WHAT I LEARNED SINCE MAKING THE VIDEO: -The ability of your brain to recognize your name (or other highly sensitive input) amongst a sea of noise is known as the Cocktail Party Effect. -It turns out that blind people can learn to be great artists. They can learn to use touch, instead of sight, to get feedback while drawing/painting. The original point that you need to be able to give yourself feedback to improve still holds true, but I will need to think of a new analogy. Two books I was recommended on the topic are, “Drawing and the Blind: Perceptions to Touch” by John Kennedy and “Arts Culture and Blindness” by Simon Hayhoe. Here is a relevant video: ruclips.net/video/gllT4dcdjVU/видео.html -It turns out that I’m not as good at recognizing Asian faces as I previously thought. When tested, I did pretty bad. I must have also been using things like mannerisms and fashion to tell Asians apart, not simply the look of their face. My original point about how certain types of conscious experience can, over time, change the way the unconscious mind processes raw sensory data holds true, but I will need to think of a new example. -It turns out that there are studies showing that interaction with a human being is crucial for infants to acquire language. So, if an infant is left alone with a TV playing video of people speaking, they won’t acquire the language. That said, this point doesn’t really change anything fundamental about my argument. My current interpretation is that children require certain conditions in order for language acquisition to happen (such as social interaction), but once those conditions are met, things proceed in the way I talk about in the video. And for adults, these conditions are different. For example, many adults have reached a high level in a foreign language simply through consuming media, without any social interaction. On the other hand, with or without social interaction, adults seem to have to make an active attempt to understand in order to acquire. That said, I have realized that my knowledge of 1st language acquisition is lacking, and plan on studying it more in the future.
I learnt English from ages 8 - now. I used solely immersion from youtube. So that might give a bit of insight into where the boundary lies for when social contact is a necessary factor in language acquisition.
Hey Matt, I got pretty impressed by your knowledge/insights on Neurolinguistics of Bilingualism and Language Learning Psychology! I teach this subjects in a Brazilian university and run a small lab here where we study Psychology of Bilingualism, and many things you talk about in your video I've been discussing with my students here. Idk if you already read Michael Paradis's books on Neurolinguistics of Bilingualism, but it's the scientific basis for many things you said (such as the the difference between Implicit Linguistic Competence (related to grammar rules and dependent on Procedural Memory - basal ganglia) and Explicit Metalinguistic Knowledge (vocabulary, based on Declarative Memory / hippocampus and other brain areas). There is also a very nice book named The Bilingual Brain (Hernandez, 2013) about this topic. I can send them over to you if you like. Congrats on your great job!
The faces thing is fair. I'm betting that you're right and you're subconsciously going more off mannerisms, fashion, possibly even subtleties in facial expressions/movements to tell the differences. I once watched something where they asked a number of Asians from different countries to see if they could correctly identify people from China or Korea, Japan, and so on, and it was pretty much a coin flip. Based on photographs alone they couldn't really tell either.
+Matt vs. Japan "So, if an infant is left alone with a TV playing video of people speaking, they won’t acquire the language", not true, i started watching Disney movies since i was a baby in English, by the time i took English class in 1st grade, i already knew a lot of English along with my native language Spanish. While not living in USA, and parents don't know English. There is this other case of a Russian girl called Angelika Seleznova, she is a youtuber, look her up. At 5 years old, she began to play the PC rpg game of World of Warcraft in English. By the time she was 7 and moved to Ireland, she knew a lot of English, even knew how to read complex sentences, while the other kids were trying to read "Jimmy plays with the ball".
@@gaevren Europeans can spot English people by their hairstyles, style of glasses and (lack of) fashion sense. I've had Dutch people just speak to me in English, before I open my mouth, because I looked English. This happens more in touristy places where there are many foreigners for the locals to notice.
That's how English for me works now, for a... almost a ten years. I almost miss the time, when I could listen to a song and have zero clue how shitty the lyrics are xD
Hommiesyco | Wow. Can you give me any tips? I’m currently learning Japanese. Can you give me things to use to immerse and whether you used subtitles and some tips. Also how long it took for you to understand. ありがとう
Despereaux | So 1 thousand hours? 1000 / 60 = x , x / 20 = amount of episodes I need to watch. And yes I know you don’t mean 1 thousand and you mean like 1000-10000. Thanks though
Jaymes O’Possum i feel like it could depend. I think sometimes a plural thing could be considered one group, and that one is considered singular, but i could be wrong. So maybe either “are” or “were” could be right.
+MaGomes Dandy I'm waiting for Matt to interview Stephen Krashen, Matt will go "w,x,y,z" and he will go "yes, yes, yes, YES!!! My padawan is finally here". Matt is Obi-Wan and Stephen is Qui-Gon Jinn hahaha.
@@voiceofreason5893 Yea but the point was things you can't do yet. Obviously once you have some degree of being able to do something. You get better practicing that thing you can now do.
1st language acquisition does have a plateau: Notice natives of English can understand highly proficient writers with refined and beautiful styles, and yet they would not have the capacity to output in a similar fashion. Without being 'well read', I feel natives only reach a colloquial level of speech (as any level above that is unnecessary for its basic purpose as a tool). Take an extremely simple example: there are hundreds of ways to say 'this is difficult', but only one way is necessary to communicate the gist. My hypothesis is that, for your second language, if you primarily get your immersion from conversational speech, your eloquence with it will be lacking. Conversely, if you actively seek out texts with more refined uses of the language or listen to literary speeches, your flexibility and potential with the language will be deeper.
I am late to the party however I don't think it is the case for all people. I don't know if this is an abnormality, but in my native language I had very high language ability, to the point that I was eloquently speaking like a character out of a book in the 3rd-5th grade of elementary school (when I was around 10-13 years old in my country, which is not English speaking btw), without ever reading a book outside of what school curriculum recommended us minimally. My native language has a lot of spelling difficulties, discrepancies and weird grammar structures, which even native speakers struggle in school or sometimes in adulthood, however it came natural to me. It did carry on in my Japanese learning, I was reading visual novels in my second year of learning(early) and now after 8 years of learning, I also speak like a character from a book there lol. Even though my reading "volume" is probably only 1/10(if not less) of a native speaker, I estimate me having around the same vocabulary, also including active vocabulary. I tried writing a small novel (10000 characters) myself with a pretty good result and in written conversations, long discussions people assume I am Japanese because of the way I talk is too... eloquent to be a foreigner (I remember teaching a person some high level English in Japanese and he told me something along the lines of "even though you are Japanese, how do you know that much about English?" lol, it is rare for a Japanese person to be good at English). English is the only language where I sound kind of sane. But I don't think it is inherently "talent" or anything. It probably solely depends on the subconscious "willingness" of a person to learn a language. I like challenges and learning overall, so my brain naturally "wanted" to learn and use the language skillfully. While yeah, most people are by nature more "lazy". Overall I don't think it is set in stone at all about the "plateau". People who want to learn their native language better do learn it unconsciously, those who don't care, don't.
This was a great upgrade to the "just talking at the camera" style videos. I like those as well, but having specific sections really makes it more comprehensible. It makes it feel like there's constant pay-offs through the video instead of just being a giant speech. This is like a well-structured lecture.
"If you're listening to this right now, you're probably fluent in English, which means you can't help but understand everything I'm saying." That was a mind blowing moment, and right at the beginning too lol.
One thing I think gets overlooked in this notion that babies are somehow"better" at learning languages than adults is that babies experience 100% of all aspects of total immersion from in utero on through childhood and the rest of their lives. They reach the "10,000 hour" milestone for mastery within their first few years of life. Yet, it still takes well into early adulthood before a person reaches their full potential with their native language. Years and years of schooling on their native language, writing, spelling, grammar, casual speech, active and passive listening, all day every day for YEARS. And MANY people still never reach a notably educated level of ability with their native language. Yet, an adult committing sufficient consistent effort to a 2nd language can achieve a command of the language that's above an average native speaker in 5 years or less. The only thing children have going for them is maybe greater brain plasticity. That's about it though.
There are certainly strengths and weaknesses for children vs adults learning a second language. You neglected to mention that children have greater ability to hear unfamiliar sounds. Hearing unfamiliar sounds deteriorates as one ages. That is why people who learn a second language after the age of 16 or 17 (roughly) no matter how much they practice may never learn to speak without a foreign accent.
