessary bonding and disappointment took place trusting progression would take place csuse I wanted it. Options, and observation are key now no assumptions.
I just separated from an avoident after 9 1/2 months of dating. I asked him if he would be there for me when im sick, and that question pretty much ended the relationship.
The point that sticks out in this video the most is understanding that everyone doesn't have the same timeline. People always tell me I'm not being assertive by waiting for the woman to bring up commitment and I always answer by asking, "how am I supposed to know a person's timeline?" It's so much easier to let the woman bring up commitment or exclusivity so I don't blind sight her before she's ready. Great video!
It's possible that your response: "how am I supposed to know a person's timeline" says a lot about your approach to discussing commitment up to that point.
Typically a secure person will be communicating openly and honestly about exactly that commitment timeline in order to come to a reasonable agreement about what works for both parties.
The fact that there's no communication about this timeline until a person assumes you lack assertiveness could be perceived as a form of avoidance.
However it would depend on how much communication has taken place before this.
A woman dates a man because she wants a powerful confident consistent Caring, responsible leader. She rarely wants to have to lead a relationship to commitment. It feels like shes the mom.Men often dont like being told what to do so women allow him to make good decisions. Polarity helps keep a balance and harmony. Both parties only know if they are right for each other if they are up front about their own values, vision, needs,and lifestyle. Share who you are and desires so know early is this a match....❤
@@oosn0b0ardroo it doesn't matter how you communicate the idea to the individual, what matters is whether or not the individual is ready. Forcing a timeline is not healthy and certainly not what Thais is suggesting. She's saying that you take the timeline into consideration before asking. I've found women will bring up commitment when they're ready which is why I continue dating other women in the meantime.
@@ladyofspa women also don't want to be forced into a commitment they're not ready for. As Thais says in the video, you have to take the other person's timeline into consideration. Since people don't walk around with timelines on their foreheads, it's best to sit back, show up, and wait for them to bring it up. I've seen this post out FAR too many times in the last 10 years for it to be purely coincidence. Couple that with the fact that prior to this time frame I actually was the one to ask for exclusivity (typically around the 2-3 month mark) and was always told it was "too soon." Go figure. My job as a man is to focus on hanging out, having fun, and hooking up. If and when she's ready to be exclusive, she'll let me know. In the meantime, I continue seeing and saying other women as well.
@@sifublack192I couldn't agree more
Great video! Thanks!
I wish I had worded it the way you have. I'm pretty secure leaning AP and he was FA. I told him I want a r/shp, I can wait but I won't wait forever. I'm paraphrasing. Basically put a ticking clock on the table. He got triggered ofcourse. Couldn't stand the perceived pressure and he was just from a bad break up. So he said I should find someone else. It's been one year of on and off no contact. We even dated for a week a year ago. But I still want him and it sucks honestly. It just sucks that I still want this unstable human being in my life 🤦🏾♀
Your eyebrows are ✨wow✨
Those eyebrows would stop anybody 😂
I literally just watched a RUclips short of Elaine drawing on Uncle Leo’s eyebrows in Seinfeld and this stopped me in my tracks! 😳
...
The comments never disappoint.
Can you tell us what your acronyms your using in this video are please? Finding it hard to follow…thanks
Great video!!!
Run. Far. Away. It's that simple. These people are irreparably damaged. Unfortunate, but true.~
How does an avoidant style get better at thinking about the anxious person? Sometimes I feel like i just naturally don't think about the person at the early stages of dating because i'm so used to doing my own thing... and I worry that i'm hurting the other's feelings because we have different expectations around frequency of texting.
Where has this been all my life? I wish this was part of the life skills class in school. Oh well, as long as I'm getting it now.
Especially within the first 9 months to a year...at earliest.
I received this message.
I'm dating and avoidant woman we've been dating for 6 moths and well she says she wants to get married and have kids with me but sometime dealing with the stonewalling for pushing you away kinda makes me feel otherwise , I'm very patient with her and she goes to therapy but still is hard when things go wrong
See....I think ideally the talking stage should be 3 to 6 months. Dating should be 6 months to 2 years prior to determining if this person is ideal for an actual title/label/commitment. The reason I say this for myself is you DO NOT KNOW PEOPLE....A person can literally fake an entire personality for 3 months easily, and have you thinking one thing when it was never that. Hence why I say TAKE YOUR TIME! Yet being in a talking stage/situationship for 2 years IS A WASTE OF TIME. Like again there should be some type of progression.....you should not still be unsure where you stand with someone, still asking what are we 2 years in??! Also this is why I personally subscribe to ethical non-monogamy. Bc again why should anyone waste all their time putting all their eggs into one basket, not having their needs met, etc when they could be talking and mingling with others that's just my two cents on it. Another thing is people need to learn to be HONEST, TRANSPARENT, and COMMUNICATE effectively. My issue is people LIE about being monogamous/ and relationship oriented just so they can have access to consistent sex, instead of keeping things honest and real from the jump. Which is one of the many reasons why many of us end up in situationships we never consented to being in! If we are being honest its predatory behavior and its sexual coercion/abuse. You are using people, leading people on, not being forthcoming and playing games with people to have access to their bodies for sex. That is WRONG, no matter how you try to twist and turn it.