@@lotlife2448 Somewhat true but you've gotta consider the influence of articulatory settings. Our entire vocal apparatus moulds to our native language. Speaking with a native accent is as much a function of how well you can physically manipulate your tongue, throat, breathing, lips, jaw, etc., to produce all of the sounds of your target language. Our ears hear everything just fine. It's not like we literally can't hear all the different sounds of all the world's languages. That's why IPA exists. To categorize and label those sounds in as thorough a way as possible. Some sounds may have a very subtle difference but they CAN be learned with practice. However, can one train their vocal apparatus to make the sounds properly, without fail, every time, without having to think about it? I think that's the bigger challenge.
Realistically, the main problems adult learners face are as you mentioned, but I'd like to expound on the second point. Sure, as you said, there's often just a lack of time/other things to be preoccupied with, and that's fairly straightforward, but however, for the second problem, I think a lot of it is in the way that we actually still use shortcuts in language learning, some consciously, some not so. When we're learning to speak in another language (specifically in this case, Japanese, but really any will apply with some substitution) most learning material will present to you something like る = ru, and in reality, this is a lie. A lie for the sake of convenience (and also to compensate for text not having sound) but a lie nonetheless. Your brain takes this (and even does it somewhat without romaji) as well, as it's easy. Saying "hey, take this sound I already know and just change it up a bit." The total effort needed for this is about 2 seconds. Whereas if you force it into "hey, replicate this completely new sound and we have almost no clue how to make it" you're now going to have to spend the effort making almost every variation of every phoneme that we can possibly imagine. For babies, this can take months and most of it will be far off the mark. Thankfully adults are smarter than babies and usually have a rough idea of what to do with the mouth to make a certain sound come out, (also there's videos like what campanas de Japanese has) but, regardless, matching a sound perfectly still take hours/days/weeks, and likely feedback from natives, it's somewhat understandable why the brain takes this shortcut lol Even the next level of attempts to help (the Japanese "r" is somewhere between an L and an R) are still wrong Realistically, while nice, the beginning of ら and the others are somewhere between an R, L, N, and D (and that's still kind of a lie) If you divorce the concept of the sound in your target language from being related to any NL sound and just try to accurately replicate exactly what you hear, your pronunciation will be much more authentic.
When you talk about the difference between second and first language learners, there are studies to show that adults block out a certain amount of noise as adults to prevent them from absorbing baby language and speaking gibberish, the interesting thing is apparently when listening to music the part of the brain that blocks this is disabled, so there may be some links to listening to music in your target language and acquisition of sounds/accent. There was a talk about it at the polyglot conference 2018 which I guess will be released within the next 4 months or so on their youtube channel, i'll send it across if I don't forget
I didn’t understand what you’re mentioning, but i feel like it could be important. The study shows that adults brains block out sounds similar to baby babbling, but it gets disabled when listening to foreign language music, so we no longer have a block?
This is the playlist for the 2018 Polyglot Gathering: ruclips.net/p/PL6jCOfzA5WtxEKAKHCVyy4O10cmm4F7NC Sorry I'm unable to link directly to the correct talk. I's not obvious from the titles which presentation talks about this research, and I haven't watched all the talks. There was a talk in 2017 by Anthony Lauder that mentioned some research about music disabling this block, but given that it's not the same year, I doubt this was the talk that Luke was alluding to above. ruclips.net/video/5JTk6xt6Jic/видео.html
This dude has so much knowledge to share. I came here to learn Japanese. But ended up acknowledging that I still have a lot a work to do on my English as well. The best people are those who truly help us grow. thanks Matt
This man is a genius. I've actually used these methods intuitively to learn many things(learning to solve a rubik's cube in just a few hours, learning guitar in a week, 7 programming languages quickly) , and now I am learning Estonian very quickly for fun. The key is intrinsic motivation in which you put all of your focus into the activity, sparing no energy because you have a desire to learn. Use deliberate practice to perfect it incrementally with dedication and no corner cutting because you enjoy the process. The mind is just a wonderful and magical mechanism.
Here's a thought, input in language learning is actually output in the same sense throwing a ball in a hoop is. You have the intent of comprehending and then you asses instantaneously whether you comprehend it - alike the free throw analogy.
within 5 minutes of playing this video, I stopped the other stuff I was doing and just watched this video...it really caught my attention. Not many videos do like that. thank you
Five days ago I started to really jump into active listening and Its skyrocketed my listening comprehension. My brain has finally stopped trying to translate everything and it’s finally just naturally understanding. it’s taken me 8 months to get to this point which is probably much longer than some people but I’m so proud of myself for making it this far. I now understand enough to where I don’t get bored and quit watching and it’s finally starting to click and I’m really happy
Speaking of counsciousness, I am Chinese and trying to learn Japanese, which I have put discrete efforts into over the past few years. Even though being able to speak mandarin is comparably a good base to get started with learning Japanese, I always found there are some kind of barrier when I was trying to learn Japanese due to the nuances betweenn the two languages. However when I try to use English as a bridge to learn Japanese utilizing learning material in English, I find that barrier somehow a little bit lifted.
What I like about you Matt : - You are a fantastic help regarding anything Language aquisition related - This is so pleasant to hear your deep philosophical, scientific and intricate thoughts about anything.
10 years here in Japan and my journey to native level is in full swing. Hope this message finds you. This video taught me so much, will be reading some Steven Krashen too.
The connection between deliberate practice and trying to output the language when you have a near native competency via intuition is so sick. I love when stuff comes together like this.
about part 5. Adults (around 25+) can achieve the high levels of neuroplasticity of teens or even children but while inchildren and teens have its passive and constantly on, adults require focus to activate it. So theoretically if you put enough focus throughout a period of time, I guess you could learn french from leaving the TV on. Edit: my source is Dr. Huberman. He's shown up in a few podcasts like JRE. But he started his own a few months back. Its really interesting stuff.
Helpful af. I've been meditating more so I could watch a lot of German media while paying attention for a longer time. I was able to get through this video too and it's super helpful. I started meditating because you mentioned it was good for language learning. Paying off. Thanks dude!
This applies to so much more than language. It can be used in learning almost any skill. Just watching this video I could draw so many parallels in my own process of learning.
When you said we all have an "unconscious model" of how a language works that really clicked for me. It's like understanding science from the ground up again just with a foreign language. Really though provoking thank you!
45:12 "You take an infant you put French TV on, and if he gets enough exposure, he'll start to be able to understand French." This is a popular myth based primarily on anecdotal stories. However, research in the area of language acquisition shows that interaction with a human being is crucial for infants to acquire language. For example, Patricia Kuhl is one of leading researchers in that area. In her TED talk, she describes one experiment conducted by her lab that showed that exposing infants to a language without any social interaction had practically zero effect: ruclips.net/video/G2XBIkHW954/видео.html It does not mean that videos in a foreign language are completely useless for children. They are useless if they are not preceded by any human interaction. If children had some interaction (even with a non-native speaker), that may be enough (at least, for some children) to go on and acquire the language mostly through videos provided that they receive positive social feedback in doing so. 46:03 "adult brains are a lot more conservative in using that basically language acquisition hardware or software" I have not seen any study that supports the above hypothesis. However, there is a remarkable difference in how young children and adults deal with inconsistencies in language input: "Getting it right by getting it wrong: When learners change languages" by Carla L. Hudson Kam and Elissa L. Newport: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2703698/ Moreover, it appears that this difference is not due to any difference in language specific areas, but rather due to prefrontal immaturity in children: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2855545/
Thank you for your comment. It looks like I was a little ignorant when it comes to 1st language acquisition. I will do more research, learn more about the subject and update my views. It could be that children require certain conditions in order for language acquisition to happen (such as social interaction), but once those conditions are met, things proceed in the way I talk about in the video. And for adults, these conditions may be different. For example, many adults have reached a high level in a foreign language simply through consuming media, without any social interaction. On the other hand, without or without social interaction, perhaps adults have to make an active attempt to understand in order to acquire. Perhaps, "conservative" wasn't the right word, but I think one could make a good case for there being conditions unnecessary for children, yet necessary for adults, in order for language acquisition to happen. Otherwise, immigrants who entirely live their life in their L2 would go on to reach a a level equibilent to a native speaker, when in reality, this almost never happens.
@@mattvsjapan The idea that, with enough exposure, a child would be able to understand a second language, is not unreasonable. After all, if he/she gets enough exposure, he/she will get comprehensible input. After that, it's only a matter of time before understanding happens. Sure, interaction would speed the process greatly, and language production probably requires interaction, but I don't think there is reason to believe that children's brains are incapable of acquiring understanding from mere exposure to language. If that were the case, no child could learn anything from exposure, and that cannot be he case, since interaction alone cannot account for the level of understanding that kids eventually get. I suspect Patricia Kuhl's experiment which showed negligible results may suffer from poor design. If this is the study where American 9 month-olds were subjected to Mandarin videos with no Mandarin-speaking interaction, I think I can see where the flaw lies: the kids were getting constant interaction from English-speakers and, since they were not getting interaction in Mandarin, they simply discarded the Mandarin as useless from a social perspective. Humans are, after all, primarily social animals. However, if the child were not getting ANY interaction at all, and was subjected to equal time with English and Mandarin videos, I strongly suspect both languages would be learned. But I don't think there's any ethical way to test this on 9 month-olds, given that denying a child human interaction is irresponsible at best.
@Language and Programming Channel, Here is the study: www.pnas.org/content/pnas/100/15/9096.full.pdf The point is that infants acquire the language only when they have some social interaction in *that* language. If they interact only in English, having Chinese audio in the background does not help them acquire Chinese.
@@atf300t In other words, their undeveloped brains could've used social interaction as a tool to direct attention toward a particular audio stream perhaps because social interaction is necessary for their basic needs of feeding and care. As a result, the second language was filtered out as background noise as it served no purpose (remember, a language is a tool and its value is measured in its utility - especially to a brain that has no needs other than basic ones). That said, as adults, we can consciously direct our attention to streams of audio that would otherwise be filtered out. Ultimately, some amount of attention needs to be placed on the audio, whether that attention was directed unconsciously via basic needs or consciously is mostly irrelevant (though at least with conscious attention you're aware of it).
Dude.This is the best video on language learning i have ever seen! Amazing. Thanks so much for being fascinated by the process and delivering your insights with such depth and clarity.
I saved this video for three days until i finally check it out. This video is amazing. Thanks a lot for sharing all this info. you have become really good at presenting your thoughts. I watched at least 20 of your videos so far and they have been really inspirational. 4 years to learn a language to a level that I can consume everything, is a little too long for me, and I feel like I can achieve it in 2.5 years. Hope I'm right with this. As I'm at 1.5 years and understand quite a bit already. Recently I found something that really works for me. I wasted at least half a year to find the right tool for me to learn japanese. I love the idea of passive immersion, but I feel like I just don't have enough time for it. As I rather spend 2-3 hours a day actively learning the language, as I just don't e.g. commute, or have idle time. The thing I uses the i+1 that you also talked about in other videos. It's Jalup. Japaneselevelup.com. After I used Heisig to learn the kanji (lazy Kanji). and used at least 10 books on Japanese also plenty of apps. The ones I still use are Anki for the Kanji, Lingodeer for grammar, japanesepod101 for Grammar and listening. But my main driver (after I learned over 1000 sentences on Anki) is Jalup. I love it. i+1 is king. Also there I learn loads of grammar as well, and finally feel like I'm making progress. At this point I have spent easily 700€ on Japanese learning material. And luckily I went to japan to visit a friend as well. Btw gamegrammer (a youtube channel) is also pretty cool, as I can learn japanese, by watching a guy play pokemon and explaining the words an grammar.
Just thought I'd say this is arguably one of the best videos I've watched relating to learning a second language. On a separate note, I wasn't surprised to learn from your other video that you meditate. I'm looking forward to seeing your new channel dedicated to your experience with meditation because it will happen (if it hasn't already.) And if you're ever looking at meditation from a Thai 'strain' of Buddhism, please give me a shout. To my knowledge, there have been a few Thai Buddhist monks who have achieved the state of nibbhan and there is a wealth of materials in meditation that are in Thai. I'm by no means an expert, quite far from it, but I now know that I wouldn't be here without the power of meditation or the knowledge of such. Good job, Matt, and thank you RUclips for having gravitated me towards Matt's channel.
Love your show, Matt! You get language learners switched on to effective input based language acquisition, and that’s what works, so I’m on your team! I have one small bone to pick, though, about what you mentioned around 45:00. Dr. Patricia Kuhl et al at U Washington found that exposing infants to foreign language through passive means live live tv did not affect the infant’s acquisition of that language. Increase in perceptual abilities became significant when the infants had to have some kind of interaction with the screen to keep the videos playing. Babies which felt inclined enough to continue interacting acquired some small part of that foreign language. Some kind of social interaction gates the language brain. Tv alone doesn’t do it. Adults are ready for the abstraction. We can imagine the social rewards that will come from absorbing the language, we can empathize with people we’ve never met, etc. Babies have evolved a built-in filter against absorbing information not key to their relatively immediate social success. Abstractions like tv alone just aren’t good enough for infants, which is why I built, piloted, and continue to improve something that has proven itself to be significantly better than even the ‘patting to play videos’ paradigm that Kuhl used in social language brain of infants research. I’d be happy to share it with you once it’s take-home functional (eta about a month). Thanks, Matt. I wish you and the CI community every success!
This video is one of those very insightful videos you would get recommended from RUclips back in the day, those that are just full of acquirable and very accessible wisdom. I kinda feel like you're so very cultivated and smart because of the way you process the world, which I find particularly awesome, thank you for sharing this, xoxo
This is the single most insightful video I've seen on language learning in general. Coincidently, I've also hit a plateau with my typing (around 70 wpm). Will definitely be looking at improving my learning process.
Probably my favorite video of yours. In my own experience people seem to think I am a natural at picking up languages because I seem to start to understand faster than other people do. I have always disagreed and said I only make progress because I try very hard to listen rather than just hearing noise which seems to be the default for other people. This video is a fantastic explanation of my real world experience and will help me discuss it with other people.
I never set myself any goat, I acquired English accidentally and unconsciously by watched a lot of movies and listened to many audios, gradually after I learnt so many words, one day I realize I don't need the subtitles to understand 80% of the audio message. I lived in solitude for 2 years due to the melancholia, during that time I developed a habit of takling to myself, whether physically or simply talking in my mind, most of the contents are trivial mind thoughts such as "I'm gonna do that", "Did I forgot to turn off the bathroom light" that sort of stuff in my mind, by doing so, I realized I was thinking in English instead my mother language anymore. So after I can listen and think in English, naturally, through a lot of self talking I find it's not a challenge to speak English anymore, and I had a good accent! I can easily distinguish and corret my spelling. But I suffered from grammar errors and I coundn't write properly, so I decided to learn some grammar, by that time, I don't even know the correct way of using "Do" and "Does", my grammar improves and so is my speaking, there are less and less grammar errors in my speaking, I can even read novels！However I could still not write properly, speaking and writing an English essay are two different things, I hope this is fixible, there is anyway I can improve my writing skill?
OH MY GOD, THIS IS YOUR MOST INSIGHTFUL AND USEFUL VIDEO BY FAAAAAR. I SAW IT ENTIRELY. I JUST DISCOVERED THE HOLY GRAIL OF VIDEOS. LOTS OF THANKS FOR THIS GREAT TYPE OF CONTENT.
That was a good example with typing. Some time ago I was trying to improve my typing speed, and while I was trying to type faster and faster, my typing speed was steadily increasing. And when I decided that I had reached my goal regarding my typing speed that was when I hit an ok plateau. I apply the methods you're discussing in your videos for learning English. Deliberate practice is indeed helpful in studying a foreign language.
Very interesting video, a lot of good points. It seems like you're underestimating how much effort goes into children learning their native language, there are a lot of interactive and artificial processes that happen aside from them just listening to the language, think about how much time we spend studying our native language at school, learning to read and write and practicing reading harder and harder books and doing reading comprehension tests and writing tests and so on. We don't just magically get awesome at English and a lot of people suck at English. Adults talk to children in specific ways, we read them children's books and play them children's songs and get them to play games with block letters and all kinds of stuff, slowly, slowly building up children's language abilities through many different methods all the way until they reach adulthood, theres a lot.
After watching this video, I felt the same afterglow as after reading a masterpiece literature. I also have been learning English with cognitive science knowledge for years. I found your way of learning quite similar to mine, and I'm very happy with it. 素晴らしい動画でした！Thanks for making this amazing video!