@@PsychedPerspective you speak my language lol. The first point especially. People should understand that dating is a journey, not a sprint. I heard some talking about wanting commitment or at least a guarantee after 2 or 3 months. My female relatives said they wanted the guy to start planning for marriage before the first date ffs! Rushing into things is how you end up in toxic relationships, or situationships.
Dating is a process, where you get to know someone, and vet them.
Polyamory lol ethical non monogamy my 🍑
Relationship with excessive emotional charges, bills make me anxious… I think I can only do friendships
You are too much beautiful for your actual Brows!! ❤
So do people usually sleep together knowing that their sexual partner is likely sleeping with others?
Off topic but I see you would look so good with no make up ,just natural look!
Could this apply to a marriage, on thin ice, with the DA (who WILL NOT admit that she is this style) who has set an ultimatum for the AA? The AA is me who is in the process of self-improvement (for myself as well as the relationship) but without a doubt want to be with my wife. She shows every sign of lacking or wanting intimacy (both from our shaky marriage and seemingly from childhood but I cannot confirm the latter). She claims that it’s my insecurities as to why I want her affection and touch, etc. My argument is and has always been “couple touch each other and are affection and hold hands”.
how should you respond if they say they don't see this as progressing
Secure. Pheeeew!
A secure person walks away from someone who won't commit. Period.
Feels worse as he did commit
We moved in together
And then he backed away and away and eventually out of commitment again
All the while pretending and justifying
All the well setting up other sources, and pretending he wasnt
Sooo angry its waking me up at night
Honestly trust your gut and emotions
Youre not overreacting
If it feels wrong
It is
I’m 4 years in and his avoidant behaviors seems more abusive then avoidant. Being neglectful, yelling, defensive, no interdependence makes me feel like I owe him things, I’m ready to get married he says he is he just treats me like crap I’m gonna move on
I think your ranges are all off . Avoidant can be up to a year or more or never .
There’s no way it’s accurate to accommodate someone’s need to wait 6 months to establish if it’s a relationship or not. That does not make sense because you can’t protect yourself within that time period of not getting attached. In 6 months you can get heartbroken and it’s a waste of time to hang around in case they do want to commit. I did this with a partner for 5 months and it took me two years to fully get over it and I still feel betrayed by it. I would say that person was avoidant and at the same time had some abandonment fears that would get triggered by me not meeting them 100% in every single moment. I would say I was more avoidant but not to the extent that I don’t want connection. I just require a lot of space within the connection. I believe you can rule out someone’s intentions within the first 1 month for sure and even before that based on how they’re showing up and the effort they’re investing. Women get more easily attached so they should not be entertaining someone who doesn’t have a clear direction and sense of how they feel about you. You should be going on dates with multiple people and not sleeping with them until they have shows a genuine interest throughout time. You vet them. They don’t vet you.
I feel to be a securely attached person but i usually commit after 3 weeks if i really like a person. Do you think it could be a redflag for me? Am i falling into anxious attached? I honestly don't keep on dating a person after the second date if i don't feel totally involved since for me a person can be either 100 or 0.
That was my style but I realize I did a disservice to the slow burner shy dudes who probably would have brought me happiness in our relationship. Live and learn. Try out different timelines
Do you have personal development in family development where the family is toxic and narcissistic?
So I am secure and the whole time ppl try to tell me I do those things becouse I am insecure 😏
So cool
What are people’s opinions on friendships after relationships?
In my life I get alot of can we still be friends or why am I throwing away the friendship if dating doesn’t work.
I’m happy walking away and distancing if it doesn’t work but I’m always made to feel bad for 100% removing myself after a breakup
I understand if kids are involved and that sort of thing…
I truly think it depends. I'm good friends with my ex husband. He's a good man, we weren't a good match. I have so much inner work that I want to do, I have zero interest in dating any time soon. I guess time will tell, but I'm grateful for our friendship
I think if you truly care about a person enough to consider partnership with them, it makes sense that you'd stay friends. It doesn't make sense not to, unless a person needs space to protect their feelings for awhile while they heal.
@@the_blue_lotus_portal
Normally they are just acquaintances to me. I wish nothing bad on them.
But when I’m dating I don’t see the need to be in contact with past partners. It feels weird to me.