Ptera half of my comment is a joke, while the other half is not: I understand a lot and can read/listen to a wide variety of native resources still my speaking/writing ability is lacking: I can express myself, but I can’t do it without mistakes. Native level is very-very-veeeeeeery far from where I am at now) Al in all, I was just mostly joking 🙃 (Sorry it’s other account)
Great video regardless of what you learned afterwards, it was nice to hear your thoughts, experiences, own research and ideas shared. really appreciate the time into videos such as this one, keep on doing your thing Matt
Mattさん. Excellent information. One of the best and most instructive video seen so far. Probably (there is nothing i have seen written about it) one way to overcome the “Ok Plateau” is to use your second learned language to go for a third one! For sure in the process will find lot of hole that need to be fill. うわー！いい情報ですね。ありがとうございました。🙇♂️。母語はスペイン語です。
Yes, Matt, so agree. I learned understanding Cantonese by watching Cantonese RUclips Video without even practice speaking, for langugage learning , that works. Now I am starting learning my Hebrew now.
I'm constantly blown away by how interesting and useful your videos are. I'm going to consciously immerse myself in Japanese as soon as I've finished watching all your videos....maybe
Congratulations on the video - couldn't agree more that active immersion and deliberate practice are essential, particularly if you want to attain an advanced level.
I've heard that humans also subconsciously try to mimic what they hear, which is why we are able to hum tunes even if we don't know the notes and precise rhythm they use. I think this relates to this.
Hey, amazing video! About the OK plato and how children get to a native level in their first language, I would like to say this: For them, everything is new and everything is a challenge, because they're knowing the world and experiencing life events for the first time, and these are all new chances to fail. Language isn't only a way to comunicate, but to abstract the reality too.. If we don't have a word for something, it doesn't exist at all. So, I don't think they haven't a OK plato, but instead, they keep doing deliberate practicing just by trying to understand the world around them.
Extremely useful and educational, and easy to understand. This is logical evidence that conscious intention is paramount. I've definitely noticed when I only passive listen I go almost nowhere, and when I laser focus I learn a lot. From the laser focus, my mind knows it's important and is activated to work on passive input. From this video, I just learned how to get to the next level in Japanese and many other skills through deliberate practice. I always knew failing was learning, this just provides more evidence.
I was going to comment on your thought of infants being able to pick up language when left alone by just listening but I see you have updated your opinion in your comments. I would like to add however that if you apply your theory of intentional learning, that infants also do this through context and goals. For example: A mother says "pick up the ball" and points to a ball. The baby cannot give the literal translation of the phrase but through context and a goal of picking up its favorite ball. Now the desire to understand this phrase to get this reward next time is brought from the subconscious to the concious part of the brain through active practice. Ie the you buy a red car you see red cars example. I would love to create this exact scenario in a vr game of learning languages. Where you are literally this kid growing up in your target languages country. Love the video. Subd.
11:00 so true now that i think of that, I cant remember how english sounded when it was all giberish. I remember not understanding anything but I cant remember what it actually sounded like. For example if I go watch something in indian it will sound giberish but I cant remember english sounding like that to me. I know it did but idk how it was, thats very interesting, also this is one reason why I love your videos, it's because you make me realize "obvious" things that are not so obvious and I have learnt a lot with you. With this said i think i ve watched 90% of your videos and I love every single one of them. If you somehow see this comment please read my comment at your 3 hour video, I got a lot to say there.
Man, this is now a passion of mine This whole output input thing If you doubting what Matt is saying here, you either on drugs or you need to be If you need any proof, go to a friend that speaks a broken second language, tell him/her to curse, say a swear word/phrase....i bet you he/she will enunciate it perfectly Every language learner, no matter their level, pays extra careful attention in swearing... Whether jokingly or for self defense (it's fun to swear right? We can be immature, we're only humans) Whereas if you ask the same friend to say something like "my name is" or "the weather is great"...they won't get the perfect pronunciation
Matt, the work you have done so far and what you are doing, it is so impressive, inspiring, thank you for sharing your knowledge, passion, discoveries to the world. One of the deepest and sincerest channels I have encountered on youtube so far
very good content- great video but will need to listen again as lots of good points. thankyou for all the reading info , I must get a hold of some of the books you mentioned
Great video! Listened to it aptly from start to finish. I’ve been applying a lot of your ideas to learning Spanish and it’s really helped. I deemphasized iTalki lessons and bumped up my input dramatically-lots of reading and lots of listening (both passive and active) and my comprehension is markedly improving.
Epic explanation. Thanks. That's the second time on this channel that I have the feeling to have found gold (first time was the meditation video). And simultaneously I figured out how to decrypt the subtitle data on DaiWeeb into processable JSON, yay. Today is a good day.
Definitely psych yourself up for language learning, never beat yourself up, and celebrate every small victory, when you are really good you will celebrate even small mistakes because you will see how valuable they are in helping your discernment. 日本語は書かれた文章と話されてる言葉もありますね。CadenceとRhythmを勉強しなきゃはいけないが、おしゃった通り日本語はぞれぞれの練習が必要です。ピッチとイトーネーションが歌のように美しい日本語を話す人もいますね。歌のように聞こえるように頑張ろう！
I find it interesting how the optimal way to learn something specific like the chick sex recognition example is exactly supervise learning with neural networks. Basically, having an oracle telling the right answer would be what we call knowledge distillation from a teacher network to a student network.
Dude! I've just realized the language I've been learning for several years now (on and off) has pitch accent too :) I'm actually happy about it because before I didn't have a way of 'quantifying' how shitty my pronunciation in Norwegian was :) I'm gonna start working on it ASAP. Thanks!
WHAT I LEARNED SINCE MAKING THE VIDEO:
-The ability of your brain to recognize your name (or other highly sensitive input) amongst a sea of noise is known as the Cocktail Party Effect.
-It turns out that blind people can learn to be great artists. They can learn to use touch, instead of sight, to get feedback while drawing/painting. The original point that you need to be able to give yourself feedback to improve still holds true, but I will need to think of a new analogy. Two books I was recommended on the topic are, “Drawing and the Blind: Perceptions to Touch” by John Kennedy and “Arts Culture and Blindness” by Simon Hayhoe. Here is a relevant video: ruclips.net/video/gllT4dcdjVU/видео.html
-It turns out that I’m not as good at recognizing Asian faces as I previously thought. When tested, I did pretty bad. I must have also been using things like mannerisms and fashion to tell Asians apart, not simply the look of their face. My original point about how certain types of conscious experience can, over time, change the way the unconscious mind processes raw sensory data holds true, but I will need to think of a new example.
-It turns out that there are studies showing that interaction with a human being is crucial for infants to acquire language. So, if an infant is left alone with a TV playing video of people speaking, they won’t acquire the language. That said, this point doesn’t really change anything fundamental about my argument. My current interpretation is that children require certain conditions in order for language acquisition to happen (such as social interaction), but once those conditions are met, things proceed in the way I talk about in the video. And for adults, these conditions are different. For example, many adults have reached a high level in a foreign language simply through consuming media, without any social interaction. On the other hand, with or without social interaction, adults seem to have to make an active attempt to understand in order to acquire. That said, I have realized that my knowledge of 1st language acquisition is lacking, and plan on studying it more in the future.
I learnt English from ages 8 - now. I used solely immersion from youtube. So that might give a bit of insight into where the boundary lies for when social contact is a necessary factor in language acquisition.
Hey Matt, I got pretty impressed by your knowledge/insights on Neurolinguistics of Bilingualism and Language Learning Psychology! I teach this subjects in a Brazilian university and run a small lab here where we study Psychology of Bilingualism, and many things you talk about in your video I've been discussing with my students here. Idk if you already read Michael Paradis's books on Neurolinguistics of Bilingualism, but it's the scientific basis for many things you said (such as the the difference between Implicit Linguistic Competence (related to grammar rules and dependent on Procedural Memory - basal ganglia) and Explicit Metalinguistic Knowledge (vocabulary, based on Declarative Memory / hippocampus and other brain areas). There is also a very nice book named The Bilingual Brain (Hernandez, 2013) about this topic. I can send them over to you if you like. Congrats on your great job!
The faces thing is fair. I'm betting that you're right and you're subconsciously going more off mannerisms, fashion, possibly even subtleties in facial expressions/movements to tell the differences. I once watched something where they asked a number of Asians from different countries to see if they could correctly identify people from China or Korea, Japan, and so on, and it was pretty much a coin flip. Based on photographs alone they couldn't really tell either.
+Matt vs. Japan "So, if an infant is left alone with a TV playing video of people speaking, they won’t acquire the language", not true, i started watching Disney movies since i was a baby in English, by the time i took English class in 1st grade, i already knew a lot of English along with my native language Spanish. While not living in USA, and parents don't know English.
There is this other case of a Russian girl called Angelika Seleznova, she is a youtuber, look her up. At 5 years old, she began to play the PC rpg game of World of Warcraft in English. By the time she was 7 and moved to Ireland, she knew a lot of English, even knew how to read complex sentences, while the other kids were trying to read "Jimmy plays with the ball".
@@gaevren Europeans can spot English people by their hairstyles, style of glasses and (lack of) fashion sense. I've had Dutch people just speak to me in English, before I open my mouth, because I looked English. This happens more in touristy places where there are many foreigners for the locals to notice.
"Now when I hear Japanese, it's similar to how I hear English. I Immediately understand it."
This gives me hope to carry on😁
That's how English for me works now, for a... almost a ten years. I almost miss the time, when I could listen to a song and have zero clue how shitty the lyrics are xD
Hommiesyco | Wow. Can you give me any tips? I’m currently learning Japanese. Can you give me things to use to immerse and whether you used subtitles and some tips. Also how long it took for you to understand. ありがとう
Despereaux | So 1 thousand hours? 1000 / 60 = x , x / 20 = amount of episodes I need to watch. And yes I know you don’t mean 1 thousand and you mean like 1000-10000. Thanks though
DESS DESS dead wrong correction babe, “are” was perfectly correct
Jaymes O’Possum i feel like it could depend. I think sometimes a plural thing could be considered one group, and that one is considered singular, but i could be wrong. So maybe either “are” or “were” could be right.
The most underrated youtuber, in history...
+MaGomes Dandy
I'm waiting for Matt to interview Stephen Krashen, Matt will go "w,x,y,z" and he will go "yes, yes, yes, YES!!! My padawan is finally here". Matt is Obi-Wan and Stephen is Qui-Gon Jinn hahaha.
He give you a heart lol
@@frozenpunchstarxd5717 he already did
对对！yes！
sí ... es cierto
The biggest threat to my deliberate practice is 1hr+ long videos in English on language acquisition that I want to watch 😣
I really wish they had french subtitles lol
I need Spanish and Japanese subtitles. Lol.
I wish this was all in chinese
@@maureenmiaullis6427 yhh.. Spanish
Right. But there's no content like this, in Malayalam.
"You have to practise things you can't do yet in order to actually get better" Awesome quote!
Although you can also get better at things you CAN do by practicing them too.
Watafu- that quote is common sense
@@voiceofreason5893 Yea but the point was things you can't do yet. Obviously once you have some degree of being able to do something. You get better practicing that thing you can now do.
1st language acquisition does have a plateau: Notice natives of English can understand highly proficient writers with refined and beautiful styles, and yet they would not have the capacity to output in a similar fashion. Without being 'well read', I feel natives only reach a colloquial level of speech (as any level above that is unnecessary for its basic purpose as a tool). Take an extremely simple example: there are hundreds of ways to say 'this is difficult', but only one way is necessary to communicate the gist.
My hypothesis is that, for your second language, if you primarily get your immersion from conversational speech, your eloquence with it will be lacking. Conversely, if you actively seek out texts with more refined uses of the language or listen to literary speeches, your flexibility and potential with the language will be deeper.
I believe he quickly corrects and mentions in passing, that native language speakers can plateau.
Great comment. I can’t agree more. I wish I could express myself this way in English as it’s my second language.
I am late to the party however I don't think it is the case for all people. I don't know if this is an abnormality, but in my native language I had very high language ability, to the point that I was eloquently speaking like a character out of a book in the 3rd-5th grade of elementary school (when I was around 10-13 years old in my country, which is not English speaking btw), without ever reading a book outside of what school curriculum recommended us minimally. My native language has a lot of spelling difficulties, discrepancies and weird grammar structures, which even native speakers struggle in school or sometimes in adulthood, however it came natural to me. It did carry on in my Japanese learning, I was reading visual novels in my second year of learning(early) and now after 8 years of learning, I also speak like a character from a book there lol. Even though my reading "volume" is probably only 1/10(if not less) of a native speaker, I estimate me having around the same vocabulary, also including active vocabulary. I tried writing a small novel (10000 characters) myself with a pretty good result and in written conversations, long discussions people assume I am Japanese because of the way I talk is too... eloquent to be a foreigner (I remember teaching a person some high level English in Japanese and he told me something along the lines of "even though you are Japanese, how do you know that much about English?" lol, it is rare for a Japanese person to be good at English). English is the only language where I sound kind of sane. But I don't think it is inherently "talent" or anything. It probably solely depends on the subconscious "willingness" of a person to learn a language. I like challenges and learning overall, so my brain naturally "wanted" to learn and use the language skillfully. While yeah, most people are by nature more "lazy". Overall I don't think it is set in stone at all about the "plateau". People who want to learn their native language better do learn it unconsciously, those who don't care, don't.
This was a great upgrade to the "just talking at the camera" style videos.
I like those as well, but having specific sections really makes it more comprehensible. It makes it feel like there's constant pay-offs through the video instead of just being a giant speech. This is like a well-structured lecture.
"If you're listening to this right now, you're probably fluent in English, which means you can't help but understand everything I'm saying." That was a mind blowing moment, and right at the beginning too lol.
Scrolled down and saw this the second I came across that part
Yep! And then when he spoke about Japanese sounding like mush until it didn’t, and that he couldn’t remember how it sounded before understanding = 🤯
this exact same thing happened to me when I reached the fluency in english
I have no problem understanding but talking is much worse
Well that was kinda satisfying to hear, as English is my second language 😂
One thing I think gets overlooked in this notion that babies are somehow"better" at learning languages than adults is that babies experience 100% of all aspects of total immersion from in utero on through childhood and the rest of their lives. They reach the "10,000 hour" milestone for mastery within their first few years of life. Yet, it still takes well into early adulthood before a person reaches their full potential with their native language. Years and years of schooling on their native language, writing, spelling, grammar, casual speech, active and passive listening, all day every day for YEARS. And MANY people still never reach a notably educated level of ability with their native language.
Yet, an adult committing sufficient consistent effort to a 2nd language can achieve a command of the language that's above an average native speaker in 5 years or less.
The only thing children have going for them is maybe greater brain plasticity. That's about it though.
There are certainly strengths and weaknesses for children vs adults learning a second language. You neglected to mention that children have greater ability to hear unfamiliar sounds. Hearing unfamiliar sounds deteriorates as one ages. That is why people who learn a second language after the age of 16 or 17 (roughly) no matter how much they practice may never learn to speak without a foreign accent.
@@lotlife2448 Somewhat true but you've gotta consider the influence of articulatory settings. Our entire vocal apparatus moulds to our native language. Speaking with a native accent is as much a function of how well you can physically manipulate your tongue, throat, breathing, lips, jaw, etc., to produce all of the sounds of your target language. Our ears hear everything just fine. It's not like we literally can't hear all the different sounds of all the world's languages. That's why IPA exists. To categorize and label those sounds in as thorough a way as possible. Some sounds may have a very subtle difference but they CAN be learned with practice. However, can one train their vocal apparatus to make the sounds properly, without fail, every time, without having to think about it? I think that's the bigger challenge.
@@spacevspitch4028 "Somewhat true" - hilarious. Absolutely true.
Even I noticed when Matt said "more fast" that's a clear example. No one speaks a language perfectly.
Realistically, the main problems adult learners face are as you mentioned, but I'd like to expound on the second point.
Sure, as you said, there's often just a lack of time/other things to be preoccupied with, and that's fairly straightforward, but however, for the second problem, I think a lot of it is in the way that we actually still use shortcuts in language learning, some consciously, some not so.
When we're learning to speak in another language (specifically in this case, Japanese, but really any will apply with some substitution) most learning material will present to you something like る = ru, and in reality, this is a lie.