It’s such a 50/50 topic
Some people are against it
Some people don’t mind
Easy.. They would leave them
What's going on with eyebrows
I think that this resonates with y situation. But we are 17 yr together no marriage no kids. He is 9 yr older, zhen I was to young, was 17 old and he was 25 i didnt know much about love or commitment. But after all this years realised that he has traumas, never reciprocate love, and he is fearful avoidant type and I secure t. I dont know what to do, since he dosent want to go on psycologist therapy, neither wants to work on himself, issues, he just lives in routine, and does not see value in marriage. He does not have emotional inteligence, its so sad, difficult, I m fighting for years for our love. Hes so lukewarm, and dont want to introspect his life, traumas, and past. Im affraid he cannot be good husband or dad if he doesnt heal.
Why are you worried he can't be a good husband if he doesn't want to be a husband?
You can't fix people or stay in a relationship hoping he'll change. This is who he is and you have to prepare yourself for him to be this way forever. If change is going to happen he needs to want it.
@@Fresh_Baked_Bread_Is_Life I understand nor after many years. I was also a people pleaser, when I healed last year or two I see al different. I love him but not as a future husband anymore. it so sad because there are so many years left for trying for love and commitment. But I realised after we talked that he was immature and problems. I was like a toy a seal to comfort him. when he graduated I was so proud of him, with rose glasses thinking he would provide, be better person, future husband, that we would travel together help others. But no he just last ten years had no ambitions, no perspective, he stucked, then routine happend to us etc. its really sad , these last days of time all is hard.Also there is family ho interferre beetwen us, manipulate insinuate things, and that also tired us. Im just seeking for advice for practical steps what to do next .
@@Fresh_Baked_Bread_Is_Life Želi on promjenu iskrenu, no onda kao da ustukne i izgubi se opet u rutini. i više ni sam nezna što bi htio. Želi on bolji život, ali totalno je zbunjen, .I ja mu više ne mogu pomoći, kao da mu fali nešto u glavi. Obavili smo mnogo razgovora zadnjih mjeseci. I više zaista kao da gubimo vrijeme. On živi u rutini, posao kuća hobby spavanje jedenje sve isto. I nema planove, nemamo ušteđevine i on krivi sebe. Kao da nevoli sebe, krivi se za sve i negativizira .
Nemogu to više slušati. Nezna dijeliti ljubav, on uvjek je došao i traži zagrljaj traži poljubac, uvjek kaže ''daj mi ''a ne evo ti Srećom prilično je mirna osoba, da je žestok odavno bi otišla. Ali pošto je on avoidant sa tim ponašanjem i rutinom mi smo emocionalno i duševno sve više odvojeni. Mrtvilo
@@andreamegec9836 I'm sorry. I totally get it. I hope you choose yourself. ❤️
A secure person doesn’t care whether an avoidant commits or not.
😮3-5 months 😮 maybe years….
Could someone please list the actual meanings of the many two letter acronyms that this RUclipsr uses. It is really confusing. Thanks.
Isn’t this more like a business deal and making it more awkward for future conversations?
I feel like if these people are avoidant they need to be avoided. I dont care how its scripted the confrontation is. It's a red flag
I married an avoidant. I made a mistake.
I’m not trying to be rude but why do her eyebrows look like that
What’s wrong with her eyebrows?
I was wondering the same! I mean why
Ok, speaking up clearly if avoidant potential partner is on same page as i do, i got it, but, um, where is romantic part of it? Just stepping up and asking (by other words) "hey, i am interested in long-term romantic partnership, are you interested or not, necause i don"t waste my time here?" sound clunky. I believe that stepping up would scare most women away. What would be next then? "Can i hold you hand, can i kiss you, can we have beutiful romantic sex?" ;)
Please excuse, but the eyebrows are a servere distraction. An exaggeration. But thank bgg you for the information.
2-3 months lmao!!! Ain’t nobody dating/unofficial anyone that long
Try 3 years! Lots of people might do things differently than you do.
Never waste time with someone not on the same page.
2 - 4 months! As a therapist i would call someone who wants to jump into a relationship that fast codependent. There's alot to the other person that's just not known at 2 - 4 months. A year dating is healthy. What you are suggesting in this video is unhealthy in relationships
A year of dating multiple people? I don't think "commitment" means marriage in the context. Just exclusivity.
Actual secure people would have zero interest in the insecure to begin with. Maybe you're not as secure as you thought.
I’m the avoidant 😔 any advice for me?
1st step is acknowledging and admitting it, so well done 👏 This is where your journey begins. Now, the easiest way to start going towards secure is by attending therapy. But if this is not an option for you, there are plenty of resources online. Good luck, you're gonna do great 😊
Yeah, you need to give it time and communication. When you’re feeling overwhelmed, express that to them. If they haven’t confronted their concern already, that is. Otherwise they will assume that you just aren’t very into them or dating other people, and they likely will begin guarding themselves and keeping a distance. In my experience, the avoidant will see this as disinterested and either (FA) come closer for reassurance, which will confuse the hell out of the other person. Or they (DA) will just begin detaching out of self preservation. In actuality, it’s a misunderstanding between them both where disinterest isn’t actually occurring.
Holy eyebrows lady. You have the right idea, but tone it down.