A lie for the sake of convenience (and also to compensate for text not having sound) but a lie nonetheless. Your brain takes this (and even does it somewhat without romaji) as well, as it's easy. Saying "hey, take this sound I already know and just change it up a bit." The total effort needed for this is about 2 seconds. Whereas if you force it into "hey, replicate this completely new sound and we have almost no clue how to make it" you're now going to have to spend the effort making almost every variation of every phoneme that we can possibly imagine. For babies, this can take months and most of it will be far off the mark.
Thankfully adults are smarter than babies and usually have a rough idea of what to do with the mouth to make a certain sound come out, (also there's videos like what campanas de Japanese has) but, regardless, matching a sound perfectly still take hours/days/weeks, and likely feedback from natives, it's somewhat understandable why the brain takes this shortcut lol
Even the next level of attempts to help (the Japanese "r" is somewhere between an L and an R) are still wrong
Realistically, while nice, the beginning of ら and the others are somewhere between an R, L, N, and D (and that's still kind of a lie)
If you divorce the concept of the sound in your target language from being related to any NL sound and just try to accurately replicate exactly what you hear, your pronunciation will be much more authentic.
When you talk about the difference between second and first language learners, there are studies to show that adults block out a certain amount of noise as adults to prevent them from absorbing baby language and speaking gibberish, the interesting thing is apparently when listening to music the part of the brain that blocks this is disabled, so there may be some links to listening to music in your target language and acquisition of sounds/accent. There was a talk about it at the polyglot conference 2018 which I guess will be released within the next 4 months or so on their youtube channel, i'll send it across if I don't forget
Its been 4 months any updates?
That's very interesting
@@mikemustmurder just go search by yourself on their youtube channel. Polyglot Gathering.
I didn’t understand what you’re mentioning, but i feel like it could be important. The study shows that adults brains block out sounds similar to baby babbling, but it gets disabled when listening to foreign language music, so we no longer have a block?
This is the playlist for the 2018 Polyglot Gathering: ruclips.net/p/PL6jCOfzA5WtxEKAKHCVyy4O10cmm4F7NC
Sorry I'm unable to link directly to the correct talk. I's not obvious from the titles which presentation talks about this research, and I haven't watched all the talks.
There was a talk in 2017 by Anthony Lauder that mentioned some research about music disabling this block, but given that it's not the same year, I doubt this was the talk that Luke was alluding to above.
ruclips.net/video/5JTk6xt6Jic/видео.html
This dude has so much knowledge to share. I came here to learn Japanese. But ended up acknowledging that I still have a lot a work to do on my English as well. The best people are those who truly help us grow. thanks Matt
This man is a genius. I've actually used these methods intuitively to learn many things(learning to solve a rubik's cube in just a few hours, learning guitar in a week, 7 programming languages quickly) , and now I am learning Estonian very quickly for fun. The key is intrinsic motivation in which you put all of your focus into the activity, sparing no energy because you have a desire to learn. Use deliberate practice to perfect it incrementally with dedication and no corner cutting because you enjoy the process. The mind is just a wonderful and magical mechanism.
Here's a thought, input in language learning is actually output in the same sense throwing a ball in a hoop is. You have the intent of comprehending and then you asses instantaneously whether you comprehend it - alike the free throw analogy.
I agree with this line of thinking
Close your eyes, imagine it's a TED talk. You can't because it's better than a TED talk.
"Learning how to sex chicks". I was spacing out for a minute there but my unconscious mind picked up on that one. 😂
Matt, this is hands down the most helpful language-learning video I've ever seen. Thank you!
I am 9 minutes into the video and cant understand why you told people not to watch. This is pure GOLD 😊❤
Language acquisition podcast essentially. Nice.
within 5 minutes of playing this video, I stopped the other stuff I was doing and just watched this video...it really caught my attention. Not many videos do like that. thank you
Five days ago I started to really jump into active listening and Its skyrocketed my listening comprehension. My brain has finally stopped trying to translate everything and it’s finally just naturally understanding. it’s taken me 8 months to get to this point which is probably much longer than some people but I’m so proud of myself for making it this far.
I now understand enough to where I don’t get bored and quit watching and it’s finally starting to click and I’m really happy
Speaking of counsciousness, I am Chinese and trying to learn Japanese, which I have put discrete efforts into over the past few years. Even though being able to speak mandarin is comparably a good base to get started with learning Japanese, I always found there are some kind of barrier when I was trying to learn Japanese due to the nuances betweenn the two languages. However when I try to use English as a bridge to learn Japanese utilizing learning material in English, I find that barrier somehow a little bit lifted.
What I like about you Matt :
- You are a fantastic help regarding anything Language aquisition related
- This is so pleasant to hear your deep philosophical, scientific and intricate thoughts about anything.
10 years here in Japan and my journey to native level is in full swing. Hope this message finds you. This video taught me so much, will be reading some Steven Krashen too.
Dude the things i learn from your videos are almost non existence anywhere else
The connection between deliberate practice and trying to output the language when you have a near native competency via intuition is so sick. I love when stuff comes together like this.
"it's probably gonna be a little bit tough to really follow all of my logic." challenge accepted
about part 5. Adults (around 25+) can achieve the high levels of neuroplasticity of teens or even children but while inchildren and teens have its passive and constantly on, adults require focus to activate it. So theoretically if you put enough focus throughout a period of time, I guess you could learn french from leaving the TV on.
Edit: my source is Dr. Huberman. He's shown up in a few podcasts like JRE. But he started his own a few months back. Its really interesting stuff.
Helpful af. I've been meditating more so I could watch a lot of German media while paying attention for a longer time. I was able to get through this video too and it's super helpful. I started meditating because you mentioned it was good for language learning. Paying off. Thanks dude!
Probably some the only videos that are 1hr+ that I can watch through and stay interested - as always, very nice!
This applies to so much more than language. It can be used in learning almost any skill. Just watching this video I could draw so many parallels in my own process of learning.
When you said we all have an "unconscious model" of how a language works that really clicked for me. It's like understanding science from the ground up again just with a foreign language. Really though provoking thank you!
45:12 "You take an infant you put French TV on, and if he gets enough exposure, he'll start to be able to understand French."
This is a popular myth based primarily on anecdotal stories. However, research in the area of language acquisition shows that interaction with a human being is crucial for infants to acquire language. For example, Patricia Kuhl is one of leading researchers in that area. In her TED talk, she describes one experiment conducted by her lab that showed that exposing infants to a language without any social interaction had practically zero effect: ruclips.net/video/G2XBIkHW954/видео.html
It does not mean that videos in a foreign language are completely useless for children. They are useless if they are not preceded by any human interaction. If children had some interaction (even with a non-native speaker), that may be enough (at least, for some children) to go on and acquire the language mostly through videos provided that they receive positive social feedback in doing so.
46:03 "adult brains are a lot more conservative in using that basically language acquisition hardware or software"
I have not seen any study that supports the above hypothesis. However, there is a remarkable difference in how young children and adults deal with inconsistencies in language input: "Getting it right by getting it wrong: When learners change languages" by Carla L. Hudson Kam and Elissa L. Newport: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2703698/
Moreover, it appears that this difference is not due to any difference in language specific areas, but rather due to prefrontal immaturity in children: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2855545/
Thank you for your comment. It looks like I was a little ignorant when it comes to 1st language acquisition. I will do more research, learn more about the subject and update my views.
It could be that children require certain conditions in order for language acquisition to happen (such as social interaction), but once those conditions are met, things proceed in the way I talk about in the video. And for adults, these conditions may be different. For example, many adults have reached a high level in a foreign language simply through consuming media, without any social interaction. On the other hand, without or without social interaction, perhaps adults have to make an active attempt to understand in order to acquire.
Perhaps, "conservative" wasn't the right word, but I think one could make a good case for there being conditions unnecessary for children, yet necessary for adults, in order for language acquisition to happen. Otherwise, immigrants who entirely live their life in their L2 would go on to reach a a level equibilent to a native speaker, when in reality, this almost never happens.
@@mattvsjapan The idea that, with enough exposure, a child would be able to understand a second language, is not unreasonable. After all, if he/she gets enough exposure, he/she will get comprehensible input. After that, it's only a matter of time before understanding happens. Sure, interaction would speed the process greatly, and language production probably requires interaction, but I don't think there is reason to believe that children's brains are incapable of acquiring understanding from mere exposure to language. If that were the case, no child could learn anything from exposure, and that cannot be he case, since interaction alone cannot account for the level of understanding that kids eventually get.
I suspect Patricia Kuhl's experiment which showed negligible results may suffer from poor design. If this is the study where American 9 month-olds were subjected to Mandarin videos with no Mandarin-speaking interaction, I think I can see where the flaw lies: the kids were getting constant interaction from English-speakers and, since they were not getting interaction in Mandarin, they simply discarded the Mandarin as useless from a social perspective. Humans are, after all, primarily social animals. However, if the child were not getting ANY interaction at all, and was subjected to equal time with English and Mandarin videos, I strongly suspect both languages would be learned. But I don't think there's any ethical way to test this on 9 month-olds, given that denying a child human interaction is irresponsible at best.
Prometheus you- buddy we have a word for he/she.... it’s they 😧 pls.... say they.... it’s easier to type and easier to read
@Language and Programming Channel,
Here is the study: www.pnas.org/content/pnas/100/15/9096.full.pdf
The point is that infants acquire the language only when they have some social interaction in *that* language. If they interact only in English, having Chinese audio in the background does not help them acquire Chinese.
@@atf300t In other words, their undeveloped brains could've used social interaction as a tool to direct attention toward a particular audio stream perhaps because social interaction is necessary for their basic needs of feeding and care. As a result, the second language was filtered out as background noise as it served no purpose (remember, a language is a tool and its value is measured in its utility - especially to a brain that has no needs other than basic ones). That said, as adults, we can consciously direct our attention to streams of audio that would otherwise be filtered out. Ultimately, some amount of attention needs to be placed on the audio, whether that attention was directed unconsciously via basic needs or consciously is mostly irrelevant (though at least with conscious attention you're aware of it).
Dude.This is the best video on language learning i have ever seen! Amazing. Thanks so much for being fascinated by the process and delivering your insights with such depth and clarity.
An hour and 17 minutes well spent! Well put man.
Extremely interesting and educational video, bravo. I have been thinking about this a lot in doing MIA.
I saved this video for three days until i finally check it out. This video is amazing. Thanks a lot for sharing all this info. you have become really good at presenting your thoughts. I watched at least 20 of your videos so far and they have been really inspirational.
4 years to learn a language to a level that I can consume everything, is a little too long for me, and I feel like I can achieve it in 2.5 years. Hope I'm right with this. As I'm at 1.5 years and understand quite a bit already.
Recently I found something that really works for me. I wasted at least half a year to find the right tool for me to learn japanese.
I love the idea of passive immersion, but I feel like I just don't have enough time for it. As I rather spend 2-3 hours a day actively learning the language, as I just don't e.g. commute, or have idle time.
The thing I uses the i+1 that you also talked about in other videos. It's Jalup. Japaneselevelup.com. After I used Heisig to learn the kanji (lazy Kanji). and used at least 10 books on Japanese also plenty of apps. The ones I still use are Anki for the Kanji, Lingodeer for grammar, japanesepod101 for Grammar and listening.
But my main driver (after I learned over 1000 sentences on Anki) is Jalup.
I love it. i+1 is king. Also there I learn loads of grammar as well, and finally feel like I'm making progress.
At this point I have spent easily 700€ on Japanese learning material. And luckily I went to japan to visit a friend as well.
Btw gamegrammer (a youtube channel) is also pretty cool, as I can learn japanese, by watching a guy play pokemon and explaining the words an grammar.
Just thought I'd say this is arguably one of the best videos I've watched relating to learning a second language. On a separate note, I wasn't surprised to learn from your other video that you meditate. I'm looking forward to seeing your new channel dedicated to your experience with meditation because it will happen (if it hasn't already.) And if you're ever looking at meditation from a Thai 'strain' of Buddhism, please give me a shout. To my knowledge, there have been a few Thai Buddhist monks who have achieved the state of nibbhan and there is a wealth of materials in meditation that are in Thai. I'm by no means an expert, quite far from it, but I now know that I wouldn't be here without the power of meditation or the knowledge of such. Good job, Matt, and thank you RUclips for having gravitated me towards Matt's channel.
Very fun listen, thanks for your thoughts on this topic Matt!
Love your show, Matt! You get language learners switched on to effective input based language acquisition, and that’s what works, so I’m on your team! I have one small bone to pick, though, about what you mentioned around 45:00. Dr. Patricia Kuhl et al at U Washington found that exposing infants to foreign language through passive means live live tv did not affect the infant’s acquisition of that language. Increase in perceptual abilities became significant when the infants had to have some kind of interaction with the screen to keep the videos playing. Babies which felt inclined enough to continue interacting acquired some small part of that foreign language. Some kind of social interaction gates the language brain. Tv alone doesn’t do it. Adults are ready for the abstraction. We can imagine the social rewards that will come from absorbing the language, we can empathize with people we’ve never met, etc. Babies have evolved a built-in filter against absorbing information not key to their relatively immediate social success. Abstractions like tv alone just aren’t good enough for infants, which is why I built, piloted, and continue to improve something that has proven itself to be significantly better than even the ‘patting to play videos’ paradigm that Kuhl used in social language brain of infants research. I’d be happy to share it with you once it’s take-home functional (eta about a month). Thanks, Matt. I wish you and the CI community every success!
This changed how i approach learning any skill, thanks for sharing this
This video is one of those very insightful videos you would get recommended from RUclips back in the day, those that are just full of acquirable and very accessible wisdom. I kinda feel like you're so very cultivated and smart because of the way you process the world, which I find particularly awesome, thank you for sharing this, xoxo
This is the single most insightful video I've seen on language learning in general. Coincidently, I've also hit a plateau with my typing (around 70 wpm). Will definitely be looking at improving my learning process.
Probably my favorite video of yours. In my own experience people seem to think I am a natural at picking up languages because I seem to start to understand faster than other people do. I have always disagreed and said I only make progress because I try very hard to listen rather than just hearing noise which seems to be the default for other people. This video is a fantastic explanation of my real world experience and will help me discuss it with other people.
I watched this video multiple times. I am learning English. However, I found the content of this channel very helpful. Please make more videos Matt!
the best Vedic I have ever watched about language learning! Thanks Matt!
It isn't a question that I'd have thought to ask, but I'm glad someone did because now we have this video. This helped, thanks a bunch Matt
I never set myself any goat, I acquired English accidentally and unconsciously by watched a lot of movies and listened to many audios, gradually after I learnt so many words, one day I realize I don't need the subtitles to understand 80% of the audio message. I lived in solitude for 2 years due to the melancholia, during that time I developed a habit of takling to myself, whether physically or simply talking in my mind, most of the contents are trivial mind thoughts such as "I'm gonna do that", "Did I forgot to turn off the bathroom light" that sort of stuff in my mind, by doing so, I realized I was thinking in English instead my mother language anymore. So after I can listen and think in English, naturally, through a lot of self talking I find it's not a challenge to speak English anymore, and I had a good accent! I can easily distinguish and corret my spelling. But I suffered from grammar errors and I coundn't write properly, so I decided to learn some grammar, by that time, I don't even know the correct way of using "Do" and "Does", my grammar improves and so is my speaking, there are less and less grammar errors in my speaking, I can even read novels！However I could still not write properly, speaking and writing an English essay are two different things, I hope this is fixible, there is anyway I can improve my writing skill?
マット。この動画を何度も見直しています。自分は英語を教える仕事をしていますが、まさに「OK plateau」で満足していて全然努力が足りないことに気づきました。
初心に返って勉強します。ありがとう!
OH MY GOD, THIS IS YOUR MOST INSIGHTFUL AND USEFUL VIDEO BY FAAAAAR. I SAW IT ENTIRELY. I JUST DISCOVERED THE HOLY GRAIL OF VIDEOS. LOTS OF THANKS FOR THIS GREAT TYPE OF CONTENT.
This video is goated in language learning community history
That was a good example with typing. Some time ago I was trying to improve my typing speed, and while I was trying to type faster and faster, my typing speed was steadily increasing. And when I decided that I had reached my goal regarding my typing speed that was when I hit an ok plateau. I apply the methods you're discussing in your videos for learning English. Deliberate practice is indeed helpful in studying a foreign language.
This is by faaaar THE best video I have ever watched about language learning!
Very interesting video, a lot of good points. It seems like you're underestimating how much effort goes into children learning their native language, there are a lot of interactive and artificial processes that happen aside from them just listening to the language, think about how much time we spend studying our native language at school, learning to read and write and practicing reading harder and harder books and doing reading comprehension tests and writing tests and so on. We don't just magically get awesome at English and a lot of people suck at English. Adults talk to children in specific ways, we read them children's books and play them children's songs and get them to play games with block letters and all kinds of stuff, slowly, slowly building up children's language abilities through many different methods all the way until they reach adulthood, theres a lot.
What a fantastic and interesting video. Brilliant preparation. Keep going. You are brilliant!!!!!!
After watching this video, I felt the same afterglow as after reading a masterpiece literature.
I also have been learning English with cognitive science knowledge for years. I found your way of learning quite similar to mine, and I'm very happy with it.
素晴らしい動画でした！Thanks for making this amazing video!
“If you’re listening to this I suppose you’re fluent in English”
Ahahaha *crying*
The only thing you’ve guessed wrong in this video😂
Ptera half of my comment is a joke, while the other half is not: I understand a lot and can read/listen to a wide variety of native resources still my speaking/writing ability is lacking: I can express myself, but I can’t do it without mistakes. Native level is very-very-veeeeeeery far from where I am at now)
Al in all, I was just mostly joking 🙃
(Sorry it’s other account)
@@ЕваЧибизова native and fluent are not the same thing
I suppose he meant fluent in understanding but not necessarily in speaking, which is also the current level of my English at the moment
Great video regardless of what you learned afterwards, it was nice to hear your thoughts, experiences, own research and ideas shared. really appreciate the time into videos such as this one, keep on doing your thing Matt
Mattさん. Excellent information. One of the best and most instructive video seen so far. Probably (there is nothing i have seen written about it) one way to overcome the “Ok Plateau” is to use your second learned language to go for a third one! For sure in the process will find lot of hole that need to be fill. うわー！いい情報ですね。ありがとうございました。🙇♂️。母語はスペイン語です。
Yes, Matt, so agree. I learned understanding Cantonese by watching Cantonese RUclips Video without even practice speaking, for langugage learning , that works. Now I am starting learning my Hebrew now.
You make so much sense ... I love it.
This is an absolute goldmine
I'm constantly blown away by how interesting and useful your videos are. I'm going to consciously immerse myself in Japanese as soon as I've finished watching all your videos....maybe
Congratulations on the video - couldn't agree more that active immersion and deliberate practice are essential, particularly if you want to attain an advanced level.
I've heard that humans also subconsciously try to mimic what they hear, which is why we are able to hum tunes even if we don't know the notes and precise rhythm they use. I think this relates to this.
And just to say - you are talented. I love the way you express yourself, you have a great way to deliver information.
Came from Kaufman, subbing for Matt. Excellent video wow. Thank you for this~!
Matt pls don't stop doing this video.It's so usefull .
Hey, amazing video!
About the OK plato and how children get to a native level in their first language, I would like to say this:
For them, everything is new and everything is a challenge, because they're knowing the world and experiencing life events for the first time, and these are all new chances to fail.
Language isn't only a way to comunicate, but to abstract the reality too.. If we don't have a word for something, it doesn't exist at all.
So, I don't think they haven't a OK plato, but instead, they keep doing deliberate practicing just by trying to understand the world around them.
Extremely useful and educational, and easy to understand. This is logical evidence that conscious intention is paramount. I've definitely noticed when I only passive listen I go almost nowhere, and when I laser focus I learn a lot. From the laser focus, my mind knows it's important and is activated to work on passive input.
From this video, I just learned how to get to the next level in Japanese and many other skills through deliberate practice. I always knew failing was learning, this just provides more evidence.
I was going to comment on your thought of infants being able to pick up language when left alone by just listening but I see you have updated your opinion in your comments.
I would like to add however that if you apply your theory of intentional learning, that infants also do this through context and goals.
For example: A mother says "pick up the ball" and points to a ball.
The baby cannot give the literal translation of the phrase but through context and a goal of picking up its favorite ball.
Now the desire to understand this phrase to get this reward next time is brought from the subconscious to the concious part of the brain through active practice.
Ie the you buy a red car you see red cars example.
I would love to create this exact scenario in a vr game of learning languages.
Where you are literally this kid growing up in your target languages country.
Love the video. Subd.
Much love Matt! I have no doubt I will be 100% fluent in Jp now
11:00 so true now that i think of that, I cant remember how english sounded when it was all giberish. I remember not understanding anything but I cant remember what it actually sounded like. For example if I go watch something in indian it will sound giberish but I cant remember english sounding like that to me. I know it did but idk how it was, thats very interesting, also this is one reason why I love your videos, it's because you make me realize "obvious" things that are not so obvious and I have learnt a lot with you. With this said i think i ve watched 90% of your videos and I love every single one of them. If you somehow see this comment please read my comment at your 3 hour video, I got a lot to say there.
Thank you very much! It was incredibly interesting and useful. I cannot tell enough thank you. I hope you're doing well
please never delete this video
Interesting study since you always reference the free throws: The Effects of Mental Imagery on Free Throw
Performance
Man, this is now a passion of mine
This whole output input thing
If you doubting what Matt is saying here, you either on drugs or you need to be
If you need any proof, go to a friend that speaks a broken second language, tell him/her to curse, say a swear word/phrase....i bet you he/she will enunciate it perfectly
Every language learner, no matter their level, pays extra careful attention in swearing... Whether jokingly or for self defense (it's fun to swear right? We can be immature, we're only humans)
Whereas if you ask the same friend to say something like "my name is" or "the weather is great"...they won't get the perfect pronunciation
Matt, the work you have done so far and what you are doing, it is so impressive, inspiring, thank you for sharing your knowledge, passion, discoveries to the world. One of the deepest and sincerest channels I have encountered on youtube so far
very good content- great video but will need to listen again as lots of good points. thankyou for all the reading info , I must get a hold of some of the books you mentioned
This is such a thoughtful piece. Thanks Matt so clear and so clever
This is an awesome video, Matt
This video was a treat! Well structured, easy to follow. You seem to really like this topic :)
Great video! Listened to it aptly from start to finish. I’ve been applying a lot of your ideas to learning Spanish and it’s really helped. I deemphasized iTalki lessons and bumped up my input dramatically-lots of reading and lots of listening (both passive and active) and my comprehension is markedly improving.
I'm learning English watching videos about "how to learn a new language" haha, I could understand 60%
how's your english now?
Yea, how's your english now
Answer the question
What they said
I do the same 😅. I understand almost everything but with subtittles, without them I can't
Never been so excited to see a new video from a RUclipsr before. Love your channel and everything you do man!
This is the most valuable video I've ever watched
I love the way you explaining it. Can’t agree more
Epic explanation. Thanks. That's the second time on this channel that I have the feeling to have found gold (first time was the meditation video). And simultaneously I figured out how to decrypt the subtitle data on DaiWeeb into processable JSON, yay. Today is a good day.
Very impressive analysis of the learning process. I don’t know how correct it is but it is certainly impressive thinking.
Thanks so much for this video. Really helps me reframe my l2 learning
Definitely psych yourself up for language learning, never beat yourself up, and celebrate every small victory, when you are really good you will celebrate even small mistakes because you will see how valuable they are in helping your discernment.
日本語は書かれた文章と話されてる言葉もありますね。CadenceとRhythmを勉強しなきゃはいけないが、おしゃった通り日本語はぞれぞれの練習が必要です。ピッチとイトーネーションが歌のように美しい日本語を話す人もいますね。歌のように聞こえるように頑張ろう！
1:15:56
deliberate practice works by consciously engaging a SUBcounscicous pattern recognition
Thank you so much for this video, very educational and interesting. Greetings from Brazil. 💓🇧🇷
I find it interesting how the optimal way to learn something specific like the chick sex recognition example is exactly supervise learning with neural networks. Basically, having an oracle telling the right answer would be what we call knowledge distillation from a teacher network to a student network.
brilliant! especially with the time stamps
Good listen even as a Mandarin learner
Honestly just the intro bit about consciousness is kind of blowing my mind
Full of great insights.
Dude! I've just realized the language I've been learning for several years now (on and off) has pitch accent too :) I'm actually happy about it because before I didn't have a way of 'quantifying' how shitty my pronunciation in Norwegian was :) I'm gonna start working on it ASAP. Thanks!
amazing video! tribute and love from china❤️
This video changed my life.